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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Assassination Attempt Made on Former Pakistani Prime Minister; Democrats Fail to Override Veto on Children's Health Insurance Plan
Aired October 18, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: terrorists trying to assassinate Pakistan's former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto, in Karachi. More than 19 people were killed, 150 wounded in that attack. We will have live reports from Karachi.
Also, new outrage in our Congress over the failure of the federal government's so-called policies on border security and free trade.
Sections of the much delayed fence along our border with Mexico are being constructed with steel from -- you guessed it -- communist China. We will have the report.
And well-funded socio-ethnocentric interest groups, many of them receiving federal funds, are trying to stop another local community from enforcing immigration laws and protecting their citizens from the impact of illegal immigration. That special report on what appears to be a concerted nationwide effort by these groups.
And we will have the inside story on the struggle to deport criminal illegal aliens from the country. Ames Holbrook, former federal agent, author of "The Deporter," joins us.
All of that, all the day's news, much more, straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Thursday, October 18.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Chaos and carnage in the Pakistani city of Karachi tonight after an attempt to assassinate former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. Officials in Karachi say nearly 100 people were killed in the attacks. Some reports say the death toll will be even higher.
Bhutto herself was not injured. Two bombs exploded near her motorcade after she returned from exile today. Before returning to Pakistan, Bhutto declared she would support American efforts to kill or capture radical Islamist terrorists.
Dan Rivers joins us now live from Karachi on the phone.
Dan, what's the latest there tonight on the number of casualties and what happened in Karachi tonight? DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest we are hearing is that 110 people have now been killed, according to officials, and about 150 wounded.
We had been down at the scene shortly after the blast. It was a terrible scene with bodies strewn all across the street, body parts everywhere. The police had surrounded what they think was the remains of one suicide bomber.
One vehicle was completely burned out a mere 20 feet or so away from the bus that was carrying Benazir Bhutto. That sustained some damage. But luckily, she seems to have escaped largely unhurt from this blast. There were some dramatic pictures on local television showing the moment the blast ripped across the crowd and afterwards the terrible damage that was left, with people left injured and dazed after this blast ripped through the crowd.
So, at the moment, the death toll stands at 110. But we are expecting that may well rise as the body count continues -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, Dan, the reception for Benazir Bhutto, just thousands and thousands of people turning out to greet and welcome her return to life in Pakistan.
RIVERS: That's right.
Until this point, it had really been a sort of carnival atmosphere, with her motorcade crawling through the streets, absolutely mobbed by thousands of people. But there was always this underlying risk of a terrorist attack.
It was clear before she came that the risk was there. One Taliban leader in one of the border areas, south Waziristan, Baitullah Mehsud, had threatened that his suicide bombers would be waiting for her as soon as she got back. And everyone was also aware that the slow pace of this motorcade made it an incredibly easy target for the terrorists.
There was some security around her motorcade, but certainly there was no effort to hold the crowd back from the vehicle, as she was mobbed really by thousands of people, which made it very easy for the crowd to be infiltrated by her suicide bombers, which is what the police think this was.
It looks like it was a double suicide bombing, although we are still not clear whether that was a vehicle-borne bomb or it was a bomb strapped to someone in the crowd, but certainly a massive amount of carnage and a huge number of people still arriving at hospital, being ferreted to hospitals and being treated there.
We understand Benazir Bhutto herself is secure, is safe. There were some dramatic pictures of her scrambling from the top of the bus minutes, seconds after the explosion and trying to make her way to safety.
But it appears this was an assassination attempt against her and it's an assassination attempt that appears to have failed.
DOBBS: Dan Rivers, thank you very much, reporting from Karachi.
Benazir Bhutto returning today to Pakistan, after Musharraf, President Musharraf, had dropped corruption charges against her, permitting and paving the way for her return in what until those attacks had been a warm and vibrant welcome back.
The White House, of course, today strongly condemning those attacks on Bhutto and her supporters. Pakistan plays a critical role in the war against radical Islamist terrorism. And Pakistan reportedly also possessing at least 50 nuclear weapons.
Pakistani troops and aircraft recently stepping up offensives against radical Islamist terrorists near the border with Afghanistan. Taliban, al Qaeda terrorists all using those border areas as safe havens from which to launch attacks against American troops in Afghanistan.
Turning to political news in the United States, the White House tonight declaring victory in its latest showdown with congressional Democrats. Those Democrats today failed to win enough support to override the president's veto of children's health insurance.
It is the latest in a series of political defeats for House Speaker Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi.
Ed Henry has our report from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush is trying to puncture the notion that, with just 15 months to go, he's merely fading into lame-duck oblivion.
ED GILLESPIE, COUNSELOR TO PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I think people realize that the president of the United States is always going to have sway and have influence and have power.
HENRY: With Democrats still struggling to get their sea legs, a veto-pen-wielding commander in chief still has juice.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I tell you I'm going to sprint to the finish and finish this job strong, that's one way to ensure that I am relevant. That's one way to ensure that I am in the process, and I intend to use the veto.
HENRY: "I'm still relevant" -- where have we heard that before? President Clinton in 1995, shortly after the Republican revolution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Constitution gives me relevance. The power of our ideas gives me relevance. The president is relevant here, especially an activist president. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Clinton quickly proved himself right, using the bully pulpit to clean the Republicans' clock over the government shutdown.
Likewise, Mr. Bush has used his megaphone to buy more time for his Iraq strategy and now to sustain his veto of the Democrats' vast expansion of the Children's Health Insurance Program.
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We won this round on SCHIP.
HENRY: Just as Clinton was strengthened by missteps from Republican Speaker Newt Gingrich, Mr. Bush has been helped by Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid failing to find consensus on Iraq, and Pelosi overreaching on a resolution dealing with Armenia.
But, with the war in Iraq still raging, the White House has to be careful about victory dances.
ROBERT DALLEK, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It is without question a burden not just on the Bush presidency, but on the whole Republican Party.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Likewise, Democrats note that while the president may have won a short-term victory on children's health care, this vote could backfire on Republicans on the ballot in November. Democrats have already cut the campaign commercials charging that the president is hurting kids -- Lou.
DOBBS: Now, I think, again, in the interest of some balance here, Ed, wouldn't you agree it could also backfire against the Democrats who again have been unsuccessful in their efforts to thwart the president, whether through an override of his veto or an assertion of a policy which he opposes?
HENRY: Certainly, as I pointed out in the piece, on many of these issues, the president is showing that maybe he has a lot more power than people thought he had.
And also on this issue, it could backfire for Democrats because why the president is drawing a line in the sand on this is that he's saying it is time to finally cut federal spending. So, it may in the end look like the Democrats want to increase it too much by pushing for $35 billion more in federal money -- Lou.
DOBBS: Even though there's some great irony that, with about 15 months left in his presidency, he would be trying to assert himself as a man of some constraint when it comes to the federal budget.
HENRY: He did not veto any spending bills when there was a Republican Congress -- Lou.
DOBBS: Right.
Thank you very much, Ed Henry, from the White House.
The Air Force tonight preparing apparently to take tough disciplinary action against officers involved in an embarrassing nuclear mistake, a B-52 bomber loaded with nuclear warheads flying from an Air Force base in North Dakota over the United States to a base in Louisiana, the worst known security violation involving nuclear warheads in decades.
Sources say the Air Force could dismiss as many as six of its officers.
Joining me now, General David Grange, one of the most decorated and respected former military commanders.
General Grange, thank you very much.
Let's turn first to the Air Force taking harsh -- apparently harsh disciplinary action against as many as six officers.
Your thoughts?
BRIGADIER GENERAL DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, as they should, if they are responsible. It almost sounds like one of these movies where someone takes a nuclear weapon and goes haywire.
There's quite a lot of security in these systems. There's duplication. It takes more than one person to make a mistake, very unusual, as you have stated. And I'm sure they are going to take appropriate action just because of the concern of the National Command Authority and the Department of Defense.
DOBBS: Reduction of the number of American casualties, at least so far, in Iraq, encouragement? Is it a suggestion of profound progress on the part of the United States' strategy in Iraq?
GRANGE: It is progress. But as we well know, you can't just measure losses to show the effectiveness of a particular strategy. Many other indicators come into that mix. But it is obviously a positive sign. And, as an American, I'm very happy about it.
DOBBS: Well, as Americans all, we then should all be happy about it.
We are, however, to also be sobered by the comments by General Ricardo Sanchez and his statement that this war -- that United States is in a very difficult position against an intractable enemy.
Your response to his thoughts?
GRANGE: Well, General Sanchez is part of that predicament that we are in now. I mean, he was a commander, though not totally in charge, who had a civilian oversight. And you had command coming out of the United States of America. However, on his benefit, I think he was under-resourced, undermanned. And there was policies put into place that was not beneficial to his ability to command properly in Iraq at that time.
DOBBS: And "Wall Street Journal" columnist Daniel Henninger, an outstanding columnist with whom I often disagree, I thought he made a very good point. Much of the national media overlook the fact that General Sanchez was criticizing the national media, the political structure, as well as the military commanders, and of course the commander in chief, by extension, in this war. And it seemed to me at least he had that exactly right.
GRANGE: Well, you know, the president of the United States and the media is a target to be criticized by the American people and many others that are criticized in a constant manner.
But, you know, you have got to be able to deal with it and you have got to be able to explain why when you are criticized and just take the hits.
DOBBS: Right. Take the hits, but at the same time one hopes that the general staff of the United States military is preparing a new generation of leaders who are far more resourceful, innovative and effective than those generals who have been leading our efforts in Iraq to this point.
Wouldn't you agree?
GRANGE: Well, I agree, to include being media savvy.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
General David Grange, thank you, sir.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Up next, socio-ethnocentric special interests groups still at it, trying to stop another local community from enforcing their laws against the impact of illegal immigration.
Casey Wian will have the story about why certain groups, like the ACLU, are more interested in protecting the rights of other nations' citizens than the prerogatives of American citizens -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, that's right. A New Mexico county's effort to crack down on suspected illegal aliens is being challenged in court by the usual suspects, MALDEF and the ACLU -- Lou.
DOBBS: We look forward to it, Casey. Thank you.
Also, the foreign lobby and pro-amnesty groups, well, you know what? The fact is, they are just not telling the truth about illegal immigration and the impact on big ag in this country. You know, if the son of a guns would pay a living wage, it wouldn't have much of an effect on American consumer, and we could all hold our heads up just a little higher with some dignity for all, the farm workers and ourselves. It is all about America. Our special report coming up.
And communist China may launch an effort to buy a stake in one of this country's leading financial institutions. The idiots in this White House, the idiots in this Congress, they are just thrilled. They have no idea what in the world their idiotic policies have wrought. We will be telling you. Red storm rising coming up.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: It is going on all over the country, in this case, a New Mexico county sheriff's department facing multiple lawsuits, trying to staunch the impact of illegal immigration in their community.
Sheriff's deputies are now accused of conducting illegal raids in search of illegal aliens. The sheriff's department says it is utter nonsense, that it simply helped federal immigration authorities to do the job.
As Casey Wian now reports, those lawsuits are filed by well- funded and well-known liberal pro-amnesty groups, including the ACLU, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): Otero County, New Mexico, has 62,000 residents and as of September 10 28 fewer illegal aliens. That day, Otero County sheriff's deputies took part in Operation Stone Garden. It is a federal program that pays for local law enforcement to help apprehend illegal aliens and turn them over to immigration authorities.
But now the tiny sheriff's department is being sued by the ACLU, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, and two other immigration rights groups for conducting what they say are illegal raids and apprehensions of people who simply appear to be Latino.
PETER SIMONSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACLU NEW MEXICO: We have at least a half-dozen reports of people whose homes were entered without search warrants, without consent, sheriff's deputies demanding identification and immigration identification.
WIAN: Sheriff's department officials deny accusations that they are stopping people on the street or entering homes without probable cause.
NORBERT SANCHEZ, OTERO COUNTY UNDERSHERIFF: We can't overlook the fact that they are undocumented. If they have got their documentation and they got the right to be here, well, we are going to respect that. But we can't overlook the law. We have got a Constitution we have got to abide by. We're going to enforce those laws.
WIAN: The lawsuit enraged this local border security activist, who showed up at a news conference to confront the ACLU. CLIFF MILBURN, MINUTEMAN: They are just wanting to cause problems. My efforts are just to secure the border. And if someone is here illegally, it is illegal. And what part of illegal don't they understand?
WIAN: Operation Stone Garden began in 2004 and last year was expanded to include $12 million in federal grants to the four Southwest border states. The money pays for overtime and equipment allowing local law enforcement to improve border security.
A MALDEF attorney says his organization has no problem with Operation Stone Garden, only the way it was implemented in Otero County.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The sheriff's department says it only asked people for identification during investigations of other criminal matters. MALDEF claims those matters were simply a pretext to round up suspected illegal aliens -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the nonsense goes on.
Any indication at this point that those law enforcement officers did have proper warrants when they entered homes and that indeed that they were pursuing the, in this case, investigations of those who had been charged with other crimes before moving on immigration issues?
WIAN: The only indication we have of that are the sheriff's department public statements at a news conference. We called the sheriff's department to try to ask them those types of questions today. They did not return our calls. Perhaps they don't want to talk because they are being sued -- Lou.
DOBBS: All right. Thank you very much.
And we are going to continue to look into why so many of these socio-ethnocentric activist groups are involved in this, why organizations like the ACLU are without fail working for illegal immigrant rights organizations and in behalf of those organizations and not in behalf of American citizens, who are being so severely affected by the impact of illegal immigration.
It is pretty clear that the ACLU has been -- has become an open borders, amnesty activist organization.
Casey, thank you very much -- Casey Wian.
There is no shortage of groups talking about a shortage of labor on this nation's farms. The farm lobby, in fact, and the pro-amnesty lobbyists and the pro-open-borders lobbyists, of course -- that reads big ag, big business -- say fear of immigration crackdowns is keeping those workers away, that crops are actually rotting in our fields.
Well, tonight, the dirty little secret is out on all of those nonsensical claims. Bill Tucker now with the report on what's really happening on America's farms.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Philip Martin, a noted agricultural economist at the University of California-Davis, wanted to know what's going on down on the farm. Despite the study's title, "Immigration Reform and Farm Labor Shortages," the report itself does not find evidence of a severe labor shortage, labor shortages said to be brought on by immigration crackdowns.
His findings are based on economics. In a market economy, a lack of workers should create higher wages to attract more workers. Yet, Martin found that, in California and Florida, where more than half of our fruits and vegetables are grown, farm wages are rising, but at a slower rate than the U.S. as a whole.
He also found that instead of avoiding crops which need a lot of workers, farmers expanded their planting of those crops, like strawberries, cherries, romaine and leaf lettuces.
PHILIP MARTIN, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, DAVIS: Fruit and vegetable production in the United States has increased. And I did not find sharp increases in wage rates or average hourly earnings of workers.
TUCKER: Martin's findings are controversial because they refute the official line from the farm lobby, which is pushing for more workers and amnesty for those already here.
One respected agricultural economist disagrees with Martin's findings. James Holt believes there is a labor shortage and that rising wages are not fixing the problem.
JAMES HOLT, AGRICULTURE ECONOMIST: If in fact increasing wages was going to -- was the solution to this problem, you would think that there would be more farm workers and more legal farm workers in the work force now than there was at the beginning of this period.
TUCKER: The Department of Labor reports that 53 percent of farm workers are illegal immigrants, which might have a connection to another simple economic fact that Martin makes note of. Farm labor is hard work that pays poorly.
He says the average farm worker earns $8,000 to $9,000 a year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And Martin says those economic realities should and could help shape government policy in helping mechanize the harvest. And he points to California's tomato crop as an example. In the 1960s, tomatoes were picked by hand. Lou, now virtually all of the state's tomato crop is harvested by machine at an extremely low cost per pound. DOBBS: And we should point out, to put the good professor in some context, U.C. Davis is perhaps the foremost agricultural university in the country. And he is among the foremost agricultural economists.
It is also interesting that he's also the economist who first did a projection on what would happen if you raised substantially farm wages to the price, for example, of lettuce and the impact on the American consumer, which would, as I recall, amount to about 10 cents a head of lettuce to provide a living wage to farm workers.
TUCKER: Exactly.
DOBBS: You know, the farm lobby in this country, don't let anybody kid you, we are talking about big agriculture. These are big corporations. These are not mom-and-pop farms that we are talking about here. This is pure, absolute rancid exploitation of labor. They are dying for more illegal labor, and they are not willing to put the price forward to sustain those workers. Outright exploitation.
And I will be delighted to debate any one of you from any growers association, any one of the agriculture lobbies, any one of the big agribusinesses in the country. And you can explain yourself about why you would pay these kinds of wages for people who are breaking their backs every day, both legal and illegal.
And, by the way, I was one of those people who used to work with those migrant workers. So, come on down, folks, and explain why you want to pay these cheap wages and whine about illegal labor.
Bill Tucker, thanks a lot.
Well, it is time now for some of your thoughts.
Bryan in Montana said: "I can't fathom what this country is doing."
I have got to say to you, you are not alone.
He says: "We outsource our jobs, our safety, our security. When it's going to stop? Wake up, America."
Wake up America, indeed.
And Marc in Tennessee: "Hey, Lou, do our country our favor. Run for president. Save the real American people from the axis of idiots."
Well, that's a very flattering thought or it is a very concerning thought. I don't know which. But, either way, I'm not in the running.
And Pamela in California: "In California, we threw out Gray Davis when he was out of touch with voters. Don't New Yorkers have the guts to throw out a governor who is ramming such an unpopular DMV policy that is giving away driver's licenses to illegal aliens down their throats?"
We will see. A lot of people are starting to talk about it in this state.
We will have more of your thoughts here in the broadcast. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com
Up next, should officials close a school of hate funded by Saudi Arabian oil dollars? We will have that live report. And we will also examine why we would even have to ask the question.
And a potentially deadly superbug spreading to an alarming number of schools around the country.
China, flush with American dollars. So is Japan, by the way. Now communist China is putting those Yankee dollars to work, going on a buying spree, not in our credit markets. They want to buy hard assets, little things, like corporations, land, America.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, communist China is, well, expanding its economy, expanding its military. And it is flush with cash, mostly Yankee dollars, buying up corporations all over the world now. It is the latest object of interest to the United States government, which seems to be awakening to the issue after, for example, China has decided to invest in Bear Stearns.
China already America's banker -- the second largest holder of American debt, bought up with the proceeds of our record trade deficit.
As Christine Romans now reports, the Chinese are putting all of those Yankee dollars to work and not in those Yankee interests.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Is America's banker looking to buy a piece of an American investment bank?
A top Chinese banking official this week says CITIC Group, the overseas investment arm of the Chinese government, is interested in a stake in Bear Stearns -- a Wall Street institution that survived the crash of '29, but has battered by the mortgage crisis.
A day later, Civic issued a statement saying a deal is not imminent.
But what is clear is that China has the intent and the funds to buy almost anything it wants -- and financial services are next.
CHARLES MCMILLION, MBG INFORMATION SERVICES: Investment banking is a unique industry. It gives them just a phenomenal perch from which to learn about the technologies of all of our industries, the best management practices of all of our industry. And that's part of the larger Chinese strategy. ROMANS: Bear Stearns would not comment.
China has been an aggressive buyer of the world's natural resources. It has sought major technology assets, like the 3Com deal raising alarms in Congress.
China has the money to spend thanks to U.S. trade policies that led to record trade deficits. China's war chest of foreign currency has exploded, from just over $200 billion in 2001 to more than $1.4 trillion today. Now, China's economic planners say they want to put those dollars to work.
WILLIAM HAWKINS, U.S. BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY COUNCIL: All of this is being done by the government of China. This is not private enterprise. This is not business as usual. This is the government allocating these, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars for government objectives.
ROMANS: China's reserves are rising by at least $10 billion a week this year. Economist McMillon says consider that government-owned Lenovo bought IBM's PC business in 2005 for $1.25 billion. That means China could buy eight such companies every week.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ROMANS: As the dollar declines, there are concerns that China may be tempted to sell off U.S. Treasury assets, ultimately driving up interest rates in this country. With such a huge war chest, even that threat gives China incredible leverage over the U.S. economy. And, indeed, in the month of August, both Japan and China and Taiwan's central banks were huge sellers.
DOBBS: Well, look, you know, because we -- we look at the independent, nonpartisan reality and it freezes a bit from what some other news organizations, for example, may be doing.
Fact -- the dollar is now at an all time low against the euro.
Fact -- China and Japan both, with those immense reserves, the principal holder of American dollars and hard currency, are driving that dollar lower because of their change in strategy. China, in particular, is no longer interested in our credit markets, which it has been sustaining. Now it wants hard assets and is pursuing this.
And deals with The Carlisle Group with The Blackstone Group and rumored with the...
ROMANS: Bear Stearns this week.
DOBBS: ...the Bear Stearns deal. I mean...
ROMANS: And also the Bain Capital, Rahway, 3Com...
DOBBS: ...it is -- and 3Com, which the CFIUS should take two minutes to meet and reject and continue -- and Henry Paulson, the Treasury secretary, says he wants to recuse himself. The man is an absolute -- I mean he is being absolutely derelict. He's the Treasury secretary. He doesn't have to recuse himself. He knows on its face it's an idiotic thing to approve and he should take steps to simply dissuade the Communist Chinese -- period.
ROMANS: We're expecting a letter from several senators tomorrow, Lou -- not to the Treasury secretary, because he's recused himself, but to a deputy secretary saying they're against that deal.
DOBBS: Yes...
ROMANS: The Rahway/3Com deal.
DOBBS: And to be clear, to all the -- OK, we'll go to -- with imbeciles right now, who consider themselves free traders at any cost, I'm not talking about protectionism here. I'm not talking about economic isolationism, because I believe profoundly in international trade. But I also believe in pursuing the national interests, just as China does and has great strictures on foreign investment there, as does every other major developed nation.
It is time for this country, this administration and this Congress to wake up to what is the national interest and the common good -- period.
ROMANS: One of these economists today told me we're at the beginning, Lou, of a five to 10-year trend of all of those dollars from our trade deficits and petrodollars, frankly, coming back from government-owned entities buying up U.S. companies.
DOBBS: Sure. Because we are at a stage in which we are watching the that amazing amount of national debt and foreign trade debt, which now exceeds $6 trillion. It's rising faster than the national debt. And it is a crisis for this country, and certainly for a leadership in this country that is simply overwhelmed by the challenges. And I hope that at some point, they will find themselves up to meeting those challenges, rather than recusing their little darling selves.
Thank you.
Christine Romans.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight -- do you believe this administration has the diplomatic and economic skills to deal with the fire sale of American assets made possible by years of failed faith-based U.S. free trade policies?
Yes or no?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com.
We'll have the results upcoming.
Next here, just about everything is made in Communist China, it seems, including parts of the border fence that is supposed to be being built on our border with Mexico. They're not doing so well, but they're importing more of that good old Chinese steel. And the New York Senate about to hold a special session to block Governor Eliot Spitzer's outrageous proposal to give away driver's license to illegal aliens.
And preaching Islamist religious hatred right here in America, funded by Saudi money?
We'll have the full report.
Stay with us.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Concerns tonight that Saudi-run schools in this country are teaching religious hatred. U.S. officials now say a Saudi school just outside our capital and funded by the Saudi royal family may be exporting messages of religious extremism.
Brian Todd has more on that story from Alexandria, Virginia -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, a group from the U.S. government now wants the State Department to pressure the Saudi government to at least temporarily shut down this school right behind me. It's the Islamic Saudi Academy in Alexandria, Virginia. It is funded by the Saudi government.
The U.S. panelists from the government want this because they say that an effort to get information about the textbooks in question, both here and in Saudi Arabia, that they were essentially stone- walled. They were not given any information that, in fact, hate-filled texts had been taken out of these textbooks, and they want to verify that.
Now, what kind of texts are we talking about here?
Well, this U.S. government panel cited a report that mentioned a textbook used two years ago in Saudi schools. And here's a passage from that textbook: "The hour of judgment will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them."
Now, in our discussions with Saudi officials today, they claim that all of those passages have been taken out of textbooks -- at least the ones used here in the United States.
We came to this school earlier today and spoke to a school administrator. He said the same thing.
DAVID KOVALIK, ADMINISTRATOR, ISLAMIC SAUDI ACADEMY: There are no such passages that preach hatred or intolerance to any other faith or any other people. That's -- that's not what we're here for. We're here to teach a values-based education.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TODD: But verifying that is actually fairly difficult. A student here gave us this textbook, which is a fifth grade book on Islam and the Koran. We went over it with a translator. We found no really inflammatory passages.
But a known critic of the Saudi royal family gave us this book, which says is a ninth grade book here. And he translated a passage for us which does mention Muslims killing Jews.
So, Lou, it is a very difficult process to actually verify that all the hate-filled text has been taken out of the books. The Saudis claim that it has been. You know, you'd have to go through just about every book in the school to know for sure.
DOBBS: Yes. And, in addition to the Saudi academy, as you know, Brian, there are great concerns that mosques across the country and the imams, nearly all -- nearly all of them reportedly trained in the Wahabi sect of Islamism. And that raises great concerns because of the violent nature of what is the Wahabi beliefs.
TODD: That's certainly true. And this school has been accused of that for some years now. We did a report three years ago on this very school using some of the same texts. At that time, they said they were working to take out some of this text. They say it takes a long time.
Again, I guess, the jury is still out on that.
DOBBS: Yes. When it takes a long time to remove hate from one's teachings, there is a profound problem that we should be focusing on in this -- focusing upon in this nation.
Thank you very much.
Brian Todd.
We appreciate it.
Turning now to increasing opposition to New York Governor Eliot Spitzer's outrageous proposal to give away driver's licenses to illegal aliens.
New York State senators meeting in special session Monday to block his plan.
Republican Senator John Flanagan fighting the proposal.
And he joins us here tonight.
Senator, good to have you with us.
JOHN FLANAGAN (R), NEW YORK STATE SENATE: Lou, thank you very much.
DOBBS: Let me ask you what I've been asking Democrats and Republicans, assemblymen and county clerks and senators -- what in the world is this governor thinking about? FLANAGAN: I'm not sure he's thinking at all. I mean when we -- this policy came out in September. We had already acted in the Senate in June. I followed the court of appeals case that came out and we introduced in past legislation to actually put into law what the regulations were.
I honestly -- it would be very difficult for me to fathom what the governor is thinking because I've been in office 21 years. I've gotten more e-mails, phone calls and letters in violent and vehement opposition to policy.
DOBBS: Yes. Well, you mentioned in June the Senate passing legislation to strengthen -- to strengthen requirements in order to obtain a driver's license in the State of New York. The state assembly has taken no action on that legislation.
What's going on there?
FLANAGAN: The assembly is loathe to move on issues like this. We -- I think one of the things that they lose sight of -- and a lot people are losing sight of -- is that driving is still a privilege. It's not a right. We have a very set standard set of rules and regulations and laws guiding how people can drive. And we make sure that you have to meet stringent requirements.
The governor is trying to throw that out the window. And I certainly can't understand it. And I know my constituents can't, either.
DOBBS: I talked with two Democratic assemblywomen here earlier this week -- both absolutely opposed, talking with democratically -- Democratic county clerks, elected, who are in absolute opposition. I can't find a very large group of people in elected office and the governor's party who is supporting it.
FLANAGAN: You know, I think this speaks volumes about how the governor actually governs. It's his idea, so he believes it's good simply because it's his idea. He has said -- and he went back in July and said I don't need the legislature. I'm going to govern the way I want. I'm going to use my agencies.
He's rammed this down the throats of the public or is, at least, trying to. There has been no hearings. We're the first one to have a hearing on the subject -- no transparency and no involvement of the public.
DOBBS: Well, you're going to have a special session Monday, correct?
FLANAGAN: Yes.
DOBBS: In the state capital.
What's going to happen as a result?
FLANAGAN: Well, we have a couple of different pieces of legislation. I'm sure there's going to be a very extensive debate on this. We had a seven hour hearing on Monday -- four-and-a-half hours of question and answers with the commissioner of Motor Vehicles. And it's going to -- it's going to get a lot of coverage. And, frankly, it should, because, again, this is -- what is happening now should have happened months ago. We're, you know, it's sort of like the horse is out of the gate and you're trying to catch it and bring it back in.
DOBBS: Right.
FLANAGAN: The governor threw this out there -- and let's not forget the fact that for the first nine months of his administration -- we shouldn't fool anybody -- they were planning this. This is all secretively done and then all of a sudden thrown out to the public in September. They never came to the legislature. They never came to the senate. They never came to the chair of the transportation committee. They never sought the input of anybody.
DOBBS: You know, this governor referred to those who are opposed to this an anti-immigrant. The governor could have said a lot of things in response to the criticism. But when he says it's anti- immigrant to oppose this kind of this idiocy, this kind of outrageous, arrogant nonsense that's in direct opposition to the interests of New York State citizens, you know, I think the man is scurrilous. I find him to be lower than a toad's belly. And I had respect for this man as attorney general.
FLANAGAN: Well, he operated quite differently when he was attorney general because he actually had to enforce the law. I think not only has he violated a New York State statute in doing this, I think he's violating federal law. And, in many respects, I just don't think he cares. You know, again, there was no input sought from anybody who might be affected by this.
DOBBS: Is there anyone in the state capital -- is there a -- does the governor have a cousin, an old friend who can say, you know, you're being a damned fool here, it's time to get -- to get smart and start thinking about the people you're supposed to represent?
FLANAGAN: He's got a staff around him. But all you have to do -- look at -- look at the reaction from the public. Look at the reaction from people like you. And you're hearing it from people like me and the folks that we represent.
DOBBS: You know, and talking -- I mentioned the assemblywomen who were here, Democrats. The fact of the matter is they're -- they tell me their constituents -- and I'm hearing this from everyone in the assembly, everyone in the senate I've talked with -- their constituents already -- they're outraged.
FLANAGAN: I think people are outraged for a number of reasons, one of which is why can't people legally go through the process?
Why do we have to confer a benefit on people?
And then you and I and everyone else, we are actually held to a higher standard. They're held to a lower standard. That's not the way it should be.
DOBBS: Well, Jenny Fields, Assemblywoman Eddington have come in here -- it's going to be interesting, I have to say this, to see the depth and dimensions of his arrogance and to see what can be done.
Thank you very much for being here.
FLANAGAN: Appreciate it.
DOBBS: And we will be talking, I'm sure, along the way.
FLANAGAN: Yes, we will. And we're going to keep fighting.
DOBBS: Good for you.
Coming up next, a former federal deportation officer will tell us the inside story of how the federal government has simply permitted dangerous illegal alien criminals to be deported, to return to our streets -- cross the borders, return to our streets and commit more crimes in our nation.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We've just received word that Owensboro, Kentucky is directly in the path of what is being described as an F3 tornado.
We want to go to the CNN Storm Center right now and our Chad Myers, who has the very latest and a warning for the residents of Owensboro, Kentucky -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Lou, it certainly could be such. This storm has been rotating for a very long time now and has trees knocked down all the way to Owensboro. And the storm is getting just now to the city of Owensboro, Kentucky.
So this is why I'm the most concerned about this at this point in time. You only have a few minutes, Owensboro, to take cover right now; Louisville, as well.
This storm is rotating on your western doorstep and there's a tornado warning for you. You need to be taking cover immediately. You do not have time to get away from this storm. Take cover where you are right now -- in a basement, the lowest level of your house or even any kind of a closet that you can get as many walls between you and the outside as possible. These are very dangerous storms or I wouldn't be breaking in and telling you, Lou. This is a big time deal.
DOBBS: A big time deal. We want to again say very clearly Owensboro -- a community of 50,000 south of Louisville -- directly in the path. A matter of moments. Chad Myers, our meteorologist, projecting that it will be hit, as well as Louisville, Kentucky.
So please follow Chad Myers' counsel and advice -- get to shelter right now. There are live pictures of the tumultuous skies over Louisville, Kentucky.
Again, folks in Owensboro, Kentucky -- get to shelter. An F3 tornado suspected to be directly -- headed directly for your community.
Thank you.
Well, it will come as no surprise to our viewers that the federal government is failing miserably keeping trying to keep illegal criminal aliens off our streets in this country.
Ames Holbrook has witnessed those failures firsthand, a federal deportation officer for Immigration & Naturalization and now author of the book, "The Deported," joining us.
Thank you very much.
Good to have you with us.
JAMES HOLBROOK, AUTHOR, "THE DEPORTER": Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS: The story you portray here is a federal government that doesn't mean business at all when it comes to the deportation -- first rounding up and then deporting and keeping criminal illegal aliens out of this country.
HOLBROOK: That's exactly right, Lou.
What's going on right now is once we apprehend these guys -- and I'm talking about aggravated felons. We're talking about rapists, murderers, child molesters -- we then, once they have a legally binding warrant of deportation in their files, we then seek permission from their own country to send them back.
But guess what?
Their home countries don't want them. And at this point, our government says well, all right. In that case, we'll set them free here in the United States on our streets, so they can continue to rape and murder and molest children on our soil.
DOBBS: You begin the book with the story of a man named Rodolfo, a career criminal, convictions -- eight felony convictions, everything from burglary to battery. You had him in custody and were ordered to let him go.
I mean that's incredible.
HOLBROOK: It's incredible, but, unfortunately, if you're a deportation officer, you know it all too well. Our government is enabling these foreign countries to plant and maintain their assassins on our soil to kill us from the inside. And, again, I'm not being abstract. I'm talking about murders and rapists -- the works. DOBBS: We have seen estimates on the number of criminal illegal aliens in this country -- we're talking about serious criminal illegal aliens in this country -- ranging from half a million to 600,000 on the streets, with something like an effective task force from ICE out there of 3,000 agents. This is, by any -- by any analysis, a hopeless effort for the part of ICE without significant increases in staff and resources, isn't it?
HOLBROOK: Well, Lou, you're right on the money. We need -- we need more agents. We need more investigators. We need a whole lot more deportation officers -- up from hundreds to thousands.
But, number one, we need to make sure that when we catch these guys -- these horrible criminals -- that we force feed them to their home countries and don't take no for an answer, the way our president and Congress are doing right now. Otherwise, we can round them all up. As long as we're taking them back into our community, we're not doing any good.
DOBBS: You know, in talking with Border Patrol agents today, ICE agents, they're very proud of their responsibilities and what they are able to accomplish. They are also extraordinarily frustrated at what they are not permitted to do by direction of the Department of Homeland Security, the Justice Department and this administration.
What in the world is this country to do to secure our borders, to have an effective immigration policy and to remove dangerous criminal illegal aliens from our streets?
HOLBROOK: Well, what we need to do right away is make our politicians accountable, force them to crack down on these defiant nations who refuse to take their criminals back. And we can do that by cutting off aid, cutting off trade, refusing to issue visas to these country's. We've done it before. When I was on, we did it to Guyana. It works. So we should do it again.
DOBBS: And, of course, we might have to consider what do with the criminal corporate employers of these people attracting the millions of illegal aliens into this country.
HOLBROOK: Well, we've got a lot of things to solve. But number one is we get these criminals out of here, Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
Ames Holbrook, thanks for being here.
The book is "The Deported."
It's on book shelves in all the finest bookstores all around the country.
HOLBROOK: Thanks a lot, Lou.
DOBBS: We appreciate your being with us.
Ames Holbrook.
HOLBROOK: I appreciate you staying in the fight, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Up next at the top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Thanks, Lou.
Coming up, bombs rip through a crowd cheering the return from exile of Pakistan's Benazir Bhutto. More than 100 people are now dead, 200 are hurt. We're going to go live to Pakistan.
Also, could religious conservatives support a pro-abortion rights, pro-gay rights presidential candidate like Rudy Giuliani?
I'll ask one of the most influential Evangelical leaders in the country.
And critics call it Hillary Clinton's gift to hippies -- a controversial proposal to preserve memories from Woodstock. Republicans say hippies will be cheering and gathering their "groovy beads" for a trip down memory lane.
All that and a lot more coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM".
DOBBS: Bringing those hippies, Evangelicals and just about everybody else together. It's going to be quite an election in 2008.
Thanks, Wolf.
We're looking forward to it.
And the results of our poll coming up here next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our poll results -- 99 percent of you do not believe this administration has the diplomatic or economic skills to deal with a fire sale of American assets made possible by years of failed U.S. free trade policies.
Let's take a look -- a quick look at some of your thoughts.
Bob in Pennsylvania saying: "Lou, I got my new voter registration. I'm now an Independent. How free I feel. It is amazing. Bless you."
And, indeed, it is.
Reggie in Arkansas: "The politicians in Washington just misunderstood when someone asked if they wanted to serve the people. They thought they were supposed to serve us up instead." Thanks for sending us your thoughts.
Thanks for being with us tonight.
Join us here tomorrow.
November 5th, we're going to 7:00 Eastern as a beginning time. Remember that.
Thanks for watching.
Good night from New York.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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