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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bush Challenged by Moderate Senate Republicans On Law to Clarify Geneva Conventions on Treatment of Detainees; A U.S. General Questions Strategy in Iraq, Saying Baghdad Should Be The Single Front Against Insurgents; Peter King Interview; E. Coli Spreading Throughout United States Because Of Fresh Bagged Spinach
Aired September 15, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight a stunning admission by a top U.S. military commander in Iraq. Also tonight, a damning new report on the threat to our democracy from e-voting. And a national alert for contaminated spinach, at least one person has died. The FDA tells consumers across the country to throw out their spinach.
All of that and a lot more, here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Friday September 15. Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush today escalated the showdown with leading senators in his own party over the treatment of foreign terror suspects. President Bush declared that Congress must support his proposals or intelligence officers will not be able to interrogate terrorism suspects effectively.
At the same time, President Bush strongly defended his strategy to defeat insurgents and terrorists in Iraq. President Bush insists there is no civil war in Iraq, and he praised the performance of the commanding generals leading our troops.
Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House on the president's efforts to quash the Republican revolt in the Senate. Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill tonight on the Republican rebels' determination to stand their ground. And Michael Ware reports from Baghdad tonight on a surprising admission by a top U.S. commander on the military's priorities in Iraq. We turn first to Suzanne Malveaux on at the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the White House is already beginning to see small dividends on it's all out campaign to turn the focus from the Iraq war to the broader war on terror with a slight bump in polls for the president.
But the White House is now engaged, in what public observers say is a risky strategy, that is to take on the moderate Republicans over this controversial issue of how to treat detainees.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush came out swinging. Offering in an aggressive defense of his plan for tougher interrogations of detainees under U.S. custody, making no apologies for his request to clarify the Geneva Conventions, the international treaty which defines how prisoners of war are to be treated.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're trying to clarify law. We're trying to set high standards, not ambiguous standards.
MALVEAUX: It's all part of the president's recent strategy, to get voters to focus on national security, a Republican strength, and off of focusing on the unpopular Iraq war. With the midterm elections now just seven weeks away, Mr. Bush is trying to push tough anti- terrorism measures through Congress, banking on the belief that Americans will back him.
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISOR: They have calculated, if he puts more heat on the Congress, he's more likely to get his own way. And secondly, that if he's -- that if he is this defiant, this belligerent, it will help his own standing with the public and in turn help the Republicans in the fall campaign.
MALVEAUX: But what the president didn't count is a revolt from top members of his own party -- like possible 2008 presidential candidate John McCain -- over just how far he could go in asserting his executive power to spy on, imprison and interrogate terrorism suspects.
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell broke his loyal silence, saying altering the Geneva Conventions would throw the moral basis of the U.S.' war on terror in doubt.
BUSH: It's flawed logic. I just simply -- I can't accept that. It's unacceptable to think that there's any kind of comparison between the behavior of the United States of America and the action of Islamic extremists.
MALVEAUX: Senior administration officials insist the split within the party is just a bump in the road. They say history shows the American people back the tough talk on terror, so that's what the president doled out in his hour-long press conference, tough talk, on the search for Osama bin Laden.
BUSH: We have been on the hunt, and we'll stay on the hunt until we bring him to justice.
MALVEAUX: And on his refusal to sit down with Iran's president, although the two men will be at the U.N. next week.
BUSH: No, I'm not going to meet with him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now, Lou, it's unclear whether or not this strategy is going to work for the White House, for the president, but as one GOP strategist put it to me today, he said, every day the president is talking about the broader war on terror, as controversial as it may be, and not the Iraq war, is a good day for this White House -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you. Suzanne Malveaux from the White House.
On Capitol Hill, the Republican rebels tonight are refusing to back down. One of them, Senator John McCain, strongly challenged the president's remarks on terrorism suspects, Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the president's Republican opponents are as dug in as he is on this issue. Senator John McCain issued a lengthy statement trying to counter the president, especially his central argument, that under McCain's proposal the program to get information from suspects that could prevent another attack, will have to stop, because interrogators will be too worried about being tried for war crimes.
Now, McCain insists that the president is flat wrong. He says nothing in his measure would require the closure of those CIA detainee programs, because he says his measure would give legal protections to interrogators.
There you see the senator trying to explain something else, why he is so opposed to altering the Geneva Convention.
He says, "I oppose unilaterally reinterpreting in law Geneva Common Article 3. Weakening the Geneva protections is not only unnecessary but would set an example to other countries, with less respect for basic human rights, that they could issue their own legislative reinterpretations, this puts our military personnel and others directly at risk in this and future wars." That's Senator John McCain.
Now, as for Democrats, Lou, they are quite happy to sit back and watch this Republican feud, and sit on the sidelines, but they are also quite happy about the fact that it's not just Republicans, but it's a former prisoner of war, Republicans who are well respected in the military community, who are essentially fighting their political fight for them.
Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer, of New York, who is in charge of trying to get Democrats elected this fall, says, "When conservative military men like John McCain, John Warner and Lindsey Graham and Colin Powell stand up to the president, it shows how wrong and isolated the White House is."
Now, next week is when we expect the House to take up the president's bill, probably on Wednesday. Of course, the Senate is where the big fight is going to be. That also could come to the Senate floor next week.
Lou, it's this time, behind the scenes, both sides are lobbying hard to try to get votes for their positions. And, tonight, one other Republican has broken ranks with the -- with the president, moderate Senator Olympia Snow, from Maine, said she is going to support the Armed Services Chairman John Warner, Senator McCain and Lindsey Graham, she does not support the president -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you. Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
In the war in Iraq, insurgents have now killed two more of our troops. A Marine was killed in Al Anbar Province today and a soldier was killed in Baghdad, yesterday.
Separately, the U.S. military says one of our soldiers is unaccounted for after yesterday's suicide attack on a U.S. outpost in Baghdad. Two soldiers were killed in that attack, another 33 soldiers were wounded. Many of the wounded soldiers are in serious condition; 37 of our troops have been killed, in Iraq, so far this month; 2,680 of our troops have been killed since the beginning of the war.
One of the top U.S. generals in Iraq, General Peter Chiarelli, today declared the battle for Baghdad is more important than defeating insurgents in Al Anbar Province. General Chiarelli defended U.S. military the strategy after a Marine Corps intelligence report said the United States has lost the political battle to defeat insurgents in Al Anbar. Michael Ware reports now from Baghdad -- Michael.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, despite President Bush recently highlighting the battles with al Qaeda in Iraq's western Anbar Province, as a centerpiece of the global war on terror, what we're seeing increasingly is that the battle for Baghdad is increasingly the focus of the military campaign and the war here in Iraq.
The U.S. military says that the war could all but we won or lost here in the capital. Meanwhile, this is having an effect in Anbar Province, drawing attention and troops from that restive region. Though troops levels are at a high of 147,000 American forces, in Iraq, most of them focused here in the capital, there still remains simply not enough to secure the capital, nor the rest of the country.
Also, working in conjunction with Iraqi security forces, which are still fledgling and incapable of contributing in a significant way, they also posed the problem of leaking information, many of these security forces have ties to the insurgents and the militias.
More strangely, however, we heard the ministry of the interior today float a plan to build trenches around Baghdad, with its population of 5 million plus, to try and prevent car bombs entering the city. This was a plan that was tried in other areas by U.S. Forces building berms around the cities of Fallujah and Talafa, where that plan also failed. So the center and very much and the focus is on Baghdad -- Lou?
DOBBS: Michael Ware, reporting from Baghdad.
The United States tonight also faces a challenge from two of this country's most outspoken critics. Venezuela and Iran are using an international summit, now going on in Cuba to forge an anti-American alliance. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez now supports Iran's dangerous efforts to build nuclear weapons. Christine Romans has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Master and apprentice; a frail Fidel Castro embracing Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, as an international summit gets under way in Cuba, a room full of world leaders, but America-hating Chavez is the star of the show.
Chavez embracing Iran's nuclear ambitions and pledging to defend Iran from what he said is a planned U.S. invasion.
HUGO CHAVEZ, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): We will be with Iran, just like we would be with Cuba. I have always said if the United States invaded Cuba, Venezuelan blood would flow.
ROMANS: Chavez fashions himself a socialist revolutionary. And never misses a chance to insult the Bush administration. Marking the fifth anniversary of 9/11, by saying "The U.S. may have been behind the attacks." A typical Chavez taunt from a man who has evolved from regional nuisance to the United States, to global player.
DAN ERIKSON, INTER-AMERICAN DIALOGUE: I think the U.S. policy in the region has been adrift for a number of years and what you've seen is that while the U.S. still does have strong alliances with some countries, it's simply has been outwitted by Venezuela time and time again. And I think the nonaligned movement is one more symptom of that.
ROMANS: Chavez using this summit in Havana to lobby for votes on the United Nations Security Council in the face of stiff U.S. opposition. And to push a document backing Iran's right to nuclear technology; and another critical of Israel's war in Lebanon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And, Lou, next stop -- New York, where Chavez and Ahmadinejad take their anti-American alliance to the United Nations next week.
DOBBS: Christine, thanks very much. Christine Romans.
Still ahead here, a nationwide alert tonight for contaminated spinach; at least 20 states with -- with contaminated spinach, and notices are now in place. We will have the latest.
The battle to secure our borders: The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Congressman Pete King, among our guests here tonight.
And Mexican drug rings using U.S. national forests to grow marijuana. We'll have that special report, and a great deal more, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight this nation's national forests are being overrun by Mexican drug cartels and their marijuana-growing operations. We reported earlier this week on a massive marijuana bust in a national forest in Northern California, 800 miles from the Mexican border. Officials are almost certain that Mexican drug gangs are behind this operation, and many more around the country.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We accompanied law enforcement agents on a massive bust of a marijuana-growing operation in Northern California this week.
In two days, sheriff's deputies, the FBI, and others, seized 25,000 marijuana plants, weighing more than six tons with a street value of $125 million. They also seized evidence linking the operation to Mexican drug traffickers, but the growers got away.
SHERIFF RICK RIGGINS, SISKIYOU COUNTY, CALIF.: These guys work up there seven days a week, they live up there. And so these guys are in very good shape. They have their exits all planned.
WIAN: But there may be a break in the case. The Siskiyou County sheriff's department says it has seven illegal aliens in custody. They were discovered by local residents just a few miles from the pot farms. So far this year California's justice department has eradicated 1.2 million marijuana plants, worth nearly $5 billion, mostly on public land such as national forests.
SCOTT MCGREGOR, U.S. ATTORNEY, EAST CA. DISTRICT: Literally without exception, in terms of these very large groves, on the federal public lands over the last three years, every one of them -- in terms of the suspects that we've caught and the evidence that has led us to who we believe the perpetrators were involved, Mexican nationals.
WIAN: In California, the number of plants seized in marijuana gardens has doubled in just two years. Mexican methamphetamine traffickers are using proceeds in that business to diversify in marijuana. Among the consequences of the pot farms, devastating environmental damage from deforestation, trash and irrigation systems.
MCGREGOR: They also will throw chemicals in these and bags of fertilizer, which will leach into the water system.
JOHN GAINES, CALIF. BUREAU OF NARC ENFORCEMENT: These are all damage to our natural resources that our citizens, you know, shouldn't have to put up from the occupying force of foreigners, that are coming in here and taking over our land.
WIAN: As the marijuana gardens grow in size and the law enforcement efforts intensify, agents say traffickers are becoming more violent, and are a significant threat to recreational users of our national parks and forests.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WIAN: Now the FBI is still looking for hard evidence that the seven illegal aliens in custody in Siskiyou County are directly related to those marijuana-growing operations. If they can't find the evidence, the men will be deported, possibly within the next day or two, Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian reporting from Los Angeles.
Tonight a former U.S. border inspector faces up to 35 years in prison for a shocking act of corruption. Fifty-five-year-old Richard Elizalda (ph) has pleaded guilty to taking bribes from human smugglers, and helping hundreds of illegal aliens enter this country. Prosecutors say he took in at least $120,000 in bribes in doing so.
The United States is issuing an urgent warning to Americans about travel to Mexico. The State Department says that, quote, "brutal violence is on the rise all across Mexico, particularly in four Mexican states."
The State Department says Americans should exercise, quote, "extreme caution when traveling in these areas." The State Department issued a separate warning to Americans about travel to the Mexican state of Oaxaca last month. Violent, anti-government riots and demonstrations have been tearing that state part in the last five months.
Anti-government demonstrators have seized control of the capitol city and set up their own shadow government. Police have fled the city. The demonstrations have been fueled, in part, by the ongoing turmoil over the disputed Mexican presidential election.
Today, supporters of Leftist candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador announced they are ending street protests that have paralyzed Mexico City for the past two months. But they vowed to continue their civil resistance campaign, and protests of the election. The Mexican supreme court ruled Obrador's opponent, Felipe Calderon, to be the winner in the case -- in the race, and in so doing, they validated his winning less than one half of 1 percent winning margin.
Still ahead, Congressman Pete King has won an important victory in his battle to build a 700 mile boarder fence. Congressman King joins us here.
The e. Coli health emergency from contaminated spinach, has now hit up to 20 states. We'll have the story for you.
And an important new study on electronic voting machines. Warning of the machines and threats to our upcoming midterm elections. Stay with us for that, and a great deal more, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The midterm elections just weeks away and new evidence tonight that the integrity of those elections cannot be guaranteed. A new Princeton University study finds hackers can easily tamper with electronic voting machines by installing a virus to disable machines and change vote totals. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Princeton scientists spent the summer analyzing the Diebold AccuVote TS Electronic Voting Machine, the results were alarming, confirming the machine is very vulnerable to tampering.
EDWARD FELTEN, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: You could infect one machine, and before election, when the poll workers are setting things up, for the vote, they actually move memory cards from one machine to another, and they may propagate the virus.
PILGRIM: The Princeton group only studied one type of machine, that model will be used in 357 counties across the country by 10 percent of the voters in November. They say the vote can be easily manipulated without being detected.
The malicious software can modify all the records, audit logs, and counters kept by the voting machine. So that even careful forensic examination of these records will find nothing amiss.
Across the country, voter activists have participated in hearings and studies to point out that without a voter-verified paper trail, the results of electronic voting can be badly botched, either intentionally or unintentionally, through computer crashes or human error in running the electronic voting machine.
Some activists in Colorado are so concerned that they are suing to stop the use of electronic voting machines in November. The state uses machines used by Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia, and Hart. A suit has been has been filed on behalf of a group of Colorado citizens against the Colorado secretary of state, saying testing was not adequate. And they are calling for the electronic machines been to be decertified.
PAUL HULTIN, WHEELER TRIGG KENNEDY: The chairman of the state Democratic Party has called for the resignation of the secretary of state and for the use of absentee ballots in the election, because of the concern about the broken certification process at the secretary of state's office.
PILGRIM: There is a hearing next week to seek a ruling from the judge to make absentee ballots available in November.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: And, Lou, activists say they have just enough time to get the absentee paper ballots printed before November.
DOBBS: And these machines, in these counties, about 10 percent of the total vote this fall? They don't have an audit trail, a paper trail?
PILGRIM: No, they do not. And that's the great worry. That you can lose the vote, and tamper with them and ...
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much. Kitty Pilgrim.
Time now for your thoughts.
Bess in Florida wrote to say "Lou, building a fence on our southern border, falling gas prices, and oh, yes, a little more than a month to elections!"
Skeptics out there.
Tom in Texas, "A 700-mile fence? If we had all the money that was wasted in Iraq for no reason we could build a fence around the entire perimeter of the United States and have enough left over to hire people to mind the gates."
Wouldn't it be nice if gates were need.
Ruth in Nevada: "If President Bush doesn't think a fence across our border is a good idea then let's take down the fence around the White House."
Michael in Oregon: "Lou, if our borders and ports are unprotected, just what the hell does Homeland Security mean?"
Give us your thoughts; send them to us at LouDobbs.com. More of your thoughts are coming up here later.
That brings us to our poll and the question tonight -- do you believe torturing terror suspects is the more effective national security strategy than, say, securing our ports and borders? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.
There is controversy tonight over a British church advertisement that shows a glass of beer with the image of Christ on it. The Christian's Advertising Network's poster shows the face of Jesus in the froth of a nearly empty pint glass. The caption reads, "Where will you find him?"
The poster is part of a new campaign, apparently there's the -- there's the glass. Part of a new campaign apparently to encourage church attendance during Christmas. But some say the ad's message is lost and, instead, promotes drinking. The network says it's just playing off recent discoveries of holy images in everyday objects, such as the purported version of the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich.
Coming up here next, the number of states effected by this nation's e. Coli contamination emergency is widening; as many as 20 states may be involved now.
Congressman Pete King wants to build a 700-mile fence along our border with Mexico, and he has the legislation to do it, and he's our guest.
And the latest from Coushatta, Louisiana, where a white school bus driver forced black students to the back of the bus. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Ford Motor Company today announced sweeping new cost- cutting measures that will further hurt its middle-class workforce -- and, in fact, the middle-class nationwide. Ford says it will cut 10,000 more salaried jobs, shut down two additional plants.
Ford is also offering buyouts to all of its 75,000 North American hourly workers. Ford says the new measures are needed to avoid a full- scale financial crisis as its losses widen, losses up to $9 billion are expected for this year.
Republican Congressman Bob Ney of Ohio agreed to plead guilty today to illegally accepting meals, trips, and gifts from disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff. Ney is the first U.S. lawmaker to confess to crimes in the Abramoff scandal, aside from Abramoff, himself, leading the way.
Ney will officially enter his guilty plea in court next month, facing a maximum of 10 years in prison. Prosecutors say he accepted 10s of thousands of dollars in gifts from Abramoff, and his associates, in exchange for introducing legislation benefiting Abramoff clients. He is retiring from the House this year.
Anger is rising in the Muslim world tonight over comments made by Pope Benedict about Islam. Muslims accused the pope of insulting Islam in a recent speech, in which he quoted a Christian emperor who died almost 600 years ago.
The pope quoted the emperor as saying, quote, "Show me just what Mohammed brought what was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman." Pakistan's parliament today condemned the pope's remarks. Muslims in Iraq and Turkey also expressing their outrage. The Vatican insists that Pope Benedict does not endorse this view of Islam or wish to insult Islam.
NASA tonight congratulating space shuttle astronauts for their successful completion of their construction mission. Astronauts ended their third and final spacewalk today. They worked on the space station's solar power systems. The shuttle undocks from the station Sunday and expected to return to earth Wednesday.
In the West, wildfires there have forced hundreds of people from their homes. Two fires burning in northern California, displacing residents from 160 home. Hundreds of others were put on alert for possible evacuation. Fires there have burned more than 50,000 acres.
And in Montana tonight, 325 homes have been evacuated because of a fire that firefighters have been battling for several weeks now. Firefighters are hoping cooler weather will help them in their efforts to bring those fires under control.
Tonight, Americans in as many as 20 states have been sickened by an outbreak of deadly E. coli bacteria in spinach. As many as 95 people have already been stricken. One person has died. The FDA tonight advising all consumers to stop eating bagged spinach until further notice. And many supermarket chains around the country, such as this one in Utah, are pulling bagged spinach off their shelves.
Christy Feig has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTY FEIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Health officials are concerned about this outbreak because this type of E. coli is one of the most dangerous. Symptoms include abdominal cramping and diarrhea that can be bloody. Officials say if you've eaten bagged spinach recently and you have symptoms go to your doctor.
E. coli is found naturally in the intestines of cows and other animals, and outbreaks are often linked to contaminated waste in water, meat, or unwashed produce. The CDC estimates every year this strain of E. coli in the United States causes about 73,000 illnesses and 60 deaths. The question is, how did the bacteria get into the spinach?
DR. ROBERT BRACKETT, FDA: It could end up with wild animals such as deer walking through. That could contaminate the product. It could come from contact with contaminated surface water, streams or ponds that might flood or if you irrigate the product with contaminated water.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEIG: Now, for now, the agency says the focus is to determine where in the production chain this contamination happened. They hope to be able to narrow it down to even the brand of spinach and the lot numbers, but they say that may take as long as next week -- Lou.
DOBBS: Christy, there are obviously great concerns about this. The idea that you can wash off produce, spinach in this case, and to eliminate E. coli, is that a valid thought, or is it ineffective?
FEIG: It's a good point to bring up with this. It actually does not work well with this particular strain of E. coli. This E. coli is very strongly attached to these leaves. It actually even burrows into the plant so the water won't remove it if it reaches it, and a lot of times it won't even reach it. Best not to tempt fate with this particular pathogen and throw it away.
DOBBS: So the basic message tonight is for all consumers of this bagged spinach, do not touch it, period.
FEIG: Throw it away, that's exactly right.
DOBBS: All right. Christy Feig, thank you very much.
FEIG: You bet.
DOBBS: At his press conference today, President Bush all but conceded that his push for so-called comprehensive immigration reform is dead in Congress this year. But the president once again insisted that so-called comprehensive reform is the only way to solve the border crisis. This is what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When Congress gets down to a comprehensive bill, I will just remind them it's virtually impossible to try to find 11 million folks who have been here working hard, in some cases raising families and kick them out. It's just not going to work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: His efforts to find some compromise in the issues between border security and immigration reform, leaders in the House of Representatives are fighting to pass a series of tough border-security proposals before the midterm elections.
The House passed a significant security initiative yesterday, voting to build 700 miles of new, double-layer fencing along the border with Mexico. The border-fence proposal still needs to be approved by the Senate. The leaders of the Senate, of course, still appear to be far more interested in amnesty for illegal aliens than in securing our borders or our ports.
Joining me tonight is Congressman Pete King. He's the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee and he is the sponsor of the border-fence initiative.
Mr. Chairman, good to have you with us.
REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: Lou, great to be here.
DOBBS: What in the world is President Bush talking about? He doesn't get the message, does he?
KING: There's a real difference, honest difference, but a real difference, for instance, between myself and the president and between House Republicans and the president and most importantly, between the American people and the president.
This is, to me, one of the widest disconnects I've seen between not just the president but also the Senate on that side, and also many in the elite media. The American people want action at the border. They don't want amnesty. They don't want a path to citizenship. They want us to show we can control the border.
DOBBS: Now, first, congratulations on your success in moving this legislation through and getting it passed.
KING: Thank you.
DOBBS: Secondly, are you going to fund the legislation and make it really happen?
KING: Yes, surely. As for the Senate, the Senate passed it, I guarantee you, and we'll fund it. We will definitely fund it. It provides -- as much funds as have to be appropriated will be. That's the -- we are very serious about this. This is a 700-mile fence. In addition to that, it's a virtual fence along the rest of the border, including census, unmanned aerial vehicles. It's absolutely essential that we do it.
DOBBS: And we should point out that, because of testimony in Congress this year, we've learned that most of the technology, whether it's cameras, whether it's sensors, whether it's the one UAV, the available, basically it isn't working, is it? We actually need a fence in order to have effective control of our borders.
KING: Yes, we really do. And fences work. For instance, San Diego, just a 14-mile fence ...
DOBBS: Right.
KING: ...in San Diego, caused a reduction in crime of more than 50 percent. I've been down at the border in Yuma, Arizona, Nogales, Arizona -- fences are absolutely essential. You talk to the Border Patrol, you talk with the National Guard, they tell you that.
DOBBS: Let's turn to the issue of the president again. If we could, I'd like just everyone to listen to what the president said at his press conference today, and I'm going to ask you, Mr. Chairman, to act as our interpreter of the presidential view.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I strongly believe that in order to protect this border, Congress has got to pass a comprehensive plan that, on the one hand, provides, you know, additional money to secure the border; and, on the other hand, recognizes that people are sneaking in here to do jobs that Americans aren't doing.
It would be better that they not sneak in, that they would come on a temporary basis, in an orderly way to do work Americans aren't doing and then go home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Mr. Chairman, what in the world did that mean?
KING: I think basically the president is endorsing the Senate bill. I mean, again, the president was up before the Republican conference yesterday, and number of us stood up and told the president that his proposed legislation, the Senate's legislation is not going to fly, that we have to do enforcement.
We can do it in pieces. The first one yesterday I think with the fence is very, very important. That would bring a significant reduction in illegal immigration.
DOBBS: Do you think the Senate will go along with your legislation?
KING: They may have to now. They are being boxed in on this, because I don't know how they can be against it. I mean, just because we can't do everything doesn't mean we should do nothing. I'm saying let's do something significant. This is easy. It can be done.
DOBBS: Congressman Pete King, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. As always, good to have you here.
KING: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: And congratulations.
Still ahead, I'll be joined by three of this country's top political analysts and journalists.
Outrage in Louisiana tonight after black children were forced, ordered, to the back of the bus. Rosa Parks' niece and the Justice Department are now in Coushatta, Louisiana, and so are we.
And in "Heroes" tonight, the story of two brave Navy SEALs who fought, despite grievous wounds, to protect a fallen comrade. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The U.S. Justice Department today opened an investigation into the case of a white school bus driver who forced black students to the back of the bus in Louisiana. This broadcast has been reporting extensively on the case, a case that is bringing back painful memories of the region's segregationist past. Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, we are one family, and that's important.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was concern over the nine children in Coushatta that drew the involvement of Rhea McCauley. Like her Aunt Rosa Parks, who in 1955 refused to take a seat in the back of the bus, Miss McCauley said she had to speak with action.
RHEA MCCAULEY, ROSA PARKS' NIECE: This is an opportunity for us to create hundreds of thousands of little Rosa Parks, and this is what it's going to take.
TUCKER: She will go to Coushatta with a representative from the Justice Department.
CAMILITA POPE FREEMAN, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT: The name of the agency is Community Relations Service, the only agency of its kind across the federal government whose sole mission is a peacemaker. We don't investigate. We don't prosecute. We don't carry guns or big bags or anything.
TUCKER: While healing is the first order of concern, the leadership of the NAACP understands that money often speaks louder than words. If the school administration cannot, or will not, see the error of its ways, says the NAACP, they could be putting federal funding for the school system at risk. EARNEST JOHNSON, NAACP: We want the school system to know, we know that a lot of federal dollars are coming into their parish. Now we would not want to do anything to hurt school children, white or black, but sometimes you have to do what has to be done in order to get people's attention.
TUCKER: The meeting in Coushatta is being styled as a town hall meeting with everyone in the community invited to attend.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: That meeting, of course, will be tomorrow night in Coushatta. Tonight here in Shreveport, Miss McCauley and her daughter are a guest at a reception that is being hosted by the Praise Temple Full Gospel Baptist Cathedral. There she is expected to get an opportunity, Lou, to meet with members of the family and speak with the children involved in the incident in Coushatta. Lou?
DOBBS: It sounds like, one hopes, a lot of healing is now under way in Coushatta. Thank you very much, Bill Tucker.
Still ahead, President Bush strongly defends his policies in the war on terror and the war in Iraq. Three of the country's very best political minds join me here.
And in heroes tonight, the story of two Navy Seals who gave the ultimate to save one of their comrades. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. President Bush on the offense against Colin Powell and Republicans who are breaking ranks. We'll take a closer look at his tough words in the Rose Garden. We'll get reaction from Democratic Senator Joe Biden.
Also, corruption and alcoholism. A U.S. Congressman pleads guilty and checks into rehab.
And a consumer crisis over Spinach. We'll get the latest on a deadly bacteria spreading rapidly across the country.
And the fight over skinny. A major fashion show bans overly thin models. Is this the future of the fashion world?
All that, Lou, coming up in the "THE SITUATION ROOM."
DOBBS: Thanks very much, Wolf. Joining me now, the very best political minds on television anywhere in this country. Former White House political director and Republican strategist, Ed Rollins, Michael Goodwin, columnist, "New York Daily News," Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman.
Gentlemen, good to have you with us. First, the president's very important news conference today. Why don't we serve up a softball right away? Robert, your reaction?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I still, I've never seen a presidential press conference as disorganized, as off message as this, and I think it's reflected by the fact that this president went, put his prestige and his presidency on the line, went down to Capitol Hill and was sent home empty-handed. I think it shows the complete collapse of confidence, that even the Republican Congress has in this White House.
Now, Ed Rollins was on the front lines during the Reagan years, and I don't think, Ed, you ever sent President Reagan to Capitol Hill without it working out on a successful agreement.
ED ROLLINS, FMR. W.H. POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I think the mistake, first of all, he wasn't sent packing. He went and visited House Republicans, who are very much in favor of what he wants to do. The critical thing here is I don't think you want to get in a public debate with some very significant senators and a very significant man like Colin Powell on a public issue like this, that the public doesn't really understand a whole lot about, but they understand those men being men of prestige.
I think you want to work it out behind the scenes and I think, at the end of the day, he can get it worked out behind the scenes. So, I think seven weeks to go on election, I think today was a press conference I would not have had.
DOBBS: Let's turn, Michael Goodwin, to some polling. The AP/IPSOS poll taken this week, registered voters choice for Congress breaks down this way, Democrats, 47 percent, Republicans, 35 percent. That was taken over the period September 11 through 13th. Does that suggest that Republicans are going down to defeat? That the Democrats are going to sweep the House or the Senate or both?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": No, I don't think it does. It certainly doesn't look good for Republicans, but I think there's time to go. I also think that, you know, as others have noted, these are races that are, you know, district by district, not national.
And I think the national polls don't really tell you, I think, specifically what's going on. I think the general consensus is there are maybe 35 or so seats in play. Democrats have to win at least 15 of them to take control of the House. They could, but I don't think it's a done deal yet.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, you know, one of the benefits we Democrats have is after the past six years, we don't suffer from overconfidence that easily. So these polls are encouraging, but the reality, and I would give fair warning to my Democrats around the country, the reality is these House races are going to be decided ultimately by the local field operation at work in each of the targeted districts. That's what's going to make the difference.
Obviously the momentum is in our favor. Obviously the country wants to change. Whether we can carry the message effectively or not is going to be determined by the local operations in each of those districts.
ROLLINS: If Republicans try to make this an election about the president's popularity or the war, they will not benefit. If they make it about local issues, let the White House fight their own battles and they got plenty of people to do that, but if they make it about local issues or how effective they've been or how good they can be on immigration or other issues, they will benefit and do well.
But I think the bottom line here is the president is trying to get his issues. He's trying to nationalize, the Democrats are trying to nationalize, not very well, and I think at the end of the day, members are now prepared to get it back, fight at home, get out my own vote and go forth.
ZIMMERMAN: Ed, it's too later for that.
GOODWIN: But I think there's a sleeper issue out there too, on a local level, and that is gasoline prices. And the way oil is falling and the way gasoline prices are starting to fall, if that continues even for a significant period, I think that will be a benefit to those who are trying to localize the race. That will be very good for Republicans.
ZIMMERMAN: I don't think George Bush is going to help the Republicans -- I don't think George Bush or the Republican Party have much support amongst the electorate if they are concerned about energy prices. This administration's idea of alternate source of energy is trying to find new places to drill for oil. They have been totally missing in action on this issue.
ROLLINS: The point I made is this is not an election about George Bush.
ZIMMERMAN: Ultimately it is.
ROLLINS: No, it isn't. You want to make it an election about George Bush.
ZIMMERMAN: He is helping us in that.
ROLLINS: Well, he may be helping you, but my point is, Republicans need to go run their own race. This is not a parliamentary system. He's not up or down. And at the end of the day, each member of Congress and each senator has to run their own race.
GOODWIN: And I think when Congress adjourns, which it will in less than two weeks now, I think then people will go home and individual congressmen will be left facing their constituents on a case by case basis. And I think it will take some of this focus off of Washington and off the president.
DOBBS: I want to share with you, if I may, this small award that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Union -- if we could show that -- this award for -- their first for Voice of Working America. And I want to thank them for that. But if that -- at their international convention, all right, I gave a few comments, talking about working people in this country. The pressures that are on middle-class families and those who aspire to it. I'm not hearing politicians, and not from the Democratic Party, certainly not from the Republican Party, talking about the very thing you are mentioning, which is gasoline prices, the absence of an energy policy, the crushing burden that's being placed on these folks. Why isn't that coming to the fore? Let's start with the Democratic Party.
ZIMMERMAN: OK. Me, too. On a congressional level, obviously, the Democrats are not in a position to bring these issues to the floor for a vote, even to get committee hearings on their proposals.
I'm not excusing the fact that we've got to be much more effective using our local bully pulpits to carry that message.
GOODWIN: But I think one answer to that, Lou, is that it's a very difficult problem to do anything about, and so no one stands up and makes a promise that they can't keep. And so they try to ignore the issue, but as you say...
DOBBS: They are making every other promise.
GOODWIN: Well, but on issues where this is one where people see it directly. There's no lag. People know it every day, and so I think the failure to even talk about it is a sign that they don't really know how to do it.
ROLLINS: As the son and grandson of an electrical worker, congratulations.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
ROLLINS: Now, I can't do any of that kind of stuff, so I've got to do this.
DOBBS: Well, I could, but I would pay a heavy benefit bill as a result.
ZIMMERMAN: But you know something, Lou, I think it's an important point, there are answers. Your show provides answers and provides a debate around these issues. That's why the award is so well deserved. But there have been very credible answers put forth by people like Congressman Peter King, who has been a very effective chairman of Homeland Security. He's put answers out there.
DOBBS: You know he's a Republican, don't you?
ZIMMERMAN: As a matter of fact, I know that very well. But the point is there are answers, and we've got to hear more of that from both parties.
ROLLINS: All right, he has to buy the drinks tonight.
DOBBS: Absolutely, without question. Robert, thank you very much. Michael. Ed, thank you.
ROLLINS: Thank you.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, our salute to "Heroes."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now, the results of our poll tonight: 95 percent of you do not believe torturing terror suspects is a more effective national security strategy than, say, securing our ports and borders.
Time now for some more of your thoughts.
Nancy in Tennessee -- "Lou, Saudi Arabia is building an electric fence on the border of Iraq to keep insurgents and terrorists out. Can someone relay this information to President Bush and politicians on how security should be done? Apparently, our government doesn't get it."
Vickie in Ohio: "Let's see if I have this straight. In this country, some can vote without documentation while I can't get my congresspeople to listen to me. Does that mean representation without taxation for illegal aliens and taxation without representation for U.S. citizens?"
Ricardo in California: "Lou, I'm in favor of the war on Islamic fascists, but now I'm confused. We don't bomb cemeteries in honor of the dead, but we do bomb cities to kill the living?"
Mike in Wyoming: "Lou, when in the hell is this government going to learn that we are not fighting a moral war? It is kill or be killed!"
Rick in California: "Seriously, is this not the most transparent tactic of the U.S. attempting to show that it has compassion and morals? Why else would that photograph be released?"
Martin in Michigan -- "I have a son in Iraq. Every time we speak, he and the rest of his Marine unit wonder where the support for the troops went. No more flags flying, no more yard signs. They still deserve our support, even though we have little or no support for our government. Lou, you always ask the tough questions and say what you feel. Support our troops."
I do, and I believe just about everyone I know does. And I'll tell you this -- that flag is always flying in my yard.
Each of you whose e-mail is read here, receives a copy of Senator Byron Dorgan's book, "Take This Job and Ship It." Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com.
Now, "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the men and women in uniform who serve this country. Tonight, the story of two U.S. Navy Seals who fought to the death against radical Islamist terrorists in Afghanistan to save one of their own. Petty Officer Matthew Axelson and Petty Officer Danny Dietz were posthumously awarded the Navy Cross. Lisa Sylvester has their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That trident is a symbol of honor and heritage, bestowed upon me by the heroes who have gone before.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sonar technician second class Matthew Axelson and gunners mate second class Danny Dietz were part of the elite Navy Seals team. Their widows accepted the Navy Cross on their behalf.
DONALD WINTER, U.S. NAVY SECRETARY: Petty Officer Matthew Axelson, Petty Officer Danny Dietz, a grateful nation salutes you. Heroes in life, and reminders in death of the price of freedom.
SYLVESTER: June, 2005, Axelson and Dietz were part of a team of four Seals on a reconnaissance mission in the mountains of Afghanistan, tracking a key Taliban leader. A fierce gun battle broke out. Outnumbered five to one, they radioed for help, but the Chinook helicopter that carried reinforcements was shot down by a rocket- propelled grenade, killing 16 more U.S. troops. Wounded, Axelson and Dietz fought on, allowing a third member of their team to escape, giving their life to another.
Both men were remembered for the imprint they left on their families and fellow Navy Seals, whose names and ranks we withheld for reasons of national security.
FRIEND OF MATT AXELSON, U.S. NAVY: I asked him one night why after graduating college and all of the endless possibilities he had, why he decided to join the Seal teams. And he replied that he just thought he had more to offer at that point in his life, and what better way to do it than to serve his country.
SYLVESTER: Role models on and off the battlefield, both were young husbands. Dietz, 25; Axelson, 29. Extremely accomplished men, who walked through life humbly.
MARIA "PATSY" DIETZ, WIFE OF DANNY DIETZ: I think he would just want to be remembered by who he was, you know, a person who was equal to everybody, a person who loved life, a person who had a passion for his job.
FRIEND OF DANNY DIETZ, U.S. NAVY: I don't think heroes are people who have supernatural strength and abilities. Heroes are normal people who make extraordinary decisions every day of their lives.
SYLVESTER: Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here Monday. Have a great weekend. Thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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