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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Defense Secretary Robert Gates Visits Iraq; Child Care Costs Soar; President Bush Ponders Permanent Increase in Size of Army and Marine Corps; Former Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore May Seek Presidential Run
Aired December 20, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: President Bush says victory is still achievable in Iraq, but admits that insurgents had -- have had success.
Also, child care costs are soaring. Working Americans are struggling. We will have a special report, "War on the Middle Class" -- all of that and much more -- straight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate, and opinion, for Wednesday, December 20.
Live in New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush today acknowledged that 2006 has been a difficult year for our troops in Iraq. The president said, the United States is not succeeding as fast as he would like. President Bush also said he has not decided whether to raise troop numbers in Iraq. And the president said he's inclined to believe the Army and the Marine Corps should be larger.
Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House on the president's end-of-the-year news conference today. Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon on proposals to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps. And Jamie McIntyre reports from Baghdad on Defense Secretary Robert Gates' visit to Iraq today.
We turn first to Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, facing possible lame-duck status, President Bush today pledged to work very hard to get things done in the next two years with a sprint to the finish.
But the big question here, of course, is, can he turn things around in Iraq, and how quickly?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): It was the president's attempt at pushing the reset button. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to make you this promise: My administration will work with Republicans and Democrats to fashion a new way forward that can succeed in Iraq.
MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush presented an ambitious New Year's resolution. But his news conference, wrapping up the year, didn't have a pretty bow.
Faced with soaring violence in Iraq, plummeting support for the war at home, and Congress now in the hands of Democrats, this is not the same man who, when reelected, boasted about having political capital to spend.
BUSH: But the most painful aspect of the presidency is the fact that I know my decisions have caused young men and women to lose their lives.
MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush also made clear, he still believes in his decision to invade Iraq.
BUSH: No, I haven't questioned whether or not it was right to take Saddam Hussein out, nor have I questioned the necessity for the American people -- I mean, I have questioned it. I have come to the conclusion it was the right decision.
MALVEAUX: But the president is no longer claiming the U.S. is absolutely winning the Iraq war, as he did during the campaign just six weeks ago.
BUSH: Victory in Iraq is achievable. It hadn't happened nearly as quickly as I hoped it would have.
MALVEAUX: As his new defense secretary, Bob Gates, embarks on his fresh-eyes tour in Iraq, Mr. Bush says all options are on the table, including sending more U.S. troops, an unpopular prospect among the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Laying the groundwork, the president has already called to expand the armed forces overall, a move that appears to reject the vision of his departed defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, who advocated for a leaner fighting force.
For a president who does not like to look back, his year-ender press conference inspired some nostalgia.
BUSH: We began the year with optimism after watching nearly 12 million Iraqis go to the polls to vote for a unity government.
MALVEAUX: With Iraq now torn by sectarian violence, Mr. Bush resolved to turn things around. But, like many of us who make New Year's resolutions, he gave himself an out.
BUSH: I'm not going to make predictions about what 2007 will look like in Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MALVEAUX: But the president did indicate, the United States is going to be involved in a struggle against who he calls radicals and extremists for a long period of time. He also said, the military has to be capable of sustaining that fight for what he calls a long time -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Suzanne Malveaux.
A new CNN opinion poll says public support for the war in Iraq has fallen to a new low. The poll says only 31 percent of voters favor the war in Iraq. Sixty-seven percent oppose the war. Meanwhile, 27 percent of voters say the war will end in victory for the United States. Fifty percent believe that it will end in stalemate, and 20 percent in defeat. Now, this poll was conducted by Opinion Research Corporation.
As Suzanne reported, President Bush is considering a permanent increase in the size of the Army and Marine Corps. Such an increase would cost billions of dollars. But it is unclear where all that money will come from.
Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a question of supply and demand, not enough troops for the wars being fought.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates is in Baghdad, getting recommendations from commanders on permanently increasing the size of the Army and Marine Corps. He will report back to President Bush.
BUSH: ... I'm inclined to believe this is a good idea is because I understand that we're going to be in a long struggle against radicals and extremists. And we must make sure that our military has the capability to stay in the fight for a long period of time.
STARR: The Army is under the most pressure. In the last five years, 25,000 soldiers have been added. But commanders now want to add as many as 50,000 more. It's been a massive decline since the Vietnam years. In 1970, the active-duty Army had more than one million troops. New troops could take years to add.
GENERAL PETER SCHOOMAKER, U.S. ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF: Optimistically, we could add 6,000 to 7,000 soldiers per year, in my view.
STARR: But, then, they must be trained.
MICHAEL O'HANLON, SENIOR FELLOW IN FOREIGN POLICY STUDIES, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: First, there's maybe 10 to 12 weeks of boot camp, 10 to 12 weeks of specialized training in whatever weapons capabilities one is going to become an expert in.
STARR: And it will be expensive. It costs $13,000 to recruit a single soldier, and $1.2 billion a year to pay for salaries and training for every 10,000 troops. No one can predict what it all might cost in new tanks, helicopters and Humvees.
SCHOOMAKER: Frankly, we entered this war flat-footed. Investment accounts were underfunded in the Army by approximately $100 billion, resulting in nearly $56 billion in equipment shortages across the Army.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: And, you know, Kitty, in the 1990s alone, the size of the Army declined by about half-a-million troops to its current level. The generals now say that peace dividend is gone -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Barbara, it's unclear where this money will come from. And, if the president increases the size of the Army and the Marine Corps, might we expect to see big cuts in the Navy and Air Force?
STARR: Well, that's unlikely at this point, but that's exactly the problem. No one knows where the money is coming from. The war in Iraq itself is now costing about $2 billion a week.
The military will submit a request for additional funding to Congress after the 1st of the year, somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 billion. And that's before any of the price tag for this expansion of the Army and Marine Corps -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: That is astronomical.
Thanks very much, Barbara Starr.
Insurgents in Iraq have killed three more of our troops. Two were killed by roadside bombs south of Baghdad. Another was killed in Al-Anbar province. Sixty-six of our troops have been killed or have died in the war this month; 2,955 troops have been killed or have died since this war began. Another 22,401 troops have been wounded, 10,050 of them so seriously they could not return to duty within three days.
Meanwhile, the number of Iraqis being killed continues to rise. Eighteen people were killed in two car bomb attacks in Baghdad. And the police today found the bodies of 76 Iraqis dumped in the Iraqi capital.
The new defense secretary, Robert Gates, today visited Baghdad to discuss U.S. military strategy in Iraq. So far, Gates is not saying how he believes U.S. strategy should change.
Jamie McIntyre is the only network TV reporter traveling with Gates. And he reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just three days into the job, Robert Gates emerged from a C-17 cargo plane after an overnight flight from Washington, and went straight into meetings with his top commanders in Baghdad -- the big topic on the agenda, President Bush's interest in surging tens of thousands of additional U.S. troops to try to bring the escalating violence under control in the Iraqi capital.
ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We have discussed the possibility of a surge and -- and the potential for what it might accomplish. I think it's very important, in this case, to hear, above all, from the Iraqis and from the prime minister on how best we can help.
MCINTYRE: General George Casey, the top commander on the ground in Iraq, says he has asked for more troops when he thought he needed them, and said he's open to a surge if the reinforcements have a clear mission that can be accomplished militarily.
GENERAL GEORGE CASEY, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL FORCE IN IRAQ: Three or four times, I have asked for additional troops. But they have been for a purpose. They have been for an election or to take advantage of an opportunity that was presented as a result of the operations in Fallujah. So, I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea. But what I want to see happen is when -- if we do bring more American troops here, they help us progress to our strategic objectives.
MCINTYRE: Even General John Abizaid, who has been the most adamant opponent of sending more U.S. troops to Iraq, indicated he might go along with a surge, if that's what the president and the Pentagon wanted to try.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I think it's safe to say that absolutely all options are on the table. We're looking at every possible thing that might influence the situation to make Baghdad, in particular, more secure.
(on camera): Gates insists, the plan to expand the size of the U.S. military is unrelated to the possible surge of tens of thousands of additional U.S. troops here to Baghdad. But the fact is, were it not for the strain the Iraq war was putting on the military, the expansion plan would not be the priority it is.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: General John Abizaid, the commander of all U.S. troops in the Middle East, plans to retire in March. General Abizaid has led Central Command for more than three years. He says it's the time -- the right time for him to step down. And he insists he's not being pushed aside.
Still to come: President Bush gives his opinion on a signature issue for our beleaguered middle class. We will have a special report on that.
Also: Middle-class families face soaring child care expenses, as they struggle to pay for basic living costs.
And new outrage over gaping holes in border security, after a Native American community bans the National Guard.
We will have a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: President Bush today gave his strongest support yet for the sharp increase in the nation's minimum wage. But it comes too late to help many working men and women.
Gas and energy prices have shot up. And a new report says child care costs are skyrocketing.
Casey Wian reports on a presidential about-face that may finally give American workers higher wages. And Lisa Sylvester reports on a child care crisis that is hurting many American families.
We begin with Casey Wian in Los Angeles -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, before today, President Bush would only say he was willing to work with Democrats who wanted to raise the federal minimum wage. Now he's all be caved in to their demands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): Saying the message of the midterm election was clear, President Bush now says he supports raising the federal minimum wage to $7.25 an hour, from just $5.15 today.
BUSH: I support the proposed $2.10 increase in the minimum wage over a two-year period. I believe we should do it in a way that does not punish the millions of small businesses that are creating most of the new jobs in our country. So, I support pairing it with targeted tax and regulatory relief.
WIAN: Democrats are pushing to raise the minimum wage for the first time in nine years, the longest stretch without an increase ever. During that same period, federal lawmakers have voted to boost their own salaries eight times. Workers earning the federal minimum today have lost 20 percent of their purchasing power since 1997.
ALEC LEVENSON, USC MARSHALL SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Most people get cost-of-living adjustments for their wages. That hasn't been happening for minimum-wage workers. We're enabling people who are at the bottom rung of the economic ladder to get back to where they should have been if we had had inflation indexing all this time.
WIAN: Meanwhile, 29 states and the District of Columbia have either raised or, next year, will raise their minimum wages above the federal level. While the feds have done nothing, California has approved six minimum-wage hikes since 1997. Most recently, Governor Schwarzenegger approved increases to $7.50 an hour in January and then $8 in 2008.
RICK RICE, CALIFORNIA UNDERSECRETARY OF LABOR: Essentially, what the increase that he has established will do, it will add $2.5 billion to the incomes of the two million people that are -- that are earning minimum wage. So, it's -- it will have a significant impact for lower-paid workers.
WIAN: Despite the dire warnings of economists, claiming minimum- wage increases are job killers, California's unemployment rate has plunged from 6.3 percent in 1997 to 4.5 percent today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Now, as for the president's desire to include a small business tax cut in any minimum-wage bill, Democrats say they prefer taking that up as a separate issue -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much, Casey Wian.
That brings us to our poll question tonight: Do you believe the current federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour is too low? Cast your vote, yes or no. And we will bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
And the current minimum wage has made it difficult for many families to pay even for the most basic necessities, and, among those, child care costs.
Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM GRAHAM, PARENT: So, did you have any dreams last night?
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jim Graham, a freelance writer, and his wife have two children, Gavin (ph), 5, and Mathea (ph), 2. This morning, he shuttles them off to day care.
GRAHAM: Yes. Let me see that nose.
SYLVESTER: The Graham family, like many working Americans, grapple with rising child care costs. Full-time day care for their two children costs about $20,000 a year, something they cannot afford.
GRAHAM: You talk about saving for college. You're spending almost that much right now on having kids in day care for children who are a year-old, 2 years old.
SYLVESTER: In New Hampshire, where the Grahams live, child care costs have soared 88 percent over the last five years, according to a study commissioned by the University of New Hampshire.
DAPHNE KENYON, D.A. KENYON & ASSOCIATES: We looked at a two- family -- a two-parent family with two young children. And, for that family, child care expenses can be almost a quarter of the budget. The only bigger expense is rent and utilities.
SYLVESTER: Nationally, the cost of child care jumped nearly 7 percent last year alone. Day care costs have shot up, like other household expenses, with inflation. Policy experts say state and federal governments should do more to help working families, beginning with raising the federal child care tax credit that has been increased only once since 1980.
HELEN BLANK, NATIONAL WOMEN'S LAW CENTER: It's amazing. You ask any working family, and they tell you that they would like to have help with their child care costs. But if you look at what we're doing in Washington to help these families, it's very, very little.
SYLVESTER: The Graham family ultimately decided full-time day care was just too expensive. They can only afford it three times a week. The other days, Jim Graham does duty as a stay-at-home dad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Democratic leaders say they will try to pass a number of bills in the first days in office aimed at helping the middle class, including that plan to raise the minimum wage, and another proposal that would help working families pay for day care expenses -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Lisa, it's a big issue very much overlooked by the policy-makers in our country.
Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester.
Coming up: The battle between border patrol and Native American communities escalates tonight.
And President Bush reflects on a bleak year at a pivotal point in his presidency. We will have a special report.
And a blizzard is moving out of the Rocky Mountains, into the Plain states. It's creating havoc on the roads and in the air. It's even forcing the shutdown of a major airport.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SYLVESTER: Last week, we reported on a decision by one community on an Indian reservation in Arizona. It's right on the border with Mexico. One community decided to stop the National Guard from using its land to patrol the border. There are new developments tonight that underline the importance of patrols in this area.
And Bill Tucker is here with an update on that -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, you know, there are about 20 Native American reservations in the state of Arizona.
The Tohono O'odham is one of the largest reservations in the state. It's just about the size of the state of Connecticut. The reservation sits right along the border with Mexico, as you can see there. It has the distinction, as infamous as it may be, of being the region where the highest number of illegal crossings occur and has the largest number of drug-smuggling trails.
Just yesterday, police found two abandoned pickup trucks on the reservation. They were loaded with nearly two tons of marijuana.
Tonight, we have learned from law enforcement officials in the area that marijuana seizures alone along this section of the border were up 238 percent this October, November and December, as compared to last year.
Now, in real numbers, Kitty, that's 47,000 tons of marijuana, as opposed to just 14,000 in the same time period last year.
PILGRIM: So, it's clearly a major drug route.
TUCKER: Yes.
PILGRIM: Now, is the entire reservation against the Border Patrol patrolling the area? This is a large area, the size of the state of Connecticut?
(CROSSTALK)
TUCKER: It's huge. This is why the Border Patrol and National Guard are worried about it.
So far, it's only one community. The reservation does have a history of cooperating with the federal government. There are two Border Patrol stations that are currently on the reservation.
Now, remember, this is sovereign territory. U.S. law does not apply there. This is tribal law. So, clearly, we have had cooperative relations in the past. I don't know what went wrong to cause this one community to become upset and keep out the Border -- the National Guard, but...
(CROSSTALK)
PILGRIM: It's very clear that a compromise has to be reached, with this amount of drugs coming across.
TUCKER: Right. And there is a negotiation being worked out. We will see if one can be worked out.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Well, time now for some of your thoughts.
And Joanne in Nevada writes: "I'm a Catholic, and I'm against illegal immigration. So, why doesn't Bishop Jaime Soto care about my right to a good life? The bishop should be meeting in Mexico, telling the people to stop breaking the laws, and start making their country a better place. Good church people are not supposed to lie, cheat and steal."
All right, Kevin in Colorado writes: "The saying goes, illegal aliens are doing the jobs that Americans won't do. They must be confused, because our newspaper says that the Swift meatpacking plant in Greeley, Colorado, was bombarded by American citizens putting in job applications." And Joseph in Pennsylvania: "When President Bush says he doesn't believe in protectionism, that means he doesn't believe in protecting or saving the jobs of the American people. If anyone doesn't believe in protecting or saving American jobs, wouldn't they be considered anti-American?"
E-mail us at LouDobbs.com. We will have a few more of your thoughts a little bit later in the broadcast. And each of you whose e-mail is read here will receive a copy of Lou's bestselling new book, "War on the Middle Class."
And coming up: It looks like Colorado will have a white Christmas, and then some. Wild weather grips the West.
And, then, carving out a legacy, President Bush says he is not worrying about it. But that hasn't stopped the speculators.
And illegal aliens in the workplace? Former employees of Swift & Company are suing for lost wages. The lawyer representing those employees will join us.
Also, stay with us tonight for a special edition of "CNN PRESENTS," "After Jesus: The First Christians," at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now our top stories.
President Bush today admitted that insurgents have had success in Iraq. But he declared that victory is still achievable in the war.
The new defense secretary, Robert Gates, today made his first visit to Baghdad since he was sworn in. Gates didn't say whether he favors a short-term increase in the number of our troops in Iraq.
And President Bush today said he supports the increase in the federal minimum wage. Democrats have been demanding an increase for the first time in nine years. This is the longest period ever without an increase.
The sheriff in charge of the search for two missing climbers on Oregon's Mount Hood says he's given up hope of finding them alive. And, with a new storm barreling in, he did suspend the search today.
Now, the sheriff said any future operations would be recovery efforts.
And Dan Simon joins us from Hood River with the very latest -- Dan.
DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, the sheriff says he had an honest conversation with the families of those two remaining climbers, a frank conversation, where both he and the families concluded that there is simply no chance that those two climbers can be alive. He is now calling this a recovery mission -- no timetable for that mission. Sometimes, you have to wait until the springtime, until the snow thaws, until you can actually recover some of those bodies. In the meantime, he's going to allow his crews to spend the holidays with their families.
As for the families of those two missing climbers, we are told they have gone home, obviously not with a lot of closure, knowing that their two loved ones are still somewhere on that mountain -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: A terrible time for all of them.
Thanks very much, Dan Simon.
A major blizzard in Colorado has closed down the Denver International Airport. It's disrupting holiday travel in many parts of the country. Whiteout conditions in the Denver area also shut down highways, schools and malls. And the officials say the airport was closed because of snow accumulations and poor runway conditions. It will remain closed until further notice. Colorado's governor has declared a state of emergency.
The astronauts aboard the Discovery today used a sensor on a long arm to scan the outside of the space shuttle. Now, this NASA simulation shows the equipment used to check for damage to the shuttle's heat shields from tiny meteoroids. Now, the procedure was instituted in the wake of the 2003 Columbia disaster. Discovery is scheduled to land in Florida on Friday.
President Bush today acknowledged that it's been a difficult year for our troops in Iraq. And his admission could also apply to his own presidency. The president's challenge now is to shape the public's view of his legacy, among the many things he's faced with.
John King has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He doesn't like public introspection, or legacy question.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everybody's trying to write the history of this administration even before it's over. I'm reading about George Washington still. My attitude is if they're still analyzing number one, 43 ought not worry about it and just do what he thinks is right.
KING: Year-end news conferences are a tradition, this one perhaps more important that most because this president is at both policy and political crossroads.
BUSH: I'm speaking to American people, of course. I want them to know that I know how tough it is.
KING: Two-thirds of Americans oppose the war and just 28 percent, in the most recent CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll approve of how the president is handling Iraq.
KEN DUBERSTEIN, FMR. REAGAN W.H. CHIEF OF STAFF: There's bipartisan angst on the Iraq policy. Everybody's looking for a solution. Everybody knows we can't just walk out.
KING: One goal here was to insist he is learning lessons.
BUSH: It is important for us to be successful going forward is to analyze that which went wrong. And clearly, one aspect of this war that has not gone right is the sectarian violence inside Baghdad.
KING: Translation: it would have helped to have had more troops to keep order in Baghdad when Saddam Hussein's regime fell.
Now a monumental question facing Mr. Bush is whether more troops will turn things around or whether it's too late.
KEN POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: Iraq is headed in a very dangerous direction. It's already in a state of civil war and it is headed toward a Bosnia or Lebanon Congo-like state of all-out civil war.
KING: With Democrats poised to take control of Congress, the president sound more conciliatory and promises bipartisanship. But he rejects Democratic calls for a timeline to bring troops home.
And as he considers sending even more troops in Iraq, Mr. Bush seems mindful of the legacy debate.
BUSH: The true history or any administration is not going to be written until long after the person is gone. And it's just impossible for a short-term history to accurately reflect what has taken place.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And at his traditional year-end news conference, Kitty, the president said 2006 was a tough year for our troops in Iraq and a tough year for the Iraqi people. I think, also fair to say, a difficult year for him as well.
PILGRIM: John, what was striking was President Bush saying we still have more time in this presidency, let's not finish it out quite yet, despite all the legacy questions today.
One thing he did talk about -- and you touched on this in your report -- was bipartisan cooperation. How much will we see of that? And how much will he be able to do?
KING: Well, it's a great question and the Democrats say they don't know the answer yet. Many Republicans will tell you privately the history of this administration is that they set a policy and then they tell Congress what they're going to do. They don't really consult and seek input from the Congress.
The president insists this time it will be different. And he has had some preliminary meetings with both Democrats and Republicans in Congress. What the Democrats say the true test will be is by the end of next week, when the president's close to announcing that new policy in Iraq, will he call them, give them a private briefing, say, this is what I'm inclined to do. What do you think? Any last-minute suggestions? Any input?
That is what the Democrats say is the true test of whether this president will be bipartisan; that he actually seeks their advice and input, not just meet with them.
PILGRIM: That will be the real litmus test.
John, any Democratic reaction today?
KING: Most Democrats said so far that the president simply hasn't answered the question framed by the American people when they put the Democrats in power after the midterm elections. The American people, the Democrats would say, are demanding a new policy in Iraq. And with every passing day, the Democrats keep saying, where is that policy, Mr. President?
So, they say they're running out of patience. The president says to get it right, he needs a little more time.
PILGRIM: All right. A full slate in January, clearly.
Thanks very much, John King.
Still ahead, first, a massive raid by immigration officials and now Swift and Co. is at the center of a $23 million lawsuit by former employees.
The attorney representing those employees will join us.
Plus, the list of those exploring a run for the White House expands. And our political panel of experts will join us to discuss the current presidential year-end news conference.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Eighteen former employees from Swift and Co. have filed a $23 million lawsuit against the meat packing firm. Now, this suit accuses the company of conspiring to keep wages down by hiring illegal aliens.
Immigration officials raided Swift last week. They arrested 1,200 illegal aliens.
Now, Angel Reyes is the attorney representing the former workers. And he joins us from Dallas, Texas.
Thanks for being with us, sir.
ANGEL REYES, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: You're very welcome. PILGRIM: You know, I'd like to turn to something that President Bush actually took up this issue in his end of the year news conference. This is how much this is striking a chord in the national conscience.
Let me play a soundbyte of what the president had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: In some of these packing plants they found people working that had been illegally. But all of them had documents that said they were here legally. They were using forged documents, which just reminded me that the system we have in place has caused people to rely upon smugglers and forgers in order to do work Americans aren't doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Well, I would say the president summed up the situation. But what do you say to the end of that, the work that Americans aren't doing? It seems to be involved in this argument that these are jobs Americans won't do. Is that true?
REYES: It is in some ways. But I want to say first of all, that the president is absolutely right in what he said. That with respect to these jobs being jobs that U.S. citizens and resident aliens won't do, let me just tell you that we have anecdotal reports from our clients telling us that over the years when the Hondurans, Guatemalans and El Salvadoran folks came up from Central America to take jobs at Swift, some of the older folks that had been working at the plant had to fill out their job applications for them.
And in the process of filling out those job applications for them, they realized that these folks had last names like Smith and Jones. And these are of course Mexican Americans who speak both Spanish and English and Cactus (ph) who are helping these folks from Honduras and Guatemala fill out their job application forms.
And they were wondering, indeed, just like I'm wondering, how in the world someone from Honduras has a name like Smith. I don't know what you know about Honduras, but I don't know many Smiths down there other than perhaps a tourist or an expat.
PILGRIM: Let's get to some hard numbers on this. And you're claiming the influx of illegal workers has driven the wages down. Wages that used to be $20 and hour a few years ago now are about $12 an hour. Where has the workers' union been in all of this? It seems that they've clearly not been attentive.
REYES: Well, I can't do speak to the workers' union. What I can speak to are the 18 clients that I represent. And the 18 clients I represent no longer work there, but have all told us that wages have gone down from $20 to around $12 a work for similar work in the last few years.
PILGRIM: You know, Homeland Security Assistant Secretary Julie Myers has said that this document fraud is a significant problem and it's turning into a disturbing new trend. Do you see federal acknowledgment that this is an issue? And do you think that that will help your case?
REYES: Well, I think that as everyone knows, ICE last Tuesday raided five different plants of Swift. And I think really, this is the tip of the iceberg. This -- the hospitality industry, the casino industry, the construction trades. All of those industries are probably faced with very similar problems. And I think that indeed this is going to be a much bigger issue than what we're currently seeing here with just this Swift lawsuit.
PILGRIM: Let me inform our viewers, we have asked executives at Swift to appear on the program and also they have declined to. But they did send us a statement. So we'll read it now.
"The claim is completely without merit. The allegations are fabricated and lack any factual support."
Now we should say that this lawsuit that you've brought is not the only lawsuit involved. Swift brought an unsuccessful lawsuit to stop the raids. They have not been charged. And now you have a lawsuit. Do you have to improve intent -- that the company intended to drive wages down? What do you have to prove to win your lawsuit?
REYES: Well, we have to actually show that there was a pattern in practice of replacing U.S. citizens with illegal aliens in an effort to drive down hourly wages at the plant. That's just one element of our petition. And there are other elements that we intend to prove as well.
PILGRIM: You're seeking $23 million in damages. You have 18 plaintiffs. How do you arrive at that number?
REYES: Well let me just tell you that we live in a day and age where most working lives are valued at over $1 million. And I think that goes for whether you work in Africa, Central America, Mexico, Canada, America, wherever you work. If you work for 50 years, the value of your work life is probably more than a million dollars. So that's where we came up with that number. We decided that each and every one of these people was worth at least $1 million of their work life. So that's where we got that number.
PILGRIM: All right. Angel Reyes, thanks very much for joining us tonight.
REYES: Thank you.
PILGRIM: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. Do you believe the current federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour is too low? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in a few moments.
And just ahead, another politician joins the presidential race. We'll tell you about the latest entry into an already crowded field. And will the White House send more troops to Iraq? Three of the country's best political minds will join us to discuss that and a lot more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Just when you thought the presidential race couldn't be more crowded, another politician says he'll explore the run for the White House. And you may not know the latest entry into the 2008 presidential race, that is unless you live in Virginia. Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): About a dozen Republicans are exploring a presidential bid. They all call themselves conservatives. Now former Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore says he's exploring a presidential bid to fill what he calls a void in the Republican race.
JAMES GILMORE (R), FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: And I think there is a void. I think there's a need for a committed conservative who is able to put together a national campaign.
SCHNEIDER: A committed conservative? That's an implied criticism of well-known potential candidates whose conservative credentials are open to challenge, like Rudy Giuliani and John McCain and Mitt Romney.
GILMORE: I didn't pretend to be one thing one day and then another thing another day. I actually governed as a conservative.
SCHNEIDER: Gilmore can put together a national campaign. That's an implied criticism of potential conservative candidates who are relatively unknown, like Sam Brownback and Duncan Hunter and Mike Huckabee.
GILMORE: I've been an Army veteran, chairman of the RNC, chairman of the Republican Governors Association, head of the terrorism commission, head of the Internet tax commission. I have been around the block.
SCHNEIDER: But is this the direction Republicans want to go? Conventional wisdom says Republicans lost this year because they moved too far to the right. Gilmore believes the Republicans lost because the party betrayed conservative principles. On what?
GILMORE: I think on spending. I think that we have not become affirmative, strong advocates for the control of spending.
SCHNEIDER: The party's base was demoralized in 2006. Rally the base, conservatives say, and Republicans will win, just as they did in 2000 and '02 and '04. It's a strategy that goes back to the founding father of the modern Republican Party.
GILMORE: I think that the people of the United States are really looking for more Ronald Reagan, conservative type of leadership.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SCHNEIDER: Rallying the base worked very well for Republicans when the voters in the middle were split. But this year, independent voters tilted decisively to the Democrats. So Republicans are going to face a big decision in 2008. Do they want to rally the base or try to reclaim the center?
PILGRIM: Interesting stuff. Thanks very much, Bill Schneider.
Well joining me now are three distinguished political commentators. Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman, author and journalist Thomas Edsall and "Washington Times" columnist Diana West. And thanks for being with us.
Diana, let me start with you. This is an interesting distinction, a committed conservative. Do you believe enough conservatives are in this race yet?
DIANA WEST, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Yes, I do. I think the race is getting thick and full there. I think that it's interesting to hear from Mr. Gilmore. But there's quite a variety of Republicans at this point.
PILGRIM: Tom?
THOMAS EDSALL, AUTHOR: Jim Gilmore's got a long haul in this race. His governorship of Virginia was followed by a Democratic takeover, which some people blame on him. He was the chairman of the Republican National Committee and he was basically yanked off that by President Bush and Karl Rove to bring in more effective leadership. His claims are going to be a rough sledding for this guy.
PILGRIM: Bob?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I have to tell you, watching Governor Gilmore now call himself a committed conservative. Of course, George Bush called himself a compassionate conservative. Yet this is still a party that is berth of ideas, berth of a plan to move the country forward.
And it's very curious that all the Republicans running are trying to run by holding a seance to bring back the Reagan years and the Reagan message. No one wants to stand with George W. Bush's message. And I think that really demonstrates the failure of the modern day right wing of the Republican Party.
PILGRIM: Let's talk about the Bush presidency. Big day with the end-of-the-year news conference. And a lot of talk about legacy, which does strike me as a bit premature. Iraq basically dominated the entire discussion. Let's turn to what the president said about whether this was a war that could be won or not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Victory in Iraq is achievable. It hasn't happened nearly as quickly as I hoped it would have. I know it's a fact that there are still unspeakable sectarian violence in Iraq. I know that's troubling to the American people. But I also don't believe most Americans want us just to get out now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Diana, do you think he sums up his position well in this statement?
WEST: No, I don't because -- and I would say this applies to all pundits, all brass, all leaders. There is no definition of what victory is supposed to look like. We know that he wants to stabilize Baghdad, he wants to stabilize Iraq so that the Iraqi government can take over.
But nobody bothers to think about what that Iraqi government will look like. It will be a natural ally of Iran. And that's hard to see as an American victory in the so-called war on terror.
PILGRIM: It's been interesting to me and I'll get to you gentlemen in a second, that some of these terms are a little nebulous. A new CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation shows that half of the individuals polled believe the outcome of the war will be a stalemate. Let's put those numbers up, 27 percent say the most likely outcome for the U.S. in Iraq is victory, 50 percent stalemate and 20 percent defeat. But there's no clear definition even of what defeat could be. How do you react to these polls?
EDSALL: Well, I think the polls are very worrisome for Bush and he is concerned that he really set forward three goals internationally with the axis of evil, and on all fronts, he is worse off now than when he made that announcement back in 2001.
And he's got to look at his foreign policy, which is the center of his whole administration, as in serious trouble and in a sense, you can say it's premature. But that is going to be one of his big legacies, if not the biggest legacy. And he's going to leave behind an Iran with nuclear weapons, North Korea moving towards that, if not already there, and what looks like an Iraq in a mess.
ZIMMERMAN: It's really the axis of incompetence -- George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld -- that have brought us to this situation. And it really is absolutely scandalous to now see the fact that we're bordering -- we're facing a military that's broken.
Colin Powell referred to our Army -- the former secretary of state referred to our Army as "just about broken." The chief of staff of the Army, Peter Schoomaker said that the war zone rotations in Iraq are breaking our military in Iraq.
And it is truly one of the great scandals of this administration that they have taken our most precious resources, our courageous men and women who have fought for freedom and taken on the war on terrorism, and have so callously disregarded and wasted those resources and tragically put them in harm's way, even sending them into battle without the proper military protection. PILGRIM: Diana, you know, the president's also announced plans to increase troop levels. How do you assess that in the context of what's being discussed here?
WEST: Well, again, without any clear purpose, I don't think that more troops are going to be the answer to our problems. We have a situation where our troops that are there are handcuffed by politically correct rules of engagement that have prevented any sort of elimination or obliteration of any sort of enemy forces. Of course they...
ZIMMERMAN: Quite to the contrary. You're not going to achieve success in Iraq through a military strategy -- even our own military leaders have acknowledged that, like General Corelli (ph)...
WEST: Well, I disagree with that.
ZIMMERMAN: ... have pointed out, everyone has pointed out across the board that it has to be a political solution.
WEST: May I finish?
ZIMMERMAN: Please.
PILGRIM: Let's get Diana in on this. Go ahead.
WEST: I think that a political solution is sort of ridiculous in a land where the sectarian struggle has been going on for over a thousand years. If this is such an important front in the war on terror, there should have been a much stronger military solution at the very beginning. At this point...
ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's just the point. It's not a front on the war on terror. Even our military leaders have acknowledged, like, for example, national security advisor Stephen Hadley and Lieutenant General Maples have acknowledged al Qaeda is the smallest military force in that region. It is a civil war.
WEST: Yes, but al Qaeda is not the only problem in the war on terror, which is really a war against global jihad. If we only understood the war in the terms of Islamic context, we would be able to better assess what the possibilities are and what a better strategy would be.
I would say that the biggest problem in this reconsideration of the whole strategy in Iraq has been the tunnel vision that's kept us focused only on Iraq and not seen where American interests lie in preventing, for example, Iran from completing its genocidal intentions, or other countries that have been contributing to Islamic terrorism around the globe.
PILGRIM: Tom, this speaks to your earlier point. Anything to add here?
EDSALL: Well, I think, one, that Bush in Iraq stepped on a hornet's nest and he did it without being fully prepared or in any way, taking Diana's point -- taking her just on face value, Bush did not conduct this war in a fashion that would produce a win on any standard. And he has left behind, in his wake, a lot of dead people. That's true.
The problem really is that, in Iraq, he may have done what the Russians did in Afghanistan where they go in, they pick a fight with a much smaller, seemingly smaller group, and they ended up getting trapped into a holy mess and it just turns out to draw in more terrorists or turn a lot of people into terrorists and it's not an effective way to fight terrorism.
ZIMMERMAN: This issue...
PILGRIM: President Bush has said he wants Defense Secretary Gates to get up to speed. He's in Baghdad right now. How quickly can you get up to speed on the situation or is this situation even calculable at this point?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, you know, this issue is beyond partisan politics, and it has to be respected as such. And when you see the bipartisan Iraq Study Group come forward with important recommendations to address this issue, for that matter, General Gates -- rather, Secretary Gates being in Iraq -- it's important he's there on the ground.
But what's most critical is that President Bush listen to our military leaders and recognize when they say that the answer is not more troops in Iraq but a political solution, that that be respected.
PILGRIM: I wish we could continue. We will be back to do it again. Thanks very much joining us.
EDSALL: Thank you.
WEST: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Robert Zimmerman, Thomas Edsall and Diana West.
And still ahead, the results of tonight's poll, more of your thoughts, and a due stay with us, because coming up is a special premier edition of "CNN PRESENTS: AFTER JESUS, THE FIRST CHRISTIANS" and that's coming up here in a few minutes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll. Ninety-four percent of you say the current federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour is too low.
Time now for more of your thoughts.
From Bryan in Iowa. He wrote to us, "Of course companies like Swift and others are doing whatever they can to keep wages down. If hiring illegals does it, then what they do if they our federal government fined them $10,000 for each illegal per day, I bet they would be cleared out really fast and American workers would be in high demand in an industry that, at one time, was one of the best-paying jobs in the Midwest."
And Terry in Florida wrote to us: "Being in industrial construction for 35 years, I've seen whole factories that paid good wages being taken over by illegal workers. I just cannot believe Washington believes those jobs were jobs nobody wanted."
And Sheree in Georgia wrote, "There are many times when I want to participate in your polls, but a simple yes or no just doesn't convey my feelings. Do you think you could add hell yes and hell no buttons to the poll?"
And Janet in South Carolina wrote, "Thank you for your continuing fight for middle class Americans. It must seem a lonely fight sometimes."
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com.
And that's for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, good night from New York. And coming up next here on "CNN PRESENTS, AFTER JESUS." But first, a check of the headlines with Carol Costello -- Carol.
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