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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Mexico Threatening U.S. Sovereignty?; Illegal Worker Crackdown Blocked
Aired September 04, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a new threat to U.S. sovereignty from the government of Mexico. The president of Mexico, Felipe Calderon, an imperialist, declaring Mexico does not end at its borders. We will have that special report.
Also, tonight, rising outrage over a New York public school that today began teaching students Arab language and culture. Critics say radical Islamists may be trying to impose their agenda on our society.
And will the Bush administration soon begin the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq? One of the world's leading authorities on the war and the Middle East, Fouad Ajami, gives us his assessment here tonight. He's just returned from Iraq.
And three of the country's top radio talk show hosts join me.
All of that, all the day's news, much more, straight ahead, here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Tuesday, September 4.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
We begin with a scathing new report challenging the president's conduct of the war in Iraq. The independent Government Accountability Office says the Iraqi government has failed to meet 11 out of 18 political and security goals.
Meanwhile, the Pentagon is investigating reports that communist China hacked into the Defense Department's computer system. The cyber-attack forced the Pentagon to shut down an e-mail system that serves Defense Secretary Robert Gates and other Pentagon top officials.
First, Jessica Yellin reports on today's damning new assessment of the lack of progress in the war in Iraq -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, members of both parties say the findings are disappointing and Democrats say they stand in stark contrast to the president's more positive assessment of the situation in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) YELLIN (voice-over): A list of failures in Iraq. The report by the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office found, in all, Iraq failed to meet 11 of 18 benchmarks, disarming militias, failure, reducing sectarian violence, failure, increasing the number of Iraqi troops to stand up, failure. Democrats say it's a damning analysis and point to this assessment of the Iraqi government.
DAVID WALKER, COMPTROLLER GENERAL, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE: I think you would have to say it's dysfunctional. The government is dysfunctional.
YELLIN: They say it's proof the surge itself has failed.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: The bottom line is very simple. We are worse off today in Iraq than we were six months ago.
YELLIN: Republicans agree the report is disappointing.
SEN. NORM COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA: And I hope this continues to put pressure on the Iraqis to say that we're not satisfied with their performance.
YELLIN: But most in the president's party say they will withhold judgment until they receive General Petraeus' make-or-break report next week.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: There are a number of reports, but all reports are not equal.
YELLIN: The GAO did find Iraq met three benchmarks, two for establishing and supporting security stations in Baghdad, the other ensuring minority rights in the Iraqi legislature. Those who support the surge say that's three better than six months ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: And the findings are more negative, dramatically more negative, than a White House analysis that came out just earlier this summer. They found that on seven different benchmarks, Iraq was performing much better than the GAO analysis found.
Democrats are now questioning whether this means the White House has been sugarcoating the information it's releasing on Iraq -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jessica, thank you very much -- Jessica Yellin from Capitol Hill.
The Iraqi parliament today returned to work after a month-long recess but they failed to make any progress on meeting political and military benchmarks. Lawmakers say the Iraqi government has not sent them any draft laws for consideration. The draft laws include measures to share oil revenues, to set a date for provincial elections, and to allow former Saddam Hussein officials to return to public office.
After his brief stop-over in Iraq, President Bush today arrived in Australia, there for Asian-Pacific Summit meeting. Australia of course is one of this country's closest allies in the war in Iraq. That war is expected to be one of the top issues at the two-day summit.
Elaine Quijano reports from Sydney.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even before the president's surprise visit, Iraq was already overshadowing his trip to the annual meeting of Asian and Pacific leaders in Sydney, Australia, this week. To ensure he's in Washington ahead of congressional testimony in Iraq by Lieutenant General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker, the president will leave the conference a day early but he will have a chance to strengthen ties with Australian Prime Minister John Howard, one of his staunchest war-on-terror allies.
MICHAEL GREEN, FORMER BUSH ASIAN AFFAIRS ADVISER: Howard stood with the president very closely on Iraq. John Howard was in Washington on 9/11. So, they were really working together based on this common experience.
YELLIN: Yet, the president could lose the ally he calls a man of steel. With Australia's upcoming election, polls show the prime minister lagging behind opposition party candidate Kevin Rudd. Rudd says he won't back down on his party's call for a phased withdrawal of Australian combat forces from Iraq.
President Bush also plans to meet with him.
GREEN: He may end up being prime minister. So, it's absolutely appropriate for the president to spend some time talking to him, as many Americans have with Labor leaders over the decades.
YELLIN: But 9/11 Commissioner Lee Hamilton says Iraq has limited the president's clout on the world stage.
LEE HAMILTON, FORMER CO-CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: Well, I think there's no doubt at all that it has hurt it profoundly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: Now, as for that GAO report, White House spokesman Tony Fratto in Washington said he's not aware that anyone expected the benchmarks to be completed by September, saying that it would be more useful to look at the testimony of General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker for what he called a more thorough picture of the current status in Iraq.
Meantime, here in Sydney, Australia, the president, just a short time from now, will be meeting with the prime minister of Australia, John Howard. The two men will have expanded meetings with the two delegations before the two leaders appear before reporters to answer some questions -- Lou.
DOBBS: Elaine, thank you very much -- Elaine Quijano from Sydney.
And of course, General Petraeus will deliver his report to Congress next week.
A top U.S. official in Australia today said North Korea must do more to end its nuclear weapons program. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill said North Korea will remain on the U.S. list of states that sponsor terrorism until Pyongyang meets its commitments in full. Hill's comments come two days after North Korea told the United States that it will give up its nuclear program by the end of this year.
North Korea's closest ally, communist China, is suspected of launching a major cyber-attack against the Pentagon earlier this summer. That attack is believed to have been launched by China's military, the People's Liberation Army. It is another example of China's rising threat to this nation and U.S. interests.
Barbara Starr reports now from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Officially, the Chinese government says it forbids computer attacks and says it didn't hack into Pentagon computers.
Officially, the U.S. isn't even accusing China of cracking into the military em system that serves Defense Secretary Robert Gates and several hundred others.
But, behind the scenes, a senior administration official says China is the number-one suspect in the June hacking incident which led the Pentagon to shut down its unclassified e-mail for nearly three weeks.
KURT CAMPBELL, CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN SECURITY: Some of the areas where China is operating in cyberspace really go to the very heart of U.S. military capabilities.
STARR: At the time of the attack, the defense secretary never mentioned China.
ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The reality is that the Defense Department is constantly under attack. Elements of the OSD unclassified e-mail system were taken offline yesterday afternoon, due to a detected penetration.
STARR: On Monday, "The Financial Times" of London said the U.S. believed China was responsible. Analysts say the Chinese People's Liberation Party, the PLA, now has secret cells of computer hackers.
CAMPBELL: This is not an organization that, you know, you would be able to go into a building and find their offices and walk in and meet with them and talk with them.
STARR: Earlier this year, the Pentagon's annual report on the Chinese military confirmed the likely existence of such units saying the PLA has established information warfare units to develop viruses to attack enemy computer systems and networks.
(on camera): Military computer systems do get probed every day. But breaching fire walls and getting inside is a much more serious matter, all the more serious if China is embarked on a new effort to learn U.S. military secrets.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Up next, rising outrage over the government of Mexico's policy towards the United States.
Casey Wian will have or report -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Mexico President Felipe Calderon continues to harshly criticize U.S. efforts to crack down on illegal immigration. And now, he says, Mexico does not end of the border -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey Wian will have that report next.
And judge, a federal judge blocking the U.S. government from enforcement of existing immigration laws. We will have that special report.
And rising anger over a public school in New York that critics say may promote a radical Islamist agenda. We will have that story and a great deal more straight ahead. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon, blasted U.S. government enforcement of U.S. immigration laws. President Calderon declared -- quote -- "Where there is a Mexican,there is Mexico."
Calderon said the United States is persecuting Mexican workers in the United States illegally.
And as Casey Wian now reports, Calderon is demanding that the United States stop enforcement of its immigration laws.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): Welcome to Mexico. Welcome to Mexico. Welcome to Mexico. At least that's how Mexican President Felipe Calderon apparently sees it. Calderon delivered his first state of the nation address at the Mexican National Palace over the weekend.
FELIPE CALDERON, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I have said that Mexico doesn't end at the border, that where there is a Mexican, Mexico is there.
WIAN: Calderon received a standing ovation after he criticized recent U.S. law enforcement crackdowns on illegal aliens.
CALDERON (through translator): I again strongly protest the unilateral measures taken by the United States Congress and government, measures that are making the persecution and humiliating treatment of undocumented Mexican workers worse.
WIAN: Calderon also renewed his demand for amnesty for the estimated 6.6 million Mexican citizens living illegally in the United States.
A day later, Calderon's comments were echoed by Los Angeles Catholic Cardinal Roger Mahony. Mahony held a Labor Day mass and blessed the tools of workers in jobs largely held by illegal aliens.
CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, LOS ANGELES ARCHDIOCESE: These wonderful men and women, our immigrant brothers and sisters, go to work not knowing if there's going to be a raid, not knowing if there's going to be separation from them and their children, not knowing what will happen next. All the time, they're helping to build up our society, our economy. And without them, we will fail.
WIAN: Like Mahony, Calderon seems to be taking advantage of every opportunity to criticize U.S. immigration enforcement efforts. Last week, the Mexican president met with recently deported alien Elvira Arellano. He promised to look into the possibility of obtaining a diplomatic visa for Arellano, so she can serve as a peace and justice ambassador and return to the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Calderon appears to be trying to use illegal immigration to unite his politically divided country. On Saturday, opposition lawmakers boycotted his address to the Mexican congress and they also prevented him from delivering the full speech there. Opposition leaders still claim Calderon's party stole Mexico's presidential election -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, Casey, no mention whatsoever in that address to the nation by Calderon of the abject failure of Salinas, Fox, and now Calderon to create jobs. Half the country living in abject poverty. This is an imperialistic statement. It is one that is shameless in taking no responsibility for the conduct of their policy.
This is just -- I can't even begin to comprehend what he's thinking.
WIAN: Yes, he actually did take credit. He says, he claims that Mexico has created 600,000 new jobs since he took office. But he did admit that 40 percent of Mexico's population still lives in poverty; 15 percent still lives in extreme poverty on less than $2 a day -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, at this point, the United States government has no bilateral foreign policy with the government of Mexico that recognizes any of the problems that the nation must deal with, and Felipe Calderon now suggesting that Mexico extends wherever a Mexican citizen, because of the abject poverty, the corruption and incompetence of the Mexican government, is forced to, as they like to say, migrate.
WIAN: Could you imagine if President Bush made that statement about the United States extending to Mexico or anyplace else where there's an American? Imagine the outrage, Lou.
DOBBS: It's extraordinary. Thank you very much, Casey Wian.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight: Do you believe that President Bush should remind Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon, that his nation does end actually at our southern border, yes or no? Please cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We will bring you the results here later in the broadcast.
A federal judge is blocking new rules that would crack down on employers of illegal aliens in this country.
As Lisa Sylvester now reports, that ruling delays the Bush administration's efforts to show that it is finally taking some action to hold corporate employers responsible for the hiring of illegal aliens.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This two-page notice from the Department of Homeland Security was to have been sent out this week. It warns some 140,000 employer that they have workers on their payrolls whose Social Security numbers do not match their names.
As part of a new federal rule, the workers would have 90 days to clear up the discrepancy. If not, the companies would have a choice, fire them or face fines and even criminal penalties.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: People who willfully and consciously hire illegals, knowing that they're doing it and knowing that they're committing crimes in order to do it, including identity theft, those are the people who are going to be targeted for criminal sanctions.
SYLVESTER: But that plan announced last month has been put on ice. A federal judge in San Francisco temporarily stopped the mailings, Judge Maxine Chesney is saying it raises serious questions as to whether the new rule is consistent with statutes.
Critics accuse the court of protecting identity thieves and supporting businesses that employ cheap illegal labor.
MICHAEL CUTLER, FELLOW, IMMIGRATION STUDIES CENTER: If the number does not match the name, then we know that we're dealing with somebody who either made a mistake or is committing a crime. And how a judge could be concerned to shelter that sort of person at a time like this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's absolute, sheer madness.
SYLVESTER: The AFL-CIO and the ACLU filed the lawsuit, arguing it will lead to discrimination. Business groups say the new policy could disrupt certain economic sectors and have an impact on legal workers.
RANDEL JOHNSON, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: We had one company, for example, that received notifications on 500 employees. It had to go to all 500, but of those, only about 30 turned out to be undocumented workers.
SYLVESTER: The Department of Homeland Security responded to the judge's decision, saying -- quote -- "We are disappointed by the delay, but expect to prevail once the court has the benefit of full briefing and argument."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The restraining order will be in place at least until October 1. That is when a hearing has been scheduled -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, in my opinion, there's no clearer statement of the way in which the American people are being victimized by the -- what I consider to be outright corrupt interests. There you have the representation of the ACLU, the AFL-CIO, which obviously doesn't care enough for its own members to represent their interests, but, rather, is taking up the interests of illegal aliens and of course, their illegal employers, and the Chamber of Commerce, the biggest business lobby in the country, all three combining to support U.S. immigration law, border security and the national interests.
I think that the American people, the working men and women of this country have just got to feel their hearts warming as they can the fact.
SYLVESTER: Well, Lou, consider that there are some eight million illegal workers out there. This was an attempt by Homeland Security to actually crack down, essentially to follow the law, to follow what they should have been doing all along. Then you have this federal judge who steps in and keeps them from doing so.
DOBBS: It is almost impossible to gauge the potential for madness in the way in which these vested interests will react and the way in which they have succeeded in gaming and victimizing the American working men and woman and their families. It continues and we will continue to report it.
Thank you very much, Lisa. Nice job. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Albert wrote in to say: "Dear Lou, are all of the e-mails read on your show written by your staff?"
Well, in point of fact, none of them are written by our staff. And Bill in Illinois said: "The no-match letters being sent out are no more targeting a particular ethnic group than the safety checks the police conduct during the holidays. If you're targeting drunk drivers and most of them you pull are over Irish, oh well. If most of the no-match workers are illegals or most of the illegals are Hispanic, oh well."
Well, there's another to consider. It is about numbers that don't match, not about people or even a picture of anyone or any basis by which to make a discriminatory judgment.
Albert in Florida said: "Why doesn't Congress pass a bill that gives any law enforcement officer the right to enforce the present immigration laws? Is that too simple?"
If I may give you a straightforward, simple answer, yes.
We will have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast.
Up next, a controversial new public school in New York City opens. We will have a report on what the uproar is all about.
A racial divide surfacing in a Louisiana community. Were serious charges against six black students racially motivated? Was the outcome of a court case biased? We will have that special report.
And the military, under fire for delays in delivering new equipment to our troops in Iraq, taking unusual steps to speed up the process now. Is it too late? We will have that report and we will tell you how they must deal with the issue.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We have just received here word that Mattel is set to recall seven hundred thousand more toys tomorrow, all of them made in communist China, because they may contain excessive amounts of lead paint. This recall of the toys will be announced tomorrow, according to the Associated Press.
The recall will include Fisher-Price toys and Barbie accessories. Fisher-Price products are primarily for toddlers. Just last month, Mattel recalled more than one million toys made in China, again, because of the contamination of lead paint.
Turning to new concerns about the military's efforts to protect our troops in Iraq, the Pentagon today said it plans to lease Russian cargo aircraft needed to fly urgently needed armored vehicles to our troops in Iraq. Officials decided to use the Russian aircraft after they were admitting significant delays in shipping those mine- resistant vehicles to Iraq.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With its blast-deflecting V-shaped undercarriage, elevated chassis, and super-tough armor, the MRAP is the most survivable vehicle yet devised to protect against roadside bombs, as tests like this one at the Army's Aberdeen Proving Ground show.
By December, almost 4,000 of the mine-resistant ambush-protected vehicles are expected to have rolled off U.S. production lines. But delivery to Iraq is taking a month or two longer, when the Pentagon first predicted 3,500 MRAPs would be there by year's end.
(on camera): One of the features that makes this vehicle so safe also makes it a challenge to get to the battlefield. An MRAP can weigh anywhere between 20 and 30 tons. And that means you can put only two, maybe three at most, on a C-17.
(voice-over): To meet its new goals, the Pentagon aims to fly more than 350 MRAPs a month directly to Iraq. And that will not take not just American C-17s and C-5s, but bigger Russian planes as well. The U.S. is leasing giant Antonov 124s, which can hold up to a half- dozen smaller MRAPs at a time.
MCINTYRE: Brigadier General Mike Brogan is the man in charge of overseeing companies given over $1 billion to ramp up production.
BRIGADIER GENERAL MIKE BROGAN, MARINE CORPS SYSTEMS COMMAND: They're starting to make their numbers. Force production in fact overachieved last month and delivered more than was required.
MCINTYRE: While shipping an MRAP to Iraq by air costs more than $100,000, the need is too urgent to send them by ship.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: As for the question of why contact for Russian aircraft, the short answer is, the Russian Antonov 124 is one of the biggest cargo planes in the world, and it's simply easier to rent one on the few times the U.S. needs them than to build its own fleet.
You may recall, Lou, that the U.S. contracted for a similar plane to bring the Navy EP-3 spy plane back from China back in 2001 when it needed to put all of the pieces of the plane on a single aircraft -- Lou.
DOBBS: Yes. It's great that these vehicles are finally being moved with some urgency to our troops in Iraq. But the fact is a shipping by boat, by ships, these things could be moved in huge quantities and within a month's time. It doesn't make any sense, except in one case. And that is the admission that the Pentagon would have to make that it doesn't have the shipping to do that either.
It doesn't have the aircraft. It doesn't the ships. And we're extraordinarily dependent on the fleets, both in the air and on the seas, of other nations.
(CROSSTALK) MCINTYRE: Well, they are going to be moving -- as the production ramps up, they are going to be putting a lot of the MRAPs on the ships.
But when they did the calculation, they realized that by shipping them there, all of them there, it was just going to take too long to get them there. And they want to get some of these right when they come off the assembly line directly to Iraq.
They plan to have three flights a day, including a lot of U.S. aircraft. But they're supplementing it with these Russian planes, because they wanted to figure out the fastest way to get them there.
They will be transitioning basically to ships, which is much cheaper and much more efficient in the long-term, but not for a couple of months yet.
DOBBS: All right, Jamie, thank you very much -- Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Up next here, one of the country's most respected authorities on Iraq and the Middle East, professor Fouad Ajami, joins me to give us his assessment of the conduct of the war in Iraq. He has literally just returned from a three-week trip to Iraq.
Also, rising protests over a public school in New York City the critics say could promote a radical Islamist agenda. We will have that story.
And charges of racism and miscarriage of justice in a school case that led to attempted murder conviction. Three of the country's best radio talk show hosts join us. We will be talking about that case and a great deal more next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Today, the first day of classes at a controversial new public school in New York City. The Khalil Gibran International Academy teaches Arabic language and culture. Some critics of that school fear it will teach a radical Islamist agenda, as well. Still others question the need for an Arabic school in a city where so many languages are spoken.
And as Bill Tucker now reports, this very special school is funded by taxpayer dollars.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the first day of school at the Khalil Gibran International Academy. At the opening ceremony, the New York City Department of Education shrugged off criticism of the school.
GARTH HARRIES, NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION: If people are fair-minded and balanced about how they see it, they will see the school that we see, which is vibrant, inclusive and focused on excellence in a public education.
TUCKER: implying that opponents are not fair-minded or balanced. The New York Immigration Coalition, an advocacy group for immigrants, hailed the Academy in a press release, proclaiming: "The New York Immigration Coalition is proud to help celebrate the opening of New York City's first Arabic dual-language school, which opened today despite vicious anti-Arabic, anti-Muslim attacks."
Opponents for the Khalil Gibran school had filed Freedom of Information Act requests for lesson plans, course outlines, bibliographies, proposed text lists, the list of the faculty and their qualifications -- none of which has been released. The Education Department says it's still looking for the documents.
JEFFREY WEISENFELD, TRUSTEE, CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK: It is they who have the agenda, not us. We're the taxpayers. We understand the value of democracy and public school as having been, for 230 years, the binding fabric that integrates all of our citizens into the American way.
TUCKER: And that goes to the heart of their argument. One conservative group opposed to what is called "soft jihad in America" has protested against the school.
RABBI ARYEH SPERO, CAUCUS FOR AMERICA: ...know that the purpose of the American public school system was to take a group of Americans from diverse backgrounds, from different countries and to mold them into one thing -- Americans -- to learn about American history and American culture and to identify as Americans.
TUCKER: The Khalil Gibran International Academy is not opposed by the American Civil Liberties Union.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
TUCKER: But the ACLU is opposed to Hebrew school in Broward County, Florida, which would be, like this one, supported with taxpayer money.
Lou, we called the ACLU. I'd love to explain to you the apparent inconsistencies in terms of the intellectual arguments, but they haven't gotten back with an answer on why they support this school.
DOBBS: Well, we can all speculate as to why the ACLU would be pursuing its path.
But of the fact of the matter is, the New York City schools -- there are an estimated 120 languages spoken by the students in the New York City school system.
How in the world is the public school system -- I love the spokesman for the city Department of Education saying that if you're opposed to this idea, you're just wrong-headed...
TUCKER: Exactly.
DOBBS: ...which is pretty typical of bureaucrats and these sort of mindless fools who think that they can just create something on taxpayer dollars out of their brilliance and enlightenment.
But the idea -- I mean does New York City support Jewish schools, Baptist schools, Catholic schools?
TUCKER: No.
DOBBS: Schools based on race or ethnicity?
TUCKER: The answer is...
DOBBS: I mean it's insane.
TOOBIN: The answer is no.
DOBBS: What in the world are they thinking?
TUCKER: I don't know. And the opponents of the school say Arabic is a great language. Make it an elective.
DOBBS: Well, bravo.
TUCKER: Make it an elective. It's a required -- you know, language requirements are required in New York State schools.
DOBBS: I've got to tell you something...
TUCKER: So there's a better solution than coming up with a school like this.
DOBBS: This, you know, this country sometimes -- we can come up with some doozies. But this city, sometimes, is in a league all of its own.
Thank you very much.
Bill Tucker.
Accusations of racism are dividing a small Louisiana community. Charges have been reduced from attempted murder for two of six African-American students who are accused of beating a white classmate. Another student already faces at least 20 years in prison.
All of this happening in the small town of Jena, Louisiana. The high school has a long and troubled history of racial incidents.
And as Susan Roesgen now reports, many of the town's 3,000 residents are questioning the fairness of the charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
SUSAN ROESGEN, GULF COAST CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Marcus Jones is outraged and frightened. His son, 17-year-old Mychal Bell, has been found guilty of aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated battery -- charges that could send him to prison for more than 20 years -- a chain of events that all began under a tree at Jena High School.
Like the town itself, the school is mostly white, and the unwritten rule was that the tree was a meeting place for white students only. But last year several black students sat under the tree, and the next day three nooses hung from the branches. To the black community, the message was clear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was very offended. Because that's a racial slur against us.
ROESGEN: But some white residents said it was no big deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think a couple boys made a mistake. You know, and I think it's all being blown out of proportion.
ROESGEN: From there, tension between white and black students escalated. In November, a fire destroyed part of the school. Police said it was arson. Many in town suspect it was connected to the worsening race relations.
Then in December, a white student, Justin Barker, was knocked unconscious and kicked as he lay on the ground. Some said Barker provoked the fight. But in an exclusive interview, his parents told us Justin didn't do anything and they believe he could have been killed.
KELLI BARKER, MOTHER OF JUSTIN BARKER: Several lacerations on both sides. Both ears was kind of really damaged and both eyes. His right eye was the worst. It had blood clots in it.
ROESGEN: These are pictures taken of Justin's face by the police department at the hospital. Justin was released the same day and attended a school ceremony that very night.
A few days later, six black classmates were charged with attempted murder. Carwyn Jones, Bryant Purvis, Robert Bailey, Jr. And Theodore Shaw all face the prospect of life in prison. A fifth teenager, whose name hasn't been released, is charged with attempted murder as a juvenile. And in June, the sixth teenager, Mychal Bell, was found guilty of aggravated battery.
It took an all-white jury just three hours to reach the verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the blacks do not stand a chance. They throw them away just like that.
ROESGEN: The local district attorney plans to pursue the charges against the other five boys. D.A. Reed Walters released a written statement after the incident last year saying he had never charged anyone based on who they are.
But the boys' parents don't believe that any of them will get a fair trial. CASEPTALA BAILEY, MOTHER OF ROBERT BAILEY: The D.A. had come up with these horrendous charges -- outrageous charges or whatever. And he just felt that since this is his -- the way that he has been doing things for years to the black people, that this is just something that we were going to allow him to roll over us and let it happen.
ROESGEN: Another mother, Tina Jones, says the D.A. offered to drop the charges against her son if he would testify against the others. Her son refused.
(on camera): Do you think your son should have agreed to that plea deal?
TINA JONES, MOTHER OF BRYANT PURVIS: No. If he didn't see who hit him, that's a risk we'll have to take, you know?
ROESGEN: A risk that could mean life in prison.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
DOBBS: Susan Roesgen reporting from Jena, Louisiana.
We'll have much more on this story here later.
This afternoon, charges were reduced for two of those boys, Carwyn Jones and Theodore Shaw. But both still face the prospect of more than 20 years in prison. A judge still to decide whether Mychal Bell will be given a new trial.
We'll have more on the Jena 6 case, as it is now being called, in "OUT IN THE OPEN" tonight. "Jena 6: Miscarriage of Justice," a special edition of "OUT IN THE OPEN" at 8:00 p.m. here on CNN.
Up next in this broadcast, we'll discuss the case with three of the country's top radio talk show hosts.
Later, out of the country's leading authorities on Iraq and the Middle East, Professor Fouad Ajami, joins me, after spending three weeks in Iraq. He's just returned.
And we will return in just one moment.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the country's top radio talk show hosts in the country.
Washington, D.C.'s Joe Madison, WOL and X.M. Radio.
Here in New York, Steve Malzberg, WOR Radio network.
In Chicago, Steven Cochran of WGN Radio. This program, by the way, being simulcast over WGN Radio.
So we're going to ask you the first question, Steve.
STEVE COCHRAN, WGN IN CHICAGO: Boy, this is a big break for you, Lou, being on G.N.
(LAUGHTER)
COCHRAN: I hope you recognize and respect that.
DOBBS: Well, we are flattered and pleased, as always.
And always great to have you with us.
COCHRAN: Thank you, sir.
DOBBS: Let's turn to John McCain.
And if we can just show everybody and listen in as John McCain is asked a question in New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: People will judge -- will judge by their vigor and the enthusiasm associated with our campaign. Every campaign I've ever been in my life, I've out campaigned all of my opponents and I'm confident that I will.
And thanks for the question, you little jerk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Senator McCain responding, of course, to the question about whether he had been worried about being debilitated or dying in office because of his age.
COCHRAN: Well, you know, the thing is, Lou, the vigor and enthusiasm are not anything you'd associate with Senator McCain anytime in the recent past.
(LAUGHTER)
COCHRAN: He has all the -- you remember that Tim Conway character -- was it Dorf -- on the old "Carol Burnett Show?"
That's about how fast...
DOBBS: That's before my time, Steve.
COCHRAN: Yes, I'm sure it is.
(LAUGHTER)
COCHRAN: But that's about how fast Senator McCain's been moving.
However, that sense of humor he just showed there is key. And I don't think he's shown enough of it. He's one of the great guests on late night talk shows and any panel show. And he's been way too buttoned up.
And if you remember, Bob Dole never got funnier until he -- after he lost the election. And then suddenly he was America's grandpa.
DOBBS: Yes.
COCHRAN: A lot of these guys are over managed and over programmed and you don't see their real side.
DOBBS: And the idea that he was insulting the young gentlemen...
COCHRAN: The punk.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: He's a punk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jerk.
DOBBS: I don't think he's going to get much sympathy here.
Joe Madison, let's turn to Jena, Louisiana. The Jena 6, as Tony Brown, I believe, is the first to have assigned that description of these young fellows.
JOE MADISON, X.M. RADIO: Yes.
DOBBS: What's your take?
MADISON: Well, my take -- we've been on that for about six months. And, quite candidly, this is a serious miscarriage of justice.
I'll jump straight to the solution. I think the governor should pardon Mychal Bell immediately and I think the governor should also appoint an independent prosecutor to go in and really reexamine the facts of this case.
What you don't hear people talking about is that the D.A. actually went into the school when the black students demonstrated after the nooses were hung. And they had asked the principal if they had permission to sit under the tree. And the principal told them, yes, you can sit anywhere that you want. And that's when the nooses showed up the next day.
The D.A. actually went into the school, told the black students to go back to class and if they didn't -- he pulled out a pen, Lou, and said: "I can ruin all your lives. Cut this protest out. And I can do it with a stroke of a pen."
DOBBS: Right.
MADISON: Well, he's obviously going to do it with six. And some of these young men had bails so high that they had to spend months in jail, and they weren't hardly a flight risk. Very poor families. This is a tragedy...
MALZBERG: All right, Joe...
MADISON: ...a travesty.
MALZBERG: Joe, I haven't been familiar with the day to day testimony of the individual cases involved. But there's a white young man who was beaten severely.
MADISON: Oh, no...
MALZBERG: (INAUDIBLE)...
MADISON: ...he wasn't beaten severely.
MALZBERG: He wasn't beaten severely?
MADISON: No, he wasn't.
MALZBERG: Those pictures that we saw...
MADISON: No, he was not.
MALZBERG: ...in the report prior to this break (INAUDIBLE)...
MADISON: He went to a party the next day.
MALZBERG: Joe, did you see the pictures, Joe, that the police took, Joe?
MADISON: Excuse me, like you said, you aren't even -- you didn't even know about the case...
MALZBERG: Joe, were the pictures wrong?
MADISON: So you're arguing with -- Steve, you're arguing with somebody who's followed this for six months.
MALZBERG: Joe, you're great, I'm not.
Fine.
MADISON: And I woman...
MALZBERG: But there's a white family...
MADISON: And I am saying to you...
MALZBERG: ...a white gentleman who was beaten up...
MADISON: He was...
MALZBERG: ...and somebody has to be held accountable.
MADISON: He was released from the hospital the next day, went to an event and a party.
MALZBERG: Right. So nothing happened.
MADISON: Well, I'm just stating the facts.
MALZBERG: None of these young men did anything.
MADISON: I'm just...
COCHRAN: Listen, (INAUDIBLE) here, fellows.
MADISON: ...just don't -- don't -- I'm just stating facts.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: This is a bad situation.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: But not 20 years of life.
COCHRAN: It's a very bad situation, but there's way too many people...
MADISON: You don't put somebody...
COCHRAN: ...there is way too many people involved here who could have stopped this before it got this far. There's a larger social issue here.
MADISON: Um-hmm.
COCHRAN: Where are the parents on both sides?
What kind of absentee crap is this where the parents on both sides had no handle on the situation?
DOBBS: Yes.
COCHRAN: By the way, including the Jena 6, where these kids have been involved in terrible contact -- contact and conduct before.
Obviously, there's racism involved here.
Where are the parents for these kids that put the nooses up?
This whole town needs a bath. MADISON: And (INAUDIBLE)...
COCHRAN: And hopefully this process will have it.
But these...
(CROSSTALK)
COCHRAN: But the Jena 6...
MALZBERG: Somebody's got to pay.
COCHRAN: ...kids and their families...
MALZBERG: Somebody's got to pay...
COCHRAN: ...have something to an for, as well.
MALZBERG: Well, yes. But that's the social mumbo jumbo. Somebody's got to pay.
MADISON: But not 20 years of a kid's life.
MALZBERG: Somebody's got to pay for beating up that kid.
MADISON: Twenty...
DOBBS: Well, let me -- let me just say...
MADISON: Twenty years, Steve?
DOBBS: wait just a second.
MADISON: Twenty years?
MALZBERG: Whatever the evidence shows, Joe.
DOBBS: Gentlemen, let me just say...
MADISON: Oh, please.
DOBBS: And I think that Steve Cochran is getting to the point. And this is a community of 3,000 people. Now, I was raised in a little town of about 2,500 people. Nothing like this could go on, at least in the town I was raised in, without everyone in that community knowing exactly what transpired, who was behind it...
COCHRAN: Absolutely.
DOBBS: And the fact that the principal said you can sit under a tree, I mean why should that question even have to be asked in 2007?
MADISON: Because -- that's absolutely right.
DOBBS: But, secondly, where in the world was the principal, the teachers, the parents, as Steve Cochran says?
How you can let young men and women get to this point in this community?
(CROSSTALK)
COCHRAN: Because there's a fix in the community. That's what's going to cure this sore.
MADISON: It's the... COCHRAN: That's what's going to help the community. And that's what this community ought to be worried about, not TV cameras, not their larger image. They need to process this case. There needs to be a fair and a just trial here.
But to go forward, this community needs to heal. And the way to heal is for everybody to step up and take responsibility...
MADISON: You are...
COCHRAN: ...for missing it here.
MADISON: Gentlemen, I'm sorry.
You're going to have to move that trial -- a change of venue.
DOBBS: Oh, I quite...
MADISON: You will not get a fair trial...
DOBBS: Joe...
MADISON: ...in that city.
DOBBS: By the way, the jury in this case was all white.
MADISON: Three hours and that was it.
DOBBS: And the fact of the matter is, that isn't the way this country works. And it's not going to work in Jena, Louisiana. It's not going to work anywhere in the United States.
And I don't think I know of anybody in the entire country who would want it to work that way, right, Steve?
MALZBERG: Well, absolutely not...
MADISON: Absolutely.
MALZBERG: ...except O.J. Simpson had an all black jury.
DOBBS: Well, I'm not -- I don't...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: You know, frankly...
MALZBERG: I mean it happens.
COCHRAN: But that's just...
(CROSSTALK)
COCHRAN: I mean talk about muddying the water.
(CROSSTALK) DOBBS: ...and that sordid mess. You know I...
COCHRAN: You know...
MADISON: Oh, Steve.
DOBBS: But...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: let's stay with what we've got. We've got enough on our plates to handle in this country right now.
MADISON: Amen.
DOBBS: Mexico -- Felipe Calderon. Mexico doesn't end at its borders.
What do you think, Steve?
COCHRAN: Well, you know, the disconnect here is stunning to me. President Calderon talking about all the jobs he's created and then having no answer to why people don't want to stay and take them if, in fact, they've been created.
Until the Mexican government takes responsibility for fixing their country, they don't need to talk about annexing the United States of America.
DOBBS: Joe Madison?
COCHRAN: They are part of the problem. They are not part of the solution.
MADISON: Oh, god. And you said it earlier. That -- what an imperialistic statement. If Bush had said that, or any president, all hell would have broke loose around the world.
MALZBERG: Well, where is President Bush answering that statement and saying that's nonsense and that's not the way of the world?
Unless maybe he agrees with it, unfortunately.
MADISON: And it's cold -- it's a code word for North American Union.
MALZBERG: Absolutely. Absolutely.
DOBBS: Steve Cochran, Steve Malzberg, Joe Madison.
Gentlemen, thanks for being here.
COCHRAN: Thank you, sir.
DOBBS: All the best.
MADISON: Thank you.
DOBBS: We'll talk soon.
Up next, we'll be talking with one of the world's leading authorities on Iraq and the Middle East about Iraq's future. Professor Fouad Ajami joins me here next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining us now is one of the nation's leading authorities on Iraq and the Middle East, Professor Fouad Ajami, professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins University, author of the book, "The Foreigner's Gift."
Professor Ajami has just returned from a three-week visit to Iraq. He met with the top U.S. and Iraqi officials.
Professor, good to have you here, as always.
PROF. FOUAD AJAMI, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY, AUTHOR, "THE FOREIGNER'S GIFT": Thank you very much, Lou, for having me.
DOBBS: Three weeks. I know it's your ninth trip there.
AJAMI: Right.
DOBBS: You met with everyone from General Petraeus to Al-Maliki, Talabani.
AJAMI: Right.
DOBBS: Give us your thoughts.
AJAMI: Well, I wish I wasn't teaching, because I would have stayed, to be honest with you. I mean such is my belief in this American project in Iraq. And I returned with, you know, more hope than I had when I went to Iraq.
It's always the case -- this case for me. I go to Iraq full of doubt. I find some unbelievable evidence of optimism. And we have an incredible soldier on the ground in the person of General Petraeus. We have a very able diplomat in the person of Ambassador Crocker.
They will report to the nation next week. They will tell us that the surge has worked. They will tell us that national reconciliation among the Iraq leaders is not -- hasn't fared as well. But they will bring us some hope that this engagement, this project in Iraq, will not come to grief.
DOBBS: The General Accountability Office today reporting that on 11 of 18 benchmarks, U.S. policy has failed.
AJAMI: Well, I surely wouldn't want the U.S. Congress to be given the same test, by the way, since your report about the dysfunctional Congress we have. These are very artificial benchmarks. But people really, in a way, I think they're judging the Iraqis too harshly and too severely.
This is a country in the throes of a civ -- of a war. And this is also a country hunted down, in many ways, cornered by its neighbors. You have the -- the neighboring Arab states exporting all troubles onto Iraq's side...
DOBBS: Syria. Iran.
AJAMI: Syria. Iran. The Gulf countries, whose money and whose jihadists find their way to Iraq.
So I don't want to -- I wouldn't want to proceed on this benchmark.
I'll tell you two things that that are very remarkable.
The Mahdi Army of Muqtada al-Sadr is really beaten. When Muqtada al-Sadr says he wants a six month cease-fire, it's because he has lost the war.
And then the Sunnis in the Anbar Province, where President Bush visited, the Sunni Arabs have turned away from al Qaeda and have turned away from the insurgency.
DOBBS: And the Sunnis, of course, a very, very small minority of the population.
AJAMI: Absolutely.
DOBBS: But at the same time, we have Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Iran saying it's a -- that there is going to be a worsening power vacuum, that Iran, without apology or in any way a veil over it, says it will fill that -- that power void.
AJAMI: Lou, you've had me here before. I will come back again. The idea that Iran could claim Iraq for itself is ludicrous. I mean the Iraqis are a tough breed. Iraq has its own sense of nationalism. And the most difficult equation -- the most difficult part of the equation for the Iranians in Iraq are the Shia of Iraq. They don't want to be students of Iran. They don't see themselves as pawns of the Iranians.
This is a country of 25 million people. They have their own wealth, they have their own resources. And the claim by Ahmadinejad is just of a piece with Ahmadinejad's own insanity, by and large.
DOBBS: His insanity, does it include his reference to the fact that Saudi Arabia would be his partner in filling that void?
AJAMI: Well, Saudi Arabia is not coming into Iraq, I assure you. The idea that the Saudis will come to the rescue in the Sunni Arabs of Iraq is a legend. And the Iraqis -- every single Iraqi Sunni Arab leader I talked to understands that.
DOBBS: The test for me is how soon and how many of our troops we can bring home.
AJAMI: Well, I think you're absolutely right. Your politics on the war are not different from mine in that way. We want to see our country succeed in Iraq. We want our troops back. And we have children there. We have relatives there. We have -- you know, we have our country invested there and we want this project to come to a good outcome.
DOBBS: Your best assessment?
Withdrawal soon?
AJAMI: I don't think -- I don't think that's in the cards. I don't think there's a substantial American withdrawal. I think that it's probably about a year or so away.
DOBBS: Professor Ajami, thank you for being here.
Fouad Ajami joins us next Tuesday evening, on the eve of -- on the evening of General David Petraeus' testimony to Congress on the progress, or lack of it, on the war in Iraq.
AJAMI: (INAUDIBLE).
DOBBS: Thank you.
Coming up at the top of the hour here, "THE SITUATION ROOM," Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Thanks, Lou.
A massive search underway in Western Nevada for wealthy adventurer Steve Fossett. He took off in his plane yesterday, hasn't been seen or heard from since. We'll update you on what's going on.
Presidential hopeful John McCain versus a 16-year-old -- we're going to tell you why the Republican senator called the high schooler "a little jerk."
And a lot of people aren't laughing at what Jerry Lewis said in his annual telethon.
All that, Lou, coming up, and a lot more, in "THE SITUATION ROOM".
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf.
Coming up here next, the results of our poll.
Stay with us.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight -- 99 percent of you say President Bush should remind Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon, that his nation does end at our southern border.
We thank you for being with us tonight.
Join us here tomorrow when Governor Matt Blunt of Missouri joins us.
He's cracking down on illegal immigration because your federal government won't.
For all of us, thanks for watching.
Good night from New York.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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