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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Taliban Resurgent; Latino Leaders Debate Lou
Aired September 07, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, President Bush says radical Islamist terrorists will fail in Afghanistan, but five years after September 11th, the Taliban stronger than ever. And they are killing a rising number of our troops, NATO troops as well. We will have a special report tonight.
And the pro-illegal alien and open borders movement is rallying in Washington. But the turnout, much less than the illegal alien lobby had expected. And leaders of three Latino activist groups will be here to discuss the nation's illegal immigration crisis and the border crisis, and why they are accusing me of creating a climate of hostility toward all immigrants, without citing, however, a single example.
All of that and more straight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Thursday, September 7th. Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush today declared that radical Islamist terrorists will fail to re-establish control of Afghanistan. President Bush described the Taliban and al Qaeda as "desperate remnants." But the number of NATO troops killed in Afghanistan this month as is higher than the number of American troops killed in Iraq. NATO's supreme commander, U.S. General James Jones, today bluntly acknowledged that the scale of enemy resistance in Afghanistan is a surprise.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon on the worst violence in Afghanistan since the overthrow of the Taliban. Elaine Quijano reports from the White House on President Bush's latest speech defending the management of the war on terror. And Bill Schneider reports from Washington tonight on President Bush's political strategy as he tries to shift the national political agenda.
We turn first to Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, straight talk from the military four-star general in charge of NATO who concedes that the Taliban resistance is tougher than he thought and complains that NATO nations aren't giving his troops enough fire power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): NATO's top general says his troops in Afghanistan are being tested by a stubborn Taliban resistance which is showing a surprising willingness to stand and fight, instead of taking pot shots and running away, as NATO expected.
GEN. JAMES JONES, SUPREME NATO COMMANDER: Certainly the tenacity of the resistance is a little bit of a surprise. In the southern region it has turned out to be more than we expected, but certainly by no means unmanageable.
MCINTYRE: Jones says NATO knew it would stir up a hornet's nest when it began its southern offensive this summer, but the Taliban, flush with drug cash from a bumper harvest of opium, are well-armed and inflicting heavy casualties.
At least 35 British and Canadian troops have died in the past five weeks, and a town in the south has fallen to Taliban control. Meanwhile, NATO commanders have only 85 percent of the troops and equipment they were promised.
NATO has failed to come up with a squadron of attack helicopters and several C-130 transport planes that General Jones says his ground commander needs for additional flexibility on the battlefield.
Currently, there are about 19,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan, of which about 1,000 are American and 6,000 are in the south. In addition, the U.S. has another 20,000 troops under American command.
General Jones says the need for reinforcements is urgent but not dire.
JONES: So it's not a reinforcement in a desperate sense, but it is prudent military advice that adds a certain measure of guarantee and cushion to the forces that are already performing very well on the scene.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: General Jones says he did not use the term "reinforcements," because it connotes a certain panic and desperation which he says is not the case. He insists NATO troops will prevail. And he argued today that the -- that Afghanistan is in his words a "success story" in the making -- Lou.
DOBBS: A success story in the making. Thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre, from the Pentagon.
A new propaganda tape from al Qaeda today purports to show Osama bin Laden and other terrorist leaders planning the September 11th attacks. The tape was shown by the Arab television network Al Jazeera. The network did not say how it obtained the tape and it is not clear when that video was made. Terrorism experts say the tape is designed to raise morale within al Qaeda and boost recruitment to the terrorist group.
Insurgents have killed six more of our troops in Iraq, 21 of our troops have been killed in Iraq so far this month, 2,664 of our troops have been killed since this war began, and 19,945 wounded. Of those 9,062 seriously wounded.
Insurgents also launching a series of bomb and gun attacks against Iraqi police and civilians in Baghdad. Nineteen people killed today. Meanwhile, coalition forces handed over control of some of Iraq's armed forces to the Iraqi government. But only one Iraqi army division will be under Iraqi control for now. The other nine Iraqi divisions remain under the U.S. command.
President Bush today insisted his administration has made significant progress toward defeating the enemy in the war on terror. President Bush declared that America has learned the lessons of 9/11. The president's speech was the fourth in a series of speeches defending his conduct of the war ahead of midterm elections.
Elaine Quijano reports from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just days away from the fifth anniversary of the September 11th attacks, and two months away from midterm elections, President Bush urged Congress to move quickly on legislation dealing with military court trials for high-level terror suspects. He suggested any delay would mean putting off punishment for the alleged mastermind behind 9/11.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The sooner the Congress authorizes the military commissions I have called for, the sooner Khalid Shaikh Mohammed will receive the justice he deserves.
QUIJANO: Hours later, House GOP leaders announced they would take up the measure within the next two weeks. It is that kind of response from Capitol Hill that President Bush wants to impress upon voters. The message, give him a Congress that can give him the tools he needs to wage the war on terror.
From the controversial NSA eavesdropping program...
BUSH: The surest way to keep the program is to get explicit approval from the United States Congress.
QUIJANO: ... to the reauthorization of the Patriot Act.
BUSH: And the United States Congress was right to renew the terrorist act -- the Patriot Act.
QUIJANO: And Mr. Bush was more blunt when he spoke at a fundraiser for a Republican congressional candidate in Georgia.
BUSH: So I need members of Congress who understand that we must give our troops an intelligence, and those responsible for protecting America all the support they need.
QUIJANO: Democrats argue the president and Republicans have mismanaged the terrorism fight.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: Now the White House wants Congress to clean up their failures. This is not a question of will. It's a question of competence, from Katrina to Iraq to the war on terror, this White House has proven incapable of doing the job. And rather than acknowledge their mistakes, they use fear, fear, fear, and more fear as a national security policy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: And at a time when Democrats are trying to capitalize on the unpopularity of the Iraq war, President Bush once again continued today trying to make his case that success in Iraq and security for Americans are inextricably linked -- Lou.
DOBBS: Elaine, thank you. Elaine Quijano.
President Bush's speech today was a clear effort to shift the national political agenda to national security, away from the issues where the Democrats to have some political advantage. A new CNN poll out today shows that Republicans are facing a serious challenge from Democrats on a wide range of domestic issues.
Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Labor Day, the midterm campaign opens and Democrats seem to be in the catbird seat. On issue after issue, Democrats have the advantage. Which party do Americans think would do a better job on the minimum wage? Democrats by a whopping 33 points. Gas prices? Democrats. Health care? Democrats. Stem cell research? Democrats. Well you get the picture.
Even same-sex marriage and immigration, Democrats. Nationalize this election and Democrats win, especially on Iraq where public opposition has swelled. This week, congressional Democrats made their move, promoting a vote of no confidence in Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Then, President Bush stepped in with a move to nationalize the election on his term.
BUSH: We can say that if America had reforms in place in 2001, the terrorists would have found it harder to plan and finance their operations.
SCHNEIDER: By demanding that Congress give him the legal powers to try top al Qaeda detainees, the president instantly refocused the agenda on terrorism, the issue Republicans won on in 2002 and 2004. President Bush is daring Democrats to oppose giving him the powers he's asking for.
This time, however, Democrats refuse to go on the defensive.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Not only will we not be swiftboated on the issue of national security, we're going to take the fight to the Republicans. The war on Iraq has weakened our military, it has weakened our readiness. SCHNEIDER: Nationalizing the election carries risks for Republicans. The party's advantage on terrorism is not as big as it used to be. And there are other issues on the nation's agenda, all of them Democratic issues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: And congressional Republicans may split. Three influential republican senators, John Warner, John McCain, and Lindsey Graham, have come up with an alternative proposal for military trial procedures to the one the president is offering Congress -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, thank you very much. Bill Schneider.
Still ahead here, the illegal alien lobby calling for a massive pro-amnesty rally today in Washington, but the protest far from massive. We'll have a live report for you.
And our illegal immigration and border security crisis in this nation has become one of the top issues in the upcoming midterm elections. We'll be going live to Naco, Arizona, for a special report.
And the National Latino Congress is accusing me and this broadcast of engaging in untruthful propaganda. But the Latino Congress appears incapable of recognizing the difference between legal and illegal immigration. We'll try to sort it out with three leaders of the Latino movement. They'll join us for what I'm sure will be an uplifting discussion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: An illegal alien amnesty rally in Washington, D.C., tonight is proving support for the movement is evaporating. The amnesty movement is collapsing as voter anger over illegal immigration in this country is rising. Lisa Sylvester is live at the Washington Mall where amnesty supporters have once again failed to attract large numbers of protesters, as they did this spring. The AFL-CIO, among organizers of event.
And John King tonight is in Naco, Arizona, where border security and illegal immigration playing a decisive role in upcoming elections. We begin with Lisa Sylvester -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Senator Bill Frist said this week it will be nearly impossible to pass comprehensive immigration reform in the next three weeks. So the open borders advocates are responding with yet another rally.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (voice-over): This is what the Washington Mall looked like on May 1st, when illegal aliens came out by the thousands to demand amnesty. This is what it looks like today. Organizers were able to draw only several hundred people. What accounts for the difference? Congress has shut the door on so-called comprehensive immigration reform that would legalize millions of illegal aliens.
STEVEN CAMAROTA, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: I think there's a real palpable sense that the Senate bill is dead. Most Americans don't want to legalize illegal aliens and double legal immigration to 2 million a year in the future.
SYLVESTER: With the fall elections, a political reality has hit, Washington politicians could lose their jobs if they try to push through an amnesty bill. So, for now, it's dead. Today's rallies have not quieted demanded from protesters.
CESAR DURAN, PROTESTER: Everyone is the same in this country with paper or without paper.
JESSICA ALVAREZ, NATL. CAPITOL IMMIGRATION COALITION: For immigrant rights movement this is just the beginning. People have come out of their homes and are speaking up, and this is just the beginning of our movement.
SYLVESTER: But that may be wishful thinking. The momentum is slowing. Rally sponsors had to bus in demonstrations from places like Maine and Tennessee, a total of 180 buses. Congress is now preparing to advance border security legislation in the next week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And House representatives have essentially given up on negotiating with the Senate on this issue. Instead what they're looking to do is to insert border security language in other pieces of legislation that are moving along on Capitol Hill -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, let me be sure we've got this straight, 180 buses pulling people in from as far away as Maine and Tennessee, and there are only several hundred demonstrators there tonight?
SYLVESTER: I would say there are probably about 5,000, 6,000 demonstrators. But you've got to keep that in context with which they have this rally in May in which they had nearly 100,000 people. And you're absolutely right on that point, Lou, the way they're able to get this crowd behind me is because they literally had to bus people in from places as far away as Maine and Tennessee.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Lisa Sylvester, reporting from Washington.
In our poll tonight, do you believe five weeks at home with their constituents finally convinced our elected representatives that the American people want our borders secured and amnesty killed? Yes or no, cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have results here later for you.
Illegal immigration, border security now central issues in the nation's upcoming midterm election. And that the campaign's now under way, in Arizona alone, nearly two-thirds of voters say border security is their number one issue this November. Border security is dominating the debate ahead of an important Arizona primary. John King is in Naco, Arizona, where he reports tonight -- John.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The new frontier in American politics is marked by barbwire and pointed rhetoric.
RANDY GRAF (R), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: This here is national security.
KING: Conservative Randy Graf says, seal the border, whatever it takes. And make clear to the millions who have already crossed it illegally, they will not be allowed to work or collect government benefits.
GRAF: To suggest that we are going to grant amnesty and we are going to grant residency and give them status, and then follow it up with citizenship just doesn't make any sense to any sense to me.
KING: Graf's views are labeled extreme by both Democratic and Republican rivals, yet his tough law and order stance is defining the race here in Arizona's 8th Congressional District. The district stretches from Tucson to the Mexican border, its history as rugged as the terrain.
This is where Geronimo made his last stand, home of the OK Corral. And where Sheriff Larry Deaver (ph) says the failure of Congress to act on immigration this year makes him skeptical of all the national campaign focus on border security.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the present portends or predicts the future, we are just listening to more talk.
KING: The budget strain of Deaver's overcrowded jail is one reason the immigration debate is evolving.
STEVE HUFFMAN (R), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Hey, Michelle, this is Steve Huffman.
KING: In most years, Steve Huffman would have a lock on the Republican nomination. He has more money and is backed by the retiring incumbent and the national Republican establishment.
But while he opposes citizenship for anyone who broke the law to enter the country, he supports a new guest worker program open to millions who came here illegally.
HUFFMAN: You are not going to get people come out of the shadows unless we have some sort of legal status that has got to be available to them.
KING: To Randy Graf, Huffman's position equals amnesty, and Huffman's script for calls to Republican voters reflects a campaign on the defensive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He opposes amnesty for illegal immigrants, and will lead the fight to secure our borders.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now as you can see, this district comes right up against the fence here in Mexico. We are in Naco, now. Earlier when we were with Randy Graf, that was at the border in Douglas, just up the road a few miles.
Most of the attention is on the Republican campaign because of the internal Republican civil war over immigration. But, Lou, it's quite interesting to watch the Democrats as well. Gabrielle Giffords is the leading Democratic candidate. She insists her position should not be defined as amnesty, as Randy Graf calls it, but she's clearly sensitive to the issue, trying to come up with another label, something to defeat the amnesty label because her staff and others concede that that is a word and is a definition that has taken hold among the electorate.
The Democrats here are hoping that Randy Graf is the nominee, the Democratic Party spending money against the moderate Republican, trying to get Randy Graf the Republican nomination. Patty Weiss is the other Democratic candidate here, behind in the polls, a former TV anchor who thinks she, though, will win the nomination because of her name recognition.
But, Lou, it is quite interesting, the Democrats say they think they can sell their more moderate position here in this district, but they clearly, again, are nervous about that amnesty label. And Randy Graf says he's not only going to win the nomination, but he is going to prove both the Democratic and the Republican establishments wrong come November -- Lou.
DOBBS: So in this seat, from -- as Jim Kolbe is retiring, a moderate, even liberal Republican, who has been very supportive of the president's comprehensive immigration reform, which is simply code for amnesty, it looks as though it's Randy Graf against the field of Republicans and the Democrats?
KING: That's pretty much true. Mr. Huffman does not support citizenship. The Democrats both say they support some path to citizenship for those who crossed illegally. Mr. Huffman says that's a key distinct. But he does support allowing mole millions who have come into this country right across this border right here illegally to get legal status and to stay and work.
He says he just simply wouldn't give them citizenship. There are some longer-shot conservative Democrats in the race who are closer to Randy Graf's position, but among the major candidates, Lou, that's right, it's Randy Graf against a moderate Republican opponent, and two leading Democrats right now who have a very different view, a view close to the Bush/Kennedy/McCain view.
Randy Graf says that is not the view the American people want in this election. And this House race right here will be a key test of who's right. DOBBS: It will be a -- well, we'll know certainly come November and polls will help always long the way, as will your reporting, John King, always superior and helpful. We thank you.
Still ahead, Congress fighting to reopen the case of two U.S. Border Patrol agents who were targeted by the U.S. attorney's office in Texas and now face prison time for protecting our borders.
Five years after 9/11, the United States still can't say who's coming into the country under its visa waiver program. Our special report ahead on this serious terrorist threat to the nation.
And the National Latino Congress calls me a racist because we cover illegal immigration issues. I'll be talking with three leading members of the Latino Congress here tonight.
And former President Clinton battling ABC over a new TV movie on 9/11. All of that and much more coming right up, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, two U.S. Border Patrol agents, Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean are winning new support on Capitol Hill. Compean and Ramos are facing long prison terms for shooting a Mexican drug smuggler who was given immunity by the U.S. attorney to testify against them.
After our extensive reporting here on the issue, some in Congress are demanding the federal government reopen their case and delay their sentencing indefinitely.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lawmakers want answers in the case of Texas Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean. They face 20-year prison terms while the Mexican drug smuggler they shot during a struggle last year received immunity from federal prosecutors.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: You have to ask yourself, what is going on here? There's something that stinks to high heaven in this.
REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: It seems like the United States Justice Department's on the wrong side. It appears they're working for the government of Mexico instead of the government of the American people.
WIAN: Lawmakers are outraged the smuggler, who agents Ramos and Compean found carrying 743 pounds of marijuana, was also granted immunity for a separate half ton load.
REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R), TEXAS: It's a black mark against the country. It's a black mark against the Department of Justice and all of us in this country who support the rule of law. WIAN: North Carolina Congressman Walter Jones is leading the congressional effort to clear the agents.
REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: When I first heard about this injustice, I will be honest with you, I knew nothing about it until I was watching Lou Dobbs during the August break. That night I was so upset that I called my staff. I said, find out what is happening. I cannot believe that these two border agents are been found guilty of doing their job for the American people and will be sentenced to jail.
WIAN: He's written letters and called the White House and Justice Department to demand they reopen the case. Next week, he plans to hand deliver thousands of petitions to the White House. Supporters want a special counsel investigation.
ANDY RAMIREZ, FRIENDS OF THE BORDER PATROL: The court needs to be investigated. The Department of Justice needs to investigated, and the Department of Homeland Security.
T.J. BONNER, NATL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Justice demands that these Border Patrol agents be exonerated, that their good names be cleared. They are heroes. They were doing what we pay them to do.
SHERIFF TERRY CRAWFORD, UVALDE COUNTRY, TEXAS: If we turn our backs to these two border patrolmen that have put their lives on the lines for their job, then we might as well turn our backs on the war against drugs and the war against terrorism, because that's the message we're sending out.
WIAN: Public support for the agents continues with more than $100,000 in contributions to their legal defense funds.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Agent Compean was supposed to be sentenced in El Paso today, but sentencing for both agents has been delayed until October 18th. Supporters, as you mentioned, Lou, want the sentencing delayed indefinitely while Congress conducts a full investigation -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Casey Wian.
Let's take a look now at some of your thoughts. Lynn in Florida wrote in to say: "Dear Lou, I appreciate your honesty and your efforts on behalf of the middle class. I would appreciate it if you would stop saying the word 'Democrats' as if it was something you brought in on the bottom of your shoe."
Lynn, I'm no fan of either political party. I think they're the reason that we have two shoes.
And Tim in Wisconsin: "Mr. Dobbs, thank you for your honest reporting. I'm not looking forward to these elections. How do I vote these do-nothings out without letting the other do-nothings back in? This two-party system is the real failure. There is value in being an independent." Rebecca in Maryland said: "So, Lou, if you're not a Republican or a Democrat, what exactly are you? Let me venture a guess. You're a good, thoughtful moderate American like me, and that, unfortunately, apparently makes us members of a minority."
I'm afraid you're right.
E-mail us loudobbs.com with your thoughts. We appreciate them. We'll have more of your thoughts coming up here later.
Next, stunning revelations tonight about the terrorist threat to this nation from our very own visa waiver program.
Also tonight, the National Latino Congress finding time to blast my views on illegal immigration. Three leading members of the Latino Congress join us here.
And the United States handing control over the Iraqi armed forces to the Iraqi government. General David Grange will assess what is happening
And former President Clinton takes on ABC over its new 9/11 movie, fact or fiction, or politics, or entertainment, or all of the above? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Still ahead, I'll be talking with the GAO official who says a government program that could allow radical Islamist terrorists to enter this country without a visa is an absolute threat to the nation.
But first, former President Bill Clinton and former Clinton White House officials are demanding ABC make changes to its upcoming television movie on 9/11, or pull the movie. The head of the Clinton Foundation says, quote, "The context of the drama is factually and incontrovertibly inaccurate. It is unconscionable to mislead the American public."
Former Clinton officials say the film portrays them as being weak on terror and refusing to take military action against al Qaeda. ABC says the movie is not meant to be a documentary and admits it contains fictionalized scenes. ABC also says, now, quote, "no one has seen the final version of the film, because the editing process is not yet complete. So criticism of the film's specifics are premature."
A video was released today reportedly showing Osama bin Laden preparing for the September 11th attacks. The videotape was produced by al Qaeda. It is said to have been made some time in 2001. Three of the terrorists seen in the tape helped carry out the attacks, and al Qaeda official who says he helped plan 9/11 is seen in the video meeting with bin Laden.
Iranian President Ahmadinejad will be speaking at the United Nations later this month. U.N. officials expect the Iranian president at the United Nations on September 19th, the same day as President Bush is scheduled to speak. The Iranian president has said in the past that he wants to debate President Bush. The United Nations says it does not believe any precedent exists for denying a world leader a visa to visit the United Nations.
Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, however, has a view of his own and is standing by his decision tonight to deny all state security assistance to Iran's former president. Romney says it's outrageous that Mohammed Khatami has been invited to speak at Harvard University on September 10th, one day before September 11th. Governor Romney says he hopes Khatami will cancel his trip to Harvard because of security concerns.
President Bush today said the United States is safer now than on September 11th. But alarming testimony on Capitol Hill today suggests that this may not be the case. Officials warned Congress that it is easy for terrorists and criminals to enter this country under the U.S. visa waiver program. Christine Romans has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Terrorists are just a plane ride away from the United States, and getting here may be easier than you'd think. Anyone with passports from these 27 countries does not need a visa to enter the United States. Sixteen million people a year admitted with no visas, scant security beyond the cursory customs check at the airport. It's called the visa waiver program, and government investigators and homeland security experts say it's dangerously flawed.
CHRISTOPHER FARRELL, JUDICIAL WATCH: Should bad guys get a hold of a passport from one of those 27 different countries, they've got a golden ticket into the United States. They've got 90 days to run around the United States free and clear, with no one checking on them.
ROMANS: The Government Accountability Office says the visa waiver program has serious weaknesses and insufficient oversight. Quote, "lost and stolen passports from visa waiver countries are highly prized among those travelers seeking to conceal their true identities or nationalities." And in fact, "an undetermined number of inadmissible aliens may have entered the United States using a lost or stolen passport from a visa waiver country."
Oversight consists of two full-time government employees.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: An insufficient number of people watching over a huge program, probably not capable of identifying areas of concern. If you don't have the manpower or the technology applied to the problem and people can get through the cracks, that's exactly what the terrorists will try to exploit.
ROMANS: Recent terror arrests in Britain and Denmark raise another concern. The visa waiver program assumes the citizens of our allies pose no threat to the American people. In testimony today, the Department of Homeland Security admits, quote, "that sort of assumption is no longer sound."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: DHS says it's already addressing some of these concerns and will work with Interpol to screen passengers against a list of lost and stolen passports, some 12 million lost and stolen passports. But five years after September 11th, Lou, there are still gaping holes in our national security.
DOBBS: And we're nearing the fifth anniversary of 9/11. Christine, thanks. Christine Romans.
Joining me tonight is Jess Ford. He's the director of international affairs and trade for the GAO, and he testified at today's hearing. Good to have you with us.
JESS FORD, GAO DIRECTOR OF INTL. AFFAIRS: Thank you very much. Appreciate being here.
DOBBS: The idea that two employees are involved -- of the federal government -- are involved in oversight of this program to begin with, I mean, what -- no one is taking this seriously?
FORD: Well, we certainly think that the Department of Homeland Security has not made it a priority to resource that office. We -- that was one of the recommendations in our report, that they take a firm action to try to increase the resources and the people necessary to do effective oversight. We don't believe they currently can do it.
DOBBS: Let's take a look at a portion of that report. From January through 2 -- June 2005, the Department of Homeland Security reported that it confiscated at U.S. ports of entry 288 fraudulent or altered passports issued by visa waiver program countries. DH officials acknowledge that an undetermined number of inadmissible aliens may have entered the United States using a lost or stolen passport from a visa waiver country.
Your report recommends that DHS establish an electronic system that do something -- had they responded at all?
FORD: Yes, they're currently trying to work with Interpol to tap into Interpol's database, which contains as many as 12 million records of illegal passports, passports that have been stolen, blank passports. But they need to be available to our border inspectors so that they can know that a person coming off an airplane, for example, is traveling on an illegal document. If they don't have that information at their fingertips, a lot of these people are going to be able to get into the country.
DOBBS: Just -- what you're basically saying here, and the report is saying, is five years after September 11th, this country still has a mess on its hands?
FORD: We think that this particular program certainly needs to be strengthened. We had a series of recommendations in our report that are designed to do this. The key here is that it needs to be a priority on a part of DHS and the other federal agencies, and they make -- they need to make a commitment that they're going to try to close these security gaps.
DOBBS: Jess Ford, we thank you very much for being with us to highlight this critically important gap in our nation's security. We hope your recommendations and those of the GAO are followed by the DHS. Thank you, sir.
FORD: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next -- the amnesty agenda. Leading advocates for amnesty for illegal aliens and open borders meeting in Los Angeles. The leaders of three of the groups, all part of the National Latino Congress, will join me here next.
And deadly violence ripping across Iraq. Iraqis beginning to take control of military operations in their own country. General David Grange will be here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The National Latino Congress is meeting this week in Los Angeles to advance its agenda which includes open borders and illegal alien amnesty. It has also chosen to criticize this broadcast and me for reporting on illegal immigration issues and the way in which we do so.
The group says, quote, "Lou Dobbs and CNN engage in untruthful propaganda and vilification to incite fears, hostility and violence directed at immigrants." The Latino Congress makes no distinction between this broadcast's strong support for legal immigration and our strong stand against illegal immigration.
Joining me tonight, three of the leaders of the National Latino Congress and participants, Angela Sanbrano, the president of the National Alliance of Latin American and Caribbean Communities, and John Trasvina, the president and general counsel for the MALDEF, the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund; and Milton Rosado, the president of the Labor Council for Latin American Advancement.
First, thank you all for joining us here. Why don't we get straight to it? And let me start, if I may, with the issue that we are somehow being propagandists here. How would you like to take it? Any one of you respond? I mean, I'd like to know specifically how I'm anti-immigrant. I understand how I'm anti-illegal immigration, but help me out.
JOHN TRASVINA, PRES. & GEN. COUNSEL, MALDEF: Lou, the Latino Congress is not all about you, I have to say.
DOBBS: Well, we'll get to the rest of it.
TRASVINA: Well, we've come to Los Angeles, the capital of Latino Americans to talk about issues that Congress is not facing: immigration, education. In terms of the issue dealing with your show, you have to understand that you do vilify and demean immigrants. And you do that in ways when you talk about chain migration, that's both attacking legal -- that's attacking legal immigration. DOBBS: For the benefit ...
TRASVINA: Family unification is our major cornerstone of the immigration policy, yet you demean those people who are waiting in line legally, trying to bring in their brothers and sisters as one example. Angela has some other examples.
DOBBS: OK, Angela, fire at will.
ANGELA SANBRANO, PRES., NALACC: Well, Lou, when you make statements like Mexicans are an army of invaders, you know, frankly ...
DOBBS: By the way I never made that statement.
SANBRANO: Mexicans are an army of invaders -- we have a quote to that effect, and when, you know, that generates, that opens up a green light for attacks on our community. And that is irresponsible, because we're trying to build unity in our community and unity among the rest of the country.
DOBBS: I'm all for unity, too, Angela. And let me say it again. I have never uttered the words that you have just said. I have never said that. Ever. And you said, to that effect.
What I have said is that Mexico is an irresponsible government who is keeping its people in poverty, who maintains an elitist class running its country, who is denying opportunity to its people and using the United States as a safety valve for the impoverished, uneducated and those who desperately need a better life. I have said that and I will say it again.
TRASVINA: You use those people as a pincushion for your own purposes, Lou, and that's the problem.
DOBBS: Sorry?
TRASVINA: You've used those people as a pincushion for your own purposes.
DOBBS: No, sir, I'm not using those people as a pincushion. If I'm doing anything, I'm highlighting the fact that the government of Vicente Fox and his party, the PAN, and the previous administration, the PRI, have absolutely stifled the aspirations of the Mexican people, half of them living in poverty and you have the temerity to talk about propagandists?
The fact of the matter is, this administration, this Congress, and the previous administration have refused to secure our borders, to control immigration into this country. Those are issues for all Americans, whether you're Hispanic, or white, or black, Asian.
TRASVINA: And those are the issues that we can't get to because of the rhetoric of your show and of others.
DOBBS: And what is the rhetoric here? TRASVINA: We have bipartisanship breaking out in the U.S. Senate this year, bipartisanship on comprehensive immigration reform. What was the response by the House leaders? To do nothing, have these show hearings for the summer, nothing getting done. Now with three weeks left out, they're going to talk about security.
What we're talking about here in Los Angeles is coming together on long-term issues dealing with those other countries -- not just Mexico, but a lot of ascending countries. Immigration is a worldwide phenomenon, and we need to deal seriously with those subjects, not to vilify people and to demean immigrants is not the way to solve the problems, Lou.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more. Milton Rosado, let's get you into this.
MILTON ROSADO, PRES., LCLAA: Well, there's so much exploitation of workers in this country, documented or undocumented. And we believe that no matter what you do, there's a perception out there, a continual perception, that people look at all of us and things that you have said that you claim you haven't said and things that are out there ...
DOBBS: I just pointed out one sentence that Angela stated. It's not something I've ever said. I may have ...
ROSADO: You continue to say Mexicans. I mean, this is ...
DOBBS: I refer to Mexicans, yes.
ROSADO: Immigration isn't just about Mexicans.
DOBBS: Who is -- no, it certainly is not. And you said immigration. We're talking about illegal immigration and the preponderance of illegal immigrants entering this country are from Mexico, are they not?
TRASVINA: And you also say 20 illegal immigrants, when no estimate is accurate. You have no basis to say 20 million. Most say 11 million.
DOBBS: The Bear Stearns study -- excuse -- oh, please.
TRASVINA: Not 20 million, Lou.
DOBBS: By the way, have you read the Bear Stearns study?
TRASVINA: I've read a number of studies.
DOBBS: Well, you said that I didn't have a basis for it, and I'm telling you the basis. The Bear Stearns study puts the estimate as high as 20 million. On this broadcast we use numbers 12 to 20. And I think you would agree with me one of the great shames in the country.
TRASVINA: Right, that's a wide range. You're alone in that. Congress talks about 11 or 12 million. GAO does the same thing. The point is that we can have a discussion, the nation needs a conversation on immigration. You are an obstacle to that.
DOBBS: I'm an obstacle? To what?
TRASVINA: You're an obstacle to a full and fair conversation on immigration.
DOBBS: We're not talking about immigration. We're talking about illegal immigration. Why do you continue to confound the distinction? Why is it so important to you to obfuscate the difference.
TRASVINA: You do that when you talk about chain migration. You do that when you talk about anchor babies. United States citizens, under the Constitution, that's where you blur the lines. And that's the problem, Lou.
SANBRANO: Lou, also ...
DOBBS: I blur the line. What have I ever said about anchor babies?
TRASVINA: You have said that they do not have -- they do not have rights, they should not have rights that they do have under the Constitution under the 14th Amendment.
DOBBS: Oh, absolutely I have not said that at all. I have not said that at all. I would never deny -- this broadcast and I, sir, are absolutely committed to the rights of every American citizen including, including, anchor babies. This broadcast and I are also committed and this broadcast and I are also committed to the truth.
And what I'm asking you do is to consider one thing that I have said. I have said that you cannot reform immigration law unless we can control immigration. And we cannot control immigration unless we secure our borders. And if you can defeat syllogism, that reasoning, I will be glad to listen to you. What I don't understand is why you don't embrace the idea of securing our borders.
TRASVINA: That's part of comprehensive immigration reform. We don't have enough time to talk about all of your inaccuracies, whether it's the 11 million and the 20 million. We are talking about a positive agenda on immigration that serves not just the Latino community, but serves all Americans. Every business, every family, every community, depends upon immigration.
We are growing economy, we need workers beyond just U.S. workers. We need a way to get to that solution. It's going to be done through conversation. It's not going to get done through, frankly, the cable- type of operation where people are just yelling at each other. We need the conversation. Congress should have acted this year. They didn't do that. Latino Congreso is acting here Los Angeles.
SANBRANO: And the policy -- we need a policy ...
DOBBS: Angela, you get the last word.
SANBRANO: Yes, we need a policy that unites our families, that unites the American people because at the end of the day, what we're trying to do is to build the well-being of the Latinos, the immigrants, and Americans. And our immigration laws are broken. They need to be fixed and a border-only security policy is not the right policy.
We need comprehensive immigration reform and we need it now. And it is a shame that Congress is leaving this session of Congress without dealing with an issue that is very close to our hearts and that we must deal with it. So to the extent that you contribute to a possible debate I welcome the debate.
TRASVINA: And we appreciate you having us on.
DOBBS: Well, we thank you for being here, and this is, obviously, a difficult issue, a lot of interests colliding. But I assure you, I hope that if there is a point at which we can join in this country, it is the national interest and the well-being of American citizens and a rational immigration policy, which in my view, should begin with, of course, border security.
Angela Sanbrano, John Trasvina, we thank you very much. Milton Rosado, we thank the three of you. We wish you all the best over the next few days at your conference. Thank you.
TRASVINA: Thank you.
ROSADO: Thank you.
SANBRANO: Thank you.
DOBBS: Just ahead, we'll have more of your thoughts on whether you believe your children will have a better standard of living than you.
And a wave of deadly violence ripping through Iraq today, killing more of our troops and dozens of Iraqi civilians. General David Grange joins me to assess whether this is civil war, whether this is a reasonable strategy through which we can achieve victory. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: General David Grange joins me now. He served with distinction in infantry, special operations and anti-terrorist units all across the globe in the service of this country.
General Grange, turning over one of Iraq's 10 army divisions, a step forward. Is it a reason, however, for us to also be concerned?
GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it's the start of the process, and eventually all of this has to be turned over to the Iraqi military. They're quite capable. They are going to still need service support from the United States military, air support.
I think the key question now is not only how well they are trained, but will they be loyal to the elected Iraqi government when push comes to shove between the different factions.
DOBBS: The Iraqi government releasing fatalities from last month, contradicting U.S. reports, saying that actually we had seen a decline of 50 percent in fatalities in Iraq last month, when in fact the Iraqi government now says, raising its own first estimate, that it's about the same as in the month of July. Why can't we get accurate, straightforward information?
GRANGE: A country in total chaos right now. You can argue civil war or not, but it's definitely in a chaotic situation. And I would say that probably all of these reports are suspect.
DOBBS: And one report that is not, and that is the NATO commander, U.S. General James Jones, calling for reinforcements, five in Afghanistan, because of a rising insurgency. Your reaction?
GRANGE: Rising insurgency because you still have a safe haven in Pakistan, it's not controlled by the Pakistani government. And you have a Taliban that took advantage of, it seems, the void created between the handoff between U.S. forces and NATO forces. And a situation now is, will the NATO countries, the other countries, get their head out of the sand and participate in what could turn into a regional war if they don't help out the situation.
DOBBS: General Dave Grange, as always, thank you, sir.
Still ahead -- we'll have more of your thoughts on whether you believe your children will have a better life than you. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Results of our poll -- more than 70 percent of you do not believe five weeks at home with their constituents finally convinced our elected representatives that the American people want our borders secured and amnesty killed. More time required, apparently.
Time now for your thoughts. Nick in California wrote in to say -- "Lou, in listening to the comments from viewers of your show as I do religiously every day, dare one hope that the American people are finally beginning to wake up to the hypocrisy of their leaders and are actually casting off those cutesy, rose-colored blinders that they have for so long worn? If so, hallelujah, brother!"
And John in Florida -- "Lou, regarding your poll question of whether our children will have a better standard of living than we had, you should have had an answer that said, 'hell no.'"
But Sylvia in California says -- "My children already have a higher standard of living than I do, because early on, I taught them the importance of a good education."
Charles in Oklahoma -- "While the Republicans and Democrats are playing politics, this country of ours is going to hell in a handbasket. Doesn't anyone on the Hill care about us anymore?"
And George in California -- "Hey, Lou. Since the Republicans want to call us defeatocrats, why don't we call them republican'ts?"
Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. Each of you whose email is read here, receives a copy of the financial report of the United States and Senator Byron Dorgan's important new book, "Take This Job and Ship It."
We thank you for being with us tonight. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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