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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush Meets With British Prime Minister; China's Food Industry Endangering American Consumers?
Aired July 30, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: state and local lawmakers demanding the enforcement of existing immigration laws. The federal government has utterly failed to fix the illegal immigration crisis. They're trying. We will have a special report.
Also, the Bush administration failing to maintain defenses against dangerous imports from communist China and other nations, but imports of dangerous foods and contaminated food, in fact, soaring. We will have the report.
And a new threat to one of the most fundamental principles of our democracy, our right to vote. Every single e-voting system tested by the state of California turns out to be vulnerable to fraud. We will have that special report, and we will be joined by three of the country's best talk radio show hosts discussing presidential election politics, among other critically and interesting issues, all of that, all the day's news, much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, July 30.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown today declared the U.S.-British alliance remains strong. The president and Brown met at Camp David amid reports that Britain may withdraw more of its troops from Iraq. The Bush administration today announcing a deal to sell more than $60 billion of weaponry to U.S. allies in the Middle East. That deal comes as Iran aggressively builds up its military with the help of countries such as Russia.
Suzanne Malveaux now reports from the White House on today's summit meeting at Camp David -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brown didn't give any indication in terms of how quickly those 5,500 troops British would be pulling out of Iraq.
As we know, both of these leaders have been tested early on in their terms by terrorism, obviously, President Bush the terrorist September 11 attacks, Brown with those terrorist plots that happened the day he took office, just about a month ago.
Now, there's been a lot of speculation that the relationship between Bush and Brown would be a lot cooler than his predecessor Blair, but it was clear that both of these leaders need each other.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice over): President Bush explained he's found the partner he's looking for, in Britain's new prime minister, Gordon Brown.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a glass- half-full man, not a glass-half-empty guy, you know.
MALVEAUX: The glass-half-empty guys would be those who have been critical of the president's Iraq policy. Both leaders took pains, however, to present a united front in the war on terror.
BUSH: I appreciate very much the British commitment in Afghanistan and Iraq.
GORDON BROWN, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It's a partnership founded and driven forward by our shared values.
MALVEAUX: The relationship is bound by their fight against extremists. But Brown described the battle much like Mr. Bush's presidential opponent, John Kerry, in 2004. As a law enforcement issue.
BROWN: Terrorism is not a cause. It is a crime. And it is a crime against humanity.
MALVEAUX: Confronted with Brown's statement, both leaders insisted there was no daylight between them.
BUSH: People who kill innocent men, women and children to achieve political objectives are evil.
BROWN: We are at one in fighting the battle against terrorism.
MALVEAUX: But Mr. Brown also refused to echo Mr. Bush's mantra that Iraq is the central front in the war on terror.
BROWN: Afghanistan is the front line against terrorism.
MALVEAUX: Later he tried to clarify his nuanced position.
BROWN: And I think I described Afghanistan as the first line in the battle against the Taliban. There is no doubt, therefore, that al Qaeda is operating in Iraq.
MALVEAUX: Their two-day Camp David retreat was aimed at jump- starting a friendship.
BUSH: He's a Scotsman, you know, kind of -- not the dour Scotsman that you described him, or the awkward Scotsman. He's actually the humorous Scotsman.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MALVEAUX: But that Scotsman, of course, was also sensitive to being distant with President Bush. He does not want to be portrayed as Mr. Bush's poodle. That was a label, as you know, Lou, that Blair just could not shake -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you -- Suzanne Malveaux from the White House.
The Bush administration today suffered a blow to hopes that the Iraqi parliament would agree to major political and economic reform. Iraqi lawmakers today began their summer recess without passing any reform legislation. The Iraqi parliament will reconvene on the 4th of September, less than two weeks before General David Petraeus is due to present his report to Congress on the progress of the war and political reconciliation.
Insurgents have killed five more of our troops, two over the weekend, three last Thursday; 72 of our troops have been killed so far this month, 3,651 troops killed since the beginning of the war, 26,953 of our troops wounded, 12,115 of them seriously.
The Bush administration today said it plans to sell Saudi Arabia some of the most advanced U.S. weaponry. U.S. officials say those weapons are designed to counter any Iranian aggression in the Persian Gulf. The proposal is part of a huge deal to sell weapons to U.S. allies throughout the Middle East, including Israel, Egypt and Persian Gulf states.
Barbara Starr has our report from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates sit down with Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, they will push him to support the fragile Iraq government and crack down on Saudi fighters joining the Sunni insurgency, and they will have a proposed $20 billion arms sales package of warships, missiles and precision-guided bombs to sweeten the deal.
Congressional critics say, not so fast.
REP. JANE HARMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Saudi Arabia continues to fund the terror movement in the Middle East. They continue to try to get -- wreak havoc inside with the civil war in Iraq.
STARR: The Saudi deal is just part of a broader U.S. effort over the next decade to sell more than $60 billion of arms across the Middle East, establishing a military hedge against Iran. Even Israel, which is getting its own weapons package, sees Iran as a greater threat than its Arab neighbors.
But analysts already question whether it's the right strategy.
RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: The military experts are going to stand up and say, look, this is irrelevant. The Iranian threat is Hamas, Hezbollah militias. It's not the Iranian air force. So, there's a mismatch between what the United States is doing and the Iranian threat to Saudi Arabia.
STARR: The administration is offering Israel $30 billion in weapons to keep a military edge over its neighbors. Egypt is being offered a $13 billion deal. Discussions are also under way with smaller Gulf states, including Kuwait, Bahrain and Oman, for their own arms deals.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Now, Lou, a senior administration official emphasizes that these arms packages are, in his words, all about Iran. But, for its part, there's no indication that Tehran has any fear of any attack from its Arab neighbors any time soon -- Lou.
DOBBS: Barbara, thank you very much -- Barbara Starr from the Pentagon.
Iran today said it's outraged by this proposed arms deal in the Middle East. The Iranian Foreign Ministry said the United States is trying to -- quote -- "create fear in the Middle East." The foreign ministry, without making any reference to Iran's attempts to kill our troops in Iraq, said the region requires stability and security.
Turning to events in this country, Chief Justice John Roberts tonight is in the hospital after a fall at his summer home in Maine.
Jeanne Meserve has our report from Washington -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the latest from the Supreme Court is that the chief justice is still at the hospital, though he has not been admitted, and he is described as conscious and alert. The Supreme Court is at this point giving no details about the chief justice's injuries or the circumstances of his fall, but one person who saw the chief justice shortly afterwards said it happened on a dock on Hupper Island off the coast of Maine, where Roberts has a summer home.
According to the fire chief in the town of St. George, Maine, his department got a call at about 2:00 p.m. that the chief justice had fallen. A private boat brought him into the mainland and at 2:30 he was put in an ambulance and taken to the Penobscot Bay Medical Center in Rockport, Maine.
A Supreme Court spokeswoman describes the ambulance trip to the hospital as precautionary. Roberts at 52 is the youngest Supreme Court justice and although his health never came up during his confirmation hearings, close acquaintances of Roberts tell CNN that in January of 1993 he suffered what the friends describe as an unexplained seizure. They chalked it up to the stress of his nomination to the U.S. Court of Appeals.
According to their account, Roberts took it easy and appeared to recover. Whether those events have any relationship to today's, we simply do not know at this point. White House officials say that the president was informed about the chief justice's fall this afternoon during a meeting in the Oval Office, but at this point they are saying nothing about his condition -- Lou.
DOBBS: The chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court four hours after his fall, and we don't know what the injuries are specifically, nor the extent of them?
MESERVE: That's correct. You have to understand here that there were some transportation obstacles to overcome. He was out on an island. He had to be brought in by a boat. Then it's about an hour trip up to that hospital. And then I'm sure there's an assessment that has to go on.
As we say, he hasn't been admitted at this point, described as conscious and alert, but beyond that, you're right. No details yet. We hope to get more.
DOBBS: Jeanne Meserve reporting from Washington -- thank you, Jeanne.
MESERVE: You bet.
DOBBS: Coming up next, troubling new evidence of the risk to our democracy from e-voting machines. We will have that special report.
More state and local lawmakers have had a bellyful of the federal government's refusal to enforce immigration laws. And new charges tonight the Bush White House is failing to protect American consumers from dangerous imports of all kinds.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A new warning tonight about dangerous imports from communist China.
California health officials say fresh ginger from China may contain a dangerous pesticide. Signs of poisoning include dizziness, nausea and headache. California state health officials say they have not received any reports of illness. The ginger was sold in Albertson's and Save Mart stores in Northern California.
All of this part of what is now rising tension between the United States and communist China over its exports of foods and other products to this country and concerns about American consumer safety.
Communist China, already stung by criticism over its export of contaminated food and unsafe products, is striking back at the United States. The Chinese have now banned products from seven American companies.
And, as Kitty Pilgrim report, dangerous products imported from China continue to arrive by the boatload. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the first six months of this year, the FDA rejected more than 1,000 shipments of food from China, more than from any other country, but catching the dangerous imports is unlikely. There are only 450 inspectors for some 20 million shipments of food coming into the United States.
Yet, U.S. officials continue to believe they can force the Chinese to clean up their food industry with a handshake deal.
WILLIAM HUBBARD, FORMER FDA OFFICIAL: We have two choices. We can fix their system, which I don't think can be done here in the West, or we could beef up the FDA, so that it is screening these products and not letting unsafe foods in. That to me is the correct answer.
PILGRIM: Chinese officials have promised to crack down on the use of chemicals and unsanitary production of food products, but it will take more than a promise. A recent study by U.S. consulting firm A.T. Kearney found, "China's food safety process is broken, and fixing it will require a $100 billion investment in improved food safety standards, warehousing, transportation and training."
Environmentalists and consumer groups say Chinese low-cost production methods are sometimes so primitive, it won't be changed quickly.
WENONAH HAUTER, FOOD AND WATER WATCH: Let's consider seafood. Aquaculture takes place on the edge of the seashore. And if you consider that China has 45 percent of its residents who don't have access to sewage facilities, all of that sewage and waste goes right out into the ocean and into the riverways. And so that's not something that's immediately fixable.
PILGRIM: Last month, the FDA banned five species of fish from China because of a persistent pattern of contamination.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, Dr. David Acheson, FDA food and safety czar, said about the flood of dangerous imports from China: I think we have to accept that their food system is not the same as the United States.
Well, that requires stronger enforcement of food safety here in the United States -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, he couldn't be more right, more straightforward, more sensible. Why in the world is the United States government not protecting American consumers here? You reported 450 inspectors for 20 million shipments of food.
PILGRIM: Shipments of food, yes. The odds are just impossible that they catch anything.
DOBBS: This government is completely out of control. And the idea -- I mean, first of all, I think we have to be clear. If the United States, the people in this country buying those imports from China, know the conditions in China, they know the risks that they are creating for American consumers, it is not the fault of the Chinese, in point of fact.
Although one wishes that they were more responsible, one also knows the reality. And the reality is, we're responsible for our own safety and our own standards.
PILGRIM: And the thought that you could negotiate some kind of improvement is preposterous.
DOBBS: Yes. It's like the idiots trying to get the wand unpegged from the dollar. These fools have not thought about the economic implications of changing that, which would, in effect, mean, because we're so dependent on Chinese imports, that they would raise prices in this country by about 30 percent -- your U.S. Treasury Department and all the geniuses there at work and throughout this administration, I might add.
Kitty, thanks -- Kitty Pilgrim.
It is not only tainted food that comes from communist China, of course. Most recalled consumer products also now originate in China. And the Consumer Product Safety Commission, hit by budget and staff cuts for years, may, in fact, be absolutely helpless to protect American consumers from dangerous imports.
A veteran commissioner said that the cuts have left employees there with simply low morale and no way to make the agency work. The agency has as well a leadership crisis. It has only two of the three commissioners required to make rules.
And, as Christine Romans now reports, the commission has been without a permanent chairman for more than a year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thomas the Tank Engine recalled, the Easy-Bake Oven, recalled, just two of the 15,000 products under the umbrella of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, an agency a veteran commissioner says is at risk.
Thomas Moore was appointed by President Clinton 12 years ago -- quote -- "Staffing cuts and other resource reductions have limited the commission's ability to carry out its mission." He calls morale -- quote -- "very low. Many employees are looking for other jobs because they have no confidence the agency will continue to exist."
RACHEL WEINTRAUB, CONSUMER FEDERATION: Not only are they losing just in terms of numbers, but they're losing staff that has been at the commission almost from the beginning. So, it's an incredible brain drain.
ROMANS: Its staff has been cut almost in half from the early 1980s to about 400 full-time employees today. Its budget is $62 million. At the same time, imports are exploding, $22.3 billion worth of toys sold in this country last year, more than 80 percent of them imported from China, all but two of the toy recalls this year made in China.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: This is a train wreck waiting to happen, when you have more and more imports coming in, tripling of the imports, and at the same time you have severe reductions in the resources for an agency. Why would you do this?
ROMANS: According to Commissioner Moore, "The clear signal from the administration is that consumer protection is just not that important."
But an agency spokeswoman tells CNN -- quote -- "He is entitled to an opinion. It is not an opinion that is shared by the majority of the agency."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: The agency view is that it's more efficient than ever, on track to issue a record number of recalls again this year, despite having fewer people. The agency says it is working closely with Chinese manufacturers on safety standards -- Lou.
DOBBS: Working closely, that's nice bureaucratese, if you will. What does it mean? Does it mean that there are going to be improvements, that safety is going to be assured by either the commission or the Chinese? Of course not.
ROMANS: One thing that is very clear is that in the House and in the Senate there are a lot of people talking about this. They call this the summer of import concerns from China. And so you have a lot of people like the Democratic senator from Minnesota who are very interested in getting a close look at the staffing there and the budget there and the manpower there at the Consumer Product Safety Commission. They're just not going to get let it go at this.
DOBBS: It is absolutely unconscionable. And no one should mistake unconscionable for accidental, that this has happened to that agency. It is perfectly within the motivation, the agenda of corporate America, the multinationals, to proceed without too much constraint or obstacle to their basic goals, without interference, of course, by the government.
So, thank you very much, Christine Romans.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. We were curious: Do you believe the Bush administration should immediately restore the power of the Consumer Product Safety Commission and fully staff it to protect the interests of the American consumer, yes or so?
I suppose the corollary to this question might be: Do you believe that a free market will just solve this magically, as some seem to believe?
Please, let us hear from you on this. We will bring you the results here later in the broadcast.
Up next: local officials trying new tactics to fight illegal immigration in their communities. We will have that special report.
Also, do the Democrats have a dream ticket? One prominent Republican says they do. We will have his dream scenario of what he thinks is their dream scenario.
And California's e-voting machines are a nightmare. They have been put to the test. We will have the grades for you next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A disturbing report tonight on e-voting systems used by millions of voters in California. A new study finds those systems vulnerable to computer hacking.
And, as Casey Wian reports, California state officials are trying to make certain these systems are secure before their voters go to the polls.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): California moved its 2008 presidential primary up four months, hoping the February election will give the state more political clout, but there's new evidence the electronic voting systems used to cast nearly half the state's ballots are vulnerable to fraud. And time is running out to fix the problems.
DEBRA BOWEN, CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE: We have learned a great deal. Instead of guessing about what the technological problems are with these systems, thanks to this review, we now know where many, though not all, of the security flaws and vulnerabilities lie.
WIAN: Teams of hackers employed by the University of California conducted sample elections and found the technology and security of all three systems could be compromised.
For example, testers were able to bypass the locks on Sequoia's e-voting machines by simply unscrewing screws. They also installed devices giving an outside party control of the machine.
Diebold's machines have optical scanners. Testers used undisclosed ordinary objects to disable the scanners, forcing polls to close. Ordinary objects were also used to alter vote totals in Hart InterCivic machines.
Another disturbing conclusion, all the investigators said they needed more time to thoroughly examine the e-voting machines, and may have missed other serious vulnerabilities.
MATT BISHOP, U.C. DAVIS: We basically looked at attacks that could come from everyone, from the average -- from a voter, from a poll worker, from an election official, from a vendor, and so forth. We did not evaluate policies and procedures.
WIAN: Sequoia calls the test "an unrealistic worst-case scenario performed in a laboratory environment by computer security experts with unfettered access to the machines and software over several weeks.
Diebold claims, "When used in conjunction with proper security procedures and protocols, our voting solutions ensure that every vote is safe, secure, and accurate."
And Hart says, "Technology is only one piece of a system of checks and balances in voting security."
The study authors did not account for additional security measures used by the state or counties. They say those efforts could have taken care of many, but not all of the e-voting machine vulnerabilities.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: California Secretary of State Debra Bowen will decide by Friday, six months before Election Day, what to do about the flawed voting machines. She could impose more security requirements or stop counties from using them entirely -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, thanks -- Casey Wian from Los Angeles.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts now.
Del in California wrote in to say: "Hi, Lou. Why is Congress wasting their time on Gonzales" -- the attorney general -- "and doing nothing on the border? Seems like they're more concerned about making the Republicans look bad than they are about securing our nation."
Tom in Missouri said: "Please tell me that we are not trading nuclear technology for mangoes," in the case of nuclear technology for India. "Please tell me I heard wrong."
And Brian in Ontario: "I understand Vice President Cheney is having the battery in his pacemaker replaced. I wonder if he will check to see whether it says, 'Made in China.'"
We will have more of your e-mail here later in the broadcast.
Up next: The federal government says it can't help one state that's trying to enforce U.S. immigration laws. We will have that report.
And more local officials say they have the answer to our illegal immigration crisis. We will have that story.
And how likely is a dream ticket in the presidential election, say Democratic side, say Clinton and Obama? We will be talking about that and a great deal more with three of the country's best radio talk show hosts here next.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The federal government's failure to enforce existing immigration law have left the states with a responsibility and certainly the consequences.
Now the state of Virginia may not receive the help that it has needed to enforce laws.
And, as Lisa Sylvester reports, immigration and customs officials say they can't commit those resources to train officers at all in Virginia state jails.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Virginia Beach, a horrific accident. Authorities say Alfredo Ramos rear-ended two teenage girls stopped at a red light, killing them both. At the time his blood alcohol level was three times the legal limit.
He is an illegal alien, previously charged with drunk driving, but never reported to federal immigration officials.
DAVE ALBO, VIRGINIA STATE DELEGATE: They should have notified ICE and ICE should have come down and got the guy and deported him. Instead, he was allowed to leave and drive again, and then, of course, we have the tragedy.
SYLVESTER: Virginia lawmakers are now considering a proposal that would require jail officials statewide question a suspect about legal status and start deportation proceedings. Virginia is one of 11 states where local police officers have signed up for special training to enforce federal immigration law.
But there's not enough resources to go around. Immigration and Customs Enforcement told Virginia lawmakers it can't guarantee federal money or bed spaces for all the jails in the state to participate in the program.
In a statement ICE said: "Each jurisdiction has its own challenges. We work individually with each law enforcement agency to figure out the best way of tackling area specific problems."
But the problem doesn't stop there.
MICHAEL CUTLER, FORMER INS AGENT: We need more jail space for ICE. We need more judges. We need everything that this would cause. This is a series of dominoes. Each step of the way needs the resources.
SYLVESTER: Because the federal government has not been able to pass immigration reform, more states are stepping in. Last year 18 jurisdictions requested training. This year, the number is 54 and counting.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SYLVESTER: It costs $3,000 per officer to train in the federal program, but when you add the cost of extra bed space for the illegal aliens and linking computers to the federal screening system, the cost could be as much as a million dollars per police department. The federal government has allocated only $5.5 million this year for the program, which is a drop in the bucket -- Lou.
DOBBS: And just to say it out loud, straightforwardly, just as we have with what is happening with the FDA, the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the funding of ICE and the Citizenship and Immigration Services and a host of other agencies, this administration has absolutely refused to fund the enforcement of
U.S. law. It is no accident. It is not simply negligence. It is a committed, committed decision to not enforce this nation's laws.
SYLVESTER: And, Lou, states are willing to step in and fill the void. But in this case, they're finding that even here they don't have the federal funds -- Lou.
DOBBS: Right.
And the American people are facing a straightforward choice that's going to have to be made, I'm afraid, fairly soon.
Lisa, thank you very much.
Lisa Sylvester reporting from Washington.
One New Jersey community is taking a different approach altogether, trying to deal with the impact of illegal immigration.
The mayor of Morristown, New Jersey wants federal trading for his police department.
As Bill Tucker reports, the mayor wants the state government to enforce its labor laws, which would prevent businesses from hiring illegal aliens.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Enforcing the law is not always a popular idea. A rally in Morristown, New Jersey in support of the town's decision to ask for immigration enforcement authority, known as 287G...
JOHN RUCKI, NEW JERSEY CITIZENS FOR IMMIGRATION CONTROL: 287g is doing the job that the federal government will not do.
TUCKER: ...attracted open borders advocates, as well as supporters.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Jobs, racism, deportation -- working people have no nation! TUCKER: Morristown is on the waiting list for approval for 287G. It is part of Mayor Don Cresitello's broader call for current law to simply be enforced.
RUCKI: I would remind our elected officials at all levels -- enforce the law.
TUCKER: He's calling on states to get involved through the enforcement of state employment laws.
MAYOR DON CRESITELLO, MORRISTOWN, NEW JERSEY: They have a legal obligation to make sure that the employers are paying disability insurance. And the only way you can do that is to find out who the employee is and then drag the contractor back to their office, check their payroll and check their books and to see what's going on.
TUCKER: The commissioner of the New Jersey Department of Labor responds by saying immigration enforcement is not his mandate -- the mandate is to protect all workers in the state regardless of their legal status. But he concedes that aggressive audits of employer's' books would sharply curtail the underground economy, where employees work on a cash basis. And he defends the state's record on audits.
Cresitello's idea of using laws to crack down on illegal aliens makes sense to some.
REP. RANDY TERRILL, OKLAHOMA STATE HOUSE: The mayor has a very valid point, and that is, if we would just enforce existing employment laws or more aggressively enforce existing employment laws, that that would go a long way toward curbing the illegal immigration problem.
TUCKER: And in the opinion of the mayor, there would be another benefit.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
TUCKER: He believes that aggressive employment audits would not just curb the hiring of illegal aliens, it would bolster the state's unemployment insurance fund and, Lou, result in higher tax receipts for the state because we wouldn't be paying people off the books.
DOBBS: Yes, not paying people off the books. But in point of fact, most Americans don't realize that the underground economy in this country has reached an estimated $1 trillion -- $1 trillion. And the taxes on that alone would be sufficient to significantly cut into this nation's budget deficit. It's extraordinary.
Mayor Cresitello -- Governor Corzine won't talk to him about this plan?
TUCKER: He hasn't had an opportunity to present it to Corzine yet. I don't know if Corzine is going to be receptive given his statements in the past, because Corzine has denounced the mayor's attempts at bringing in 287G to Morristown.
DOBBS: Yes, there -- Governor Corzine, I'd like to invite him to come over and explain why he thinks it isn't important for his state Department of Labor to protect labor. Labor in this country -- I love that comment by the demonstrators that -- what was it, smash deportation, labor has no nation?
TUCKER: Working people have no nation.
Right.
DOBBS: Well, Americans, fortunately, do have a nation...
TUCKER: Yes, they do.
DOBBS: ...if they can hang on to it. And they should be protecting American workers and the interests of American workers and their families. And that is just, well, in my opinion, both a sorry slogan and a very sorry position for both the State of New Jersey to take and for, of course, the federal government, which refuses to enforce those protections and laws. Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
Tomorrow, a House Committee will be holding hearings on the prosecution of former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean. We will, of course, be in Washington, D.C. for that hearing. And we ask you to join us for tomorrow evening's special edition of this broadcast. We'll be live from Washington, D.C. again, tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.
Today, President Bush signed a law to help ease the massive backlog of passport applications. Foreign service retirees will be hired on a temporary basis to help process the millions of applications. An estimated half a million people reporting waiting three months or more for their passports.
The average wait for a passport, we are told, is now -- the ideal is six weeks. Millions of others say they haven't received passports in time for their summer travel.
We will have, of course, complete reports when the federal government does act to bring that down to a reasonable amount of time. And we'll cover the journey with the federal government in between those two events.
Coming up next, Fred Thompson -- he isn't in the race officially, but there's bad news about his campaign already. We'll have that report.
And are presidential candidates, Senators Clinton and Obama, a dream team?
So says one prominent Republican.
That story and more next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Newt Gingrich has a dream team. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich Sunday predicting Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama would lead the Democratic presidential ticket in 2008.
Gingrich's comments come at a time when there's been feuding between the two Democratic frontrunners. Last week, Senator Obama referred to Senator Clinton as "Bush-Cheney Lite."
Gingrich himself, considering a run for the White House. He's indicated he would make his intentions known sometime in the fall.
And a Clinton-Obama ticket would be a dream team when it comes to fundraising. Democrats raised $80 million from April to June. The 10 Republicans, only $50 million. The fundraising continues to be a big problem for Republicans.
It could also be a problem for a candidate who's not officially entered the race, as our Bill Schneider reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Fred Thompson's virtual campaign has been hitting some real bumps. He keeps delaying his official announcement, now expected in September. Some staff members have quit.
"The Politico" is reporting that Thompson raised a little over $3 million in June, a figure that will disappoint his supporters.
Could Thompson be losing momentum before he even gets into the race?
Maybe it's not him. Maybe it's us.
DAVE WINSTON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: We're paying so much more attention to these campaigns so much earlier, there's going to be -- we may just never have really followed this in prior years.
SCHNEIDER: Thompson is not the only candidate who's hit bumps. So has John McCain. But McCain has been falling in the polls, while Thompson is rising.
Where is Thompson's support coming from?
Well, he's a celebrity with high name recognition. But he also fills a need. A lot of Republicans are looking for a conservative who is also a winner.
Thompson supporters are heavily Southern and male and conservative. Like a good virtual candidate, Thompson has been spending a lot of time blogging. In May, he had this to say about immigration reform: "No matter how much lipstick Washington tries to slap onto this legislative pig, it's not going to win any beauty contests."
Many Republicans see the virtual candidate as a winner. But sooner or later, he's going to have to become a real candidate.
(on camera): People will be watching closely to see how much money Thompson raises at his first Washington fundraiser this week, where he has to raise real dollars, not virtual dollars.
Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
DOBBS: Well, the former senator is raising his poll ratings. In the most recent national polls, Fred Thompson is still on the rise, running third now, 16 percent of the voters. And in the latest South Carolina polling, he's at roughly the same level -- 17 percent and in third place, and hasn't announced his intentions at all.
A reminder now to vote in our poll.
Do you believe the Bush administration should immediately restore the power of the Consumer Product Safety Commission and fully staff it in order to protect the interests of the American consumer?
Yes or no?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com.
Results upcoming.
And up next, what are John McCain's chances of winning the Republican presidential nomination?
We'll tell you what the former House Speaker says about that.
And three of the best radio talk show hosts in the country join me.
With all of that and more, stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We've just received this word.
The Associated Press tonight saying that the Federal Bureau of Investigation and agents from the Internal Revenue Service are searching the home of Senator Ted Stevens in Girdwood, Alaska.
We'll have more details as they come in.
Again, the Associated Press reporting tonight the FBI and agents from the Internal Revenue Service are now searching the home of Senator Ted Stevens in Girdwood, Alaska.
We'll have details here and a fuller explanation as the details are available.
Joining me, three of the best radio talk show hosts in the country.
In Denver from KHOW, Peter Boyles.
In Washington, Joe Madison, WOL and X.M. Radio.
JOE MADISON, WOL RADIO IN WASHINGTON, D.C.: Thank you.
DOBBS: And joining me here in New York, Mark Simone of just old WABC Radio.
Good to have you.
MARK SIMONE, WABC RADIO: Just the number one talk station in America.
DOBBS: Just -- just the number one.
Good to have you here.
Mark, let's start with the idea that the British might be, based on these conversations between Gordon Brown and President Bush, pulling some of their troops out of Iraq.
SIMONE: Remember, these are two politicians talking to each other. Don't believe a word of anything anybody says here.
DOBBS: What did you think of President Bush standing there on the lawn and saying, you know, he seems like a half full glass guy?
I mean how did that strike you?
SIMONE: He's not exactly the greatest reader of people in that first meeting. Remember, what did he say about Putin when he first met him?
I looked into his eyes and I saw the soul of that man.
DOBBS: What do you think, Peter?
PETER BOYLES, KHOW IN DENVER: Well, I saw the best bumper sticker in the world. It said: "Photo Failed -- George Bush Has the Ring."
(LAUGHTER)
BOYLES: I don't know what to do with any of this anymore, Lou. I just -- I'm like everybody else, I watch it and go, yes, right.
DOBBS: Joe, have we really reached that point where we're just -- in this country right now, our expectations have been compressed to such a low level that there is just now numb acceptance?
MADISON: Yes, of the administration and of Congress. The answer to that is absolutely yes. And I would think even with the candidates, because there's just so many non-issues. I mean Hillary Clinton's cleavage?
I mean...
(LAUGHTER)
MADISON: I mean give me a...
DOBBS: That is about as dumb as it gets.
MADISON: Dumb as it can -- and you know what?
And we better be careful -- thank god for talk radio. At least we can editorialize about this and sort of set the record straight and get everybody back online.
SIMONE: Yes, you know, we have that with lots of people. Remember when Dan Rather started wearing a sweater on the news?
DOBBS: Oh, yes. That was a (INAUDIBLE)...
SIMONE: Endless articles about that.
DOBBS: Well, and Katie Couric. You know, we were treated (ph). But that's -- that's a little less significant to me than a presidential candidate.
Who in the world cares whether Hillary Clinton is wearing a stylish or a fashionable dress?
I know it's fine. But we're watching news organizations, as well as talk radio, talk broadcast.
SIMONE: Well, but you...
MADISON: Well...
SIMONE: ...when Gore made a sudden change in his wardrobe in 2000...
MADISON: ...it's...
SIMONE: ...there were a lot of articles about that, because you wondered why the consultant or the handler came up with that.
MADISON: Well, as I said this morning, it's a good thing Aretha Franklin isn't running for president.
(LAUGHTER)
BOYLES: Or how about John Edwards' hair?
DOBBS: We have just received -- I've got to interrupt this.
We have just received this word.
Jeanne Meserve, our reporter in Washington, reporting on the fall of by the U.S. -- the chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, John Roberts, at about 2:00 p.m. This afternoon, falling, apparently, on his dock at his vacation home in Maine -- has been reporting -- A.P. Has been reporting that he has, in fact, had a seizure.
Now, that is all we know of some sort. And we will have those details as soon as they are available.
And I would like to ask right now my producers and our bureau in Washington, D.C. to get us those details within as few minutes as possible and to bring us the very latest.
We will be going to Washington for that.
Again, the chief justice in the hospital as a result of that fall, which apparently was caused by some sort of unexplained, at this point, seizure.
I want to turn back to Joe Madison, if I may. Joe, the idea that in this country right now there is a rising tension over the over the -- over jobs, over wages as a result of illegal immigration, what is your reaction?
MADISON: Well, one of the concerns I've had this is this smoldering situation in urban America. You know, ever since, I guess, the last 30 years, we've seen a diminish in youth job opportunities. The government -- look, I had a summer job thanks to the government. And there are many CEOs that got their first job.
And now what we find is that 80 percent of young African- Americans, mostly in urban areas -- and also white Americans in rural areas -- teenagers are not working. They're idle this summer.
And then we wonder why there's a rise in crime. We wonder why we're seeing the situation. And many of these kids are being undercut by, again, people who, as you report, who are paying off the books, like in New Jersey. And you should be employing teenagers.
DOBBS: And do we have -- and then we have these idiotic slogans like, what was the slogan?
Workers have no nation, stop deportation.
MADISON: Yes.
DOBBS: American workers, Peter, they have no nation. They have no national government, apparently.
BOYLES: No.
DOBBS: We're willing to work in their interests.
MADISON: Well -- well, tell that to the Mexican government...
SIMONE: The fight...
MADISON: ...that stops them south of their border.
(LAUGHTER) SIMONE: No, the fight -- the fight is fairly simple. In the classic model of labor, the illegal is a scab. The illegal will come into this country and do the job for less.
DOBBS: Right.
SIMONE: now, I tell people today's truck driver is the dry waller of three years from now. We are losing our jobs. We are importing cheap labor and exporting the means of production.
The stock market is running at records right now, but it's reflective of the profits of the multinational corporations.
Hang onto your hats. If a young kid in the inner city can't get a job, it's just a question of time until that works its way up.
MADISON: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
We are exporting...
SIMONE: It's a -- it's a recipe for disaster.
DOBBS: Oh...
MADISON: We are exporting jobs, drugs and let me tell you...
SIMONE: It's a tsunami...
MADISON: It's a...
SIMONE: It's a tsunami of illegals coming in...
MADISON: Yes.
SIMONE: ...and they work as scabs. They work at half the price.
DOBBS: Well, now, that's interesting, because I want to ask you this. Mark Simone, the "Los Angeles Times," a week ago, reporting on outsourcing. I wrote -- I'm pleased to tell you -- a best-selling book on that, what three years ago. And they have noticed and reported -- and I commend the "Los Angeles Times," I really do -- that she has been raising money with the Indian-American community, supporting Indian-owned companies in this country that are, by the way, the top recipients of H1V visas and approvals for those visas and outsourcing those jobs. And she is now saying she is defending the working middle class.
SIMONE: Well, it's scandalous. You know, forget Whitewater or Gonzalesgate or all these -- these -- the biggest scandal of all are both parties abandoning their constituents here.
You know, the Republicans talk about They talk about law and order and there -- this is the most lawless thing they've ever done. Democrats talk about going after the rich tax wise, tax cuts for the middle class. This is the biggest drain, financially, on the middle class and the biggest tax break we've ever given the rich -- illegal aliens and cheap workers.
DOBBS: Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Peter, you get the last word.
BOYLES: Yes, well, thanks, Lou.
I mean it is -- it is a classic recipe for disaster. Underneath, we are -- we're outsourcing and then we're insourcing -- insourcing cheap labor, outsourcing the means of production. As we sit here -- and we're all middle-aged guys -- I don't know what it's going to be 10, 15 years from now for guys sitting in these chairs.
DOBBS: Well, you know, I don't care too much, to be honest with you, about the guys sitting in our chairs. We've all had pretty good breaks.
BOYLES: Yes.
DOBBS: I care about the folks who are sitting there working.
BOYLES: Well, that's what I mean.
DOBBS: Trying to -- yes.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: And our grandchildren.
SIMONE: This outsourcing...
BOYLES: This is crazy.
MADISON: And our grandchildren.
SIMONE: This is...
DOBBS: But, you know, you have just said it. I mean the American people who have bought into this nonsense -- the liberal, conservative, Republican and Democrat, aren't paying attention, because this bird with two little wings...
SIMONE: Yes, I mean outsourcing...
DOBBS: (INAUDIBLE).
SIMONE: Outsourcing was horrible. This is under the table sourcing.
MADISON: Yes. Yes.
DOBBS: Absolutely. With all... MADISON: And it's the...
DOBBS: ...(INAUDIBLE).
SIMONE: And the young people of this generation looking for jobs in the future, Lou.
MADISON: And I will say, there will not be an Obama-Clinton ticket. I'm going to go on record. I wouldn't believe Gingrich if he even knew the truth.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Well, at least you'd have a news break.
MADISON: Yes.
DOBBS: Joe Madison, thank you very much.
MADISON: It's not going to happen.
DOBBS: Peter Boyles, thank you very much.
BOYLES: Thank you, sir.
MADISON: Thank you.
SIMONE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: And thank you very much.
Coming up next, the results of your poll, more of your thoughts.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We've been reporting to you the -- that the U.S. chief justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts, had fallen on a dock near his vacation home in Maine. He was then taken to the hospital.
We have now received word that, as we have just reported, that he has suffered a seizure of some sort.
Jeanne Meserve now has details for us from Washington, D.C. -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Lou, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Supreme Court says that the chief justice did have a seizure. The seizure resulted on a fall on a dock at his summer home in Maine. And that resulted in some minor injuries.
He was taken to a hospital in Rockport, Maine, the Penobscot Bay Medical Center. He is described as being conscious and alert, but is being kept there for more assessment. He will be kept there overnight. As we've mentioned in previous reporting, back in January of 1993, friends say he had an unexplained seizure. He took it easy, appeared to recover. And as far as we know, there had been no sort of recurrence until these events today -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jeanne, it took some time for the Supreme Court to let us know what was happening.
Do we know -- are they being clear about whether or not he is going to be in observation or be undergoing tests?
Are we clear, at this point, based on the communication from the Supreme Court, that the chief justice is, in fact, healthy, save a few scraps and scrapes?
MESERVE: Well, I think when it comes to a seizure, probably it will take some time to assess exactly what the impact of that is and what the causes of that may be.
We're waiting for a statement from the Supreme Court now.
We hope that will have some additional detail.
DOBBS: And, obviously, the question is does anyone -- has anyone let the media know what the details were of the seizure that the Supreme Court justice, chief justice, suffered some 14 years ago?
MESERVE: In 1993, no. It was never brought up in his confirmation hearings. Our Supreme Court producer, Bill Mears, heard about it by talking to friends of the chief justice, who described it to him. But it has not been widely reported and certainly was not brought up during his confirmation.
DOBBS: And Chief Justice Roberts is 52.
He is the youngest member of the nine member Supreme Court.
Again, in Rockport, Maine, the chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court is now hospitalized. We are told that he will be there overnight and we're going to be covering this story, obviously, here on CNN throughout the evening.
And Jeanne Meserve, I am told, has just received additional details -- Jeanne.
MESERVE: Yes, we have just gotten a statement from Kathleen Arberg, a spokesperson for the court. She says he experienced minor scrapes in the fall. He has fully recovered from the incident. Doctors describe it as "a benign ideopathic seizure."
That's what the Supreme Court is telling us right now -- Lou.
DOBBS: I wish I were smart enough or well read enough to tell you what that means -- ideopathic.
But let's hope that the chief justice is in improving health and will be out of the hospital quickly.
Jeanne Meserve bringing us the latest from Washington.
Thank you, Jeanne.
MESERVE: You're welcome.
DOBBS: And please join us here tomorrow.
For tonight, we thank you for being with us.
Thanks for watching.
Good night from New York.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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