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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Democrats Again Fight President Bush on War in Iraq; Rising Concerns about Iran's Nuclear Threat; Eliot Spitzer Loses on License Issue; Arizona Employers Hiring Illegals Could Lose Business License
Aired November 14, 2007 - ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you and good evening from Las Vegas, Nevada.
Tonight, Governor Eliot Spitzer of New York retrieving from his proposals to give drivers' licenses to illegal aliens -- is it in time for the Democratic Party? Governor Spitzer accusing his opponents and critics of hyper-partisanship and fear mongering and being anti- immigrant. We'll have complete coverage and I'll be talking with three of three critics and political opponents.
Also, a rising number of states are passing laws to stop illegal immigration altogether, but some of those some of those states under pressure from corporate establishment elite and special interests are refusing to crack down on the employers of those illegal aliens. We'll have the story and the number of Americans in danger of losing their homes is now doubled over the past year. We'll have a special report on an escalating mortgage crisis in this country.
And tonight we'll review tomorrow's CNN debate. The Democratic presidential candidates standing right in the arena behind me here in Las Vegas. We'll have all that, all the day's news and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, November 14, 2007. Live from Las Vegas, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
The House of Representatives tonight voting on yet another effort by the Democrats to challenge President Bush's conduct of the war in Iraq. Democrats are threatening to withhold funding again for the war if the president does not promise to withdraw troops. The White House today again declared that President Bush will veto the legislation if it were to pass the House and Senate. The White House also accusing the Democrats of trying to appease what it called radical groups such as MoveOn.org.
Ed Henry has our report from the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Democrats are forging ahead, even though this very same strategy has failed them literally dozens of times. In this case, Democrats pushing a plan that would give the president another $50 billion in war funding. In exchange though, Mr. Bush would have to agree to a goal of pulling most U.S. troops out of Iraq by December of 2008. He obviously will not agree to that. The White House already saying the president would veto this bill. He does not want that string attached to the war funding. That led White House spokesman Dana Perino today to charge that this is all about Democratic political posturing, while Democrats insist it is all about not ceding any ground to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Democrats believe that these votes will somehow punish the president but it actually punishes the troops. It punishes our military planners, our procurement officers and many others who are working on this war effort.
REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This is a war that George Bush started and this is a war that he needs to end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now the bottom line is that the Democrats will pass it. The president will veto it and then both sides will be scrambling to try to work out a compromise. In a very limited amount of time before Congress has to go home for the Thanksgiving break, so in the end the president is very likely to end up getting what he wants and it will only strengthen his hand in war-making policy. Lou?
DOBBS: Why would the Democratic leadership in Congress again run the risk of being embarrassed by another defeat on the same strategy they've employed, as you pointed out, literally, dozens of times?
HENRY: One major reason. They are under intense political pressure from their liberal base to do something to try to change the direction of the president's policy in Iraq. As you noted, they failed over and over. They're under that pressure though to try again so they're going to do it, even though in the end, the president is very, very likely to get what he's wanted all along which is the money without any strings attached. Lou?
DOBBS: Identity and group politics in this country holding sway over both political parties, as usual. Thank you very much, Ed Henry from the White House.
As lawmakers in Washington debated, if you can call it that, the conduct of the war, insurgents killed five more of our troops in Iraq; two in Baghdad, three in attacks north of the Iraqi capital; 20 of our troops have been killed in Iraq so far this month; 3,864 of our troops killed since the war began; 28,489 of our troops wounded; 12,754 of them seriously.
A powerful roadside bomb killed one of the soldiers who died in Baghdad. That bomb exploded just outside the so-called green zone, the heavily fortified government district in the Iraqi capital. The U.S. military today said the bomb used in that attack was the same type of bomb as Iran has supplied the insurgents. The U.S. officials are also concerned about Iran's accelerating nuclear weapons program. President Bush has so far refused to rule out the use of force against Iran. Today, several distinguished military strategists told Congress that any U.S. attack against Iran would be, as they put it, counterproductive.
Jamie McIntyre has our report from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even with its military stretched to the limit in Iraq, the U.S. retains the ability to launch punishing air strikes against Iran, targeting both terrorists and nuclear facilities. But what would the air war accomplish? Not much, according to military strategists who testified before a House subcommittee on national security.
COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON (RET.), FMR. ADVISER TO COLIN POWELL: The more widespread strikes, while devastating, and they would be would solidify a nation of 70 plus million people, a great number of whom are under 35 years of age, a nation that is anything but solidified. And the uniting factor would be nationalism and a visceral hatred for America.
COL. SAMUEL GARDINER, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): We can destroy three to five years of construction. We know how long it took to build those, but the effect on the nuclear program, we may accelerate it. As a strategist, I would say you don't take military action when you don't know the outcome.
MCINTYRE: In fact the strategists argue going to war with Iran would just reinforce the belief it must have nuclear weapons to protect itself.
PAUL PILLAR, FMR. DEP. DIR., CIA COUNTERTERROR CTR.: Many would see the U.S. action as a blow not against proliferation of weapons but against a Muslim country with a regime that Washington doesn't happen to like. So the dominant global consequence in my judgment, especially in the broader Muslim world, would be an increase in anti- Americanism.
MCINTYRE: The experts predict the ranks of Iran's Revolutionary Guard would swell. Its support of terrorism would increase and any moderates would be undercut. Still some experts argue the military option should not be taken off the table because without it, Iran simply has no incentive to compromise.
ILAN BERMAN, AMER. FOREIGN POLICY COUNCIL: Iran is not likely to bend to sanctions if it thinks that all it has to do is weather sanctions and then there is nothing else coming down the pike. One of the world's most dangerous regimes is not -- should not be allowed to require one the world's most dangerous weapon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: In that one long voice in favor of using the military option as a threat called it deeply flawed and dangerous and said it should be weighed against the prospect of living with a nuclear Iran. Lou?
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much; Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Coming up next here, a stunning retreat and defeat by Governor Eliot Spitzer of New York. He has decided he won't try to give away drivers' licenses to illegal aliens after all. Bill Tucker will have the story for us.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it was a dramatic reversal and policy from a man who swore he would never cave to pressure. We'll have the story coming right up -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you, Bill.
Also tonight, corporate elites, special interests trying to block the exercise of the will of the people and prevent state governments from fighting illegal immigration. We'll have that report.
And troubling new evidence tonight of the huge scale of the mortgage crisis in this country and its impact on working men and women and their families -- we'll have that special report, all of that and a great deal more as we continue here live from Las Vegas. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New York Governor Eliot Spitzer's outrageous proposal to give driver's license away to illegal aliens is now dead. Governor Spitzer today announced he is dropping his proposal. The governor faced overwhelming opposition from his citizens, lawsuits, and defiance.
Coming from state officials, county officials, and of course, he created a lightning rod in national politics with his brilliant proposal. Rather than admit defeat, Spitzer today in fact shifted responsibility for the entire mess to the federal government and its failure to deal with this country's illegal immigration crisis, part of which is certainly true.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (voice-over): New York Governor Eliot Spitzer sounded his retreat in Washington, D.C. surrounded by most of his state's Democrat delegation to Congress.
GOV. ELIOT SPITZER (D), NEW YORK: After serious deliberation and consultation with people I respect on all sides of this issue, I have concluded that New York State cannot successfully address this problem on its own. I am announcing today that I am withdrawing my proposal.
TUCKER: In the face of lawsuits, threats by the State Legislature to refuse to fund the Department of Motor Vehicles, opposition from county DMV clerks and plummeting poll numbers, he conceded.
SPITZER: It does not take a stethoscope to hear the pulse of New Yorkers on this topic.
TUCKER: It was a far cry from his earlier comments.
SPITZER: I don't make security decisions about the state of New York based on poll numbers. When I decide something is important for our security, I'll do it. There was no need nor is there any need to go to the legislature.
TUCKER: For now, the governor has retreated.
KATHY MARCHIONE, NY STATE ASSOC. OF CO. CLERKS: I am very pleased that the governor has stepped back and that he rescinded his plan. It is what we asked for since the day we heard about the plan and we're thrilled that it's happened.
TUCKER: But in his retreat, Spitzer remains resolute that his plan is the right idea, just at the wrong time. His opponents, some within his own party, couldn't disagree more.
GINNY FIELDS (D), NY STATE ASSEMBLY: It is not the right thing to do then. It is not the right thing to do now. And it is not the right thing to do in the future.
TUCKER: For now, there is calm on the battlefield but the fight is not over.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And in retreating from his plan, Lou, the governor did not rescind his order, ordering the removal of visa expiration dates from drivers' licenses. This had been the practice up until September 24. When asked why he had ordered the removal of those visa expiration dates, his staff replied, "for them to be there, Lou, it is pejorative". That's their words, not mine. This battle is not dead. It is coming back.
DOBBS: As a matter of fact and being and I think probably it is fair to say chief among his media critics on this plan. This governor is absolutely apparently intent on just flaunting the will of the people, exposing the state of New York and its citizens to extraordinary risks that are completely unnecessary. And if he does not back off of that decision as well, the man is just out of -- I mean his comment today that after serious deliberation and discussion with people he respects on the issue, you just have to wonder why in the world he didn't have a serious discussion, serious deliberation before making such a rash judgment. Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
Well many New York officials and lawmakers voice strong opposition to the governor's plan. Three of those voices of reason and strong voices of opposition said so in fact on this broadcast. And we wanted to get their perspectives this evening. Joining me now State Senator Martin Golden, Republican from Brooklyn; Rensselaer County Clerk Frank Merola; and coming back from the State Assembly, the minority leader there, James Tedisco; we thank you all for taking time to join us tonight.
Let me begin with you, Senator Golden, your reaction to the governor's statements today.
MARTIN GOLDEN (R), NY STATE SENATE: Well I'm glad to see that he is coming back to his senses. And I want to thank you, Lou, and I want to thank CNN for taking a significant role in getting this governor to understand that 75 percent of people of this great state and this nation were against this strong-headed policy. So if he wanted to check with anybody, he should have checked with the electorate across this state. And that's what he's failed to do. He's failed to work with the legislature and he's failed to work with the people that put him in office in the first place.
DOBBS: Assemblyman Tedisco, is this governor, is this issue now concluded in your judgment as a result of the action he took today?
JAMES TEDISCO (R), NY STATE ASSEMBLY: Well, it is concluded for a while, but the governor said today specifically he thinks that the climate change is politically. He may roll back this misguided proposal. What he is suggesting I think is if his candidate for presidency, Hillary Clinton, and Congress stays with the Democrats and the Senate stays with the Democrats at the federal level, he may roll this misguided proposal back.
I think that's a terrible message to send from the Democratic Party. And Lou, I also have to congratulate you for your leadership. Frank Merola and our county clerks, but the people who really deserve the credit for this win here today is the 18.5 million people in New York State who sent a wonderful message to the governor and to the State Legislature here and across this nation. They are the strongest, the most powerful voices in this democracy. They stood up.
They sent the letters. They sent the e-mails. They traveled to the Capitol to picket this governor and challenge him on this and they deserve the credit for this win, the rollback, this misguided policy to give illegal aliens drivers' licenses.
DOBBS: Well I know that Senator Bruno, Senator Golden and you, Assemblyman, and Frank Merola, county clerk in Rensselaer, and nearly every state official are delighted and gratified by this. Frank Merola, you had the guts to take on the governor personally, as well as in your capacity as county clerk, your feelings tonight? Is there a sense of victory? Do you feel gratified?
(CROSSTALK)
FRANK MEROLA, RENSSELAER COUNTY CLERK: He still scares me. I really don't think it is public opinion. I think he was afraid to get into the court of law. I think in a court of law, we were going to win that case hands down. I mean he was giving out drivers' licenses. He has already done it, gave up 23,000 drivers' licenses to people that had illegal status may no longer be valid.
And he's got them out there on an eight-year driver's license, yet they can't prove legal status. So I think he did something to break the law right there. And I think the law was of the part that he was afraid to answer to.
TEDISCO: Lou, Frank and I...
(CROSSTALK)
TEDISCO: ... are a little out of breath. Frank and I are a little out of breath because we did about four or five victory laps around the Capitol building tonight. And every time we went by the second floor, we waved to the governor in the second floor window. And we think he gave us the victory sign.
Well it might not have been the victory sign, but we gave him a wave. And I think he understands from the people now that he has to listen to what they have to say. Not use the skills of an attorney general, subpoenas and be a prosecutor, but be a governor that listens to the people, the public, to the legislature and works with them to develop a positive agenda for our state and for the people of New York State, so he's got that challenge before him right now.
DOBBS: Well we thank you all for taking time to be here. State Senator Martin Golden and Rensselaer County clerk Frank Merola and Assembly James Tedisco, thank you very much and the victory lap you take I suspect will be transitory, but enjoy it while you can.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you believe Governor Spitzer was responding in making his decision to Democratic Party pressure ahead of the Democratic presidential debates or was he responding to the will of the people of New York or perhaps even both?
Democratic Party pressure, the will of the people of New York or both, cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here in the broadcast later.
Time now let's take a look at some of your thoughts. John in Florida wrote in to say, "Lou, congratulations to you and the folks who stopped the prince from New York. You know, Mrs. Dobbs would make a great first lady." Oh man, that's just what she wanted to hear.
And Jeanne in California, "I guess Governor Spitzer had to learn the hard way. The will of the people is far more powerful than his arrogance." It certainly is. And we need to make certain that is the case in every state.
Janis saying that, "You've proven that we the people do have a voice in stopping the political and economic destruction of America."
And our next e-mail. "Thanks to you and your show Spitzer has finally answered to his bosses, New Yorkers and the American people."
Bob in Pennsylvania said, "Lou, you did it. The prince backed down. I'm starting to understand how a populous movement starts. Thanks." Thank you and let's hope this populous movement, this independent populous movement has really, really begun in earnest.
We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit".
Coming up next, states dealing with employers of illegal aliens, they are the principle part of this problem, folks, some states however are backing down and giving business, big business a free pass.
New poll show a tightening in the Democratic race. Will Senator Clinton continue to suffer the Spitzer effect? We'll hear from the best political team on television here next. Stay with us and we'll be back with more from Las Vegas, Nevada. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: States across the country are passing laws that penalize employers of illegal aliens. They are the principle cause in this crisis. A law here in Nevada just went into effect last month. Some of the states are trying to do the job the federal government has refused to do, but as Casey Wian now reports other states are giving businesses hiring illegal aliens a free pass.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is a tale of two states. Arizona now has the nation's toughest law targeting employers of illegal aliens. Neighboring Nevada has a new law, too, that is unlikely to penalize a single business. Starting January 1, Arizona employers found to be hiring illegal aliens could lose their business license. Business lobby groups are suing, saying it will devastate Arizona's agriculture, service, and construction industries.
DAVID SELDEN, ATTORNEY FOR ARIZ. BUSINESSES: The Arizona law will begin economic chaos in this country. The immigration system is certainly broken but it is a federal system. And the Constitution says we're supposed to have a federal uniform system naturalization.
WIAN: Instead, there is now a hodgepodge of 19 different state laws targeting employers of illegal aliens.
ANN MORSE, NATL CONF. OF STATE LEGISLATURES: I think it is fair to say there is a lot of frustration at the state level. States provide for their education, health care, law enforcement and there are a lot of potential costs incurred when the federal government doesn't do its job.
WIAN: Nevada's new employer sanctions law took effect October 1, but one of the law's co-sponsors says it is a watered down ineffective version of a bill she originally introduced.
ELLEN KOIVISTO (D), NEVADA STATE ASSEMBLY: It really went after the employers more. They had to pay a fine as well as lose their business license. WIAN: Koivisto says the bill was changed after complaints from Hispanic lawmakers. Now it calls for an unspecified fine, only against employers of illegal aliens that quote, "willfully, flagrantly or otherwise egregiously violate federal law." That is nearly impossible to prove.
WIAN: Do you think anyone is actually going to get fined?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wouldn't hold my breath.
WIAN: Although illegal aliens make up about seven percent of southern Nevada's population according to a UNLV study, there is no rush to solve the problem.
SYLVIA LAZOS, UNLV LAW PROFESSOR: I think we have a thriving economy that is based on people not asking too many questions. We know also that many of unauthorized workers are in construction. And construction is definitely influential in the state and is one of the engines for economic growth here in southern Nevada.
WIAN: It is also a magnet for a growing illegal work force.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Assemblywoman Koivisto says she is very frustrated by Nevada's inability to crack down on employers of illegal aliens. Even more frustrating, Lou, is the fact that the Nevada State Legislature only meets for four months every other year. So businesses who hire illegal aliens in this state are going to get a free pass from state sanctions until at least mid 2009.
DOBBS: I think we can say straightforwardly in the state of Nevada, and I say this knowing we're going to be here for some number of other days, this state has given illegal immigration a free pass. It has given law and order a bad name. The city of Las Vegas, the state of Nevada, as you have just documented and reported is simply encouraging illegal immigration, not simply not stopping it. They're encouraging it.
WIAN: One of the excuses they make is that their state budget is in a crisis. They have got a budget deficit and some of the mandates from the federal government, such as the real ID Act (ph), are already going to cost them like $80 million. They're trying to enforce immigration laws is just going to cost them too much...
DOBBS: Well a memo from Lou Dobbs to the Nevada governor and State Legislature. You're not kidding anybody. People in the United States are a lot smarter than that. This is business as usual and it is business on the backs of the taxpayers. Not just in this state but across the country.
WIAN: Absolutely.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Casey Wian.
The Virginia State Crime Commission has decided to take steps to deal with illegal immigration and the crisis there. That commission improved recommendations, including denying bail to illegal aliens who face minor charges and requiring state troopers to help federal authorities actually detain and deport illegal aliens. Some members of the bipartisan commission are confident that the Virginia State Legislature will approve at least some of those measures.
The one Republican member of the commission says the Democratic majority in the state Senate and Democratic Governor Tim Kaine will reject that proposal on state police. A spokesman for the governor said the governor believes illegal immigration is a matter for the federal government. Governor Kaine meet Governor Spitzer.
The House of Representatives today passed a ban on funding a program that allows Mexican trucks to travel freely in this country. This funding ban was part of the transportation-spending bill. The Senate is expected to pass a similar ban this week but the White House is likely to veto the legislation because this White House is working for corporate America.
Mexican trucks were granted unlimited access to our highways under the terms of the NAFTA agreement by the Department of Transportation unilateral. The plan held up until this past September when the Bush administration decided to give the trucks a free pass to roll on our highways, of course, disregarding altogether serious concerns that the trucks could jeopardize American lives and provide a new means for smugglers to bring their goods and drugs and illegal aliens across the border.
Coming up next, rising outrage in Congress over states that give illegal aliens drivers' licenses, also Senator Hillary Clinton, well I hate to be the one to say this to you but we have another flip-flop, a waffle and a wobble and we're not even sure how many candidates are involved in this one, but certainly Senator Clinton among them. New poll numbers on the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination, we'll have those and I'll be joined by Congressman Pete King of New York, the ranking member on the House Homeland Security Committee.
Stay with us as we continue live from Las Vegas, home of law, order, all the great things about America. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. We're in Las Vegas tonight. Governor Spitzer trying to put the driver's license fiasco behind him. It is his mess. But paying the price presidential candidate Senator Clinton and she hasn't found it easygoing at all. The senator's campaign has in fact stalled since she waffled on the issue of driver's licenses for illegal aliens. At the last democratic debate just two weeks ago, Senator Clinton said the Spitzer plan, in her words, made a lot of sense. But a moment later said she wasn't endorsing the plan and said then this. "I did not say that it should be done but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it." Then a week later, she said she broadly supported the governor's efforts. Today she said this. Now follow the bouncing ball, please. This is my fault. I simply can't quite keep up with this. That she will not, as president, support driver's licenses for undocumented people, as she put it.
One of the senator's chief rivals for the presidency is of course, Senator Barack Obama. His campaign tonight blasted her refusal to give a straight answer. The Obama campaign saying, "When it takes two weeks of six different positions to answer one question on immigration, it is easier to understand why the Clinton campaign would rather plant their questions than answer them." I have to say that that first of all is the best line out of the campaign so far. It is also the most straightforward thing I've heard yet from the Obama campaign.
Joining me now with the latest on the presidential race, which they are covering from a to z and who will be covering, of course, tomorrow's presidential debate with these candidates, three members of the very best political team on television. In fact, they are the point people on that team. Our chief national correspondent, John King. John, good to have you here. Senior political analyst Bill Schneider, good to see you, Bill, and our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley. I think I'm probably the most senior here but I don't want to brag about that.
Let's start with the Obama, Clinton, whatever it is. Is this a mortal blow, do you think, to the Clinton campaign?
JOHN KING, CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No. But it knocks her back on her heels for the first time in this race. Now her rivals, as Senator Obama does in that statement, are going to try to make the point that she took an evolution at a minimum, to the position he is at now. The problem for Senator Obama would be ...
DOBBS: And he covers politics but he is not a politician. He's a word smith.
KING: Try to stay in the middle of the road. But the problem is she has evolved on the policy and her rivals are trying to take advantage of that. At the same time, Senator Obama supports what was Governor Spitzer's position, which is that illegal immigrants should be able to get a driver's license which is out of step with public opinion. So as he thumps Senator Clinton, he's also going to have to explain his own position.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They'll democrats.
DOBBS: It is out in the open. It's exposed. Chris Dodd does not support driver's licenses. He does support comprehensive immigration reform which is amnesty in its two iterations that was defeated the last time on June 28th this year in the senate.
Let's go to the Obama campaign. I mean left behind that as John points out is you know the fact that he is behind, not only is he behind coverage of immigration reform or amnesty, he is also a, one of the sponsors of the dream act. I mean how much is this going to cost all of the democratic candidates because poll after poll shows the American people want this issue in front of them. They want these candidates and the Republican and Democratic Parties talking about it and taking a clear position. We've had some real problems with that clear position so far.
CROWLEY: Absolutely and I think you know in the short term, talking about the primary season. What Hillary Clinton's opponents are going to seize on is their story line right now, which is, she takes every position possible. You can't trust her. That's where they go with this because even if it may be where she is now ending up on this immigration problem, the driver's licenses. They believe that they got her on the whole honesty, you know, taking both sides of the issues. When you get into the general election, I think you're right. I think they're in trouble here. We keep seeing, not just poll after poll but the numbers increasing.
DOBBS: The newest "New York Times" CBS News poll showing, if we can put that up. Showing, it is a dead heat in Iowa, right now, according to this poll. Clinton, Edwards and Obama locked up within a few percentage points.
BILL SCHNEIDER, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Iowa is a separate political universe. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the country.
DOBBS: God bless them is all I can say.
SCHNEIDER: That's where the campaign is neck and neck and neck with the three candidates. Obama, Clinton and Edwards. Nobody knows who will win. Clinton could stumble there.
DOBBS: If it is a dead heat, doesn't that mean she's already stumbled, Candy?
CROWLEY: Well, the expectations game. As we will say when it happens, a win is a win is a win. You're absolutely right. If they can get within spitting distance Iowa, she begins to lose a little of that patina inevitability. They need to beat her in Iowa. It is the first place to beat her and the best place to beat her because of the polls.
DOBBS: She is looking pretty strong elsewhere. The democratic caucus choice for nominee, Clinton and Obama and Edwards, a huge difference there nationally. Is that important at all?
KING: Nationally it is important that she is way ahead, Lou. But we're getting closer to what really matters which is state by state. And Candy is dead right. If somebody can slay goliath and knock her down and beat her that is correct person will get a lot of attention. She does have back-ups. This state is one of them. She has the support of Harry Reid's son. He's working Nevada very hard for her. She is ahead in New Hampshire right now. The Clintons have a track record in New Hampshire.
DOBBS: Is Harry Reid popular in this state?
KING: Among democrats he sure is.
DOBBS: I'm shocked that he is popular among democrats anywhere right now, given what is transpiring with illegal immigration, with the funding for the war and the clumsy way to deal with the war. We're now being treated to another iteration of that confrontation with the White House. Nothing but, it seems like pantomime, Bill.
SCHNEIDER: It does. That's where the democrats continue to make a stand and they can't get their way and Bush vetoes it. The whole thing goes on and on. It just makes the voters angrier and angrier. Because they say we voted for democratic Congress to do something and they can't do it.
DOBBS: The dance between national media and these presidential candidates of both parties over? Is it time to say clearly, when they're avoiding your questions, when they're being themselves available to the press and focusing on that as much as the horse race. Is it time?
KING: We hope we do that all the time. They are at the point now. This is a democracy for a reason. You know people get to vote. We're getting closer to those votes in Iowa. And it does change things. The pressure increased on the candidates because they've had so many debates now. You can't ask tougher questions. This whole immigration is a result of the evolution of debates. You can say that doesn't match up with what you said last time. And so we're at that point.
DOBBS: A result of relentless focus. Bill Schneider, your thoughts?
SCHNEIDER: I go to Iowa and New Hampshire. Do you know what the voters say to me all the time? They say, when do we get to vote? We're tired of all this campaigning. We just want to vote.
DOBBS: They don't even know where the candidates stand on the issues right now. We haven't had a real debate on Iraq policy. We haven't had a real debate on the war on terror amongst these candidates and I'm talking about both political parties, Candy. When does it come?
CROWLEY: We think, we would like to think where -- in some ways, it is very hard to get past the two-minute answer to these questions. That's what we're seeing them in. In news conferences, they can so easily go off on another subject and call on this person important person. You heard Hillary Clinton say this isn't a 30-second answer. Even when you try to give them more time than 30 seconds, they have ways to avoid these things so it is difficult to pin them down particularly as a group.
DOBBS: And that is you know the challenge. And by the way, no one respects more the job you guys do. No one understands I thin k a lot better than I do how difficult that job is for you and our colleagues across the national media. At the same time, I've had a belly full of these candidates conducting themselves in the way in which they do, avoiding issues. It is great no matter what the fallout is to see, at least, for the American people to see, where Senator Clinton really stands on one issue. What is happening with these candidates on the democratic side? Now we have the republicans' thing to sort out. We'll pick that up in the days ahead. Thank you very much, John. Thank you very much, Bill. Candy, thank you. Up next, the republican congressman, a ranking member of the house. The homeland security committee wants to keep states from Spitzering their driver's licenses. He'll join us from Capitol Hill tonight. And homeowners being pushed into mortgages that put them at risk. They're now losing their homes. We'll have a special report to tell you why the government wants to bail out a bank instead of families being foreclosed upon. And we'll be talking about the foster family fighting the state of Oregon to adopt a child, an American child in the United States instead of allow that child to be sent by the state to Mexico. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
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DOBBS: New York's governor Eliot Spitzer surrendered on his latest proposal to give away driver's licenses for illegal aliens but there are still eight other states offer in varying forms some privileges to illegal aliens on the roads. Two republican lawmakers are introducing federal legislation to bar states from issuing those licenses. Republican congressmen, the ranking member of the house homeland security committee joins me now. Pete King is sponsor of the legislation, joining us tonight from Capitol Hill. Congressman, first, good to see you and secondly, what in the world do you think this change of heart in the part of Eliot Spitzer means. What is your take?
REP. PETE KING (R), NEW YORK: First of all, congratulations to you, Lou, for all you had to do with this. It was a great day today for America and a great day for New York. Basically, Eliot Spitzer, he just saw finally that the overwhelming majority of New Yorkers were against this and New York is supposed to be a great liberal state. Yet over 75 percent of New Yorkers were against it. The real heat came from his fellow democrats. People like Senator Clinton, the democratic members of Congress, the democratic state legislators. They were getting killed by this. It brings down the entire party. There are enough troubles in New York. Don't impose this. Get out of it. And he finally did it.
DOBBS: Yeah. I always like to be straightforward and fully disclose. I am an independent pop list. I have to say, this, as much as I appreciate the fact the democratic candidates for president are having to stake up their ground on the issue of illegal immigration, border security, national sovereignty, I'm also wondering, what's happened to the Republican Party. They're all over the map with the president that is trying twice to lead this nation into a morass that could have been destructive of national sovereignty and everything that most of us respect about this country's loss.
KING: Yeah. Over the last year, two years, republicans in congress, certainly in the house have stood pretty strong as far as ...
DOBBS: That is an absolutely fair statement. And an appropriate one. I wonder about how the Republican Party is nationally. Where the president has enthusiastically embraced amnesty, open borders, security and prosperity, partnership which is, you know, could lead to a North American union, if Bush and the leaders of Mexico and Canada would have their way.
KING: I don't want to sound too much like Lou Dobbs. The fact is that the problem is have the Republican Party has is the big business interests. Democrats have their party from the liberal left, the Moveon.org crowd was pushing amnesty. The republicans have their problem from big business which wants the cheap labor and they tried to impose their will on the Republican Party. The House of Representatives, we have to run every two years, is much more responsive to real people. That's why you're seeing the house republicans standing up to big business, standing up to the left and doing the right thing. If people like Eliot Spitzer and the leaders of the Republican Party spent more time in American Legion Halls, Knights of Columbus halls, diners, bagel shops, doughnut shops, rather than living in their own echo chambers. They have a much better feel for what the American people want.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Congressman, good to have you. We're out of time. Do you think you'll see this legislation pass?
KING: We got 153 original co-sponsors. That's almost a record for legislation this. We'll push it as hard as we can.
DOBBS: Congressman Pete King who when he pushes something, he usually has a very successful result. Good to have you with us Congressman.
KING: Thank you Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "OUT IN THE OPEN" with Rick Sanchez. Rick.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I know what you mean Lou when you talk about people in Washington being a little bit out there. John McCain, apparently after letting one of his supporters say something really nasty and demeaning about Hillary Clinton, no matter what you think about Hillary Clinton. Today instead of just saying, oh, man, I shouldn't have allowed that to happen. Maybe it was a mistake. He is going after me and after CNN and he is doing it in a very strong way. It is just amazing. What they do in Washington, the games that they play.
DOBBS: You mean you've got somebody attacking you, Rick Sanchez?
SANCHEZ: All the time!
DOBBS: Oh, my gosh.
SANCHEZ: It is like, you're my best friend and I want to you watch my back.
DOBBS: Well, partner, I have to tell you, just so McCain isn't attacking me these days, I have so many people on my back. We got a full bus right now.
SANCHEZ: By the way, there is another guy. I've had a lot of conversations with. I kind of like the guy, frankly. Tancredo's getting hammered by the main stream media. He is on our show today. What about what he's right about? There is a lot of stuff he's right about. I'm going to tell him that. We're going to talk about that. And O.J. Simpson? There is a ruling. Bad news for O.J. Simpson. The judge says you're going to trial, buddy. There you go.
DOBBS: You were doing so good until you said O.J. Simpson. For crying out loud, Rick! We're going to look forward to it anyway. Have fun with Tom Tancredo. I think everybody will live happily ever after.
The number of Americans at risk of losing their homes is now literally skyrocketing, doubling over the past year. 30 percent over the last 90 days. Still ahead, a foster family's legal battle to keep his child from being sent by the state government to the country of Mexico against their wishes and against all common sense. We'll have those stories and more live tonight from Las Vegas. We'll be right back.
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DOBBS: Foreclosures are increasing all across the country, leaving millions of people in danger of losing their home. A new realty poll shows they have states; Florida and Ohio all now dominate new foreclosure filings. The hardest hit cities are in California, Detroit, Michigan, and Riverside, San Bernardino, in California. Here in Nevada, this state is at number five in the nation in foreclosure rates. One of every 48 households facing a threat of losing their home. As Kitty Pilgrim now reports, the flood of foreclosures is threatening homeowners who are even paying their mortgages now on time.
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KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These are the signs of the times. According to a new report by the Senate for Responsible Lending, the epidemic of foreclosures will be a severe drain property values, even for those who have been faithfully paying their mortgage.
JOSH NASSAR, CENTER FOR RESPONSIBLE LENDING: Nearly 45 million families will also lose wealth because of the declining property values. I wish I could tell you we have seen the worst but the truth is we have not. The amount of people who are going to face payment shock and who could see their loan obligations increase is absolutely staggering.
PILGRIM: Some brokers and lenders, after pocketing large fees, pushed many families into sub prime mortgages. Even those who would have qualified for a conventional loan. Many borrowers, seduced by the interest rates, failed to calculate how much higher their amounts would rise. But now, in a declining market, refinancing is difficult. The Center for American Progress calculated that 38 percent of homeowners who took out adjustable rate mortgages last year now over more than their home is worth because of declining values.
JOHN TAYLOR, NATIONAL COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT COALITION: Basically, the infectious greed and malfeasance of these brokers and lenders probably, unless there is immediate action, will push us into a rather deep and difficult recession. We haven't seen anything like this since the depression. Our economy is going to be dragged down.
PILGRIM: The Senate for Responsible Lending estimates those predatory lending practices have stripped $9 billion in equity from working class Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The chance of foreclosures doubled on sub prime loans between 2000 and 2005. Those sub prime loans triggered the high interest loans in two to three years. Now many middle class families are caught in the trap. Lou.
DOBBS: This is one portion of it. As we know, those resets are coming into effect in the next 18 months as well. And literally, just about the two million people will be caught in that trap. Kitty, thank you very much. A disturbing story and as disturbing in point of fact is the lack of leadership on the issue of both Congress and the white house and the response. Kitty, thank you; Kitty Pilgrim.
We have an update to a report we brought you last night. There is a legal victory for the foster family fighting the state of Oregon to keep his child in the United States. A judge ruled that Gabriel can say with, that he can stay with his foster parents for now, overturning Oregon's department of human services. That department, incredibly still wants to turn, to extend toddler to live with his grandmother in Mexico. Gabriel, who is 2 years old, has lived with Steve and Angela Brandt for most of his life. Gabriel's mother is an American citizen, as is he. Gabriel's mother is a convicted criminal. His father an illegal alien, also a convicted criminal as well. We will keep you posted on this story. But tonight, good news and, to the Brandt family in Oregon, we want to say we're thinking of you and pulling for you and pray for the ride out here. And Lars Larson, you did a great job. Still ahead, we'll go beyond the strip here in Las Vegas to reveal the other Vegas. We'll be right back with that. You don't want to miss that. Neither do I. We'll be right back.
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DOBBS: We reported earlier, a mortgage crisis. Hammering Las Vegas in particular among all of the states in the union that are being hammered, that hasn't stopped the tourists and the gamblers from trying their luck in this desert city. Every month, thousands still move here to begin a new life. Our Bill Schneider reports on the other Las Vegas.
SCHNEIDER: Strike it rich. That's the American dream. Isn't that what the Vegas strip is all about? Well, yes. There is another Las Vegas beyond the strip.
SHELLY BERKELEY: This is the town of dreams and hopes and wishes.
SCHNEIDER: People who live here have the same dream as the tourists, to strike it rich. They hope to cash in on opportunities offered by a booming service economy.
BERKELEY: The strip right now is the epicenter of Las Vegas. It is the economic engine that drives this amazing train.
SCHNEIDER: Congresswoman Shelly Berkeley is that rare phenomenon. She actually grew up here. Her father, a waiter in New York, was promised a new job in California. 44 years ago, he drove the family west and made a fateful stop.
BERKELEY: We decided to stop in Vegas for the night and we never left.
SCHNEIDER: Did they strike it rich? Well, she became a hotel executive and a member of Congress and she married a doctor, a republican doctor.
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