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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Interview With Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions; Government Cover- Up Over New U.S. Embassy in Iraq?
Aired September 18, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, one state's effort to deal with illegal immigration and border security on its own, it appears to be working. We will have a special report.
Also, an escalating national crisis over meth smuggling by Mexican drug cartels. Nearly half of the counties in this country say meth is the number one drug problem.
And an astonishing flip-flop by corporate America on dangerous imports. Multinational corporations are demanding stronger government safety and regulations. You could pay the bill on that. We will tell you all about it.
Also among my guests, Senator Jeff Sessions. He's a leading opponent of congressional efforts to revive the so-called comprehensive immigration reform.
All that and much more straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Tuesday, September 18.
Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
We begin tonight with startling new charges of a cover-up inside the Bush administration to protect the White House from embarrassment. Congressional Democrats say the State Department's inspector general failed to investigate accusations of serious misconduct by U.S. government officials in Iraq.
Meanwhile, congressional investigators are slamming the Department of Homeland Security. Those investigators say DHS all but cheated in tests to determine the effectiveness of radiation-detection equipment.
First, Ed Henry reports from the White House. Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, as the State Department's inspector general, Howard Krongard is supposed to promote honesty in government, but Democrats are now raising questions about whether he covered up big problems at the largest embassy in the world.
And that is ratcheting up the already tense relations between this White House and Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): The new U.S. embassy in Iraq comes with a soaring price tag, nearly $600 million and mounting allegations, too. Democrat Henry Waxman is probing whether the State Department's inspector general blocked fraud investigations to protect the White House from embarrassment over the embassy's construction, including charges of security lapses at the embassy in Baghdad and allegations that an unnamed security firm was illegally smuggling weapons into Iraq.
SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We will, of course, provide answers to Congressman Waxman. I can't provide any further answer, any more detailed answer than that without our guys having had a chance to take a look at the letter.
HENRY: White House spokeswoman Dana Perino also wouldn't comment on the latest charges, but was ready to push back at the mounting Democratic investigations.
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Since July 25, we have made an additional 140,000 pages of documents available to the Congress. Over 100 people have testified or been interviewed.
HENRY: But the president has blocked key White House documents from being turned over, especially memos that may shed light on former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' role in the U.S. attorneys controversy.
Democrats are trying to use the president's push for quick confirmation of Attorney General Nominee Michael Mukasey as leverage to get these documents.
PERINO: These very senators are the ones who said that we need to have Justice Department leadership. They have a person in front of them now that, by any reading of the reaction, everyone agrees that he would be a good attorney general. He should not be held hostage to politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Senator Patrick Leahy also trying to get documents over controversial issues such as domestic surveillance, but Democrats are very unlikely to get those documents from the White House, and it will be hard for them to block Mukasey's nomination, in part because of the very positive statements some Democrats have already made about him and also because it may backfire politically if all of a sudden it looks like they are obstructing -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Ed Henry. Thanks, Ed.
Now, there are also charges tonight that the Department of Homeland Security helped contractors pass government tests on new equipment to detect radiation at our ports. Now, the outcome of those tests could determine whether the federal government spends more than $1 billion on new radiation detectors.
Jeanne Meserve has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Government testing on the new machines was biased, according to the Government Accountability Office, and did not provide an objective and rigorous assessment of whether the expensive machines work well enough to buy them.
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: If we're talking about catastrophic problems for this country, I would hope we get it right. Remember, we have to be right 100 percent of the time. The terrorist only has to be right once. Now, that's not nuclear science. That's just common sense. Don't you agree with me?
MESERVE: The portals now in use can't tell the difference between a nuclear bomb and kitty litter. The new portals are supposed to do that,, but GAO says contractors were given data about the materials their machines would screen for and could readjust their systems before the real tests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We disagree.
MESERVE: The Department of Homeland Security says contractors were not directly involved in the testing and promises the machines will be subjected to a rigorous and comprehensive evaluation.
Outside experts say, I hope so.
RANDALL LARSEN, HOMELAND SECURITY EXPERT: Before I spend $1.2 billion, I would like to know the system works. It sounds like to me GAO has some serious questions that need to be answered.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: DHS has formed an independent review panel to assess the testing of the new machines. Congressman John Dingell calls that an end run. He wants the tests done again, but DHS says doing that would delay deployment by a year-and-a-half and put the country at risk -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: A year-and-a-half to retest. It also seems that radiation detection is way too important to be vague about, Jeanne.
MESERVE: Yes, it is clearly one of the most critical areas for the country to address, and there are some vulnerabilities we're told in the system that's in place now. This is an effort by the department to fix it, but, of course, the big question, does this fix it? And we just don't appear to have the true answer to that yet.
PILGRIM: And it's a very important question to have the answer to.
Thanks very much, Jeanne Meserve. Well, in Iraq, insurgents today killed three more of our troops. All three were killed in Diyala Province, north of Baghdad, in a bomb attack. Two other troops were killed in non-combat incidents; 45 of our troops have been killed so far in Iraq this month; 3,787 of our troops have been killed since the war began, 27,507 troops wounded, 12,108 seriously.
While the Bush administration focuses on the war in Iraq, intelligence officials are expressing rising concern about spying by Russia and communist China. Russia and Chinese spies are aggressively trying to steal U.S. secrets. Those secrets could help the Russian and Chinese militaries in any conflict with this country.
Kelli Arena has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As if al Qaeda in Iraq weren't enough, let's add our Cold War adversaries back into the mix. Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell says Russia and China are aggressively spying on the United States, threatening national security. In his words, their efforts are approaching Cold War levels.
PETER ZEIHAN, STRATFOR.COM: Both in the case of Russia and China, you have got increasing capability married to an increasing desire for their own political purposes to get information from the United States.
ARENA: So what's China after? Well, experts say technology for its businesses and military. Dozens of Chinese nationals have been charged with passing secrets while living in the United States, most recently former defense engineer Chi Mak.
The FBI even went so far as to place ads in Chinese-language newspapers asking for tips on so-called subversive elements.
RUDY GUERIN, FORMER FBI COUNTERINTELLIGENCE: It's not just Washington and New York and Los Angeles. It's everywhere. It's in all 50 states, and wherever the research and development is, that's where you will find the threat.
ARENA: As for Russia, experts say it wants to regain superpower status. To do that, they say its president, a former KGB operative, is focusing mightily on rebuilding the country's intelligence arm.
ZEIHAN: They believe that they are dealing with state survival.
ARENA: Experts say the war on terror has shifted resources away from counterintelligence, and we're paying the price. The most recent espionage report to Congress states that spying has eroded the U.S. military's advantage and undercut the U.S. economy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: We did reach out to the Russian Embassy for comment, but calls there were not returned. A Chinese Embassy spokesman says that allegations of spying are totally groundless -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Kelli, very disturbing report -- Kelli arena.
Still to come, can states deal with our illegal immigration crisis on their owns?
Well, Casey Wian will have the story -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, in Arizona tonight, the crackdown on illegal immigration appears to be working. There's new evidence that a growing number of illegal aliens are simply deciding to return across the border to Mexico -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Casey. That report is coming up.
Also, Mexican drug cartels are flooding the country with meth, and the meth is more deadly than ever. We will have a special report.
And a student Tasered, now, was it a case of excessive force or was the police action justified? We will show you the video and let you decide.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARENA: Mexico is a leading supplier of most illegal drugs in the United States, and now it's stepping up its production of methamphetamine. Meth production, once the domain of small domestic labs across the United States, has been all but taken over by Mexican drug cartels.
And as Lisa Sylvester reports, government officials now believe more than three-quarters of the meth used in this country comes from Mexican cartels.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are called superlabs, factories in Mexico churning out methamphetamine for shipment to the United States. They are operated by Mexican criminal drug cartels. The meth is stronger, more potent and deadlier than meth produced in the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The majority of methamphetamine used in the United States comes from these larger labs, which we believe are increasingly operating in Mexico.
SYLVESTER: A Senate committee is looking at ways to break the supply chain. The Combat Meth Act enacted last year made it harder to buy cold medicines with pseudoephedrine, a key ingredient in meth. That's reduced the number of domestic mom-and-pop labs, but meth imports have soared; 80 percent of the meth sold in the United States comes across the southern border from Mexico. It finds its ways to urban and rural American communities.
SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), MONTANA: The National Association of Counties found that meth is the number one illegal drug problem for 47 percent of the counties in the country.
SYLVESTER: Mexico has sent troops to the border to try to cripple the drug trade. That has caused the price of methamphetamine to increase, but enforcement experts say the drug dealers easily adapt moving into other countries.
CHRISTY MCCAMPBELL, STATE DEPARTMENT: I was down in Guatemala not too long ago. They didn't even really know about methamphetamine. That's not an issue they deal with, but we're warning them that it's on its way.
SYLVESTER: Despite enforcement efforts, the use of meth is gaining popularity among several groups, including women and teens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Mexico has announced plans to stop importing pseudoephedrine and ephedrine into that country by January of next year, and by January of 2009, stores there will have to deplete all remaining supplies so there will be no product left in Mexico -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester. Thanks, Lisa.
A notorious Mexican drug lord has pleaded guilty to charges that carry a mandatory life sentence. Now the drug trafficker admitted in a U.S. court that he helped run a cartel that brought hundreds of tons of cocaine and marijuana into the United States. He pleaded to charges of running a criminal enterprise and conspiracy to launder money.
Arizona continues its efforts to cope with the federal government's failure to solve the nation's illegal immigration crisis. And that state's crackdown may be working.
As Casey Wian reports, there is evidence illegal aliens are beginning to leave Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): The self-proclaimed toughest sheriff in America, Joe Arpaio, is making life tough for illegal aliens in Maricopa, Arizona. For several months, Arpaio has been helping federal and county authorities arrest and prosecute illegal aliens.
Now a dozen of his prisoner, transport and food trucks advertise a phone hot line to report suspected immigration law violators and the international symbol for do not enter symbol with an added word, illegally.
JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: So, I'm hoping, with all the intelligence we receive with this hot line, that we are going to get more information and be able to solve this illegal immigration problem at least through law enforcement and through public awareness, and if they violate the law, they are going to jail. WIAN: Arpaio says the hot line has received nearly 2,000 calls, yielded dozens of arrests and led to the discovery of an alien- smuggling drop house in just two months.
Immigrant rights groups accuse Arpaio of -- quote -- "terrorizing the Hispanic community," which the sheriff denies, saying he's targeting all illegal aliens, not just Hispanics.
Meanwhile, new state laws will take effect this week, including one that will require Arizona residents to provide proof of legal residency before they can receive state welfare benefits. Another will allow illegal aliens suspected of a serious felony, ranging from repeat drunk driving to murder, to be held without bail, and in January the state will begin harshly punishing employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.
ELIAS BERMUDEZ, IMMIGRANTS WITHOUT BORDERS: A waste of time, a waste of energy, a waste of state resources. It is not going to solve the problem of illegal immigration. It is only going to create more problems. As we speak, there are people leaving our state because of these laws that are coming into effect at the rate of 100 a day, on their own, of course. Another 100 is being arrested and deported by law enforcement officials.
WIAN: The Mexican Consulate in Tucson confirms it has received an increase in the number of applications from students wanting to return to school in Mexico.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Border security activists also say they have seen more vehicles loaded with appliances and other personal effects heading south into Mexico.
Arizona's crackdown could mark the beginning of what many believe is one key component of the solution to the nation's illegal immigration crisis, self-deportation -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Sounds like a good idea. Thanks very much, Casey Wian.
Well, the town of Riverside, New Jersey, is voluntarily rescinding its crackdown on illegal immigration. Town officials say Riverside can't afford to fight lawsuits filed against the ordinance. Earlier this year, a judge found a similar ordinance in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, found it unconstitutional.
Six local municipalities around the country currently have ordinances that punish anyone who hires or rents to illegal aliens.
Time now for some of your e-mails.
And Patti in Florida wrote: "Lou Dobbs, get well soon. America needs you."
As we reported last night, Lou had a tonsillectomy, and we're happy to tell you he's doing fine and will return soon. Maria in California wrote about plans for a day labor center in Washington: "For $500,000, what are they planing on doing with the day labor site? Gold-plate the walls?"
And Clarence in Kentucky wrote to us: "Let me guess. These laborers who use the day labor centers, they wouldn't be illegal immigrants, would they?"
We will have more of your e-mails a little bit later in the broadcast.
Also coming up, business asking government for more regulation. We will have a special report on this strange turn of events.
And did the university of Florida police go too far in their efforts to quiet a student at John Kerry's speech? We will have a live report. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Dole is recalling thousands of bags of lettuce after E. coli was discovered in a package of salad mix. Now the contaminated bags of Dole's Hearts Delight salad mix found in Canada. The latest recall affects packages sold in nine states and Canada. The packages have a best if used by date of September 19, 2007. So far, no illnesses have been reported.
Now, last year three people were killed and hundreds others sickened after eating E. coli-contaminated spinach.
For years, multinational corporations have lobbied to take government out of business. Companies demanded trade policies allowing them into cheap labor markets all over the world, but now as the crisis intensifies over the quality of imported products, industry is calling for stronger government regulations.
As Christine Romans reports, big business may be looking for a way to shift responsibility for the product safety.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Imported food and ingredients need better government oversight, this from the nation's largest grocery food association. The Grocery Manufacturers Association favors new regulations for product tests and checks on foreign suppliers and a beefed-up Food and Drug Administration.
CAL DOOLEY, GROCERY MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION: We think that we can even make our food supply safer, and those imported products safer, but we're asking for the appropriate role of government to be our partners in meeting the needs of consumers.
ROMANS: It's a strange twist on the usual refrain from business that government regulations are burdensome and industry should be left alone. But powerful industries are reeling from tainted pet food, faulty tires, toxic toothpaste and dangerous toys. Millions of recalled products later, the industry now favors tighter safety standards and even:
JERRY STORCH, CEO, TOYS 'R' US: We also believe a strong, well- financed CPSC is need.
ROMANS: An agency, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, whose manpower has been cut in half since the 1980s at the same time imports from China and elsewhere have exploded. Multinational corporations finding the global, far-flung production chain they lobbied for may have become a liability.
Attorney Jeffrey Killino sued over faulty Chinese-made tires and has filed a class-action against Mattel.
JEFFREY KILLINO, ATTORNEY: The manufacturers have always been about making profit, and when it was to suit their profitability to have minimal regulations, outsourced production to China and gain excess profits, that was fine by them.
ROMANS: Now he says they want oversight only to restore confidence in their products and protect future profits.
OMB Watch associates for what it calls responsible regulation.
RICK MELBERTH, OMB WATCH: They are looking for the pathway that makes it easiest for them to control the outcome.
ROMANS: He says industry hopes to shape regulation to protect itself from lawsuits and potentially more onerous rules down the road.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And who pays for new testing and regulation? In some cases, you will. Consider toys. Toy industry analysts say the toys are already made for this holiday season, but next year a 10 percent price hike could hit consumers, the largest in years, as someone, us, pays for higher standards.
PILGRIM: Well, as they all talk about it, the consumer pays more. That's the bottom line.
That's very much, Christine Romans.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you believe increased government regulation of imports will actually increase import safety, yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We will bring you the results later in the broadcast.
The Federal Reserve took aggressive action today, cutting a key interest rate to 4.75 percent. It's a move that could benefit our struggling middle class. The Fed's action could help ease the crunch on homeowners with adjustable-rate mortgages. Wall Street liked the cut. The Dow closed up more than 335 points. And a new poll says most Americans believe the economy is in good shape, but by a smaller margin than earlier in the year.
Now, 54 percent say the economy is good, but back in January, more than 60 percent felt that way.
Coming up, Senator Jeff Sessions will join me. He's a leading opponent of the amnesty lobby's efforts to reintroduce so-called comprehensive immigration reform in Congress.
New poll numbers on whether the Bush administration's P.R. offensive to sell its Iraq strategy is working.
And did police use excessive force when they Tasered a student in an event attended by Senator John Kerry?
Senator Hillary Clinton has a new plan to reform our health care system. What do voters think? Three top radio show hosts will be here to talk about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Accusations tonight over the possible use of excessive force at a political event at the University of Florida. Now, in front of cameras, police officers used an electronic stun gun on a screaming student because he refused to stop questioning former presidential candidate Senator John Kerry.
As John Zarrella reports, many are questioning the police use of force.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): It began innocently enough, University of Florida student Andrew Meyer asking challenging questions of Senator John Kerry at a campus forum.
But after being told he had the floor long enough, Meyer wouldn't let up his questioning. Campus police were called in. As Meyer was being subdued and removed, police Tasered him.
ANDREW MEYER, STUDENT: Don't Tase me, bro. Don't Tase me.
ZARRELLA: The woman who gave CNN this video says she was ahead of Meyer in line to ask questions. He gave her his camera and asked her to shoot video of him questioning Kerry. Meyer was arrested. He was released this afternoon from the county jail. Unlike last night, he had nothing to say.
QUESTION: Was this a horrible experience for you?
ZARRELLA: At Emerson Hall on the university campus, about 100 students staged a vocal but peaceful sit-in protesting what they called an attack on free speech and Meyer's treatment.
SHEALLAH PALMER, STUDENT: I didn't sign up to go see a Kerry speech and then ended up -- end up seeing some guy being Tasered and shaking in the back of the room. ZARRELLA: Not all students agreed.
SCOTT MARKOWITZ, STUDENT: I thought he got what he had coming to him.
ZARRELLA (on camera): You don't think the police did anything wrong, then?
MARKOWITZ: No. I think, if it was me, I would have Tasered him long before they did.
ZARRELLA: Just upstairs, university president Bernie Machen announced the two officers involved were placed on paid leave and that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement had been asked to investigate.
Like the students, Machen wants answers.
BERNIE MACHEN, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA: Well, I think they are concerned about the same things that I'm concerned about. This is a university. We want to have civil discourse, and that's what we're all about.
ZARRELLA: In the wake of Virginia Tech, Machen says the university will not now change its policy allowing police to carry tasers. Police are recommending Meyer face charges of resisting arrest with violence and disorderly conduct. The state attorney is not expected to decide on whether to file charges until the investigation is complete. Meyer has his own Web site where he says he's an aspiring journalist who has won student journalism awards. He has written for the South Florida "Sun-Sentinel".
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ZARRELLA: Now Senator Kerry, in a statement, says that in his 37 years, he's never had a dialogue end this way and that he could have ended the situation without interruption. He also said in that statement that he did not know the young man had been tasered -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: John, have the police changed their taser policy after this incident?
Any statement to that effect?
ZARRELLA: No, right -- no, no. Right now what they're saying is that because of what happened at Virginia Tech, because of heightened security on university campuses, because they want to make sure that their students are protected, they're not going to take this tool away from the police. The police are going to continue to be allowed to use the taser, to carry the taser if it's necessary. And they -- if something changes through the course of the investigation, which should be completed next week, then maybe, maybe then they might change the policy. But at this point, no plans to change that policy. Police will continue to be allowed to use the tasers, if necessary -- Kitty. PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much.
John Zarrella.
Well, the latest polls are out tonight in the debate over the future course of the war in Iraq.
And as Bill Schneider reports, Americans are still against the war, despite a presidential address and testimony from a respected general.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Two high-profile media events about Iraq last week -- the top U.S. commander testified before Congress; the president delivered a prime time speech.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In Iraq, an ally of United States is fighting for its survival.
SCHNEIDER: What impact did they have?
Very little, according to two polls taken at the end of the week. Before the Petraeus testimony and the president's speech, 26 percent of Americans polled by CBS News approved of the president's handling of Iraq; after the speech, 25. Before the testimony and the speech, 41 percent of Americans believed the United States did the right thing to take military action in Iraq. After the speech, 39 percent said it was the right thing.
President Bush spoke about a return on success, drawing on General Petraeus' assessment.
GEORGE BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: His belief we're succeeding, his belief we will succeed -- and I ask the United States Congress to support the troop levels and the strategies I have embraced.
SCHNEIDER: Democrats were skeptical.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have now set the bar so low that modest improvement in what was a completely chaotic situation, to the point where now we just have the levels of intolerable violence that existed in June of 2006, is considered success. And it's not.
SCHNEIDER: Does the public believe the U.S. troop buildup is making this situation in Iraq better?
Before last week, 35 percent of Americans said yes in the CBS News poll. At the end of the week, 31 percent said yes. The Pew Poll found that most Americans want the U.S. to bring its troops home as soon as possible, same as in July.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SCHNEIDER: President Bush's overall job approval hardly changed -- 30 percent before the speech, 29 percent after. But the president's rating did jump 15 points among Republicans.
So, bottom line, nothing much changed. The public still wants out of Iraq, but the president's Republican base remains loyal -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Bill Schneider.
Well, Congressional Democrats appear to have given up their attempts to compromise with Republicans on a timetable for troop withdrawal.
As Dana Bash now reports, Democrats believe a plan by Senator Jim Webb could be the party's best chance at passing a bill that forces at least some change to Iraq policy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Freshman Democrat Jim Webb thinks he's found a way to force a change in Iraq policy -- focus on the overextended troops.
SEN. JIM WEBB (D), VIRGINIA: There's nothing going on in Iraq that justifies requiring our soldiers and Marines to be in Iraq more than they're home.
BASH: His legislation mandates troops to spend as much time at home as on the battlefield.
WEBB: This administration has continued this policy for four-and- a-half years. It's reached the level where they are abusing, in my view the well-being of our troops, and the Congress has a duty to step forward.
BASH: Webb is a former Navy secretary and fought in Vietnam. His son is now serving in Iraq. He is driven by personal experience.
WEBB: I know what it's like to have a father deployed. I know what it's like to be deployed. I know what it's like to have a son deployed.
BASH: Some supporters of Webb's proposal call it a back door way to force redeployment from Iraq. The Pentagon is fighting to defeat it. Defense Secretary Robert Gates warns it would actually make him extend tours in Iraq, breakup military units and reduce combat effectiveness.
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The cumulative effect of these kinds of things, we think, would, frankly, increase the risk to our men and women in uniform over there.
WEBB: Secretary Gates is a member of this administration. This administration has created a problem that is affecting the morale and the retention of their troops.
BASH: Webb, a former Republican, says troop rest is even more critical since the president admitted the U.S. will be in Iraq for some time.
WEBB: They were denying it and denying it for years. And now they openly are saying this is going to be like Korea. So I think they need to get their stories straight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, Webb appears to have 57 of the 60 votes he needs and says he has a pretty good chance of finding three more Republicans for this legislation to pass. But the senator says he also knows, Kitty, he is up against staunch opposition from the Pentagon and Republican Senators like John McCain, who say they think it is unconstitutional to limit the president's ability to deploy troops -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Dana Bash.
Coming up, you may have thought Congress' amnesty agenda was dead. Think again. Senator Jeff Sessions will be here to tell us how the issue is being raised again.
And John Edwards blasts Senator Hillary Clinton, saying she's part of the problem, not the solution. We'll discuss that and more with three of the nation's leading radio show hosts.
So stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Amnesty for millions of illegal aliens was defeated when the so-called Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill collapsed in June.
But some Congressional Democrats have slowly been reviving amnesty piecemeal by attaching it to other legislation.
Well, joining me now is one of the biggest opponents of this amnesty for illegal aliens, Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama.
And thank you for being with us, sir.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: Good to be with you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: You know, you have taken exception to proposals by Senators Durbin and Feinstein that you say will give amnesty to up to four million illegal aliens. They're attaching it to certain bills. The defense bill is one and potentially the farm bill is another, slipping this amnesty legislation into other bills.
How -- do you believe that this will damage the prospect of having these bills move forward? SESSIONS: I just can't believe Congress, after the American people spoke so clearly earlier this summer, would go along with attempts to add The DREAM Act, which would provide in-state tuition and college loan subsidies to illegal aliens -- that that would pass. They are attempting to attack it, as I predicted a couple of weeks ago, on must pass legislation like this defense bill.
So Senator Durbin has offered it to the defense bill and is attempting to move that, but we do not need to allow this to happen. It was rejected earlier this summer in the comprehensive bill. And, also, the plan seemed to be to add the comprehensive ag jobs legislation to the ag bill later this fall, both of which would put about four million people provided full rights to citizenship. And, you know, that's almost a third -- that's a third of the people that were to be provided amnesty under the bill this summer.
PILGRIM: You have said that this basically rewards those who violate the law. You know, when the when the bill failed in -- before -- there was some thinking that they wouldn't turn up again until after the 2008 elections.
Why is there an attempt to sort of squeak this in under the radar?
SESSIONS: I really don't know. There just seems to be an obsession with moving these pieces of legislation that tend to focus far more on the interests of people who have come here illegally, far more focused on trying to benefit them than to create a lawful system that would work for the future.
The more we give amnesty and rewards to those who came illegally, the more people in the future will think that they, too, will get a reward if they can just break into the country.
PILGRIM: Senator Feinstein's ag jobs proposal would give one-and- a-half million agricultural workers, basically, eventually amnesty.
Here's what one of the advocates of the plan had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE GOLDSTEIN, FARMWORKER JUSTICE: Ag jobs would allow undocumented farmworkers who have been working in the United States to earn legal immigration status by continuing to work in agriculture. They would have the freedom to switch employers and bargain for better wages and working conditions and join labor unions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now as you point out, the previous bill would have given amnesty to up to 20 million illegal aliens by splitting out just agricultural workers.
Do you believe that that's an attempt to get it passed by special interests? SESSIONS: You know, I think that's basically it. It's a gambit to try to pick out some area that we need to do some improvement on and to use that as a vehicle to expand amnesty again. I think we can do something about agricultural workers. I think we can create a genuine, temporary seasonal worker program and I support that. But I do not believe that we should reward people who have come illegally with every single right we give to those who come legally. That's a principle of mine that I think is important and I think it should be important for the country.
PILGRIM: Well, we applaud your efforts to bringing it to the attention of the public, because this is definitely a stealth attack to get -- to get this through.
I would like to changes subjects for a second. President Bush is nominating federal Judge Michael Mukasey, who you met today. And he is considerably less conservative than previous discussed candidates.
Do you believe that this is an attempt for the president to avoid a fight over his nomination?
SESSIONS: Well, perhaps. Some of the nominees that were being considered were quite capable, but had opposition from liberals and some of the Democrats. And he tried to get a nominee that would probably avoid that.
I think this is a solid nominee. I think his principles are sound. I talked to him about the need for immigration and enforcement and some other issues that I thought were important and he answered those quite well. He's not a movie star. That's not his style...
PILGRIM: I guess the real question is would you vote to confirm him?
SESSIONS: I expect to, based on what I know now. He seems to be a solid choice.
PILGRIM: All right.
Thank you very much.
Senator Jeff Sessions.
Thank you, sir.
SESSIONS: All right, thank you.
PILGRIM: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll -- do you believe increased government regulation of imports will actually increase import safety, yes or no?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com.
We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
Also, coming up, Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards slams Senator Hillary Clinton, calling Clinton's fundraising event a poster child for what is wrong with Washington.
And Rudy Giuliani, in a new campaign ad, says he is the liberals' worst nightmare.
We'll cut through the political rhetoric with three leading radio talk show hosts next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Joining me now are three of the best radio talk show hosts in the country.
From Washington, D.C. We're joined by Joe Madison of WOL and X.M. Radio.
In Phoenix, Charles Goyette of KNFX.
And in New York, joining me on the set is Mark Simone of WABC Radio.
And thank you all for being here.
MARK SIMONE, WABC IN NEW YORK: Thank you.
PILGRIM: You know, we've been discussing...
SIMONE: Hi, Kitty.
PILGRIM: We've been discussing this University of Florida tasering incident. And, you know, it seems that we have a variety of opinion. Even in the newsroom, it's very interesting. I would really like to get your quick comments on that, in terms of what's -- what's your opinion.
Joe?
MADISON: Well, even here in Washington, in the makeup room, there's a variety of opinions. I -- my position is I think it was overkill, quite honestly, on both parts. I hate it when people know that their time is up, but they're just going to insist. But at the same time, you know, I think Senator Kerry was right -- maybe they should have allowed him to handle it and eventually the student would have probably said what he had to say and leave. I -- this seemed to be excessive to me.
PILGRIM: Yes. And Senator Kerry did, in fact, offer to answer the question at one point. But it never got to that point.
MADISON: He should have been allowed to. He's dealt with these kinds of situations before.
CHARLES GOYETTE, KFNX IN PHOENIX: Kitty...
PILGRIM: Yes, Charles. Go ahead.
GOYETTE: Kitty, can I just tell you, Senator Kerry has shown once again how utterly useless he is. Maybe it's something about serving in public office. There was a time that he was a brave and outspoken and bold man when he came back from Vietnam and he said how do you ask a man to be the last person to die for a mistake?
In this case, he went on and on and droned while this kid was being wrestled to the floor by five or six cops, while the kid got tasered. And we went on and on and on with his droning answer and reply.
Look, all of us in the public debate have been in these public talks where somebody asks a question and goes on too long and hogs the microphone and stuff. And it's all so easily handled. And Kerry couldn't bestir himself to put an end to it. The man has been useless in public life.
PILGRIM: Well, there are some who would argue that it's pretty hard to shut up a 21-year-old college student with a point to make.
Joe -- go ahead.
SIMONE: Well, Let me clear up a few of the myths.
PILGRIM: OK.
SIMONE: First of all, I watched all of the video. He wasn't asking a question, he was making a long speech. He was attacking Kerry for not contesting the vote in 2004. And when he did throw in a question, it wasn't even a real question. He asked him was he a member of Skull and Bones. I guarantee you this kid knew that, because Kerry has answered it a thousand times.
The other myth is well, John Kerry wanted to answer his question. John Kerry would have loved to get this kid out of the room. There never should have been a taser here. But this kid was the worst disruptive, spoiled brat you could imagine.
GOYETTE: No, this...
(CROSSTALK)
GOYETTE: Mark, this is...
SIMONE: Watch all the...
(CROSSTALK)
SIMONE: Watch all the...
(CROSSTALK)
GOYETTE: This is not true.
SIMONE: Watch all of...
GOYETTE: These -- I've seen all of the tape. We've seen the whole deal. These are questions that actually people in our industry and the news profession should be asking John Kerry. He goes to these forums. He says oh, we're in danger of a war in Iran. And so the student says well, why don't you do something about it, because he does nothing about it.
GOYETTE: But Kerry is not...
GOYETTE: It's a perfectly legitimate question.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: I'm sorry. Kerry is not...
(CROSSTALK)
PILGRIM: (INAUDIBLE) one at a time.
Go ahead.
MADISON: Kerry is not the issue here. The issue is whether the police overreacted. It's not -- Kerry is not the issue.
GOYETTE: No, it's about...
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: And they're not investigating...
(CROSSTALK)
PILGRIM: Hold it a second.
(CROSSTALK)
PILGRIM: I don't think we're going to solve it.
Let me move on to another -- I just really need to get through a couple of subjects -- and this is Senator Clinton unveiling her health care plan.
Again, a fury over this. Everyone has something to say.
Let's hear what Mitt Romney had to say about it.
So let's listen to that for a second.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Her plan is crafted by Washington. Mine is crafted by individual states. Her plan has government insurance. Mine has private insurance. Her plan raises taxes. Mine does not raise taxes. So it's as different as night and day. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: He also accused her of buying into European bureaucracies -- the model from European bureaucracies. But, you know, many of the experts say that this plan is quite similar to Mitt Romney's plan -- the Clinton and Romney plans are quite similar.
What do you have to say about this, Joe?
MADISON: The devil is in the details. That's exactly -- all you have here is a basic philosophical plan right now with no details. I like the fact that small businesses might get tax breaks. I like -- what I don't like about it is mandatory health insurance. I mean you've got a lot of young people who don't want it at all. So there are good parts to it, bad parts to it. The reality it's going to be the second biggest issue in presidential politics and let's wait and see.
PILGRIM: A very big issue for the American public, Joe.
MADISON: The first being Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
SIMONE: Well, having Hillary Clinton put together a health care plan is -- that's like Ray Nagin putting together an emergency shelter. The last time either one of them tried it, it was a disaster. And this idea that the government can force you, order you to buy health care, I don't even know if that's constitutional.
Where does it say in the constitution that the government can order you to purchase something?
PILGRIM: The Massachusetts state plan is based on that premise.
SIMONE: Yes. You could make that case about Romney.
PILGRIM: Well...
SIMONE: I mean I'm not here to defend Romney either, but this might be...
GOYETTE: Mark, if you were particularly concerned about the constitution, you should have objected to the unconstitutional war.
But I'll tell you something, the American people need to stand up and look at any politician who offers to give them anything for free in the next election cycle and vote no. We are broke. I don't think that most of the American people understand, we've got $9 trillion in debt on the books. The dollar is sinking like a stone. We are broke. Do not let them try to con you and buy your vote with money they do not have.
SIMONE: Well, let's also point out we have record revenue. We've got, I think, a 2.5 percent deficit, which is unusually low. It's not a case of not enough revenue coming in. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.
SIMONE: It's too much government spending already.
MADISON: Oh, no. Yes.
GOYETTE: But you drive...
MADISON: Then all of it's being...
GOYETTE: You drive by...
MADISON: And all of it's being...
GOYETTE: You drive by the public schools -- Mark, you drive by the public schools in your neighborhood and you laugh at the little children on the playground because the Bush administration and the Democrats have loaded children unborn and on the playgrounds of the public schools with debt. They will never have the lifestyle or the standard of living that we enjoy today because of this runaway government.
MADISON: The only thing I...
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: The only thing I was...
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: The only thing I was going to say is that and we're going broke deeper and deeper in debt because of this war. That's the reason and that's why we'd better end this war now. And that's why it had better be the number one debate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MADISON: And then maybe we can have some money to do the kinds of things, because health insurance is a big issue as this country gets older, and it's going to get bigger.
PILGRIM: Let's talk politics for a second. John Edwards also taking issue with Senator Clinton today about a campaign fundraiser that she held. Donors were given the opportunity to meet with Clinton and then other members of Congress to discuss security-related issues.
Now Edwards says this shows exactly what's wrong, the sort of special interest groups access that goes on in Washington inner circles.
What do you think about this?
Joe, I'll start with you.
MADISON: Well, I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: I'm sorry.
Somebody else?
PILGRIM: Go ahead, Joe.
MADISON: Oh, no. I mean yes, what's new?
You're absolutely right. Everything is special interests in this town, I mean, except for the American people, the middle class people. We don't have lobbyists. Poor people don't have lobbyists, and, quite honestly, I'm really sick of it, which is one reason I announced last week that I'm giving up my political affiliation and going independent with a small "i".
I'm tired of it, because both...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh...
MADISON: ...because both parties...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe...
MADISON: ...are in the hip pocket of corporate America, period.
PILGRIM: All right.
Charles?
GOYETTE: Congratulations.
Joe, congratulations.
Welcome to the club of independence.
Good work, bud.
PILGRIM: Charles, what do you think about this Clinton/Edwards issue?
GOYETTE: You know, I think that the entire United States government is up for auction. The tax code is nothing but a playground for lobbyists and for politicians to buy reelection. None of this stuff is surprising. There's got to be a holistic solution to what we face. And the holistic solution, Kitty, is to take away from the politician the right to dispense or give out goodies. That's how they finance the re-election. That's how they're bankrupting America.
PILGRIM: Mark, is the system broken, as we are suggesting this evening?
SIMONE: Absolutely. Joe is absolutely right. Both parties are equally guilty here. The only problem with Edwards is I mean he's absolutely a three dollar bill on this. Here's a guy who, when he left Congress, chose as a career working at a hedge fund. And he's worried about special interest groups?
Here's a guy whose hedge fund is foreclosing on Katrina victims and -- he has a senior adviser who claimed he knew nothing about it.
MADISON: Yes. That's right.
PILGRIM: All right.
Well, on that optimistic note about the political process, we have to end it.
Mark Simone, Charles Goyette and Joe Madison.
Thank you, gentlemen.
SIMONE: Thanks.
MADISON: Thank you.
GOYETTE: Thank you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM WITH WOLF BLITZER" -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Thanks very much, Kitty.
The Federal Reserve responding now to the mortgage meltdown with dramatic action -- doing something they haven't done in four years. You're going to find out what it means for you and how Wall Street is responding.
Also, Bill Maher -- he's accusing the president of what he's calling a "scam." He has some tough words for both Democrats and Republicans on Iraq. Plus, you'll find out which Republican candidate Bill Maher likes in '08.
And we're going to show you why it's going to be harder for presidential candidates to travel in style.
All that, Kitty, coming up, right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
Thanks, Wolf.
Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll.
More of your thoughts.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll. And 74 percent of you say increased government regulation of imports will not increase import safety. About a quarter of you say, hey, it just might work. Time for some more of your thoughts.
And many of you are writing in about our previous poll question. We asked, do you trust the Congress to heed the will of the people and refuse to accept any new illegal alien amnesty legislation?
So, Lorena in Texas wrote to us: "Gee, how can I trust to Congress to hear and follow the will of the people when I wouldn't even trust them if they told me the sun would rise in the East tomorrow?"
And Elaine in New Jersey wrote to us: "Please keep speaking for us, as we have been gagged. Seeking representation -- the middle class."
And Len in Texas wrote: "I have a question for Congress regarding illegal immigration and their back door pursuit of amnesty via the so- called DREAM Act. Now, are you listening to the American people or do you not give a damn?"
Bill in Nevada: "I see that Congress is scheduled to take up The DREAM Act this week. I believe that this act should be called the fulfillment of their wildest dreams and really sticking it to the U.S. Americans and what more could they dream of?"
We absolutely love hearing from you.
Send us your thought at loudobbs.com.
Thanks for being with us tonight.
Please join us tomorrow.
For all of us here, thanks for watching.
Good night from New York.
And "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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