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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Illegals and Licenses; Backroom Maneuvering; Yahoo and China
Aired November 07, 2007 - ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf.
Tonight, a new CNN opinion poll showing the war on the middle class is now the number one issue for voters in this country. Our political leaders still failing to focus on our working men and women and their families. They're too busy selling themselves to corporate elites and socio-ethnocentric interests. We'll have complete coverage and disturbing new evidence that one of our biggest Internet companies has refused to support human rights and freedom of speech in communist China. We'll have that report.
And Republican and Democratic lawmakers, well they're launching a counter offensive against those socio-ethnocentric special interests saying corporate America -- those members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans now demanding border security first before any changes can be made at all to U.S. immigration policy.
The lawmakers leading that fight, Congressman Brian Bilbray, Republican, Congressman Heath Shuler, Democrat. They're among our guests here tonight. Join us please for all of that, all the day's news, and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, November 07, 2007. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
Good evening, everybody. President Bush, French President Sarkozy today presenting a united front against Iran's rising nuclear threats and defiance. At a joint news conference in Virginia, President Bush and President Sarkozy demanded Iran give up its nuclear weapons program. As President Bush and President Sarkozy met, Iran's president, Ahmadinejad, escalated his confrontation with the rest of the world. Ahmadinejad declaring Iran's nuclear program is now, as he put it, irreversible. We have extensive coverage tonight beginning with Ed Henry at the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Iran certainly at the top of the agenda, the White House eager to showcase these pictures of the American and French presidents standing together at Mount Vernon, signaling a new chapter in this alliance. A sharp contrast, of course, to the bitter division between this White House and the former French president, Jacques Chirac, over the war in Iraq. Mr. Bush declaring today he now has what he believes to be a partner in peace, specifically in trying to stop Iran's thirst for nuclear weapons. It was a point Mr. Bush made at their joint press conference in Virginia and also reinforced by President Sarkozy during a rousing speech to a joint meeting of Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We talked about Iran and the desire to work jointly to convince the Iranian regime to give up their nuclear weapons ambitions for the sake of peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The prospect of an Iran armed with nuclear weapons is unacceptable for France. The Iranian people who come from a great civilization deserve better than the toughen sanctions and growing isolation to which their leaders condemn it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: But that message of unity overshadowed a bit by another foreign policy crisis. Pakistan, after days of refusing to place a phone call to Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, Mr. Bush revealing today that he finally placed that phone call and he urged Musharraf to hold free and fair elections and finally take off his military uniform. Lou?
DOBBS: Ed Henry from the White House. Thank you very much, Ed.
In Pakistan, the crisis over General Musharraf's second coup is worsening. Thousands of anti-government protesters in the country continue to defy President Musharraf and his declaration of a state of emergency that began last Saturday. Supporters of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto (ph) today fought with riot police in the streets of Islamabad. Bhutto says the state of emergency amounts to martial law accusing General Musharraf of being a dictator.
The Iranian president today declared Iran will not make any concessions in its nuclear confrontation with the rest of the world. President Ahmadinejad also said Iran has now achieved its significant goal in enriching uranium. Enriched uranium, of course, the key requirement for the development of nuclear weapons.
Aneesh Raman reports from Cairo on Iran's rising nuclear threat and defiance. Aneesh?
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, good evening. With the French president in Washington talking tough on Iran, the Islamic republic today made a major nuclear announcement, saying it had right now 3,000 centrifuges working to enrich uranium. That is a key number because experts have said with 3,000 centrifuges, Iran could produce one small nuclear weapon within a year. Iran of course vehemently denies of pursuing nuclear weapons, but continues to defy U.N. demands to suspend its program. Bolstered it would seem by a recent visit to Tehran by the Russian president. Iran's president today said he could not care less if the U.N. slapped Iran with a third round of sanctions. What we wait for next, another report from the U.N.'s watchdog, the IAEA, expected later this month. Lou?
DOBBS: Aneesh Raman reporting from Cairo.
The U.S. military tonight claiming a major success in its efforts to develop missile defenses against Iran and other nations. A Navy cruiser off the coast of Hawaii fired missiles that destroyed two simulated ballistic missiles, but serious questions remain about the reliability and accuracy of American missile defenses and whether they will actually work during an attack. Jamie McIntyre has the report from the Pentagon. Jamie?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, once again the U.S. military has shown that it can hit a missile with a missile, in this case, two missiles with two missiles. This latest successful test is of the sea-based (ph) system aimed at short-range and intermediate-range missiles. The USS Lake Eerie (ph) fired those interceptor missiles, knocking down two interceptors -- two target missiles fired from Hawaii when they were 100 miles above the Pacific Ocean.
In this particular missile system now, the U.S. is 11 hits out of 13 attempts. And it comes on the heels of successful tests of the short-range Thad (ph) missile defense system and the longer-range midcourse ground-based system as well. What this shows, though, Lou, is that while the chances of shooting a missile down with any one system is problematic when you can layer the systems and have a chance of shooting a missile in its buse (ph) phase, its midcourse and even in its terminal phase, it increases the chances. Each one of these tests is getting more complicated. This one involved two missiles at one time. The next test, by the way, is going to involve a Japanese cruiser trying to do the same thing because Japan is an ally with the U.S. in this sea-based (ph) system -- Lou.
DOBBS: All right, Jamie. Thank you very much -- Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Turning now to the war in Iraq. Another of our troops has died. A soldier died from a non-combat related illness. Eleven of our troops and one Defense Department civilian have been killed in Iraq so far this month; 3,856 of our troops killed since the war began; 28,451 of our troops wounded' 12,770 of them seriously.
Coming up here next, outrage in Congress over a sudden cut in funding for border security. It was supposed to be a done deal. Lisa Sylvester has the report on broken faith. Lisa?
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, behind closed doors, Democrats eliminate more than $3 billion in funding for border security, that despite overwhelming support for the measure -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you. We'll look forward to the report.
The battle over Governor Eliot Spitzer's outrageous proposal to give drivers' licenses to illegal aliens is spreading across this entire country. We'll have that report.
And new charges tonight that one of this country's biggest Internet companies has put profits ahead of human rights and its efforts to do business in communist China.
Stay with us. We'll be back with that and a great deal more straight ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Republican lawmakers are outraged tonight at backroom maneuvering by Senate Democrats and their leadership that could further jeopardize security along our nation's borders. The Democratic leadership cut a $3 billion border security amendment from the Defense Appropriations Bill. And as Lisa Sylvester now reports, Republicans want assurances that border security hasn't been abandoned altogether by the Democratic leadership.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (voice-over): The Senate voted overwhelmingly 95-1 to spend $3 billion on border security. Money to pay for, among other things, 700 miles of fencing, 5,000 more full-time border patrol agents, and more detention beds for illegal aliens. The funding was included in an amendment to the Defense Appropriations Bill, but in conference committee a select few senators dropped the measure, sparking Republican outrage.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: This would pass overwhelmingly on a bipartisan basis in the light of day, but once you get behind closed doors in smoke-filled rooms, then people begin to play political games by pulling it out.
SYLVESTER: Republicans including moderates on immigration reform say border security must be the starting point. A way of earning back the trust of the American people.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: This is a chance to show the public that we haven't all lost our minds, that we can still find common ground on something essential to American national security. That's securing our borders.
SYLVESTER: Democrats on the Hill say they removed the measure from the defense spending bill because the money has been appropriated as part of another bill, homeland security appropriations legislation where Democrats say it belongs. But the Homeland Security Bill will likely be vetoed by the president because of its price tag. Shutting down all avenues for border security funding. Republicans accused Democrats of political gains that will backfire.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: Those political reasons I suggest to you don't begin to rise to the level of the anger of the American people when they realize what the Democrats have done here.
SYLVESTER: The funding for border security passed nearly unanimously in both spending bills, but despite the overwhelming support, money for tough enforcement might never be signed into law.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: While the conference committee took out funding for border security, they left in more than 2,000 earmarks totaling more than $5 billion, including money for a golf course. One set of aides saying they're sending money, but to the wrong green zone. Lou? DOBBS: You know I really do. I love both political parties. I think they're just wonderful. I just wonder how these people, Senator Harry Reid, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, President Bush, I don't even -- I can't imagine how they can look a young person sitting in a civics class in this country, a social studies class in this country and look them straight in the eye. I -- is there no shame left in that city?
SYLVESTER: Well, Lou, I have to tell you this is the dysfunctional side of politics that we're seeing up close and personal. Here you've got a case where all -- just about nearly every senator supports border security funding. They go behind closed doors and suddenly it's not there.
DOBBS: You know, if this is the way they behave without -- without daylight let's just keep the torch on them. You do a great job of that Lisa. We thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
It's not so much dysfunctional in my opinion as unprincipled, but it's all of the above, I think, in this case.
Let's go to our poll question tonight. Are you outraged that Senate Democrats behind closed doors cut that $3 billion in border security funds? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. Results we'll have here just later in the broadcast.
New York Governor Eliot Spitzer, one of my very favorite people. I know I'm one of his. Well he has that outrageous plan to give away drivers' licenses to illegal aliens. By the way, it is just opposed by an overwhelmingly number of Americans, citizens of New York, leaders in the city and the state of New York and across the country. But Prince Eliot presses on. And as Bill Tucker now reports, a resolution has been introduced in Congress to stop any state from granting drivers' licenses now to any illegal alien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seventy-six percent of Americans oppose giving drivers' licenses to illegal aliens according to an October CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll. It's an issue that would seem subtle. One Republican congressman from Iowa wants to make sure that it is. He introduced a simple resolution in the House on Tuesday.
It says quote, "It is the sense of the House of Representatives that states should not issue drivers' licenses or other government- issued photo identification to illegal aliens."
REP. TOM LATHAM (R), IOWA: I believe this is just a fundamental issue of right and wrong. And to give people official recognition when they come in and break the law and their first act in this country is simply wrong. And I think the American people understand that and agree with that.
TUCKER: Latham says that in states like Iowa where all you need to vote is a driver's license, voter fraud becomes a serious and real concern. More than 40 co-sponsors including three Democrats agree with him. However, it seems unlikely that the resolution will ever be approved. Congressional sources say they don't believe Speaker Pelosi intends to allow any debate on the subject. The speaker's office had no comment on the resolution.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Perhaps maybe the House members should take note of what happened in New York State in Tuesday's elections. In New York, Democrats who were up for reelection found it important, maybe even expedient, to declare their opposition to Governor Spitzer's plan to give illegal aliens' drivers' licenses, Lou. That is if they wanted to keep their job and their seat.
DOBBS: And those in opposition to the governor won?
TUCKER: Yes, they did.
DOBBS: Well, that's -- there's -- you know, there's a political lesson that just about anyone can follow.
TUCKER: Easy civics lesson, indeed.
DOBBS: All right. The fact civics lesson -- we need a lesson in ethics and principles, in basic national values. This is just -- it is reprehensible that this is even a matter of discussion in this country. But I've got a great idea for anyone on Capitol Hill that would like to provide a great public service to the nation because what Bill Tucker referred to in terms of concerns about voter fraud, that's driving what is happening with drivers' licenses for illegal aliens in this country.
This is a planned, purposeful fraud on voting. And you -- and Congress have an opportunity before 2008 to stop a horrible spectacle that could unfold if you do not make very strict requirements for voting registration in this country. And if you don't, we are setting ourselves, this nation, up for great trouble. Because we've got other geniuses in this country just like the -- like Governor Spitzer in this state who will without principle, without concern for this country expose us to precisely that. And if that happens, it is a democracy absolutely in jeopardy.
Bill Tucker, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Well there were some lessons, further lessons in politics. Local election results today showing that illegal immigration is a crisis when -- which American's voters simply want fixed. In New York, for example, voters had their say over the governor's outrageous plan to give those drivers' licenses to illegal aliens. Senate Majority Leader John Bruno saying GOP victories were the result of voter rejection of Spitzer. The Democratic Erie County clerk recently appointed by Governor Spitzer won reelection.
She had been critical of the Spitzer plan, said she would report to the county sheriff anyone who applied for a license without a valid visa. Also in New York, Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy at the forefront of fighting illegal immigration won by an overwhelming majority. When I say overwhelming, I mean overwhelming. Ninety-six percent of the voters voting for him. That's overwhelming.
Levy is a Democrat, a leader in the local fight against the impact and the problems caused by illegal immigration. In Prince William County, Virginia voters there reelected Corey Stewart as chairman of the Board of County Supervisors. Last month Stewart led the drive to approve a tough crackdown on illegal immigration. In Hazleton, Pennsylvania, Mayor Lou Barletta and his running mates were swept into a third term, 90 percent of the vote.
Mayor Barletta of course has been a national leader for local community action to fight the illegal immigration crisis at the local level. Hazleton's ordinance cracking down on illegal immigration and businesses who serve illegal aliens rules unconstitutional by a federal judge, which is now under appeal and will be fought all the way to the Supreme Court. Quite a Tuesday for an off election day.
Time now for some of your thoughts. Sandy in Virginia, "Lou, so glad they put you in prime time, it's about time. Keep the heat on all the topics that make our politicians squirm. We can only hope they will listen. And yes, I too am now an independent." Thank you very much and I guarantee you there is no backup among anyone on this staff.
"Lou, thank you for being a voice for me and so many others. It's about time someone spoke out about the issues that are destroying our values and our Constitution." Well they're trying, but we're going to stop them, aren't we? We're going to do it together.
And Jon in North Carolina, "Lou, great article today -- referring to my column on CNN.com -- America desperately needs on independent candidate for president, one who isn't a slave to special interest groups and who hasn't sold their soul to corporations either." You can read that commentary, by the way, the "November Surprise", at LouDobbs.com.
And anyone whose e-mail is read here from now on receives a copy of my brand new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit". It is a wonderful book, if I do say so -- oh, I shouldn't do that, should I? Bill Tucker, what are you laughing about?
TUCKER: It's a great book. It's a great book.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Absolutely.
We'll have more of your thoughts coming up here later in the broadcast.
Up next, some members of Congress are demanding secure borders first. It's incredible. But it is happening and without amnesty, even more incredible. We'll have that report.
And Kitty Pilgrim, incredible in her own right, will report on an American Internet company's giant well pigmy-like principles and giant technology know-how and they supported communist China and why it may go on.
All of that, a lot more when we continue. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The American Internet giant Yahoo continues to face withering criticism for appeasing the government of communist China. And the failure of Yahoo to stand up to Chinese communists leaves Chinese dissidents facing prison. A Chinese journalist Shi Tao is serving a 10-year sentence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (voice-over): A congressional panel says Yahoo provided information to the Chinese government that was used to jail Chinese Internet writers. Congressmen this week blasted Yahoo.
REP. TOM LANTOS (D), CALIFORNIA: While technologically and financially you are giants, morally you are pygmies.
PILGRIM: Jailed journalist Shi Tao's mother told us Yahoo was named in the Chinese court papers. Shi Tao said an e-mail about the anniversary of Tiananmen Square and was arrested.
GAO QUINSHENG, MOTHER OF SHI TAO (through translator): I heard that Yahoo was involved with my son because I read the verdict of my son.
PILGRIM: The wife of imprisoned cyber dissident Wang Xiaoning (ph) has the same accusation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I learned Yahoo has betrayed my husband.
YU LIN, WIFE OF WANG XIAONING (through translator): Yeah, because in the verdict, everyone is talking about Yahoo.
PILGRIM: Yahoo executives apologized to the victims' families for identifying the Internet users, but Yahoo now says it won't have any control about future information. That's because in 2005, Yahoo sold its Chinese operations to the Chinese Internet company Alibaba, Yahoo now says Alibaba controls Yahoo China and the information it gives to the Chinese government.
JERRY YANG, CEO, YAHOO: We are now a minority shareholder and do not control Alibaba or Yahoo China's day-to-day operations.
PILGRIM: Yahoo executives couldn't even say if it was still going on now.
MICHAEL CALLAHAN, GENERAL COUNSEL, YAHOO: As to whether or not there are current law enforcement demands at Yahoo China because of the operational situation I mentioned, we wouldn't be aware of that at this time.
PILGRIM: Congressmen scoffed at the defense saying Yahoo now has a 40 percent stake in Alibaba and four seats on the board of that company.
REP. CHRIS SMITH (R), NEW JERSEY: It does give you kind of a plausible deniability to say oh our affiliate is doing it but not us. You still are major shareholders.
PILGRIM: The human rights group, "Reporters Without Borders", says Yahoo is denying accountability.
LUCIE MORILLON, REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS, USA: They say that Alibaba has the control of the activities in China and that they can't basically do anything.
PILGRIM: Something these women simply don't want to hear.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now many companies such as Yahoo, Google, Microsoft and Cisco (ph) have been under criticism for collaborating with the repressive Chinese government. Congress is trying to legislate what information can be given to foreign governments by U.S. companies. Congressman Chris Smith's bill, the Global Online Freedom Act, would stop U.S. companies from disclosing information in cases like this without U.S. Department of Justice review.
Crude oil prices continue to surge towards the $100 mark, touching $98 a barrel today. The dollar continues its free-fall. The latest sell-off began after communist China hinted it may sell its massive reserve of dollars. The greenback hit new lows. It cost $1.47 to buy one euro, $1.10 to buy one Canadian dollar.
Stocks also fell too. The DOW plunged 360 points, the third biggest loss this year.
Coming up, the mortgage crisis is threatening the survival of our middle class. Will the presidential candidates take any notice? We'll have a special report.
Also, Congress considers a new farm bill that will give billions of dollars of your money to big agricultural and wealthy landowners. We'll have that story.
And Lou will be talking with two congressmen behind a bipartisan plan to secure our borders first before any changes to immigration policy. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, congress again trying to pass legislation, this time to secure the nation's borders. That's right. To secure the borders. A large group of Republicans and Democrats now putting border security first. And they're doing it without amnesty. This is the truth, honest. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ethnocentric special interest groups repeatedly link border security and immigration law enforcement efforts with racism. Perhaps they haven't met Congressman Ciro Rodriguez.
REP. CIRO RODRIGUEZ, (D) TX: I have the distinction of representing more border area than anybody else in the country. Those counties are right next to the border. The needs are tremendous.
WIAN: Rodriguez is one of 44 Democrats and 41 Republicans now sponsoring the SAVE Act. It seeks to secure U.S. borders, require employers to hire only legal workers, and improve immigration law enforcement in the nation's interior.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY, (R) CA: This team says it is now team to finally give the American people what they've asked for in immigration and that is ay bipartisan effort that addresses the issue and puts America's future first and puts partisan politics on the back row where it belongs.
REP. HEATH SHULER, (D) NC: Americans are very upset that their government hasn't taken action. And they have every right to be.
WIAN: The SAVE Act would add 8,000 agents on top of the 6,000 now being hired. The ranks would total 26,000 in five years. It would also add nearly 1,200 Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, pay for more training of local police to help them, hire 13 new federal judges in Border States, and provide 8,000 detention facility beds.
REP. BRAD ELLSWORTH, (D) IN: If it's law enforcement's fault, shame on them. But if it's Congress' fault for not giving them to tools they need to enforce those laws, shame on us. I think we are giving them the tools with this.
WIAN: Another provision would require employers to determine the legal status of their workers through the federal E-Verify program. New hires at large companies would be affected first, within four years all employers would be required to verify the eligibility of every worker. That troubles the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
RANDY JOHNSON, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: We're not sure it's fair to require employers to adopt an entirely new system to existing employees who have already been verified under current law.
WIAN: A law that most agree is irreparably broken.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (on camera): The U.S. Chamber of Commerce says it needs time to study the SAVE Act before it takes a position on the bill. A Malldef (ph) representative said the same thing. And the National Council of La Raza, Lou, did not return our calls.
DOBBS: Well, can -- you know, we can wait and see how they're going to feel about all of this, but meanwhile, let's move ahead to the law itself and see what's going to be done. Casey Wian, thank you, sir. Joining me now, the two congressman who introduced the SAVE Act, the authors of this bill, Congressman Heath Shuler, Democrat, North Carolina, Congressman Brian Bilbray, Republican, California. Gentlemen, good to have you with us.
SHULER: Thanks, Lou.
BILBRAY: Thanks for having us.
DOBBS: I don't know about other folks but when I hear bipartisan these days, I reach for my wallet and start looking for a foxhole. Is this the real deal?
SHULER: It really is, Lou. I mean, we've worked very hard together. It's been about a six to seven month relationship, bipartisan relationship where we've been able to work with members on both sides, ask law enforcement, ask the Border Patrol agents what is important for them and most importantly is listen to the American people and ask them what they're wanting for when it comes to illegal immigration.
And we've been able to put a very good bill together. It was brought by 90 original cosponsors, 46 Republicans and 44 Democrats.
BILBRAY: In fact, remember in this town, four of the opposite party or seven of the opposite party makes it bipartisan. This one is 40 and 40. This is a package I think you haven't seen very often in this town.
DOBBS: No. Absolutely not. Also, I haven't seen much in the way of anything to do with borer security that isn't attached to amnesty, some sort of fancy spin that suggests that it's simply a loss leader for corporate America and the socioethnocentric interest groups that are driving much of what's happening in your time.
Let me show you, though, also what happened with Roy Blunt, your whip, Congressman Bilbray. Here is what he had to say. He said, "The bill introduced today isn't terrible. It's just insufficient." Now what does that mean?
BILBRAY: Well, I am sure he would have loved to add more onto it but the fact is this - I think you're going to see, Roy, support this bill in the end, you've already seen some of his very close allies and just announced they're signing on and I think you're going to see a real consensus of people joining on.
I think the big question is going to be when everybody goes back to their district, why haven't they signed on to 4088, why aren't they part of a team and I think that both Democrats and Republicans are going to be coming on because I think this is a bill that reflects that America wants, not the Washington elite here and the special interests in DC.
DOBBS: Gentlemen, I've got to ask you, Congressman Shuler, you alluded to it. Congressman Bilbray, both of you. What's wrong with that town when 90 congressmen suddenly want to represent the interests of the American people, the will of the majority? Have you people lost your minds?
SHULER: I'm really hoping that along with our 90 other cosponsors, original cosponsors, we'll be able to increase that number over 100 in a very short couple of days. Someone has to stand up. Far too long, people go to Congress, they come to Washington, they stop listening to the American people, they stop listening to their constituents. But we've been able to lead the way along with our original other cosponsors, to lead the way in saying we are listening to the American people. We listen to what Lou Dobbs has to say.
DOBBS: Well, I appreciate that and I think most Americans appreciate it. But there is such - there is such, and again, Congressman Bilbray, you refer to this. I mean, we don't trust our government in our country or right now. As you well know, there's never been a great disconnect between the folks we've elected to serve the public interest and the folks.
Is this going to happen? Will the Democratic leadership which has pushed on Capitol Hill for comprehensive immigration reform, i.e., amnesty by any definition. They're really going to let you move this legislation ahead, gentlemen?
BILBRAY: Lou, you watched Brian Bilbray and Heath Shuler get elected and come to Washington. We were sent to Washington to do things differently. And frankly I think Heath knows that his constituents, I know my constituents expect me to do more than what the leadership in either party was willing to do or what this town wants done and we're basically making the system work and that's - represent the people that elected us, not the people back here in DC.
DOBBS: Well, gentlemen, you are blazing a new path in that town, at least a new path over the course of the past 20 years. We're all wishing you all the very best. We thank you very much.
BILBRAY: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Congressman Shuler, Congressman Bilbray, thank you very much.
SHULER: Thank you for everything you're doing Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Up next, I'll be talking with John Culberson. He's got this crazy idea about zero tolerance for illegal aliens crossing the border in Laredo, Texas. My gosh. What an idea. By the way, it's been a policy that's been ignored in this country for nearly 50 years. It's working, by the way. Maybe there's some correlation.
And next, Kitty Pilgrim will be here. She'll have a report on the rising economic pressure on this country's middle class and what the presidential candidates are doing about it. Just about the same as the folks already in office. Stay with us. We'll have us and a great deal more. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KITTY PILGRIM, CNN HOST: Prices are spiking at the gas pump. Oil prices have headed towards $100 a barrel. The mortgage meltdown, the credit crunch, falling home prices. Well, troubles in the economy are part of the war on the middle class. Could the economy knock the war in Iraq and terrorism off the top of the list of issues for the election in 2008? Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN ANALYST (voice-over): Here are issues voters now rate as the most important in their vote for president. The economy now tops the list. Just ahead of the war in Iraq.
MARK ZANDI, MOODY'S ECONOMY.COM: At the heart of our current economic problems is the evaporating housing market, the plunge in sales, construction and most importantly, house prices.
SCHNEIDER: When the economy is bad, the economy is the issue. That was certainly the case in 1980 when Ronald Reagan got elected. And in 1992 when Bill Clinton won on the economy, stupid. At the time of those two elections, only about a third of Americans said things were going well in the country. Compare that with the last three presidential elections. In 1996, 2000 and 2004, solid majorities said things were going well. And this year? It looked good in January when 57 percent of Americans thought things were going well. But that number has been dropping all year. It's now only 42 percent.
ZANDI: The job growth has slowed quite sharply over the course of the past six, 12 months. And at this current rate of job growth unemployment will continue to rise.
SCHNEIDER: Right now, the more important you think the economy is, the more likely you are to vote Democratic. In a trial heat between the two front-runners, Hillary Clinton leads Giuliani by 27 points among people who think the economy is an extremely important issue. She's five points ahead among those who think that the economy is very important. While Giuliani leads among those who say that the economy is moderately important or not important.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (on camera): Democrats like to remind voters that the economy was booming in the 1990s. That wasn't a boom, Republicans say. That was a bubble. Kitty?
PILGRIM: Bill, if the economy is among the top issues, will the Democrats be able to retain their edge?
SCHNEIDER: Yeah. Well, this is an issue where the Democrats live. I mean, they've been running on the economy since 1932. They may be divided over Iran and divided over Iraq, but on economic issues, the Democrats always find their voice and they run hard on that issue. But it will be a big test for Democrats. Because Bill Clinton tried to change the Democrats' approach to the economy. He said the era of big government is over. He taught them the lesson of fiscal responsibility. And his wife talks about that now. So the question is has the Democratic Party really changed as a result of the Clinton experience? Or are they the same old Democratic Party? We're going to see.
PILGRIM: Interesting stuff. Thanks very much, Bill Schneider.
A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. We're asking are you outraged that Senate Democrats behind closed doors cut $3 billion in border security funds? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the votes in just a few minutes.
Up next, we'll have Lou's interview with John Culberson. The congressman tells Lou why the U.S. Border Patrol is enforcing immigration laws that homeland security officials are ignoring. And farm subsidies for gentlemen farmers to grow crops that we don't need. It's the latest example of the best government money can buy.
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LOU DOBBS, HOST: The Border Patrol's new zero tolerance policy, Operation Streamline, is proving to be a very effective tool in the fight against illegal immigration. Imagine that, under this program, those caught, detained in prison for at least three months, and then deported. Congressman John Culberson of Texas is the guy behind it. He wants the program expanded.
And it is good to have you here. Congressman, this is -- is this really working as well as you all and the Border Patrol are saying?
REP. JOHN CULBERSON (R), TEXAS: Lou, law enforcement works. Common sense confirms what the reality on the ground is now, telling us in the Del Rio sector, Lou, where zero tolerance Operation Streamline has been in effect now for about 14 months.
The Del Rio sector has seen about a 75 percent drop in the crime rate. They have seen a dramatic drop in the illegal crossing of about 66 percent. In fact, the officers in Del Rio, Lou, tell us that they can spot the edge of the Del Rio sector by where the trash picks up, because the illegals are simply bypassing Del Rio.
DOBBS: Well, this -- let's go to this. First, I mean, this policy has been on the books...
CULBERSON: That is right.
DOBBS: ... for 50 years.
CULBERSON: That is right. This is a -- this law was enacted, this is Title 8, Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, Lou. It was enacted in 1952 and it has been ignored by Michael Chertoff and the higher-ups at Homeland Security. And I finally got sick and tired of it.
I was action. I want that border secured and sealed against criminals and illegal aliens, as does the local community. So I went straight to the sector chief in Laredo as a member of the Homeland Security Appropriations Subcommittee. I said, Chief, I will help you find the money. I will get my committee colleagues to help. If you, Chief Carillo, in Laredo, will implement zero tolerance in Laredo, as they are doing in Del Rio, I will help you.
DOBBS: You probably got him in trouble with his superiors at the Border Patrol, didn't you?
CULBERSON: Yes. Probably so, I'm going to protect that good man. I'm going to protect Chief Randy Hill in the Del Rio sector. This is a cooperative effort between the U.S. Marshals, the federal judges, the prosecutors, and the Border Patrol.
But those law enforcement officers on the ground, on the border, on the front lines of the war on terror, Lou, they are not the problem, it is headquarters.
DOBBS: It is headquarters, it is the policy, it is this administration. Let's be really honest, Congressman...
CULBERSON: Absolutely.
DOBBS: ... it is this president. It is the Chamber of Commerce. It is the Business Roundtable. It is a sorry bunch of son of a guns who serve in office, particularly on the Senate side, if I may say, who think that can instead of secure a border, provide amnesty. They look at it as a freeway instead of a border.
Could I -- I would like to go to one other issue just in that regard. Lisa Sylvester reporting tonight that lawmakers basically removing $3 billion from the border security funding for -- in the defense appropriations bill, that backdoor deal by the Democratic leadership.
Here is what Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona said. Quote: "The Democrats are playing chicken with President Bush in the matter of national security, and that is wrong." Now Senator Kyl is one of the most gentle, soft-spoken fellows. Do you see it the same way?
CULBERSON: No question. Democrats have had an open border policy for some time. Unfortunately Homeland Security has been focused on customer service to the foreign national. And the customer is the American people. And Homeland Security needs to remember that, that the customer is protecting our kids and our families instead of the convenience of the foreign national.
And no question, Lou, that we need to make sure those officers on the ground -- the Border Patrol officers, we need to beef them up, but also the local law -- the local sheriffs on borders.
DOBBS: Well, is this going to stand, do you think? Do you think the Democratic leadership is going to get away with that?
CULBERSON: Lou, they might, they just might. And it is just tragic if they do. But remember that Homeland Security has so much money on hand that I have been able to identify an actual surplus at Homeland Security of unspent first responder money anywhere between $3 billion to $5 billion that is backed up in the Treasury, unspent for over three years, Lou. So there is money there.
DOBBS: They will probably put that money to good use...
CULBERSON: There is money.
DOBBS: ... like trying to design a new screener of some sort that won't be available for another 10 years.
Let me just turn to the issue of Michael Chertoff, this president, who I hold responsible for dereliction of duty in terms of securing the borders. People look at it in terms of illegal immigration, but its first issue is national security and the public safety and the very idea that in the global war on terror we haven't secured our borders and ports.
Yet this administration, you are talking about customers, his number one customer is corporate American and the socio-ethnocentric interest groups that the Democratic leadership looks as their customers.
Where does that leave the American people? What does it augur for the future of this country?
CULBERSON: Well, Lou, unfortunately, I confirmed a long time ago that Homeland Security -- in the mind of Homeland Security bureaucrats, their customer is the foreign national waiting in line.
Homeland Security is more concerned with the inconvenience of waiting in line of Osama bin Laden's cousin waiting out there with his duffel bag. And we need to ship that mindset and make sure they understand the customer is the American people.
But I frankly...
DOBBS: Well, they also shift some other folks. Ramos and Compean, two Border Patrol agents doing their job, are now in prison, being detained, in worse conditions according to many critics then terror suspects held at Guantanamo Bay.
CULBERSON: No question, Lou, that those Border Patrol agents, Ramos and Compean, are being singled out for punishment to intimidate other Border Patrol agents to discourage them from doing their job.
I just gave up, unfortunately, a long time ago on Homeland Security and on the White House and them securing our borders and enforcing the law. My focus now is going straight to the local law enforcement authorities on the border, the sector chief, the Marshals service.
And, frankly, we need action, Lou. And I'm tired of pointing fingers of blame. I want action. That is why I went to the Laredo sector chief, Carlos Carillo, and my next goal is to expand zero tolerance into the Brownsville sector. And, Lou, let me say very quickly, the local community on the river supports zero tolerance. These people that live there, they are moms and dads, they are wage-earners, they are business owners, they want safe streets. They want these criminals and thugs off the street.
Everyone in Brownsville, everyone in Laredo, everyone in Del Rio supports zero tolerance. Because when you are keeping the illegal aliens out, you are keeping out the MS-13 gang members and the drug dealers and the thugs.
So we need to remember the decent, honest people that live along the river who are mostly Hispanic, want safe streets, they support zero tolerance, and you don't need a single new law, Lou.
You don't need new -- you don't need immigration reform, you don't need a new a law. You don't need a single new dollar. You don't need new personnel. You can enforce existing law, this 1952 law with existing resources. All you need is willpower.
And I'm sick and tired of excuses. We need action. And let's go straight to those officers on the border who are ready to help this nation and just bypass the White House. Just forget them, Lou. Go straight to the officers on the border, praise them, support them, and let's get them the resources and support they need to protect this nation.
DOBBS: Well, I can tell you one thing, there are a lot of folks in this country who would like to be able to forget that White House. Congressman Culberson, good to have you with us. We appreciate it.
CULBERSON: Thank you, Lou, for keeping the hot white light of truth on this critical (inaudible) nation. You will never win the war on terror until we secure that border. And I thank you for the great work you are doing in this effort.
DOBBS: Thank you, Congressman. Appreciate it.
CULBERSON: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up next, big pay-off for big farmers. You wouldn't want it any other way. Those farmers who don't even plow. They don't harvest. Kitty Pilgrim will tell us about the big-shot farmers. She'll also have the results of our poll tonight and more of your thoughts. We'll be right back.
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PILGRIM: Billions of dollars in farm subsidies will go to gentlemen farmers from Manhattan to Beverly Hills. And also to big agricultural. The subsidies encourage the growing of crops that we don't need, crops that may contribute to the nation's health problems. Jessica Yellin has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): America's wheat, soy, amber waves of grain. How much should the government pay to support all this? How about almost $300 billion? That's the price of the proposed farm bill over the next five years.
SEN. TOM HARKIN, (D) AGRICULTURAL CHAIRMAN: The bill helps farmers and ranchers who produce an abundance of food and fiber who are who contributing to our nation's energy security.
YELLIN: But critics say not so fast. They insist the wrong people are benefiting.
REV. EARL TRENT, PROGRESSIVE NATIONAL BAPTIST CONVENTION: This is corporate welfare at its ugliest. It's power at its ugliest.
YELLIN: Those who have been trying to reform farm policy for year say six percent of America's farms have gotten 70 percent of government subsidies. That's $120 billion over the last decade. The current system favors massive agricultural corporations because it keeps their costs down. And they have a loud voice in Washington. Agribusiness gave $45 million in political contributions was given last year alone.
REV. DAVID BECKMANN, BREAD FOR THE WORLD: These are people that have their hand in the cookie jar and they're organized to keep their hands -- to get their hand deeper in the cookie jar.
YELLIN: Health advocates say this farm bill would contribute to America's obesity problem. That's because instead of focusing on farms that grow vegetables and fruits, it pours billions into subsidizing crops that are used to make junk food.
DR. NEAL BARNARD, COMMITTEE FOR RESPONSIBLE MEDICINE: That means cheap cheeseburgers, sausage pizza, all of this gets dumped in schools. It's available in the marketplace. Agribusiness gets rich. Kids get fat.
YELLIN: And then there's the price tag. This group says it's bloated and misguided policy.
DAVID WILLIAMS, CITIZENS AGAINST GOVERNMENT WASTE: That's what we're here to say to Congress. You're going the wrong way when it comes to farm bill policy.
YELLIN (on camera): Supporters say the bill is an essential safety net for America's farmers. But even some of these backers agree the farm bill needs an overhaul. And they're vowing to make changes. Jessica Yellin, CNN, Capitol Hill.
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PILGRIM: The farm bill is currently held up in the Senate by a dispute between Republicans and Democrats.
The results of tonight's poll. Ninety seven percent of you say that you are outraged that Senate Democrats behind closed doors cut $3 billion in border security funds. We do have time now for some of your thoughts and Rod in Maryland wrote to us. He writes to Lou about his column on cnn.com today.
"Thank you, sir, for the November surprise article. It is about time someone so excellently described this president and Congress. Like you, I am hoping that someone else will emerge who will lead this country regardless of party platforms, but rather on what the American people have expressed time and again as the course for this country to follow."
Carole in Arizona wrote, "Today we proudly changed our party affiliation from Democrat to Independent."
And Frank in Mississippi wrote, "I know now what we'll give our congressman for Christmas. Hearing aids. Because they're certainly not listening to the people."
If we read your e-mail, we will send you a copy of Lou's new book, "Independence Day, Awakening the American Spirit."
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. A CNN special presentation, "Desperate, Inside Pro Wrestling" starts now.
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