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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Alaska Senator Ted Stevens Under Investigation; Congress Targets Dangerous Food Imports
Aired July 31, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: scathing new criticism of prosecutors in the case of two former Border Patrol agents sent to prison on the testimony of an illegal alien drug smuggler given immunity by the U.S. Justice Department. We will have complete coverage of an explosive hearing today on Capitol Hill. Two of the lawmakers at that hearing join us, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, Congressman Walter Jones.
And rising anger in Congress over our food safety system and our government's failure to protect American consumers from dangerous food imports. We will have that report.
And communist China celebrating its rise in military power, Beijing accelerating its biggest military buildup in generations.
That special report on China's rising threat and challenge to American interests, all of that, all the day's news and much more straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Tuesday, July 31.
Live from Washington, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
The monthly U.S. death toll in Iraq has fallen to the lowest level in eight months; 73 of our troops were killed in July, but military commanders say it is far too early to determine whether the surge strategy is a success.
In his confirmation hearings on Capitol Hill, the nominee to lead the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Michael Mullen, warned that military progress in Iraq will make no difference if there is no political reconciliation.
Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon. Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, Admiral Mullen is walking a delicate line here. He told Congress today that the military does need to plan for an eventual withdrawal from Iraq, but not just yet.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): The man nominated to be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff made clear he doesn't think more U.S. troops are the answer to Iraq's problems. Admiral Michael Mullen said political progress by the Iraqis is a must.
ADMIRAL MICHAEL MULLEN, JOINTS CHIEFS CHAIRMAN NOMINEE: Barring that, no amount of troops in no amount of time will make much of a difference.
STARR: It was exactly what the senators wanted to hear.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: As you put it, no amount of troops can solve their political problems except for them.
MULLEN: Over time, no, sir. I don't believe they can.
STARR: But Iraqi lawmakers adjourned for a recess without progress on de-Baathification, oil revenue sharing and constitutional reform. Admiral Mullen did not paint a rosy picture.
MULLEN: I still maintain that if we aren't making progress in that realm, the prospects for movement in a positive direction are not very good.
STARR: On the security side, there is some improvement. In July, slightly more than 70 U.S. troops died, the lowest level this year.
Commanders are unlikely to keep the surge in place beyond next spring. They don't have the troops to keep it going. Mullen also cautioned some number of troops could remain in Iraq for years to come, but only if the Iraqis step up to the political plate.
But it was General James Cartwright, nominated as vice chairman, who wondered, what will the U.S. troops think years from now?
GENERAL JAMES E. CARTWRIGHT, JOINT CHIEFS VICE CHAIRMAN NOMINEE: there comes a point at which they're going to look at that and say "How much longer and for what price?" if progress isn't seen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Lou, Admiral Mullen stuck to his bottom line throughout the three-hour hearing. Without political progress in Iraq, he's not ready to say that the U.S. is winning the war -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Barbara.
General Cartwright putting it straightforwardly and succinctly in terms of the view of our troops. Thank you very much from the Pentagon, Barbara Starr.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates today appealed to Arab nations for help in Iraq. Secretary Rice and Secretary Gates meeting Arab government ministers in the Egyptian city of Sharm el-Sheikh. The U.S. officials called on Arab countries to use their influence to help end the insurgency and sectarian violence in Iraq.
Rice and Gates also discussing an American proposal to sell tens of billions of dollars of weaponry to Arab nations.
Insurgents in Iraq have killed another of our troops. A Marine was killed in Al Anbar Province west of Baghdad. As we reported, 73 of our troops have now been killed this month, the lowest monthly total in eight months; 3,652 of our troops have been killed since the beginning of the war, 27,104 of our troops wounded, 12,180 of them seriously.
Turning now to politics in the United States, Vice President Dick Cheney today strongly defended Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, said Democrats want a perjury investigation of Gonzales to determine whether he lied to Congress.
But Vice President Cheney told our Larry King that he has the highest respect for the attorney general.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Alberto Gonzales -- do you stand by him?
RICHARD B. CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do. Al is a good man, a good friend, in a difficult assignment.
KING: Are you troubled by what appears to have happened with -- the appearance of him not telling the truth?
CHENEY: Well, I don't want to get into the specifics with respect to his testimony and the questions that were asked. I know Al on a personal and professional basis, and I hold him in high regard.
KING: You're going to stand by him?
CHENEY: Yes, sir.
KING: No doubt about that?
CHENEY: Correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: You can see Larry King's entire interview with the vice president at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
Senator Ted Stevens today appealed to fellow lawmakers to stand by him as he faces a federal investigation into possible corruption. Officials are examining whether Senator Stevens had improper ties with an oil services company. FBI and IRS agents yesterday searched the house owned by Senator Stevens near Anchorage, Alaska.
Dana Bash has our report from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): FBI and IRS investigators spent hours at Senator Stevens' Alaska home, taking video and photographs, meticulously cataloging the house and its fixtures. A local paper reports an agent carried out a garbage bag of unidentified materials to a white truck.
Federal officials are tight-lipped about their investigation but it stems from a corruption probe involving Bill Allen, an Alaska oil executive and financial contributor to Stevens. Allen pleaded guilty to bribing state officials.
The feds are apparently trying to find out whether Allen's company improperly helped pay for a major renovation of Steven's Alaska home. On Capitol Hill, Stevens actively avoided reporters camped outside his office and in the hallways. CNN found him in a back stairway of the Capitol, where he angrily refused to answer questions.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. TED STEVENS (R), ALASKA: I put out a statement and I'm not saying anything to anybody beyond that statement.
BASH: Can you say, sir, why the federal agents went to your house or what they took?
STEVENS: Can you understand English? That's the only statement I'm going to make.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BASH: In the statement Stevens is referring to, he urged Alaskans not to jump to conclusions, but refused to comment until the investigation is complete.
Last month, Stevens did acknowledge that federal investigators asked him to preserve documents, and just two weeks ago, he gave this defense to Alaska public radio about his home renovation.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
STEVENS: They tell me not to answer any questions. As a practical matter, I will tell you we paid every bill that was given to us. Every bill that was presented to us has been paid, personally with our own money, and that's all there is to it.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: So far, no government officials have indicated that this investigation will lead to charges against Senator Stevens. And the influential Republican behind closed doors today, Wolf -- excuse me, Lou -- appealed to his GOP colleagues, essentially saying to him -- quote -- all of them -- quote -- "Stay with me." That is to Republican senators behind closed doors in the Capitol today -- Lou. DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much -- Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
As federal agents investigated Senator Stevens, the House of Representatives today passed sweeping legislation trying to tighten ethics and lobbying rules. The legislation would require greater disclosure on the part of lawmakers about their efforts to fund pet projects in their home districts. It would also require lawmakers to give more details of the assistance they received from lobbyists. The legislation now goes to the Senate.
Chief Justice John Roberts today left the hospital after treatment for a seizure and injuries from a fall at his vacation home in Maine. The chief justice did not say anything to reporters about his condition, but doctors say test results show there is no cause for concern. The Supreme Court said the seizure was benign and had no identifiable cause.
Roberts suffered a similar seizure back in 1993. Doctors were then unable to determine a cause for that seizure, referred to as idiopathic seizure.
Coming up here next: The U.S. prosecutor who prosecuted former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean faces a barrage of new criticism, new questions on Capitol Hill today. We will have that for you.
Also, communist China showing off its military might in a new warning to the United States and other nations.
And members of Congress taking action to force the federal government to protect American consumers from dangerous food imports, most of them at least.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A congressional committee today opened its long-awaited investigation into the outrageous miscarriage of justice in the case of two former Border Patrol agents prosecuted on the testimony of a drug dealer -- lawmakers demanding the release of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, both men now serving lengthy prison sentences for shooting and wounding an illegal alien Mexican drug smuggler given immunity by the Justice Department to testify against those former agents.
The House investigation today following a Senate Judiciary Committee investigation that concluded two weeks ago which concluded that accused U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton committed gross and prosecutorial misconduct in this case.
And, as Bill Tucker now reports, Sutton refused to testify today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The hearing began with a passionate declaration by the committee chairman.
REP. BILL DELAHUNT (D), MASSACHUSETTS: And I join with others today who will call on President Bush to commute the sentences of these two men.
TUCKER: He denounced the penalties of 11 and 12 years for Ramos and Compean, Border Patrol agents, with unblemished records prior to this incident. Committee members came down hard on the Justice Department for not allowing Sutton, the prosecutor, to testify, yet allowing him to continue to speak freely to the media about the case.
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: U.S. Attorney General Johnny Sutton has been morphed into Mike Nifong. Battling not to admit mistakes, he's been all over the country, stating his case to the media. Significantly, however, as the chairman noted, he has refused to appear here today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have never seen or heard of a case where a prosecutor goes on a nationwide P.R. campaign, at taxpayer expense, I suppose, to justify the prosecution of a particular matter. And then that prosecutor is not here today, nor is the real trial lawyer, Debra Kanof not here to answer questions about whether the Mexican government was involved.
TUCKER: The Department of Homeland Security also refused to appear to explain their contact with the drug smuggler, who was given immunity to testify against the agents. That left only witnesses from the State Department to appear, and they admitted they could only tell the committee about minimal communications between the State Department and the Mexican government.
ROHRABACHER: We now are discovering this incredible freedom to operate without paperwork and without reporting requirements at a whole 'another level, which is way above and perhaps much more demanding and much more needed for accountability.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't answer your question specifically.
TUCKER: Community Chairman Bill Delahunt made it clear, this would not be the last hearing on the matter of Ramos and Compean.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Delahunt announced that the House Judiciary Committee will hold hearings focused on the lack of cooperation by Justice. And he also said that he would prevail on the Homeland Security Committee as well to hold hearings.
And, Lou, we can't emphasize this enough, the statement from the State Department witnesses today who under duress and under strong questioning from committee members said they can testify only about their communications with the Mexican government, not about DHS, and they pointed out that DHS is the agency who initially initiated contact with the Mexican government.
DOBBS: And, Importantly, as Congressman Rohrabacher, who, very impassioned today, pointed out that Mr. Skinner, the inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security, had outright lied to these congressmen in an official hearing, accusing these agents of things that they were not even remotely guilty of, nor in fact ever charged with.
It is a brutal, disgusting disgrace of prosecution and punishment of two men serving their nation at a time when we need enforcement of our laws at the border and within.
Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
We will be talking with those congressmen tonight.
There's rising anger among the supporters of Ramos and Compean. A coalition of activists is now pressuring lawmakers to fight for their pardon and for the immediate release of the former Border Patrol agents.
Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congressman Dreier...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... don't betray the USA.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Border security activists took to the streets, then headed inside the Southern California Office of Congressman David Dreier. They are angry Dreier has not joined 97 fellow Republicans and five Democrats who are co- sponsoring Congressman Duncan Hunter's bill to pardon imprisoned Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's unconstitutional to have two honorable, honest American border agents in prison on trumped-up charges.
WIAN: Dreier's field representative met with the group and pointed out that the congressman wrote a letter in April asking President Bush to review the case. Activists were not satisfied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grow a spine and just step up there.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I disagree with you about beating around the bush. I mean, we did this. And this has already been sent to the White House.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How hard is it to sign a signature? How hard is it? Is it tough?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I can do is promise you that he will get your message and we will do everything we can to look at this case.
WIAN: In a statement, Dreier says, "While I may have constitutional concerns about the Hunter bill, that does not in any way diminish my commitment to seeking justice for agents Ramos and Compean."
The belief that a congressional pardon would be unconstitutional is one reason several leading supporters of border security and the agents have not endorsed Hunter's legislation. They include James Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, Lamar Smith of Texas, and California's Brian Bilbray.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The day that Ramos and Compean were sent to prison, I brought our lawyers in and I said what are the chances of this thing being ruled constitutional? They looked at it. They said it's up in the air. It's about 50/50. Well, if these guys are already in prison, what's the downside to trying to get them out of there?
WIAN: Hunter says he needs about 50 more co-sponsors to bring the pardon bill to a floor vote.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: In the meantime, Congressman Hunter is circulating a letter among his fellow lawmakers demanding that President Bush either pardon the agent or commute their sentences. That letter has been signed by Congressman Dreier -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Casey Wian.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question is: Should the sentences of former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean be commuted and an investigation launched into their prosecution? Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We will have those results here later in the broadcast.
Congressman Brian Bilbray is simply furious with Mexico's latest efforts to meddle in U.S. government policy. Yesterday, Mexico's government called upon the United States to change its plans to build that border fence to stem the flow of Mexican illegal aliens and others across our southern border.
The Mexican government says that fence is a threat to the environment. The government of Mexico said -- quote -- "The eventual construction of this barrier would place at risk the various ecosystems that we share" -- end quote.
Today, Congressman Bilbray defended the U.S. right to secure its own borders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: They are trying to use the environmental card as a way of blocking us from stopping the smuggling that is going on across the border, and the same activity as what is financing the cartels. So, I think Mexico has got to understand that we are their friends, and that they should helping us control the border, rather than collaborating and conspiring to block us from being able to stop the illegal traffic going back and forth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Congressman Brian Bilbray.
Construction on the border fence, by the way, is expected to begin again this fall. Some 14 miles of just over 750 miles of fence have been started.
Coming up here next, we will have more on today's explosive hearing into the prosecution of Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean.
Also ahead here tonight, a show of force for the communist Chinese military and their rising challenge to U.S. interests in Asia.
Congress wants the FDA to overhaul its food safety operations, which are all but simply derelict. Will any changes make your food any safer? Do you trust this government? We will find out.
We continue in one moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Communist China, in a remarkable distortion of the truth, this week said its military has nothing to hide. That's not, of course, the same thing as saying that they have hidden nothing. But the reality, of course, is very different. Beijing is refusing to disclose the true scale of its military buildup and its ever-expanding military budget.
As Christine Romans now reports, China is challenging U.S. military superiority in the Pacific region.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chinese President Hu Jintao shakes hands with army veterans, the 80th birthday of the 2.3-million-strong People's Liberation Army, complete with weapons testing, dramatic battlefield reenactments, and a pledge of loyalty to the communist leadership.
MAJOR GENERAL LIU, PEOPLE'S LIBERATION ARMY (through translator): We will create a brighter future under the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party.
ROMANS: It's a rare look into the People's Liberation Army, as China opens a military camp to reporters in a bid to show its arms forces are open and transparent. But questions grow about the intent of that powerful army amid a rapid and largely secret military modernization.
In the past year, China has blinded a U.S. reconnaissance satellite with a ground-based laser. It destroyed one of its own with an anti-satellite missile. And a China submarine shadowed the USS Kitty Hawk carrier group, for a time undetected.
The official Washington view is that China is a partner. The U.S. Navy has said publicly China is building its capabilities, but is not a threat.
JOHN TKACIK, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: There's no question that the Pentagon sees China as a very formidable foe and that there is a threat that they must plan against. The idea that we do not know their intentions, I think, is basically diplomatic talk.
ROMANS: Meanwhile China develops ever more sophisticated weaponry, and U.S. diplomacy with China, at least publicly, centers on trade, the American treasury secretary again in China pressing the government for economic reform, even as America's huge and growing trade deficit, many say, helps fuel China's military grown.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Many say China's anti-satellite missiles, its new fighter jets and ambitions for a blue water Navy are clear signals that Beijing project power in Asia and challenge the United States in the Pacific -- Lou.
DOBBS: It's a fascinating statement by the Chinese general saying that the Chinese military will lead China forward under the communist the -- the Chinese Communist Party.
Can you think of all of the times people have asked you why on this broadcast we refer to the government of China as communist?
ROMANS: Two-point-three-million-strong army pledging its loyalty to the communist regime -- Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Christine Romans from New York, thank you.
The Bush administration and Congress heading for a showdown tonight over U.S.-China trade. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, now in China, now today by about possible protectionist retaliation if Congress were to pass laws that punish China for keeping its currency undervalued.
But lawmakers say that China's currency policy is responsible for the loss of millions of manufacturing jobs in this country and the huge trade deficit with China.
In another matter, Treasury Secretary Paulson told Congress the federal government would be broke by October unless our government can borrow just a little more money.
The debt ceiling now stands at almost $9 trillion. The Bush administration defends the increased borrowing as essential for paying for the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Democrats blame the Bush administration's fiscal mismanagement.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Alan in Wisconsin: "Dear Lou, with the Iraqi parliament planning a long summer recess without making any progress on important issues, it looks like the U.S. has succeeded in getting Iraq to adopt an 'American-style' democracy." Jim in Texas: "But, Lou, without the cheap tainted food from China, what will our growing population of poor people eat? I'm an unemployed programmer, and the cost of food is getting to be a real problem."
And Jeff in Tennessee: "I agree with keeping the families of illegal aliens together. Send the whole family back together."
We will have more of your e-mail later in this broadcast.
Up next: rising anger on Capitol Hill over the government's failure to ensure the safety of our food.
And Congressman Dana Rohrabacher and Congressman Walter Jones today joining others demanding justice for imprisoned former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean. They are among my guests here tonight.
And new concerns the Bush administration is hell-bent on creating a Northern American union among the United States, Canada, and Mexico, without the consent of the American people, the Congress, or, in point of fact, even their knowledge.
Stay with us. We will have that report when we return in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush is threatening to veto the new House agricultural funding bill. That bill includes measures that would protect our nation's food supply.
As Lisa Sylvester reports, the measures call for a complete overhaul of the FDA's food safety operations.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Many of the imported foods that end up on your plate, including produce, grains and seafood, are never inspected.
Critics say recent food recalls underscore a broken system.
CAROLINE SMITH DEWAAL, CENTER FOR SCIENCE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST: FDA inspects about 1 percent of incoming product. And that's not nearly enough to really identify a lot of the problems.
SYLVESTER: Congressional lawmakers want to hold the FDA accountable. The agriculture spending bill, scheduled for a vote this week, would require the agency establish new benchmarks for food safety. That includes implementing country of origin food labeling rules that have been repeatedly ignored.
The bill adds $7 million for the FDA to beef up inspection of imported foods and directs $6.5 million to hire more meat inspectors. REP. ROSA DELAURO (D), CONNECTICUT: From spinach to seafood to peanut butter and pet food, this has shown our food safety system is dangerously inadequate and that we must transform the way we meet our obligation to protect the public health.
SYLVESTER: The reforms are good, but not enough, according to a former FDA official, who says the agency is set up to react to problems instead of preventing them. A starting point would be to establish industry-wide standards.
MIKE TAYLOR, FORMER FDA OFFICIAL: What is the acceptable level of bacteria that can be present and have food still be safe?
You know, how do we set standards and enforce standards to prevent problems?
That's really what the system needs to be about.
SYLVESTER: Consumer groups say the federal government is losing this food fight, as imports outpace oversight. Imported foods have more than doubled in the last seven years, while there's been a decline in the number of food inspectors.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SYLVESTER: Consumer group says other structural changes are necessary, including merging the FDA and the USDA into one agency. Right now, the two departments don't share inspectors. That means you can have a USDA investigator examining meat and produce at a port, but will ignore all of the other imported food, leaving it to the FDA. The problem is the FDA just doesn't have the resources for the additional screening -- Lou.
DOBBS: And this administration continues to reduce those resources, reduce the manpower in each of these agencies at a time when that inspection is obviously critical to the safety of the American consumer.
SYLVESTER: They don't have enough food inspectors and that number has actually been falling.
DOBBS: It is outrageous. It is simply outrageous what this administration and this Congress now are taking responsibility for in this country and the failure of this administration over the past six years to do what is right, as the president likes to speak for the American people.
Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
Coming up here next, more on today's House hearing into the case of Ramos and Compean. The hearing just concluded. I will be joined by Congressman Dana Rohrabacher and Congressman Walter Jones.
Later, an expert on Mexico, Professor William Grayson, joins me to discuss the role of the Mexican government and its powerful drug cartels in American politics and U.S. government policy. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congressman Dana Rohrabacher is the ranking member of the Foreign Affairs Subcommittee investigating the miscarriage of justice in the case of former Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Compean. The Republican congressman from California has also called for the resignation of U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton for not testifying today in a case that quotes -- that he says "stinks to high heaven."
Dana Rohrabacher is here with us tonight.
Good to have you with us, Congressman.
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: Thank you.
DOBBS: The Foreign Affairs Subcommittee investigation into the role of the Mexican government, were there any surprises to you at all today?
ROHRABACHER: Well, the main surprise, I guess, came from the chairman of the subcommittee itself. In fact, Chairman Delahunt announced that he is calling on President Bush to commute the sentences of these two Border Patrol agents. And that happened with several other members today as the hearing progressed.
He also announced Chairman Conyers will be holding hearings of the Judiciary Committee.
And Mr. Sutton wouldn't come to our hearing today. I mean he's able to go on TV around the country, but I don't think he can duck the Judiciary Committee.
DOBBS: Well, Congressman Rohrabacher, the U.S. attorney, Johnny Sutton, said that -- his office released a statement saying that the Department of Justice determined there was no basis for him to testify because the focus of the investigation is -- was into contacts with Mexico, the role of the Mexico government.
And U.S. Attorney Sutton says clearly -- just absolutely unequivocally -- that he had, and his office had, no contacts whatsoever with the Mexican government.
ROHRABACHER: Well, let me just note this.
DOBBS: Sure.
ROHRABACHER: Our jurisdiction on this subcommittee also goes to the issuance of official government passes, like the one that the U.S. attorney's office and the Department of Homeland Security gave to the drug dealer in this case. They gave them free border transit passes. And that is to a drug dealer after he had been fingered for a second drug deal. And that is part of our jurisdiction and Sutton knows it.
DOBBS: The Department of Homeland Security refused to put forward its inspector general, Mr. Skinner, to testify.
ROHRABACHER: Yes.
DOBBS: And, of course, they have direct responsibility for any contact that would have occurred since they were the lead investigative agency.
ROHRABACHER: It's their job to come to Congress and explain things to us and vote Johnny Sutton for the U.S. attorney. And both the Department of Homeland Security -- they both decided not to put themselves under oath.
So if you hear them now making statements publicly, how can you believe them, because they're not willing to go under oath and say the same thing?
DOBBS: It is -- there is a great deal, obviously, that is troubling about the Ramos and Compean case. But amongst the most perplexing has been the refusal of this administration, a Republican administration, you, as a Republican, a Republican president, to act almost, if I may say, Soviet in its response to inquiries from party members and the news media and the public about what is transparently and upon -- once upon, you know, achieving focus, a very difficult case to explain in terms of the motivation of the prosecutors, the Department of Homeland Security, and even officials of the U.S. Border Patrol.
ROHRABACHER: Well, I hate to say this, but there is a pattern of arrogance in this administration in dealing with Congress and dealing with the public's right to know some of these fundamental issues. And I see it and it's demonstrated by this case.
And here the president, when be begged and pleaded with him to step in and give -- and -- even after these guys have been beaten up and imprisoned -- and we're given the answer, oh, no, it's a long, arduous process they have to go through to get any commutation or any type of pardon.
Yet, a member of the president's clique in the White House, "Scooter" Libby -- and might I add I supported that commutation -- but then he gets it in a nanosecond.
Little guys get squashed. Members of the clique get -- get off, you know, get out of jail free.
DOBBS: Yes. And as you pointed out, it is a -- it is a sorry thing, in my opinion. And I would say on any other basis, for the president of the United States to respond, that his faith in the prosecution of this case and the outcome of that prosecution because, as he put it, Johnny Sutton is a friend of his.
ROHRABACHER: That's it.
DOBBS: It's -- it's troubling, at the very least. It is reassuring that you and your colleagues in Congress are doing so much to focus on the answers and achieving some semblance, at least, of answers at this early stage. We know you will continue.
ROHRABACHER: Yes, sir.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.
ROHRABACHER: Thank you.
DOBBS: You've been -- have been outstanding on this issue.
Joining me now, another outstanding congressman, Walter Jones, who attended today's hearings on the Border Patrol agents.
Congressman Walter Jones, good to have you with us.
REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Lou, thank you very much.
DOBBS: Let me ask you the same question I asked Dana Rohrabacher.
Any surprises today for you in anything you heard?
JONES: Well, no surprises because, obviously, Mr. Sutton didn't appear, nor did any of his staff. But what pleased me was Bill Delahunt, the subcommittee chairman, who feels as passionate about this issue, Lou, as you, myself and all of my colleagues who have been working so hard to make this White House awaken.
DOBBS: This, again, it's, you know, it is -- it's almost inexplicable. The United States Justice Department, the Department of Homeland Security, one of its agencies, the U.S. Border Patrol, and the way in which they have responded to the inquiries of Congress, you know, and the inquiries of the public, the national news media.
What is going on here?
JONES: Lou, in my opinion, this White House is too close to the Mexican government. I cannot believe that the Mexican government would be so interested in a known drug smuggler and to care so much about what's going to happen with him. And the fact is that if the president can give a commutation to "Scooter" Libby -- who ought to be in jail -- and these two Hispanic-Americans who try to protect American citizens from poison, meaning drugs, coming across the border and he will not even give them consideration, it's an injustice like I've never seen before.
DOBBS: The head of the Border Patrol Council, representing the Border Patrol agents; the appellate attorney for former Agent Ramos -- these are eloquent statements today...
JONES: Absolutely.
DOBBS: ...and lay out a clear case for -- to investing this prosecution.
Are you going to continue? JONES: Lou, I hate to say this, but the Democratic Party, which is now in control of the House and Senate, have done more to help us expose the injustice than my party did when we were the majority.
And I am pleased to say Chairman Conyers has told me that he plans -- and Mr. Delahunt announced today -- that there will be a full blown hearing in September of this year or early October. And Mr. Sutton will be subpoenaed to come to testify if he won't come voluntarily.
DOBBS: Well, good for you.
Good for Congressman Conyers.
Good for Congressman Delahunt, leading the subcommittee in Foreign Affairs.
JONES: Yes, sir.
DOBBS: The idea that these men have to be imprisoned, in the case of Ramos, for more than six months, as Congressman Rohrabacher pointed out during the hearings today, when it is a clear, clear issue that the president of the United States and his attorney general should take up and reconcile for the American people, I mean that just makes you gut sick.
JONES: So, Lou, I'm going to tell you, I don't know how the president can sleep at night, quite frankly, knowing that the American people -- and I want to thank you and your staff and CNN, truthfully, for being so out front for well over a year on this issue, by keeping this alive to inform the American people of the truth and inform the American people of the injustice.
I do not know what's wrong with this White House. I used this term the other day in an interview. I think almost that Rip Van Winkle must be heading the government.
DOBBS: Well, this -- this government has, in so many ways, Congressman, as you know -- it has failed to represent the interests of working men and women in this country, their families. Our educational system is under challenge. Illegal immigration is so -- this administration has the temerity to talk about comprehensive immigration reform when it is dealing with nothing comprehensively.
JONES: Absolutely. And, Lou, that, again, is why we believe that there is a serious, serious problem in what this federal prosecutor did in West Texas and how they gave this immunity to a drug smuggler -- a known drug smuggler.
And it's going to get exposed. And I thank god for the leadership in the House and Miss. Feinstein, Senator Feinstein...
DOBBS: Absolutely.
JONES: ...who's held hearings. And I know what's going to happen on our side in late September and October. And we're going to bring justice to these two men that should never have been sent to federal prison.
DOBBS: Congressman Walter Jones, we thank you for being with us.
JONES: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Appreciate it.
A reminder now to vote in our poll.
Do you believe the sentences of former Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Compean should be commuted and an investigation launched into their prosecution?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com.
We'll have those results in just a few moments.
Up next here, are Mexican government officials meddling in the Ramos and Compean case?
How much influence does the Mexican government have on U.S. domestic and foreign policy?
I'll be talking with one of the country's leading experts on Mexico about that nation's government's behavior.
And America waking up to a dangerous project that could erase national sovereignty and our borders. But, then again, that's just what some want.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The mainstream media finally beginning to pick up on a story we've been reporting here for some time -- the plan to build a superhighway -- yes, it really exists -- all the way from Mexico through the United States to Canada.
Critics say the so-called NAFTA superhighway is a first step towards eventual plans to merge Mexico, Canada and the United States into, effectively, one nation.
But federal officials are denying there are plans for any such highway. In fact, they told the "New York Times" that a "federal project for a behemoth highway bisecting the heart of the country and erasing America's borders is an urban legend."
At the same time, the White House today announced that President Bush and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper discussed ties between the two countries and relations with Mexico. The three leaders to hold a summit next month to disclose -- to discuss, not disclose, to discuss measures to make it easier to transport goods across our borders.
Lawmakers believe that that could result in even less border security, if that's imaginable.
George Grayson is professor at the College of William and Mary, an expert on Mexico, the drug cartels, as well, that are operating throughout Mexico, the hemisphere and, of course, crossing our border with Mexico into this country.
He joins us now.
Good to have you here.
GEORGE GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM & MARY: It's very nice to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, you hear the results of this hearing today. The State Department basically saying they don't know anything. The Department of Homeland Security refusing to show up. The U.S. Justice Department not sending -- I mean, A, this administration has little regard for Congress and the constitution, obviously. They have no -- I mean I hear more talk about bipartisanship and then you watch an administration that is stonewalling and not, apparently, giving a damn about the lives of two men who served the nation in uniform, protecting our border and their families.
What is going on?
GRAYSON: Well, I understand that the counsel in Laredo -- I'm sorry -- the counsel in El Paso, Lou, the Mexican counsel, contacted DHS, or vice versa, inquiring whether Osvaldo Aldrete, who is the smuggler of something like, what, 800 pounds of marijuana...
DOBBS: Right, as Congressman Rohrabacher pointed out, on two occasions and with, according to DEA, a known associate of the drug cartel for 12 years.
GRAYSON: And this is an especially vicious cartel there.
But in any case, there was a contact between the Mexican government and DHS.
The Mexican government inquiring whether the smuggler wanted their intervention or not and the smuggler says thanks, but no thanks, I don't want any more contact with authorities than I can handle.
And, moreover, it looks like he was going to get some kind of amnesty by cooperating with Prosecutor Sutton.
DOBBS: It turns out that that amnesty was a blanket amnesty rather than a limited use amnesty by -- for a specific date, as the Foreign Affairs Subcommittee pointed out again today.
Six visas -- two of them issued after a second drug load and before the beginning of the trial -- for the first and the shooting took place.
I mean this is, as the Foreign Affairs Subcommittee points out, that is suspicious beyond belief. GRAYSON: Well, what is, I think, absolutely ludicrous -- shocking -- is that the State Department wasn't in contact with the Mexican government about giving special treatment to a middle level smuggler. And this smuggler is from the Juarez cartel area, Lou.
These are mean people. They put their phones in vats of sulfuric acid.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask you, does it surprise you that the U.S. attorney and his prosecution team would give immunity to Alberto Davila, the drug smuggler, the illegal alien, given immunity to testify against these agents, but not ask where he was in the drug cartel's operation, who his bosses were, where the safe houses were, what the routes were that were going to be taken and what the distribution plan was or the drugs being smuggled?
GRAYSON: Well, Lou, that just boggles the mind. The only explanation could be is that police in Chihuahua, the state where Davila is from, are so incredibly corrupt that perhaps Mr. Sutton didn't want to show his hand or somehow blow his cover with them.
But you would think that before granting amnesty, he would ask those essential questions.
DOBBS: The role of the Mexican government here -- the Mexican government today, its Environmental Ministry coming out saying that we should not build a border fence or wall because that would affect ecosystems. Of course, the ecosystems, particularly in Arizona, are being literally trampled. Our national forests -- national and state forests there being trampled by the heavy traffic of illegal aliens crossing the border.
What in the world is the Mexican government doing when you look at a statement as moronic as that against a laudable effort on the part of Felipe Calderon to attack the drug cartels?
Balance that out for us.
GRAYSON: Well, for domestic politics in Mexico, it plays well to tweak Uncle Sam's nose. And that's what is going on. It's all a matter of internal domestic Mexican politics.
I think Calderon is committed to going after the drug barons. The problem is it's like trying to sweep back the ocean with a broom.
DOBBS: And that ocean has resulted in somewhere between 12 million and 20 million illegal aliens living in this country, most of them from Mexico, Mexican citizens.
The -- there is no sign whatsoever that this government of Mexico, and certainly this government in the United States, are in any way committed to stopping that illegal traffic across our southern border.
GRAYSON: Well, even worse is that many of the illegal aliens can, in fact, work for the drug cartels -- and they do -- as the Mexican cartels have overwhelmingly displaced the Colombians as the major suppliers of cocaine in this country.
DOBBS: Is there, you know, as you look at what you're witnessing. No one knows Mexico better than you -- its government, its politics, its society and economy. No one, you know, has any better sense of the direction we're headed here.
What would you say -- tell us tonight, just look in the camera and tell us what is the future for the relationship between these two nation and ours if we don't deal with both border security and illegal immigration.
GRAYSON: I think conditions are going to get worse and that 20 years from now, we're going to look at 2006-2007 as the good old days, when things were under control, because they're not going to be under control 10, 15 years from now. And I don't see the political will on either side of the border to create the opportunities in Mexico, to curb the avalanche of illegal workers coming into this country.
DOBBS: Professor George Grayson, the College of William and Mary, thank you very much.
GRAYSON: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Up next at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Thanks very much, Lou.
Dozens of detainees at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base are in line to be transferred out. But CNN's Brian Todd explains why one inmate prefers his tiny cell to a ticket home and is fighting to stay.
He's the man we have to thank for taking off our shoes every time we fly. Now there are letters to read from the so-called shoe bomber, Richard Reid.
And a very unflattering article about Judith Giuliani has her presidential candidate husband hopping mad. His campaign is furious at "Vanity Fair" magazine.
And she was the constant campaign of a Phoenix journalist killed in last week's terrible news chopper crash.
Where will Molly go now?
All of that, Lou, coming up right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM".
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you.
Still ahead here, the results of our poll, some more of your thoughts.
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll -- 98 percent of you responding, saying the sentences of former Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Compean should be commuted and an investigation launched into their prosecution.
A few of your thoughts now.
Jeff in Florida: "Lou, with the ACLU being so active on the pro- illegal alien side, do you think it's about time we asked them for truth in advertising? It would be more accurate if they were to change their name to the AACLU -- Anti-American Civil Liberties Union."
Patricia in New York: "Lou, I can't wait for your show to learn further what our government is taking us for a ride on. I switched to Independent."
And good for you.
And Tundy in New Jersey said: "I'm glad to inform you that today I became an Independent voter in New Jersey. Thank you for your program and I wish you the best."
And we wish you the best and congratulations.
Carson in California: "Lou, maybe we should start repealing laws until the country gets sane and livable again."
And Kathy in Arizona: "Dear Lou, it is obvious we no longer need a Congress to pass laws to protect us. The laws they pass, like those for food safety and immigration, are never enforced anyway."
It's a thought.
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
We thank you for being with us tonight.
Join us here tomorrow.
For all of us, thank you for watching.
Good night from Washington, D.C.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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