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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Reports That Additional Marines Will Be Moved To Dangerous Sector of Iraq; President Bush In Vietnam To Discuss Trade; Violence Out Of Control In Iraq; Nancy Pelosi's Choice For Majority Leader Didn't Win; Families Face Food Insecurity
Aired November 16, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, one day after congressional Democrats called for troop reductions in Iraq, up to 2,200 of our Marines are now headed to Iraq.
While our trade deficit is soaring, approaching a trillion dollars, President Bush tonight is in Asia pushing for a so-called free trade agreement, while our embattled middle class faces a loss of even more jobs.
And tonight I'll be talking with the slate.com columnist who coined the term "Lou Dobbs Democrats" to describe many of those who won office on November 7th. He's also the man who calls me an economic nationalist instead of an independent populist. We'll be talking about nationalism, economics, populism and politics.
All of that and more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Thursday, November 16th.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Up to 2,200 of our Marines are being sent to the dangerous Al Anbar Province of Iraq to bolster security as four more of our troops have been killed in combat and the breakdown in order in Iraq continues.
President Bush is tonight headed to Vietnam. There to focus on trade and hoping to avoid parallels between the wars in Vietnam and Iraq.
Jamie McIntyre tonight reports on the move of additional Marines to the most dangerous sector in Iraq.
Ed Henry reports from Vietnam, where President Bush hopes the focus stays on trade.
And Arwa Damon reports tonight from Baghdad, where the investigation into a mass kidnapping raises serious new questions about Iraq's ability to police itself.
We begin tonight with Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- Jamie. JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, at the same time General John Abizaid, the top commander for the Persian Gulf region, is arguing that more U.S. troops in Iraq won't make much of a difference, he's also acknowledging that he has approved the dispatch of more than 2,000 Marine reinforcements to Al Anbar Province, an area that until now had been taking a back seat to Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, CENTCOM COMMANDER: Al Anbar Province is critical, but more critical than Al Anbar province is Baghdad. Baghdad is the main military effort. I told the Marines when I was out there that the main effort is clearly Baghdad. They understand that. That is where our military resources will go.
MCINTYRE (voice-over): But Abizaid signed off sending the 2,200 Marines from the 15th Expeditionary Unit which just finished training on ships off the coast of India to Al Anbar Province in Iraq to reinforce some 20,000 Marines already struggling to control the violence in an area where insurgents hold sway.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: General Maples, is Anbar Province under control?
LT. GEN. MICHAEL MAPLES, DIA DIRECTOR: No, sir, I don't believe it is.
MCINTYRE: In Senate testimony, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency said it would take more than additional U.S. forces to restore order.
MAPLES: I think it's going to take a -- a combination of additional security forces. I think it's going to take leadership out of the tribal sheiks who are in that province.
MCINTYRE: A common argument from U.S. commanders is that more American troops would just be counterproductive. And Pentagon officials dismissed a report in a British newspaper suggesting the U.S. would send 20,000 more troops to Iraq in a last-ditch effort to pull out a military victory.
ABIZAID: We can put in 20,000 more Americans tomorrow and achieve a temporary effect.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, the additional Marines will push up U.S. troop levels in Iraq, currently at about 141,000, but not significantly. On any given day, the number of U.S. troops in Iraq varies between 140,000 and 150,000 because of routine rotations in and out -- Lou.
DOBBS: Do you believe General Abizaid was forthright with Congress yesterday in dealing with the issue of greater number of troops in Iraq based on the fact that we have added now 2,200 more of our Marines in the Al Anbar Province alone? MCINTYRE: Well, he did -- he was making the point that even though he felt that additional U.S. troops wouldn't make much difference in the long term, he did disclose yesterday during that testimony that he had authorized these Marines to go to Al Anbar Province, which he acknowledged was not under control.
But he insisted that ultimately the solution was not more U.S. troops. That it was something that the Iraqis were going to have to win for themselves. He said he believed that in his heart of hearts.
MCINTYRE: His heart of hearts. In his head of heads, do you believe that General Abizaid said anything to make any American think that those fine young men and women in uniform serving this country in Iraq are going to be well led?
MCINTYRE: Well, General Abizaid gave what he believes is his best military advice. And I guess I would have to say that if he didn't have the confidence of the president and others, they would be free to replace him. But he pretty much stuck to his guns yesterday, saying that he believes that the course that he's pursuing is the right one.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, thank you very much, from the Pentagon.
Insurgents, as I said at the outset, have killed four more of our troops in Iraq. One soldier was killed in Baghdad. Three of our troops were killed in Diyala Province, northeast of Baghdad.
2,863 of our troops have now been killed since this war began.
President Bush is set to arrive in Vietnam tonight. He is there to discuss so-called free trade. But questions about parallels between the Vietnam War and the war in Iraq are dominating his visit so far.
Ed Henry has the report from Hanoi -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, here at the APEC summit, the president does want to talk up trade, as well as try to unite Asia against North Korea getting nuclear weapons. But you're right, all of that could get eclipsed by the symbolism of this first- ever visit to Vietnam.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): This is the Vietnam President Bush wants to highlight at the Asian Pacific Economic summit: hustle, bustle, Asia's fastest growing market for U.S. products. But it's still an awkward time for the President to visit Vietnam, evoking painful memories of another polarizing war just as he's trying to chart a new course in Iraq.
ROBERT DALLEK, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: The similarities are so palpable in the sense that we're now three years and eight months later with the sense of being trapped there, caught in a quagmire. HENRY (on camera): Even before arriving here in Hanoi, the president was asked about the parallels between Vietnam and Iraq. An inevitable question that may overshadow this economic summit.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Support for our troops is strong here in the United States, and it wasn't during the Vietnam era. So I see differences, I really do.
HENRY (voice-over): But just last month, the president did see one similarity between the two wars. Asked about "New York Times" columnist Thomas Friedman's contention the recent spate of violence in Iraq may be the jihadist equivalent of the Tet Offensive, the president said that could be right.
The 1968 Tet Offensive turned Americans against the Vietnam War by undercutting President Lyndon Johnson's rosy claims about the conflict. Presidential historian Robert Dallek, the highly respected Johnson biographer, says President Bush and his team are now in the same danger zone.
DALLEK: They were no longer credible. They kept saying things are going well, mission accomplished, we're making progress. And after a while, people looked at the realities and they don't see this progress. And it reminds them again of the kind of rhetoric and illusory thinking that we had in Vietnam.
HENRY: Under fire, Mr. Bush has now pushed out much maligned defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld and is vowing to take a close look at the upcoming report from the bipartisan Iraq Study Group, which may call for a drastic shift in U.S. strategy. Signs perhaps that this president is starting here the echoes of Vietnam.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Professor Dallek believes that the Iraq Study Group's report could become a fig leaf for American departure of Iraq, a modern-day version of peace with honor -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed, thank you very much.
Ed Henry with the president from Hanoi tonight.
The situation for Iraqi civilians tonight is described as desperate. The latest instance, Tuesday's mass kidnapping. No one is even certain how many victims there are. Violence is simply out of control, and the Iraqi government is demonstrably unable to control it.
Arwa Damon reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The scale of this mass kidnapping is hard to comprehend. There are wildly differing accounts. What officials do agree on is that at about 9:30 on Tuesday morning, a mass kidnapping took place at this building, a research facility belonging to Iraq's Ministry of Higher Education, and that the attack was carried out by at least 80 gunmen in about 20 vehicles.
(on camera): Looking at the compound, it is not difficult to imagine how Tuesday's attack took place. There is minimal security here, other than these blast walls. The day of the attack, there were no more than two dozen guards with just a handful of weapons between them.
(voice-over): One eyewitness says the attackers used this side street and entered the compound from the back gate. He says he thought a government official was coming to visit. The attackers were wearing police uniforms and driving what looked like official vehicles.
The government can't get its story straight. To this day, each government agency is reporting a different set of figures for those kidnapped and for those released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number of people that have been released up to now, it's about 70 people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Our information is that 65 to 70 people were kidnapped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 14 employees still missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I estimate that more than 80 percent were released.
DAMON: As to the fate of those taken from here? According to an aide to the minister of higher education, some of those released were tortured.
The attack comes against the backdrop of over two years of violent kidnappings carried out by a variety of gunmen and groups posing as Iraqi security forces, police infiltration by militias, and a government that can't provide security for its people or get its facts straight.
Rescuing the hostages is a political matter. Not just military. Laying bare all that is detrimental to achieving a stable Iraq.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up, I'll be joined by General David Grange, who has his own ideas about a workable strategy in Iraq.
The Democrats choose their new leadership. It's historic, but it didn't go according to the new speaker's plans.
We'll have that story.
And the federal government says millions and millions of Americans don't get enough to eat. And this government has come up with a new term to describe it. No, it's not hunger. We'll have a report.
And a proposed federal plan to hold employers of illegal aliens accountable. Is this government finally beginning to understand it's time to take action?
We'll have that report and a great deal more straight ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Democrats today elected their new leadership for the 110th session of Congress, beginning in January. As expected, the Democratic Party selected California Representative Nancy Pelosi to be the first female speaker of the House of Representatives. But Pelosi's candidate for majority leader -- well, it didn't go Nancy's way.
Dana Bash has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A moment in history. Democrats unanimously elected the first woman to be speaker of the House. But with her victory, also a stinging defeat. Nancy Pelosi put her prestige on the line in backing Iraq war critic and longtime friend John Murtha to be her number two, majority leader, but Murtha lost to Steny Hoyer in a blowout.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER-ELECT: Steny came out a big winner today. It was a stunning victory for him. We've had our debates, we've had our disagreements in that room. Let the healing begin.
BASH: A plea for healing just 10 days after triumphantly seizing of Congress was proof to many Democrats their new leader made a major strategic blunder even before being handed the speaker's gavel.
REP. ALLEN BOYD (D), FLORIDA: Well, I think the caucus, Dana, is fractured now, not because of the race, but because of Speaker-Elect Pelosi's heavy involvement in the race.
BASH: Some Democrats complained about strong-arm tactics, like suggesting committee assignments were at stake in the vote.
REP. RON KIND (D), WISCONSIN: We're all grownups around here, and sometimes elbows are thrown sometimes. It shouldn't surprise too many people.
BASH: Pelosi said she had no regrets and attributed her support for Murtha to his prominence in making Iraq a central election issue.
PELOSI: He changed the debate in this country in a way that I think gave us this majority in this November.
BASH: Murtha took defeat in stride and promised his focus on the war would continue.
REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: My congratulations to the other leaders. I look forward to working with them to redeploy our troops and to get -- get these troops out of Iraq.
BASH: Hoyer has been Pelosi's deputy for four years, but they have been rivals. She beat him in a head-to-head leadership race back in 2001.
In the end, Hoyer's feverish campaigning and fund-raising for colleagues won him a victory by a wide margin.
REP. STENY HOYER (D), MAJORITY LEADER-ELECT: In my opinion, it was not that somebody was rejected today. It was that a team that had been successful was asked to continue to do that job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, despite the pledges of unity all around, there are Democrats here who say that Pelosi's loss, at least her pick for majority leader's loss, should be a signal to her. In the words of one Democratic lawmaker, she must realize she needs to expand her close circle of advisers, trusted advisers, and reach out more to fellow Democrats who are not her natural allies -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, if the speaker and everyone else take this less as a defeat for the speaker rather than a rejection of orthodoxy -- and we've seen plenty of that in Congress in recent years -- this could be looked upon as a strong positive.
Thank you very much.
BASH: Thank you.
DOBBS: Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you believe the newly elected Democratic Congress will be able to come together successfully with Republicans and succeed in putting middle class Americans first? Yes or no?
Please cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have those results coming up here.
An incredible report tonight, unbelievable to those in this country who believe that five years of so-called economic growth is reaching all levels of society in this country. Today, the USDA reports that tens of millions of people in this country are struggling to put food on the table.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last year, 35 million people struggled to put food on the table. And the Agriculture Department reports the number of the poorest, hungriest Americans keeps rising.
Five years into an economic recovery, deep concerns that prosperity is not being shared.
KATE COLER, DEP. UNDERSECRETARY, USDA: There are some families that do face food insecurity, and that's why we're so aggressive with our programs to reach out to people so that they are aware of the food assistance programs that are available to them.
ROMANS: Thirty-six percent of poor families have what the government calls low food security. If it weren't for $33 billion in government assistance, that number would be higher.
Living above the poverty line is no guarantee of food on the table. Families on the cusp of the middle class are seeing stubborn hunger rates. Of families earning around $37,000 or more, more than five percent had trouble putting food on the table.
JAMES WEILL, FOOD RESEARCH & ACTION CENTER: Some of the middle class are joining working poor families and other poor families in what the government calls food insecurity. And we just see families struggling to not be hungry on a regular basis.
ROMANS: Stagnant wages, higher healthcare and energy costs putting a squeeze on the food budget. The government says the typical family of four spends $150 a week for food. A full-time minimum wage jobs earns just $205 a week. Advocates for a higher minimum wage seized on the hunger data.
MAUDE HURD, ACORN: I think the minimum wage certainly will help alleviate some of that. You know, people right now have to decide on whether they should eat quality food or put gas in the car to go to work.
ROMANS: A choice working Americans should not have to make.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Now, this government getting some grief for dropping the word "hunger" from its classifications. "Low food security" is how the government wants to characterize what 35 million people experience in this country. Critics say changing what hunger is called for whatever bureaucratic reason it might be, changing what it's called doesn't change the reality that too many Americans in this day and age are still hungry.
DOBBS: Well, this administration should be marched straight over to a dictionary, the entire administration, and taught that words actually are important in their meaning, and to take -- create something called food insecurity, I mean, that is disgusting. We're talking about people being left hungry in this country.
ROMANS: That's what a lot of the advocates are saying here today. They say hungry is hungry, period.
DOBBS: It's -- what are they -- food insecurity? ROMANS: There's low food security.
DOBBS: These are just abject idiots. I don't even want to -- and the fact that we have this problem in this country in the 21st century, it's reprehensible, whether you are a Democrat, a Republican, no matter what. Thirty-five million people.
ROMANS: And the Bush administration has set a target to cut that number in half by 2010. And so far, there is still a long way to go.
DOBBS: Cut it in half?
ROMANS: Cut the rate of low food security in half.
DOBBS: So 17.5 million should be feeling better about their prospects. Unbelievable.
All right. Thank you very much, Christine Romans.
Still ahead here, Congress abdicates its responsibility, and the Bush administration presses for another free trade agreement to a country sure to swamp the United States with cheap, foreign goods and provide an opportunity for cheap foreign labor. Free trade everywhere. The deal will pit middle class American workers against some of the cheapest in the world.
Promises from Arizona's new immigration official of harsher penalties for employers who hire illegal aliens. Could this be the beginning of sense, reason and effectiveness? Don't hold your breath.
Also, bold new warnings of the economic and security threats to this country from communist China, a new report. We'll have that special report and a great deal more, straight ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: You're Homeland Security Department at work again. It turns out a new virtual fence that's been proposed along the U.S.- Mexican border could cost actually 15 times more than originally projected, that according to the Homeland Security Department.
The cost of that virtual fence, which excites a lot of people who don't want to have real border security -- well, the cost of electronic monitoring, as it turns out, along the border, originally estimated at $2 billion. Well, it turns out the true cost, or at least as the truth is now available, could be anywhere between $8 billion and $30 billion for a virtual fence.
The first part of that program is planned for a 28-mile stretch of the border near Tucson. It's being -- the contractor on that is Boeing, and that little 28-mile deal cost about $2 billion. It is due to be completed in June and, yes, that part is funded.
A walkout tonight by illegal alien workers at the world's largest pork-processing plant. Hundreds of workers are protesting tougher immigration controls at Smithfield Foods' Tar Heel, North Carolina plant. Snithfield says it's complying with U.S. immigration laws, following notices of no match on Social Security numbers.
About 600 of its workers were using unverifiable Social Security numbers. So far, up to 40 of those workers have been fired for providing false information. The rest, apparently, they are going to continue demonstrating.
Arizona on the frontlines of this nation's illegal immigration crisis, in part because federal and local officials there have failed to cooperate on enforcement efforts. But there is a new federal agent in town, and he's promising to go after employers of illegal aliens.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Alonzo Pena is the new man in charge of investigations for Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Arizona. He promises to crack down on employers of illegal aliens in the state.
ALONZO PENA, ICE SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: It is an area that is critically important because that is the draw for people that are coming over. That's what makes this corridor attractive that people want to come. There is employment here, there's jobs here, and that is an issue that has to be addressed.
WIAN: Pena says his agents will focus on making examples out of the worst offenders because after a month on the job, he admits he doesn't have the resources to go after every illegal alien employer or smuggler. In fact, ICE reportedly has just 60 agents in Phoenix.
What's worse, other state and local law enforcement agencies have complained for years that the Phoenix ICE office has been a colossal failure, even refusing to arrest and deport illegal aliens captured by other agencies.
Among Pena's first actions was to meet with state and local law enforcement leaders to promise cooperation. Sheriff Joe Arpaio has been arrested illegal aliens for six months, and says ICE has fought his efforts.
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: I have had 350 in jail but when they were found guilty, they were supposed to go back to Mexico. ICE refused to pick them up, so I told my officers you will bring them back to the border. Now I don't have to face that obstacle anymore, because they are starting to pick up our convicted felons, illegals, from our jail.
WIAN: Nationally, ICE's work site enforcement record is improving. The agency says it arrested 668 employers of illegal aliens through August 2006, which is more than the previous seven years combined.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Pena says he's confident more resources will be coming from Washington once he proves his strategy of actually cooperating with state and local law enforcement is effective -- Lou.
DOBBS: It is fascinating. And this took quite some time. It was a political and bureaucratic nightmare to get the incompetent who was in that job before him out of there and somebody who really wanted to do things in there.
WIAN: Well, what's interesting, Lou, is the Phoenix office of ICE has had problems ever since the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. It wasn't just his predecessor, a man named Roberto Medina, who I will mention has been transferred to the ICE office in El Paso. Special agents in charge have had trouble getting office to operate effectively for years.
DOBBS: And El Paso, it looks like, with the attitude and the competency displayed by the gentleman, it's about to get its new share of even bigger problems. Casey, thanks very much.
WIAN: Thank you.
DOBBS: Casey Wian.
A Nevada town has instituted a ban against foreign flags. The town council of Pahrump, west of Las Vegas, made it an offense punishable by a $50 fine and 30 hours of community service to fly a foreign flag. Look out Columbus Day. Look out St. Patrick's Day. Supporters say it's a swipe, really, at Hispanic protesters who carried Mexican flags in rallies.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Gloria in Wisconsin: "Lou, I was born in the United States to Mexican immigrants who all came here legally and went through the process of becoming citizens. If my grandparents and parents could do it legally, why can't others from Mexico do it as well? Illegal means illegal. Why should citizens bear the burden of paying for people who are here illegally? Our country should first be concerned with its own citizens. Lou, just keep telling it like it is." I guarantee it.
And JoEllen in Florida said, "Our leaders have sent our troops everywhere except where they are really needed, in our own country. How can our government say they're bringing democracy to another country when we are quickly losing our own?"
Peg in Missouri said, "Would you be so kind as to provide your middle class listeners with a list of the nation's laws we can choose to ignore? Illegal aliens seem to have access to such a list, but I have been unable to find a copy."
Send us your thoughts to loudobbs.com. More of your thoughts upcoming here on the broadcast. And each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "War on the Middle Class."
Up next, a frightening new assessment paints China as an increasingly dangerous force and is calling on Congress and the president to act. We'll have a special report. And outsourcing jobs to Vietnam at the top of President Bush's agenda? There is nothing Congress can do about it at all it turns out. We'll tell you why.
And I'll be joined by the editor of slate.com who says my stance on free trade amounts to economic nationalism.
And I'll be joined as well by the leader authority on Iraq, Thomas Ricks will be talking about General Abizaid's decision to raise troop levels in Iraq and the strategy if there is one, going forward. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: More evidence tonight concerning the rising economic and military challenge posed by communist China.
The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission in a critical report tells Congress it must increase pressure on the Bush administration to hold communist China accountable for its unfair trade practices and military buildup.
Louise Schiavone reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The words are bureaucratic, the delivery bland, but the message is unmistakable. China is a problem.
CAROLINE BATHOLOMEW, VICE CHAIRMAN, USCC: If the Chinese government wants to be taken seriously as a responsible partner in global affairs it must learn to balance its narrow self-interests with the greatest interest of the world community.
SCHIAVONE: From currency manipulation to a secretive military buildup to supporting oppressive regimes in exchange for natural resources, the report finds China is a bad actor on the world stage.
LARRY WERTZEL, CHAIRMAN, USCC: Its sense of responsibility in the way that American political leaders envisioned it has not kept up with that expanding power.
SCHIAVONE: The commission calls on Congress to press the Bush administration for World Trade Organization penalties against china for currency manipulation and intellectual piracy, call for more effective intelligence gathering about China's military buildup and development. Resist Chinese efforts to isolate Taiwan and call on the White House to pressure China to use its influence in Sudan to help end the slaughter in Darfur.
WILLIAM HAWKINS, U.S. BUSINESS & INDUSTRY COUNCIL: So they are using every device and every method they can to build up their industry, their military capabilities, amass money, amass technology, to be the next great power. SCHIAVONE: The commission is concerned about what appears to be China's intention to project power not only in the Pacific, but also in space, with sophisticated weapons that can take out U.S. command and control satellites.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chances of making a mistake that could lead to a conflict are greater. The Chinese are spending a lot on defense, a lot more than they say publicly and they have upgraded their military.
SCHIAVONE: In China's raw self interest, preventing nuclear proliferation in North Korea, the commission calls for a formal agreement whereby China would inspect ships at sea bound to or from North Korean ports.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE (on camera): Lou, the Bush administration defends its approach to China and agrees with the commission that China must be held to its commitments, but the commission is clearly concerned that China perceives its only commitment to itself. Lou?
DOBBS: Well, that's usually the case with nation states and should not come, as it apparently does, a shock to this administration or any other for that matter. Louise, thank you. Louise Schiavone from Washington.
When President Bush arrives in Hanoi, he won't have legislation in his pocket he had hoped for, a bill that would have normalized trade relation with Vietnam. The House of Representatives rejected that agreement in a vote this week. Not only that, rejected a further vote until later. Bill Tucker has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The wakeup call came Monday on the floor of the House during debate on the Vietnam trade bill.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH, (D) OH: Wake up, Congress! We've got close to an $800 billion trade deficit and this bill just keeps going in the same direction. Goodbye, American jobs, no workers' rights, no human rights, no environmental quality principles. Why are we doing this?
TUCKER: Kucinich can rail all he wants. It doesn't matter, because incredibly almost a month before that speech, the office the United States Trade Representative had already signed off on the agreement to allow Vietnam into the World Trade Organization. Congress gave the office that authority when it granted fast track approval on trade agreements.
LORI WALLACH, GLOBAL TRADE WATCH: So here you've got a situation where under the status quo a trade representative can just sign up Vietnam to join the WTO on behalf of the U.S. in October, and Congress doesn't even get a vote until November. TUCKER: And now that vote has been delayed until December. An embarrassment for the president on his way to Vietnam for economic talks.
GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: We hear voices calling us to retreat from the world and close our doors to its opportunities. These are the old temptations of isolationism and protectionism. And America must reject them.
TUCKER: While the president might find the involvement of the Congress to be inconvenient, the founders explicitly gave responsibility of trade affairs to Congress. Congressional involvement, in other words, is mandated and necessary.
ALAN TONELSON, U.S. BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY COUNCIL: When Congress gets involved, it is not being isolationist or protectionist, it's making sure that American trade policy serves the interests of the American people, American working families, and companies that make their products in the United States.
TUCKER: And that's a policy some have branded economic nationalism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (on camera): Now, critics of current trade policy are comfortable with that notion, asking the question, Lou, if Congress and the president are not making national policy in America's interest, well, then whose interests are they acting on?
DOBBS: And also the fundamental lack of control over our own sovereignty, of course, that has been superseded by the World Trade Organization, signatories to that, Congress doesn't even have the luxury of making an independent sovereign judgment about the relationship between commerce and foreign policy that it did have until we ceded that part of our sovereignty away.
Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
Well, Jacob Weisberg of slate.com recently wrote a column calling last week's winning Democrats the Lou Dobbs Democrats. He used the term to describe many of those who won on November 7th.
In his article he says that I'm not an independent populist, but rather an economic nationalist. Here is the quote. "The leading economic nationalist today is probably Lou Dobbs who natters," natters, Jacob, "on against free trade, outsourcing, globalization and immigration."
Jacob Weisberg, editor of slate.com, joins us here. Jacob, good to have you here.
JACOB WEISBERG, SLATE.COM EDITOR: Thank you, Lou. Sorry about the "nattering." But now I'll natter a little bit as well.
DOBBS: We'll have a natter off as it were. The idea of this issue of economic nationalist versus the idea of -- Whatever the label may be, why is economic nationalist your take on my position, on immigration, outsourcing, off-shoring, free trade? Why would that be?
WEISBERG: Well, I mean this really as a descriptive term. An economic populist is someone who tends to blame the rich for problems. An economic nationalist tends to blame foreigners or foreign countries. You do both. I think you are a populist and a nationalist.
DOBBS: Thank you very much for expanding my world.
The truth is I don't blame the poor of the world. I don't believe I ever have on this broadcast.
What I have blamed are the idiot elites in government and in business in this country that put our middle class in direct competition with the poor in those countries, and I have certainly blamed fully and frequently the CEOs in this country are making in a day what it takes two parents if a household is fortunate enough to have both parents, all year for both them to earn.
I think I blame pretty squarely the elites in this country, the wealthy, CEOs, senior executives that would do that.
WEISBERG: Where I think are you most wrong is to think that free trade hurts the middle class. There are people in specific, affected industries who are certainly losers from trade in a very specific way.
But overall, it helps everyone, and that's the economic logic of free trade is both sides win. I make a deal with you and we're both better off. The problem is the specific industry, you may lose out to foreign competition and we haven't done enough to help the people who have been the losers from not only free trade and globalization, but from technology gains and so forth.
DOBBS: To put a metaphor together, what you are really saying is we should serve up our middle class, some of them will be cannon fodder in the free trade contest, but we'll bring bandages for their wounds and try to carry out triage.
WEISBERG: Not at all, but ...
DOBBS: Here is the reality, though. Just see -- as we look at the facts of this, and that's all I'm interested in here, the facts. How many trade deficits have we run since the day Congress ceded its constitutional authority to the president on trade, 1976? How many consecutive trade deficits?
WEISBERG: I'm not sure I have the answer to the quiz question.
DOBBS: I'm sorry. I shouldn't put it as a - I don't mean to do that at all. It's 30 consecutive years. Over the course of the past 10 we've run up $5 trillion in trade debt. We've lost 4 million manufacturing jobs in this country in the past six. We've lost 3 million middle class jobs to outsourcing.
We have allowed our elites to put our middle class in direct competition with the cheapest labor in the world.
WEISBERG: Running a trade deficit as opposed to running a significant fiscal deficit over time isn't necessarily bad. We now exist in a globalized world. A very large number of middle class jobs are dependent on exporting. And we have jobs in this country that come when Toyota starts a plant here decides to employ 30,000 people to build cars in the U.S. If you cut yourself off from globalization, you make everybody poor.
DOBBS: See, you are starting to sound -- and this is what bothers me. You are starting to sound like a Bush administration economic spokesman. And I don't mean to insult you ...
WEISBERG: That's the first time I have been accused of that, but go on.
DOBBS: It's almost like - because this administration is trying to define me as an economic isolationist, a protectionist, because I want mutual, reciprocal, balanced trade. I want to see the United States export as much as it imports. I want to see those jobs created by exports.
Instead, what we're witnessing is a rising dependency in this country, not only on foreign oil, which is a great focus, but have a great dependency in this country on everything. From consumer electronics, computers, technology equipment, to the clothing we wear on foreign producers. We can't even clothe ourselves in this country.
WEISBERG: Well, first of all, there is some advantage to that. You did a report earlier in your show about people who are hungry in this country and I share your deploring food insecurity.
DOBBS: They are not hungry, they are food insecure. There are only 35 million of them and I am waiting to hear how free trade is going to solve that.
WEISBERG: My point is that everything would you do would make food more expensive, would make clothes more expensive, would make toys more expensive. And you would make those people worse off.
DOBBS: Wait a minute. I'm lost. What would I do?
WEISBERG: If for example, you pulled out of NAFTA or didn't pass another trade agreement.
DOBBS: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I have never said I would pull out of NAFTA. I have said I would reshape it and reform it. I have never said that I would put up a single tariff.
What I have said is that no free trade agreement would exist unless it were free trade. This is faith-based economics you and I are watching and all of us are feeling in this country, so that Wal- Mart can become the third largest export market for China's exports is absurd.
While inflation is rising in this country, while a pair of sneakers that cost $4 to build is being sold for $70 in this country. There are some huge disconnects. Meanwhile, we have had stagnant wages for 30 years in this country. This is not an economy that is benefiting all Americans.
WEISBERG: For one thing, if you have stagnant wages and I agree, that's a very serious problem and cheaper goods, people are doing better, not worse, because they are making the same amount of money and goods cost them less. But that's only part of the argument for free trade. It's that these jobs depend on ...
DOBBS: Do you really suggest this is free trade being practiced by this administration?
WEISBERG: I do. Well, I'm not a defender of the administration. But I think all of the trade agreements, the World Trade Organization, free trade with Vietnam, all of these things will make us better off and they will make the countries we deal with better off. It's happening all the time.
DOBBS: Do you know that the U.S. Trade Representative's office has said on two separate occasions, once with its trade representative and secondly with the deputy trade representative, acknowledged that each one of our free trade agreements has resulted and will result in higher surpluses for our trading partners in every instance. So when you talk about bilateral trade, the cumulative effect is an ever- increasing deficit.
WEISBERG: These aren't deals that say we'll buy as much as we sell. These are deals that say we're going to have free trade, and if we're competitive, you will buy us from and you'll sell to us.
DOBBS: Yes, it says all of that and what we have seen is the outsourcing of 3 million jobs, 14 million more in jeopardy right now. We have seen wages stagnate, not rise. Prosperity not expand across this society, but narrow.
Thirty-thousand dollars. Do you know how many people make less than $30,000 in this country? Half. Half of the people. And when here, orthodox people either on the left or right, and I'm not going to suggest that you're either one, but the idea of not looking at the facts completely confounds me.
WEISBERG: What are the facts? I'm not a defender of Bush economic policy but 4.4 percent unemployment is hardly an economic crisis.
DOBBS: It is in your judgment. For 35 million people who are hungry, not food insecure, for 48 million people who do not have health insurance in this country, this is ...
WEISBERG: The problem is I agree with you those are the problems, but if we took your prescription, those numbers would go up.
DOBBS: What is my prescription?
WEISBERG: Your prescription, I think, is to pull back from globalization and free trade agreements.
DOBBS: No, my prescription is to engage in globalization, to engage in mutual, reciprocal and balanced trade.
WEISBERG: Balanced trade is not free trade. Free trade agreements ...
DOBBS: I'm sorry. What would you call then what's being practiced by China, Germany, France, India? What would you call what they are practicing?
WEISBERG: Well, one thing, fast growth led by exports and competing in the world economy.
DOBBS: What it is, is balanced, reciprocal trade. It's being practiced even by communist China.
WEISBERG: You can't find a trade deal that says we're going to have balanced trade.
DOBBS: No, I can't find a trade agreement carved by this administration or the previous that makes any sense on any basis for the economic interests of the United States whatsoever. And by the way, I am an independent populist, not an economic nationalist. Jacob, I enjoy talking with you. Come on back soon and we'll take this up.
WEISBERG: Thank you for having me on.
DOBBS: Do me a favor. Think about the facts. The facts ...
WEISBERG: I don't think I have neglected to think about the facts, Lou.
DOBBS: OK, then. Let's organize them correctly. Jacob, thank you very much.
We'll continue this nattering. Up next, push back in Washington over the president's handling of the war in Iraq and the administration's approach towards the Middle East. "Washington Post" military correspondent Thomas Ricks, the author of the best-selling book "Fiasco" joins me. We'll be talking about the impact of the Democratic sweep in the November 7th elections on prospective U.S. military strategy and whether there is one at work in Iraq at all now. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: More than 2,000 more of our marines are headed to Iraq. Democrats calling for a change in direction in Iraq. There will be a new secretary of defense. And for a look at what's in store for us, we are now joined by Thomas Ricks, military correspondent for "The Washington Post." Author of the best-selling book, "Fiasco" and joining us General David Grange, as well, the military analyst for this broadcast.
We thank you, both, gentlemen, for being here. Tom Ricks, you heard General Abizaid yesterday say that he is not preserving the status quo under questioning by Senator John McCain. What in the world is he doing then?
THOMAS RICKS, AUTHOR, "FIASCO": Well, he says he's not preserving the status quo, but what Senator McCain's objection was that he really wasn't talking about major change in Iraq. The only thing he seemed to want to change was the size of the U.S. advisory teams currently there, about 11 people a team and doubling them to about 22. McCain indicated he did not believe this was major change.
DOBBS: General Grange, the idea that there is still no straight- forward, articulated strategy in Iraq, that more of our men and women in uniform are being killed there. To hear General Abizaid yesterday, I don't know about you -- well, let me just ask you. Were you inspired by his assessment and prescription for the future in Iraq?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I believe it has to be more of a strategy than it was in testimony. A couple of things have to happen. One, yes, double the size of the advisory teams, but also establish and it has to be a surge, to do that establish combined Iraqi-U.S. forces so have the capabilities to move anywhere you need to to take on opponents.
You must do something about the militia, because it's only going to get worse. You have about a four to six-month window, I think, to do that and then I would send brigade size elements, 3,000 to 5,000 troops a piece on the Iranian border, Syrian border, Anbar Province, just to demonstrate resolve and to intimidate and for psychological effect on our adversaries.
DOBBS: Tom Ricks, let me ask you this. We have seen secretary of defense Rumsfeld resign. At the same time, in the background, we have seen a Chinese, a communist Chinese diesel submarine successfully engage within five miles and surface with the Kitty Hawk carrier group.
We have seen the head of PACCOM say that they really weren't on anti submarine duty at the time and its really important we have joint operations with the communist Chinese and we have got General Abizaid we don't need troops, but the next day moving 2,200 more of our marines into al Anbar province, which had just been effectively abandoned to raise security in - not abandoned, I shouldn't say that, but had diminished in terms of our forces to provide greater security in Baghdad, where there isn't greater security today. What is your assessment of these developments?
RICKS: I think the single most significant event going on in all of this is that Republicans have stopped supporting the president's policy on Iraq. I'm talking about congressional Republicans. It was striking yesterday to see Senator Saxby Chambliss, Republican of Georgia, speak to General Abizaid, and say why should we believe this? You have been saying the same things for four years. He sounded, this conservative Republican sounded like Hillary Clinton sounded six months ago. So I don't think that it's the Democrats calling for change, it's the Republicans who are insisting on change that's the really significant national security event that I see going on right now.
The politics of Iraq and the politics of national security are shifting extremely quickly.
DOBBS: In what direction would you say they are shifting?
RICKS: In about five different directions at once. I think the Democrats are saying, yeah, there has got to be change in Iraq, but we're not going to lead the change, because the last time we led the change in Vietnam, we got blamed for the collapse there so, Republicans, it's your problem, you figure it out and the Republicans know they have to figure it out because they don't want to campaign in '08 with Iraq hanging around their neck like an albatross like they did in '06, so they see they have got themselves about 18 months to get Robert Gates confirmed as defense secretary and go in and fix Iraq before the '08 campaign begins.
DOBBS: General Grange, I have to tell you, as Tom Ricks says that, 18 months. You are going to have to put me down as unpatriotic and soft on Iraq. The idea of losing more Americans over the course of a year and a half does not sit well with me. It sticks in my craw. Because I don't see clear goals, clear strategy. And I don't think a lot of Americans do, either.
Give us your best military insight into what in the world we should be doing there?
GRANGE: We have this four- to six-month window, I believe, to actually have a chance to win this thing. And the winning may not look the way we like it but it's not leaving where we're going to be a loser and so are the Iraqi people and this region of the world. So we have to do something.
Talk about who has the blame. I don't understand why we're so concerned about that piece of it. Why can't someone just lead these things to victory? Get the military back on its feet the way it should be to take on the challenges of the 21st century. Which is quite apparent. This is not an easy challenge for this country.
DOBBS: Let me ask you straight up. What is the world is West Point producing amongst this group of generals, this war has taken longer than World War II. Not a single general has been fired and every general talks about patience. And General Abizaid is sitting there sounding like a politician instead of a general when he's standing before Congress. Tom Ricks, you both answer that if you would.
GRANGE: Go ahead, Tom.
RICKS: Well, General Abizaid I think got hit pretty hard yesterday. It was striking to see the leading Republican candidate, Senator McCain and the leading Democratic presidential contender, Senator Clinton, both beat up on General Abizaid. I have not seen that in several years.
The lack of deference towards the military is another one of the major shifts that is going on politically and I think is going to be a major story over the next couple of years.
DOBBS: You get the last word, general.
GRANGE: Lou, it's an Abraham Lincoln commanding a Grant and a Marshall to accomplish this mission. That's what's needed.
DOBBS: Where do we find Grant and Marshall in this general staff?
GRANGE: They are out there.
DOBBS: General Grange, thank you very much. We are glad you are our Grant and Marshall combined on this broadcast. Tom Ricks, we thank you very much. The author of the best-selling book "Fiasco." We wish the title were less apropos. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
Still ahead, the results of our poll. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Sixty-four percent of you responding the newly elected Democratic Congress won't be able to come together successfully in putting middle class Americans first. We thank you for being with us. Thanks for watching. Good night from New York.
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