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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Lebanon Agrees to Send 15,000 Peacekeepers to Border; Israel Warns of Wider Ground Conflict in Southern Lebanon; Tyre: City Under Siege
Aired August 07, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, Israel is intensifying its air assault against Hezbollah positions in southern Beirut, and Israel is warning of wider ground war in southern Lebanon as the diplomatic efforts to end the fighting drag on at the United Nations.
Hezbollah today fired 140 rockets into northern Israel a day after Israel's deadliest day in this conflict, and the Israeli military is suffering new casualties in fierce ground fighting with Hezbollah.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Monday, August 7th.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, the war between Israel and Hezbollah is intensifying. Israeli warplanes are launching punishing new airstrikes against southern Beirut. At least 10 Lebanese civilians have been killed. Dozens more have been injured in the new attacks.
Lebanon tonight agreeing to send some 15,000 peacekeeping troops to southern Lebanon when and if a cease-fire agreement is put in place, but efforts to secure a cease-fire are failing so far. And Israel says Hezbollah is far from being defeated tonight.
Brent Sadler reports from Beirut on Israel's deadly new airstrikes tonight.
Matthew Chance reports from northern Israel on the Israeli military's widening ground offensive in Lebanon.
And Suzanne Malveaux reports from Crawford, Texas, on the president's new call for a cease-fire in this conflict.
We turn first to Brent Sadler, reporting tonight from Beirut -- Brent.
BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: Lou, it's been a day of intense fighting, heavy Israeli airstrikes, and knife-edged diplomacy, but diplomacy that might make or break the international efforts to stop the war. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER (voice over): First light in Beirut, and Israel strikes at the southern suburbs. Last light, more bombs fall in the area, but hitting a new neighborhood that was thought to be relatively safe.
Residents used bare hands to rescue survivors, recover the dead. Joint condemnation and outrage from the Arab world.
Visiting foreign ministers offer support and sympathy. They hear impassioned comments from Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. "We do not want the Lebanese state and its people to remain the punch bag of Israel," he says, "or anyone else."
Siniora appeals to Arab capitals for urgent help at the United Nations to push for a peace deal Lebanon could accept, free from Israeli troops in the south. Choking back tears, Siniora says Lebanon's arguments are based on the nation's sorrows of the widows, their children, the wounded, and the homeless.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a historic turning point that we're at right now. Israel has overplayed its hand militarily, has met its match, to a certain extent, and must turn to the diplomatic and the political options.
SADLER: But many Lebanese are not so sure. They must not wait hours for dwindling supplies of rationed gas. Frustration boils into anger at one filling station.
(on camera): Israel's rigorously enforced land and sea blockade is really starting to bite here at street level. The squeeze on essential fuel supplies has already reached danger levels, with little hope of an early end to the siege.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not going to stop.
SADLER: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't believe the U.N. We don't believe all the Arab world. We don't believe anyone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm afraid from an American plan to rebuild a Middle East which would be obedient to America, and in such a plan, Israel would be the arms, hands of America in the Mideast.
SADLER (voice over): Many Lebanese fearful that despite 11th- hour diplomacy, they may have to face more war than peace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER: Lebanon's southern port city of Tyre is now cut off by a road, stranding countless Lebanese, blocking humanitarian aid. Time for diplomacy to succeed may soon run out -- Lou.
DOBBS: Brent Sadler reporting from Beirut. Three Israeli soldiers died in fierce ground combat with Hezbollah today in southern Lebanon. The Israeli military says it's been given a green light from the Israeli government to continue its offensive and expand the war if necessary.
Matthew Chance reports from northern Israel.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the Israeli government making clear it wants a diplomatic solution to this standoff, this crisis, this conflict in south Lebanon, but it's also making it clear there is another track which is possible as well, a military track. Defense officials saying they've ordered their armed forces to prepare for a wider intervention in Lebanon.
They've already got 10,000 to 12,000 Israeli forces on the ground. They're battling, as you say, Hezbollah militants.
It's proving a very tough foe to fight, with Israeli soldiers encountering a very stiff resistance from those places where Hezbollah's strongholds are located. Even places that the Israelis say they've managed to control in the past now seem to be infiltrated again with Hezbollah fighters. For instance, the town of Bint Jbeil, where another three Israeli soldiers were killed throughout the course of the day.
Also, Hezbollah continuing to fire its rockets into northern Israel, towns and cities there as well. More than 160 rockets landing in it over the course of this day.
No matter how hard Israel seems to hit Hezbollah strongholds, their ability to strike remains intact, and I think that says a lot about the extent or the success of the military operation so far. As Israel wants to expand that military operation, it will face a very tough guerrilla army if it attempts to do that -- Wolf -- Lou.
DOBBS: Matthew, thank you very much.
Matthew Chance reporting from northern -- northern Israel.
Israel tonight is intensifying its air and ground assault on southern Lebanon. The Israeli military is warning residents to stay off all roads at night and remain inside their homes. In the southern Lebanese port city of Tyre tonight, residents are bracing for what they fear will be a major Israeli ground assault.
Karl Penhaul has the report from Tyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Smoke rises as Israeli warplanes and artillery guns pound suspected Hezbollah positions south of Tyre. Airplane gun camera video released by the Israeli military shows explosions hitting targets. But that's not enough to stop Hezbollah firing more Katyusha rockets off to Israel.
Humanitarian aide workers say they fear a two-day Israeli bombardment six miles or 10 kilometers south of Tyre may be the prelude to a ground attack on the port city.
(on camera): A Lebanese military intelligence officer has told me that Israeli ground troops did reach the outskirts of a Lebanese village on high ground just south of here, but he says they were repelled by Hezbollah fighters.
(voice over): And to the north, bridges along the highway to Beirut have been bombed, destroying the only route in for humanitarian supplies.
ROLAND HUGUENIN, RED CROSS: The roads from Tyre to Saidar (ph) has been damaged by bombing last night. So Tyre is beginning to look like a city under siege.
PENHAUL: No way out either for aide workers to help the thousands of civilians thought to be stranded in outlying villages.
HUGUENIN: And now for two or three days we are just getting red lights on our security clearances. We aren't able to move out of Tyre.
PENHAUL: In the Old Quarter, the Doctors Without Borders aid group is preparing in case there is an all-out attack on central Tyre. "What we fear over the next few days is that Tyre is a high-stake target and this could be the theater of a larger military operation," he says.
The deck (ph) and his team are rushing to refit this operating theater in Bashur (ph) hospital. It has not been used for the last year.
He says a potential Israeli assault could split Tyre in two, cutting off this hospital in the west of the city from three others in the east. "We're preparing for the worst in the event the fighting spreads into downtown Tyre, so we can tend to the wounded from street battles," he says.
In one in one of the narrow alleys nearby, fisherman Abdul Hussein Nashraf (ph) mends his net. He, too, believes Israeli troops may be getting ready to occupy the city. "If the Israelis come to these streets I will fight with Hezbollah. I will give my life and blood for Hezbollah," he says. By late Monday there was still no sign of a lull in the Israeli shelling, but no sign either of Israeli ground troops at Tyre's gates.
Karl Penhaul, CNN, Tyre, south Lebanon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: President Bush says the cease-fire proposal under consideration at the United Nations tonight offers the best hope for bringing peace to Lebanon, but neither Israel nor Lebanon is ready to support the cease-fire plan.
Suzanne Malveaux is with the president in Crawford, Texas -- Suzanne. SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it really was a rare sight to see President Bush in a suit and tie holding a formal news conference at his Crawford ranch during the vacation, but, of course, it all meant to show a sense of urgency and seriousness in resolving the Middle East conflict. President Bush outlining the U.S. plan to U.N. Security Council resolutions.
The first draft resolution calls for an end to hostilities, not a cease-fire, which has a legal term, a legal meaning, but an end to hostilities which allows Israel to launch strikes in self-defense.
Now, the second resolution that would follow, they are still working on the language, of course, which would set up some sort of political situation to allow for a sustainable cease-fire and also the formation of a multinational force go in along the border. Now, already, Lou, a lot of objections from Hezbollah, from the Lebanese government, and from key Arab allies who point to two things.
First, they want an immediate cease-fire. Secondly, they want Israeli troops to immediately leave Lebanese territory.
Well, I asked President Bush if either one of those points was negotiable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Whatever happens in the U.N., we must not create a vacuum into which Hezbollah and its sponsors are able to move more weapons. Sometimes the world likes to take the easy route in order to solve a problem.
Our view is it's time to address the root causes of problems. And to create a vacuum, Suzanne, is unacceptable. It would mean that we haven't addressed the root cause.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: So, Lou, the big concern, U.S. officials say that if those Israeli troops withdraw before a multinational force goes in, that Hezbollah will be able to rearm, to regain strength. That is not what they want, but Hezbollah says they're not willing to put down their arms or stop firing if those Israeli troops don't get out immediately.
There is some late development. The Lebanese government offering alternative language to that U.N. Security Council resolution, saying perhaps what we can do is have -- while the Israelis pull out, at the same time the Lebanese army will come in, deploy some 15,000 or so. It is still unclear, Lou, whether or not that language will be acceptable ultimately to the U.N. Security Council and, more importantly, to the Lebanese and Israelis -- Lou.
DOBBS: And certainly, there remains the open question as to whether or not it is sufficient. A cease-fire in place, a withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon, but critically important would be the disarmament of Hezbollah. Is that not an insistent condition on the part of this administration?
MALVEAUX: Well, absolutely. And what they're trying to do here is basically see some sort of decline in the violence in the first phase. And then the second phase, deal with that much more significant and controversial element, and that is ultimately disarming Hezbollah.
DOBBS: Suzanne Malveaux with the president in Crawford, Texas.
Thank you, Suzanne.
Still ahead here, we'll be live in Connecticut as new polls show Senator Joe Lieberman gaining in his primary showdown. That tomorrow.
President Bush saying tonight he's kept his promise to strengthen our nation's borders. Has he? The president says it's time for Congress as a result to pass so-called comprehensive immigration reform. I'll be telling you my thoughts on the president's address and offering the president some modest counsel next.
And we'll be live in Beirut, southern Lebanon, for the latest on the widening Mideast conflict.
And the Arab League ambassador to the United Nations joins us.
Stay with us for that and a great deal more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Israel tonight is warning that its campaign against Hezbollah may intensify. Lebanon is saying it will send 15,000 troops to southern Lebanon as a peacekeeping effort, but only if Israel were to withdraw.
In Beirut, the latest airstrikes by Israel have left at least 10 Lebanese dead. That, as diplomatic efforts to end the fighting appear stalled.
Three more American troops were killed in a roadside bomb attack southwest of Baghdad today. In all, 2,590 of our troops have now been killed in Iraq, 19,270 of our troops wounded, 8,789 of them seriously wounded.
In Baghdad, a car bomb wounded seven people, including three Iraqi police officers. A separate bombing outside a barbershop killed one person and wounded three.
The public's growing opposition to the war in Iraq is being played out tonight in Connecticut on the eve of the Democratic primary in that state. Three-term incumbent senator Joe Lieberman is now trailing in the polls to political novice and challenger Ned Lamont. The reason for Lieberman's weak standing in the polls, according to voter surveys, his support for the war in Iraq.
Candy Crowley is in East Hartford, Connecticut, and has the very latest for us -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, just to give you an idea of the depth of problems that Senator Lieberman has, when they heard that they were six points behind their opponent Ned Lamont, they were pleased, because it is, of course, an improvement over late last week. In the same poll, he was double digits behind. But he is running out of time at this point, so there was last-minute campaigning, diners telling voters that they need to stay with who they know.
Senator Lieberman has had a heck of a time getting his message through, which is most of the time, 90 percent of the time, "I am fighting for Democrats. I'm a good Democrat." He has had to redefine himself, because Ned Lamont, who has been fueled by the liberal blogosphere, who has his own money and sunk about $4 million of it into this campaign, has really latched on to antiwar fever here in Connecticut.
Last night, Senator Lieberman made what he called his closing arguments. He talked about the war, took it head on, said to those voters that they believe have long supported Lieberman but are now so angry about the war, they're going to vote for Lamont, he reached out to those voters and said, "Listen, I understand, I hear you, but you need to know that I am not George Bush," listed all the things that he opposed that George Bush did and said, "And I'm misunderstood when people say that I criticized those who criticized the war because I didn't. I simply said we couldn't use it for political purposes."
But there is no doubt about this, that the Lieberman campaign knows that it's in serious trouble. So much so, of course, that Senator Lieberman has said if he loses this primary, he will run as an Independent in November, where polls show that he's currently leading. But what they'd much rather do is win this primary tomorrow night. They say, look, we have the momentum, but certainly they don't have much time -- Lou.
DOBBS: There will be reverberations throughout the Democratic Party, will there not?
CROWLEY: Absolutely. They are watching this very closely, because it's not a big surprise that the bulk of Democrats are now anti-war.
What is interesting is that a lot of people are couching this as a struggle, an inner party struggle. And that is, the liberals trying to move the party left of center.
Joe Lieberman, as you know, is a centrist Democrat. So a lot of people are looking at this in the broader picture of where the Democratic Party is going in 2006, but maybe more importantly, 2008.
DOBBS: Candy, thank you very much.
Candy Crowley.
In Ohio, Republican Congressman Bob Ney today said he will not seek reelection this November. Ney is now under federal investigation for his involvement with convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff, although he has denied any wrongdoing.
Ney is the second lawmaker with suspected ties to Abramoff to step down from Congress. Earlier this year, former House majority leader Tom DeLay resigned after becoming embroiled in the scandal.
Up next here, Cuba, China and Washington's double standard. We talk tough with communist Cuba, we purr when it comes to communist China. We'll take a look at who's profiting from this double standard. And it is not our middle class.
We'll have a special report.
And President Bush claims he's fulfilled his promise to put 6,000 National Guardsmen on the U.S.-Mexican board. We'll have a special report and I'll have a few observations about presidential statements and accountability.
Also tonight, Lebanon agrees to send 15,000 troops to southern Lebanon if Israel withdraws. What will happen next? I'll be talking with the Arab League ambassador. I'll also be talking with noted Middle East authority Stephen Cohen.
Stay with us for all of that and more coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Cuba has been isolated by the United States for decades. Our government and administration after administration, Republican and Democrat, determined not to allow communism to spread. However, half a world away a much larger communist regime is strengthening with the help and guidance of this administration and corporate supremacists who are benefiting mightily.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Two communist regimes, two vastly different American policies.
To the 11 million living under communist rule in Cuba...
RICE: We will stand with you to secure your rights, to speak as you choose, to think as you please, to worship as you wish, and to choose your leaders freely and fairly in democratic elections.
ROMANS: No such appeal for freedom for the 1.3 billion living under communism in China. Isolation for Castro, but engagement with China.
JAIME SUCHLIKI, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI: We are more forceful in Latin America because that has been the policy of the United States since the Jimmy Carter era. We have a strategic and economic interest in China that are not comparable to the interests in Cuba. ROMANS: For many reasons, the U.S. can afford to be idealistic with Cuba. Compared with China, its population and military are minuscule.
The biggest difference...
FRED BERGSTEN, INST. FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: The opportunities for economic exchange with China have simply been too big to forego.
ROMANS: American companies and American policy so addicted to China's cheap markets, the U.S. trade deficit now tops $200 billion with the communist regime.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Now, the theory goes that engaging China helps shape its rise, but so far the billions of American dollars in its coffers have strengthened authoritarian rule and stamped out freedoms for many citizens there. This, even as the stated goal of U.S. foreign policy is to spread freedom and democracy first -- Lou.
DOBBS: Indeed. And good to have you back, Christine Romans.
ROMANS: Thanks.
DOBBS: Tonight, we want to give you some facts about the shutdown of the country's largest oil field in Alaska.
Contrary to what you may have read or heard today, it is not British-owned BP's oil field. BP operates the Prudhoe Bay oil field for a consortium of companies, including ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips and Chevron. ExxonMobil, by the way, is the largest individual owner, not BP, although it is an owner.
Four hundred thousands barrels of oil are produced each and every day in Prudhoe Bay, and for once we can tell you your federal government did something important and, more importantly, correctly. After last March's 200,000-gallon oil spill in the same area, the Department of Transportation required BP to begin conducting rigorous tests on the pipelines. Those tests revealed these problems.
In several locations, more than 70 percent of the pipeline walls have been corroded. Crude oil prices today, as a result, spiked more than $2 on the news, closing near $77, just five cents short of the all-time high price.
The strong market reaction comes despite the loss of what amounts to just one-half of 1 percent of global production. And as far as we can tell, BP hasn't yet paid a dime in fines for the oil spill in March, and that means tonight companies like BP, well, you guessed it, they're making more money than ever.
Looking at some of your thoughts now.
Dave in Florida, "Hey, Lou, has it occurred to anyone that we've given communist China everything it needed to become the other super power? Truman said many years ago, 'Watch out for the sleeping giant,' and yet we give them our money and our jobs."
Janet and Paul in Las Vegas wrote in about our reporting on empty shipping containers being used to house Americans. Those shipping containers being shipped here full of cheap goods from communist China.
"Hey, Lou, here's a great solution. Take all those empty shipping containers from China and stack them up to make the much- needed wall between the United States and Mexico."
Tracey in Michigan, "This illegal alien situation is causing my blood pressure to rise. Is this America or a colony of Mexico? I feel like I'm living in a nonstop 'Twilight Zone' episode."
And Ray in Virginia, "Lou, why do you need a picture I.D. to buy beer or cigarettes, but it is discriminating against the poor and minorities to ask for a picture I.D. to vote?"
Something for everyone to ponder.
Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts coming up here later.
Tonight, ever-intensifying combat in the Middle East. Hezbollah today firing an estimated 160 rockets into northern Israel.
We'll have live reports for you from Beirut and from the Israeli- Lebanese border.
And the Israeli military suffering more casualties as this fight threatens to widen.
Today the Arab League rejected a draft of a cease-fire proposal. I'll be talking with the Arab League's ambassador to the United Nations about what will and will not work.
And President Bush says he's made good on his promise to put 6,000 National Guardsmen on the U.S.-Mexican border. Really?
We'll have a special report. And I'll have a little unsolicited advice for the White House.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Israel tonight has launched a fierce new air assault against southern Lebanon, and at least 10 Lebanese civilians have been reported killed in the new attacks.
Hezbollah today firing more than 160 rockets into northern Israel.
And Lebanon tonight agreeing to send some 15,000 of its troops to southern Lebanon if a cease-fire were put in place and Israel were to withdraw. This has been a key Israeli demand, the withdrawal, with disarmament, of Hezbollah. Jim Clancy is live in Beirut. He has the latest for us on today's Israeli air assault. Matthew Chance live in northern Israel on the widening conflict between Israel and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. We begin with Jim Chancy in Beirut. Jim?
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, this was supposed to be a day of diplomacy in Beirut, to some extent it was. Most dramatically the Lebanese government saying it's willing to put 15,000 of its troops down along the border. But those events really overshadowed by an evening air strike Monday by the Israelis, an air strike that killed 10 and wounded 65 in a southern suburb.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY (voice-over): Civilians and rescue workers dug with their bare hands through the rubble, trying to save trapped survivors of the Israeli strike, one of more than a dozen that started before dawn. There was no heavy equipment to help the rescue effort. The Shia neighborhood was crowded at around 8:00 p.m. local time when the bombs hit. The neighborhood, with its mix of Muslims and Christian, had not been a target in the past. It was apparent some of the survivors were badly injured. It is believed only about 100 of the more than 700 killed in the conflict have been Hezbollah fighters. Israel insists Hezbollah uses civilians as shooting shields.
Already warn out from weeks of such strikes, Lebanese held out faint hope that a proposed U.N. cease-fire resolution would come to their rescue. Prime Minister Fouad Siniora appealed to the world for help on behalf of his battered nation.
I trust you to respond to my plea, said the prime minister, as he choked back tears. The sorrow and pain of the mothers who have lost their sons and the dead children and those who have been displaced and injured and all of the suffering that has put our country back decades. At an emergency meeting in Beirut the Arab league decided to send a delegation to New York, hoping to convince the U.S. and France to change the draft U.N. resolution and guarantee Israeli troops would pull back across the border.
To bolster their position the Lebanese cabinet voted to call up reservists and send 15,000 troops to the south to take control along with existing U.N. forces, but that hinges on a complete Israeli troop withdrawal.
MARWAN HAMADE, LEBANESE MIN. OF COMM.: It's a direct message to the United Nations and to the big powers stating that Lebanon is ready to deploy 15,000 troops south of the Litani River as soon as Israel or when Israel withdraws from the south.
CLANCY: That is a major question mark. The draft cease-fire would allow Israel to remain entrenched in its positions until a new U.N. peacekeeping force arrives.
(END VIDEOTAPE) CLANCY: As the Lebanese wait and watch to see what happens on the diplomatic front at the United Nations this week, some of those who have been displaced by the fighting picked up food parcels down in Sidon today. U.N. trucks were on the roadways. Private aid groups said they couldn't get through. Some areas were cut off and the reality is, Lou, that tonight nobody knows how long this is going to last or just how bad this is going to get. Back to you.
DOBBS: Jim, thank you very much. Jim Clancy reporting live from Beirut tonight.
For almost a month of fierce fighting with Hezbollah Israeli forces tonight admitting that Hezbollah is far from defeated. Tonight the Israeli military is warning of a widening ground battle with Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. Matthew Chance is now in northern Israel along the border with Lebanon and has the latest for us. Matthew?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, thanks. As the diplomats at the United Nations try and broker some kind of cease- fire, Israel is warning that if diplomatic efforts fail, the military option is still very much on the table. Thousands of troops are already on the ground in southern Lebanon, battling in close quarters with Hezbollah fighters. Another three Israeli soldiers were killed today around the town of Bint Jbeil, which was meant to have already been taken by Israeli force some weeks ago, but it is clear that Hezbollah is fighting a guerrilla war and is proving a very tough enemy indeed.
Hezbollah has also been using a new weapon against Israel today, sending an unmanned drone across Israel, possibly loaded with explosives, according to Israeli defense officials. They could have dropped on an Israeli city, possibly as far as Tel Aviv. It was shot down though by the Israeli Air Force over the Mediterranean Sea and plunged into that water and it has not yet been recovered, but military officials believe it could represent some kind of threat to Israel.
It's the old weapons, though, that Hezbollah has been using for the past several weeks and opposing the most immediate and dangerous threat to the people of Israel, Katyusha rockets, a barrage of which has still been raining down, yet again, for another day on towns and cities across Israel's north. More than 160 hitting various places across this country's north. Lou?
DOBBS: Matthew, thank you very much. Matthew Chance reporting at this late hour from the Israeli/Lebanese border.
Tomorrow promises to be a pivotal day at the United Nations, perhaps a pivotal day for Lebanon and for Israel. The Security Council will hold an open meeting with Arab League delegates. Today the League's ambassador to the United Nations rejected the cease-fire proposal drafted by the United States and France. Yahya Mahmassani called the draft discriminatory in tone and the ambassador's our guest here tonight in New York. Ambassador, good to have you with us.
AMB. YAHYA MAHMASSANI, ARAB LEAGUE AMB. TO THE U.N.: Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: Why did you see it necessary to reject it because it's discriminatory in tone? What did you mean?
MAHMASSANI: We did not reject it in its totality. I had referred to certain items that were discriminatory and unacceptable. Let me start. First of all, their draft resolution does not say cease-fire. It says cessation of hostilities. Second of all, you know, the most important thing is occupation. This is the crux of the matter. Israel, according to this resolution, remains on the Lebanese territory. This is occupation. That's a good reason for Hezbollah to continue the fight. The second, the third thing, you know, when we talk about the exchange of prisoners, why is it that the prisoners of the Israelis, the two soldiers, have to be given up immediately, while the Lebanese prisoners, we'll think about it. We will talk about it later on. This is discriminatory.
DOBBS: Discriminatory for the life of me, I can't figure out the difference between a cease-fire and a cessation of hostilities, but the critical issues are the withdrawal of Israel from southern Lebanon, a cease-fire, a priori. But the disarmament of Hezbollah, that has to be an absolute requirement.
MAHMASSANI: The disarmament of Hezbollah, actually, has been going on and the national dialogue that is taking place between the Lebanese members of the National Conciliation Conference, which is taking place under the leadership of the speaker of the house and the parliament. Hezbollah is part of the parliament. It is an item on the agenda.
DOBBS: But if you insist, Mr. Ambassador because Hezbollah has three minister positions, is a small fraction of the government and that somehow is representative and conclusive as to the issue as to whether or not it is represented by the government of Lebanon, why is Israel then not entirely within its rights to move forward and destroy the government of Lebanon?
MAHMASSANI: The crux of the matter is not the armament of Hezbollah and this is something that can be discussed. --
DOBBS: Those that who are getting hit by those rockets might argue with you.
MAHMASSANI: The Lebanese have been destroyed. The infrastructure has been wiped out. Lebanon has been destroyed completely. There is nothing, after ten days, there is nothing to destroy. You know what the problem here, the problem here is Israel's presence on the Lebanese territory. This is what you're talking about.
DOBBS: As you and I discussed, Mr. Ambassador, we could go back 58, 60 years to discuss this in terms of which side has inflicted which damage at what point. Who in response and who is the aggressor and who is the initiator of the aggression or violence, but the president said and Condoleezza Rice, our secretary of state said, there has to be a lasting and sustainable peace. That cannot be achieved, it seems, without absolute Lebanese control of that area with U.N. assistance, without an absolute cease-fire, without the absolute support of 22 Arab states in the Arab League, which you represent to the United Nations, and without the absolute disarmament of Hezbollah and the end of its terrorist activities. Am I incorrect?
MAHMASSANI: Lou, you cannot talk about disarming Hezbollah while Israel is occupying Lebanese territory. You cannot ask Hezbollah to give up the arms --
DOBBS: I would exceed to your wish, but why in the world could it not be contemporaneous and concurrent?
MAHMASSANI: The whole question is the Lebanese government has taken an decision tonight to send 15,000 strong troops to the south, provided Israel leave, Israel withdrawal. There is no need for anyone to be in this area except the Lebanese army, plus the United Nations.
DOBBS: Is it your judgment with your delegation coming, representing Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and the Secretary General. Is it your judgment that tomorrow they can be effective and come to a resolution or be significantly influential in reaching a decision to come to a cease-fire?
MAHMASSANI: Yes, I think they are coming here to come and bring the selling points of the Lebanese government. Number one, cease- fire. Number two, withdrawal of the Israeli forces from Lebanon, that is sacrosanct. This is a must, so that there will be no more clash on the Lebanese territory. This campaign of killing and destruction has to stop and the only way to do it is ask Israel to withdraw from the Lebanese territory and then we can talk about all of the rest. I agree with President Bush that we need a final settlement, but that final settlement has to start with Israel's withdrawal from the Lebanese territory.
DOBBS: Would one of those seven points, Mr. Ambassador be, contemporaneously, concurrently and importantly, the disarmament of Hezbollah and the forswearing of support by any Arab state form?
MAHMASSANI: This is not one of the seven points. The seven points do not include the disarmament of Hezbollah simply because this disarmament on is on the agenda of the Lebanese government. We have been talking about this to the Hezbollah and they have agreed to accept.
DOBBS: So it as open...
MAHMASSANI: ... discussion. No, you cannot disarm Hezbollah by force. The only way to disarm Hezbollah is to take away the reason for arming them and one of them is the presence of Israeli forces on Lebanese soil. This is occupation.
DOBBS: Irrespective of the reason, Mr. Ambassador, irrespective of the political motivations and the interest, is it not time to disarm all terrorist organizations and end all support?
MAHMASSANI: Lebanon, they don't run terrorists. It is a group fighting in the country.
DOBBS: I know, and some call them militants.
MAHMASSANI: We discussed this before. We don't call it terrorists.
DOBBS: You and I will not agree on this.
MAHMASSANI: Israel -- you can call the bombing the way they have been savagely bombing the Lebanese infrastructure, killing 700 civilians, civilian, children. You have seen them on your own television. Isn't this terrorism also?
DOBBS: It is all terrible and what we see is a resolution and it won't happen as you and I both know on this television broadcast or any other, but we hope you have great success tomorrow.
MAHMASSANI: I hope so. I hope you can come to an arrangement tomorrow to stop the fighting.
DOBBS: Ambassador Mahmassani, we thank you for being with us.
MAHMASSANI: Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: Good luck.
MAHMASSANI: Thanks a lot.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, the president's new claim to be mission accomplished. An update on how many national guards troops are actually stationed on our border and I'll have a little advice for the president and the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah intensify. I'll be joined by one of the country's Middle Eastern experts, Stephen Cohen of the Israeli Policy Forum. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM," with Wolf Blitzer. Tonight he's back in Jerusalem. Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. Israel pounding Lebanon once again from the air and on the ground. Our John Roberts will take us to the front lines of the battle. He's been embedded with Israeli forces as they pushed into Lebanon.
Plus, fighting back tears, Lebanon's prime minister makes a powerful plea for peace while offering to send in thousands of Lebanese troops to try to stop the war. Also, Crawford diplomacy. President Bush presenting his plan for peace from his vacation ranch. And a city under siege. We are going to take you inside Tyre in southern Lebanon where they're cut off from aid and bracing for more attacks. All that, Lou, coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM" from Jerusalem.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Wolf, thank you very much. Hezbollah continues to fire its missiles into Israel. Yesterday's Israel's prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said things could have been even worse had Israel had waited two or three years to act.
For more on Israel's response, I am joined now by one of the country's best, respected authorities on the Middle East. Stephen Cohen, senior scholar of the Israeli Policy Forum, an American non- profit organization supporting peace efforts in the Middle East. He joins us tonight from San Francisco. Stephen, good to have you with us. You just, I hope, heard the ambassador...
STEPHEN COHEN, SENIOR SCHOLAR, ISRAELI POLICY FORUM: Yes, I did.
DOBBS: ... of the -- the Arab League ambassador. He sounded to me, if I can put it in one interpretation on it. He sounded to me genuinely hopeful that there might be some movement tomorrow. Did you hear the same thing?
COHEN: Yes. I think that the Arab position really has two voices, and one of the voices is a strong propaganda attack against Israel, a criticism of everything that Israel has done, emphasis on all of the damage done to Lebanon.
But the other side of it and that is coming especially from the prime minister of Lebanon is an attempt to evolve a position that will produce an agreement between Israel and Lebanon and Israel and Hezbollah by having Hezbollah withdraw from the southern Lebanon and having southern Lebanon become really under the sovereign control of the Lebanese government.
DOBBS: And to keep things as accurate as possible, I don't think Stephen Cohen as gifted as you are would suggest that Israel is not engaging in its own propaganda campaign.
COHEN: Oh, of course, of course.
DOBBS: And as we look at the necessary, the conditions that are critically necessary, the cease-fire, for it to work, there has to be withdrawal of Israeli troops from southern Lebanon. There has to be disarmament, do you not agree, of Hezbollah?
COHEN: Yes, but disarmament of Hezbollah will not precede this process of ending of fighting because what is happening is that there is...
DOBBS: ... As the ambassador made clear.
COHEN: Yes. The demand is first of all, that there be a resolution, which will follow the first one which supposedly will be voted on on Wednesday. The next resolution will determine the size and composition of an international force which will help the Lebanese government carry out its functions to make sure that Hezbollah is no longer able to act by sending missiles against Israel.
DOBBS: By sending missiles, you know, as one thinks back to President Bush and Secretary of State Rice, talking about sustainable peace, fundamental issues being resolved for a cease-fire would make sense. This doesn't sound like that at all.
COHEN: No. It is not, and I think that what we're getting is at best, what we're getting is a staged set -- a phased set of agreements. The first one being -- ending of the fighting. The second, being the establishment of an international force which would help the Lebanese government maintain its sovereignty or achieve its sovereignty in southern Lebanon.
And then the third phase maybe if there can be an agreement between the United States and the other members of the Security Council, which would begin to deal with the fundamental issues because at this point it is not the case that the United States is talking to either Syria or Iran or Hezbollah and as long as there is no such conversation, it is very hard to imagine how this is going to be resolved. A good example of that -- excuse me for continuing.
DOBBS: If I may ask you to do so within the 10 to 15 seconds and you wrap up, please.
COHEN: Yes. I just want to say that if you see the head of the Arab League yesterday talk about this whole resolution as if he was going trash it completely, but when it came to the prime minister of Lebanon, he knew that he needs an end to the fighting and cannot make unreasonable demands.
DOBBS: Stephen Cohen, we thank you very much for being with us, of the Israeli Policy Forum. Thank you.
COHEN: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: And hopefully we will have that cessation of hostilities, whether it be called a cease fire or not, and lives saved.
Still ahead here, why President Bush's claim to have 6,000 national guard troops on our border isn't the real story. I'll be sharing my thoughts and give the president a little unsolicited advice, if I may. Here next. Stay with us for that and a great deal more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush says he has kept his promise to the American people to secure our nation's border with Mexico by sending 6,000 troops to the border. In point of fact our southern border is as wide open as it has ever been. Casey Wian has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush followed his tour of the border last week with Saturday's radio address to the American people. He says he's fulfilled his promises on border security.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This week my administration met a key objective in our efforts to better secure our nation's border. In May I pledged to deploy up to 6,000 National Guard members to support the border patrol and we fulfilled that pledge by August 1st.
WIAN: What he didn't say is about half of those troops are either still in training or deployed far from the border. The border patrol says a slight drop in the number of illegal aliens apprehended along the southern border shows the National Guard's presence is helping, but there's evidence it's mostly shifting illegal alien traffic to other area. Apprehensions in Arizona are down about 9 percent this year, but they're up nearly 20 percent in California.
JIM GILCHRIST, MINUTEMAN PROJECT: I'm not interested in words, rhetoric, promises, intentions, I want results and I'm speaking for tens of millions of Americans.
WIAN: The president used his radio address to again push for so- called comprehensive immigration reform, which critics say amounts to amnesty for illegal aliens and should not happen until the border is secure.
GILCHRIST: I know that we can secure our boards. I am positive of it. Whether or not the president has the willpower or whether the Congress has the will to force him to do so, and this is the question.
WIAN: The president's border visit and radio address are similar in tone to his infamous mission accomplished publicity stunt more than three years ago. He landed on an aircraft carrier to declare major combat operation over in Iraq. On the carrier and on the border, he warned of hard work ahead.
BUSH: Rational and comprehensive immigration reform must begin with border security and we have more to do.
We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous.
WIAN: Nearly 2,500 American troops have died in Iraq since. About 600 people have died trying to cross our nation's southern border illegally during that time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Millions of others have made it across successfully and it's clear that border security is another mission that's far from accomplished, Lou?
DOBBS: Absolutely, Casey. Thank you very much. Casey Wian reporting from Los Angeles.
A few thoughts, if I may, for the White House. Well, Mr. President, there you go again. I don't know who's advising you, but it is time you fired them. To suggest, as you did this weekend in your radio address, that it's time to give you so-called comprehensive immigration reform, including a guest worker program and illegal alien amnesty, now because you have met a key object to better secure our nation's borders is not only an exaggeration, but as a friend of mine puts it, an over-exaggeration. You said you had fulfilled your pledge to deploy 6,000 national guardsman to support the border patrol. Mr. President, you told the nation on the 15th of May that you were sending 6,000 national guardsman to the border and if you have, we simply can't find them here and we've been looking, Mr. President. And now, the National Guard tell us they're not on the border, but somewhere in the southwest and many of them are simply in training.
And in your address you bragged that your deployment of the National Guard has already produced results, pointing out that, with the support of the National Guard, the border patrol has seized 17,000 pounds of illegal drugs and caught 2,500 illegal aliens since June 15th. Mr. President, did any of your advisers point out to you that the border patrol seized more than 1,300,000 pounds of illegal drugs and a million illegal aliens in the last fiscal year?
Please, Mr. President, as a former governor of Texas, let me beg you to resort to an old Texas saying, no brag, just facts. The facts aren't being kind to you, Mr. President and the bragging without the facts isn't good policy and it's sure not becoming.
Still ahead here, more of your e-mails including your continued frustration with both the president and the Congress. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now more of your thoughts.
Daniel in Florida wrote in to say, "I think the Senate pay should be directly related to the average pay of the middle class. If we go down, they go down, too."
And Sean in North Carolina, "Lou, while I appreciate your support of an increase in the minimum wage, isn't it about time we institute a maximum wage in this country? Corporate America must be getting hernias by now from hauling away all the loot. When is enough, enough?" Well not yet, apparently.
Jim in Pennsylvania, "do-nothing Congress, no, no, no, no. It's a do nothing right congress." I take your point.
Barry in Pennsylvania wrote in with a quote from the great Mark Twain. "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." I love Mark Twain.
Diane in Tennessee, "Lou, I am grateful for your reporting on the vacation Congress is about to take. It's important, keep it up because for the life of me I can't tell when they're working or when they're on vacation."
And Doreen in Washington, "how would Americans know if Bush was on vacation or not, flying Air Force One to Republican fund raisers is not working for the American taxpayer.
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose email is read here receives a copy of Senator Byron Dorgan's new book, "Take This Job and Ship It." You'll love free trade after you read his book. Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. For all of us thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer reporting from Jerusalem.
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