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Lou Dobbs Tonight
More Troops: National Guard to Iraq; Under Fire: Gonzales Fights for Job; War on the Middle Class
Aired April 06, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the military prepares to send National Guard combat brigades to Iraq for a second time.
We'll have a live report from the Pentagon.
Also, the bleakest warning yet about the impact of global warming.
We'll have a special report.
And Attorney General Alberto Gonzales under siege. Another one of his aides has resigned.
We'll have all of that and much more straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Friday, April 6th.
Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, for the first time since the war began, the Army is preparing to deploy National Guard combat brigades to Iraq for a second tour of duty.
Meanwhile, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is preparing for make-or-break testimony that could determine whether he will keep his job.
Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon on the Army's struggle to deploy an adequate number of combat brigades to Iraq.
And Ed Henry reports from Crawford, Texas, on the attorney general's fight for survival as another top Justice Department official resigns.
We turn to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon first -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, there is no question anymore, the Army is struggling to find enough troops to send to Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice over): More than 12,000 Army National Guard troops, about four brigades, will go to Iraq for a one-year tour of duty beginning early next year. For the first time, the Guard will do a second combat tour in Iraq. This is not part of the so-called surge. It's just the latest effort to keep enough troops in Iraq possibly through 2010.
But can the military keep up the pace of a prolonged deployment to Iraq?
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I have said all along that I believe the decisions on duration and everything else will depend on the situation on the ground. So the truth is, I think people don't know right now how long this will last.
STARR: For the National Guard, there is a particular strain.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Something is going to bust in the Guard and Reserve system. You can't take part-time soldiers with real jobs and make them into full-time soldiers and make that work over an extended period of time.
STARR: The top brass says all the troops going to Iraq will be fully trained, but there is a broader risk emerging.
GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: You do forfeit some of the kind of training you would like to do just to have a little bit more readiness in case something happens that you're not expecting.
STARR: But General Pace also goes on to say that America's enemies should make no mistake, the U.S. military, he says, is prepared. There are still 2.4 million troops on duty -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: But, Barbara, despite those assertions, there are rising concerns that the Army has reached the breaking point because of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now, are there any Army brigades ready for combat in other parts of the world?
STARR: Well, you know, it's all a question, according to military commanders, of the price you pay for that. There's about 200,000 to 250,000 troops overseas at any one time, 2.4 million in total. But, again, no question, it would cost a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of effort to get all of those troops or any portion of them fully trained, fully equipped, ready if there is any new additional threat to the United States -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Barbara Starr.
Now, two more of our troops have been killed in Iraq. The soldiers were killed in separate incidents north of Baghdad yesterday.
Nineteen of our troops have been killed so far this month, 3,268 troops have been killed since the war began. Another 24,476 troops have been wounded, 10,931 seriously.
Another deadly attack in Iraq today. Insurgents killed at least 25 people in a chlorine bomb attack. A suicide bomber blew up a truck carrying explosives and chlorine gas near a police checkpoint in Ramadi. That's the capital of Al Anbar Province. This is the ninth time insurgents have used chlorine gas in attacks.
British troops formerly held hostage by Iran are speaking out today. For nearly two weeks, they said the Iranians played mind games with them while they were in captivity. The sailors and marines said they were bound, blindfolded, also threatened with imprisonment. The troops said it would have been futile to resist when they were captured.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. FELIX CARMAN, BRITISH ROYAL NAVY: Let me make it absolutely clear. Irrespective of what's been said in the past, when we were detained by the IRG, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, we were inside internationally-recognized Iraqi territorial waters, and I can clearly state we were 1.7 nautical miles from Iranian waters.
CAPT. CHRIS AIR, BRITISH ROYAL MARINES: ... around our boats and train (ph) their heavy machine guns, RPG, and weapons on us. Another six boats were closing in on us. We realized that our efforts to reason with these people were not making any headway, nor were we able to calm some of the individuals down.
It was at this point that we realized that we had -- had we resisted, there would have been a major fight, one which we could not have won and with consequences that would have major strategic impacts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now, as the troops spoke about their ordeal, the White House blasted Iran's treatment of the British captives. But the White House emphasized that the United States is not seeking a confrontation with Iran.
Well, the White House tonight remains confident Attorney General Alberto Gonzales will keep his job, but tonight there is word that a top aide to Secretary Gonzales has resigned as the controversy over the firing of the U.S. attorneys continues.
Also, Senate Democrats are threatening to issue subpoenas to obtain Justice Department documents.
Ed Henry, traveling with the president, reports from Crawford, Texas -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Kitty.
You know, there's an old Washington adage that if you have bad news, get it out on a Friday night. Especially on a holiday weekend. There will be less media attention. That's getting to be a habit around the Bush Justice Department right now. As you'll remember, a few Fridays ago, they put out some damaging e-mails in this U.S. attorney case. Now, this evening, as you noted, Monica Goodling, a former top aide to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, has now resigned. She was counselor to the attorney general.
Also, importantly, she served as his liaison to the White House. And she had already invoked her Fifth Amendment right against self- incrimination so that she would not have to testify on Capitol Hill.
Her lawyers have suggested that was done, in part, because they believe Democrats in the Senate have already prejudged this case. Also, lawmakers in the House who are investigating it.
And their concerned that the lawyers have suggested that the deputy attorney general, Paul McNulty has already privately said that Monica Goodling had misinformed him before he testified on Capitol Hill earlier this year. So there's a concern that she was going to take the fall for that.
Now, Democratic senator Chuck Schumer today noted the former chief of staff has also resigned at the Justice Department, and says now, "Attorney General Gonzales's hold on the department gets more tenuous each day."
Now, the irony is that over the course of the last 24 hours, I have spoken to some advisers to Attorney General Gonzales who had been feeling fairly good about his political health. One adviser telling me that while certainly the attorney general is not out of the woods yet, this adviser said that he felt some of the air was coming out of the balloon of controversy. But now you have this shoe dropping, and also, as you noted at the top, Democrats on Capitol Hill threatening to subpoena the Justice Department if they don't get more documents -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Ed Henry.
And joining me now is senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeff, Monica Goodling, first she takes the Fifth Amendment, then she resigns. She seems to be raising controversy at every point here.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Why did she quit? Certainly that's an awfully good question, and that's what Democrats are going to want to know.
What is it that she did? What is it that she saw? What is it that she knows that means she had to go?
She's been taking the Fifth, so they have had no access to her. They can give her immunity and force her to testify.
Again, it's another part of the story that is yet to unfold, which is bad news for Attorney General Gonzales. PILGRIM: So we might see her yet testifying in this?
TOOBIN: Absolutely, we might see her yet. And you have these documents subpoenas that may come.
Again, what the administration wants to do is end this story, say, look, we have given all the information. We have answered all the questions.
The resignation of Goodling means simply there are more questions to be answered.
PILGRIM: You know, Senator Leahy, Chuck Schumer, Dianne Feinstein said they're not satisfied with the documents. They wrote a letter today to Secretary Gonzales, and we'll read you a clip from the letter.
"We're trying to get to the truth. Documents should be provided without restrictions on disclosure so that they may be used to question witnesses, including yourself, on any issue that is an important part of our inquiry."
So there were redactions and all sorts of information, they believe, should be in those documents, correct?
TOOBIN: Well, in fact, some documents were provided to the Judiciary Committee under extremely, frankly, bizarre restrictive consideration -- conditions. They were not allowed to copy them, to quote them, to even take any notes on them.
That, the Democrats are saying, was unacceptable. They are pushing forward towards a confrontation about getting some of those documents.
Certainly, if they are going to be questioning people, and there are relevant documents, it would seem normal that you would be able to quote documents in order to question people about them.
PILGRIM: Now, Gonzales was supposed to appear for budget -- a budget meeting on the 12th. That's now been canceled. He will now appear on the 17th.
This is a make-or-break moment for him, isn't it?
TOOBIN: It is, and the administration had been hoping to get him out on the 12th. That appropriations subcommittee was a somewhat less hostile environment, but in the old Nixon era phrase, the Democrats want to leave him twisting slowly, slowly in the wind for a little while longer.
And as the Goodling resignation illustrates, the longer this stretches on, the more bad news there's out there, and the more questions there are that he is going to need to answer.
PILGRIM: Thanks for sorting it out for us.
Jeffrey Toobin.
Thank you.
TOOBIN: OK.
PILGRIM: Still to come, the latest on the widening scandal over tainted pet food.
Also, top climate scientists issue their bleakest warning so far about the impact of global warming.
And the national crisis over illegal immigration. One of the two Democratic members of Congress who publicly opposes amnesty for illegal aliens is among our guests.
So stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The list of pet foods being recalled because of toxic wheat gluten from communist China, that list continues to grow. Menu Foods is expanding its recall to include more varieties of food.
The Food & Drug Administration is considering a theory that melamine could have been added to the gluten to increase the protein level. Now, the FDA says a higher protein level could command a higher price.
Senate majority whip Dick Durbin blasted the FDA's handling of the recall, and he said the Senate will hold hearings next week.
On our Web site, loudobbs.com, we have a list of the pet food brands and products that manufacturers insist are safe, and you can also find the links there to the Food & Drug Administration and the American Veterinary Medical Association. Those sites are maintaining up-to-the-minute lists of the recalled food.
Turning to the war on the middle class, Democrats received a lot of political mileage last fall with their promise to raise the federal minimum wage. So where is that pay raise?
As Christine Romans reports, it's stuck, where else, in the middle of partisan politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Three thousand five hundred and four days now since America's working poor had a pay raise. After all those promises for quick action...
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We're going to raise it and raise it and raise it and raise it...
ROMANS: ... America's minimum wage workers are still earning just $5.15 an hour. The House and Senate each approved bills raising the federal minimum to $7.25. REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: The bill is passed.
ROMANS: But two months later, the raise is stalled over the size and scope of tax breaks for business. And the debate has now moved on to Iraq.
KATY HEINS, LET JUSTICE ROLL: I think people did have a lot of hope, and I think that's why it's so disheartening that it's been bogged down. People feel a little bit -- a little bit angry, a little hopeless, and a little bit cynical of what happens in Washington.
ROMANS: But this is how Washington works.
BRUCE OPPENHEIMER, VANDERBILT UNIV.: The congressional process is not a fast process most of the time. It is slow. It is pulling and hauling and tugging. It is sweaty, and it doesn't happen with a magic wand.
ROMANS: There's nothing magic about struggling to live on less than $11,000 a year.
HEINS: It's a huge amount of money to get $50 in your check a week that will get you on the bus and get you to work on time.
ROMANS: While America's working poor have waited 10 years, Congress has raised its own pay by almost $35,000.
(on camera): And now, while America works, Congress is on vacation, with its promises of a higher minimum wage stuck in back- room deals. It's coming, we're told. Just not any time soon.
Christine Romans, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, many states aren't waiting for Congress to act. Twenty-nine states and the District of Columbia have adopted a minimum wage above the federal rate.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll.
Do you believe that Congress is putting political interests ahead of our nation's working men and women by failing to enact a higher federal minimum wage?
Vote yes or no, cast your vote at loudobbs.com. And we'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
And coming up, is it too late for a surprise candidate to enter the race for the White House? We'll examine the possibilities.
Also, just how significant was the military technology passed to communist China by a suspected spy?
We'll have a special report.
And more than 1,500 people are rescued as a cruise ship sinks off the coast of a Greek island.
We'll have the details.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: New developments today in the trial of Chi Mak. He is the naturalized American citizen charged with giving some of our most sensitive military secrets to communist China. A U.S. Navy expert testified today on the significance about secret technology and the rapid growth of the Chinese navy.
Casey Wian reports from outside the federal courthouse in Santa Ana, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The U.S. Navy's top intelligence expert on the communist Chinese navy testified Friday in the stolen military secrets trial of former defense industry engineer Chi Mak. Robert Garrity (ph) testified that the Chinese navy is growing rapidly and seeking to expand its reach and technological capabilities.
To that end, Garrity (ph) agreed that what the Chinese navy can't buy they will steal. And that's exactly what prosecutors allege that naturalized U.S. citizen Mak did during his 25-year career at defense contractor Power Paragon.
RICHARD FISHER, INTERNATIONAL ASSESSMENT & STRATEGY CENTER: The information that he has provided will give the Chinese government insights not only in developing counterpart technologies and weapons systems that will match American capabilities far sooner, but will also give the Chinese insights into defending themselves from these new American weapons.
WIAN: Mak's defense team claims some of the technology he allegedly tried to pass to the Chinese government was already in the public domain. They say Mak was just sharing information with colleagues doing commercial and academic work.
RON KAYE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He, like many Americans who are immigrants, has an affinity and a connection to his home country, but he is an American through and through.
He has been paying his taxes. He is well thought of by his neighbors. And the concept that he preferred or would be siding with the People's Republic of China is ludicrous.
WIAN: Military analysts say the submarine and warship technology involved has helped China close its performance gap with the U.S. Navy and could soon give China the means to invade U.S. protected Taiwan.
Experts say the Mak case fits China's pattern of recruiting ethnic Chinese working for U.S. military in technology companies. MIKE MOBERLY, INDUSTRIAL SECURITY CONSULTANT: The pressures that can come to bear on people to, for either nationalistic ties or strictly economic benefit they see down the road, are some interesting challenges that we're facing today to try to deal with those insider threats. But consistently it's insider, it's insider, insider type of situations we need to be most aware of.
WIAN: Mak faces more than 50 years in prison if convicted on all charges.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Defense attorneys raised the possibility that the technology in question could have commercial uses. Prosecutors answered that with rhetorical questions of their own, such as, "What commercial use could there possible be for a submarine with quite electric drive propulsion technology?"
Kitty.
PILGRIM: Well, exactly, Casey. And there are rules about dual- use technology anyway, correct?
WIAN: Absolutely. There are very strict rules about that, but the defense team for Mr. Mak claims that some of the documents that he is accused of transferring to China weren't marked as not for foreign eyes and weren't marked classified, weren't marked secret.
So there is some confusion as to whether he knew whether those documents were not to be passed to folks in China. Prosecutors say that's not true, that Mr. Mak was one of the authors of some of those documents and should have known better -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Casey Wian.
Well, coming up, a leading Democratic congresswoman who has broken ranks with her party on the issue of illegal immigration, she's our guest.
Also, an urgent new warning about dire threats to the human race and our planet from global warming.
Also, disaster at sea. A ship that carried hundreds of Americans on a Mediterranean cruise has sunk.
We'll have the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: A new report today paints the bleakest picture yet of the effect of global climate change. Now, according to the U.N. study, devastating droughts, forest fires, coastal flooding will all increase if we don't change the way we live.
Rob Marciano has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice over): February's report from the United Nations panel on global climate change was just the tip of the iceberg. It concluded that global warming is real, it's getting worse, and that human activity is driving it. And a follow-up released Friday in Brussels offers new details on the devastating effects climate change will likely bring to bear on humans, animals and the environment.
MARTIN PARRY, IPCC CO-CHAIR: We're no longer arm-waving with models that this might happen, right? This is what we call empirical information on the ground. We can measure it.
MARCIANO: Perhaps the most troubling finding is that by the end of the century, floods will permanently displace hundreds of millions of people as low-lying coastal areas are swallowed up by rising sea levels.
ROBERT CORELL, CLIMATE SCIENTIST: With a meter or two of sea level rise, we're likely to see hundreds of millions of what we'll call environmental refugees, people who no longer can live where they had lived for maybe thousands of years.
MARCIANO: The report predicts that where it's wet and hot, insect-borne diseases such as malaria will explode. Where it's dry, it's likely to become much drier. And some water supplies will vanish; notably, the glaciers in the Himalayas, the key water source for hundreds of millions of Asians. And the deserts will expand.
JAMES HANSEN, EARTH SCIENTIST: Already, we're beginning to see in the western United States that it is becoming drier and hotter. And if we go down the path of business as usual, we can expect basically permanent drought in the western United States.
MARCIANO: Another grim finding is that the world will see a spike in endangered species, with a wave of extinction from coral reefs to polar bears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our study in the Arctic suggested that the polar bear is on its way to extinction during this century, in most likelihood, and the reason for that this is that they live on the ice, they get their food off the ice, they snatch the seals through small air holes. And now most of that ice is no longer there and will disappear.
MARCIANO (on camera): Next month, another key section of the report will be released, and it's going to provide some much-needed guidance as to what we humans can do to stop global warming. And even scientists who fear the worst say it's not too late to avoid some of these nightmare scenarios.
Rob Marciano, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: A separate report today backs up that theory that global warming will lead to a severe drought in the Southwest United States.
Now, according to the "Journal of Science," the Southwest will face a permanent drought by the year 2050, and it adds that dust bowls like those during the 1930s could return for good.
Now, this report predicts that climate changes will force an adjustment of social and economic practices from Colorado to California.
A terrifying disaster today in the Aegean Sea. More than 1,500 passengers were forced to flee their sinking cruise ship after it struck a volcanic reef off the Greek island of Santorini. It's a very popular destination for American tourists.
Diana Magnay reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Dramatic nighttime pictures of the doomed Greek cruise ship the Sea Diamond. Rescue workers still circling long after they had evacuated those on board. At this stage, powerless to prevent the inevitable.
And here, just before 7:00 in the morning, 15 hours after she began to take in water, it's all over. All 22,500 tons of this enormous ship now lying on the sea bed near the Greek island of Santorini.
The Sea Diamond was carrying almost 1,600 people when she scraped a reef. Passengers said it all happened very suddenly.
TOM GATCH, PASSENGER: I heard the noise, and it was a loud noise, of course, and then I stepped outside of my cabin and looked, and the water was coming down the hallway. And I thought I have to go back inside to get my life jacket, but I had to open the door and didn't have time, because now the water was up over my ankles.
KATIE SUMNER, AUSTRALIAN PASSENGER: We heard a big shudder and the whole boat started to tilt. All of our glasses were sliding everywhere, and our warning that the ship was sinking of the staff running down the corridor screaming out "Life jackets!" and banging on doors.
MAGNAY: Military and commercial vessels took part in the three- hour rescue operation, and local fishermen rushed to help, while tourists on Santorini watched as this ship built as the ultimate in luxury took on more and more water.
But on Friday, the Greek tourism minister announced that two passengers were still missing.
FANNY PALLI PETRALIA, GREEK MINISTER OF TOURISM (through translator): The mother told me that it all happened within a few seconds. While one of the two children was upstairs on the deck, the rest of the family was in the cabin, which suddenly filled with water.
They managed to open the cabin door, and the mother dived and got out. She doesn't know whether her husband and her daughter managed to follow her.
MAGNI: In September 2000, more than 80 people drowned when the Express Samina ferry hit rocks and sank off the Greek island of Paros. Greece has since worked hard to improve its safety record.
The cruise operator says it has already launched an investigation into how this latest disaster was allowed to occur.
Diana Magni, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Again, more than 1,500 people escaped the sinking ship, about 700 of them Americans. And navy divers, meanwhile, today searched the sunken wreckage for the bodies of a Frenchman and his teenage daughter who disappeared amid the chaos.
Well, turning to our illegal immigration and border security crisis, the number of illegal aliens in this country is a staggering 12 to 20 million. A new report indicates why the number is so high.
Now, the Associated Press has found that from October 2000 to just September 2005, 98 percent of illegal aliens arrested crossing the border into this country were never prosecuted. Those illegal aliens were merely escorted back into Mexico, and many, of course, simply came right back in.
Nearly 100 members of Congress are demanding Speaker Nancy Pelosi oppose any legislation that offers amnesty to illegal aliens. Only two Democrats signed the letter to the speaker, and one of them is Congresswoman Nancy Boyda. And she joins me now from Topeka, Kansas.
And thank you very much for joining us.
REP. NANCY BOYDA (D), KANSAS: Thank you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Why did you decide to take this action?
BOYDA: Well, I've gone to leadership, and I'm very proud to be a Democrat, and I've just said, listen, we're going to have to part company. This whole thing on amnesty and immigration is an important issue in my district, and I think in the entire country.
And on a given day, I said I'm not sure you understand the amount of outrage that's going on in our country by not enforcing our laws and protecting our borders.
PILGRIM: All right. Congresswoman Boyda, I'd like to actually read a section of this for the benefit of our viewers.
In this letter, you write, "Amnesty encourages more illegal immigration. It tells all those who have patiently waited abroad that they are foolish." And it goes on to say, "The United States has the most generous legal immigration system in the world. We should take the side of American workers and taxpayers, legal immigrants, and the rule of law."
What is your chief concern -- yes, go ahead.
BOYDA: Let me also say, Kitty, there is -- we -- there was a letter that was kind of a companion letter that also went to President Bush saying, please, you know, the American people are asking you. And what we're asking for is that we provide security first, secure the borders, protect the boarders, and then find a way to enforce the laws.
And when I talk to leadership, I just say there's no trust with the American people after what happened in 1986. Nobody believes that the enforcement is going to come, so show that you're going to have some enforcement. Show that you're going to protect the borders, and then we'll talk about how we take care of the rest of the issue. It's a huge, massive, massive problem.
PILGRIM: Now, this letter to President Bush talks about the employers, the crack-down on employers. We've seen a flurry of raids, very high-profile raids. The numbers not particularly large in -- you know, in contrast to how many illegal aliens are actually working in this country.
What's your view of the efforts that are being made at this point?
BOYDA: Really, we need to start and say our employers need a system that they can even have to verify who's here legally or not legally. Right now that's so much of the problem. Employers don't know. There's no system. And you just have to ask was there ever intended to be a system?
You know, they've had 20 years to put it together, and it's not together. Well, gee, maybe they never wanted a system. We've got to have a system that allows employers to be able to show who is here legally or not and then take the necessary action.
And that's to me what I've told leadership I think that needs to be done first. And then again to continue working on protecting the border, as well. Show the American people you're serious. And then -- then let's start talking about how we -- how we integrate everybody into the country.
PILGRIM: Let me get your thoughts on another program. We've reported extensively on this broadcast about a pilot program to allow Mexican trucks to carry goods to all parts of the country. It's -- and last week you introduced the Save American Roads Act of 2007, which would limit the DOT's authority. What do you hope to achieve here?
BOYDA: Well, let me tell you how I started that. We actually introduced -- well, didn't introduce, but we had a Bill that was ready that said we need to just stop this whole thing with the trucks coming in from Mexico.
And leadership was very good and said, "You know what? You're not going to get that through. That's part of NAFTA, and you're not going to renogotiate NAFTA as a freshman in Congress."
And so they helped to put together what was a Bill that we thought was the toughest and would say if you're going to do this, then make sure that you're not rushing into it. Make sure that you've met all the 22 criteria that have to be done, and let's take our -- let's be very careful before we -- before we rush into this.
So, you know, on a given day I think if we need to take a complete relook at NAFTA, that works for me. But until then we're going to make sure that this pilot program is not rushed into, and we're going to keep our American roads safe.
PILGRIM: You know, I find it intriguing your Bill is also going to require that the DOT allow public comment on this.
BOYDA: Yes.
PILGRIM: How might that public comment be incorporated into the final -- it's a lovely concept.
BOYDA: My guess is there's going to be a lot of public comment on this one. And I think, again, the American people want to be part of this conversation.
So, you know, I think we've taken it -- it's a real good, practical piece of common sense legislation. What I've been told, again, is that this piece of legislation that I put together, again, with the help of some of the leadership, Oberstar and DeFazio, have said that we can get this all the way through and said we're going to fight to make sure that this Bill actually gets through.
And that's important. We don't want just talk about it. People are sick and tired of talking about it. We want some action. We want to know that things are being taken care of.
PILGRIM: Congresswoman Nancy Boyda, thanks for being with us tonight.
BOYDA: Thank you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. Do you believe Congress is putting political interests ahead of our nation's working men and women by failing to enact a higher federal minimum wage? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
And coming up, our distinguished panel of political analysts will be here to discuss the presidential race. And that election is still a year and a half away, but is it already too late for a new candidate to enter the fray? We'll have a report on that.
Also, heroes. Our weekly tribute to our service men and women serving overseas. Tonight the story of one helicopter pilot who put his life on the line to save wounded troops. Stay with us for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Even though the 2008 presidential election is more than a year and a half away, the field of candidates for both parties pretty well set, but as Bill Schneider reports, there still might be a chance for some late comers to join the race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Is it too late for a sleeper candidate to get into the presidential race? The chairman of the South Carolina Republican party says...
KATON DAWSON, S.C. REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN: If they're sleeping, they better get awake real quick.
SCHNEIDER: It might not be a problem for well-known figures like former Senator Fred Thompson.
DAWSON: I've certainly seen a lot of excitement for Senator Thompson.
SCHNEIDER: He's a TV star. No problem with name recognition.
RICH GALEN, MULLINGS.COM: More people will watch Fred Thompson every week on "Law & Order" -- 20, 25 million, if you include all of the versions of it -- than will vote in total in the primary season.
SCHNEIDER: Newt Gingrich has name recognition and a following. So does Al Gore and an Oscar-winning movie to boot.
Is there money out there for a new candidate? Sure. You can only give $2,300 to a candidate, but you can give to more than one candidate.
GALEN: For most people who are in a position to give $2,300, they can write another check for $2,300.
SCHNEIDER: Right now only about a third of Republicans and Democrats favor the frontrunners in their parties: Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton.
Many polls have shown Al Gore running third among Democrats, and Gingrich or Thompson third among Republicans. Looks like voters are open to new choices, especially Republicans. Fifty-seven percent of Republicans want more choices. Fifty-seven percent of Democrats say they're satisfied with the choices they now have.
DAN BALZ, "WASHINGTON POST": Democrats would like to have the 2008 election held tomorrow if they could do it.
SCHNEIDER: Are Republicans unhappy because their leading candidates are not conservative enough? This strategist says that's not it.
GALEN: My sense is that it's not so much an ideological fight as it is an argument over who can win this thing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: this campaign may not be about ideological tests in either party. More likely it's going to be about finding a winner -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Bill Schneider. Bill, stay with us, because joining us with more on the 2008 campaign is Ed Rollins, the former White House political director, and also syndicated columnist Miguel Perez. And gentlemen, thanks for joining us.
Ed, I really have to get your comments on Bill Schneider's report.
ED ROLLINS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I think he's exactly right, as always. Bill is one of the most brilliant observers of the game.
PILGRIM: We think so.
ROLLINS: Those -- those individuals he mentioned do have very high name I.D. and do have a little base of following. And I think as relates to Republicans, you've got three kind of non-establishment players in Romney, Giuliani and McCain.
And I think McCain was the frontrunner for the last year or so and has really faltered in the last couple of months, and I think people are looking for alternatives. Giuliani is an unknown entity at this time out of New York. He's a national hero because of September 11, and people being on his position (ph). And Romney just hasn't caught fire yet.
PILGRIM: Let's take a look at what they've been able to raise. We do have the figures on that. We have Mitt Romney at $20.6 million. Rudy Giuliani at $15 million. I know they have the figures somewhere. And John McCain at $12.5 million.
Miguel, what do you think about that line-up?
MIGUEL PEREZ, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: What is significant about that is who they're getting the money from and how many people they're getting the money from.
As opposed to, you know, Obama getting smaller donations from a lot of people, Romney is getting huge donations from very few people. So people are not as invested, I think, in the Romney campaign as they are in the Obama campaign or in the Hillary Clinton campaign.
PILGRIM: Yes. Let's -- you know, it's actually really interesting to see the breakdown, because it's not just the aggregate totals. It's the number of people who have given. And we have some figures on that. John McCain raised $12.5 million from nearly 50,000 donors, but Senator Barack Obama raised $25 million from 100,000 donors. So it's a broader base.
PEREZ: There's a difference.
PILGRIM: Let's ask Bill. Bill, how does that factor in?
SCHNEIDER: It factors in very simply. Obama raised more -- from more people in smaller amounts. What does that mean? He can go back to those people and ask them to give more money. A lot of them gave money over the Internet, and, you know, $50, $100.
He has a real donor base there that he can continue to mine month after month, quarter after quarter. It may be easier for him to sustain his fundraising.
ROLLINS: The other thing is he has an emotional attachment. He's going out having the largest crowds of anybody. He is asking people for their e-mails. He basically has -- he has the crusade at this time.
The real disappointment of this, I think, is John McCain. John McCain has been running for eight years. He did have a political base from eight years ago, has been mailing nonstop. I get three or four pieces of mail every week from the McCain campaign.
And he not only didn't raise money substantially, he spent money. And when those figures come out, he has a long, hard road ahead.
PILGRIM: How important is the Internet? I mean, we might see that this really -- the connected generation may be giving $25, $30, $50. We may get a good broad base coming from Internet participation -- Miguel.
PEREZ: It's bigger and bigger every election, and it's going to continue that way. What is significant, though, I think is that the race between the Democrats, you have Obama and Hillary so close and probably a very tight race through the whole primary season.
They're going to have enough money to really go at each other. Maybe get a little dirty. So in the end all of that money being raised by the Democrats might benefit the Republicans.
PILGRIM: Yes. I mean, how dangerous is it?
ROLLINS: First of all, the first time in a presidential campaign since probably '76 where you had an incumbent president in the sense of Carter, Republicans have been out raised literally 3-2 by the Democratic candidates, and I think that's a great -- a great -- a great statement by their part.
PILGRIM: OK. Let's get Bill Schneider, last comment on this, and then we'll go on to some other political topics -- Bill.
SCHNEIDER: Well, I asked the reporter who is out in Iowa to compare the Clinton and the Obama audiences, and he made an interesting point. He said the people who come to the Obama rallies are really thrilled to be there. Many of them are anti-Iraq war. But also, a lot of them like his unifying message. You put those two together. You know, it's rare to make that combination. But he said a lot of them are independents. They're Republicans. It's an impressive crowd, and they're very passionate.
He said Hillary Clinton's audiences are different. She tends to appeal to poor Democratic constituencies, to liberal activists, to trade unions. Those are the kinds of people who often determine the outcome of caucuses.
PILGRIM: Let's move on to another topic that's pretty much been consuming the discussion today, because we've had some developments, and that's Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. One of his top aides resigns. There's now a letter that says that they may demand subpoenas for some documents because -- and, also, we have President Bush still vehemently defending him.
Let's listen to what President Bush had to say today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There had been no credible evidence of wrongdoing, and that's what the American people have got to understand. We had a right to remove them. We did remove them. And there's been -- there will be more hearings to determine what I have just said. No credible evidence of wrongdoing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Bill, since you're in Washington, we ask you first. What kind of a buzz is this still having in Washington?
SCHNEIDER: People are waiting expectantly for the attorney general's testimony on April 17. He's out there alone with only George Bush behind him, and right now George Bush ain't much when it comes to political support.
The Republicans in Congress are very skeptical about his survival. They want to see how well he can explain and defend himself. And several Republicans, as well as Democrats, have urged them to start by making an apology for misleading Congress.
PILGRIM: That's right -- Miguel.
PEREZ: How does he explain himself? By saying, "Look, I was fooled by the White House and by people that were working under me? They left me completely out, and so I'm sort of like not very bright?"
Or does he say, "Oh, I was part of it"? And if he was part of it, then he should be resigning already.
ROLLINS: This is no longer about doing something wrong, as the president clearly was in his right to fire anybody that has a presidential appointment, but it's a question of can Gonzales continue to lead the Justice Department?
He clearly misled the Congress. I think his own department has no respect for him at this point in time, and I think to a certain extent to try and go 22 more months, as the attorney general just hurt this administration terribly.
PILGRIM: Well, we'll be discussing this as April 17 approaches.
In the meantime, this week Nancy Pelosi received a good deal of criticism for her trip to the Middle East after meeting with Syrian President Assad. What do you -- let's start with Bill Schneider, since he's in Washington.
What do you think is the real sort of bottom line on this? Was this trip a mistake, or was it not?
SCHNEIDER: Well, look, she is the leader of Congress, and Congress is a co-equal branch of government. There's a lot of criticism coming out of the White House. Doesn't seem to me she went a great deal further than congressional delegations typically do when they go overseas.
And a lot of members of Congress have visited the Middle East, have visited Syria. So the criticism of bad behavior -- that's an odd usage from the vice president -- seemed to me to be very strange.
PILGRIM: There was a good bit of focus, though, on one gaff. She said Israel was ready to engage in peace talks with Syria. That immediately shot down, basically, by Israel.
Miguel, do you think that these missteps are significant, or is this just...
PEREZ: Absolutely. She's not the secretary of state, and she doesn't speak for the administration. Certainly not for the administration. But at the same time I think our government should be united when it comes to dealing with the so-called axis of evil.
And all of those countries that represent the axis of evil, when we go there, we should go with one voice and one mind, and she's sort of, you know...
ROLLINS: She is the presiding offer, and I would argue this is quite different than a congressional delegation. A congressional delegation seldom basically tries to carry one message from one country to another.
And I think to a certain extent, she's still in her honeymoon period, but I think to a certain extent she's not making a very favorable impression. And I think she has given the Republicans and the radio talk show types an opportunity to go beat up on her as opposed to beating up on Gonzales.
PILGRIM: As did the "Washington Post". There's a quote we have from that: "As any diplomat with knowledge of the region could have told Mrs. Pelosi, Mr. Assad is a corrupt thug whose overriding priority at the moment is not peace with Israel. The really striking development here is an attempt by a Democratic congressional leader to substitute her own foreign policy for that of a sitting Republican president."
ROLLINS: She got 48,000 -- I mean, she got 148,435 votes, and she needs 62 million if she wants to act like president.
PILGRIM: All right. Last point, quick. President Bush is headed to Yuma, Arizona, on Monday. Another border event. Talking about border security and immigration reform.
How significant, Bill, do you think this is?
SCHNEIDER: Well, if he wants to make a strike for, you know, policy that could be his legacy and the legacy for his party, he might try to make a deal with Democrats to pass his immigration reform bill.
What he calls it -- what he calls the immigration reform because the Democrats, that's the one issue on which he's likely to get cooperation from a lot of Democrats.
PILGRIM: Miguel.
PEREZ: Certain members of this administration just last week were floating ideas that are even more conservative, not to the liking of the Democrats at all. Basically what he's telling the people -- the public now is that, look, we want you to give them a long, long time before they become citizens on borders.
PILGRIM: Stretching out.
ROLLINS: A long hard battle before anything happens. I would doubt if they get anything this year. They may this session, but not this year.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Ed Rollins, Miguel Perez and Bill Schneider. Thank you for being with us.
ROLLINS: Sure.
PILGRIM: Coming up next, "Heroes". Our weekly tribute to the men and women serving this country in uniform. I'll have the story of Black Hawk pilot awarded the Bronze Star for his courage under fire. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now "Heroes", our tribute to the men and women who serve this country in uniform.
And tonight the story of Chief Warrant Officer Christian Beck, an Army Black Hawk helicopter pilot serving with the 82nd Medical Company. His job, to rescue our wounded warriors in Iraq, and it was a duty he carried out in December two years ago. He was wounded himself and under heavy fire.
Bill Tucker has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chief Warrant Officer Christian Beck flies Black Hawk helicopters in some of the most important and dangerous missions in Iraq.
Beck's helicopter is unarmed. He flies urgent medical evacuation missions rescuing troops wounded in combat.
C.W.O. CHRISTIAN BECK, U.S. ARMY: We are the fastest means to get somebody off the battlefield back to an area which they can receive higher medical care, and we try and operate inside the golden hour, and that being from the time of injury plus one hour.
TUCKER: Beck comes from a military family. His father, his sister, and his two brothers have all served their country. He joined the Army after college. Married with two young children, he has served more than three tours in Iraq, flying more than 500 medevac missions.
BECK: The medevac community is stretched kind of thin, but we're needed in the field, and we understand that. You don't want to leave your family and kids again, but that's where you really get to go and do the mission that you've trained to do.
TUCKER: It was on a routine mission in December 2004 that Beck and his crew came under heavy enemy fire.
BECK: I was on the controls at the time, and I was banking to the left, and we took the round, and I announced that I had been hit.
TUCKER: A bullet pierced the bottom of his Black Hawk.
BECK: Hit me on my left -- on my right leg, which was on the pedals at the time, and, therefore, I transferred the flight controls to my co-pilot. He took over flying duties, and I just picked up on radios and navigation and wound care.
TUCKER: Beck suffered a calf wound requiring eight surgeries and rehabilitation. For his wounds, he was awarded a Purple Heart. For his heroism, a Bronze Star.
BECK: I don't feel like I did anything above and beyond what any of my other fellow co-pilots or pilots or medics or anybody in the unit would go out and do. The biggest reward that we receive is getting those soldiers off the battlefield.
TUCKER: Bill Tucker, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Beck is currently stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas. He's preparing to be redeployed later this year. We wish him the very best.
And still ahead, our poll results. We'll also see how many of you think Congress is putting political interests ahead of our nation's working men and women. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll: 95 percent of you believe Congress is putting political interests ahead of our nation's working men and women by failing to enact a higher federal minimum wage.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
John in Tennessee writes, "Just one question for your: why are we as Americans tolerating the dismantling of the American economy and shipping it overseas?"
Tony in Virginia: "H1B visas and outsourcing have ruined my career in computer systems development. After 35 years of skill and experience, I have no job, no health care, no money, and nowhere to go. Thanks, NAFTA!"
And Vicki in Michigan writes, "Why are we still hearing nothing about the North American Union from Congress? Construction is due to begin on the NAFTA Superhighway in 2007 and Americans know nothing about this. Only Ron Paul and Tom Tancredo protest. Where is the rest of Congress?"
Barry in Illinois: "Congress complains the president is not listening to them. Now they know how we feel."
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow for all of us here. Thanks for watching. Good night from New York. Have a great weekend.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Kitty.
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