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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Resignation of Donald Rumsfeld Unlikely To Lead To Major Short- Term Changes In U.S. Strategy in Iraq; Democrats Believe Voter Anger With President's Conduct Of War Was A Major Factor Behind Victory; Most Lawmakers Who Support Strong Border Security Survived Midterm Elections; Election Night Confirms Problems in E-Voting
Aired November 08, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has abruptly resigned one day after the Democrats seized control of the House of Representatives and apparently the U.S. Senate as well. But will President Bush change U.S. strategy in Iraq?
We'll have complete coverage for you here tonight.
And Democrats celebrate their victory in the House, and they are obviously on the verge of winning the Senate as well. Democrats say they will launch a bold series of reforms in their first 100 hours.
We'll have that story, a great deal more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, "America Votes 2006."
Live, from CNN's election headquarters in New York, here now Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush today announced the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and he admitted the Republican Party received what he called a "thumping" in the election. President Bush acknowledged that the Democratic victory indicates voters are unhappy about the progress of the war in Iraq.
The Democrats now control the House of Representatives for the first time in 12 years. They also stand a strong chance of soon winning the Senate.
Only one Senate seat remains too close to call. A projected winner not in place yet. The battle in Virginia between Senator George Allen and James Webb.
Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House tonight on the sudden resignation of the defense secretary.
Dana Bash reports tonight from Capitol Hill on Democratic reaction to Donald Rumsfeld's resignation and their ambitious plans to introduce new legislation.
And Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon on whether U.S. strategy in Iraq is likely to change after this election.
We'll also be talking with three of the country's brightest political analysts.
We begin with Suzanne Malveaux at the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, Donald Rumsfeld is out. Bob Gates is in.
It really was a stunning turnaround. It had much of Washington in disbelief. That news breaking, BlackBerries buzzing right before the president's news conference in the East Room this afternoon.
It was just last week President Bush in print interviews reassured reporters that Don Rumsfeld was here to stay through the remainder of his term. President Bush today making a public announcement, saying, in fact, that the opposite was true. And he did acknowledge that he had been less than forthcoming with reporters, that, in fact, he and Rumsfeld had had a series of discussions about the potential for him stepping down, and it was on Sunday that the president met with Rumsfeld's possible replacement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In this time of war the president replies on the secretary of defense to provide military advice and direct our nation's armed forces as they engage our enemies across the world. The secretary of defense must be a man of vision who can see threats still over the horizon and prepare our nation to meet them. Bob Gates is the right man to meet both of these critical challenges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And President Bush said that he did not actually acknowledge that he was thinking about replacing Rumsfeld publicly because he didn't want to inject a major decision in the campaign, that it wasn't political. But Lou, of course part of the decision was pragmatic, part of it was conciliatory, and a big part also political. This was election was widely seen as a referendum on the Iraq war and the president, and quietly, the quietly, the Republican strategists, as well as lawmakers, who were telling the White House they needed to do something dramatic and to do it quickly -- Lou.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's been quite a time. It recalls to mind the statement by Winston Churchill, something to the effect that, "I have benefited greatly from criticism, and at no time have I suffered a lack thereof."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And Lou, of course Bob Gates will have to go through a process, the Senate approving him. And that Senate composition could change depending on the kind of information we get perhaps the next couple of weeks, whether the Democrats as well will take control of that chamber -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Suzanne Malveaux from the White House.
The resignation of Donald Rumsfeld is unlikely to lead to any major changes in U.S. strategy in Iraq, at least in the short term. Nearly 150,000 of our troops are fighting insurgents and terrorists in Iraq.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon now.
Jamie, just what effect, if any, will the resignation of the defense secretary have on the management, the conduct of this war?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it's interesting that President Bush said in his private conversations with Rumsfeld that Rumsfeld himself admitted that the war in Iraq needed a fresh perspective. He said that Rumsfeld himself understands that Iraq is not working well enough, fast enough, and that played into President Bush's decision to replace his embattled defense chief, he claims even before he knew the results of today's elections.
Rumsfeld always said he served at the pleasure of the president, and as he was leaving said that he felt the war on terror was misunderstood. But by selecting Bob Gates, the former CIA chief, Bush appears to be signaling that he's going to be giving more weight to the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group headed by former secretary of state Jim Baker and former congressman Lee Hamilton. Gates was a member of that group, and he, as part of that, received briefings from U.S. commanders in Iraq and had a good handle on where the recommendations of that group were going.
But Rumsfeld's departure was greeted both by Republicans and Democrats as something that was an opportunity for a fresh start. And in a way, it was smart politics as well, because it puts the onus -- it takes away an issue for the Democrats and puts the onus on them to cooperate in the way ahead in Iraq. So I think you will see some kind of course correction in the days and weeks ahead -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Insurgents in Iraq have killed two more of our troops. A Marine killed in Al Anbar Province, west of Baghdad. A soldier killed near Kirkuk, in northern Iraq.
2,839 of our troops have now been killed, 21,572 of our troops wounded. Of those, 9,820 seriously.
Turning to the outcome of the election and the new balance of power in Congress, in the House the Democrats are now in control with a net gain of 29 seats, giving them a 229-seat position. The Republicans had a net loss of 28 seats. And in the Senate, a net gain of five seats for the Democrats, giving them 50 seats. The Republicans have had a net decline of five seats, leaving them with only 48.
But control of the Senate hangs on one race that remains undecided. All eyes now on Virginia as Democratic challenger James Webb holds on to a slight lead over incumbent senator George Allen.
We'll be going live to Virginia later here in this broadcast.
And Democrats believe voter anger and frustration with the president's conduct of the war was a major factor behind their victory. Democrats say the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld is an important first step, but they say the Bush administration must do far more to address voter concerns about the war.
Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democrats call their election night sweep a mandate for change in Iraq.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: Nowhere was the call for a new direction more clear from the American people than in the war in Iraq.
BASH: They didn't have to wait long to see the spoils of their victories. Just as Democratic leaders sat down for a celebratory photo-op, they got the news, Donald Rumsfeld was fired.
PELOSI: It will give a fresh start to finding a solution to Iraq rather than staying the course.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: If the vote of last night from all over America didn't accomplish anything but this, it was a good night.
BASH: But beyond the Rumsfeld bombshell, Democrats all but acknowledged, even with control of the House and maybe the Senate, there is only so much they can do to change Iraq policy.
PELOSI: The president is the president of the United States. I hope that he will listen to the voices of the people and that, again, putting aside partisanship and looking to a partnership to end this war.
BASH: That's part of the double-barreled approach set by the presumptive House speaker, a pledge for bipartisanship along with a firm promise to push for new policies. Beyond Iraq, Nancy Pelosi has an ambitious agenda.
In the first 100 hours, she wants to raise the minimum wage to $7.25 an hour, enact recommendations from the 9/11 Commission, cut interest rates for student loans, try to lower prescription drug prices under Medicare. And more.
Democrats also promise new strict oversight of the Bush White House. But the woman whose new caucus will be made up of many conservative Democrats from red districts also tried to allay concerns about her liberal roots.
PELOSI: I understand my role as leader of the Democrats, but even more important than that, I very, very, very, very much respect that I will be the speaker of the House, not of the Democrats.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, Pelosi will, of course, have to deal with Republicans here, too, once they sift through the wreckage of their losses. Several angry rank and file Republicans said today that its party lost its way and that the Republicans got what they deserved. And a few of those Republicans, Lou, say that they're going to run for leadership positions because it's time for a change there, too -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much.
Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
Joining me now, Republican strategist Ed Rollins, former White House political director; Errol Louis, columnist at "The New York Daily News" and editorial board member; and Democratic strategist, Democratic National Committee member Robert Zimmerman.
I think it's only appropriate, Robert, we begin with you tonight.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you.
DOBBS: Congratulations on what -- it was an overwhelming victory.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, on behalf of my party I thank you.
DOBBS: Now, how much of that is -- that victory is to the credit of the party and how much of it is, do you think, blamed appropriately upon the Bush administration and a Congress -- congressional leadership that failed to meet the expectations of voters?
ZIMMERMAN: You know something? With all the frustration and all the anxiety about the Bush agenda, the bottom line is, if you didn't have a Democratic Party that was prepared to be a 50-state party, we would not have been competitive. And I really have to give credit to Howard Dean and Rahm Emanuel and Chuck Schumer in their -- in their selection of candidates and Dean's strategy of building a Democratic Party that was competitive in 50 states.
It wasn't just the victories that we had. It was where we won them, in states that really were for many years off limits.
DOBBS: And not a single Democratic incumbent lost his or her seat.
ZIMMERMAN: That's exactly right.
DOBBS: I mean, that's remarkable, Ed Rollins.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: That's unbelievable. And I think -- I think to their credit, you know, first of all, the absurdity to me, as I've said on this show many times, why the president allowed them to dictate the agenda. And if he was willing to dump Rumsfeld, which obviously he was willing to do today, why didn't he do it two months ago?
Why didn't he give Republicans an opportunity to basically say things were going to be different in the second term? And I think that may have made some difference. It certainly would have changed the overall dynamics.
But to wait until today to do this, and to basically mislead the press last week on doing this, convinced a lot of voters that he was trying to sell the war and he couldn't sell the war, and that nothing was going to be any different. And he forced a lot of Republicans to run under that banner, and that was a destructive banner.
DOBBS: When you say basically mislead the press last week...
ROLLINS: Told them he was keeping Rumsfeld until the end. And that's not an honest statement.
DOBBS: It's not. And I think that maybe it could also be framed as a straight-out lie. You have to give him credit for being candid about the fact that he lied. But he straightforwardly lied.
Errol, let me ask you this. This -- this election has produced obviously for the Democratic Party some despondency amongst Republicans. Where does it move us in terms of the common good, the national interest, and the interests that are most important -- that is, the quality of life for middle class Americans, the standard of living, these basic issues?
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, there are some of those that are going to get dealt with allegedly in the first 100 hours. And it will be good to see whether or not we finally get some progress on the minimum wage.
What the president said by way of offering an olive branch in his press conference today suggested that he might help move it along. So that -- that will affect seven million people right off the bat.
So there could be some progress in that area. But there are other issues like stem cell research that really haven't been fought out. You know? The Senate race...
DOBBS: Fought out in Missouri.
LOUIS: In Missouri, arguably, the margin of victory for the Democrat there, Claire McCaskill, was pretty much the same as an initiative on stem cell research. But that's not a national consensus. That's not a national battle. DOBBS: Right.
LOUIS: And we'll see if some of these other things get moved on or if indeed this becomes yet another fight over the conduct of the war in Iraq.
DOBBS: OK.
Our panel will be with us throughout the broadcast as we examine the issues and the events of the day.
We'll also be joined here later -- two retired military commanders who publicly called for Donald Rumsfeld's resignation and criticism of his conduct of the war in Iraq.
Christine Romans joins us here to report on voters' powerful message to Washington, D.C., about the escalating war on the middle class.
And will the Democratic victory make it easier for President Bush to push his amnesty agenda for illegal aliens through Congress?
We'll have that special report.
And the battle to control the U.S. Senate hanging in the balance. Senator George Allen, Democratic challenger James Webb, they're tied, almost.
We'll have a live report for you from Richmond, Virginia, here next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Welcome back to our special election coverage tonight.
President Bush today at a news conference said recent success, as he put it, on achieving border security will bring the new Congress aboard when he presents his comprehensive immigration reform proposals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Show me progress on the border and then we'll be interested in talking about other aspects. Well, there is progress being made on the border in terms of security, and I would hope we can get something done. It's a vital issue. It's an issue that -- there's an issue where I believe we can find some common ground with the Democrats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: In effect, the president saying it's going to be much easier to get through his comprehensive immigration reform with a Democratic Congress than it was with a Republican Congress. But in the states that must deal with illegal immigration each and every day, voters are taking a much firmer line. And a new balance of power in Congress may bring new federal action on illegal immigration despite the president's position.
Casey Wian reports tonight on efforts in Arizona and Colorado to restrict the flow of taxpayer money to illegal aliens.
Lisa Sylvester reports tonight on how illegal immigration reform will fare in a new Congress.
We begin with Casey Wian in Los Angeles -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, despite the Democratic takeover of Congress, most lawmakers who support strong border security survived the midterm elections.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to have papers to vote.
WIAN (voice-over): San Diego Republican Brian Bilbray's message of border security first delivered a convincing victory over Democrat Francine Busby, who infamously told an audience of immigrants you don't need papers for voting.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: Illegal immigration is an issue that you just can't ignore and you can't look the other way. And you darn well shouldn't be rewarding them with an amnesty or with voting.
WIAN: Fellow border security Californians Ed Royce and 2008 presidential candidate Duncan Hunter also won easily. Michael McCaul and Ted Poe from Texas retained their seats, as did Colorado's Tom Tancredo, and Iowa's Steve King.
However, a Minuteman Project endorsement failed to save Indiana's John Hostettler. And Arizona lost border security advocate Randy Graf and apparently J.D. Hayworth, who's refusing to concede despite a preliminary four-point deficit.
Illegal immigration was by far the most important issue to Arizona voters. They passed propositions 100, denying illegal alien felony suspects bail; 102, barring them from collecting punitive damages in civil lawsuits; 103, declaring English Arizona's official language; and 300, restricting state-funded adult education and child care to citizens and legal residents.
All received more than 70 percent of the vote.
DEAN MARTIN (R), ARIZONA TREASURER-ELECT: This is not a silver bullet. It's not going to solve the problem. But it definitely helps.
WIAN: Colorado's referendum disallowing illegal alien wages as a business expense is narrowly ahead. And another measure, ordering the state to sue the federal government to enforce its own immigration laws, easily passed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Now, it's clear border security hawks still have plenty of political power. Illegal immigration was the number one issue for California voters, and they re-elected pro-border security governor Arnold Schwarzenegger in a landslide -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Casey Wian from Los Angeles.
President Bush may believe that the new Congress will approve his comprehensive immigration reform proposals, but there are indications the president's plan to give amnesty may still face considerable congressional hurdles.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Democratic pickup of House seats may not be enough to guarantee passage of comprehensive immigration reform pushed by the president and the open borders advocates because of the numbers.
TAMAR JACOBY, THE MANHATTAN INST.: You're still going to need 60, 70 Republicans in the House; 10, 20 Republicans in the Senate.
SYLVESTER: It's not a given that those votes are there. Many of the Democratic newcomers in the 110th Congress are more conservative on immigration than the 109th Congress.
Democrats in close races who took a tough stand on border enforcement include Missouri's Claire McCaskill and Pennsylvania's Jason Altmire.
DAN STEIN, FED. FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: Not a single Democrat ran for re-election promising a big amnesty, a guest worker program, or flooding middle class jobs with foreign workers. Not one.
It would be the height of cynicism for the Democrats to turn around and do that. We have to assume that while we lost some moderate Republicans, we gained some moderate Democrats.
SYLVESTER: The biggest challenge for opponents of a guest worker amnesty plan will be the House leadership change. Congressman James Sensenbrenner, a strong opponent of a comprehensive immigration plan, will likely be replaced by Representative John Conyers, who is a strong advocate for the comprehensive approach.
Indiana's John Hostettler, who chaired the Immigration and Border Security Subcommittee and opposed open borders lost his race. His position could be filled by Congresswoman Sheila Jackson-Lee, another ardent supporter of the comprehensive plan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: At least for now, it doesn't appear that Democrats are willing to revisit the immigration issue any time soon. House Democrats put out a list of the issues they will tackle first. Middle class concerns top the agenda, and the guest worker amnesty plan was not included -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, of course, the importation of cheap foreign labor is chief among those concerns for the middle class.
Thank you very much.
Lisa Sylvester.
Let's turn now if I may to our panel.
Errol, first of all, I mean, what's your reaction? Do you think that the Democrats are going to make the amnesty agenda their own?
LOUIS: I think they're going to take their own approach to it. I think it's going to be very much more lenient than what we saw in the last Congress. Because while some moderate Democrats got elected by being tough on border security, there are many more people -- and we just saw some of their faces -- in the black caucus, in the Hispanic caucus, who have very deep attachments to pro-open borders.
DOBBS: And those open borders amnesty advocates, in point of fact, doesn't sound like they're paying a lot of attention here, Robert Zimmerman, to what happened to this Republican Congress, ignoring the will of the people.
ZIMMERMAN: I think, Errol, you're underestimating the Democratic -- the new Democratic members of Congress, and also the agenda of the Democratic Congress. Border and port security has been one of the top priorities, putting in place the 9/11 Commission recommendations has been critical. And you're not going to see a Democratic Congress ignore or be for open borders and open ports.
ROLLINS: If the president tries to push through this with Democrat support, he might as well move in Pelosi's office, the speaker's office, because he's going to have no support from Republicans who feel that he basically led them over the cliff yesterday. And he might as well just pack his bags, because the next two years he'll have no Republican support on any major issues.
DOBBS: I wonder if many members of the House of Representatives, particularly than I think he led them over the cliff than pushed them toward that cliff on issues like comprehensive immigration reform, where he aligned with 31 Democrats in the Senate to get his legislation through.
ROLLINS: I think there's a lot of gnashing of the teeth and a lot of second-guessing today of the strategy or lack of strategy in this campaign.
DOBBS: Right. ZIMMERMAN: I think also, the bottom line is even his strategy for the fence along the Mexican border turned out to be deceitful. Neither the money nor the legislation has been put in place to implement that bill.
DOBBS: Robert Zimmerman, thank you very much.
We'll be back with these three gentlemen throughout the broadcast.
Next, how the middle class fared in this election, and the results of the Virginia Senate race still in the air. Control of the Senate hanging in the balance. We'll have a live report for you from Virginia.
And just last week, President Bush voiced support for his secretary of defense. Today his secretary of defense is adios. We'll hear from two former military commanders who have been calling for his resignation.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Voters across this country vented their frustration, their anger and they sent a very strong message to Washington. In ballot initiatives all across the country, voters fought back to gain ground in war on the middle class.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What voters did here will make a big difference here. The message doesn't get louder or clearer than this. Six more states raise the minimum wage, a clear majority of states declaring the federal wage of $5.15 an hour is simply not enough for working families.
HENRY AARON, BROOKINGS INST.: The minimum wage has eroded to the lowest level adjusted for average wages in about a half a century.
ROMANS: The business community has long opposed higher minimum wages, preferring instead low taxes and less regulation.
BILL BEACH, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: When you increase the minimum wage, you increase the cost of doing business. And that's -- that's kind of tough.
ROMANS: Voters overwhelmingly disagreed. And in 10 states this fall, they offered a sharp rebuke of last year's unpopular Supreme Court decision which allowed private homes to be raised for commercial development.
JENNIE BOWSER, NATIONAL CONF. OF STATE LEGISLATURES: They basically say that the government can't take property for economic development, so they can't take your house and turn it over to a developer to build a strip mall.
ROMANS: Arizona's measure went even further, requiring compensation for property owners if land use regulations lower their property values.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And that one passed. Now, historically, less than half of ballot initiatives are passed by voters. This time around, voters sending a very clear signal about the issues that matter most to the middle class.
DOBBS: Absolutely. And, you know, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Heritage Foundation, the Enterprise -- I mean, all of these people had better understand something that's clear, at least to me. And that is, when the voters go to the trouble of an initiative to get around their state legislatures, to get around the federal government, and say, you know, business is pushing just way too hard against the interest, the common good, working men and women in this country, you know, we're going to see some real fireworks unless this -- this new Congress, led by the Democrats, awakens to the needs of middle class Americans.
Christine, thank you very much.
Christine Romans.
Turning to our poll tonight, the question is: What was the deciding factor in casting your vote yesterday, the war in Iraq, corruption in our government, the economy, or illegal immigration?
Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here later.
Next, it shouldn't come as a shock. We were warned countless times about paperless voting. But now it's left us with a cliffhanger in Virginia. Unbelievably, unbelievably, no one knows who will control the Senate. And we have some other incredible information to share with you about that election in Virginia tonight. We'll have complete coverage.
And the Republican bombshell today, the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld. More reaction from two former military commanders who have called for his resignation. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, control of the Senate hangs in the balance on the outcome of the Virginia Senate race between George Allen and James Webb. Almost 24 hours after the polls closed, there still is no winner. Ed Henry is in Richmond, Virginia and has the latest for us. Ed, are you starting to see a lot of lawyers roll into town?
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes on both sides, Lou. In fact these candidates, as you know, were already on a collision course. Charges of racism and sexism flying back and forth. But now both sides are in fact bringing in the lawyers, getting ready for the possibility of this getting even uglier now that so much is at stake, control of the U.S. Senate itself. The Democrat Jim Webb now has a lead of about 7,000 votes and he's trying to create an aura of inevitability. He's calling himself senator-elect, he's making preparations to land himself a Capitol office.
But just in case, he has started gathering volunteers and lawyers to prepare for the possibility of a bitter recount fight. Senator Allen, meanwhile, conceded nothing last night on election night, said that the vote counting has to continue. He has his own team of lawyers and strategists. It's led by Ed Gillespie, the former Republican National Committee chairman. He's a veteran of the 2000 recount fight down in Florida.
At this point, what we're seeing is a state-mandated review of the official vote count. That is not decided by either campaign. That was already in place. It goes on for about a week.
For now, the Allen camp is leaving open the possibility of a recount down the road. But all signs are starting to point -- a lot of Democrats saying they don't think Allen will have a recount -- really a case to launch a recount fight after that. And even Republicans privately suggesting that they really don't they at this point, barring some major development in some sort of a voting miscue or something, the bottom line expecting that at some point the senator will in fact concede. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Ed Henry from Richmond, Virginia.
What's happening in Virginia and problems in a number of other states confirm some of the worst fears of voting activists about e- voting machines. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Virginia, a tight race and no voter-verified paper trail. It's something voter activists have been warning about all along.
WARREN STEWART, VOTETRUSTUSA: Over 75 percent of the votes that were cast yesterday in Virginia were cast on machines that did not provide an independent means of verification. So there's no way to do a really meaningful recount. If Senator Allen requests a recount, all he can get is a reprint.
PILGRIM: Virginia-based activists say efforts to enact paper trail legislation failed last year.
JEREMY EPSTEIN, VERIFIED VOTING OF VA: There's no evidence of how the voter originally voted, what their intent was. All we have is an electronic record that you just look at the printouts from the machines and total those up and make sure that you didn't miss any machines. So that's why it's really a re-tally, it's not a recount.
PILGRIM: Activists warned of this and worse, the use of widespread electronic voting across the country had sporadic problems and a few hot spots. In Cuyahoga County, Ohio, with a checkered history of electronic voting, the problems were not entirely worked out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your ballot has been canceled.
PILGRIM: But election officials managed the problems well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're trying to send the technician out here.
PILGRIM: In Maryland, also long lines.
PAT HILL, MARYLAND ELECTION OFFICIAL: Our machines are never perfect and some of them did give some of the judges a harder time. But overall, we seem to be doing really well.
PILGRIM: Denver had hour-long lines by mid afternoon because of problems with electronic registration. Several jurisdictions in numerous states: Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and South Carolina, moved to keep polls open later to accommodate voters.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: In Florida, Republican Vern Buchanan's win over Democrat Christine Jennings, less than 400 votes over the opponent appears to be headed for a recount. And that would also face technical problems because of the touch-screen technology without a paper trail. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Kitty.
Joining us now to discuss what is to be done about the turmoil, the uncertainty in Virginia, Chellie Pingree. She is the president of the voter advocacy group, among other things, the group Common Cause and our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Chellie, let me turn to you. Is there any prospect, in your judgment, that Virginia could turn into the 2006 version of Florida 2000?
CHELLIE PINGREE, PRESIDENT, COMMON CAUSE: Well, I think it is. I actually think it's the poster child for what's wrong with electronic voting in this country. You may have a recount called for here and in fact as some of your earlier spokespeople said, all they're going to get is somewhat of a retallying. There's going to be a tremendous amount of frustration and I think it will add to the cry of why don't we have electronic voting machines with paper trails that you can verify?
DOBBS: Jeffrey Toobin, we just heard Ed Henry's report, you just heard what Chellie Pingree said, what are the prospects?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well Allen clearly has the legal right to ask for a recount. But what we've learned just last year in Virginia is that not much happens in a recount with these kind of machines. There was a recount in the attorney general's race last year.
It took a very long time. It went from Election Day, the first week of November to December 22nd. But it only shifted 37 votes because it's not as Kitty's reports suggested, it's not a real recount. It's simply looking at the numbers that were already printed and just checking that you got the right numbers. You're not looking at ballots.
DOBBS: Chellie, let me ask you this, are we basically because there is no what's called verified voter paper trail, voter-verified paper audit trail, are we basically in the situation where we're going to be reliant upon the manufacturers of those machines to say, these are good numbers, these are bad numbers, the votes were accurately tallied?
PINGREE: Yes, and what a horrible position to be in.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
PINGREE: There's a high level of voter distrust in this country and we can't get inside the machine. In fact, most people state we know more about what goes on inside of gambling machines than we do in our electronic voting machines.
DOBBS: Jeffrey Toobin, how in the world -- there are all sorts of considerations in this, but without that verified paper audit trail, we're sort of up a creek.
TOOBIN: This is another reflection of what went on in Florida in 2000. Government spends money on things that people pressure government to spend money on. There's no real constituency for elections. The benefits are too general. There's no advocacy group. There's no labor union. There's no business that says you must spend money. So they do it on the cheap and they do it badly.
DOBBS: On the cheap, just about $2.5 billion for the Help America Vote Act. All that spread around all of these districts. But I understand cheap. By Washington's standards that's cheap.
Chellie, Common Cause is going to be pushing hard to make sure we don't -- well, we're going to run into problems without question. But that we run into far fewer problems in 2008?
PINGREE: Well, it could be, again, a significantly close presidential election. We don't want to see a vote count like we did in 2004 and there were many problems at the polling place, particularly with electronic voting machines. So we're going to work very hard. We have a Web site called getitstraightby2008 and we're encouraging people to start fighting to fix these machines and fix many of the problems of the polling place.
DOBBS: That's getitstraight2008.org.
PINGREE: That's right, getitstraightby2008. DOBBS: By 2008. All right, great.
Chellie, thank you very much.
Jeffrey, as always, good to see you again. It's just been a few hours.
TOOBIN: Morning, noon and night.
DOBBS: Well, you did a wonderful job. Thank you very much, Jeff, too.
Just ahead, two of the military's most outspoken critics of the defense secretary join me to discuss his resignation, the war in Iraq, and what these decisions -- what effect they may have on our men and women in uniform.
And the Democratic 100 hour plan, will it be good enough for you? We'll see. We'll be talking with our panel of experts.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has resigned. Rumsfeld did not acknowledge any errors in the conduct of the war in Iraq, nor did he express any regret about strategy.
Joining me now, two retired military commanders who have called for the resignation of the defense secretary.
Colonel Thomas Hammes, who served in Iraq with the U.S. Marine Corps.
Major General Paul Eaton -- he'll be joining us her in just a moment. There he is -- who led the U.S. training of Iraqi police and security forces.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Loud and clear. Thank you very much.
DOBBS: We thank you both for being here.
Let me start out with you, Tom Hammes.
This decision to resign, coming as it does now, what is the likely impact, first, on our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan?
COL. THOMAS HAMMES, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET.): I think the key is going to be how the administration uses this. If they use it to change the strategy so it's effective and to provide equipment for the troops, both in country and training, it's very positive.
DOBBS: All right. General Eaton?
MAJ. GEN. PAUL EATON, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Lou, great to be with you again. It's going to energize the troops. It's going to energize the Pentagon. In fact, it's already started. The feedback that I'm getting is that the energy levels have just popped in the Pentagon.
DOBBS: And when you say the energy levels have just popped -- as you know, I've been on this broadcast extremely critical of our generals, the Pentagon, the general staff, because in many cases they have been inserted into domestic as well as international political issues. They have asked the American people for patience while not procuring victory nor enunciating a strategy.
Are we going to see a real, substantive difference in the actions of the general staff?
EATON: Lou, I think that one of the outcomes of the election that we've just gone through and the fact we're changing to a very reasonable man -- this Robert Gates is a man of considerable professional background, positive, and is a reasonable man.
I expect to see generals and men of all ranks testify before Congress on what they really need, where they really want this thing to go. So I see it as a liberating influence for the uniformed military.
DOBBS: Tom Hammes, as General Eaton just said, there are very few men or women who have served this country with greater distinction than Bob Gates. He's just enormously respected.
Is it your sense that he will be able, working as he has with the Iraq Study Group, the group being led by the former Secretary of State James Baker and Congressman Lee Hamilton, to make a profound difference, within this administration, on the conduct of this war?
Whether that means a strategy for victory or a strategy for withdrawal.
HAMMES: I think he can make a difference. He's certainly got the background. With his background in human intelligence, he should understand more clearly the human aspects of this war, which are the critical aspects.
It's going to be whether he then chooses to really mobilize the Pentagon, use that enthusiasm, put it on a wartime footing or not.
DOBBS: And give us your best judgment, militarily, General Eaton. Should this country prepare for a greater engagement in Iraq, or should it begin an acceleration, if you will -- just to give you two options here -- an acceleration of withdrawal, and bringing more Iraqis online as we do so?
EATON: Lou, a great question.
We need to change the method that we're dealing with the problem in Iraq, certainly not back away from it. We cannot accept a failed state. And the single greatest factor that we've got to get after, aside from the political solution with the Iraqi government, is the Iraqi security forces.
We had a lieutenant colonel, Doug Olivan (ph), publish an article in the "Military Review", a distinguished review. And this man's got an approach at dealing with the Iraqi security forces that's very different from what the administration has been doing.
DOBBS: Tom Hammes, I'm going to have to give you the last word. We're out of time.
HAMMES: I think that we have to stay and win because if we don't, there's too large a disaster potential in the Middle East. And if we're going to discuss withdrawal, we have to discuss what the impact is, the potential for greater Sunni/Shia civil war with experts from the Middle East.
DOBBS: Colonel Hammes, General Eaton, we thank you both for being here. Appreciate it.
EATON: Thanks, Lou.
HAMMES: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Up next here, the "SITUATION ROOM" next with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou.
We're going to check more into the situation involving Donald Rumsfeld. Was it an about-face, stepping down as defense secretary? We'll find out what the impact is and what will be the effect on the war in Iraq.
Also, the presumed Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, she's had some sharp words for the president in the past. Can she actually work with him right now in Washington? I'll ask her.
Plus, getting in line for the White House. One election is over, but now the title fight is about to begin.
And the key to the control of the Senate lies in Virginia. Will there be a recount?
All that, coming up. And Lou Dobbs himself will be joining us throughout our 7:00 p.m. hour.
Lou, I'll see you in a little while.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Wolf. Thank you very much.
And a reminder now to vote in our poll. What was the deciding factor in casting your vote yesterday? The war in Iraq, corruption in our government, the economy or illegal immigration?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have those results here in just a few minutes. Coming up next, a cliffhanger in Virginia, control of the Senate and the president's amnesty agenda for illegal aliens. The future, uncertain. We'll be talking about those issues and more with our panel.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, this may have been a Democratic victory, but no one does victory like two New York Congressmen. Many close races across the country, but two congressional match ups in New York City, anything but close and anything but tame in the result.
In fact, they were nothing less than monumental blowouts. Congressman Charlie Rangel, the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, reelected with only 94 percent of the vote. And Congressman Jose Serrano, his New York City congressional district is right next to Rangel's. He won reelection with a slightly more impressive 96 percent of the vote.
Back with me now, Ed Rollins and Errol Louis and Robert Zimmerman. I suppose there's some folks in Virginia who would have liked to have seen that margin applied to that Senate race. What's your instinct tell you? Are we going to see a recount or do you think that Allen will be gracious and simply concede?
LOUIS: Allen would be wise to be gracious. There's almost no scenario where we can win. You have close to 8,000 votes separating the two candidates. And if you look just a year ago, there was a similarly close race -- a much closer race, actually...
DOBBS: In the attorney general, right.
LOUIS: ... in the attorney general's race. And after the count, only 37 votes swapped. So it's fair to say -- and keep in mind...
DOBBS: But you can imagine the pressure that Allen is under from the Republican Party because that Senate does hang in the balance, control of it.
LOUIS: But there's this thing called reality. I mean, the absentee votes have already been counted. There's no new information coming in.
DOBBS: Ed Rollins.
ROLLINS: I would agree. First I want to make one comment about Rangel's That 95 percent is what his new top tax rate is going to be for all of you rich guys. You'll split 95 percent, but anyway...
LOUIS: I'm not letting him get away with that.
ROLLINS: I think any impression that we are sore losers and that -- I think we go through the process, the process needs to be over in a few days and then we move on. We don't challenge it. We don't challenge it in the courts. The country will feel the Republicans are trying to steal this and I think it will just really do us in.
ZIMMERMAN: You know, I think that George Allen gracious scenario pretty much passed. That strategy disappeared several months ago. So don't count on George Allen being gracious.
What I do enjoy watching is Ed Gillespie, the former Republican National chairman and ENRON lobbyist, now advocating that every vote be counted. Where were they about counting votes in Florida back in 2000? I'm impressed by their newfound faith in Democracy.
DOBBS: You know, I don't know about you, but...
ROLLINS: You guys are still so bitter about Florida.
DOBBS: Ed and Robert just -- do you have that warm feeling I've got, that the healing process after that bitter campaign and election, we are coming together?
(CROSSTALK)
ROLLINS: They just beat Katherine Harris by 1,100,000 votes and they want to still stomp ...
ZIMMERMAN: On behalf of Charlie Rangel, we're not going to quickly get 100 percent of the votes.
DOBBS: Well, you know, those aspirations are what makes this country great.
ZIMMERMAN: We do our best.
DOBBS: All right. We'll be back here in just a moment.
Still ahead, final thoughts from our panel and the results of tonight's poll. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Let's start with the results of our poll. Thirty-four percent of you responding that the war in Iraq was the deciding factor in your vote in yesterday's election. And coming in close behind, corruption in government and the issue of illegal immigration.
Let's turn to our panel for some final thoughts.
Errol, the -- where do you think the country is now after going through this election, the overwhelming victory by the Democrats, nationwide?
LOUIS: There's a chance now, I think, for the Democrats and they had said that they were going to do this, to allay those fears, to say, we're not crazy, we're not going to triple your taxes, we're not going to yank the troops out tomorrow, but to govern responsibly. It's an opportunity in the next two years to show what they can do as we go into the next presidential season.
DOBBS: Do you think they're going to be able to pull it off?
ROLLINS: You know, my sense is it's going to be a big test. We're going to come back at them full bore. We think there's a lot of these seats we can get back. We've got a big defense, we've got a lot of Senate seats up in 2008. It's a presidential year. Presidential politics will start in about two weeks. So we're not going to let them rest on their laurels.
ZIMMERMAN: I don't think you have to worry about that. With a 20-seat margin, or maybe 20, maybe a little bit higher at the end of the day, Democrats are going to be very focused on protecting and building upon that majority.
And they're going to see Nancy Pelosi as speaker and chairmen like Charlie Rangel at Ways and Means be very conscious of governing from the center, protecting middle income working families, protecting middle class tax cuts. You're going to see a Democratic Party that does reflect the country. Remember where the new members come from.
DOBBS: The middle class probably thinks they've got to get them before they can be protected.
ZIMMERMAN: Let me tell you something. Look at where the new members came from, look at the fact that the Democratic Party is now a 50-state party.
ROLLINS: The center of San Francisco though is not exactly the center of the country. It's not exactly middle America.
ZIMMERMAN: Nancy Pelosi is very conscious of being speaker of the House, so that tactic didn't work in the campaign, it's not going to work now.
ROLLINS: We'll see.
DOBBS: Ed's going to try because he enjoys it so much.
ZIMMERMAN: He's not giving up on that one, yes.
DOBBS: Well, let's -- that is really the fundamental issue. I don't know how you all feel, but I truly believe that yesterday's election was about saying in a loud voice that was not fractured by special interest wedge issues, but basically middle class Americans say, we're not going to be ignored in Washington D.C.
You can play your partisan games, your special interest games, you can try to slice and dice us into socioeconomic demographic groups, but we're going to speak. Do you think that message is truly taken to heart by the Democratic leadership?
LOUIS: I don't think it is, to tell you the truth, and I worry about it. I mean, when you look at some of the pocketbook issues that they have pledged to, they're going to be done with those in the first 100 hours, by and large. The question will be, what do they do with things like the corruption question -- earmarks? Tens of thousands of these, these one shots that are just dropped all over the country. DOBBS: It'll be very easy for you to figure that out, Errol, because Speaker-Elect Pelosi has already put forward proposed legislation to address that issue, and to put forward lobbying reform.
The issue is this: the fact that Democrats have this majority in the house and Senate, which -- by the way, on this show, I predicted several months ago, let me remind you, Ed, reflects the fact that we have heard that voice of the middle class and we are responding to it.
DOBBS: You get the last word, Ed.
ROLLINS: What this proves is not an election-proof Congress anymore, and just as we lost yesterday, you can lose very quickly if you get out of touch with where the country is.
DOBBS: Say that again, because I just love the sound of that.
ROLLINS: Not an election-proof Congress.
DOBBS: Those are great words to end this broadcast on. Thank you very much, appreciate it.
Now we continue our CNN special coverage of "America Votes 2006." Wolf Blitzer and I will be sharing this post-election special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM."
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