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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bush Considering All Options on Iraq; Top Senate Democrat Blasts Bush on Iraq Strategy; Iraq Troop Increase?; Mitt Romney Authorizes Training Of Massachusetts State Police For Immigration Enforcement; Rosa DeLauro Interview
Aired December 13, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, President Bush meets the military's top brass at the Pentagon. Will the president send tens of thousands of more troops to Iraq? We'll have complete coverage tonight from the White House, the Pentagon and Capitol Hill.
Also, the federal government promising to carry out more raids against American companies employing illegal aliens. Labor leaders are protesting those raids and ignoring the fact that illegal aliens are driving down the wages of some American workers.
We'll have that special report and a great deal more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Wednesday, December 13th.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush today went to the Pentagon and declared that he won't be rushed into changing his mind or policy about the war in Iraq. After meeting with the military's top generals, President Bush said the United States will not give up in Iraq. But the president gave no indication how he might change his strategy.
One option is to raise the number of our troops in Iraq. Perhaps by as many as 40,000 soldiers and Marines to about 180,000 troops.
Ed Henry tonight reports from the White House on the president's refusal to give into pressure to make a quick decision on changing his strategy.
Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill on a blistering attack on the president today by one of the most powerful Senate Democrats.
And Jamie McIntyre reporting from the Pentagon on whether the military is recommending an increase in U.S. troop strength in Iraq.
We turn first to Ed Henry at the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it was one week ago today that the Iraq Study Group told the president the situation in Iraq is grave and deteriorating, that time is of the essence, but the president declared today he is not going to be rushed, he's determined to take his time to get this right.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): President Bush wrapped up the public phase of his listening tour at the Pentagon with a direct message to U.S. troops wondering about his next move in Iraq, declaring that despite the public pressure, he's not bringing them home anytime soon.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You have my unshakable commitment in this important fight to help secure the peace for the long term. We're not going to give up. The stakes are too high and the consequences too grave to turn Iraq over to extremists who want to do the American people and the Iraqi people harm.
HENRY: With even his incoming defense secretary Robert Gates saying the U.S. is not winning in Iraq, the president tried to reassure the nation that military commanders insist progress is being made in.
BUSH: In the months of October, November and the first week of December, we have killed or captured nearly 5,900 of the enemy.
HENRY: But amid criticism his administration has downplayed the sectarian strife, the president was brutally frank.
BUSH: The violence has been horrific. Scores of innocent men, women and children are being brutally killed by ruthless murderers.
HENRY: The president revealed he delayed his speech unveiling a new strategy because he does not want to be rushed into a snap decision.
BUSH: I've heard some ideas that would lead to defeat. And I reject those ideas. Ideas such as leaving before the job is done.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Now, people close to deliberations say one idea the president is considering is sending more U.S. troops to Iraq on a short-term basis, try to stabilize the situation. A controversial move, but some conservatives pushing the White House to do that, saying this is the last, best chance at victory -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed, is there a discussion at the White House to articulate a strategy for victory?
HENRY: There's an ongoing conversation, you can bet, about that. They -- as I noted at the top, the Iraq Study Group said that it had to be decided quickly, but the president is insisting he wants to take his time. He realizes, as leaders in both parties are saying, this may be the last chance of getting it right, so he's determined to take his time -- Lou.
DOBBS: A number of divisions of our troops are now serving in Iraq for a third time. The head of the Marine Corps saying he desperately needs more Marines. The Army acknowledging it needs more troops.
Equipment breaking down, wearing out after almost four years of warfare. Is there a discussion at the White House, as far as you know, about increasing the size of the U.S. military? Is there any discussion about, perhaps, putting in place a path to a draft?
HENRY: Well, not about the draft, but there certainly is a discussion about increasing the size of the military, getting them more resources. But as you know, there are limited resources for this government.
There's already a deficit. And that's one of the most controversial portions of whether or not to send more troops to Iraq, whether it's on a short-term basis or not.
Do we have enough troops to actually go there, even if it's for only three months, six months, are there enough? And also, what does that end up leaving the U.S. vulnerable in other parts of the world, if, in fact, more U.S. troops are in Iraq? That obviously could show some more vulnerability in other parts of the world -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed Henry from the White House.
Thank you, Ed.
A clear warning today about what could happen in Iraq if the president were to withdraw our troops quickly. Saudi Arabia saying it would help the Sunni community in Iraq, raising the possibility of a full-scale civil war, perhaps drawing in regional countries.
Saudi Arabia leaders giving the warning to Vice President Dick Cheney while he was in Riyadh last month. One American source said the Saudis "read the riot act" to the vice president about the worsening conflict in Iraq.
President Bush today promised to work with Congress to forge a bipartisan consensus on the war in Iraq, but congressional Democrats rapidly losing patience with the president's so-called listening tour. The incoming chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Carl Levin, today demanded the president take action now.
Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the Senate's top Democrat on military matters, a call for President Bush to immediately deliver a clear message to the Iraqi government.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: That the U.S. commitment to Iraq is not open-ended, it is not unconditional.
BASH: Senator Carl Levin says that word must be sent before this weekend's reconciliation conference in Baghdad, an effort by Iraq's prime minister to bring together deeply divided sectarian factions to search for new ways to reduce violence and mistrust. LEVIN: That message would reverberate in a very, very important way to the Iraqi leaders, to let them know that the pressure is on them to make the compromises.
BASH: Levin argues the only way to find stability in Iraq is to force its fledgling government to find political agreement and says this Bush refrain is exactly the wrong way to get them there.
BUSH: The presence of the United States will be in Iraq so long as the government asks us to be in Iraq.
LEVIN: It is that open-ended commitment which has taken the heat and the pressure off the Iraqis to resolve their differences politically.
BASH: At the White House, Levin's plea was duly noted, but not embraced.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Iraqis have plenty of incentive to take full governance of their country and also to fight terror.
BASH: As the president mulls the larger change in course in Iraq, Senator Levin rejected an idea Mr. Bush is seriously considering, according to administration officials -- sending more troops in the short-term.
LEVIN: I think it would be a mistake because it gets us in deeper rather than getting us out, and mainly because it's a political solution which is required here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And the reality is the new Democratic majority will have very few real tools to affect the policy, this policy change, going forward in Iraq.
One thing that Congress does have, of course, is the power of the purse, but Senator Carl Levin, like other Democrats, today rejected the idea of cutting off funding for the war. He said that that would be a "repeat of Vietnam," where the troops get the impression that they have less than total support from Washington -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you.
Dana Bash reporting from Capitol Hill.
Several top members of Congress are in Baghdad tonight trying to make their own assessment of the chaos there. The group includes Senator John McCain and Senator Joe Lieberman. The senators met with the Iraqi prime minister and other Iraqi leaders. The delegation telling the Iraqis they must demonstrate much stronger leadership in order to prevent the country from entering all-out civil war.
As we reported, some U.S. military commanders say the United States must send tens of thousands more troops to Iraq. Supporters of the idea say U.S. reinforcements could help reduce the violence, and that would give Iraqi politicians more time to reach some form of political judgment.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush is considering ignoring the advice of the Iraq Study Group and some of his top commanders by ordering tens of thousands of U.S. reinforcements to the worse parts of Iraq. It would be a desperate attempt to stop the killing that has undermined the chances for political reconciliation. But it's also an option that was flatly rejected just last month by the top commander for Iraq, General John Abizaid.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: No, I do not believe that more American troops right now is the solution to the problem.
MCINTYRE: Abizaid says he polled every division commander in Iraq and they agree with him. But critics who have the ear of the president argue that current military leaders are too stuck on their old strategy.
KENNETH ADELMAN, FMR. PENTAGON ADVISER: The generals in the Pentagon are going to say, you know, steady as she I goes, but that means, in essence, steady as she sinks.
MCINTYRE: Ken Adelman was a former adviser to outgoing defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld. He once predicted toppling Saddam Hussein would be a cakewalk. Now he says his former boss is in denial about how dire things are.
ADELMAN: What I would do is double the American troops in Baghdad for the next six months, and I would change the commanders in Iraq. Generals Abizaid and Casey are patriotic and wonderful people, but they haven't gotten the job done.
MCINTYRE: The big question is whether a surge of troops in the short term would really change the outcome in the end. Most experts are pessimistic.
ANTHONY CORDESMAN, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: There was a time where a combination of the best Army units in the U.S. could control Baghdad and limit the Mehdi army. I don't know if that's still possible.
MCINTYRE: The problem, says one expert who met with President Bush this week, is that unless really large numbers of troops, perhaps 50,000 to 100,000 are sent, and they stay, the likely result is simply more U.S. deaths.
STEPHEN BIDDLE, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: So we end up with a situation in which we're very unlikely in one or two years to have made much headway. The situation, in all probability with these midrange troop strengths, is going to get worse, not better. In the meantime, we're going to be continuing to hemorrhage casualties.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, the Iraq Study Group rejected the idea of sending a lot more troops, because they concluded the U.S. military simply isn't large enough. But, Lou, as you've noted, now both the Army and Marine Corps want to grow significantly larger. But still, even those fresh recruits would doubtfully be available to send to Iraq anytime soon -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, the conundrum the United States and particularly the U.S. military faces, this does not sound, at least as a backdrop to the Baker-Hamilton report or to the assessments apparently being made by the president, as a bold and innovative, fresh, dynamic group of thinkers sitting there at the Pentagon. No discussion, for example, of rules of engagement or better tactics in which to destroy the enemy and achieve obtainable goals.
Why is that?
MCINTYRE: Well, you know, in fairness, Lou, we don't know what the Joint Chiefs have come up with and what they told President Bush in the secure briefing room known as "The Tank" today. We know that they've spent a lot of time coming up with them, but, you know, what critics say about the Iraq Study Group's report is it's too much -- it's too much of a consensus, trying to play it right down the middle.
And as you said, it's not a bold plan. So, what we're seeing is a move toward either going in really big and really trying to change the dynamic that way, or, as Ken Adelman suggested, maybe it's time to just get out and cut the losses.
DOBBS: Either way, leadership has to be foremost based upon decisiveness. That we'll wait upon apparently.
Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Thank you.
More on the war in Iraq later. We'll have a special report from our correspondent in Baghdad.
And union leaders are blasting the federal government for having the audacity to arrest illegal aliens employed illegally at meat- packing plants. Is organized labor representing the interests of illegal aliens, the interests of its workers, or the interests of the United States?
We'll have that special report.
And the disturbing truth about this government's failure to stop illegal immigration and to stop illegal aliens and others from stealing your identity.
And more senior citizens are falling into poverty in this country. Many now depending upon their credit cards to pay for basic living costs.
Our special report, "War on the Middle Class," next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New developments tonight in yesterday's immigration raids on Swift & Company meat-packing plants in six states. Swift executives said they never knowingly hired illegal aliens, but Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials today said Swift knew for months that hundreds of their employees were working with stolen identities.
We have two reports tonight.
Casey Wian reporting on the latest on the illegal immigration raids. And Christine Romans reporting on new concerns tonight about how easy it is for illegal aliens to steal your identity.
We begin with Casey Wian in Los Angeles -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Immigration and Customs Enforcement say yesterday's Operation Wagon Train raids were the largest work site enforcement actions in the agency's history. At the same time, union leaders are actually complaining now that federal immigration authorities are actually doing their jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): The Department of Homeland Security now says it arrested nearly 1,300 illegal aliens in raids at six Swift & Company meat-packing plants Tuesday. So far, 65 of them are being charged criminally with stealing the identities of Americans to obtain jobs.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Illegal documents are not only used by illegal migrants, but they are used by terrorists who want to get on airplanes or criminals who want to prey on our citizens.
WIAN: During the 11-month investigation, Chertoff says Swift tried to block ICE from doing raids by filing a lawsuit which was rejected by a federal judge. This fall, Swift conducted its own interviews of 400 suspected employees and found that 90 to 95 percent of them either had phony identification documents or were, in fact, illegal aliens.
They got away.
CHERTOFF: Over 400 workers were terminated, quit, or did not show up. ICE wasn't notified, and we don't know where those 400 workers are.
WIAN: Federal authorities say Swift is not being charged but stressed their investigation continues. Swift did not return our calls but says in a statement its facilities are back in business.
Also complaining about the raids, United Food and Commercial Workers Union.
MARK LAURITSEN, INTERNATIONAL V.P., UFCW UNION: Yesterday, 13,000 hard-working men and women went to work, only to find that after they got to work, their lives, their families, their communities were disrupted. They were disrupted when agents of ICE stormed the plants, locked the gates, corralled and herded up the working people in this country and segregated them off, detained and moved them to parts unknown.
WIAN: He neglected to mention that real wages in the meat- packing industry have plunged 24 percent since 1982, largely because of the increased availability of cheap illegal alien labor.
ICE promises more crackdowns on identity thieves and illegal aliens in the meat-packing and other U.S. industries.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Now, perhaps surprisingly, federal authorities and the union did agree on one thing -- they both say the raids point out the need for so-called comprehensive immigration reform -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, they both can frankly take their political nonsense and stuff it. The fact is, those illegal aliens are employed illegally by an illegal employer. And for that union official who has a responsibility to American citizens who are paying dues to sit there and talk about ICE corralling, herding, storming the plant, I mean, he is simply outrageous.
WIAN: Yes, this is the same union that's seen its membership in this industry decline, seen plants close, seeing a growing number of illegal alien workers taking over this industry. Perhaps they see that as the only potential area for growth in terms of new membership -- Lou.
DOBBS: The United Food and Commercial Union, I -- we would be delighted to sit down with your leadership here on this broadcast and get your views out before the American people, because that union, in point of fact, taking that position, is supporting illegal activity in this country, and I think really owes the American people both an explanation and an outright apology for that position.
Casey, let me ask you this -- did the secretary of Homeland Security -- and I want to compliment Michael Chertoff for actually doing something in conducting these raids and enforcing the law -- did he just refer to those illegal aliens as illegal migrants?
WIAN: Yes, he did -- Lou.
DOBBS: What in the world is he -- it's one thing for Vicente Fox and Felipe Calderon, now the president of Mexico, to be in charge of U.S. immigration policy, but now U.S. officials are actually using the language of the Mexican government?
WIAN: I believe he said "illegal aliens" elsewhere in his news conference. I can't be sure it. But he did use "illegal migrants" there, you heard it right.
DOBBS: Unbelievable.
Casey, thank you very much.
Casey Wian from Los Angeles.
Many of the illegal aliens caught up in the crackdown yesterday as ICE stormed those plants were outraged that those raids were carried out on a Mexican holy day. December 12th is the Mexicans' -- the day that Mexicans honor their national icon, the Virgin of Guadeloupe.
We apologize, I'm sure, to all of those illegal aliens who were offended that the United States chose to actually enforce its laws on one of your national holidays in Mexico. Perhaps if you would like to celebrate that holiday, it would be better to do so in Mexico legally.
The government's efforts to protect Americans from identity theft haven't been successful, in part because some say privacy laws prevent government agencies from sharing information that would bring the use of stolen identities to -- to the attention of authorities. We wouldn't want to do that.
Christine Romans has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Immigration raids in meat-packing plants in six states. It all began in prison.
Immigration officials interviewing criminal aliens noticed a pattern. Again and again, illegal aliens serving time on unrelated charges reported they had worked for the same meat-packer, Swift, using stolen identities.
A spokeswoman for ICE calls it a new trend. She says, "Instead of obtaining fraudulent documents and fraudulent identities, illegal aliens are getting genuine documents with real identities of unwitting U.S. citizens."
The government calls them identity impostors. This crime doesn't raise red flags when verifying legal status because names and Social Security numbers match.
And how well is the government clamping down on the theft of your identity by illegal aliens?
PAUL DONNELLY, IMMIGRATION CONSULTANT: The government is not doing a very good job at all. Everybody knows this, and we've known this for 20 years. We have to get past the idea that there is some "privacy right" to steal an American's identity.
ROMANS: Donnelly is referring to the common refrain that privacy laws prevent IRS, the Social Security Administration and others from sharing taxpayer information with law enforcement. But the Government Accountability Office found in a report these agencies must begin sharing information "to deter SSN abuse and violations of immigration laws."
PETER STERGIOS, MCCARTER & ENGLISH: Somebody or some group of those with authority to do it has to simplify the law, clarify the law, and eliminate all the ways that identity thefts can carry on their business.
ROMANS: The president has the authority to make this a priority in immigration reform, but has not done so. Instead, the GAO finds there is overlap, disarray and agencies working at cross-purposes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Congressman Clay Shaw estimates at least half of the illegal workers in this country -- at least half are using someone else's Social Security number. That means that millions of Americans and legal permanent residents are affected.
Last year, the inspector general of the Social Security Administration had only a few hundred conviction of illegal alien identity theft of some 10,000 investigations.
DOBBS: And we should say that that report was scathing that the federal government is not sharing that information between IRS, Social Security Administration.
By the way, just to be absolutely crystal clear, the president of the United States, with one sweep of his pen, could change all of that through executive order.
ROMANS: One attorney today said, "How come you can have warrantless wiretaps and no one worries about privacy laws, but something as pervasive as this raises all these red flags in Washington?" He says it is political will. There is not a political will in Washington to do this.
DOBBS: Oh yes there is. There absolutely is. It's the political will of corporate America and their bought-and-paid for political parties. And the Democrats and the Republicans and this president is their -- what would you call him? He's sort of their lead steward for corporate interests over the good of this country.
This raid on meat-packing plants, where wages have declined from $19 to $9 an hour in many parts of the country -- and that union official just aggravates the dickens out of me, sitting there defending this conduct and criticizing ICE for doing its job, but where did that investigation actually begin?
ROMANS: As we pointed out, that investigation began behind bars in federal prison. The Immigration and Customs Enforcement people, they go in and they interview criminal aliens when they begin serving their time. They always do. And they found a pattern that, over and over again, people were saying, "Oh, I worked for Swift, I was in the country illegally, I had a job with a stolen identity of an American citizen," and then went on to commit a different crime and landed in prison
DOBBS: And again, as we've reported here, and as ICE is making very clear now, using that -- that stolen credit card -- Social Security card, that's a felony.
ROMANS: It's a felony.
DOBBS: This is not a misdemeanor.
ROMANS: It's a felony. Felon five -- five years, right.
DOBBS: And it's not a felony, by the way, to sell an illegal alien a Social Security card.
Amazing. As the saying goes, what a country.
Christine, thanks.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
DOBBS: Christine Romans.
Coming up next, three of our political analysts join us, the best in the country, to assess what in the world is going on in this country.
And senior citizens on fixed incomes face rising costs for everything from housing to medical care. And like most of America's middle class, they are sinking deeper and deeper into debt.
We'll have that special report. And we'll tell you what people are doing about it or not in our fair national capital.
And the co-chair of the Congressional Food Safety Caucus says our food safety process has collapsed. Can the American -- the national food supply be protected? I'll be talking with Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro here next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A disturbing new study shows that a growing number of our senior citizens are turning to credit cards to pay for their basic necessities. For many, a fixed income simply not enough to cover costs that are rising astronomically, costs like housing, heat, medication and a multitude of other expenses.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Golden years of retirement, not quite what many had pictured. Seniors were historically the comfortable generation. The house paid, living expenses modest, and debt levels for seniors used to historically very low, a few hundred dollars.
But now, AARP figures found 93 percent of retirees said they had debt, on average, $5,000. Thirty percent of retirees describe their debt as a problem. A recent study by the National Consumer Law Center found many older consumers are using credit cards for day-to-day expenses and as a plastic safety net for an unforeseen spike in expenses.
TAMARA DRAUT, DEMOS: We're starting to see that retirement is now becoming less with lots of leisure time and more and more with lots of financial worries. When you look at the middle-class, we're seeing more debt. And a lot of that has to do with the out-of-control health care costs that are hitting Americans of all ages.
PILGRIM: One in three seniors has to live almost entirely on their Social Security checks. But while Social Security costs of living increases have been three percent a year, prescription drug prices have soared ten percent a year for a decade.
And the housing boom has a hidden cost for retired Americans, even if they have paid off the mortgage.
DAVID CERTNER, SENIOR COUNSEL, AARP: Some people who have been in homes for a long period of time, they may be house rich, but it's the same home they've always lived in and they may not be able to afford the property taxes anymore.
PILGRIM: Energy and utility costs have put pressure on budgets. One in four of older households spends nearly 20 percent of their income on energy costs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, part of the problem has been the easy availability of credit. Older people are more often turning to credit cards to think -- for a temporary solution to a spike in expenses. Then they find it's impossible to handle the financing fees on a fixed income, so they get deeper and deeper into debt -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Kitty Pilgrim.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Rich in Wisconsin: "Lou, your editorial today" -- referring to my column on CNN.com, which, if you'd like to look at it, is still on CNN.com or on LouDobbs.com -- "you editorial today regarding Christmas is dead on. Sensibility and freedom of speech are what allow us to be individuals in the United States. Merry Christmas!"
And to you.
And Jim in Tennessee: "Thanks for you commentary concerning political correctness, not only about Merry Christmas, but about almost every facet of the America I once knew." And Barbara in New York: "Read you commentary: Bah Humbug to the politically correct and all I can say is 'Amen, you are so right.' By the way, I am Jewish."
E-mail us at LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book "War on the Middle Class".
And as I said, for more of my thoughts about political correctness in that Seattle-Tacoma Airport Christmas tree controversy and PC gone crazy in this country, especially at this time of the year it seems, read my column on LouDobbs.com or CNN.com.
That brings to us our poll question tonight.
Are you offended if a Christian wishes you Merry Christmas or if a Jew wishes you Happy Hanukkah? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com.
We will have the results here, politically correct, I assure you, in form, later in the broadcast.
Coming up next, the influx of illegal aliens has become so severe, states are setting up their own border-patrol teams. We'll have that special report.
Thousands of Americans die each year because of something they ate. A leading congresswoman joins us to explain her plan to fix our collapsing national food supply safety system.
And our panel of distinguished political analysts join us to weigh in on the president's policies.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senator Tim Johnson is in the hospital tonight after suffering what may have been a stroke. The South Dakota Democrat is now undergoing evaluation at George Washington University Hospital. A South Dakota news organization saying that if he is unable to serve out his term for any reason, his replacement would be appointed by South Dakota's governor, who is a Republican.
The Democrats now hold a 51-49 edge in the Senate. Of course, one more Republican would result in an even split within the Senate.
States are taking steps on their own now to deal with the illegal immigration crisis. The governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney, today authorized the training of Massachusetts State Police for immigration enforcement. Colorado is creating a state police unit exclusively to enforce immigration laws.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Training for 30 Massachusetts State Troopers begins next month. They will be trained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement under 287G of immigration law, allowing them to identify suspects in criminal investigations as illegal aliens and identify illegal aliens already serving time in state jail so they can be deported.
The state of Colorado is also involved, taking the crackdown even further. It's creating a unit of Colorado State Patrol exclusively for immigration enforcement to enforce laws passed this summer, making human smuggling and trafficking state felonies. The unit is on target to be up and running by July 1st of next year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to be interviewing in the very near future approximately 50 individuals for those 19 spots. And many of them have expressed interest in multiple duty assignments throughout the state.
TUCKER: A good example of the kinds of investigations the unit expects to be involved in is the crash last month on Interstate 70, where four people died, ten were hospitalized and the driver, a Mexican national, fled the scene. He was later captured and charged with human trafficking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: MALE: The officers assigned to my unit will not be conducting any raids. They won't be going through businesses. They won't be driving up and down the highways looking for van loads full of individuals. These officers are only going to exercise their 287G authority.
TUCKER: Police in Florida, Alabama and in parts of North Carolina, Arizona and California are already trained under 287G. But just how long the program in Massachusetts will last is already in question. Governor Romney leaves office at the beginning of next year. His successor says he's considering rescinding the program when he takes office.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (on camera): Governor-elect Deval Patrick says he thinks the Massachusetts State Police already have enough to do without identifying suspects in criminal investigations as illegal aliens. But, Lou, Patrick says he hasn't made up his mind yet about whether he will rescind the program or not.
DOBBS: Well, that's -- that's comforting, that the governor- elect has carefully evaluated that.
Thank you very much, Bill Tucker.
Just ahead here, more than 70 million Americans each year fall ill from contaminated food. Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro joins us here next with her thoughts about what we must do to protect our national food supply.
And will tens of thousands more of our troops be going to Iraq? I'll be talking about that possibility, and a lot more, with three of the country's best political minds here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Federal health officials tonight say that lettuce is the most likely source of the outbreak of E. coli that made more than 60 people ill and shut down Taco Bells all over the country. The outbreak and several others in recent months have brought calls for tougher regulation of the nation's food supply.
Joining me now is Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro. She is the ranking member of the House Appropriations Agriculture Subcommittee and co- chair of the Congressional Food Safety Caucus.
Congresswoman, good to have you here.
REP. ROSA DELAURO (D), CONNECTICUT: It's wonderful to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's start with what in the world is going on. I mean, we're talking about each year, 75 million Americans...
DELAURO: Right.
DOBBS: ... getting sick because of unsafe food. As many as 5,000 of those people die while more than 300,000 are hospitalized.
DELAURO: That's right.
DOBBS: I mean, this is outrageous. What is going on, in your -- because you've been working on this issue for some time. What is going on?
DELAURO: Well, you stated it well. That's -- I mean, those are the facts and there's a very serious, serious problem here and it's, in my view, a collapse of the food safety system.
Watch -- look what happened with the Taco Bell effort. The things are so bad that you've got an industry that is asking for government regulation. I mean, that is unprecedented. And what we need to do and what I want to do in being able to take the chairmanship of this subcommittee in January...
DOBBS: Right.
DELAURO: ... is to have a hearing and to focus in on food safety. Let's ask the question has self-regulation gone too far? Are there enough inspectors? Resources? Are there enough resources? Are there management shortfalls? We have to examine this at the federal, state, and the local level.
And what we need to do is we need to -- what I want to do is to bring back and restore the oversight capacity of the federal agencies that deal with food safety.
DOBBS: Right.
DELAURO: We are charged with protecting public health, and today, we are not doing the job that we have been charged to do.
DOBBS: The Food and Drug Administration, as you well know, has about 2,000 inspectors to look at about 80 percent of our total food supply in this country.
DELAURO: That's right.
DOBBS: We continue to import more and more and more of our food, which is not being inspected. What are we going to be able to do in the short term? Because this is becoming -- we're starting to look like a third-world nation in my opinion.
DELAURO: Well, we've got to identify whether the problem is resources or management and some of the things that -- you know, that I have laid out. You're right. Only about one percent of imported food is inspected today.
And the fact is, is that legislation that I have introduced, that Senator Durbin has introduced, says let's look at a single food safety agency. Lou, you have 12 different agencies that are looking at food safety. Let me just give you this example, because of the Taco Bell.
DOBBS: Let me just say one thing.
DELAURO: Sure.
DOBBS: You're talking about the Safe Food Act which you introduced a year-and-a-half ago.
DELAURO: That's right. That's right. And we haven't been able to, you know, raise the support level. I'm hoping that these kinds of outbreaks will do that. But take a look. It's now maybe lettuce or cheese that's caused the Taco Bell problem. Lettuce is regulated by FDA, and cheese by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. This is crazy.
DOBBS: Yes.
DELAURO: Let's look at regularized inspections. Let's look at tracing back the...
DOBBS: You mean actually have the United States government actually do something in the national interests and for the common good? All right. Congresswoman, as always, good to talk with you.
DELAURO: Good to talk to you.
DOBBS: Thank you. We look forward to your hearings come January, and congratulations on your appointment.
DOBBS: Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Happy holidays.
DELAURO: Happy holidays to you, and merry Christmas.
DOBBS: Thank you.
A reminder tonight to vote in tonight's poll. Are you offended if a Christian wishes you a merry Christmas or a Jew wishes you a happy Hanukkah? Tell us, yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have those results for you here in just a few moments as we continue to probe the intricacies of political correctness.
Up next, despite promises of bipartisan cooperation Democrats are ratcheting up the pressure on the president to change course quickly in Iraq. I'll be talking with three of the sharpest political minds in the country. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up shortly here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer.
Wolf, tell us about it.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou.
Control of the Senate hanging in the balance after a key Democrat suffers stroke-like symptoms. Could power shift back to the Republicans? We're covering this unfolding story.
Americans in Tehran -- David Duke. He spoke out at a conference questioning the Holocaust, and today he's in THE SITUATION ROOM. I'll ask him some of the tough questions.
Plus, Saudi threat -- Vice President Dick Cheney has read the riot act by King Abdullah. We'll find out why the Saudis are now threatening to stoke what some fear could turn into an all-out regional war.
And Jack the Ripper -- the race against time to catch a modern- day serial killer.
All that, Lou, coming up here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much.
Joining me now, three of my favorite people and three of the best political minds in the country: former White House political director, Republican strategist, Ed Rollins; Democratic strategist, Democratic National Committee member Robert Zimmerman; "New York Daily News" Errol Louis, member of the Editorial Board.
Gentlemen, thanks for being here. Let's start with all -- with all deference to my colleague, Wolf Blitzer. What in the world is David Duke doing in Iran and why in the world -- I could...
ED ROLLINS, FMR. WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIR.: I think it's as good a place as any for David Duke, but I think the bottom line is the mere fact that they are having a debate on the Holocaust...
DOBBS: Whether or not there was one.
ROLLINS: Was one, yes, certainly shows -- you know, this is the same group that Jim Baker's report wants to bring to the table and discuss what's going on in the Middle East, I think that's the absurdity.
DOBBS: It makes you really want to engage constructively with those.
ROLLINS: It really does. So I'm sure our ally Israel would really like to sit across the table with them and debate the issue.
DOBBS: And talking were the Iraq Study Group, Errol, the idea that the Saudis are saying that if we are not more aggressive effectively, at reading the riot act is how one put it in the administration, that they are going to start financing the Sunnis in Iraq.
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, it goes back to this question of is this a regional question or is this something that could be put right with a handful of troops? And I think it has always been something that was a political problem, much more so than a military question.
DOBBS: But how silly is this? We know that Iran and Syria are supporting the Shia. We know the Saudis through Wahhabi and the Wahhabi sect has been financing terrorism around the world. We know that they have relationships with the Sunnis in Iraq. How are we to tolerate this fiction?
LOUIS: Well, at the same time, you've got to also acknowledge, though, it's not in the interests of the Saudi monarchy, it's not the interests in any of the states in the region to have al Qaeda gain in strength. They are dedicated to the toppling of most of the states in the Gulf region.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: But we also have to recognize the reality of what the Bush policy in Iraq has done and what Bush's war in Iraq has accomplished.
It has tragically destabilized the entire region and has, in fact, one of the real consequences and no one detests what the president of Iran stands for more than me, his rhetoric and his message is despicable, yet the reality is unless we use creative diplomacy and make it clear in their own best interests they got to be brought to a table, there's going won't be a solution.
ROLLINS: There's one thing that's very important and obviously this was a war of choice that President Bush made, but it's an American war. And there are Democrats and Republicans alike who voted and there were mistakes that were made and we need to move forward.
The Baker/Hamilton report was a good assessment of where we go. I don't think it had the right solutions and I think the critical thing here is that Democrats and the president have to come up with the right solutions to move forward and not leave a total mess in the region, and whether that's troops staying there a little bit longer or fighting it the way that they should.
DOBBS: We don't want you to move forward faster than the president is comfortable, permitting you. We don't want you to overtake him. He needs some time delaying this change in policy here.
LOUIS: I'm very happy that this guy will think for at least a moment.
ZIMMERMAN: No, but the reality is Ed, we're in this situation because the president didn't think or he certainly didn't listen and ...
DOBBS: ... Wait a minute. The listen thing?
ZIMMERMAN: Just listening to him...
DOBBS: ... I have not heard any adviser to this president, nor have I heard a single Democrat, offer up an intelligent change in strategy or tactic. Had this president deserves all...
ZIMMERMAN: ... I couldn't disagree with you more.
DOBBS: OK, well let me finish my statement and then you can just simply destroy my viewpoint. But the fact is that we have not had an articulation of an intelligent strategy from either this administration or anyone in the Democratic Party other than withdrawal, OK? And that is -- and that rests solely with John Murtha, in my opinion.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think the only reason we're looking at a change in strategy in Iraq is because Democratic leaders working with senators like Chuck Hagel, for that matter, began to demand an alternative approach, and pointed out how fraudulent our tactic was, good example. Good example.
It was hinted -- General Michael Maples in charge of defense intelligence, pointed out that al Qaeda is the smallest enemy group in Iraq. We are not fighting in Iraq to confront al Qaeda. We're fighting in Iraq refereeing a civil war.
ROLLINS: One very critical thing, and where I basically support the president on, as many places I won't, but this particular one. I think the men and women who have paid the heaviest price ought to have a say for a period of time, which they haven't under Rumsfeld on this last effort. And I would hope that the generals under new leadership and the colonels and the people that are fighting on the ground will get a say.
LOUIS: You've got to get out of the mindset. The problem is not the strategy and the tactics, the problem is the mindset. Every time the president says the goal is victory, he's saying that it's a military question as opposed to a political one. Militarily you can increase the troops, you can decrease the troops, you're not going to get what he's looking for.
ZIMMERMAN: But we tried an insurgency of troops and it didn't work in October.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I want to turn this, because I don't have the feeling we're going to successfully resolve the issue in Iraq here tonight.
ROLLINS: And unfortunately for the foreseeable future we won't either.
DOBBS: A CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research, registered Republicans choice for the nominee in 2008: Giuliani, McCain, Gingrich, Romney, Thompson. Giuliani is at the top. From -- what should we infer from that?
ROLLINS: I think that those people certainly have an opportunity to go out and put the resources. There are two or three of them that have the name I.D. today and have an opportunity to go try and lay the groundwork. None of them have this thing won yet, and none of them have won the hearts and souls yet of the Republican base.
DOBBS: Are you excited about all of those people or any one of them?
ROLLINS: You know, I think they are all legitimate people and I think to a certain extent if they can put -- none of them are bad. I don't think Gingrich is going to make the run, and even if he does, I don't think he's credible.
DOBBS: Let's take a look at the registered Democrats choice for the nominee right now in 2008: Clinton, Obama, Gore, Edwards, Kerry -- Clinton by a huge margin, despite the effusive enthusiasm and the amazing showing of support for Obama.
ZIMMERMAN: But if you look at Senator Clinton's numbers, 37 percent, which means you've got 63 percent looking for an alternative. Clearly she has...
DOBBS: ... You sound anti-Clinton.
ZIMMERMAN: Not at all. I'm trying to give you a objective analysis. I have a great respect for Senator Clinton.
DOBBS: This is an overwhelming in percentage terms, an overwhelming advantage for her against -- what did Maureen Dowd call her, Bill-zilla?
ZIMMERMAN: Let's remember, at this time before the 2004 election, Joe Lieberman was the front runner, then Wes Clark was the frontrunner, then Howard Dean. It didn't turn out that way.
DOBBS: Errol, you get the last word here, because Mr. Zimmerman has been unresponsive to questioning.
LOUIS: The question is going to be whether or not Obama can do what he did by becoming a senator. Listen in 2000, he went to his first Democratic National Convention in his life and wrote a humorous incident about it in his book. He left early. He didn't know anybody. Now he's closing in on the front runner.
DOBBS: He's met a few folks, didn't he?
LOUIS: He made to it New Hampshire this last week.
DOBBS: Yes, absolutely. Robert Zimmerman, Errol, thank you very much, and Ed Rollins, thank you all. We'll see how this unwinds in the course of the next two years.
Still ahead, the results of our poll. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of your poll tonight, overwhelming, 98 percent of you say you would not be offended if a Christian wished you a merry Christmas or a Jew wished you a happy Hanukkah. Happy Hanukkah, merry Christmas, me, too.
Time now for just one last e-mail. Tony in Missouri said: "Does anyone with even a half ounce of brain matter actually believe that Swift Co. had no idea they were hiring illegal aliens? Doesn't it make you wonder why Swift Co. is a major contributor to both the Democratic and Republican parties?"
Not me, personally. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Thanks for being with us tonight. For all of us, thanks for watching, good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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