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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Presidential Campaigns Earning Record Amounts of Money; Food Safety Failure?
Aired July 16, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: Mexican drug cartels are invading this country. Drug traffickers have built armed camps in our national parks. They're growing marijuana. The federal government say our public lands are under attack. We will have that special report.
Also tonight, the Bush administration defying the will of the people and the Congress on the issue of food safety. The Bush administration refuses to implement rules to identify the national origin of our imported food. We will have that report.
And some members of the illegal alien lobby and open borders lobby are wearing masks of that good-looking fellow, pressing their case for amnesty and open borders. One of their leaders is Christine Neumann-Ortiz. She's among our guests here tonight.
We will also be examining racism and sexism in American society and the role of hip-hop music -- all of that, all the day's news and a great deal more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, July 16.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Democrats today escalating their confrontation with the White House over the conduct of the war in Iraq. Those Democrats declared they will hold an all-night debate in the Senate on the progress of this war tomorrow night. Senate Republicans accuse the Democrats of playing politics. The White House says Congress should not be trying to manage this war.
Dana Bash has our report from Capitol Hill -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, pulling an all-nighter is a tried and true way to get attention around here. But the reality is, it may be good press for Democrats, but it may not give them exactly what they're looking for and what they need, votes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice over): It will be a classic Senate spectacle. Democrats plan to roll in cots for the cameras and stage an all-night Iraq debate. Pure political theater intended to shine a spotlight on Republicans who won't vote for a deadline for troop withdrawal.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: They're protecting the president rather than protecting our troops.
BASH: Privately, Democrats admit their theatrics are not likely to produce GOP votes. Only three Republicans now support the Democrats' withdrawal deadline, nowhere near enough to pass. And just one other GOP senator, Maine's Susan Collins, says she is considering voting yes.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: There's only one vote that will change the course in Iraq, that will force the president to change the course in Iraq. And that is the vote on Reid-Levin.
BASH: Democratic leaders insist they will only vote for a plan that brings troops home. And that's why several less strict Iraq measures from Republicans trying to pressure the president are not likely to pass.
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: I admire my Democratic colleagues, but when they see something good, sometimes they like to push back real quickly.
BASH: Many Democrats oppose legislation from two influential GOP senators that would force the president to send Congress a plan to narrow the Iraq mission. The same goes for a bipartisan measure backed by half a dozen GOP senators to adopt recommendations from the Iraq Study Group, including a goal of troop withdrawal starting next spring.
REID: There's not a single tooth in that proposal. No, I can't vote for it.
SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R), TENNESSEE: If Harry Reid would play less politics and the president would be more flexible, we could have 60 votes in the Senate for the Baker-Hamilton recommendations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, it's not just the Democrats who are dug in. The White House isn't budging either. The administration opposes any Iraq legislation from Democrats or Republicans, at least right now -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much -- Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
The White House tonight is stepping up its efforts trying to stop the GOP revolt over the conduct of the war in Iraq. White House press Secretary Tony Snow today finally acknowledged there is a Republican revolt. Until today, the White House appeared to be in denial about that GOP opposition.
Ed Henry has our report from the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, new White House counselor Ed Gillespie hosted a closed-door meeting here today with the Republican press secretaries from Capitol Hill to coordinate message on a range of issues, especially Iraq, as senior Republicans break with the president on the war.
In fact, CNN has learned that Republican Senator George Voinovich had a blunt phone conversation with the president's top adviser, Karl Rove. Voinovich confirms that he told Rove so many mistakes in Iraq have been made, that the only way to save the president's legacy is to craft a workable plan to withdraw U.S. troops in a way that keeps the troops safe, but also stabilizes the region.
Now, Rove tells CNN that the call did take place. He speaks regularly with Voinovich, and they did talk about the president's legacy, but he will not get into details. This comes as moderate Republican Senator Susan Collins tells "Newsweek" her patience with the administration's strategy in Iraq has been exhausted.
The pressure on the president has grown enough that after days of insisting Republicans were not splitting with the White House, spokesman Tony Snow today admitted the obvious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, some Republicans have broken. But a number of these Republicans previously have expressed skepticism. If you look at the difference in votes, it's not huge.
But on the other hand, you also have expressions -- you can call it a break. But if you take a look at Senators Warner and Lugar, for instance, they're concerned about getting to a point where you can pull American forces out of the front-line role. But they're not talking about leaving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: In private, Senator Voinovich is a little more blunt, using a profanity to describe the White House's handling of the war in Iraq, charging the administration -- quote -- "'blanked' up the war."
And while Voinovich is giving the White House until September to get a progress report from General David Petraeus, he's privately warning that if the president does not have a new strategy in place by mid-September, he will endorse a Democratic plan that has a timeline to withdraw U.S. troops -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed Henry reporting from the White House.
Senator David Vitter is at a news conference. These are live pictures of Senator David Vitter of Louisiana, his wife, Wendy, just one week after he admitted using a Washington escort service.
Let's listen in to what the senator is saying.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
SEN. DAVID VITTER (R), LOUISIANA: Since then, I have gotten up every morning, committed to trying to live up to the important values we believe in. If continuing to believe in and acknowledge those values causes some to attack me because of my past failings, well, so be it.
Unfortunately, my admission has encouraged some long-time political enemies and those hoping to profit from the situation to spread falsehoods too, like those New Orleans stories in recent reporting. Those stories are not true.
Now, having said all of this, I'm not going to answer endless questions about it all over again and again and again and again. That might sell newspapers, but it wouldn't serve my family or my constituents well at all because we all have a lot of important work to do for Louisiana.
For my part, I will be helping finalize a crucial water resources bill to provide much better hurricane and flood protection. I will be following up on our important defeat of a bad immigration bill by working for good border and workplace security.
DOBBS: Senator David Vitter in New Orleans, addressing the issue that has dominated the headlines over the course of the past week, that is, his number found in the so-called D.C. madam's book.
And Senator Vitter, obviously, not announcing a resignation, but rather announcing that he will continue to, as he put it, put forward more effort to serving the people of Louisiana.
Let's listen to his wife's comments here very quickly.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
WENDY VITTER, WIFE OF SENATOR VITTER: You know, in most any other marriage, this would have been a private issue between a husband and a wife -- very private. Obviously, it is not here.
Like all marriages, ours is not perfect. None of us are. But we choose to work together as a family. When David and I dealt with this privately years ago, I forgave David. I made the decision to love him and to recommit to our marriage. To forgive is not always the easy choice, but it was and is the right choice for me. David is my best friend.
Last week, some people very sympathetically said to me, "I wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now." I stand before you to tell you very proudly, I am proud to be Wendy Vitter.
That's not to say that last week wasn't incredibly trying and very sad, not for our marriage -- our marriage is stronger every day -- but for our children.
And now I'm going to speak to you as a mother and I hope you will understand. It's been terribly hard to have the media parked on our front lawn and following us every day. And yesterday, the media was camped at our church -- at our home, and at our church every day.
As David returns to work in Washington, we're going to return to our life here. I would ask you very respectfully to let us continue our summer and our lives as we had planned. Thank you very much.
DOBBS: With those words, we're going to respect the privacy of the Vitters, Wendy Vitter, Senator David Vitter concluding what has had to be a week of ordeal for them. And Senator Vitter pledging he's going to return to Washington, the Vitter family obviously trying to put this behind them, and they will move on with their lives as best they can.
Turning now to new concerns on terrorism, there are new concerns tonight that radical Islamic terrorists may use Europe as a base to attack this country. A new national intelligence estimate is expected to say al Qaeda has stepped up its efforts to infiltrate terrorists into the United States.
Al Qaeda has already launched a series of attacks in Europe, as Kelli Arena now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Madrid 2004. London 2005, Glasgow just two weeks ago. Europe is now one of the most important battlegrounds in the war on terror. And extremists there may be heading here.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: And, as we have seen over the past couple of years, the increase in homegrown terrorism in Europe, that has given us some cause for concern.
ARENA: The threat is expected to be outlined in stark detail in the national intelligence estimate. The report is expected to show that al Qaeda is more determined than ever to get operatives inside the United States. Most officials predict that they will come from Europe. Reports show that in 2006 alone, European countries arrested more than 200 Islamic terror suspects. The jihadi movement is definitely growing. But Europe's ability to fight it is uneven.
MICHAEL JACOBSON, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: There are some governments in Europe, such as the U.K., France, Spain, which recognize the terrorist threat, have taken a variety of steps to combat it. Then there's a lot of other European countries, particularly some of the new members, that are not as focused on the threat and don't have the same type of capability.
ARENA: Another concern, it's easy for Europeans to travel here. Most don't need a visa, which means less scrutiny.
CHERTOFF: What we would like to do is get more information on everybody who travels under the program than we currently do. We would then be able to check who we think needs to be interviewed before they got on an airplane.
ARENA: In fact, there are 27 countries that are covered by the visa waiver program, a program the secretary admits makes us vulnerable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Now, since September 11, al Qaeda has dispatched an operative with a European passport, Richard Reid, the so-called shoe bomber. Now, he wasn't successful, but al Qaeda has shown a remarkable capacity to learn from its mistakes -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kelli, thank you very much -- Kelli Arena reporting from Washington.
Coming up next here: the presidential election campaign breaking records. We will have that report.
Also, the biggest financial settlement in the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church -- lots of money, no trials.
And the amnesty, open borders lobby, a new tactic to highlight their cause. They're wearing masks. What a good-looking fellow, don't you think? I have said that twice now. I don't mean it. We will have the story and more.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Record amounts of money are pouring into the presidential campaigns with the first caucus and primaries still six months away. Second-quarter figures show Republicans and Democrats both spending nearly $50 million on their presidential campaigns.
Bill Schneider now reports on the huge amounts of money that they're collecting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): This campaign is breaking all records. In just the first six months of this year, candidates have raised more money than during the entire year before the last election. Usually Republicans raise more money than Democrats. Not this time.
Total raised so far by Democrats? About $160 million. And by Republicans? About $105 million.
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: You have a Democratic base that is willing to open up their wallets and to give these candidates $5, $10, $15, $250, $1,000 donations. They see a chance at the opportunity to take back the White House.
SCHNEIDER: Money raised is only half the story. Many of the candidates are burning through that money at unprecedented rates. Mitt Romney has spent nearly three-quarters of the money he's brought in. Rudy Giuliani, about half. The candidates who have raised the least are in the most danger, like Jim Gilmore, who spent almost all of his money and dropped out of the race, and John McCain, who has had to scale back his campaign. PRESTON: John McCain is running as a grassroots campaign. Instead of having an operation in all 50 states, John McCain in going to focus on four states. He doesn't have the money to do anything else.
SCHNEIDER: Look at the cash on hand for each contender. Among Democrats, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are clearly in a class by themselves. No Republicans have cash comparable to theirs. McCain is now a second-tier contender, along with Ron Paul. Can candidates with little cash even make it to the first primaries?
PRESTON: As long as a so-called second-tier candidate is judicious about how he spends his money at this point, there's no question that they're in the race until January.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Those second-tier candidates like McCain have to concentrate on relatively small and inexpensive states, like Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, and hope for a breakthrough to give them momentum to run in the states they can't afford to run in right now.
DOBBS: And, Bill, in this case, momentum equals the opportunity to raise more money.
SCHNEIDER: Right. But it's going to be difficult, because there's only a few weeks between those early states and the big states.
DOBBS: Is there not a -- do you not sense that there is a feeling in this country that this is just -- $100 million for a successful candidacy, that's just obscene.
SCHNEIDER: It is an obscene amount of money and you have to raise it through private contributions. The only thing you can say is, the law prohibits any contribution in excess of $2,300. So, you can't have people giving millions of dollars to the campaigns out of their own pockets.
DOBBS: Well, unless you happen to be a billionaire and want to write some checks and support your candidacy, right?
SCHNEIDER: Well, you can't give money to a candidate. You can only give -- an individual can only give $2,300...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: NO, no, I'm talking about supporting one's -- I was making a sly reference, if you will -- not so sly -- to Michael Bloomberg, for example, or Mitt Romney or any number...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHNEIDER: Oh. Oh, that's a very big deal.
The law says and the Supreme Court has said if you have the money you can spend every cent you have on your own campaign.
DOBBS: You wonder if it's not more about capitalism than democracy in that instance, right?
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: Appreciate it. Good to see you.
More staffers quitting Senator John McCain's presidential campaign today. Five people working in the press office handing in their resignations. Four staffers also leaving the Iowa and the South Carolina offices. Just over two weeks ago, Senator McCain employed about 120 people nationwide. An outgoing staffer told CNN that two- thirds of the staffers have now left.
It's now time for some of your thoughts.
Julie in Pennsylvania wrote in to say: "Lou, I just received my new voter registration card in the mail today. It now says, independent instead of Democrat. Let's hope that with so many of us changing our affiliation that it will send a message to our elected officials: 'You work for us.' Keep up the good work."
Julie, we're proud of you.
And Marcie (sic) in New Jersey said: "Dear Lou, with all the lack of interest in the American middle class by both parties, I too have officially changed my affiliation to independent. I hope other middle-class Americans wake up and make their voices heard."
And Bill in Indiana: "Lou, is corporate America responsible for China's growing economy and military power buildup? Go to Wal-Mart and just walk around. It's hard to buy anything not made in China. We are financing our own downfall."
More of your thoughts coming up here later in the broadcast.
The Catholic Church in Los Angeles today finalizing what is the largest payout in the Catholic Church sex scandal. The deal also keeps Cardinal Roger Mahony from testifying in court about the possible cover-up of abusive priests.
A judge approved a $660 million payout to some 500 victims of sex abuse by Catholic priests and clergy. Attorneys will receive about 40 percent of that record $600 million payout. Today's settlement comes on top of $174 million that the Los Angeles Archdiocese has already paid to 131 of their victims.
The settlement also calls for the release of confidential personnel files about priests. Those files could reveal whether Catholic leaders, including the cardinal, were involved in shielding abusive priests. Five dioceses have filed for bankruptcy protection after lawsuits by abuse victims seeking millions of dollars in damages. Those dioceses are San Diego; Tucson, Arizona; Portland; Spokane; and Davenport, Iowa.
Coming up here next: rising concerns about dangerous food imports. We will tell you how much or just little your government is doing about our food safety.
And the border drug wars. You won't believe where the drug cartels are now practicing their trade. The top drug official in the country calls it simply an invasion, an attack on this nation.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Earlier, I said Marcie in New Jersey when reading those e-mails. It was Nancy.
My apologies to Nancy. And we will do better on the next one, I'm sure.
President Bush today signed country-of-origin labeling laws for food imports -- five years ago, he had signed that. But incredibly, those laws are still not in effect. Powerful lobbying groups -- imagine this -- have managed to delay implementation of those laws until 2008.
Kitty Pilgrim reports on why a law meant to inform and to protect consumers has been delayed into all but non-existence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Food from all over the world, consumers may like the variety, but they also want to know where their food is coming from, and they can't tell.
Laws enacted by Congress in 2002 to require country-of-origin labeling, so-called COOL laws, but powerful lobbying groups pushed back implementation of those laws for most products until 2008.
URVASHI RANGAN, "CONSUMER REPORTS": In Congress, the delay was done in 2004 and then again another delay was made in 2006. So, there's definitely been opportunities for country-of-origin labeling to go into effect and it's most clearly been derailed at least twice.
PILGRIM: The recent discovery of numerous cases of contaminated food, especially from China, have caused health scares. Just this week, popular snacks manufactured in the United States but containing Chinese ingredients were found to be contaminated with salmonella.
A Web site sponsored by the American Meat Institute advocates no country-of-origin labeling, reading: "a coalition of entities who are deeply concerned about the costly, trade distorting, and disruptive nature of mandatory country-of-origin labeling."
But the American Farmers Union, which represents a quarter- million producers of all types of fruit, vegetables, grain, and other commodities is for country-of-origin labeling.
TOM BUIS, NATIONAL FARMERS UNION: We have been advocating this for about 15 years and actually got it into the 2002 farm bill as part of the law signed in to law by President Bush. Importers have been able to block and delay the implementation time after time after time.
PILGRIM: The USDA said even though the law has been passed, it's not a final rule. It's still only a proposed rule.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the USDA even now is taking more time to implement those proposed rules. They're in a 60-day open comment period to solicit comment on how the public feels about the rules.
But the law was passed. President Bush signed it. And it's clear the American public really wants this legislation.
DOBBS: All right, help us all out here. Is this thing the law or isn't it?
PILGRIM: You know, I went through this about six times with the USDA. They said, it is a law, but it's still a proposed rule. And, so, until the USDA acts on it, it will not be a final rule.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: So, these incompetent, cowardly people -- I will call them people -- I am going to be generous; I am going to call them people -- at the USDA are not implementing a law signed by the president, passed by the Congress, and it's been five years?
PILGRIM: And they say they're still soliciting comments, so they can write it...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: OK. I have got a comment.
USDA, listen to me. Start protecting the American consumer. Do your jobs.
And, if it's the Bush administration, Mr. President, why don't you just get one thing right in your administration and start protecting consumers?
Is that fair comment?
PILGRIM: It's pretty clear.
DOBBS: OK.
We will pass that on to the USDA.
What a -- unbelievable.
Kitty, thank you very much -- Kitty Pilgrim.
Tonight's poll question: Do you believe the United States should begin enforcing country-of-origin laws, country-of-origin labeling on every imported product, yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We will send the results to the USDA, the consumer -- and the White House.
Speaking of which, coming up next, the White House says Mexican drug cartels have invaded this country. By the way, we have been telling the White House that for several years now. We have been reporting on drug cartels in our national forests, in our state forests, doing precisely this. We will have that special report.
Also tonight, the Senate will hold hearings tomorrow on imprisoned Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean. Presidential candidate Congressman Duncan Hunter will be among those giving testimony. He's among our guests tonight.
And you won't believe this, but some amnesty and open border activists have begun wearing masks of one of the best-looking people in the national news media.
We will be back to talk with one of their leaders. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We reported a year ago here how heavily armed Mexican drug cartels have crossed our border with Mexico and are operating large marijuana plantations deep inside the United States.
Last week, this country's drug czar said those who grow the marijuana are "terrorists."
We agree. We've been reporting that for some time.
Drug cartels control, in fact, 80 to 90 percent of the marijuana grown in the United States. And more than half of it is grown in the State of California.
Last year, officials destroyed $7 billion worth of marijuana in that state alone. Christine Romans reports now on the offensive to reclaim America's public lands.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): In America's national parks, Mexican drug cartels are brazenly cultivating marijuana. The White House drug czar calls it nothing less than an invasion. America's public lands, he says, under attack by high tech and heavily armed drug cartels.
He says: "We must push back against the invasion of foreign drug trafficking organizations."
The White House estimates Mexican drug cartels are building, cultivating and operating vast marijuana plantations, not just in border states like Arizona, but as far north as Washington and even Hawaii.
But California is ground zero.
MICHAEL VIGIL, FORMER DEA OFFICIAL: We will see an increase in violence as they seek to protect their marijuana cultivations. It means a lot of money to them and they'll do anything to basically protect, you know, their profits.
SYLVESTER: He says they are preempting tougher boarder security by moving their growing operations deep inside the U.S. the situation becoming so dangerous, Forest Service officials earlier this month warned park visitors: "These commercial gardens have been linked to Mexican drug trafficking organizations and armed Mexican nationals."
Mexican drug cartels have operated freely inside the United States, law enforcement experts say, for some time now. Mexico's drug violence has already spread across the border, turning some border towns into war zones. Hundreds of Mexican police have been executed, some beheaded. Reporters Without Borders says 33 Mexican journalists have been murdered. Seven have disappeared.
Last week, the U.S. ambassador to Mexico condemned reported threats against reporters on both sides of the border covering the cartels.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SYLVESTER: Now, this current operation against marijuana plantations, the White House calls, it in the parks, will continue for the next few months. The White House drug czar began warning about this back in 2003 and they're now concerned, Lou, that the problem is spreading.
DOBBS: Well, there's no question that it is. And I want to give the drug czar credit for this. At least they have been putting the money in the hands of local authorities -- local law enforcement authorities trying to go after this.
But why in the world -- and I hope politics and the border politics and immigration politics had nothing to do with this -- why are they only now focusing on it?
SYLVESTER: They have been talking since 2003 about this being a DTO, a Mexican DTO -- drug trafficking organization -- invasion. That's the working they use. And they say they've lost control of parts of our public lands.
DOBBS: They've lost control. It has been out of their control for literally years now. Local law enforcement, state and county sheriffs unable to do much against this. It's time that they took it on.
I detest that expression -- marijuana gardens?
SYLVESTER: That's the lingo. The White House tries -- says plantations, but some of the folks in the Park Service call it marijuana gardens. And it's very dangerous. I mean garden is such a euphemism.
DOBBS: Yes, it's such a euphemism, such a gentle word, such a politically correct word.
I'm sure that the Park Service doesn't mean anything by it.
But I think that they can do better a little than little marijuana gardens.
SYLVESTER: Well, they talk about the heavily armed --
DOBBS: Especially when you're talking about tons of marijuana guarded by drug cartels.
SYLVESTER: -- heavily armed drug cartels.
DOBBS: Unbelievable.
SYLVESTER: They point out that they are heavily armed and they are warning people in the national parks, especially in California, to be careful because you've got folks with heavy, heavy weapons in there.
DOBBS: Yes.
Well, basically what we've got is a situation where the drug cartels are taking over these areas and lands within the national and state public -- parks.
SYLVESTER: Right.
DOBBS: We have a situation where we have travelers advisories issued by the State Department for the northern part of Mexico, in particular.
I mean if somebody in this White House does not wake up to their responsibilities. They have a year-and-a-half.
He wants a legacy?
How about starting to enforce the law and provide law and order, at least on this side?
Felipe Calderon, the president of Mexico, is at least trying on his side.
Christine, thanks.
Christine Romans.
Well, tomorrow, former Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean will finally have a hearing in Washington. Tonight, both men have already spent six months in prison for shooting and wounding an illegal alien -- a Mexican drug smuggler whom the Justice Department gave immunity so that he could testify against those two agents. Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): The National Border Patrol Council says Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean are political scapegoats, serving 11- and 12-year sentences for doing their jobs.
T.J. BONNER, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: There never should have been a prosecution over this because they committed no crime. Now, the drug smuggler, on the other hand, brought in 743 pounds of marijuana into the United States. That is a felony.
SYLVESTER: Compean and Ramos said they shot drug dealer Aldrete Davila in the buttocks after they pointed what they believed was a gun. The man who prosecuted the case, the district attorney from Texas, Johnny Sutton, will testify before Congress about the case for the first time.
In an advanced copy of Sutton's testimony obtained by LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, he says: "I believe, as the jury concluded, that the agents shot at and struck an unarmed fleeing drug smuggler, that they deliberately failed to report the shooting, as they were required to do, and that they destroyed evidence to cover up their actions."
The federal government has not made it easy unraveling what happened.
Watchdog group Judicial Watch is suing three government agencies over unanswered Freedom of Information requests.
CHRIS FARRELL, JUDICIAL WATCH: The government has gone to such extraordinary lengths to -- to stonewall in this. They have dragged their feet and filed court pleadings saying that, you know, they can't get the information. It isn't readily available. They can't find it.
SYLVESTER: The Senate hearing will focus on why did the U.S. government give a known drug dealer immunity?
And why did the case end up in criminal court instead of being handled administratively?
REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Why did this need to be -- these two agents need to be charged with a federal crime for doing their job of trying to protect the American people by trying to apprehend a known drug smuggler?
SYLVESTER: The witness list, in addition to the lead prosecutor, Sutton, and the Border Patrol counsel's T.J. Bonner, includes Border Patrol chief David Aguilar, his deputy chief and a lawyer for Agent Ramos.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SYLVESTER: House members are planning their own hearing later in the month. One hundred representatives have co-sponsored a bill seeking a Congressional pardon for the Agents Ramos and Compean. They've also written to the president seeking a presidential pardon.
Now, a number of Republican lawmakers have said if the president can commute the sentence of White House aide "Scooter" Libby, who did not spend a day behind bars, then he should grant the agents a pardon -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much.
Lisa Sylvester reporting from Washington.
Lisa will be covering that hearing tomorrow.
Tomorrow, one of Ramos and Compean's biggest supporters, Congressman Duncan Hunter, will be testifying before that Senate Judiciary hearing. And so far, 95 Republicans have signed onto or are co-sponsoring Congressman Hunter's legislation calling for a Congressional pardon for Agents Ramos and Compean. Congressman Hunter joins us tonight from Capitol Hill.
Congressman, tomorrow -- let's start straightforwardly.
Is this going to be a hearing that gets to the issues and to the facts of the case, do you think?
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: Yes, Lou, I think it will get to the facts of the case. And I think it will get to the basic injustice of this case.
The interesting thing about this case is even if you take the drug dealer's testimony that at as he was -- after he had run this load of drugs across the country and he'd -- he'd had a -- he'd had a little wrestling match with Compean, or Compean was on the ground, Ramos was running past him, the drug dealer claims he was running away unarmed. Although he was never frisked, so nobody really knows if he was unarmed. That couldn't be established by Johnny Sutton.
But the facts are these guys were given -- for wounding a drug dealer who went right back into business smuggling drugs -- they were given, basically, murder sentences by the United States of America. They were given 11 and 12 years in the federal penitentiary.
DOBBS: Right.
HUNTER: The average murder in America does eight-and-a-half years in custody.
DOBBS: Yes.
HUNTER: So this is -- I've seen a ton of cases under the UCMJ, Lou. You know, I've been on the Armed Services Committee for 26 years. I've never seen an Army or a Marine --
DOBBS: Code of Military Justice, for those who have not -- who are not familiar with your work on the Senate Armed Services Committee or haven't been in the military.
HUNTER: (INAUDIBLE).
I've never seen -- I've never seen a uniformed officer in the services treated as unjustly as Compean and Ramos.
DOBBS: Congressman, let me turn this back to -- to one other thing, too.
The -- one of the issues here is obviously Johnny Sutton's prosecution; the question of Mexican involvement; the question of sealed evidence; a number of the issues.
And as you have said on the House Armed Services Committee, you also represent the district in San Diego.
You're -- there are all sorts of allegations here that the reasons that evidence has been sealed is to protect the prosecutors from charges of undue influence on the part of the government of Mexico.
What is your reaction to all of that?
HUNTER: Well, I think it's clear that the government of Mexico has put pressure on the United States to push back on the Border Patrol when they get tough on these people that are crossing illegally, especially the drug smugglers. I've seen the communications that say we want to have prosecutions when -- when people come in across illegally are treated in the least way in an untoward manner by agents.
So I think there's been pressure on the administration.
But, you know, Lou, this thing cries out for basic fairness. You don't have to find a conspiracy theory to say that this -- this jury and this judge together have delivered this incredibly hard sentence, a murder sentence on two guys for wounding a drug dealer who went right back to moving drugs.
DOBBS: And, you know, you were talking about the average sentence. In point of fact, a couple of interesting elements -- as we have the wrap up here, Congressman.
But the fact is Ramos and Compean were both offered plea bargains with significant reductions in their -- the potential jail term they faced. They're -- they believe themselves innocent and resisted those offers. A lot of questions to be answered. Hopefully those answers will begin tomorrow.
We'll look forward to seeing you at that hearing.
Congressman Duncan Hunter, thanks for being with us.
HUNTER: All right.
Many thanks, Lou. See you.
DOBBS: And please join us here tomorrow for a special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. We'll be coming to you live from Washington, D.C. We'll be reporting on new evidence in this case and the testimony of Congressman Hunter, U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, the man who prosecuted the case, and Border Patrol chiefs, as well.
Up next here, some illegal alien supporters, open borders advocates, are wearing masks of me. The group's leader will join us to talk about why and what they hope to accomplish.
And racism in and sexism in the country -- the role of hip-hop. Professor Michael Eric Dyson has a new book. We'll be talking about those two elements of our society -- two elements we would like to believe don't even exist.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: I'm joined now by the leader of a group of illegal alien open borders activists who donned Lou Dobbs masks in Milwaukee today protesting our reporting on the illegal immigration crisis.
The group's founder is Christine Neumann-Ortiz and she joins us tonight.
Good to have you with us.
CHRISTINE NEUMANN-ORTIZ, FOUNDER, VOCES DE LA FRONTERA: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, what did you hope to accomplish by putting on those Lou Dobbs masks?
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: Well, the theme of it was do I have to look like Lou Dobbs to be heard?
And obviously the answer is yes, because I'm glad to have this opportunity --
DOBBS: You think that's obvious?
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: -- to speak with folks tonight. Yes, I'm on CNN. That's obvious.
DOBBS: Well, you know, you -- we have brought on everyone from La Raza to MALDEF to LULAC to all sorts of organizations.
Let me ask you, Christine, what was the reaction at your rally?
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: I think it's a breath of fresh air because people are very frustrated with the general mainstream media really giving one side of the story. That event actually had closed off a 10-city tour that we did, where we were talking and listening to people throughout Wisconsin on this very issue.
There is a point that we do agree, and I have to commend you for that piece, which is around the issue of fair trade -- you know -- excuse me, free trade agreements such as NAFTA that have hurt workers.
DOBBS: Right.
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: But what isn't heard is how these trade agreements have also devastated jobs in countries like Mexico or Latin America --
DOBBS: Sure.
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: -- led to mass migration.
DOBBS: Yes.
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: And at the same time, you have Congress passing laws that are eliminating legal immigration channels. So it's no accident. That's our broken immigration system. And it's pitting worker against worker.
DOBBS: Yes, I would guess, Christine, that you and I would find we agree on far more than that. I know that you're concerned about the causes of illegal immigration and what's driving it. I think we would probably agree that a government in Mexico, for the past five years, under Vicente Fox, it has been corrupt. It has been incompetent. Before that Salinas, Carlos Salinas. His government was an absolute joke.
We're spending $50 billion -- a $50 billion trade deficit in Mexico and yet half the country remains in abject poverty. And the United States doesn't even have a foreign policy toward Mexico.
And until we resolve those -- you know, I've never said, by the way, that I blame illegal aliens for entering this country. Their motivation is clear. What drives them is clear.
I blame this administration, this government, this Congress for the idiocy of not securing our borders and not enforcing U.S. immigration laws.
Where do we differ?
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: I think we're -- if we agree that people are being driven, because of these trade agreements, to come here to work, the problem is, is that we do have a don't ask, don't tell system of hiring people. And when people try to stand up for their workplace rights, then they're asked. And the only way that the American working people are going to progress in this country is if we stop looking at them as competitors and we give them the legal rights they need to stand up themselves shoulder to shoulder with American workers to improve wages and working conditions in the country.
And it's really that simple.
DOBBS: Yes. I would only say I agree with you about trade agreements. NAFTA has a great deal of a -- a great deal to be fixed, many flaws. But the policies of the government of Mexico and many of the governments of, particularly, Central America have much to do because of the corruption, the incompetence of those governments, some of which make the U.S. government look downright competent, if you can imagine that.
Let's turn to the issue of immigration reform. That appears to now be subsumed by a presidential primary in both parties. It looks as though we're going to see the issue of illegal immigration and border security taken up.
Yes, I've said personally, Christine, that I think it's good a thing, because it's a way to build a consensus and to build a body of public knowledge on what is really happening with illegal immigration in this country.
Do you disagree?
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: I think that we need to -- the Congress needs to step up right now and fix this problem. And they do need to create a path of legalization. They're trying to do it -- for political reasons, they're stepping back.
However, in the absence of this, what we've seen is just increased kind of a culture of local racist vigilantism. We've seen that in the trips that we've taken, how people try to grapple with this and instead of, again, holding our federal government accountable to fix a broken system, you know, we're seeing people -- communities being divided at the local level.
DOBBS: Well, Christine Neumann-Ortiz, we thank you for being here.
We hope you'll come back.
And believe me, a mask is not necessary. As a matter of fact, it's preferable without one. We thank you for sharing your thoughts with us here tonight.
Thank you.
NEUMANN-ORTIZ: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Thanks very much, Lou.
Coming up, the senator and the scandal. He was caught calling an escort service. Now Senator David Vitter tells his story, with his wife standing by his side.
Plus, shootout at the state capital -- a man trying to take over Colorado's state government is gunned down by security.
Also, seen now for the first time on video, American detainees in Iran. Find out where their families say they were forced to confess.
And nuclear earthquake -- a massive jolt sparks a radioactive leak.
All that, Lou, coming up right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM".
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf.
Up next here, hip-hop frequently criticized for promoting sexist and racist stereotypes.
I'll be talking with author and professor, Michael Eric Dyson, about his new book, "Know What I Mean? -- Reflections on Hip Hop."
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Critics say the multi-billion dollar music industry promotes racism and sexism through hip-hop. Author and Professor Michael Eric Dyson, a foremost authority on race and hip-hop culture, joining me now. His new book is entitled "Know What I Mean? -- Reflections on Hip Hop."
Good to have you here.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, AUTHOR, "KNOW WHAT I MEAN?": Always good to be here.
DOBBS: All right, Professor, what's -- what is missing in the dialogue on hip-hop?
There are those who want to crush it --
DYSON: Right.
DOBBS: They want to -- those who want to maintain it as if it's some sort of pristine purity in our culture that needs to be handled delicately.
DYSON: Yes.
Well, neither is true. I think that, obviously, hip-hop is an art form generated about 30 years ago out of the South Bronx that has since spread throughout the world, some would say metastasized across the globe.
But it's an incredibly important lyrical expression of once poor black and brown people. But now, of course, it's fallen onto more difficult times in the hands of people who are billionaires, millionaires, industry elites.
So the industry is juxtaposed to the culture itself. And there's battle in the soul of hip-hop going on right now. And I wanted to weigh in on that battle.
DOBBS: That -- that battle over hip-hop, where do you come down?
DYSON: Well, look, I'm a fan of the "real hip-hop." I'm a fan of people being able to take a beat and issue words over it. You know, and Jay Z says it's only right. He says, "God forgive me for my brash delivery. But I remember vividly what these streets did to me."
When Nas says, "It's only right that I was born to use mikes in the stuff that I write, it's even tougher than dice," I'm a fan of that kind of incredible cerebral poetic intensity.
But I'm not a fan of the kind of imitation of what's going on that's popular and then the people who --
DOBBS: Commercialism.
DYSON: The commercialization of it. Even the --
DOBBS: But the commercialism is driving it all.
DYSON: Well, no doubt about it. But the commercialism has powerful elements of extraordinary power.
DOBBS: And here's where --
DYSON: (INAUDIBLE) --
DOBBS: And here's where we come down. It's all about freedom of expression in this country.
What are we going to --
DYSON: Well --
DOBBS: What are we going to do?
DYSON: -- of course --
DOBBS: What are we going to do?
DYSON: Well, you know what?
I'm with you. I don't want people to tell me --
DOBBS: You know what I mean?
DYSON: (LAUGHTER).
You know what I'm saying?
So I don't want to tell people to tell me what kind of books to write. I don't want to tell hip-hoppers what kind of music to make. And I don't want to just condemn commercialism because, look, Jay Z and Nas, who write the introduction and the afterward to my book, are both hugely commercially successful but they have other elements that are often obscured.
Here's the problem. The so-called conscious rappers, those who are political, those who are insightful about the struggles of common, say they can't get played on the radio. Only the bling, the broad, the booze and that kind of stuff that gets celebrated -- and not that they want to 'dis that, they say, but give us a sense of what's going on and why (INAUDIBLE).
DOBBS: They have -- they don't want to 'dis that. Come on.
DYSON: Well, let me put it --
DOBBS: They want to 'dis that badly.
DYSON: Well, some of them --
DOBBS: They want to -- they want a piece of the action just like everybody else does.
DYSON: Of course they do.
DOBBS: They want that message out.
DYSON: They want it. But I'm saying they don't want to act as if they are somehow more pure than the people over there.
DOBBS: Right.
DYSON: They're just simply saying allow a different viewpoint to come forth.
And in my book, I deal with all sides of the coin.
DOBBS: Right.
All sides of the coin, part -- some of the sides are fairly ugly.
DYSON: Oh, yes.
DOBBS: And -- which is also the nature of art and its expression, I suppose.
DYSON: Sure.
DOBBS: Imus --
DYSON: Yes?
DOBBS: -- talking about a comeback.
How do you feel?
DYSON: Yes, well, you know what?
It's a free country and he's able to make a comeback because he's got the ability to commercially -- think about commercialism -- to make a dent in this industry of radio.
And I think that, look, if he comes back it will be interesting to see is he changed?
Has he made a significant transformation?
Is he willing to say what I did was wrong, but I want to be able to speak freely?
And I think that -- look, I'm a huge defender of free speech. But I'm also a defender of civic responsibility and all of us trying to morally check each other, not from a condescending viewpoint, but from a viewpoint of reciprocal and mutual respect.
DOBBS: Yes, I like civility a whole bunch.
But I sure do like that freedom of expression.
DYSON: Hey, you know what?
Both of them, brother. And when it comes down to it, I'm on the side of free expression.
DOBBS: There you go.
DYSON: (INAUDIBLE).
DOBBS: Michael, thanks for being here.
DYSON: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Michael Eric Dyson.
Thanks.
Still ahead, we'll have more of your thoughts and the results of our poll.
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll -- you're not going to believe this. But our response, heavy voting -- 100 percent of you responding that the United States should begin enforcing country of origin label -- labeling -- on every imported product.
Wow!
That is only the second time in our history that that's happened.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Grady in Texas said: "Hi, Lou. So it cost Roger Mahony $600 million for giving sanctuary to pedophile priests. How much should we charge him for giving sanctuary to illegal aliens?"
Grant in Arizona: "How can you call the Mexican government's policies a failure? They're an overwhelming success. The goal is to export as much of their poverty, health and education responsibilities to our country. They're succeeding."
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
Thanks for being with us tonight.
Join us here tomorrow.
For all of us, thanks for watching.
Good night from New York.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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