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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Presidential Candidates Campaign in Iowa
Aired December 26, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf.
Tonight, just eight days away, the critical contest for Iowa voters, this race is close. Most candidates today are in Iowa fighting hard for the votes; we'll tell you who has the edge; all of that, today's news, and much more straight ahead, tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, December 26. Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody. The presidential candidates are battling down to the wire in Iowa, for the Democrats the race is very close. Barack Obama is on the offensive. He's trying to shatter Hillary Clinton's slim lead. For the GOP candidates, Mike Huckabee is the front-runner and today, he was on the hunt for game as well as voters.
And it was a golden photo op while his closest rival Mitt Romney wasn't even in the state today. But with half of Iowa's voters still undecided, the race could tip in an unexpected direction. Now we begin tonight with Jessica Yellin in Webster City, Iowa. Jessica?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kitty it is crunch time here in Iowa, after months of campaigning, the Democrats have a just a week left to make their case and they are driving their message home that they are the strongest candidate to deliver change. Every candidate here in the Democratic field says that is what they are here to do, to be the president who will change us from the rule of George Bush, which they say has been disastrous for this country.
For Senator Clinton, for Barack Obama and John Edwards, those three in a statistical dead heat, they are approaching this message in different ways. Senator Clinton says she has the experience to deliver that change. That she has tested, she's been in the White House. That she has served in the Senate longer than Barack Obama. She knows how to get things done. We've heard this message from her, but clearly in the last week, they've decided this is the runaway seller for her and this is the theme they are hitting hard both on the campaign trail and in a new advertisement, but for Barack Obama, it's a different message.
He stops at Senator Clinton's notion that experience is what you need to change America. He says he is the outsider's perspective to really make a difference and has even been so much derisive, sort of sarcastic about Senator Clinton's position, saying that basically what she is selling you is more of the same, more status quo. And then you have John Edwards. For a long time we've all discounted John Edwards, but it is a statistical dead heat with John Edwards right up there.
And his message is that unlike the other two he will fight the special interests to get things done and that he's the one is willing to battle it aggressively and take on the powers that be in Washington. They're all making cases about their leadership styles and that is what the voters of Iowa have to decide when they go to the polls about a week from tonight -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Jessica, a quick point about John Edwards, this is hard won gains. He's really done this in road miles, hasn't he? He's been a very big presence in Iowa.
YELLIN: Yes, you're absolutely right. Ever since 2004, he's been in the state, come back consistently and built an organization. And that could really deliver him a victory on caucus night, because he's the guy who has spent, invested the time in getting the consistent caucus goers to support him. Let's say there's a big snowstorm, the folks who are most likely to stay home are those first- time caucus goers, those are the Obama and the Clinton supporters.
Edwards has the long-timers, the folks who are familiar with caucusing and his long-time organization here could really put him over the edge. He has a chance to walk away with Iowa -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much, Jessica Yellin. Thank you, Jessica.
Republican contender Mike Huckabee perhaps pushing an image more than an issue today in Iowa, now this candidate was out on the trail literally while his closest rival Mitt Romney was vying for votes in New Hampshire. Dana Bash has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) what kind of gun is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a Minnelli (ph), 12-gauge, Black Eagle.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mike Huckabee wants Iowans to know and see that he's a hunter who knows his stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know it would help if I had some shells. Who's got those?
BASH: A not so subtle contrast to Mitt Romney, his chief rival here who declared himself a life-long hunter only to have his campaign admit he's only hunted twice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe it will show that you know I certainly understand the culture of being outdoors. It's not something I had to go and you know get a primer in.
BASH: The former Arkansas governor said he would normally be duck hunting back home after Christmas, claims he goes some 30 times a season. But in Iowa, it's pheasant.
(GUN SHOTS)
BASH: And after a couple of misses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Red is fire. So it's away from me.
BASH: Some problems with his safety lock.
(GUN SHOTS)
BASH: He bagged a pheasant, three for his whole party.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These three birds all said they would not vote for me on caucus night, you see what happened to them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) is that positive campaigning?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very positive. It's very positive. You vote for me, you live. If you don't, hmm, there you go.
BASH: Beyond the folksy, it not slightly morbid humor, a closing argument for Iowa voters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That what I bring to the race is the most experience of actually running a government. I think I also bring a level of authenticity and credibility to the campaign.
BASH: But even here, evidence Huckabee still has work to do. Fellow hunter Clint Robinson thinks he's going for Huckabee but...
CLINT ROBINSON, IOWA VOTER: Immigration is certainly an issue. It's -- his stance is not necessarily in line with what I think needs to happen either.
BASH: Lucky for Huckabee he got some quality hunting time to lobby Robinson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lunch will be at 11:30.
BASH: And maybe a meal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, Kitty, there was no way Mike Huckabee was going to take the press hunting and not make a joke about Dick Cheney, of course notorious for accidentally shooting one of his fellow hunters. He was asked whether or not he had invited the vice president, without missing a beat, Kitty, Huckabee responded, I really want to survive, you know, all the way through the deal here -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Yeah and it sounds like a great opportunity for some down home humor. Thanks very much, Dana Bash.
Mitt Romney is taking it on the chin today in New Hampshire; a second newspaper there has blasted the candidate questioning his conservative credentials. Now the candidate is in New Hampshire to try to keep the re-energize campaign of John McCain from cutting into his lead. Mary Snow has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As skiers outside tried to keep firm footing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, guys. How are you?
SNOW: Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney tried to do the same. His lead has been slipping in New Hampshire polls and for the second time in four days, he's been the subject of stinging editorials in the state; the latest one is from the "New Hampshire Union Leader," criticizing him for changing positions on issues like abortion, saying the more he speaks, the less believable he becomes. Romney answered his critics.
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But if you look at my record as governor, you can see that my positions are the positions that I carried out as governor. There's no change.
SNOW: Some political observers say the fact that Romney was in New Hampshire when most of his rivals are in Iowa is telling in itself.
DANTE SCALA, UNIV. OF NEW HAMPSHIRE: It means that Mitt Romney is hearing footsteps here and they're getting louder everyday.
SNOW: Those footsteps are from John McCain who has been gaining momentum in the state where Romney is still in the lead, but not by much and Romney is trying to set himself apart from McCain on the issue of illegal immigration, targeting a compromised reform bill McCain sponsored and accusing the Arizona senator of supporting amnesty.
ROMNEY: I'm happy to talk about times when I've been wrong. But I don't recall Senator McCain saying he was wrong to say that all illegal aliens should be able to say stay here permanently.
SNOW: The McCain camp fired back with this statement. "I know something about tailspins, and it's pretty clear Mitt Romney is in one. It's disappointing that he would launch desperate, flailing and false attacks."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now McCain has supported earned citizenship, which critics say amounts to amnesty, it's come up on the campaign trail. McCain has responded by saying he gets the message about securing the borders first, but Mitt Romney is hoping that doubts about McCain's position will keep him in first place here -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: And again, Mary, this issue is very critical with American voters who see this time and time again. SNOW: Absolutely, and especially in a state when you talk to political observers here. They're saying illegal immigration is one of the top issues for the Republicans here and it could make a big difference.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Mary Snow.
Well, the front-runners in Iowa obviously have the advantage of being the likely winners, but they also have the most to lose. And with about half of the voters in Iowa still undecided, really anything can happen. Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): In the Democratic race, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have been getting most of the attention. But there's a wild card in the Democratic race, John Edwards. Polls in Iowa show a tight three-way race between Clinton, Obama and Edwards. Edwards is betting heavily on Iowa.
DENNIS GOLDFORD, DRAKE UNIVERSITY: John Edwards we have to remember never really left after the '04 caucus cycle. He has a good strong organization here in Iowa.
SCHNEIDER: After some initial missteps -- that $400 haircut -- Edwards has adopted a strong populist message.
JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have fought for jobs in the middle class and health care. I fought for the kind of working people in the middle class that I grew up with.
SCHNEIDER: If Edwards wins Iowa, he could become the Clinton alternative instead of Obama. In the Republican race, the focus has been the hot race in Iowa between Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee. John McCain was written off last summer when his campaign nearly ran out of money but he may be coming back to life in New Hampshire where he won the endorsement of an influential conservative newspaper.
McCain is now running a strong second in New Hampshire. In 2000, when McCain beat George W. Bush in the granite state, he was the maverick. Now he's the candidate of experience.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Really has a lot to do with experience and knowledge and background that I have on national security issues throughout my entire life.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans have mixed feelings about McCain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His two main issues cut in opposite directions. Republicans don't like his stance on immigration; they do like his support for the war in Iraq and particularly for the surge.
SCHNEIDER: Those are the same feels Republicans have about President Bush.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: If McCain wins New Hampshire, the Republican race will look totally different. So will the Democratic race, if Edwards wins Iowa. That's why they're the wild cards -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Bill, you bring up this issue of wild cards and they're sort of winning in the popularity side of things but it's about funding, too. How do they stand in funding?
SCHNEIDER: Well, McCain has had to struggle in funding. He almost ran out of money last summer, but my impression is that he claims that he has enough to keep going, particularly if he has an early victory and Edwards has lagged behind both Clinton and Obama in fund-raising but he gets a lot of small contributions over the Internet.
If he were to win Iowa, I think the money would start rolling in and he, too, could keep going, but the guy who really is rolling in money and is a big wild card as well is Ron Paul on the Republican side. He could make a big difference particularly in New Hampshire when Independents can vote in the Republican primary.
He's collected a lot of money. He's been running a lot of ads. He can take a lot of anti-war votes, particularly among Republicans, because there's no other anti-war candidate in their primary.
PILGRIM: Interesting stuff, thanks very much, Bill Schneider.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you believe now is the time for an Independent candidate who will represent the needs of the American people and not pander to special interests?
Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
And coming up, we'll have more on the red-hot presidential campaign. Our panel of distinguished political analysts will join me here.
Also another community joins the fight against illegal immigration. Casey Wian has that report.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, one local police agency in Arizona is now closely cooperating with federal immigration authorities but it took the killing of a police officer to make it happen. We'll explain, coming up, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Casey.
Also President Bush prepares for the final year of his presidency. Now what will be the Bush legacy? We'll have a special report on that.
And a decrease in violence against American troops in Iraq could lead to a reduction in forces in '08; we'll have that story. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The Pentagon is forecasting progress in 2008 in Iraq with less violence and better security and plans for a reduction in American troops. Now more Sunni fighters and the Iraqi army and also a backlash against insurgents is helping to subdue violence and reduce U.S. casualties. Barbara Starr reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Helena, Montana, people paid respects to Private Darrin Smith (ph) who died in Iraq. Another family suffering a deeply personal tragedy; still there are hopes now for a better new year.
December may be the lowest month on record for U.S. troops dying in Iraq. As of Christmas, 18 troops lost their lives, a dramatic drop from the high of 126 who died in May when U.S. troops surged into Iraq. The military says the strategy of sending more troops has worked.
MAJ. GEN. KEVIN J. BERGNER, U.S. ARMY: Surge has been very successful in its purpose which was to reduce the levels of violence, the casualties and to set better conditions for the important political steps that the government of Iraq very much needs to take.
STARR: The Bush administration desperately wants that political progress so it can pull 30,000 more troops out of Iraq next year, leaving about 100,000 on the ground.
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: My hope has been that the circumstances on the ground will continue to improve in a way that would, when General Petraeus and the chiefs and Central Command do their analysis in March will allow a continuation of the draw-down.
STARR: The other goal, shorten the 15-month tour of duty.
LT. GEN. WILLIAM B. CALDWELL, U.S. ARMY: There's just something after the 12-month period where that extra three months is just a tremendous drain on families an on the troopers that are deployed over there.
STARR: The Pentagon will spend much of the New Year working on what lies ahead, in part by reviewing what went wrong in the past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one thing that we have looked at real hard is the post Vietnam ear. We walked out of there and walked away from everything we had learned.
STARR: The military says it's learned that killing the enemy and reaching out to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis must go hand in hand for long-term success, a lesson many soldiers and their families wish had not ever been forgotten in Iraq.
(on camera): Everyone agrees there's been a lot of progress in Iraq in the last six months, but no commander is willing to bet how many years it may be before all the troops can come home.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: U.S. military officials say groups called awakening councils are providing a major force for the reduction of violence in Iraq. Now Iraqis who once fought America are now turning their guns on insurgents and al Qaeda instead. Harris Whitbeck reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The U.S.-led coalition in Iraq claimed what is being described as an important victory on Wednesday. It said an insurgent killed during an operation last month was a man by the name of Abu Abdullah (ph), a high ranking leader of al Qaeda in Iraq who controlled insurgent operations in a region west of Baghdad and east of the city of Falluja.
The U.S. military also said that four insurgents were killed and another one was detained during military operations near Baghdad. The news comes on the heels of one of the worst terrorist attacks on civilians in recent weeks. A suicide car bomb killed at least 25 and wounded 80 more in a residential complex belonging to the Iraqi government in the town of Baiji. A U.S. military spokesman condemned the attack on Wednesday.
MAJ. GEN. KEVIN J. BERGNER, U.S. MILITARY IRAQ SPOKESMAN: The multinational force joins the citizens of Iraq in condemning yesterday's attack in Baiji, where it appears members of the oil protective force were targeted. This attack is further evidence of the nature of al Qaeda, their use of indiscriminate violence, and their corrupt ideology that targets those who are protecting Iraq. We will work closely with Iraqi authorities to help them enforce the rule of law and bring the perpetrators to justice.
WHITBECK: Meanwhile, Turkish warplanes again pounded Kurdish rebel positions in northern Iraq on Wednesday. Turkish officials said there were no civilians hurt in the attacks, which they said were in abandoned villages used by PKK rebels as hideouts. On Tuesday Turkey claimed more than 200 Kurdish rebels have been killed in a campaign that involved aerial bombings and ground operations that began last December 16.
Turkey, the United States and Iraq all consider the PKK rebels a terrorist organization. The U.S. has provided intelligence to Turkey to aid in the strikes, but Iraqi-Kurdish leaders in northern Iraq have criticized the bombing campaign.
Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Coming up, President Bush takes to the skies in the New Year searching for a legacy beyond the war in Iraq. We'll have a special report.
Also, we'll focus on a state in the front lines of the war against illegal immigration. It's struggling to repair its broken borders. And we'll talk to the lawmaker leading the crackdown on illegal aliens; all of that and more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Senator Jim Webb today stepped in front of an empty Senate chamber to gavel in and out a nine-second session and President Bush has the power to appoint officials without Senate consent during a holiday recess. Today's maneuver is designed to stop that.
Now President Bush today ended one bitter battle with Congress when he signed a massive $550 billion spending bill. The legislation bank rolls the federal government and the war in Iraq until September. President Bush boarded Air Force One for one day heading to his ranch in Crawford, Texas. He's preparing to expand his legacy beyond the war in Iraq and Afghanistan during the New Year. Ed Henry reports on a travel-packed agenda for 2008.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush on the tarmac in Texas, just one of many airports he'll be breezing through during his final year in office as he gears up for his heaviest international travel schedule ever.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm looking forward to going to the Middle East.
HENRY: He heads to Israel January 8th, then stops in hot spots like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, following up on the Annapolis summit.
BUSH: We've got a couple of objectives; one is to advance the Palestinian-Israeli peace process. Secondly, is to continue to work with our Arab friends on reconciliation with Israel.
HENRY: Then Air Force One heads to Africa in February, European summits in April and June as well as two stops in Asia, Japan for the G-8 summit in July and China for the Olympics in August. Mr. Bush is resting up in Crawford for all that globe trotting because he's in search of other legacy items beyond just the Iraq war. A major reason he'll be focusing so hard on foreign policy initiatives like broader Mideast peace.
The president's domestic legacy is thin, beyond the Medicare prescription drug benefit. His signature education reform law is struggling to be renewed because of conservative opposition while any benefits of the Bush tax cuts could be overshadowed by economic uncertainty and the mortgage crisis. And while the president's liberal use of the veto pen this year proved he's still relevant, it also antagonized the very Democratic leaders he'll need to compromise with next year to rack up major accomplishments on the domestic front.
BUSH: I don't know what I'm going to do after I'm president. Michael, I've got an exciting 13 months ahead. And I know you're just waiting for me to say sprint to the finish line so I won't, but...
(LAUGHTER)
HENRY: The only sprinting for the president here in Crawford will be on his mountain bike. For Christmas the first lady gave him some winter biking gear. In turn, the president gave her a new purse and a silver tray.
Ed Henry, CNN, with the president in Crawford, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The country's housing crisis continues to worsen; home prices are down for the tenth straight month. Now according to S&P Kay Schuller (ph) Index, the price of a single family home plunged 6.7 percent in October. This is the largest drop in prices in more than 16 years. Prices are dropping the fastest in California, Florida, the Midwest and the Southeast. Miami saw the biggest drop in home prices. Prices in that city dropped more than 12 percent from a year ago.
Well it's time now for some of your thought and Bernadette wrote to us from Connecticut, "Lou, it was great to be an Independent at Christmas time. This year at Christmas dinner when the family Democrats quarreled with the family Republicans, I just relaxed and watched the show. Thanks for the great inspiration."
Les in Texas wrote, "I have always voted Democrat. However after listening to the debates I now realize that their colors are not red, white and blue. I will now be voting Independent. And please don't run for president; we need people like you out here in the trenches."
And Loyette in Missouri wrote, "I am an 82-year-old grandmother and it's about time someone with common sense like you came along, keep it coming."
We'll have more of your e-mails later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of Lou's book "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit." It's a new book that corporate America, the Democrats and the Republicans don't want to you read.
And coming up, a crackdown on illegal immigration; how one city is reacting after a police officer was shot to death by a criminal illegal alien. We'll also talk to the author of one of the state's ground breaking new laws.
Also Hillary Clinton's resume, it's long but critics say short on hands-on experience. Some of the best political analysts will be here as we examine the former first lady's political past.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: As part of our reporting on the crisis of illegal immigration throughout 2007, we've paid particular attention to one state, Arizona. Striving to fix its broken border with Mexico, looking very much like a model for the nation. An example that we first reported in September, the city of Scottsdale is taking action after a police officer was shot to death by an illegal alien. That community now requiring all criminal suspects to state upon arrest whether or not they're in the country legally.
In a moment, we will be speaking with the Arizona state representative Russell Pearce. He's a former sheriff's deputy and author of Arizona's ground breaking anti-immigration laws. But first, Casey Wian has the latest on the Arizona crackdown.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In September, Phoenix police officer, Nick Erfle was gunned down while attempting to arrest Erik Martinez, a criminal illegal alien who had been deported to Mexico in 2006.
LT. BENNY PINA, PHOENIX POLICE DEPT: He has had several arrests in the past and he's a documented member of a local street gang.
WIAN: Police say after killing Erfle, Martinez took a motorist hostage, then he was shot and killed by other officers. Martinez's criminal history is a prime example of the gaps in U.S. immigration law enforcement. After serving prison time for theft, Martinez was deported by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, but he was able to illegally re-enter the United States, which outraged local officials at the time.
MAYOR PHIL GORDON, PHOENIX: This individual that took our officer's life today is a perfect example, a poster child of the failed Washington policies in terms of securing our border.
WIAN: Martinez was again arrested by Scottsdale police for assault but they did not notify ICE and he was released on bail by a judge. He could have been sentenced to 20 years in prison if convicted of felony illegal reentry. Officials say it's an oversight that cost the life of a Phoenix police officer. Now the Scottsdale P.D. is tying to prevent it from happening again.
SGT. MARK CLARK, SCOTTSDALE POLICE DEPT: What happened was this tragic event last fall, it really - it caused us to look at, well No. 1, we happen to be the agency, the last agency to arrest this criminal. And he was ultimately released by the judge later. But it caused us to look at how do we deal with the illegal immigrants in our community that commit crimes?
WIAN: Now Scottsdale police ask every criminal suspect where they were born and if they are in the United States illegally. If officers suspect they are, they call an immigration and customs enforcement hot line so ICE can hold the suspect for prosecution or deportation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: ICE has increased the resources available to local law enforcement in Arizona. For example it has made detention and removal officers now available 24 hours a day. Kitty? PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Casey Wian.
Well the results of Arizona's crackdown have been nothing short of remarkable. In the border patrol's Yuma sector, arrests of illegal immigrants have dropped from 119,000 last year to 38,000 in 2007. Not only does this trend continue downward, but authorities in Arizona report that border crime has dropped significantly as well.
Joining us now from Phoenix is Arizona state representative Russell Pearce. He's a former sheriff's deputy. He's also author of Arizona's groundbreaking anti-illegal immigration laws. And thank you for being with us, Mr. Pearce.
RUSSELL PEARCE (R), ARIZONA STATE LEGISLATURE: Thank you.
PILGRIM: You have a tough new law. It's going into effect in January. Do you believe it's already acting as a deterrent?
PEARCE: Well, if the pundits are to be believed, yes, it is. They say dozens are leaving every day. Hundreds are leaving monthly and that's its intent. Clearly illegal is illegal. They don't have right to be here, they don't have a right to take jobs that belong to Americans. And then you can't ignore the economic impact. Arizona, $2 billion a year, $2 billion a year just in K-12 to educate illegal alien children.
Plus the crime, plus as you talked about. And this crime isn't just Officer Erfle. It's kind of like the Newark, New Jersey incident of the MS-13 gangs that execution style murdered those young college students.
This is a daily event throughout the United States. This is a daily event. In Arizona, you've got Officer Adkins, Officer Martin, Officer Erfle, Officer Glidewell. You've got Deputies Pierce, Deputy Archslinger (ph), you've got Officer Eagle down at the Park Range. You've got several agents.
This is just Arizona. I mean, it is outrageous that we would think this is just collateral damage for the cheap labor advocates as they continue to import and lure illegal aliens across the border with jobs. Enough is enough. Arizona is speaking out and we're not going to take it anymore.
PILGRIM: Let's take our viewers through some of the points of your law which is very, very tough on employers. If an employer knowingly employs an illegal alien on the first offense, the business temporarily loses their license and face probation for three years. If they're caught again, the license is permanently revoked.
Some are saying it's like a corporate death penalty if you are involved in hiring illegal aliens. You're basically cutting off the demand for the cheap labor force, correct?
PEARCE: Absolutely. We live in a free market. The market will adjust, but what you can't do is allow businesses to rely on staying open while breaking the law and yet ignore all the damage to Americans and the taxpayer. And enough is enough.
This law is fair. And it will be proven to be the fairest and most nondiscriminatory law in the nation. Tough, but fair. You have to knowingly hire an illegal alien. That's been the law since 1986. It's a felony under federal law, you can't knowingly hire an illegal alien.
And in Arizona though, and in the nation, you've always had to rely and perform what is the I-9 process, that's documentation of eligibility and so forth. But that's been an employer fraudulent ridden process because if you just have documents, and even though they're fraudulent, you know they are, you can kind of wink and nod and put them in the folder.
Now in Arizona, we're going to demand by law that you sign up for the e-verify program. It used to be the basic pilot. That program will tell you very clearly whether they're eligible to work here. The reason people don't like to sign up for it, they don't want to know if their workers are legal or not legal. Now they're going to have to. No more winking and nodding. And again, if you knowingly hire an illegal alien, first offense, up to 10 days suspension, three years probation. Subsequent violation, you lose your right to do business in the state of Arizona.
PILGRIM: I want to talk to the figures. It's 9-to-12 percent of the workforce in mostly low skilled jobs in Arizona is illegal. The law was challenged by business groups last week, it survived that challenge. A judge is going to hold a hearing on the constitutionality of this law in about two weeks saying that, you know, a state law can't override federal law. What do you think of these challenges?
PEARCE: Well, I love them because they're going to get put in their place. You know, clearly, states have inherent authority to enforce federal law, including immigration law. Had Congress not wanted the states to enforce these laws, they have what is called plenary powers. They could have invoked those and preempted the states from enforcing these laws. They didn't do that. In fact, Congress has made it clear it's always been the intents for the states.
When do not states have a constitutional responsibility for their citizens for the economic harm, the crime and damage and the cost to the taxpayers, the legal citizens? We have a constitutional responsibility. The citizens have a constitutional right and it's time for our politicians and our policy makers to quit hiding and put America first, put the American citizens first and enforce the law.
And that's what's going to happen. They will learn, this law is constitutional, it's fair and it's legal. And it is going to survive the challenge. I truly believe because again, it's written entirely with knowing that we were going to be sued. I was very careful to make sure this complied with previous court rulings and the constitution and congressional intent.
PILGRIM: We will keep the focus on it as it survives these challenges. Thank you very much for being on the program Russell Pearce.
PEARCE: And it will, thank you very much.
PILGRIM: Still ahead, Republican president candidate Mike Huckabee says he's tough on immigration but he's overselling his record perhaps as Arkansas governor. That's what his critics say.
Rudy Giuliani looking past the Iowa caucuses. We'll tell you what you his new game plan is for winning the Republican nomination.
And Hillary Clinton gaining support of at least one group of voters in Iowa. We'll have those stories and a lot more when we return. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: There's new information tonight regarding Rudy Giuliani's hospital stay last week. Giuliani's personal physician just issued a statement saying Giuliani was suffering from headache and fatigue. Giuliani, as you may recall, was rushed to a hospital in St. Louis just before Christmas, while heading back to New York from campaigning. Giuliani underwent tests, no medication was prescribed and he was recommended a light workload for a few days. Giuliani's doctors said "It is my medical opinion that Rudy Giuliani is in very good health."
Well, with a clean bill of health, Rudy Giuliani is moving on to the next political battleground. And Giuliani, who is still the national front-runner, keep that in mind, currently third though among Iowa voters and now only eight days until Iowa caucuses and Giuliani has all but abandoned that state. Instead, he is focusing on the key state of Florida. John Zarrella is in Florida for more on Giuliani's new game plan. John?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, Rudy Giuliani certainly looked energize and he said he feels great following a health scare last week where he was briefly hospitalized with flu-like symptoms. Giuliani came here to Largo, Florida, to meet with veterans at an American Legion post. His message to them, he's going to be strong on the military and he's going to help veterans.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: A brief photo op, then closed doors while Rudy Giuliani met privately with about a dozen veterans.
RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to make sure we support our military. Make sure it has the resources that it needs in order to get the job done.
TIM NEWLAND, VETERAN: We're going do have a lot more veterans, you know, coming home from the current conflict. And it's essential that we take care of those guys.
ZARRELLA: While most republican presidential hopefuls are campaigning in Iowa or New Hampshire, Giuliani is in Florida. The former New York City mayor is hoping climate change will reinvigorate his campaign, which has gotten the cold shoulder from voters in New Hampshire and Iowa. Polls have Giuliani leading in Florida, a state his campaign says is hugely important.
GIULIANI: This is also a very big state. It's a state that's very diverse. If you win Florida, it says something about your ability to win a general election. All the primaries are important, but this one is particularly important.
ZARRELLA: If nominated, Giuliani says the issues in the general election - healthcare, taxes, terrorism - will be essentially the same, no matter which Democrat he faces.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: The bottom line, Giuliani said, is simple. You simply have to win enough primaries to get the nomination. Kitty?
PILGRIM: Thanks, that was John Zarrella reporting from Largo, Florida.
And joining me now for more on the Giuliani campaign, all the day's political news, three of the best political analysts in the country. We have New York syndicated columnist Miguel Perez, "New York Daily News" columnist Michael Goodwin and in our Washington bureau, Diana West of the "Washington Times." And Diana is also the author of "The Death of the Grown Up." Thank you for all being here.
Let's just start with the Giuliani strategy, just skip it all, go to Florida and push for the big ticket with the very big state in Florida.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: I think he's making a necessity or a virtue out of necessity there because he actually wasted a lot of money in New Hampshire, didn't really move the polls at all. In fact, he went down slightly despite $3 million of advertising.
So and Iowa he never really had much traction. So he's got to put all his chips on Florida primarily. He's not doing well in South Carolina either. So Florida is kind of a big important state for him whereas the others have big important states earlier. So it's a strategy, it may work. But it's somewhat risky.
PILGRIM: Do you think you can do this, skip Iowa, New Hampshire, not win either and move on, is it possible?
MIGUEL PEREZ, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: I think it's possible. But it's a hell of a gamble he's taking especially when as Michael just explained, he has spent so much resources and so much energy in New Hampshire, not so much in Iowa, but still, you know. If Huckabee or Romney or McCain come out of the first caucus and primary with a lot of momentum, Giuliani has a lot to lose.
PILGRIM: It makes a lot of sense to focus on the state because you have Romney really staying against the McCain surge in New Hampshire, focusing on your strengths and yet, it is kind of a gamble. Diana, what do you think?
DIANA WEST, WASHINGTON TIMES: Well, his strategy depends on a split verdict coming out of Iowa and New Hampshire and some of the other early primaries leading up to Florida. And so far, so far it's certainly very conceivable, we will have such a verdict. So again, it's a risky strategy but it works if it works.
PILGRIM: Let's look at Mike Huckabee. And he's really working very hard to protect his lead in Iowa. Very much a photo op today. He went hunting. Let's take a look at what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, our campaign, a lot of people didn't think we were even in the game. And here right at the end of the time leading up to the caucuses, you know, we proved that if you just stay out there in the woods, keep your gun ready, might turn out OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: This was a real sell on image, the man of the people.
GOODWIN: I guess hunting as a metaphor. I mean it's an important constituency in Iowa. He's clearly going for the real conservative vote, between the evangelical vote and now the hunting, he's trying to portray himself as the real conservative. And it may work for him there. Romney's hold on that constituency is a little shaky.
And if he can turn the troops out in Iowa, Huckabee could be sort of catapulted into a real contention nation-wide.
PILGRIM: He's staying very much in character with the sort of folksy hunting, the contrast with Romney, not hunting very frequently.
GOODWIN: The hat didn't look so good.
PILGRIM: I have to say the outfit wasn't compelling, not among the female voters. Go ahead, Miguel.
PEREZ: Well you know the idea of Huckabee taking all this momentum to the rest of the country once he wins, if he does win in Iowa is tremendous. So you know, it's a huge gamble for Romney, if he doesn't win Iowa now and it's a huge gamble for him if he doesn't win New Hampshire. If he loses both, I think Romney is out of the picture because if McCain is going to gain enormous strength to go on, so is Huckabee.
PILGRIM: You know, Huckabee has been under attack and the "Washington Times" took him to task today saying that when he was governor of Arkansas he signed a bill to order state police to arrest illegal aliens, but he didn't complete the whole process and now the current governor has begun negotiations with DHS to follow through on that. But is this sort of immigration issue going to be a problem for Huckabee? Diana? WEST: Yes, well I think it is. As governor, Huckabee let 20 months go by without doing the required paperwork really to get the state troopers trained according to the federal guidelines, so that they could begin exercising the federal immigration laws.
I think what we're going to do see with Huckabee, you've got 40 percent of the Republican turnout expected to be evangelical in Iowa. For whom, for example, the life issue is very important. But I think as we look at him on immigration, on taxes and so on, he will seem to be emerging as less a conservative than I think someone from the Christian left because of his positions on these very key conservative issues.
GOODWIN: The only distinction I would draw, however is that among his competition on immigration, there isn't any really. None of them are real hard conservatives on immigration. Giuliani, Romney, McCain, all have the same problems. So somehow that vote I think is not going to have an absolute favorite.
PILGRIM: All right gentlemen, we'll take a quick break, we'll come back to the polls and we'll take a look. A reminder now to vote in our poll tonight. Do you believe now is the time for an independent candidate who will represent the needs of the American people and not pander to special interests? Yes or no, cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes and we'll be back with more of our panel, so stay with us.
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PILGRIM: We're back with our panel, Miguel Perez, Michael Goodwin and Diana West. Let's move on to the Democrats. You know, there was a really good article in the "New York Times" today to give them credit, that looks at Hillary Clinton's background as first lady. It says, eight years she was there, but she didn't meet -- she met with the heads of state, she wasn't given security clearance. She didn't attend National Security Council meetings.
Let's take a quote from that article so we can know what we're talking about. "The junior senator from New York has a few significant legislative accomplishments to her name. She has cast herself, instead, as a first lady like no other: a full partner to her husband in his administration."
And then yet the article takes issue with that. Michael, what do you think?
GOODWIN: Look, a fundamental issue was the first lady. Particularly after the health care debacle early on, she really pulled back. There was absolutely an attempt to keep her out of the spotlight to make her, you know, more like a traditional first lady and less like a policy maker or full partner or co-president.
That's the role she played for most of the eight years. She can't have it both ways. She can't say I was a full partner now when at the time she denied it. PILGRIM: Let's look at where she's doing in the polls. And this is of course Iowa where it's very close. Clinton 31 percent, Obama 26, Edwards, who is kind of the wild card in this, 21 percent as McCain is with the Republicans.
Miguel, this very close race is tough, isn't it?
PEREZ: It is tough. And they're both over there, they're both concentrating, all of them actually, Edwards is the only one that's out in New Hampshire for a couple of days. But the fact that Clinton and Obama are concentrating in Iowa means that they really, really know what's at stake there. And I think it's make it or break it for Obama in this race. If he wins here, it really could change the whole thing around. If Hillary loses, she's in trouble.
PILGRIM: Yeah. Mrs. Clinton going for the older female vote, Mr. Obama going for the basically younger youth vote, college-age kids. Tough strategy trying to divide the assets there. What do you think of this, Diana?
WEST: Well, yes, that's very true. It is a tough strategy. Older ladies don't like to go out into the cold on a snowy night.
PILGRIM: I wouldn't underestimate them.
WEST: And the young people it turns out, a lot of the college students aren't around. So we don't know how this is going to play out.
But with Mrs. Clinton, it is interesting the way she is trying to play her record. I would say she wasn't quite a traditional first lady given her deep involvement in so many unusual scandals. And I think that calling her experience into question does bring us back to the fact that he is where she because she was married to who she is married. And you can't get away from that. And again how this will play out, we really have yet to see.
PILGRIM: All right. Gentlemen, I think we have to wrap it here though. Michael Goodwin, Miguel Perez, Diana West, thank you.
And still ahead, the world's largest retailer is paying more when it's trying to get a good deal from the government. We're going have that story when we return so stay with us.
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PILGRIM: Another quick programming note, be sure to stay with CNN this New Year's Eve. Anderson Cooper hosts the celebration live from Times Square in New York City. That's next Monday, of course, December 31st. And this year we want to include you in the broadcast. You still have plenty of time to log on to CNN.com/iparty to submit your video, photos and of course any resolutions. We'll be taking them.
Well, lobbying government comes at a price. Even corporations are paying more to get their message across to lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Wal-Mart, for instance. The retailing giant spent about $1 million on average a year on lobbying from 1999 to 2005. Then in 2006, Wal-Mart paid nearly $2.5 million to ensure favorable legislation. The world's largest retailer is well on its way to break that in-house spending record. In just the first six months of this year, Wal-Mart she would out nearly $1.8 million for lobbying federal lawmakers.
Let's take a look at tonight's poll - 96 percent of you say you believe now is the time for an independent candidate who will represent the needs of the American people and not pander to special interests.
We do have time for some more e-mails.
Marcia in Wisconsin: "Thank you for standing up and speaking for the majority of Americans who have no voice and no presidential candidate to speak for us concerning our deep, deep concern about illegal immigration."
Thomas in South Carolina: "Hi Lou, I just wanted you to know that you have become a household word around here. Keep doing what you are doing and maybe we will get back to being the America that we use to be."
Deane in Oregon: "The vast majority of U.S. citizens are against illegal immigration and we, the silent majority, need to raise hell with our elected officials. They seem to care only about their jobs and getting re-elected. I'm sure, Lou, you get a lot of heat for your position on this, but it is so important and appreciated by all of us. Thank you."
Sandy in Kansas: "Lou, I'm registered now as an Independent, how exciting. Thanks for keeping us informed and bringing issues to light. I watch you every night, wouldn't miss your program for anything. Keep up the good work."
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com and if we read your e-mail here, we'll send you a copy of Lou's new book "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit." It's a book that corporate America, the Democrats and the Republicans don't want to you read.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York.
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