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Lou Dobbs Tonight
White House Publicly Admitted U.S. Has Little Leverage Over North Korea After Nuclear Weapons Test; U.N. and North Korea; Baghdad Rocked By Series Of Explosions At U.S. Ammunition Dump; Rising Number Of Casualties Raising New Questions About Military's Iraq Strategy; Watchdog Group Unveiling Congressional Junkets Online; Reynolds' Senate Seat Threatened; Border Fence's Construction in Doubt; Catholic Church Bracing for Firestorm Over Sex Abuse Allegations; Interview with Duncan Hunter; Robert Kagan Discusses New Book
Aired October 10, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you. Tonight, the United States says it will not be intimated by communist North Korea but what in the world is the Bush administration doing to stop North Korea's nuclear weapons program. We'll have complete coverage for you tonight.
And American casualties in Iraq are rising sharply. The number of our troops wounded in Iraq has risen to the highest level in nearly two years. We'll have that special report and a great deal more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. News, debate and opinion for Tuesday, October 10. Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. The United States tonight is struggling to develop a new policy to contain communist North Korea and its nuclear ambitions. The White House today publicly admitted to United States has little, if any, leverage over North Korea after Pyongyang's first nuclear weapon's test.
White House press secretary Tony Snow said communist China, Japan and South Korea all have more influence over Pyongyang than the United States.
Communist China's ambassador to the United Nations today indicated Beijing may support some limited sanctions against North Korea. But China said any military action against North Korea would be unimaginable.
Suzanne Malveaux reports tonight from the White House on the Bush administration's efforts to develop a new policy on North Korea. Richard Roth reports from the United Nations tonight on whether the Security Council will support tough sanctions against Pyongyang and Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon on the rising number of our troops being killed and wounded in Iraq.
We turn first to Suzanne Malveaux at the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, clearly the policy now is not working. But the Bush administration insists if it can convince North Korea's neighbors to take a tougher stand against the regime, that ultimately the United States is going to be able to change the position and the behavior of North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): For decades, the United States has tried to dissuade North Korea from becoming a nuclear state, using threats, sanctions and sweet talk. But North Korea's apparent nuclear test Sunday proved the U.S. has failed. Secretary of state Condoleezza Rice with CNN's Wolf Blitzer says don't blame us.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: North Korea has been persistent and had been consistent in pursuing that nuclear weapons program for decades. Now it's going to have to be stopped. No one's been able to reverse this program over decades.
MALVEAUX: In fact, the White House spin now is ...
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The accountability lies in North Korea, not in Washington.
MALVEAUX: The fight over how North Korea morphed into a potential nuclear state has erupted along partisan lines. Republican Senator John McCain blasted the Clinton administration for North Korea offering incentives to abandon its nuclear ambitions which ultimately failed.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We had a carrots and no sticks policy that only encouraged bad behavior. When one carrot didn't work, we offered another. Now we are facing the consequences of the failed Clinton administration policies.
MALVEAUX: Clinton's former assistant defense secretary fired back.
ASHTON CARTER, FORMER ASSISTANT DEFENSE SECRETARY: The fact of the matter is that through the 1990s, North Korea didn't make any nuclear weapons. I don't think this is a matter of -- which all started in the first administration of George Bush's father.
MALVEAUX: But some nuclear weapons experts say the failure to prevent North Korea from pursuing a nuclear bomb can be attributed to this and past administrations.
JOHN WOLFSTHAL, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: I would argue that either consistent confrontation or consistent diplomacy could have succeeded. But that the oscillation between engagement, between carrots and sticks I think has ultimately led to - or contributed to the failure of American policy.
MALVEAUX: At the heart of American policy, American credibility. Analysts say because the U.S. continues to move the red line, North Korea no longer takes its threats seriously.
WOLFSTHAL: Time and again, the Bush administration has said that a nuclear North Korea is unacceptable. And yet time and time again, when North Korea demonstrates that capability, we show that in fact it is acceptable. We are living with it today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: So, Lou, for now, the Bush administration is defining success as simply being able to rally North Korea's neighbors to try to impose and get tough sanctions, tougher sanctions on that regime -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, any optimism at the White House tonight that that proxy approach will work?
MALVEAUX: Well, they're going to try here. But it certainly is up in the air. They feel that they have made some progress, they've moved forward a bit with China, a bit with Russia. But they really do believe that this is going to take some time to convince those allies that this tough way is the way to go. But ultimately, Lou, people say quietly that they really have very little choice in the matter what to do next.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you very much. Suzanne Malveaux from the White House.
A U.S. government official today told CNN North Korea's nuclear weapons test may have been a failure. The official said North Korea told communist China that test would involve a four kiloton nuclear device but the United States says the blast was much less powerful, the equivalent of only a few hundred pounds of TNT.
The official also raised the possibility that North Korea could soon conduct a second nuclear test.
Diplomats at the United Nations tonight are considering a U.S. propose for a broad range of economic sanctions against North Korea.
Communist China's ambassador to the United Nations said Pyongyang must face punitive actions. But he said those actions must be appropriate without elaboration. Richard Roth reports from the United Nations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): North Korea's U.N. ambassador represents a country which likes to keep everybody off balance. But this time, U.N. Security Council powers appear to have had enough. The U.S. and Japan are bringing diplomatic heat. A sanctions package aimed at the arsenal of Kim Jong-il.
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: These sanctions are aimed at the North Korean program of weapons of mass destruction. Nuclear, chemical, biological. Their ballistic missile program. And their other illicit activities. The sale of drugs through diplomatic pouches. Counterfeiting our money.
ROTH: The proposed resolution includes arms embargoes, asset freezes, and a travel ban on government leaders. North Korea's lifeline is neighbor China, a country worried if sanctions should put a further bite on the impoverished nation that millions of refugees would head their way.
Ambassador John Bolton held a private meeting at one point with his Chinese counterpart. China had said it wouldn't protect North Korea if it tested a nuke. But now maybe a tougher sale on the stringent parts of the resolution.
WANG GUANGYA, CHINESE AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I think there had to be some punitive actions. But also I think these actions have to be appropriate.
ROTH: It's early in the negotiating. Not surprisingly diplomats say there are differences on specifics. Ambassador Bolton said he thought discussions went better than he would have predicted days ago. The consensus is to react quickly to the North Korean test.
KENZO OSHIMA, JAPANESE AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I think there is general understanding also about the need to get our act together and fast. And that we agree to.
ROTH: And for the country on the other end of any sanctions.
PAK GIL YON, NORTH KOREAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: In any way sanctions will not solve the problems at all. It is my view.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: France and some others are worried that sanctions will have more of an impact on the people of North Korea rather than the leadership. Ambassador Bolton rejects that idea. The U.S. is going to have to hope it can get China and Russia aboard. It will with a test on how tough those two countries want to be on Pyongyang -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you, Richard. Richard Roth from the U.N..
The United Nations also tonight struggling to respond to Iran's nuclear defiance. Iran's leaders today declared their nuclear program will continue without fear and without retreat, as they put it. The United States, Europe, Russia and communist China have agreed in principle to punish Iran for not suspending its nuclear program. But the U.N. Security Council so far has failed on agree to a resolution to introduce sanctions.
Turning to the war in Iraq, Baghdad tonight rocked by a series of huge explosions at a U.S. ammunition dump. That fire and the explosions broke out in an American outpost in the southern part of the Iraqi capital. Arwa Damon now reports from Baghdad -- Arwa.
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Lou. That's right. There were massive explosions that were heard right where we're standing. In fact, the building I'm standing on, we could feel it shaking for about two hours. The explosions actually began at 11:00 and are continuing up till now about two hours later.
What we do know from the U.S. military is that a fire broke out at an ammunitions storage area on a U.S. military base in southern Baghdad. This apparently was a location that held both tank and artillery round, other ordnance to include small arms rounds as well.
The explosions were huge and what we do know right now, too, is that the U.S. military is saying that it has safely evacuated all coalition and civilian individuals on that base. They are not reporting any casualties. They're saying right now that they're just going to let the fire burn off. They're going to let all this ammunition cook off as it may.
For the Iraqi civilian population in that area, an incredibly petrifying night. In fact, the Iraqi minister of interior, Zowad Bolani (ph) just came on al-Iraqiya, that is the state run channel here in Iraq trying to assure the Iraqi civilians and explain to them what was happening, especially for those living in that area. To hear such explosions at such a time at night, one can only imagine what those families were going through.
The Iraqis as well, though, are not reporting any casualties at this time. It does seem that at the end of a very petrifying night where we heard explosions all across the capital, you can hear helicopters flying above me right now, it could have just been a case of a fire starting in an ammunition dump causing a lot of fear, but hopefully very few casualties, Lou.
DOBBS: That outpost, Arwa, a base for -- maintained at least by a company of U.S. soldiers. Do we have any idea about casualties? Do we have any idea, you suggested it could be as simple as a fire. But do we know what caused these explosions?
DAMON: At this point, Lou, we do not. We don't know what caused the fire. What we do know is that it started at 11:40 and we are right now four miles away from that location and we felt the first explosion at about 11 p.m., 20 minutes after that. In fact we just felt another one right now as I was speaking to. It is home to a few hundred U.S. troops but right now, no casualties, Lou.
DOBBS: All right. Arwa Damon, thank you very much. And again, the video that we're looking at here has just come in to CNN. This video now, as you see those fires raging, those fires raging at that U.S. ammo dump. We do not know the cause. We do have reports that there are no casualties and we'll be bringing the latest to you just as soon as we determine what is going on and what caused these explosions. Thank you, Arwa Damon. Reporting from Baghdad.
Insurgents in Iraq have killed another of our soldiers. The soldier was killed in the city of Tikrit north of Baghdad. Thirty-two of our troops have been killed in Iraq so far this month. Most of them in al Anbar province and in Baghdad.
Two-thousand, seven-hundred forty-six of our troops have now been killed in this war. The number of troops being wounded in Iraq has risen sharply. Twenty-thousand, six-hundred eighty-seven of our troops have been wounded, 9,352 of them seriously. The rising number of casualties is raising new questions about the military's entire strategy in this war. Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of U.S. troops being wounded in Iraq has risen to the highest level in nearly two years. In the last nine days alone, 234 U.S. troops have been wounded.
SEN. JOHN WARNER, (R) ARMED SERVICES CHAIRMAN: We take distressing tolls of loss of life and limb every day.
STARR: Last month, 776 troops were wounded. That is the most since the fighting in Fallujah in November 2004, when more than 1,400 troops were wounded.
Battlefield trauma units are filling up because the updated protective gear is helping the troops survive. The rate of mortality has been cut in half since Vietnam.
There is pressure for a new direction in the war. Former secretary of state James Baker is co-chairing a study group that will report to Congress on security problems and what might be done.
Officially, military strategy remains unchanged. Iraqi forces stand up, U.S. forces stand down.
MARK KIMMITT, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: First and foremost, we've got to have the patience and persistence to see this through.
STARR: Privately, several military commanders are expressing their concerns that the plan just isn't working.
COL. DOUG MACGREGOR, U.S. ARMY (RET): No one wants to step forward and admit to the fact that this has been an enormous mistake.
STARR: If stay the course becomes unattainable, what are the alternatives? Sending in more troops has little political support.
WARNER: I do not recommend that we try and send more troops from the United States to add to those that are over there right now.
STARR: But talk of bringing the troops home underscores how tough things have become.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The situation will only get worse if we back out and turn this over to ill prepared police, ill prepared government and an ill prepared military.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: But, Lou, make no mistake, this war is becoming increasingly lethal for American troops. IEDs, those improvised explosive devices, do remain the number one killer and cause of casualties for the troops. Nearly 1,000 U.S. troops killed and 11,000 wounded in IED attacks since the war began, Lou?
DOBBS: Barbara, thank you. Barbara Starr with that sobering report from the Pentagon tonight. Coming up here, more on communist North Korea's rising nuclear menace. Has U.S. policy against Pyongyang failed altogether? The powerful chairman of the House Armed Service Committee, Congressman Duncan Hunter will join us here.
Also tonight, sharply rising concerns about the threat to our election system from e-voting machines, just four weeks ahead of us, we'll have that story.
And new evidence tonight about the scale of corporate America's efforts to buy favors from Congress. Our special report coming up next. The best government money can buy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We go to the polls exactly four weeks from tonight. There's new evidence that the integrity of our midterm elections may be at risk because of problems with electronic voting machines. Kitty Pilgrim tonight reports on the e-voting aftermath in one Florida county, the latest to be hit with major problems with the new systems.
Bill Schneider reports from West Palm Beach, Florida where local officials are saying not to expect election results very soon after the polls close. Both sides lining up legions of lawyers ready to challenge election night numbers.
We begin with Kitty Pilgrim -- Kitty.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, this November, many counties will use touch screen electronic voting machines for the first time ever. The trial run for many of them was their primary. In one Florida county, the problems were not apparent during or even right after the primary. They turned up later.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (voice-over): Primary day, September 5th, was the first time Volusia County, Florida used touch screen voting machines without a paper record. The local community newspaper wanted the vote tallies from the election headquarters but found its request stalled.
BARB SHEPHERD, PUBLISHER, DELANO-DELTONA BEACON: We considered this just basic election information of a nature that we had never had particular trouble in getting before. One thing I think is very important to consider is as elections get more electronic, records become more computerized. I don't think that we can allow that to take those records out of the reach of the ordinary citizens who need to see them.
PILGRIM: The local newspaper ended up filing a lawsuit because they were asked to pay more than $100 for the records. When the records were finally released, several problems turned up. They were issues the public and candidates found out to late to contest the results.
SUSAN PINCHON, FLORIDA FAIR ELECTIONS COALITION: The supervisor of elections just kept saying they weren't ready yet. Meanwhile, the contest of election period expired on September 22nd and that's the date those records were finally released.
PILGRIM: Final vote tallies are recorded on a central location on tape. After sorting through the tapes, the local newspaper says, the tally tapes for the voting machines in at least seven precincts were missing. County officials said poll workers either failed to print them or threw them out.
And in more than a dozen precincts, the tapes had been interrupted for an incomplete picture of the voting. The only records for the optical scan machines were printed 16 days after the election. The election supervisor says everything balances. She responded as quickly as she could. She gets several hundred public record requests a year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The newspaper says the records were missing and muddled. There was no way to verify the initial results. Now Florida does not require a paper trail and many think that is the only way to properly monitor results of an election -- Lou.
DOBBS: One would think, Kitty. Thank you very much.
No state stands as more of a symbol of flawed elections than the State of Florida. The Supreme Court ultimately weighed in on Florida's flawed counting of votes in the 2000 presidential election. This year, both sides are preparing for any controversy. Bill Schneider reports from West Palm Beach. Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Lou, it's one month to election day and the last day for new voters to register here in Florida and in 13 other states. Let the controversies begin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Remember the Florida recount six years ago? Hanging chads, butterfly ballots, lawsuits. 2006 could be another endless election, where the day after Election Day, we still won't know who won. For one thing, this election could be very close with control of the House and Senate coming down to one or two seats. For another thing, we're already hearing controversy over new voting procedures like touch screen voting and paper trails.
BOB BENENSON, CQ.COM: Because if they're close, there are going to be protests and if there are protests, they're going to be based on some argument of irregularity and in a lot of cases it's going to be based on these now techniques and technologies.
SCHNEIDER: Neither side wants to be outlawyered, as many Democrats feel they were in 2000.
DEB MARKOWITZ, VERMONT SECRETARY OF STATE: In the targeted areas where there's targeted races, the political parties are getting teams of lawyers ready to go in. SCHNEIDER: There's concern about the security of the voting equipment.
KAY CLEM, INDIAN RIVER ELECTION SUPERVISOR: Everything is under 24/7 video surveillance so people can't access the equipment. We have pass codes that only certain people can get into the tabulation room.
SCHNEIDER: The biggest problem may be human error as we learned in this year's primaries.
BENENSON: Most of our elections are run by volunteers. And training them and making sure they know how the technology works.
SCHNEIDER: Plus issues involving who actually votes.
MARKOWITZ: It's the obligation of every person involved in running our elections to make sure that it's easy to vote and hard to cheat.
SCHNEIDER: A delicate balance and fertile ground for lawsuits. It's not Halloween yet but here's another scary scenario. Let's say the Senate ends up with 50 Democrats and 49 Republicans and Joe Lieberman gets elected in Connecticut as an independent. Lieberman could decide which party controls the Senate, because if he then goes Republican and you have a 50/50 tie, the tie-breaking vote would be in the hands of Vice President Cheney.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Lieberman has pledged that he'll caucus with the Democrats. But the Republicans might make him a very attractive offer and remind him that the Democrats fired him in the Connecticut primary. This could get very interesting -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider from West Palm Beach. That brings us to our poll tonight.
The question, how confident are you that your vote will count in the upcoming midterm elections? Very, somewhat, not much, not at all. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. Results coming right up.
Fallout from the Foley scandal hits a New York congressional race. We'll have that report.
Special interests picking up the tab for congressional junkets. One group wants the public to know just who's paying and who's receiving.
That 700-mile border fence may never be built. We'll find out who's dropping the ball, as it were.
And a new documentary raises questions about a cardinal's role in a California sex abuse scandal. That report and more coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: New ways tonight to track the money and the perks your congressman receives from special interests. A Washington watchdog group is unveiling congressional junkets online. Lisa Sylvester has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): July 2005, Republican Congressman Hal Rogers went to Dublin, Ireland for 10 days with his wife. That trip cost 12,383. The next month they did a long weekend in San Francisco, $2,218. January, 2006, Kona, Hawaii for seven days, $7,209.
But the Kentucky congressman did not pay for those trips. They were courtesy of the American Association of Airport Executives. Rogers was attending aviation security conferences. New databases from the Center for Responsive Politics tracks congressional finances and travel paid by special interest groups.
SHEILA KRUMHOLZ, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: Travel offers an opportunity for those sponsors to pitch their side of the story and only their side of the story. So it's really critical for voters -- the public at large to pay attention to how money flows through politics.
SYLVESTER: Rogers says the trips were in compliance with ethics rules and said as lead budget writer for aviation security interests, he would be "derelict in his duties by not attending these sessions."
But the junkets raise eyebrows when congressional members are being wined and dined by the industries that they oversee. The Consumer Electronics Association spent nearly $127,000 to fly 61 congressional staffers and eight lawmakers to Las Vegas for their annual show.
Republican Representative John Doolittle and his daughter were hosted by the Korean and Malaysian exchange councils. The nine-day trip topped more than $29,000 or more than $3,000 a day. Democratic Congressman Solomon Ortiz took a $22,000 fact-finding trip to Asia paid by a law firm. His office says it was for economic development purposes.
FRED WERTHEIMER, DEMOCRACY 21: Whoever is putting up these large sums to pay for members of congress' travel, to provide financial perks, they're going to get special treatment in return.
SYLVESTER: When the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal broke, Congress promised to clean up its act and rein in these special interest junkets. But nothing was done. And the lavish trips continue.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Representative Doolittle did not return our calls for comment. Now congressional travel data is available at opensecrets.org. You can also find there another database that details personal finances of lawmakers, what stock they hold and look up any possible conflicts of interest.
Now, congressional members are not exactly strapped for cash. At least 35 percent of them are millionaires compared to only one percent of the American population -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you. And the public owes a debt to the Center for Responsive Policy and we're going to put up on our Web site a link directly to opensecrets.org. And there's the Web site up on the screen. Opensecrets.org.
Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much. Reporting live from Washington.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
Joe in Georgia: "Lou, the world just became 100 times more dangerous because of the Bush administration's failure to deal with North Korea. While Bush was off chasing non-existent nukes in Iraq, North Korea was building them."
Paula in Texas: "Lou, can you tell me why I should not be outraged to find out that my son and his fellow military personnel are receiving the lowest 2.2 percent pay raise for their efforts in Iraq, and yet the grand ol' body in Congress passes a hidden expense of $20 million for 2007 Victory party for the successes in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now that is just an outrage. My son just returned from Iraq and I pray he doesn't have to go back. He might miss the party."
Wanda in Georgia: " Lou, for the past few days, I've seen spinach recalled, ground beef and now lettuce. This is telling me something, and I'm not sure what to make of it. I feel that someone is doing something to our food chain. Does anyone else feel the same way as I do? Just a thought."
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. More of your thoughts are coming up here later. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my new book, "War on the Middle Class".
And please join us next Wednesday, October 18th, for a LOU DOBBS TONIGHT special report, "War on the Middle Class," 7:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. That's next Wednesday.
Coming up next, Washington may have given the green light to a fence on the Mexican border, but there are signs tonight, you won't believe this, it just might not ever happen. We'll have that special report.
And fallout from the Foley scandal may cost a powerful Republican Congressman his seat. His story coming up.
And more questions tonight about Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony, questions about whether he turned a blind eye to sexual abuse by one of his priests.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The fallout from the Foley scandal widens tonight. Cover up and you'll be fired. That's what Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert says will happen to any of his staff members who have withheld information about Mark Foley's e-mail and messages to House pages. The Speaker added that his office could have handled the issue better.
The FBI is expected to interview Jordan Edmund, the former congressional page who may have received suggestive electronic messages from Foley, Edmund's attorney said today. Edmund, now working on the Oklahoma gubernatorial campaign, was a minor when that electronic exchange was alleged to have taken place.
Kirk Fordham, a former top aide to Mark Foley, will testify before the House Ethics Committee. And Fordham will address the Committee in a closed committee Thursday. Fordham resigned last week from his post as chief of staff to New York Congressman Tom Reynolds. Reynolds has apologized to his constituents for not doing more after he found out about Foley's e-mail messages.
Foley fallout appears to be benefiting his Democrat challenger in the New York Congressional race. Jack Davis has campaigned hard ever since he lost to incumbent Congressman Tom Reynolds two years ago. Central to the Davis platform, saving American jobs. Before the Foley scandal, Reynolds had raised nearly $3 million for his campaign. In contrast, Davis raised only $16,000, but he did loan himself some $2 million of his own money.
Mary Snow is in Amherst New York tonight. She has the latest on the race -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, here in the suburb of Buffalo, this race is being so closely watched because Congressman Reynolds is in charge of getting Republicans into Congress and getting re-elected. This week, over the airwaves, it is clear the Foley scandal is dominating the issues here.
Congressman Reynolds' campaign spent some $200,000 to run ads this week, that you just mentioned, in which the Congressman apologizes that more hadn't been done after first learning about an e- mail exchange between Mark Foley and a former page.
Tonight, his Democratic challenger, Jack Davis, is out with ads of his own, charging a Republican cover-up. The Foley issue has put Davis ahead in a local poll by double-digits in the lead. And many say, though, that this race had been competitive even before the Foley scandal.
Davis is a businessman who has really put an emphasis on saving jobs in this big area where manufacturing jobs have been lost. He's been outspoken against outsourcing. He's also proposed a tariff on Chinese-made goods. And one other thing is that he has an endorsement from the unions; the UAW and the AFL-CIO have both backed him in this race, as they did in 2004. But observers say one big difference this time around is that Davis is pledging to spend $2 million of his own money, which is more than he did two years -- Lou. DOBBS: Mary, thank you very much. May Snow reporting from Amherst, New York tonight.
In Mexico tonight, protest leaders and officials of the Mexican government have reached an agreement to end the occupation of Oaxaca. Thousands of protesters marched toward Mexico City to bring attention to what they call corrupt practices of the local provincial government. Activists in Oaxaca shut the center of that city down for four months, hoping to force the resignation of the regional governor.
Seven illegal aliens were pulled from an underground storm drain as they tried to cross the U.S. border from Mexico. Border Patrol surveillance cameras spotted the illegal aliens as they entered the drain on the Mexican side. When asked if all seven were illegal, a San Diego police spokeswoman said, if they had any papers, they wouldn't have been coming in through a drain. Pretty straightforward.
Earlier this month, leading members of Congress visited the very same area to celebrate new legislation to build the 700-mile long border fence along our 2,000-mill border with Mexico. And just before recess, Congress passed that Secure Border Fence Bill. Now, less than a week and a half later, a lot of people are wondering whether that fence will in fact be built. They're asking if passage of the bill is simply a cheap political stunt ahead of the elections.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The yeas are 80. The nays are 19. The bill is passed.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congress declared 700 miles of fence shall be built along the board with Mexico. But Congress seems to have a credibility problem. Lots of people don't believe the fence will be built. The first issue those critics point to is funding, $1.2 billion. Even supporters in Congress admit that is not enough to pay for 700 miles of fencing.
JIM GILCHRIST, FOUNDER, MINUTEMAN PROJECT: Without the money, you cannot purchase the resources nor the manpower and womanpower to get the wall and the fence erected. Therefore, there will never be a fence or a wall.
TUCKER: The founder of the Minutemen Project is not alone in his skepticism. The head of the Border Patrol Union is equally cynical. quote, "This Administration's commitment to building a border fence is as insincere and illusory as its commitment to securing our Nation's borders."
In addition to the lack of funding, there's some last minute add- ons to the bill in the form of a letter from Senate Majority Leader Frist and House Speaker Hastert. The letter promises that state officials, local officials and Native American tribes will be given say in where the fence goes. It, in addition, promises the Department of Homeland Security has the flexibility to decide if an actual physical fence is necessary, or a technological one will suffice.
While the bill is being denounced as an election gimmick by many, one member of the House Appropriations Committee wants to make one thing very clear.
REP. JOHN CULBERSON (R), TEXAS: I'm focused, I'm fed up, and I'm going to do everything in my power as an appropriator to make sure that these homeland security officials secure that border, enforce immigration law, or they don't get paid.
TUCKER: Adding fuel to the fire, Mexico has weighed in on this issue, again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And this time, it was Mexico's foreign secretary speaking in Paris, where Lou, he threatened to drag the United States of America before the United Nations in order to stop that fence from being built along our border.
DOBBS: Well, it can't get much better than that or perhaps I should say much worse. Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
The Catholic Church is bracing for a potential firestorm over news evidence about sex abuse by its priests. A new film alleges that Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony covered up cases of child molestation. Some say that film could lead to criminal charges. Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The church has betrayed me and my family.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Those are among the explosive allegations in the new documentary film "Deliver Us From Evil." It tells the disturbing story of Oliver O'Grady, a former Catholic priest who admits to abusing dozens of children in California over more than two decades.
OLIVER O'GRADY, FORMER CATHOLIC PRIEST: Hugging starts off and then I might just drop my hands and start fondling the genital area.
WIAN: And it tells the story of how O'Grady's supervisor, former Stockton bishop and now Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony allegedly allowed the abuse to continue by moving the pedophile priest from parish to parish.
John Manley is an attorney representing 80 alleged victims of Catholic priests, including O'Grady. He conducted a videotaped deposition of Cardinal Mahony in 2004, that plays a prominent role in the film.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had sexual urges towards a 9-year-old, or a 10-year-old, or an 11-year-old. Is that cause to remove him from ministry?
ROGER MAHONY, CARDINAL: No.
WIAN: Manley says statements like that in the film are likely to increase pressure on Los Angeles prosecutors to charge Cardinal Mahony with a cover up.
JOHN MANLEY, ATTORNEY FOR ABUSE VICTIMS: If they have the evidence to charge him, they should, because this man has presided over the wholesale emotional slaughter of dozens and dozens of little boys and little girls under his control and it's just wrong.
WIAN: The Los Angeles district attorney's office would not comment, other than to confirm a criminal investigation is ongoing. The documentary was produced by former CNN freelance producer Amy Berg. Most of the allegations in it were reported as early as 2004 by CNN investigative correspondent Drew Griffin.
But people who have seen the film say its impact today remains powerful and disturbing because of its graphic, lengthy interview with former priest O'Grady.
O'GRADY: Would you feel arousal to children, and I said well maybe. How about children in underwear? I'd say yes, you know? How about if you thought you saw children naked? And I said, yes.
WIAN: A spokesman for Cardinal Mahony accuses CNN of conflict of interest in covering the film and further states, "This film is primarily based on anti-church assertions by plaintiff's attorneys who stand to gain financially and on the self-serving comments of O'Grady, a sick twisted monster."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: O'Grady served seven years in prison for his crimes. Meanwhile, Cardinal Mahony remains in charge of the nation's largest Roman Catholic archdiocese, Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much -- Casey Wian reporting from Los Angeles.
Still ahead here tonight, a powerful congressional leader says U.S. military options should remain on the table against a nuclear North Korea. Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee Congressman Duncan Hunter joins us. And historian Robert Kagan says the United States has paid a high price for major strategic errors in the occupation and reconstruction of Iraq. We'll be talking about Iraq and North Korea next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The United States has failed to stop communist North Korea from testing a nuclear device. Now the Bush administration is struggling to develop a new policy to contain North Korea's nuclear ambition.
Joining us now from California is the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Duncan Hunter. Congressman, let me ask you -- first of all -- first, let me say thank you for being here.
Secondly, this administration, the president, the secretary of state, the ambassador to the United Nations have used the words, provocative, provocation, unacceptable, intolerable when speaking of a nuclear North Korea. North Korea is now nuclear. Why in the world would this administration, this government put us in the position of looking like an outright paper tiger on this issue?
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), CHMN, ARMED SERVICE CMTE: Well, one name, Kim Jong-il. And Lou, nobody in the world, no diplomat, no world leader has been able to effectively persuade Kim Jong-il to do anything. He's unstable. He's going to totally confound a large bevy of highly educated American diplomats.
What we have to do right now is pursue two courses. One course is to try to do effective sanctions against his country. But I think at the same time, we have to be realistic and understand that so far, sanctions haven't work. He's not going to give up the nuclear program. And I think we need to move aggressively in terms of building a sea-based interceptor capability on our AEGIS destroyers so we can picket North Korea at a time when they have a capability of launching long-range missiles.
DOBBS: And I know you made that recommendation to the president itself. It also is a defensive move. It is also perhaps an absolutely necessary move that will take some time. But the fact of the matter is that the United States has invested its credibility before world leaders around the globe, and we have been rebuffed. It is -- is it not troubling to you in Congress, leading a very important committee, that this administration would put the United States in that kind of position?
HUNTER: Well, Lou, you've had leaders in the past who have been -- who have totally rebuffed western efforts to get them to change their attitude. Nobody was able to convince Adolf Hitler to put down his guns. Nobody was able to change the North Koreans in 1950.
DOBBS: But the more recent example, Mr. Chairman, would be Ahmadinejad in Iran, where again, we have put forward very strong rhetoric, suggesting that -- stating straight-forwardly that a nuclear Iran is not acceptable and we have, again, been told by the Iranian leadership and the United Nations as well, as in the case with North Korea, that they're going to defy us?
HUNTER: Well so what you have, Lou, is what I call this grand canyon between diplomatic efforts which often don't work. And that includes economic sanctions and other things. And the other side of the grand canyon, which is military operation.
The same people who would complain vociferously against the Bush administration not persuading Kim Jong-il to lay down his nuke program would complain bitterly if we took real military action -- that is maybe took a preemptive strike against some of those facilities. We lost a lot of marines and a lot of soldiers on those high ridges of the Korean peninsula. Americans remember that. DOBBS: We're losing a lot of marines and soldiers in Iraq, as you well know. And those casualty rates are rising. We're hearing more from the general staff, active general officers who are questioning clearly the leadership of Donald Rumsfeld and the president. It's straight forward. I need your reaction. We've got very little time, but I would like to have your reaction because the record now is very clear. There is mounting dissent within the general staff about the conduct of this war.
HUNTER: Well, all wars have -- if it's a healthy system, Lou, all wars have lots of dissent because you've got real smart people with pretty impressive egos who have different positions.
Here's where I think we need to go. We've been training up the Iraqi military. And I think it was right that we didn't keep the old military in place with 10,000 Sunni generals. I think training up the new military has been the right way to go.
DOBBS: Congressman, I wasn't asking that. What I'm really asking is, what is the impact and how concerned are you about the fact that there hasn't been a single general fired in this war, three and a half years after its beginning and the difficulties that we're now facing, the mounting casualties we're taking, and the general staff is expressing great misgivings?
HUNTER: Well, Lou, if you go over to Iraq, as a lot of us have, and I know lots of folks in your operation have been very closely embedded with those troops, we have superb people leading our forces in Iraq, including some of the people who are dissenting in terms of how the operation's been undertaken.
My point is that we've stood up two aspects of Iraq. One is the government. The other is the military structure. When we stand that military structure up and we think that they are trained to their max, it's going to be their duty to carry that burden, that operational burden of securing their country.
At that point, we leave. We don't guarantee freedom and perpetuity to any country. And so we've given them a running star at freedom, and you know something, Lou? There are going to be bumps. There are going to be bruises. I've always said there will always be explosions going off in that country, just as explosions are still going off in Israel. You can't stop that with money or resources.
If they are an ally of the United States instead of an enemy and they're not going to be a state that sponsors terrorism, that accrues to the benefit of generations of Americans. You can't put it on a bumper strip. It has value. So we stand up our troops, we train them and we hand this thing over.
DOBBS: Your counterpart in the Senate, John Warner, says we've got to the end of the year to assess this and look beyond simply stay the course. Do you agree or disagree ...
HUNTER: Well ...
DOBBS: ...with John Warner?
HUNTER: Well, I don't know what John means by stay the course. I say when we hand off, when we finish the train up of the Iraqi forces, at that point we hand it off to them.
DOBBS: Congressman, I appreciate you being here. I appreciate it. Thank you.
HUNTER: Thank you.
DOBBS: Congressman Duncan Hunter.
Up next, we'll take a look at America's global policies from North Korea to Iraq. I'll be joined by historian, columnist, author Robert Kagan. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Communist North Korea's nuclear weapons test, a dangerous new threat to world and national security. My next guest says communist China could shut down North Korea should it wish to do so, Robert Kagan, one of the country's most distinguished historians and brightest political commentators, author of "Dangerous Nation," a provocative new study of this country's rise to global leadership.
Good to have you with us, Robert.
ROBERT KAGAN, AUTHOR, "DANGEROUS NATION": Thank you.
DOBBS: Tony Snow today said -- and I think it's worth -- if we could, I'd like to share this with everyone. He had this to say about North Korea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
T. SNOW: And the United States and the allies, working together, trying to figure out what is the proper way and the effective way, diplomatically, to put leverage on the government of North Korea. And let's face it -- the Chinese, the South Koreans, the Japanese, they all have more direct leverage over the North Koreans than we do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Robert, in that list of nations, only the Japanese are steadfast allies of the United States. South Korea often at odds with our policy even on the peninsula. What is there for the United States to do, despite all of the bellicose rhetoric emanating from this administration in the weeks leading up to the nuclearization of North Korea?
KAGAN: Well, I think the administration is certainly right to try to seize this opportunity, to see what can be accomplished if you get the Chinese and the South Koreans on board, and you do see both China and South Korea certainly talking, at this point, in a way that they haven't talked before. I don't blame the administration for focusing on that right now in the absence of any particularly good options.
DOBBS: The idea that bilateral talks would be more helpful because North Korea would prefer they be bilateral than six party talks, it seems this administration has been criticized almost uniformly and for years now for acting unilaterally, and now suddenly it's out of favor amongst its critics for it to act multilaterally.
KAGAN: Well, I mean, you know, the critics will get the Bush administration coming and going. But I think that it's just a mistake to think that when someone holds a gun to your head and says, now come and talk to me, that that's the time to come and go talk to them. I'm amazed the people think that in response to this, the United States should engage in bilateral negotiations with North Korea.
DOBBS: Is there a role -- and you've looked carefully at the history of this nation and it's foreign policy. Is there a role here for humility on the part of a superpower? Is there a time in which the United States of America might say, we will not say anything, that we will do something called quiet diplomacy, if we must exercise diplomacy, whether it be in the case of North Korea or whether it be Iran?
KAGAN: Well, I think that you're certainly right to suggest that you can't go saying things are unacceptable, unacceptable and then when they happen, you can continue to say that they're unacceptable. I mean, there is a price to be paid every time you draw a line in the sand and somebody steps over it.
You know, what the United States should be doing, I think the United States has a special obligation to keep peace and security in east Asia and I think we have to work at that. And I think it's encouraging to see Japan taking such a strong position on this right now.
DOBBS: And quickly, Iraq generals, as I was just talking with the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, we're seeing general staff officers dissenting from the policies that have been followed in the conduct of this war. Your reaction?
KAGAN: Well, I'd be surprised if they weren't dissenting from the conduct of the war. I mean, we've made some very big strategic errors in Iraq after the invasion. We're paying a huge price for them right now.
DOBBS: Robert Kagan, thank you very much for being here.
KAGAN: Thank you.
DOBBS: We'll talk soon.
The results of our poll tonight? Just over half of you say that you are not very or not at all confident your vote will count in the upcoming elections.
Thanks for being with us here tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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