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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Battle of Baghdad Continues; U.S.: Iran's Nuclear Talks Offer 'Falls Short'; New Intel Report Raises Concerns About Iran; Video is Released of Kidnapped Journalists; James Sensenbrenner Interview; Rahm Emanuel Interview
Aired August 23, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a grim warning about the escalating sectarian violence in Iraq. The U.S. ambassador to Iraq says the Battle of Baghdad could determine the outcome of the entire war.
And the United States tells Iran it's offer to hold nuclear talks falls short. But China and Russia appear determined to block any attempt to impose sanctions against Iran.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Wednesday, August, 23rd.
Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
The U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, today admitted that Iraq faces a security crisis in Baghdad. He said the city's residents are subjected to unacceptable levels of fear and violence.
This warning comes as the United States prepares for a possible nuclear showdown with Iran. The State Department said Tehran's offer to negotiate falls short of the conditions set by the U.N. Security Council.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon on U.S. efforts to end the spiraling violence in Baghdad.
Aneesh Raman reports from Tehran on Iran's nuclear defiance.
And Andrea Koppel reports from Washington on disturbing concerns about U.S. intelligence on Iran.
We turn first to Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, there seems to be general agreement that, as Ambassador Khalilzad said, there are unacceptable levels of violence in Iraq. But what people don't agree on is whether it's getting better or worse.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): When it comes to what's been dubbed the "Battle of Baghdad," the Pentagon claims the new infusion of 12,000 additional forces, including several thousand U.S. troops, is turning the tide.
BRIG. GEN. MICHAEL BARBERO, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Over the last five weeks, the number of incidents of sectarian violence have dropped steadily. Over the last three weeks, the number of attacks on infrastructure have dropped.
MCINTYRE: But the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, writing in "The Wall Street Journal," cites a 10 percent jump last month in the already high number of violent incidents in Baghdad and notes of the 2,100 Iraqi deaths there in July, 77 percent were due to sectarian violence. A trend he calls especially troubling.
Still, in a radio interview this week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld continues to argue it's not a civil war, yet.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: In terms of could it go into a civil war? Of course, and that's a possibility. But the people who look at it contend that they're not in it and the government of Iraq says they're not in a civil war.
KEN POLLACK, BROOKINGS INST.: There is no question that Iraq is in a state of civil war. Right now, it's in a state of low level or maybe moderate level civil war, but the trend lines are very bad.
Ken Pollack is co-author of a lengthy opinion piece splashed over a full page of Sunday's "Washington Post" that argues, "... the only thing standing between Iraq and a descent into total devastation is 135,000 U.S. troops -- and even they are merely slowing the fall."
POLLACK: The problem for the United States is that so far we've not been willing to do what would be necessary to pull Iraq out of that downward spiral. And, in fact, it may be too late to even consider doing so.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon points out that 90 percent of the sectarian violence is within 30 miles of Baghdad and 82 percent of the violent acts are within the four provinces, four of Iraq's 18 provinces. But the question, is the U.S. and Iraqi forces -- are they winning the battle of Baghdad?
Today's general briefing at the Pentagon said he was cautiously optimistic, but, Kitty, he admitted it is simply too soon to tell.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Jamie.
Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.
Insurgents in Iraq have killed another one of our soldiers. The soldier was hit by small arms fire in Mosul, northern Iraq.
2,612 of our troops have been killed in Iraq, 19,609 troops have been wounded. And of those troops, 8,922 were seriously wounded.
The United States today declared that Iran's offer to begin talks on its nuclear program falls short. The State Department said Iran must suspend all its uranium enrichment and reprocessing, but Iran appears determined to defy the rest of the world and continue its nuclear activities.
Aneesh Raman reports from Tehran -- Aneesh.
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, good evening.
The fallout now comes tonight after Iran's official response and a better picture is emerging as to what Iran's strategy is amid this nuclear dispute. Iran has shown no indication it will suspend its nuclear program ahead of the U.N. deadline to do so by the end of the month. But in its response it called for a new formula to solve the crisis and new negotiations.
Why? That is resonating with countries on the U.N. Security Council like Russia and China. Countries that are open to have a new round of talks. Countries that could block any severe sanctions against Iran.
Keep in mind, the deadline set by the U.N. does not immediately bring about action against Iran. After it passes, the U.N. Security Council must then again debate what to do.
So Iran is clearly intent on not only pursuing this nuclear program, but as well trying to keep the world talking. The U.N., in turn, faces a critical decision, is it prepared to go ahead and issue action against Iran for not suspending its program? Or is it time for a new round of talks -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Aneesh Raman in Tehran.
A congressional report today said there are huge gaps in U.S. intelligence on Iran. The House Intelligence Committee reports said U.S. policymakers must have high quality intelligence to assess Iran's intentions.
Andrea Koppel reports from Washington -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, the 29- page report underscores yet again why the U.S. intelligence community views Iran as a serious threat after 9/11. Using open source materials, the committee concludes, despite Iran's claims to the contrary, and as the Bush administration has maintained for years, that Iran does have a secret nuclear weapons program and could have nuclear weapons as soon as the beginning or the middle of the next decade, that it probably has offensive chemical and biological weapons programs, as well as the largest inventory of ballistic missiles in the Middle East, missiles which can currently strike targets up to 1,200 miles away and which could eventually carry a nuclear payload.
The report also points to Iran's longstanding support of groups the U.S. considers terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas and says some Iranian assistance to Iraqi insurgents is cause for alarm. But among the committee's most alarming conclusions, just how much the U.S. intelligence community doesn't know about Tehran's activities, saying there are major gaps in information about its nuclear, biological and chemical programs.
Among their recommendations, to improve analysis by, for example, doing a better job of sharing information within the intelligence community, to enhance human intelligence capabilities, a big challenge since American officials have very little physical access to Iran. And finally, to increase the number of staff who speak Farsi fluently so they can translate intercepted communications and original documents.
Now, the House Intelligence Committee staff also put together a classified version of this report, Kitty, with additional materials for congressional review -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Andrea.
Andrea Koppel.
Well, terrorists who kidnapped two FOX News journalists today released a videotape of the two men. The terrorists demanded the release of Muslim prisoners in the United States. The State Department said the United States does not make concessions to terrorists.
Chris Lawrence reports from Jerusalem.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Held captive for 10 days, journalists Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig appeared on this videotape pleading for their freedom.
OLAF WIIG, KIDNAPPED JOURNALIST: If you could apply any political pressure to the local government here in Gaza and the West Bank.
LAWRENCE: Sitting on a floor mat with no militants in sight, FOX News reporter Steve Centanni said they're being treated well.
STEVE CENTANNI, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: We get lots of clean water, food every day, access to the bathroom, a shower, clean clothes.
LAWRENCE: Their families have made public pleas for their release.
ANITA MCNAUGHT, WIFE OF OLAF WIIG: I know the people of Gaza are good people and you will bring my husband home to me.
LAWRENCE: Photographer Olaf Wiig spoke directly to his family.
WIIG: Please don't worry. I'll do all the worrying for us.
LAWRENCE: Over the past two years, at least 26 foreigners have been kidnapped from Gaza, nine of them from the media. Hostages had usually been released within hours. A previously unknown militant group called the Holy Jihad Brigades claim responsibility for this kidnapping and demanded the U.S. release Muslim prisoners from its jails within the next three days.
CENTANNI: I ask you to do anything you can to try to help us get out of here.
LAWRENCE: The kidnappers made no specific statement about what they'll do if their terms are not met.
Chris Lawrence, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan will visit Israel and other Middle Eastern countries to discuss the fragile truce between Israel and Hezbollah. Annan will travel to the region soon after meeting with European leaders in Belgium. Europe is struggling to find enough troops for a peacekeeping force in Lebanon. Annan will make 10 stops in the Middle East, including Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, among other countries.
President Bush did not publicly discuss the Middle East or the war in Iraq today. Instead, President Bush focused on Hurricane Katrina and a survivor who traveled to Washington to meet the president.
Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hollywood couldn't have scripted it any better. An underdog named Rockey fights to meet with the president and gets a one-on-one in the Oval.
ROCKEY VACCARELLA, KATRINA SURVIVOR: You know, I wish you had another four years, man. If we had this president for another four years, I think we would be great.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're a good man, Rockey. Thank you all.
VACCARELLA: You are, too.
MALVEAUX: Rockey Vaccarella was a gift the White House couldn't refuse.
VACCARELLA: So, I'm going to be the ambassador for the Gulf Coast.
MALVEAUX: The New Orleans resident who lost everything in the storm and was traveling the country in a FEMA-like trailer was asking for Mr. Bush. Not to chastise him, but to give him a break.
VACCARELLA: I wanted to thank President Bush.
BUSH: I told him that I understand that there's people down there that still need help.
CROWD: We want help. We want help.
MALVEAUX: Devastated by images of a government slow to respond to the Katrina disaster, the White House has been trying to get ahead of the story marking the one-year anniversary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It cost the people their homes and their lives. I hope the politicians, whoever they did this, the Corps of Engineers, whoever is responsible, I hope that they can sleep at night.
MALVEAUX: Documentaries that have recently rolled out, like this one from Spike Lee, continue to criticize the administration for its inadequate response. A CNN poll released today reveals 56 percent of Americans still don't believe the federal government is doing enough to rebuild the Gulf Coast.
VACCARELLA: Pull that eye off there, chairman. Now grab it by the tail, then grab it and go like that and pull it right out.
MALVEAUX: So when Rockey parked his trailer on the national mall, offering to cook for the president, the White House sent its Katrina point man to partake in the Creole cuisine and then offered up the president.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: There's no question that political calculations went in to bringing this fellow in today. But I think that they want to get the message out in the next few days we really care about New Orleans and about all the people who have suffered.
MALVEAUX: Rockey's visit was certainly not the treatment the so- called peace mom, Cindy Sheehan got, when she camped outside the president's ranch last Summer, demanding a face-to-face with Mr. Bush. She was a sharp critic of the war in Iraq.
CINDY SHEEHAN, MOTHER OF IRAQ WAR VICTIM: Here's my ID. I would like to go see the president, please.
MALVEAUX: While the president refused to meet with her, her profile and entourage grew. The White House's approach then, some aides believe, back fired. But Rockey's visit now offered the president a much-needed boost.
VACCARELLA: It goes to show you that the little guy can get to the big guy when we need to. And President Bush is a president that's a people's president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And it turns out that Rockey is a registered Republican, that he even ran for local office unsuccessfully in St. Bernard Parish. But a White House spokeswoman said that they were not aware of his party affiliation before his visit here at the White House, but it was certainly no secret, Kitty, that he was a big Bush fan -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Suzanne Malveaux.
Well, still to come, the Bush administration insists its border security policies are working, but our borders are still wide open. We'll have a special report.
Plus, a leading critic of the Senate's amnesty bill for illegal aliens will join me. Congressman James Sensenbrenner is chairman of the powerful House Judiciary Committee.
And, is the United States winning the war against al Qaeda? We'll have the results of a new CNN opinion poll.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Homeland security officials tonight insist they're succeeding in securing our borders and fighting illegal immigration. But citizens across this country insist the illegal alien crisis is only getting worse.
Tonight, Lisa Sylvester reports on the administration's new mission accomplished claim on border security.
And Christine Romans reports on Americans' growing lack of confidence with the federal government on this issue.
We begin with Lisa Sylvester, reporting from Washington -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, the Department of Homeland Security is giving itself a nice big pat on the back for ending a policy called Catch and Release. This new get-tough attitude comes as the White House tries to convince Congress to pass so-called comprehensive immigration reform.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (voice over): Under the old rule, Border Patrol agents would simply release illegal alien border crossers who were from countries other than Mexico back on to U.S. streets. Today, Secretary Michael Chertoff declared the federal government had completely turned around that policy known as Catch and Release in less than a year.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I'm pleased to say not only did we meet that, but we exceeded that deadline. As of the last several weeks, we have essentially been at 100 percent catch and remove in our southern and northern border.
SYLVESTER: DHS also touted the addition of 4,000 new detention beds. Illegal alien removals are expected to surpass last year. And 900 new Border Patrol recruits are trained and ready for duty. But not to rain on Chertoff's parade, critics say the Department of Homeland Security is still a long way from solving the illegal immigration crisis.
MARK WYLAND, CALIFORNIA ASSEMBLYMAN: I think it's a good thing that they've done that, but the problem is that means that we'll catch a few more of the non-Mexican illegal immigrants, but we still have floods of illegal immigrants entering the country. And in order to make states like California work well, we need to control that.
SYLVESTER: As for catch and remove, Border Patrol agents are returning illegal aliens back to their home countries, but only those caught within 100 miles of the border.
BILL BUCHANAN, AMERICAN COUNCIL FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM: You still have the whole country. We're talking about 11 million illegal aliens, possibly 20 million, and maybe even by some measures 30 million.
SYLVESTER: Illegal aliens who make it to the interior are still, for the most part, scot-free.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And employers are still flouting immigration laws hiring illegal workers, and illegal aliens are still evading the U.S. judicial system. More than 66,000 illegal aliens placed in removal proceedings failed to show up for immigration courts the first half of this fiscal year. That is on track to surpass the number of absconders in 2003 and 2004 combined -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Lisa.
Lisa Sylvester.
Well, outrage is growing tonight over employers that hire illegal aliens. A farm labor employment firm tonight is suing two of its competitors and a California grower for conspiring to hire illegal alien workers.
California-based Global Horizons tonight says these firms sought an unfair competitive advantage by hiring illegal aliens. Global Horizons says it is struggling to stay in businesses as competitors hire illegal labor.
We'll have a full report on this developing story tomorrow.
Well, Americans fed up with this country's illegal alien crisis cannot understand Washington's refusal to enforce our immigration laws. They are now turning to their local officials for help. And local officials across the country are responding with new ordinances fighting illegal immigration.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Here in Hauppauge, Long Island, tempers flare.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is un-American, too, Legislator Terecappa (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have the contractors who have plowed the law. We have the contractors who have not done the right thing.
ROMANS: It's a scene playing out across the country as local governments take federal immigration enforcement into their own hands. From Long Island, to Costa Mesa, California, where local police will now ask suspects their legal status, to Palm Bay, Florida...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're not illegal immigrants. They are illegal aliens. We need Americans in the drywall industry. We need Americans building these new houses.
ROMANS: City leaders ultimately rejected an ordinance that would have punished employers who hire illegal aliens.
In Avon Park, Florida, a similar measure narrowly defeated. In Riverside, New Jersey, a law bans hiring or renting to illegal aliens. And in Farmers Branch, Texas, another tough measure under consideration.
It's a lot like the toughest ordinance yet in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, where starting next month, landlords will be fined $1,000 a day for knowingly renting to illegal aliens. Business permits would be denied and English the official language.
ANGELA KELLEY, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION FORUM: A lot are going to be challenged in the courts. Many are unconstitutional, because, fundamentally, the states and localities don't have the authority, don't have the jurisdiction, if you will, to be passing what are federal laws.
ROMANS: While no fan of the ordinances, Kelley says they show real frustration by local leaders and a federal failure on immigration.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Hazleton and Riverside have quickly drawn the fire of lawsuits. The ACLU telling us Hazleton is "our Alamo." Winning there would make all those other local ordinances elsewhere irrelevant -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Christine Romans.
Well, tonight, there is shocking new evidence that this nation's illegal immigration crisis continues to threaten our national security, no matter what Michael Chertoff says. A newspaper report tonight says a massive security breakdown has taken place inside a major U.S. citizenship and immigration processing center.
California's "Inland Valley Daily Bulletin" says 75 percent of the green card and visa applicants processed at the facility since 2002 were not properly screened for terrorist connections. Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff says he's not concerned by the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHERTOFF: I have spoken to Director Gonzales. I asked about it. And he tells me that, actually, recently I think the IG (ph) was used in operations in that center and found that the action would be in good shape. But I've asked him to come back to me and report to me on whether there are any issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.
Well, still ahead tonight, the masterminds of 9/11 are still at large almost five years after 9/11. We'll preview tonight's special CNN presentation, "In the Footsteps of bin Laden."
Congressman James Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, will be my guest. He says local police must have the power to enforce federal immigration law.
And I'll speak to the author of a new book being called the Democrats' very own contract with America. Congressman Rahm Emanuel will be here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Osama bin Laden has been the world's most wanted man for more than five years. Still, he eludes capture.
Immediately after 9/11, most Americans were confident that bin Laden would be brought to justice. But that is changing.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: First the bad news. Nearly three-quarters of Americans believe Osama bin Laden is planning a significant terrorist attack against the United States.
Now the good news. Only 30 percent of Americans believe bin Laden will succeed in launching the attack.
Apparently, people believe the al Qaeda organization has suffered considerable damage and the U.S. guard is up. But there are growing doubts that the U.S. will be able to capture or kill bin Laden.
In December 2001, a few months after 9/11, three-quarters of Americans believed the U.S. would get him. By 2004, two-thirds still felt that way. And now, 58 percent. Still a majority, but Americans have been losing confidence over the past five years in our ability to get the man President Bush once called "wanted dead or alive."
Republicans are still confident, but most Democrats are not.
Suppose the U.S. had not gone to war in Iraq? Would that have made it more likely that the U.S. would have gotten bin Laden by now? People are not sure, but almost half are of the opinion that the Iraq war has made it harder to get bin Laden, which is one reason why the public is increasingly doubtful that the war in Iraq is helping in the war on terror -- Kitty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time, "CNN PRESENTS" what may be the most comprehensive portrait ever assembled of the al Qaeda leader. "In the Footsteps of bin Laden," a special two-hour investigation with Christiane Amanpour.
Again, that's tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.
That brings us to tonight's poll.
Who do you believe is to blame for the fact that Osama bin Laden has not been captured, the Bush administration, Pakistan, the Clinton administration, all of the above, none of the above?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com and we'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.
Tonight, new developments surrounding JonBenet Ramsey murder suspect John Mark Karr. He was expected to arrive in Boulder, Colorado, today, but there's been a change in plans.
We'll have the latest.
And a bill granting amnesty for illegals could cost American taxpayers over $120 billion. I'll get reaction from the top House Republican congressman, James Sensenbrenner.
Also, congressional Democrats dream of regaining control of the House. I'll talk to Congressman Rahm Emanuel, who is leading their charge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: In a moment, Congressman James Sensenbrenner will join me to discuss the growing number of cities taking the illegal alien crisis into their own hands.
First, though, let's look at these headlines. John Mark Karr awaiting extradition to Colorado. The man who claims he killed JonBenet Ramsey yesterday agreed to be transferred from Los Angeles. Karr will be moved within the next ten days.
Dutch police today arrested 12 people who caused a disturbance on a Northwest Airlines flight bound for India. U.S. officials said the passengers aroused suspicion when they pulled out cell phones in plastic bags during the flight. The plane was diverted back to Amsterdam.
Wildfires continue to range in Washington State. Red flag warnings were posted today, indicating extreme fire danger. More than 15,000 acres have already been destroyed near Dayton in the southern part of the state.
Detroit police tonight have in custody a 32-year-old illegal alien from the Islamic republic of Mauritania. Police found license plates from different states in his car, several different driver's licenses. His car was filled with maps of the Midwest. Officials are checking to see if this unidentified illegal alien has links to terrorism.
And immigration officers have arrested more than 360 illegal aliens during a week-long sweep in Houston. Of these illegal alien, 30 are fugitive criminals, 89 are non-criminal fugitives, 17 are illegal aliens with criminal convictions and one of the illegal aliens had almost 600 pounds of Marijuana in his home.
The House and Senate take different approaches to fixing our broken borders. House members largely oppose broad amnesty for illegals. The Senate is more likely to support it. Well, this week the Congressional Budget Office said the leading Senate bill could cost taxpayers over $120 billion through the next decade. Representative James Sensenbrenner chairs the House Judiciary Committee. He joins us tonight from Manchester, New Hampshire. Thanks for being with us, sir.
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, CHMN. HOUSE JUDICIARY CMTE: Thanks, Kitty.
PILGRIM: What do you make of that number? It is astounding.
SENSENBRENNER: It is a staggering number. A lot of this cost comes from the fact that illegal immigrants are currently ineligible for most welfare benefits. Giving them amnesty makes them eligible for welfare benefits. And now we have seen the true cost of the Senate bill, giving amnesty to up to 12 million illegal immigrants in our country.
PILGRIM: Well, you think it could be even more, don't you?
SENSENBRENNER: It will be more because the estimate that the CBO released covers a ten-year period. Once the people become citizens in the 11th year, then they will be eligible for even more benefits. And the cost will keep on going up. Amnesty is not free, but even I am surprised at how high the cost of amnesty will be if the Senate bill is passed into law.
PILGRIM: Do you have an estimate on what the House bill might cost?
SENSENBRENNER: CBO scored the House bill at $1.9 billion. That was in two areas. One is building the 700 mile fence along that part of the southwest border where a fence can work. And the second is establishing the Social Security number verification system so that employers can see if people are using fake Social Security numbers in order to get a job. Remember, illegal immigrants can't get Social Security numbers.
PILGRIM: Well, on the dollars and cents equation, it just doesn't make sense to move anything but the House bill. One possible compromise, which bridges the Senate and House, comes from Congressman Mike Pence and Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. What do you think of that compromise?
SENSENBRENNER: That's amnesty-light because it becomes almost unlimited immigration to people from Mexico and Central America while it keeps strict quotas on legal immigration from the other countries in the world. I don't think that we should allow practically everybody who lives in Mexico and Central America an access to come into the United States. The average wage in the U.S. is five times higher than in Mexico. The market does work and guess where everybody's going to come?
PILGRIM: I'd like to ask you a fairly specialized question if you'll bear with me for a second. We've been reporting extensively on the case of Jose Compean and Ignacio Ramos who face up to 20 years in prison for pursuing and shooting a Mexican drug smuggler who was given immunity. What is Congress doing to protect our boarder security people who put their lives on the line every day in trying to protect this country?
SENSENBRENNER: The Judiciary Committee will be conducting an investigation into this issue, and while we cannot overturn a jury verdict, under the doctrine of separation of powers, we can change the laws and do oversight over the procedures that U.S. attorneys use in prosecuting cases of this nature. It seems to me, from what I know, is that the bad guy got immunity and the good guys, who were trying to do their job, appear to be going to jail. That shows how up-ended our criminal justice system is.
PILGRIM: It certainly seems so. There have been quite a few field hearings all through the summer on immigration throughout the country. What can we expect after Labor Day, sir?
SENSENBRENNER: After labor day, the House will look at the results of all of the field hearings, which I think have shown that the Senate bill is more than putting the nose of the camel under the tent. We not only have the whole camel under the tent, but probably a herd of camels there as well.
Border security has to come first. Enforcing employer sanctions has to come next. And unless we do those two things, any type of immigration reform isn't going to work because it's always cheaper to hire an illegal immigrant than to hire a citizen or a legal immigrant with work authorization.
PILGRIM: All right. We look forward to the Fall and some movement possibly on this issue.
SENSENBRENNER: Hopefully.
PILGRIM: Thanks for being with us this evening. Congressman James Sensenbrenner.
Well tourists tonight are flocking to a bizarre attraction in Mexico. Tourists who pay $15 can pretend they're illegal aliens crossing the border into the United States. It's all taking place at night in a Mexican nature park 700 miles from the U.S. border. The tourists are urged to, quote, cross the border as an extreme sport. Organizers say they're trying to raise awareness of the plight of illegal aliens with this attraction.
Still ahead, Senator Joe Lieberman's very own declaration of independence. It happened today, and we'll have the story.
Plus I'll speak to the Congressman called the Democratic party's very own Newt Gingrich. Congressman Rahm Emanuel will be here to talk about his version of the Contract with America.
How will politicians respond to America's growing opposition to the war in Iraq? Three of the nation's most distinguished political analysts will join me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Senator Joe Lieberman today secured his spot on the November ballot as an independent. His campaign collected more than 18,000 signatures. Senator Lieberman lost the Democratic primary earlier this month to Ned Lamont, who criticized Lieberman for supporting the war in Iraq.
Congressman Rahm Emanuel is working tirelessly to help fellow Democrats take back the House this fall. Congressman Emanuel is the head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and he is the co-author of the new book, "The Plan: Big Ideas for America."
Now, it's being called the Democratic party's very own Contract with America. And Congressman Emmanuel joins me here tonight. Thanks for coming in in late August to talk about a very important thing. Let's start with a quote from your book, which I think is extremely compelling and we'll bring it right up.
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), CHMN. DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN CMTE: They are so stumped.
PILGRIM: All right, here it is. "We propose a new bargain between the people and their country, a social contract to equip Americans for the 21st century and unite us in higher national purpose." It sounds like a wonderful goal and probably one that everyone can embrace. What specifically do you mean by this?
EMANUEL: Well, first of all, the whole purpose of this book is to say that, look, the days of which we knew Ozzie and Harriet -- one of the chapters is called "Ozzie and Harriet Don't Live Here Anymore." One job, one mortgage, one pension is becoming undone by the pressures of a global economy.
What do we need to do to make sure that the middle class dream of raising a child, sending him to college, saving for your retirement, and having a job and the skills to succeed economically are still there? And the basic premise, one of the concepts behind the book, is that citizenship is not an entitlement program. It begins with responsibilities.
When John F. Kennedy asked people to join the Peace Corps, it was in service of our ideals. When Bill Clinton asked people to become part of Americorps, it was in the service of our ideals. And Americorps came together and accomplished its mission there.
And that whole concept of responsibility has to, once again, be reinstated into politics, and accountability from elected leaders to corporate leaders. And if you do that throughout our political system and our society, we can accomplish anything that we set as a goal and set to accomplish as a society, and most importantly, once again restore the American dream as something that's an opportunity for everybody to achieve rather than just a few.
PILGRIM: You know, the middle class -- and we've documented it night after night on this show -- has been losing out. We've been losing out in many ways, a decline in manufacturing industry, many things. What policy changes can we make to stop this irreversible, supposedly, trend?
EMANUEL: Wait, let's take this moment in time. This is the first economic period of recovery in which actually median incomes declined, yet college costs, healthcare costs and energy costs are all more than double. They're up 50 percent.
PILGRIM: Fixed prices.
EMANUEL: Fixed prices. I mean, just take energy. When George Bush got signed into office, $1.33 a gallon. It's over $3.00 today. Healthcare costs are rising $1,000 a year per family. So take the area of education. Today you earn what you learn.
How do we make sure that education is available to more Americans that can get it? There are five separate individual proposals on the tax code to help people pay for college. Consolidate them into one simplified $3,000 per child education deduction or credit on the code for graduate school, for community college, you want to go back to school, become a computer technician, it's available your whole life to you.
Second, Abraham Lincoln had the land grant colleges, one of the great periods of time for American, that helped the Industrial Revolution take off. Go back to a tuition grant program for the states, eliminate the subsidies for the financial service industry that guarantees the student loan.
Take that $15 billion to $18 billion of savings and give it as tuition assistant for the states to hand out for people who go to the universities or community colleges. Those are just two ideas that would make college -- what's the number one reason people drop out or don't go to school? Cost. It would break down the cost barrier so college is available. Second -- I have to stop there. PILGRIM: Oh, no. I'd like to you keep going. I do want to get into one of the big issues in the political arena this year, which is the border and do you have a solution for that?
EMANUEL: Yes, first of all, do something this Congress has never done, an up or down vote on the 9/11 Commission recommendations. Because that's the most important thing you can do.
And one of things that they talked about in the 9/11 Commission is enhancing our border, enforcing our workplace rules, making sure that security exists and we have a seamless enforcement from the border to the workplace. And that's what we would call for. Because the 9/11 commission recommendations have never even been voted on as a whole.
PILGRIM: Compelling ideas, a great read, very interesting stuff. And thanks for coming to talk about it, Rahm Emanuel.
EMANUEL: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Still, no end in sight to the carnage in Iraq. Another American soldier killed in Iraq. This, as the U.S. ambassador to Iraq warns the battle for Baghdad could determine the war's outcome.
And Iran again talking tough about the threat of U.N. sanctions. We'll discuss Iraq, Iran, domestic politics and more with three of the nation's top political experts.
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PILGRIM: In a moment, three of the sharpest political minds in the country. But first, a preview of THE SITUATION ROOM with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Kitty.
We're following several stories, including the nuclear reaction. Iran playing war games right now -- serious war games as it takes a look at the situation involving sanctions -- potential sanctions against Iran.
We're going to be speaking also this hour with Howard Dean. Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic Party. We'll talk about some of the issues facing Democrats in this election year.
Also, a terrorist plot. Was it a terrorist plot that occurred involving Osama bin Laden, Osama bin Laden as a young man?
And on a mission, Jesse Jackson once again heading to the Middle East. We'll try to see if he can help release some prisoners. All that coming up, Kitty, at the top of the hour.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Wolf.
Well, august has seen no break in global tensions fueled by the war on terror. And recent opinion polls suggest that Americans are paying very close attention. For some perspective, I'm joined now by our political panel, Ed Rollins, Republican strategist, former Reagan White House political director; Michael Goodwin, columnist, "New York Daily News"; and Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman. Thanks for being here.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be with you.
PILGRIM: Let's start with the remarks today by Zal Khalilzad, the ambassador to Iraq. And he said that the battle of Baghdad is the most important right now to winning the war. It seems to have been narrowed into the smallest possible geographical position. How do you think it's going?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, clearly, securing Baghdad's safety is critical to any hope of stability in the region, but the reality of the situation is that the war in Iraq has truly compromised our efforts to win the war on terrorism. And that's the critical issue here.
The war in Iraq has -- in fact, it's empowered Iran and we've seen them make such an incredibly emboldened moves in terms of nuclear weapons. We have see now North Korea quadrupled their nuclear stockpile. It has taken us away from focusing on Afghanistan where the Taliban, according to our own Defense Department, points out that they've increased their activities.
So clearly, the war in Iraq has been a tragic miscalculation, and it has clearly compromised our ability -- and very frankly, it is not just this president but the Republican Congress that has given him a blank check that truly has contributed to this.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, I mean, I agree with Robert to the extent that I think Baghdad is crucial. As both the Iraqi government has said, President Bush, Tony Blair, there's no question Baghdad is the whole game now, and time is running out. Maybe it's a five- or six-month window where stability has to be brought back.
But I think if it is brought back, let's assume it happens for a second, I think you'll see the dominoes kind of fall in the other direction. I think the strength that America has lost will be regained. I think you'll see a kind of shrinking of Iran. I think Iran is emboldened because of Hezbollah's standoff with Israel and because Iran is helping to upset all the security in Iraq.
So I think that it's a way of which way the wind is blowing. Right now the wind is blowing in our face. We've got to get Baghdad straightened out. That is the key right now to a lot of things.
PILGRIM: Narrowing the horizon. Do you think it will help?
ED ROLLINS, FORMER ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT REAGAN: There's two critical things that happened this week. One is the president basically said for the rest of my presidency we're here. They're going to start bringing more troops into it. The marines are bringing up 2,500 reserves already and I think the army is doing very similar numbers. So they've drawn a line. They said we're not getting out of there quickly, as he's said for the last year.
Equally as important I think the Democrats have made a determination with your prior guest, who is a very smart strategist, that they're going to try to nationalize this election on this war and go debate this war. The voters are going to get an opportunity to say up or down. They're very unhappy with this war. But I think the bottom line the Democrats take back the Congress, there will be lots of changes. If they don't take back the Congress, the president will have the ability to keep moving forward. Baghdad is the key.
ZIMMERMAN: The president will have the ability to protect the status quo. That's very different from moving forward. The reality is that Iraq has become a cornerstone for destabilizing the entire Middle Eastern region. So even if Baghdad is secure, it doesn't in any way guarantee that we're going to be able to keep Iran in check.
ROLLINS: One thing is guarantee. We pull out of Iraq, there's no stabilization.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's not on the table.
GOODWIN: But the notion that somehow that what we've done in Iraq has destabilized the Mideast I think is just wrong-headed. I thing that Iraq has not gone well, there's no question about that. But Iran would be Iran no matter what we were doing in Iraq. The two are moving, Hamas would be taking over in Palestine.
ZIMMERMAN: But look at how Iran has escalated its activities since we have faced such enormous difficulties in Iraq. Look at what has happened to us on the world stage since we have made one false prediction after another and proceeded by, even most conservative analysts, without a proper exit strategy or a proper strategy to secure the region.
PILGRIM: Let me just refer to a column today that Michael Goodwin wrote and we have a quote from it. It will launch the next discussion. Let's take a look at it, "It's familiar but tiring picture. The dangers of letting Iran go nuclear are obvious. But much of the world is happy to sit on its timid butt and let uncle Sam do the hard work.
All the better to criticize us later." And you know, it really raises the whole issue of putting forward the force for Lebanon, no one's stepping up, very few stepping up with the magnitude that they should. Is the United States doing the heavy lifting without any help at this point?
ROLLINS: As far as I'm concerned the United Nations is totally worthless. Whatever their system where they have these vetoes, here you have a very serious threat where if Iran ever gets a nuclear weapon and you have got two client states, Russia and China, that basically could stop the whole deal, creates instability in that whole region.
They haven't been able to put together a force to go into Lebanon. The longer it takes to put a force together, you know, the only time it works is when we have to go forward and do it with our own troops. Obviously, we don't have the ability to do that. So as far as I'm concerned the United Nations can move to Governor's Island or Geneva or somewhere else, because they're worthless.
GOODWIN: I think one of the ironies here is that China and Russia, which could stop both North Korea and Iran's nuclear intentions, have both become pure capitalists. They'll do anything for money now. They'll sell weapon, they'll trade with Iran. They will do anything for money. Meanwhile, the world is edging towards the precipice.
At some point, China and Russia have got to see their own interests in pulling North Korea and Iran back from the brink or we're all going over together. And I think what it does, it leads to the United States, with Great Britain's help and Germany is pitching in a little bit, and certainly Israel. But I think that the burden does fall on the United States and we're going to have to assume it because there's no alternative. We cannot let Iran go nuclear.
ZIMMERMAN: One of the reasons Mike Goodwin is one of the great columnists in our nation is because of this sage column that he wrote today. I think he sums up the situation very well. But once again there's no short circuiting this. It comes back to the competence of this administration. And they spent their entire first term insulting old Europe, as they refer to it, putting down the United Nations. Now they're coming back to the U.N., looking for the U.N. to work with the United States and the Bush administration.
We're not seeing the kind of shuttle diplomacy that James Baker made so famous during the Persian Gulf War, that Warren Christopher used so effectively during the Clinton years, that was used by Henry Kissinger. We're not seeing the kind of shuttle diplomacy that's need and also this administration, and it's a tragedy for all Americans, does not have the credibility and has not shown that credibility to bring the parties together.
PILGRIM: We have to leave it there. Thank you very much Ed Rollins, Michael Goodwin, Robert Zimmerman. Thank you.
Well, still ahead, the results of tonight's poll and more of your thoughts on the war in Iraq. Stay with us.
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PILGRIM: Now, the results of tonight's poll, 57 percent of you say the Bush administration is to blame for the fact that Osama bin Laden has not been captured.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts. Herbert in Georgia, "Iraq is exploding in civil war. Our borders are wide open. Ports, cargoes, chemical plants, not inspected. And the majority of our media is obsessed with Mark Karr. What a shame."
And Boris in Minnesota writes, "The biggest news on television is John Mark Karr. Apparently the war in Iraq, the Israeli/Lebanon conflict, our border insecurity, the price of oil and the budget deficit are all just little problems."
Linda in New York, "My thoughts on sending more marines to Iraq, nuts. Send more marines to die? I don't think so. What is this government thinking?"
And Joel in Washington, "Here they go again. The Republicans have been calling illegal aliens undocumented. Now they're calling for a draft. They're calling it involuntary call up. What's next? This is totally crazy."
Michael in New Jersey, "Why are our legislators agonizing over illegal immigration? Last time I checked the term illegal means, you guessed it, illegal, what a concept."
We love hearing form you. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs@CNN.com and thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. Among our guests conservative leader Richard Begerry (ph) and the author the book "Conservatives Betrayed," Congressman John Barrow, who says CAFTA trade agreement has already begun triggering job losses in this nation. And for all of us here, good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Wolf Blitzer, Wolf.
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