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Lou Dobbs Tonight
The State of American Labor
Aired September 03, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a special Labor Day edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT.
This country's middle class facing new threats. Illegal employers exploit cheap labor in this country, well-paying jobs sent overseas to foreign labor markets. We will examine the state of American labor.
States fed up with federal inaction take American job protection into their own hands. Governor Jennifer Granholm wants jobs to stay in Michigan. She joins us -- all that and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is special Labor Day edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, September 3.
Here now, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Christine Romans.
ROMANS: Good evening, everyone.
On this Labor Day, we will examine the challenges to this country's working men and women, from illegal labor to low-wage countries like communist China, big business interests, and an out-of- touch government. We will also report on the solutions being offered to protect American jobs.
We begin tonight with alarming new evidence that middle-class Americans are earning less. The Census Bureau reports that, for a third straight year, wages for middle-class workers have dropped and more middle-class Americans are without health insurance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): In this country last year, one in eight people lived in poverty. According to the Census Bureau, nearly 13 million children lived below the poverty line last year, unchanged from 2005. There was some improvement for the elderly, 9.4 percent in poverty. That's 3.4 million Americans.
The overall poverty rate hasn't improved much since the beginning of this decade, some 36.5 million people last year surviving below the federal poverty threshold, $10,294 for a single person, $20,244 for a family of four.
At the same time, for the middle class, the challenges grow.
DAVID JOHNSON, CENSUS BUREAU: This is the third consecutive year that both men and women have experienced a decrease in their real median earnings.
ROMANS: Women's earnings sank to $32,500. Men still make more, but their earnings also fell. Median household income rose to $48,200 last year, but more people had to be working in each household to achieve that. At the same time, the number of people without health insurance jumped to $47 million.
KARLYN BOWMAN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: About a quarter of Americans say that they or someone in their household has been without health insurance at some point in recent times. So, that's a very big number and one that we have to pay attention to.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: According to an analysis by a physicians group, 1.4 million of the newly uninsured are middle-class workers making more than $75,000 a year.
And while America's middle class struggles, a new report shows this country's executives have never done better. The report by United For a Fair Economy says CEOs of large U.S. companies averaged over 364 times the average pay of the American worker. Some CEOs made as much in one day as an average worker earned for an entire year.
The United States has the most generous legal immigration policies in the world with 1.3 million people receiving legal permanent residency last year. And there are nine legal work visa programs. But for years, the government has failed to enforce federal immigration law.
And, as Lisa Sylvester reports, the government's recent promise to do so may just be another attempt to push its amnesty agenda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two Cabinet secretaries made the announcement, a new get-tough strategy on illegal immigration.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: The magnet that brings more economic migrants into this country is work. If we have work site enforcement directed at illegal employment, we strike at that magnet.
SYLVESTER: The proposal calls for more border agents, adds new fencing, promotes an employment verification system, and requires company fire any workers caught using phony social security numbers. The administration's announcement comes after the collapse of the White House-backed come comprehensive immigration plan in the Senate. Immigration reformists were cautiously optimistic.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: I think we are finally hearing an echo of what the American people were saying last month. While Washington was talking about amnesty, the American people were saying, how about enforcing the law? SYLVESTER: But some critics questioned whether the administration is in fear about its illegal immigration crackdown or trying to lay the ground work for north attempt at a guest worker amnesty bill. Senator Chuck Grassley wants more than a just press conference and words on a piece of paper.
JIM EDWARDS, IMMIGRATION CONSULTANT: We are 6 1/2 years into this administration and they are finally waking up and saying we are going to enforce the laws on the books. It's a little tough on credulity to buy.
SYLVESTER: Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez acknowledged the administration has not given up hope for a guest worker program and legalization of illegal aliens.
CARLOS GUTIERREZ, COMMERCE SECRETARY: It is clear there are jobs Americans are not willing to do or Americans are not available to do, and we need to acknowledge this reality.
SYLVESTER: Business groups worry that the new regulations will cripple certain industries.
RANDY JOHNSON, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: I think it will have a suggest effect on a select number of employers in certain industries such as construction, roofing, agriculture, hotel, motel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Skeptics say they're not buying the administration's plan just yet for several reasons. There's no additional money set aside to implement these plans. Not all employers in the United States would be required to check workers' status, only those who want to do business with the federal government, and that unless there are more immigration enforcement agents checking to make sure companies are complying with the new rules, it will be more of the same -- Christine.
ROMANS: Lisa, Secretary Chertoff in your piece said something I find interesting. He said illegal employment. And that's an important distinction to make here, because there can't be illegal labor if there aren't employers who are illegal employers. And I think that's something, a distinction that's lost a lot in this debate.
SYLVESTER: Secretary Chertoff did indeed. In fact, one of the initiatives, this initiative is actually aimed at going after the employers.
For far too long, people have said it's the job magnet, and that's what you need to shut down -- Christine.
ROMANS: Also, the administration here, Carlos Gutierrez there with the mantra that we have heard from the administration so many times. There are not willing workers or jobs Americans won't do.
How do critics think that this administration is really going to crack down, if that seems to be the guiding philosophy from the administration?
SYLVESTER: Yes, the administration has really stuck to that line. There are jobs out there that Americans won't do.
But all you have to do is go into the heartland of this country. You find that most of these jobs, whether it be construction or landscaping, a number of Americans do work in those jobs.
ROMANS: Right. And, at some point, Americans worked in all of those jobs or legal immigrants worked in all of those jobs.
Lisa Sylvester, thank you so much.
The Democrats won the majority in Congress nearly one year ago by promising change for America's working men and women. But have they kept their promises?
Jessica Yellin joins me now from Capitol Hill -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christine, Congress is getting mixed reviews. As you know, they failed to pass immigration reform and have yet to make good on their promise to change the president's policy in Iraq.
The latest CNN poll shows that 55 percent of Americans believe Congress has been a failure so far. But, still, a majority trust the Democratic Congress over President Bush to solve the nation's problems.
Democrats have made good on some of their promises delivering the first minimum wage increase in more than a decade, passing measures to make college more affordable and increasing the funding for the State Children's Health Insurance Program, although the president has promised to veto that children's health care measure.
Now, there are a number of new issues they plan to take up when they return. One top issue is trying to protect Americans from the kind of bad imports from China we have seen lately. There's even been talk of possibly naming an imports czar, and they're interested in addressing some of the banking and mortgage issues we have seen, tackling predatory lending, and also trying to bail out some borrowers who are unable to pay their mortgages.
But the big issue, when Congress comes back, is Iraq. There are hearings and reports due in the next two weeks. And, in fact, this month Congress could decide the future of U.S. policy in Iraq and along with it, they will determine possibly whether Congress' abysmal approval ratings could go up in the near future -- Christine.
ROMANS: Jessica, thank you -- Jessica Yellin reporting.
In Congress, there is finally an effort to stop at least part of the war on our middle class. Lawmakers introduced the Patriot Employers Act. The bill would fight plant closings and the outsourcing of millions of jobs.
And, as Bill Tucker now reports, the legislation would reward companies who keep decent jobs right here in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): America has lost more than 3 million jobs over the last six years as its manufacturing base has been shifted out of this country. Companies move the jobs because of a combination of reasons. They were chasing cheap foreign labor, there were tax incentives to do so. The Patriot Corporations Act would reward companies with tax credits for keeping their businesses here.
SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: It's time that your government took the side of the middle class, took the side of working families, took the side of those particularly small companies, but companies of any size that play by the rules and are loyal to their -- to their community, to their customers, to their nation.
TUCKER: The bill's primary sponsors are Senators Dick Durbin, Sherrod Brown and Barack Obama. On the House side Representative Jan Schakowsky is taking the lead. The bill would reward companies with at least 90 percent of their production in the United States who perform at least 50 percent of their research and development here. Limit management compensation to 100 times the lowest-paid workers. Provide health care insurance for all of its workers and hire American workers.
The idea of tax incentives to follow the law may sound crazy, but with the deck stacked in favor of multinational corporations to take work offshore, some business groups say it may be time that the cards are reshuffled.
DAVID MARLETT, PROAMERICA COMPANIES: Certainly it would be nice that our government wouldn't have to give tax incentives for us to follow the law and be pro American and to be good patriots, but when our government is working against us, then maybe a counterbalancing act is unfortunately necessary.
TUCKER: The bill also calls for companies to support our men and women in the military and pay the difference between their regular salary and their military pay.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, the bill's been introduced in the Senate. And, so far, no Republicans have signed on in support and for it in the Senate, and don't have anybody lined up in the House either -- Christine.
ROMANS: Bill, I hate to even ask, but what are the prospects of this bill?
TUCKER: Well, slim to none, because there are no Republicans lined up in support.
ROMANS: All right, Bill Tucker -- thank you very much, Bill.
TUCKER: Yes.
ROMANS: Still ahead tonight, do this country's labor unions have their middle-class workers' best interests at heart?
Also, Democratic presidential hopefuls compete for the American worker's vote. We will have that report as well.
The rising threat of tainted goods imported from communist China, from the food on your table to the toys in the toy box.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: This year alone the Food and Drug Administration has rejected more than 1,200 food exports from communist China. And more than 60 percent of recalls announced by the Consumer Product Safety Commission were for products made there.
But many defective products in spoiled or contaminated food simply go undetected.
And, as Kitty Pilgrim now reports, one reason is government agencies charged with protecting public safety simply lack the resources to do their jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The average American eats more than 200 pounds of imported food a year. Less than 1 percent of that is inspected. The average American home is filled with all kinds of goods from China, electronics, toys, TVs, other manufactured goods. Two thirds of all defective products found this year are imported, the largest number from China. Chinese food imports have tripled in the last decade. Almost none of that is inspected. The FDA at current levels has only enough man power to inspect an estimated 40 of 361 ports.
CHRIS WALDROP, CONSUMER FEDERATION OF AMERICA: The FDA has been drastically under-funded for the past five years or so. And as a result, the agency is crippled and is now having -- we're now having to play catch-up.
PILGRIM: More than 12 federal agencies inspect food operating under 35 different statutes and the rules often conflict.
JANELL MAYO DUNCAN, CONSUMERS UNION: Many of the agencies, and there are probably far too many agencies who share responsibility for this area, they don't have enough funding.
PILGRIM: Overall, USDA spending fell by $3 billion in 2007 and a 2006 report found only 15 percent of meat and poultry products were physically inspected. The Consumer Product Safety Commission is at all time low on staff at about 400 inspectors, about half of what they had in the 1980s.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D) ILLINOIS: Well unfortunately, we have cut back on the resources of the Consumers Product Safety Commission. When consumers across America walk into a store, they trust that whatever is on the shelf is safe. Unfortunately, we don't have enough cops on the beat.
PILGRIM: They also don't have the power to recall products. They have to negotiate that with manufacturers.
Kitty Pilgrim, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Food is not the only dangerous import coming into this country from communist China. Recently, Mattel recalled nine million children's toys made in China. Those toys represented serious choking and lead danger; 80 percent of the toys sold in this country are made in China, and all but two of all recalls this year have involved Chinese toy makers.
All those goods coming in to this country come through more than 300 ports of entry.
And, as Casey Wian now reports, customs officials say they're facing a flood of counterfeit imports from -- you guessed it -- China.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From counterfeit coach bags to fake Viagra, U.S. ports are awash in phony imported products.
KEVIN WEEKS, CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION: Simple toy can bring laughter and joy to a young child. It also can bring tears and grief to that child's parents if it is full of lead paint or has small parts that can cause that child to choke.
WIAN: During the first half of fiscal 2007, Customs and Border Protection reports it seized more than 7,000 shipments of counterfeit goods worth $110 million, more than double the value seized the same period the previous year. CBP attributes the growth to improved counterfeiting technology, the spread of Internet sales, and increased enforcement efforts; 81 percent of the counterfeit goods come from communist China.
CAROLINE JOINER, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Seven hundred and fifty Americans lost their jobs because of counterfeiting and piracy. And, globally, trade in counterfeit and pirated products is as high as 5 percent of worldwide trade. This illegal trade is putting billions of dollars into the elicit economy, giving rise to criminal enterprises, breeding corruption, and feeding terrorism.
WIAN: While shoes are the most popular fakes, customs officials say at least 600 counterfeit shipments each year are classified as health and safety risks to American consumers, such as this fake diabetes testing kit or this counterfeit surgical mesh.
JUDGE RONALD LEW, U.S. DISTRICT COURT JUDGE: This is not a victimless crime. There is harm to be done, whether it be economic or health and safety harm that is done to the public.
WIAN: A public often more than willing to participate in the fraud, like this woman, who admits her coach bag is a knockoff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know it's illegal. It's just like buying the DVDs and the movies. So, it's the same thing.
WIAN: In June, Customs and Border Protection signed an agreement with communist China to share information about the sources of seized counterfeit goods.
(on camera): In return, China says it will communicate within 90 days the status of its efforts to track down counterfeiters. A Customs and Border Protection spokeswoman couldn't say how much information has been shared so far or if China has actually prosecuted anyone.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Still ahead, Democratic presidential candidates are courting middle-class voters. We will tell you what those candidates are promising and what the middle class is looking for in the next election.
And Michigan's governor has an innovative new program to help her state's struggling middle class. Governor Jennifer Granholm will be my guest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: There is new evidence of Americans' growing dissatisfaction with both this Congress and President Bush's job performance.
A recent Gallup poll found just 18 percent of Americans approve of the job Congress is doing; 76 percent of Americans disapprove. As for President Bush, a recent Gallup poll finds only 32 percent of them think the president is doing a good job; 63 percent say they disapprove of his job performance.
Increasing voter dissatisfaction may signal working men and women in this country are looking for a presidential candidate to president their interests for a change. Democrats, some of them, are courting big labor, hoping that they might make that connection.
Recently, the Democratic candidates faced off in a presidential forum sponsored by the country's biggest labor union.
Candy Crowley reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLY BERINGER, RESURRECTION HOSPITAL WORKER (singing): ... going to lay down my sword and shield...
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kelly Beringer is a politicized woman, a nurse, trying to unionize her Chicago hospital. And along the way, she has broadened her sights.
BERINGER: We need a president who is going to take the direction of the people, a president who values, who respects the rights of workers.
CROWLEY: From a living wage, the freedom to unionize and the price and pitfalls of free trade agreements, nobody has courted union interests more heavily than John Edwards.
JOHN SWEENEY, PRESIDENT, AFL-CIO: There's no question that John Edwards has been raising the issues that are very close to the hearts of workers, and it has been, I think, motivating some of the debate.
CROWLEY: But the '08 field is fertile ground for the labor movement. Hillary Clinton has sought to put some distance between her thoughts and the pro-globalization record of her husband.
And Barack Obama, with a pro-union reputation in his home state, has walked picket lines with strikers, even said he would do it again if elected.
All of the '08 Democrats have in one form or another pledged allegiance to issues near and dear to union workers. In short, options are open.
SWEENEY: We are blessed with an abundance of riches and good candidates who are very strong on so many of the issues. But work is our priorities.
CROWLEY: An umbrella group of unions, the AFL-CIO is the most sought-after endorsement. It can provide campaigns with an infusion of ground troops and money.
PETER FRANCIA, PROFESSOR, EAST CAROLINA UNIVERSITY: The dilemma that unions face is whether John Edwards can actually win the nomination, because labor does not want to back a loser. And right now Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are definitely the top two candidates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't keep the people down!
CROWLEY: They want to avoid a 2004 repeat, when multiple union endorsements didn't bring victory to either Richard Gephardt or Howard Dean. An AFL-CIO primary endorsement looks unlikely this year, and the labor federation hopes member unions will not make hasty endorsements of their own, waiting, instead, for the picture to crystallize.
Outside her hospital in Chicago, the newly politicized Kelly Beringer, looks forward to '08.
BERINGER: Collectively, with these union people around me, I think that you have more power and influence on politicians and in the outcome of elections.
CROWLEY: About a quarter of 2006 voters came from union households. They voted 2-1 Democratic.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Just last week, Senator Hillary Clinton picked up the endorsement of the United Transportation Union. And Senator Christopher Dodd of Connecticut won the endorsement of the International Association of Firefighters Union.
Coming up, we will talk to representatives from two of America's largest labor unions and states stepping in where the federal government has failed, how Michigan's governor is keeping jobs in her state.
And liberal elites influencing government and public policy? The author of a provocative new book says they're betraying this country's best interests. He's our guest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Randi Kaye. Back to LOU DOBBS TONIGHT in just a moment. First, a quick check on the headlines.
He was supposed to stop in Hawaii on the way to Australia. Instead, President Bush landed in Iraq, dropping in at the Al-Assad Air Base in Anbar Province for a meet-and-greet with the troops and a quick sit-down with the Iraqi leadership.
While there, he touted progress in Anbar and hinted at a troop reduction, but only if the generals say so. The president is now airborne. Next stop, Sydney.
Next stop, somewhere in Central America for Hurricane Felix, now a Category 4 storm packing 135-mile-an-hour winds.
Tracking it for us, CNN severe weather expert Chad Myers.
Chad, what's the latest?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Randi.
Still a very dangerous storm, yes, a Category 4, not a Category 5, lost a little intensity, lost a little organization over the daylight hours here.
And we're not probably going to run this thing into Honduras or Nicaragua as a Cat 5, but more like a Cat 4, 140 miles per hour or so, right now, 135, but the hurricane hunter aircraft could only find 130 the past hour, so, maybe even dying down just a little bit, and that's some good news.
Honduras, all the way back over to Asula -- these are very remote areas along the coasts of Honduras.
KAYE: Thank you, Chad.
Those are the headlines. Now back to LOU DOBBS TONIGHT.
ROMANS: Welcome back to this special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT -- War on the Middle Class.
As we reported earlier, disturbing new census figures show middle class workers are increasingly making less money. Middle class workers are also victims of increased outsourcing of jobs and the loss of manufacturing jobs to cheap labor markets overseas.
Labor unions are right in there in the fight to protect millions of American jobs.
Joining me now are Thea Lee, economist at the AFL-CIO, the country's largest labor organization, and Bruce Raynor of Unite Here. It represents almost a million workers and retirees.
Welcome to the program, both of you.
And happy Labor Day.
BRUCE RAYNOR, UNITE HERE: The same to you, Christine.
THEA LEE, AFL-CIO: Thanks, Christine.
ROMANS: Let me ask you first, Thea, talk about those census numbers. They show 47 million people in this country are uninsured. They show the median real earnings for individuals down again, household income up -- and that's good news, except a lot of the economists say that's because it takes two people to make that go up -- two people working full-time, harder and longer than ever.
What does this say about the state of the American labor situation?
LEE: I think these are terrible figures for American workers and they simply reinforce the trends that we've seen in place for quite some time now, that American workers are working harder than ever. They're working more productively than ever. And yet they're earning less year after year. This is the third year in a row that we've seen a fall in earnings -- annual earnings -- for full-time year round workers, both for men and for women. And that's truly disgraceful at a time when we have technological growth, we have productivity growth and workers simply aren't getting their fair share of the wealth that they're helping to create.
ROMANS: Bruce, let me ask you about that uninsured number, 47 million uninsured, so many of them children. It is -- it is government insurance that people are losing or leaving. And it is employer -- private employer insurance -- that is going away for people. And one study, a physicians' group study showed that 1.4 million of those jobs were people who made $75,000 or more a year. Those are middle class jobs that are becoming uninsured.
RAYNOR: Well, the real story, Christine, with the loss of health insurance is private sector health insurance has been the backbone of the way it's been provided in this country. And as we lost three million manufacturing jobs since George Bush was inaugurated as president of the United States, those jobs carry with them health care for the employee and their families. That's been lost to our economy. And those jobs have been replaced with jobs like Wal-Mart jobs, where workers don't get health care.
And the result is it isn't government insurance that's been lost, it's private sector insurance that's been lost as income inequality has grown in America.
ROMANS: Right.
RAYNOR: Some of it because of the loss of jobs because of trade and some of it because of the growth of low wage jobs, low wage employers. The Wal-Mart model, whether it's in the hotel industry, whether it's for janitors or retail workers, are low wages and lousy benefits for workers.
We have also seen the tremendous growth of income inequality, that the top 1 percent have the same wealth as the bottom 90 percent of our society, so that a handful of people are getting richer and the middle class is being pushed downward -- and not only in health care, but in income and living standards. At the same time, they're more productive and our economy is growing at incredible rates. It's absolutely a scandal.
ROMANS: See, I think both of you are going to agree that trade and our trade policies have something very big to do with this.
LEE: Certainly. And we've had flawed trade policies in this country, which have really pulled the rug out from underneath American workers and haven't been particularly good for workers in other countries, either. And I think that's a key part of the loss of manufacturing jobs that Bruce talked about. It's a key part of the loss of the middle class here in the United States. And it's a key part of the loss of health care and pensions, because we simply don't have in place the kind of social programs we need if we're going to be a top class competitor in a global economy. Our policymakers have really fallen down on the job and we're looking to reform that very quickly.
RAYNOR: I mean we have the most sophisticated medical technology in the world. We have the wealthiest country in the history of mankind. It is a national disgrace that 47 million Americans don't have health care. It's a national disgrace that parents have to make decisions about whether they get groceries for their families or whether they take the child to a doctor.
We spend more on health care than any other country in the world and yet we don't insure a giant percentage of our population, including 10 million children. It is a national disgrace and the politicians ought to be ashamed of themselves.
ROMANS: This will become, I'm sure, a campaign trail issue for the Democrats. I'm sure both sides, ideological sides of the political spectrum, can look at these numbers and read the best part they want out of it. The poverty numbers did improve for the first time since this president has been in office, improved slightly. And poverty for the elderly improved slightly.
So we should point out those are -- those are good steps. But there's still one in eight in this country, Thea, who -- who live in poverty.
LEE: Right.
Well, and I think the other thing, Christine, that we need to keep in mind is that there are still more people in poverty today than in 2000 and median household income is down since 2000. That was the peak of the last recovery.
So we've been in an economic recovery for quite some time now and we aren't seeing the -- the kind of dramatic improvement in poverty and income that you would normally see in an economic recovery.
RAYNOR: But, you know, in -- the other side of poverty is there are 28 million Americans that went to work this morning that make less than the poverty level. Poverty is not about people staying home. It's not about lazy people. It's about people not being paid enough.
ROMANS: The working poor.
RAYNOR: And the 47 million without health care, most of them work. It's just that their employers don't provide health care. And the same issue goes toward retirement, which is now going to really become a crisis in America. We now have a handful of Americans, a small minority of our workforce, that have defined benefit pension plans.
ROMANS: Right.
RAYNOR: American workers are not making enough while they're working. They can't save for retirement.
What's going to happen as they get older?
The society is going to have to bear the cost...
ROMANS: Let me...
RAYNOR: ...that employers have avoided.
ROMANS: Let me bring something else in here. So you have these challenges for working people in this country. At the same time, you have illegal employers -- employers who would rather than be part of any kind of safety net, any kind of requirements for safety standards or for -- or for taking care of their workers would rather use and exploit workers who are in this country illegally. Thea, what is the challenge of that part of that part of the American labor market story for you and your union?
LEE: We absolutely need to protect the rights of all workers here in the United States, whatever their status, their documented or undocumented status. And we cannot allow unscrupulous employers to take advantage of and exploit workers who are here on a precarious status. And so I think that's, for us, got to be a top priority.
We have to make sure that workers are protected, that our immigration laws and our labor laws are working to protect the rights of workers here. They have to have the right to organize a union. And we can't allow employers to use their status against them to bust unions and to fight against any decent increases in wages or health care.
ROMANS: So, Thea, you think that workers who are in the country illegally should have the right to union representation?
LEE: Absolutely. That's the only thing that can protect them. And it can also protect American workers -- American-born workers -- that if we take away the right to union representation, the right to have labor laws respected from undocumented workers, we really undermine all workers in this country. And so that's...
ROMANS: But let me...
LEE: That's important.
RAYNOR: Christine...
ROMANS: Go ahead.
RAYNOR: Workers' right to organize has been lost in America. Employers and a weak labor law system have taken away American workers' rights to organize, whether they're undocumented images or documented immigrants; whether they're native-born workers. Workers have lost the right to organize.
And so what we need to do to restore workers' power against employers, to make it a fair, balanced relationship, is to increase workers' power. And that gives them the -- that is to give them the right to organize.
Undocumented workers don't reduce wages. It's employers exploiting workers -- documented and undocumented, and native-born -- that reduce wages.
ROMANS: But if employers can't exploit the workers, then there isn't a magnet for the undocumented workers, isn't that right?
RAYNOR: No question. But employers exploit Native American workers, immigrant workers, documented and undocumented. That's what has to be changed.
And the immigrant workers that come in have always been the mainstay of our economy. We need them for employment. These workers are here. They pay taxes.
ROMANS: You don't think that that availability of labor, especially labor that's cheap, that isn't -- that's completely unregulated -- drives down wages?
I mean if we look at some of these numbers, you know, four out of five of the service jobs that were created over the past five years pay below $577 a week. If the growth is in service jobs and we need people to come and do service jobs, those aren't big paying service jobs.
RAYNOR: Well, let me give you an example. A hotel housekeeper -- mostly all immigrants -- in New York City, is a member of our union, makes $22 an hour. She has health care and a defined benefit pension plan.
Her counterpart in Atlanta, Georgia, where there's almost no union hotels, makes $7 an hour working for the same hotel companies, has no defined benefit pension plan and no health care.
It is not about whether they're immigrants or not. Both those workers are immigrants. It's about whether workers have the right to organize, giving themselves power to balance an employer.
LEE: Right.
RAYNOR: That's really the issue.
The truth about undocumented workers and immigration is that it's good for America. We've always had people try to blame another group for lower wages. Blacks were blamed for lower wages in the industrial past...
ROMANS: Well, let me jump in for a second here because...
RAYNOR: But it wasn't about blacks. It was about employers.
ROMANS: I want to make clear that on this program we've taken great pains to differentiate between legal immigration, which refreshes the nation and fills important roles in the labor market, and illegal immigration, which undermines the rest of that.
You know, so -- I mean you say immigration. I'm thinking you mean -- sometimes you mean legal immigration and sometimes you mean illegal -- are you -- do you see immigration both as the same thing?
RAYNOR: I see it at the same. We have 12 million, at least, undocumented workers in this country. They're not going anyplace.
ROMANS: And to you, that's the same as a legal worker in the workforce?
RAYNOR: I think it is. Immigrant workers have always fed our economy, whether they were Irish immigrants or whether they are Latino immigrants. And we believe that those workers ought to be protected. That's how you not only help the economy, but that's how you help workers get power, by protecting those workers.
It's employers that exploit workers of all types that drive down wages and benefits.
ROMANS: Thea, let me ask you, quickly, for the last point. You know, you can take that a step further and say all workers are the same and why would a worker have to be here?
You know, we have a concern now in some of the unions about Mexican truck drivers, for example, being allowed onto -- onto American roads and doing the same jobs as American truck drivers do for much less and with less safety standards. I mean you could just broaden out that argument and say all North American workers are equal.
LEE: Well, national borders do have some meaning. And, obviously, we -- we don't have the same safety regulations for trucks or truck drivers. And anybody who's on American soil should be protected by American labor laws and American safety and health laws. And that's -- that's an absolute fact.
ROMANS: Right.
LEE: And we'd like to improve and strengthen worker rights and worker protections in all countries. But in the meantime, the place where we have the most ability to do that is right here in the United States. And that's where we should get started.
ROMANS: And, all right.
Thank you very much, both of you, for an interesting and wonderful discussion.
I really appreciate it.
Thea Lee, the economist at the AFL-CIO, and Bruce Raynor, the president of Unite Here.
Thank you, Bruce.
RAYNOR: Thank you, Christine.
ROMANS: Thank you, both of you.
Coming up next, Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm's new plan to help her state's middle class workers. We'll tell you all about the new program and Governor Granholm will be my guest.
And are wealthy liberal elites destroying this country?
We'll hear from the author of a provocative new book, "Betrayal."
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROMANS: Faced with the highest unemployment rate in the country, the governor of Michigan is taking action with a new program called No Worker Left Behind.
I'm joined now by Governor Jennifer Granholm of Michigan.
Governor, thanks for joining us.
GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), MICHIGAN: You bet. Thanks for having me on.
ROMANS: First of all, you have in your state a devastating situation with the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs and the highest unemployment rate in the nation. You want to leave no worker behind. Your program is called No Worker Left Behind.
What does that mean?
How do you achieve it?
GRANHOLM: What we want to do is to offer to 100,000 unemployed or underemployed workers the chance to be trained and placed in a relevant vacancy in the economy. We have 90,000 vacancies in Michigan, but an over 7 percent unemployment rate. And what we want to do is train people for those vacancies, because many of them require some kind of training.
This isn't like your regular workforce training initiative, though. This is all driven by what employers need. And it's all to pay for the tuition of those workers who have had the rug pulled out from under them by unfair trade or their jobs going to Mexico or China. We want to give them a chance to succeed. We want to give them a chance at short-term training that gives them dignity and a career.
ROMANS: There are some jobs in your state that you just can't outsource, as well. Nursing is one of them; auto mechanics; other sort of service jobs that need certification and training. This is a way to get people who are out of work now because of those trade policies and get them into another field.
GRANHOLM: Well, these are great workers. We've got the best work ethic in the nation. We're ready, willing and able. But what we're lack -- we have a skills gap. We've got a lot of people who rightfully, at the time they made the decision, went from high school to factory. And now those factory jobs have left and they have a family to raise and they say who's going to hire me?
Well, a lot of people would hire them if they had the specific training.
So we have decided the State of Michigan into 20 different regions. In each of those regions, we've canvassed every employer. We've found these 90,000 vacancies. We've teamed up with the community colleges. They're going to offer short-term training. The state and the federal government are going to pay for it. And it's all driven by what employers need and by what workers need, which is the dignity of having a job.
ROMANS: The state and federal government, then, will pay for it?
GRANHOLM: Yes. What we're doing is taking Workforce Investment Act dollars and trade adjustment assistance dollars, along with our state job training dollars. We're reconfiguring our whole system to have it driven by the needs in the economy and to pay -- this is a one time offer is what it really is -- a one time, first come, first served take it or leave it. We want to do is to get the people who are unemployed in the door. We'll pay for up to two years of tuition, up to $4,000 per year for every worker who comes in.
Of course, many of the workers are going to require much shorter term training than a two year degree. But the community colleges are going to be the workforce training arm. They may have a six month certification program to be an emergency medical technician in that region. They may have a six week program to become a truck driver in that region. We'll pay for it.
ROMANS: Governor, how do you respond to critics who maybe are concerned about who's going to pay for this or are concerned about the program altogether?
The head of Michigan's Republican Party says, "It doesn't make any sense to train Michigan residents for jobs that don't exist, only to prepare them to leave our state and find jobs elsewhere."
How do you react to that?
GRANHOLM: Because this is all driven by employers who do exist in Michigan who are looking for workers. Right now, at our Detroit Medical Center, we have 700 vacancies for nurses. We have 300 other vacancies for the rest of the health care profession. In fact, we're taking in nurses from Canada who need to fill those spots because we don't have enough trained, qualified workers for the positions that exist.
So that's why this is all really geared toward those positions that exist now in our economy that require some kind of training.
ROMANS: Governor Jennifer Granholm, thank you so much for joining us today.
GRANHOLM: You bet.
Thank you.
ROMANS: Still ahead, a new push to keep the United States competitive in math and science.
And how the liberal elite betrays America and a few words for the conservative elite, as well.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROMANS: Congress recently passed legislation that increases funding for math and science education. The bill is designed to keep the United States competitive within the global marketplace and to keep American jobs from being shipped overseas.
But critics say the bill doesn't fix the underlying fundamental policy problem -- that it's cheaper for companies to outsource the jobs overseas.
Congressman Bart Gordon is the chairman of the House Committee on Science and Technology.
He discussed the legislation with Lou.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
REP. BART GORDON (D), TENNESSEE: Well, I think it's a misunderstanding to think that this bill is only for producing a few great scientists or engineers. It's much broader than that.
If you look at the problem that we have in this country, there are about seven billion people in the world, half of which make less than $2 a day. We can't compete and we don't want to compete on that level. Which means that we've got to be making 50 widgets for every one widget they're making in China. We've got to be innovating and developing the widget maker and manufacturing that widget maker here.
So, whether you are a high school graduate, whether you are a junior college graduate or a college graduate, no matter what it is, you're going to have to work at a higher skill level. You're going to have to have a better proficiency in math and science so that we can be more efficient and more productive. And that's what we're trying to do, in addition to investing in research so that we are in the lead in those areas.
DOBBS: The National Academies issued a report in 2005 that two thirds of all fourth to ninth graders in this country are testing below the proficient level in mathematics.
Will your legislation move to that level of education?
GORDON: Absolutely. It's K to 12. And the problem, Lou, is it's not that our kids aren't smart. But when you look at scores around the world, only Cypress and South Africa have lower math and science scores than our kids.
DOBBS: The reason is that -- and, again, we have good teachers. But our teachers aren't proficient in their material...
DOBBS: Oh, Congressman, if I may interrupt you.
GORDON: Yes?
DOBBS: Look, we've got some wonderful teachers. But we -- we've got to acknowledge the realities. We have teachers who don't even -- who have not -- that's not their main -- the subjects they're teaching wasn't their major.
GORDON: Well, that's the reality.
DOBBS: You know...
GORDON: That's what I'm talking about.
DOBBS: Yes.
GORDON: Right now, there's something like 67 percent of the middle school math teachers don't have a certificate or a major in that area -- 87 percent of the science teachers. And we're going to do something about that. We're going to do two things. One, we're going to bring those teachers in for the summer, provide them stipends to get their certification, A.P. courses, whatever might be necessary.
We're going to set up a scholarship program for those students that want to go into math, science and education and agree to teach for five years.
So it's really focused on getting the teachers up to teach and inspire.
DOBBS: Well, I'm inspired that we're -- we have you thinking about this and your colleagues to move it forward. It's certainly something the country needs -- a focus, an incentive and inspiration for our young people, and to make certain that every kid in this country, irrespective of his or her economic or social circumstance, can get an education, certainly in mathematics, engineering and science.
GORDON: Right.
And if we don't...
DOBBS: My hat's off to you.
GORDON: If we don't do that, I'm very afraid that my daughter and this next generation could be the first generations of Americans that inherit a national standard of living less than their parents.
DOBBS: Well, you know, as you were saying, it isn't that our students are dumb. But, man, have we got some dumb people leading this country to get us in this kind of mess. And I'm talking about not -- I'm not talking about simply politicians. I'm talking about the business leaders who talk out of one side of their mouth about education and then do nothing to improve those -- the opportunities for education for all Americans.
We thank you for doing so.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ROMANS: Still ahead, are the liberal elites destroying America?
Lou talks to the author of "Foundations of Betrayal: How the Liberal Super Rich Undermine America." And he'll have a couple of words for the conservative elites, as well. You won't want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: The author of a provocative new book says wealthy liberal elites are destroying this country through their control of powerful tax-exempt foundations.
Lou recently spoke with Phil Kent, author of the book "Foundations of Betrayal: How the Liberal Super Rich Undermine America."
He talked to him about just how much these organizations influence government policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PHIL KENT, AUTHOR, "FOUNDATIONS OF BETRAYAL": You've got about 16,000 of these private, tax-exempt foundations. You've got $500 billion in assets. And a lot of this, Lou, they're not just benign liberal think tanks that are for big taxes and big government. They are out there actively with an agenda, under the guise of charity, to change America.
DOBBS: Under the guise of charity, set up under the tax code 503, 504.
KENT: Right.
DOBBS: I mean we've got a number of them.
But the idea that these foundations can -- who are the worst offenders, in your opinion?
KENT: In my book, I say the Ford Foundation is the most radical un-American foundation. And I'll explain that in a minute.
And, number two, and trying harder, is George Soros and his Open Society Institute, absolutely trying to undermine America at every turn.
DOBBS: How so?
How so?
KENT: A couple quick examples. Both of them give to these radical Islamic charities. Ford Foundation -- the Al-Mezan Center for Human Rights, which supports suicide bombers over in Palestine. That's a recipient of Ford largesse.
The same with Soros, funding radical Muslims.
DOBBS: Well, the idea that this is going on -- there are also a lot of conservative foundations out there and a lot of super rich conservatives.
KENT: But... DOBBS: Why didn't you -- why didn't you mess -- mess with them?
KENT: You know, that's a good question. But they're not undermining America. They're out there doing their policy discussions, as are a lot of the liberal foundations.
These are the most radical and, as the subtitle of my new book indicates, these are the ones that are undermining America, whether it's through a radical open borders agenda, whether it's through a radical green, Al Gore type agenda or...
DOBBS: Or how about the ACLU?
We've been having a lot of fun here lately with them on a number of issues.
What -- how about them?
They're supported by a lot of these foundations.
KENT: They absolutely are. They're a favorite of all of these foundations -- Ford, Rockefeller, Tides.
DOBBS: All right.
We appreciate you being with us.
Phil Kent.
The book is "The Foundations of Betrayal."
Good luck with it, Phil.
Thank you.
Fascinating reading, a fascinating subject.
Come back.
We'll talk more.
KENT: Appreciate you.
DOBBS: We'll talk about some of those conservative super rich, too.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ROMANS: All right, thank you for joining us for this special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT.
Please join us tomorrow.
For all of us here, thanks for watching.
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