Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Campaign Happenings; U.S.-Iran Showdown; Mexican Drug War; More Mortgage Meltdown Casualties
Aired January 07, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, it's time for that change. Tonight, presidential candidates charge through New Hampshire in a final push to win votes in tomorrow's high-stakes primary. Independent voters seething with anger at political orthodoxy could make or break the campaigns of some of these candidates. We'll have complete coverage of all of that, all the day's news and much more here straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, January 7. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. A new CNN opinion poll tonight indicates Democratic presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama could be on the verge of victory in tomorrow's New Hampshire primary. But Senator Clinton is fighting to the very end. She's hoping to win support of many voters who remain undecided in New Hampshire.
In the Republican race, the CNN poll suggesting Senator John McCain is leading Mitt Romney. The CNN-WMUR New Hampshire poll conducted by the University of New Hampshire gives Senator McCain 31 percent against 26 percent for Romney.
Senator Obama has 39 percent support, a lead of nine percent over Senator Clinton, who has 30 percent. Those estimates, we should point out, with a 6 percent undecided and 4 percent margin of error, all leaving it somewhat in debate. Thank you very much to the polling organization for pointing that out. We have extensive coverage here tonight beginning with Candy Crowley in Manchester, New Hampshire with the Clinton campaign -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know Lou, it had been exactly a year almost for Hillary Clinton and in the past couple of weeks, it has been, in fact, very intense. All of that adds up to a candidate who sometimes shows an emotion.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillary Clinton!
(APPLAUSE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): The wear and tear takes a toll not even seen, much less heard. The question was how does she do it? HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I couldn't do it if I just didn't passionately believe it was the right thing to do. I have so many opportunities from this country. I just don't want to see us fall backwards, you know?
(APPLAUSE)
CROWLEY: It's a roller-coaster ride in Hillary Clinton's campaign as the candidate most ready to be president has been turned on its head.
H. CLINTON: And I don't think my experience disqualifies me. I think actually my experience qualifies me.
CROWLEY: She has a message problem. Her experience, her 16 years on the national scene and her famous name strikes some voters as same old, same old. It does weigh on the mind of undecided Democrat Jan Collier.
JAN COLLIER, UNDECIDED DEMOCRAT: Her whole message early on was experience, which is great, too. I'm just not sure that it will be the kind of change I'm looking for, so -- which is like throw the bums out and start over.
CROWLEY: Clinton actually picked up on the change thing this summer when her ready-to-lead campaign turned into ready-for-change, ready-to-lead. But Iowa voters overwhelmingly saw Barack Obama as the agent of change. Now with her loss in Iowa and discouraging polls in New Hampshire, Clinton is going after him.
H. CLINTON: And when you give a speech and say you will not vote to fund the war in Iraq and then you vote for $300 billion of funding, that is not change.
CROWLEY: She's no underdog, but overnight the roller-coaster went down. Hillary Clinton went from front-runner to injured candidate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: The good news for Hillary Clinton is if she pulls this out in New Hampshire, she will be stronger than she was going into Iowa -- Lou.
DOBBS: Candy, thank you very much, Candy Crowley from Manchester. Senator Barack Obama shrugging off attacks from Senator Clinton. He's trying to reinforce his message of being the only genuine, quote, "agent of change"; Senator Obama trying to enlist Democrats, Republicans, Independents behind an agenda, calling for sweeping reform in Washington. The Senator is delivering that message to large crowds of supporters now in New Hampshire. Jessica Yellin has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not Beatle mania. It's an overflow crowd for Barack Obama. Several hundred people who couldn't get into a rally gathered outside for a glimpse.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What an unbelievable turnout.
YELLIN: Obama insist the interest in him is part of a larger national craving.
OBAMA: There is something stirring out there where the American people are saying, we want to try something new, we want to try something different.
YELLIN: Something has happened since Iowa, voters who attend Obama events these days walk away talking as if they're in rapture.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's thrilling. It's exhilarating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He really makes you feel like, wow, we can actually do this. It was great to listen to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It reminds me of the Kennedys, the great election of '68, reaching after for something new and something different.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My friend just felt like he met a rock star, but (INAUDIBLE) little better than that.
YELLIN: Many of these supporters don't actually know Obama's position on the issues of the day -- education, health care, the economy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm learning more all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now you're pressing me here.
YELLIN: But that seems less important to them than who he is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm getting a sense of how he would view most things. He's got a big, broad mind. And I like that.
YELLIN: Obama's growing popularity is troubling to some in the Democratic Party.
STU ROTHENBERG, POLITICAL ANALYST: I think some liberal Democrats don't like Barack Obama because he's not angry enough, he's not partisan enough, he's not out for George W. Bush's blood.
YELLIN: And you'll find them here, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess they expected a little more from Obama, more change. I liked Kucinich I (INAUDIBLE) to Kucinich.
YELLIN: But in these crowds, they're certainly the minority.
(END VIDEOTAPE) YELLIN: Lou, some of this, no doubt, is the celebrity factor, people turning out to see this newly famous man, but I have to say in covering politics, I've never seen anything quite like the fervor you observe at some of Obama's rallies. I'll tell you that his staff is being cautious. One of his top advisers said to me today look it wasn't so long ago we were left for dead by the side of the road. Once that happens, you never get overconfident -- Lou.
DOBBS: Perhaps not, but becoming an agent of change and having no one be able to tell you what the change is, what's that all about?
YELLIN: Well you know he doesn't always get into the nitty- gritty of the specifics, it's true. He lays out some plans. But people are not responding to the policy specifics. They're responding to some sort of larger message they get from him that they feel he's connecting to sort of the best in people. At least that's what they say to us when we interview them as they come out -- Lou.
DOBBS: I think that is as some of my friends would say from many years past that is indeed deep. Jessica, thank you very much; Jessica Yellin.
In the Republican race, apparent frontrunner Senator John McCain and Mitt Romney are locked in a bitter fight to the finish in New Hampshire. Senator McCain using strong language to criticize what he says are Romney's many flip-flops on vital issues. Romney striking back of course accusing Senator McCain of being a Washington insider. Dana Bash has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When you're feeling good, there's time for a little nostalgia.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've had a great time. This has been a wonderful experience again.
BASH: But for all his hope of a comeback, John McCain knows it's do-or-die in his beloved "granite state".
MCCAIN: I believe that I have the experience and the knowledge and the judgment.
BASH: So along his final straight-talk express tour here, a few last whacks at chief rival, Mitt Romney.
MCCAIN: One of my opponents not long ago said you don't need foreign policy experience. My friends look at the world.
BASH: And off to the next stop, urgency, an understatement. Perhaps even more so for Romney, a second-place finish for the second time could wound him beyond repair.
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Please go out and vote multiple times tomorrow. That is, if you're for me. BASH: So the former governor from New Hampshire's neighboring Massachusetts touted his outside Washington experience with his favorite new word.
ROMNEY: And I can bring the change that America needs.
BASH: And poked McCain in his soft spots.
MCCAIN: His view with regards to illegal immigration which is that there would be a form of amnesty was, again, something which I think people in New Hampshire will find very troubling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
BASH: Mike Huckabee's hoping for more than a burger bearing his name, perhaps third place to show appeal beyond Iowa's evangelical base, and Rudy Giuliani?
RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're a multi-front operation.
BASH: He's slipped in the polls and faces increasing skepticism, his focus on later contests will work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: If McCain wins, he's going to go monoamine (ph) with Mitt Romney in Michigan. That would be their next stop. Now that is Mitt Romney's home state, but it's also welcome territory for John McCain. He won there in 2000 just like he won here in New Hampshire. But Lou, I think if we've learned anything along the way is that we should take one state and one contest at a time -- Lou.
DOBBS: Indeed. Thank you very much, Dana; Dana Bash.
Still ahead here we'll have more on this presidential campaign. Also new concerns tonight about the Mexican government's out-right refusal to stop drug cartel violence across the border with the United States. Casey Wian has our report -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the war between the Mexican government and drug cartels continues to escalate. Now there's evidence drug traffickers are rigging Mexican elections -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, we look forward to your report.
Also tonight a dangerous confrontation between the United States Navy and Iran's Revolutionary Guard in the Persian Gulf, we'll have that report.
And Independent voters will determine who wins this presidential election. We'll have that special report on the rising backlash against political orthodoxy, partisanship and conventional wisdom.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: One of the most dangerous confrontations in years between the U.S. Navy and Iran's Revolutionary Guard. Five Revolutionary Guard boats speeding toward three of our warships in the Persian Gulf in what the Navy says was an aggressive and threatening manner. The Iranian boats turned away just as our warships were about to open fire. Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A potentially deadly military confrontation with an old enemy, Iran that all came close to becoming a shootout. It all happened Sunday morning in the Persian Gulf when three U.S. Navy warships were routinely sailing through the Strait of Hormuz. It was 7:40, suddenly five boats from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard approached at high speed. The Iranians ascent (ph) had the U.S. Navy ready to open fire.
VICE ADMIRAL KEVIN COSGRIFF, U.S. NAVAL FORCES CENTRAL COMMAND: These are, in my mind, unnecessarily provocative.
STARR: According to a timeline provided by the military to CNN, at 7:45 the Iranians swarmed around the U.S. ships. Two Iranian boats made a direct run at the USS Hopper the lead ship coming within 200 yards; 7:47, a threatening radio transmission is received saying, I am coming at you, you will explode in a couple of minutes; 7:49, the Iranians dropped white boxes in the water. The U.S. doesn't know if they contained explosives; 7:50, the Hopper's captain ordered a machine gun to be turned on the Iranians. At that point, the Iranians turned around and left. The senior U.S. admiral in the region says there have been encounters with the Iranians in the past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I take this incredibly seriously and I expect the commanding officers will successfully defend their ships and their crews at all times in this theater.
STARR: According to Iranian news agencies, the Revolutionary Guard denied any aggression against the U.S., but experts have long warned these tense waters can quickly spiral out of control.
JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: This is the most dangerous possibility of all that a war starts by accident, by a miscalculation, by the Revolutionary Guard going a little too far and the U.S. firing back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Lou, U.S. military commanders say this was one of the most provocative incidents with the Iranians in years, and, yes, they were within minutes of shooting the Iranians out of the water -- Lou.
DOBBS: To be clear here, Barbara, those five light (ph) boats of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard actually encircled the warship and came -- how close to that warship?
STARR: Well we said in that piece about 200 yards. Now, in the last couple of hours, the Navy said, well, maybe it was 500 yards. It really doesn't matter. What you're talking about is that real hair trigger. And the problem for the U.S. Navy, Lou, is to walk that fine line between being very tough on any Iranian provocation and not getting sucker-punched by them into a shooting war that they don't want. Today, they came out lucky. They're worried about what's going to happen next.
DOBBS: Luck should play no part in what the United States Navy is doing in that region, as you document. It is a tense and understandably tense region. That those craft could get that close to a U.S. Navy vessel is troubling for everyone. What are the rules of engagement?
STARR: Well, to be clear, we don't know, because the rules of engagement, as you say in those very tense waters, are classified. There are a number of escalator procedures. We do know that the commander of the Hopper was in the process of giving the shoot-to-kill order when the Iranians turned back. When I say luck, Lou, you know nobody wants to start World War III out there unless they absolutely have to.
DOBBS: And one of the ways in which it seems to me it might be prevented, Barbara, and I would love to hear what the United States general staff has to say about this, would make it very clear to Iran what the rules of engagement are and the distance at which we will tolerate their vessels approaching a ship of the line. This is an absurdity, it seems to me.
STARR: Well a lot of people are asking that very question because even the Navy today wanted to remind people about the USS Cole, which was bombed and several Navy sailors killed during a small boat attack. That's a big problem out in those waters. Those small boats come along very fast. And I must tell you, Lou, I suspect the facts are still unfolding as to what exactly transpired here.
DOBBS: Well they're discomforting facts at best to this point, although thank goodness nothing did happen of a violent nature as a result. Thank you very much, Barbara Starr from the Pentagon.
Up next, Mexican drug violence raging on our borders as the drug cartels become increasingly bolder. We'll have that report.
Millions of Americans have lost their homes in what many are now calling a white-collar crime wave. We'll tell you what, if anything, is being done to help victims of this mortgage and credit crisis and talk of an independent bid for the presidency stealing some of the limelight from New Hampshire today. We'll have that special report.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Mexico's drug cartels are taking the fight against thousands of Mexican troops all the way to the border; 2,500 people have been killed by the cartels in Mexico over just the past year. And this year is off to a violent start as well. Two senior police officers have been murdered; politicians are being threatened and kidnapped along the border. Casey Wian has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): While U.S. presidential candidates fret about the latest poll numbers, politicians in Mexico have much more serious worries, such as being kidnapped or threatened by drug cartels. Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina-Mora (ph) says drug trafficking organizations are influencing elections throughout Mexico. Mora (ph) told the newspaper "El Pais" (ph), "We have evidence, complaints from candidates who were kidnapped or intimidated, or who receives threats intended to influence the results of an election and the behavior of candidates."
Even a cousin of President Felipe Calderon was kidnapped and beaten before being released last week. Authorities are not saying if the kidnapping was linked to Calderon's widely publicized military campaign against drug traffickers.
PROF. GEORGE GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM & MARY: It's a growing problem because the Calderon administration is starting to crack down on some of the cocaine flows. In fact, the Calderon administration has severely weakened the Tijuana cartel, which is headless now.
WIAN: Two bodies found near this resort town of Rosarito Beach (ph) last week were identified as Tijuana police officers, one a commander. The "San Diego Tribune" reports the officers were suspected in the theft of a marijuana load from drug traffickers. The killings came just days after the entire Rosarito Beach (ph) police force was disarmed while Mexican federal authorities conduct background checks for drug cartel connections. Last year, the Tijuana police force received the same treatment.
Attorney General Medina-Mora (ph) says, "There are municipal police forces that have collapsed, that function more as an aid to organized crime than as protection for the public." He adds that drug cartels are suspected in a record 2,500 murders last year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: All this as the United States Congress is considering a Bush administration plan to send $1.4 billion in helicopters, aircraft and high-tech military equipment to Mexico to fight drug cartels over the next three years -- Lou.
DOBBS: And coming on the same day that the Justice Department, our Justice Department acknowledged that Mexico is the primary source of methamphetamines entering the United States. Casey, thank you very much, Casey Wian.
Time now for some of your thoughts. Bob in Pennsylvania said, "Are you now succumbing to the political show that we are seeing? Since when do we think the politicians are saying what they mean? They only say what will get them votes."
I assure you, I will be among the very last in this country to succumb to that particular show. And Anna in Wisconsin, "The way the Iowa votes went I would register as an Independent if you run for president." Well thank you for that.
And Ken in Hawaii, "I don't know why it took me so long to join the ranks of Independent voters, but today I can proudly say I am an Independent."
We're proud of you and we thank you. We hope everyone will consider doing exactly what you've done. We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit", the book that corporate America, the Democratic and Republican Parties and I suspect every one of these candidates of both parties simply don't want you to read.
Coming up next here, the rising power of Independent voters in this campaign. We'll examine the increasing demands for an end to political blather and partisanship.
Also Senator Hillary Clinton's campaign seems in the minds of some to be losing momentum. Top pollster John Zogby joins me to tell us whether the senator is actually losing ground and what it will take to regain her momentum.
And new concerns that the escalating mortgage and credit crisis could destroy the American dream for millions of our fellow Americans. We'll have that report and a great deal more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Millions of Americans now face the loss of their homes as this mortgage meltdown and credit crisis is threatening to drive our economy into recession. A distinguished panel calling the mortgage crisis a white-collar crime wave. Christine Romans reports now on calls for a moratorium and for foreclosures altogether, changes in the bankruptcy laws, and tougher regulation of the companies that wrote these disastrous mortgages.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can't do this.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New York's senior senator on the CEO of mortgage giant Countrywide Financial.
SEN CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I met this man Mazillo (ph) and let me tell you I'd like to boil him in oil, figuratively.
ROMANS: Figuratively of course. But he holds Countrywide and other lenders responsible for selling people loans they couldn't afford. At the eleventh annual Wall Street Project Economic Summit panelists call the sub-prime lending frenzy a white-collar crime wave and cited statistics that black and Hispanic borrowers were steered into high-interest loans far more than white borrowers even when adjusting for income and size of loan. In Texas, State Senator Rodney Ellis...
RODNEY ELLIS (D), TEXAS STATE SENATOR: People thought they had moved on up are finding out now that they're about to move out.
ROMANS: In Prince George's County, Maryland one mayor expects foreclosures on 13,172 homes.
MAYOR EUGENE GRANT, SEAT PLEASANT, MARYLAND: That's devastating. Then that impact is rippling as it relates to the devaluation of other homes. That devaluation is upward of $10,000 per home.
ROMANS: Outrage at lenders, dissatisfaction with the government's response so far and a host of solutions.
JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW COALITION: We want a plan, a massive plan with a massive crisis to restructure loans and not repossess homes.
ROMANS: Amending the bankruptcy code, one expert said, would help 600,000 distressed homeowners.
KEITH CORBETT, CENTER FOR RESPONSIBLE LENDING: Right now the bankruptcy code will allow a person to file bankruptcy and have relief with their second home, their boat, their car, but their primary residence, they get no relief.
ROMANS: And there was a call for a one-year moratorium on foreclosures.
JON WESTIN, ACORN: This in turn will give the individual homeowners time to work out their loans, get into fixed rate, prime loans that they can afford.
ROMANS: Time to sort out the victims of predatory lending from those who made irresponsible choices.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Countrywide Financial just sent us an e-mail that did not specifically respond to Senator Schumer's criticism, but did say it has programs to help distressed homeowners. It says it is identifying people who will have trouble facing higher adjustable rates this year. Countryside says it has helped 69,000 homeowners keep their homes in 2007, Lou, and is trying to help another 100,000 work out their mortgage problems right now -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well if this president and this administration had any guts, if this Congress, this Democratically-led Congress had any guts it would shut these people down right now in these foreclosures and get back to serious lending and look at what we're doing in terms of public policy.
Senator Schumer is talking about boiling the COO of Countrywide in oil. That's a great line. But the reality is the elected officials of both political parties in this white house and in this congress and including Senator Schumer are the ones, by the way, representing the district with the largest number of financial institutions in the country. That is New York, are the ones responsible for permitting this nonsense to occur. It is absolutely unconscionable.
ROMANS: All I can say is there's a great deal of distain from all quarters about the industry, about government, about the hope now initiative from the federal governments and the white house.
DOBBS: Which is nothing more than a band-aid and a P.R. stunt, in my opinion.
ROMANS: They're concerned that by the time it all shakes out, too many people are going to have lost their homes who could be helped right now.
DOBBS: Two million foreclosures over the course of the past year in this country. And we're looking at a prospect of just about that many in the year ahead as we see the resets on these mortgage loans.
A lot of people have a lot of explaining to do. And I love the fact that these presidential candidates of both political parties are just going on with their blather, whether it's Senator Obama, Senator Clinton talked at the margin about this issue. But I mean enough with the audacity of hope. Let's start getting real, start talking about real proposals, real plans and real action to get things straightened out in this country that is, right now, a horrible mess. Thank you very much, Christine Romans. And good for Jesse Jackson in holding that conference, trying to bring some more attention to it. Thank you very much.
Well, this broadcast often focuses on the need for independents. That's of all kind in politics, independent Americans in particular. Participants at a bipartisan forum today all denied they went to the University of Oklahoma to launch an independent party or set up someone's bid for president as an independent. But as Jim Acosta now reports, they all call for an end to the paralysis of partisanship in this country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't think of anything more appropriate than three cheesecakes.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg may have come bearing a big apple cheesecake in hand, but when he sat down at this bipartisan forum, hosted by former democratic Senator David Bourne, he served up the same old denial about running for president.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: I'm not a candidate, number one.
ACOSTA: Instead of discussing a third party, some of the nation's leading centrists agreed that rampant partisanship has left American with a broken government.
BLOOMBERG: Every one of the people here will tell you our experience is the public may not agree with you when you take a position but they respect you for it. We used to have that and we don't anymore.
ACOSTA: The result according to the participants is a country that can't solve its problems, whether it's the economy, national defense or the deficit.
FORMER SEN. SAM NUNN (D), GEORGIA: I heard a preacher say the other day, he said if you think you're a leader and you look over your shoulder and nobody's following, man, you're just taking a walk.
ACOSTA: A few at the forum have hinted they may support an independent presidential candidate. Nebraska's maverick republican Senator Chuck Hagel who is sometimes mentioned as a potential running mate for Mayor Bloomberg, left the door open a crack.
Do you feel like that atmosphere could possibly surface later on in this election cycle?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: Well, sure. I think as Dave Bourne said, this is not a one-time meeting for this group. We're going to continue to meet.
ACOSTA: Former democratic presidential contender Gary Hart says the subject of an independent bid did come up at times but only casually.
GARY HART, FMR. DEM. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We could well know by February 5th who the two nominees are. That's the time then to ask your question.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: As for February 5th or Super Tuesday, the thinking among some of the participants here is that if the parties nominate candidates on the extremes, that could open up room in the middle for a centrist contender, a third centrist contender. But at this point, out here in Oklahoma, it's not quite Independence Day just yet.
DOBBS: I think -- I take your point entirely, Jim. I also was taken by the comment by Mayor Bloomberg saying that you have to take unpopular positions. I think one of the problems and I don't know whether it was addressed today or not, tell me if you would, Jim, we're seeing an American public facing Washington, D.C. where parties and elected officials of both parties have taken a lot of unpopular positions and almost none of them comporting to the majority will of the American people. Was that little problem raised at all out there in the heartland?
ACOSTA: That was the issue raised today, Lou. This was not so much a talk about the litany of problems facing this country. It was really about process and how this country right now, according to these participants, and I think that most Americans would really agree with this, is simply poisoned with partisanship right now and it's just getting in the way of getting problems solved in this country. So one of the recommendations that this group came up with was to have a bipartisan cabinet, if that's possible, with the next president, if they could encourage the parties to commit to that. That is a possibility, I assume. But we haven't seen a bipartisan cabinet in sometime. It's not clear whether or not these parties would embrace that goal. But at least they say it's a first step.
DOBBS: They're good people trying to do the right thing. The fact is you could have given this president 50 percent democrats, 50 percent republicans and he would have still had them working for the political office in the white house. There are other issues here also at work.
Jim, we thank you very much for covering this story and look forward to your reports as these meetings continue as Senator Hagel suggested they would. We appreciate it.
ACOSTA: You bet.
DOBBS: Earlier today, I talked with Pulitzer Prize winning New York Daily News columnist Michael Goodwin who was in attendance for his assessment of that little meeting in Oklahoma.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: I think it's a serious group of people from all walks of life and experiences in government, governors, eight former senators and three former governors here along with others. And very serious about their concept that Washington is broken, congress is dysfunctional, the process isn't working. The big issues are not getting addressed because of the severe and serious political polarization that you talk about and we all see and so this group wants to do something about it.
DOBBS: Do they have any sort of any policy response?
GOODWIN: No policy response at all. In fact, they steered clear of specifics. They laid out a number of problems, the entitlement programs, the budget spending, the free trade issues, security issues. But they steered clear of offering any suggestions.
Really they're focused on the process in congress between congress and the white house. That is their focus.
I thought one thing they did not mention, Lou, sufficiently was the middle class. And the border issue was not really talked about. This is what I thought was perhaps the most interesting. We have to get the American people back involved, that the people have forgotten the duty that is the American people's duty to vote. I like that. I think that's an important part because the extremes have taken over because the public is sitting out the process.
DOBBS: I guess my problem with that idea that it's our duty to vote, it's our duty to make certain we have a choice. And frankly, the American people in my judgment aren't being given choices. The first duty, to provide choice, is the one to focus on rather than the duty to vote. Is there a plan for a follow-up meeting? Do you think that we're watching some powerful force be created out there in Oklahoma that could have some impact on American presidential politics?
GOODWIN: Well, it certainly could, Lou, if it's followed up. And also there's the question of Bloomberg who's kind of the 800-pound gorilla in the room because a lot of what goes on in the polarization is about money. Whether he runs was a big question. He ducked it as usual. But the fact that he's here suggests he's very, very interested. And I personally believe he will run if he thinks he can win.
DOBBS: All right. Michael Goodwin, thank you very much. We appreciate it and look forward to seeing you back.
GOODWIN: My pleasure, Lou.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: In our poll tonight, our question is straightforward. Would you actively support on independent candidate for president through volunteer work or with a donation? Yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast. We'll pass them on to Michael Bloomberg, of course.
Up next, the rising influence of independent voters in this country. John Zogby joins us to tell us whether they will be the deciding factor in tomorrow's primary in New Hampshire.
And Mitt Romney on the offensive against Senator McCain. We'll examine whether those attacks help Romney or McCain. I'll be joined by three of the best political analysts in the country here next. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The rising influence of independent voters, Senator Clinton's slide in the polls, Senator McCain's apparent rising momentum all could be factors in tomorrow's New Hampshire primary. Joining me now for more on that primary and indeed this presidential campaign year, John Zogby, president and CEO of Zogby International, joining us tonight from Utica, New York.
John, good to have you with us.
JOHN ZOGBY, PRES & CEO ZOGBY INTL.: Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: These numbers are really breathtaking in their volatility over the past week. What's going on?
ZOGBY: That's the Iowa bouts, for starters. But also voters voted for change. And so clearly Obama moves into New Hampshire with a huge bounce. But also as we discover, New Hampshire voters really like him.
On the other side, we have John McCain moving into a lead, but it's really interesting. I know we're going to talk about independents. What made --
DOBBS: You better believe it on this broadcast, John. We always do.
ZOGBY: Same here, too, Lou.
What made John McCain's campaign in 2000 were independents and the fact that he literally stole independents away from Bill Bradley eight years ago. This time around, it's Barack Obama who's taking independents away from the republican primary and moving them into the democratic primary.
DOBBS: And I wonder if that could also be an explanation for this late, if you will, it seems to me somewhat late decision on the part of Bradley to endorse Obama. Is that designed to influence the independents to the maximum level in New Hampshire?
ZOGBY: I think it could very well be. But also I think there's writing on the wall. I think Bill Bradley endorsed Howard -- I'm sorry -- Bill Bradley endorsed Howard Dean last time before Iowa, felt that he made a mistake. This time around, senses, like a lot of people, that Obama has huge moment numb his favor.
DOBBS: Let's talk about John McCain who seems to have regained momentum after being all but written off. What's going on there in New Hampshire?
ZOGBY: Well, John McCain has a huge lead among independents. But independents on the republican side look to be only about one- fourth of the total voters in the republican primary. But the important thing is that he's holding his own among republicans. That's where the battleground is. If Mitt Romney can regain some of those republicans, some of those conservative republicans back, then, in fact, Mitt Romney has a shot tomorrow. But that's what the battleground is.
DOBBS: Let's go back to something you said at the outset, something that we've been chronicling here; Candy Crowley our senior political correspondent in New Hampshire talking about, everyone's talk about it. And that is, a word I'm sick of hearing, "change," agents of change, change, and it doesn't make a difference whether you're republican or democrat, the front-runner or the back of the pack, the word is change. I understand people saying Senator Obama's likable. What I don't understand is Senator McCain or Senator Obama being taken up with this identity with change. What is that all about?
ZOGBY: We are coming out of an era of hyper-partisanship and here's an example where the voters are actually leading the leaders on this. And at least so far, what's gelling around this idea of change is that for Barack Obama, the fact that here's a democrat who appeals to the center, who appeals to moderates. John McCain, the same sort of thing. This is where the battle will be. This will not be a hyper-partisan election.
In Barack Obama's case, you also have the appeal, the unique appeal that he has to younger voters and the fact that he also embodies in many ways a new demographic in American life. So there's plenty of change on the Obama side. With John McCain, there is the notion of the iconoclast, the maverick, someone who has not been entirely with the hyper-partisanship on the republican side.
DOBBS: Did you just name the two winners in your judgment in tomorrow's election?
ZOGBY: Almost.
DOBBS: Okay, we're going to leave it with that ambiguity. John Zogby, thanks very much for being with us.
ZOGBY: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: A reminder to vote in our poll. Tonight's question is, would you actively support an independent candidate for president through volunteer work or with a donation? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. The results are upcoming shortly.
Still ahead, will independent voters be pushing Senator McCain to victory in New Hampshire tomorrow? Senator Clinton trying to stop Senator Obama in New Hampshire. I'll be joined by three of the best political analysts in the country here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: CNN's coverage of the New Hampshire primary continues at the top of the hour. Wolf Blitzer here now with a preview. Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou.
It's the final push in New Hampshire. The candidates will now try to close the deal with voters. A crucial contest beginning only a few hours from now. The best political team on television standing by to bring us all the coverage.
Plus, New Hampshire is not Iowa. We're going to tell you what to look for in the granite state. Our analysts will use the magic of CNN's new multi-touch screen.
And every four years, the voters of Duckville in New Hampshire, they stay up late to cast the earliest votes. We're with them as the clock counts down to midnight. A lot of coverage coming up.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Wolf. Thank you very much.
Three of the best political analysts in the country join me now. New York Daily News columnist Errol Louis, democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf and in Manchester, New Hampshire, Jonathan Martin, senior political reporters, Politico.com. Thank you all for being here. We just heard John Zogby, Hank, say it looks like McCain and Obama are going to take this thing. What do you think?
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Hard to count the Clintons out, that's number one. Number two, who's turning out? Independent voters turning out, younger voters turning out? Not a lot of younger voters in New Hampshire necessarily. But was McCain country beforehand and Barack Obama has momentum. It seems to make a good deal of sense. DOBBS: Errol?
ERROL LOUIS, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: If you bet on momentum, as recently as last September, Obama was 20 points behind in New Hampshire. Now he's up 10 points. Unless all of those polls were wrong, there's some movement there going on for him. And it should play itself out tomorrow.
DOBBS: To look back at those polls of the late summer compared to what's happening now, it's striking. Jonathan, is it palpable there in New Hampshire what is happening?
JONATHAN MARTIN, POLITICO.COM: Oh, my goodness, absolutely, Lou. You can't swing a dead cat in this state and not hit a dozen 20- something kids working their hearts out for Obama. It's sort of a latter-day version of clean-for-gene, the famous McCarthy campaign in '68.
DOBBS: I was one of those folks out there.
MARTIN: They're all supporting Obama. The Clinton folks know it and are looking past here planning, hoping to survive till February 5th because tomorrow is not shaping up to be a good day for them.
DOBBS: And Hank, your thoughts on precisely that issue? What do they do?
SHEINKOPF: They've got to hope they can win someplace. The issue in presidential campaigns and in primaries is you've got to win somewhere. If you don't win, you're not in it. Rudy Giuliani is waiting to win. She's waiting to win. Romney is waiting to win. It doesn't matter. The press core and everybody else will say, where's the mo? No mo, no go and no dough. That's what happens.
DOBBS: Can you top that one -- say it again.
SHEINKOPF: No mo, no go and no dough? That's what happens.
DOBBS: You're next, Jonathan.
MARTIN: I think Hank's right. The fact is, he's right. You've got to get a "W." You have to get a win on the board. The Romney campaign's chosen metaphor is to use Olympic terms and they're racking up silver medals. This problem is this is not the Olympics. When you put a lot of money and time into states and you come up short and you come in second place, that hurts you and the fact is, Romney's campaign, working really hard, thinks they have a shot tomorrow, not a great shot but a shot tomorrow. A second-place finish for them here would be very, very tough, given the money he's spent and the time he's invested here.
DOBBS: At the same time, I have to ask, Errol, are we in the national news media over-baking this thing just a bit? Because much is being made of John Edwards, second-place finish in Iowa. Much is being made of the votes that are going to drive through for a victory of Huckabee in Iowa, where he's going to place in New Hampshire. I mean let's back away from this. We're talking about in the case of Huckabee and Obama, in Iowa, a total of about 120,000 votes. And the national press core is making so much of this. I don't know that we can do any worse to --
LOUIS: It was more than that. It was 239. That's the point. There were --
DOBBS: I'm talking about for each candidate in combination.
LOUIS: The total together of course was more -- it was a record for Iowa. That tells you something. And that's the new "X" factor. Ordinarily if this had played out like any other election, you'd be right, that the 2500 credential press in Iowa were there just kind of fabricating stories --
DOBBS: I'm not suggesting people are doing that. But I'm suggesting that, my goodness, we're divining a lot from very little, aren't we?
LOUIS: All I can tell you is from having seen it. And I'd agree with what Jonathan is saying up in New Hampshire. There's something new going on out there you don't normally see.
When I was in Iowa, subzero temperatures on the morning of the caucuses, there was only one campaign people out there waving signs at the street corners and that was the Obama people. There was only one campaign I went to where for an hour after the rally was over, people stayed and mingled and wanted to be with each other. It's something new.
SHEINKOPF: The baby-boomers are being told it's time to retire to Florida, let the younger people take over. The question is are the younger people going to show up? Remember Joe Lieberman's campaign, 2006 senate race. Mike Barone wrote a column afterwards and said look, people showed up, young people showed up to protect their lifestyles not because they believed anything. And they didn't show up in the fall. The challenge these young people have is to show up in the fall and vote. Will they? That's the real question.
DOBBS: The generational wars are on, Jonathan.
MARTIN: And I'm going to stick up for my generation, Lou, right now.
DOBBS: Go get 'em.
MARTIN: The fact is that I agree in this way. Every four years or every two years, really, folks will say, the key is youth. And kids never do come out. But the fact is, Obama did get a good degree of folks in their 20s and 30s, perhaps not 18, 19 but folks in their 20s and 30s in Iowa. If he can do the same thing here, it's not even going to be close.
DOBBS: I want to throw one thing out for your consideration. When I say I am sick of this talk about change, Hillary Clinton talking about change, Obama talking about change, everybody talking about change. When is somebody going to -- because in the news craft, we try to move everybody away from one word to the word change when we're being objective journalists. That word is "reform." Is there a reformer in all of this? Because they're all talking change but no one's claiming the reform? What's going on Hank?
SHEINKOPF: There is no reform.
DOBBS: We're just going to change for the hell of it.
SHEINKOPF: How much cash do you need for the next -- nothing's going to change so we ain't going to have reform --
LOUIS: When you hear Edwards talk about reform and he's focused on it more than most candidates, it tells you there's some substance there but it doesn't get you the votes you need to win. People are trying to get it back to the mood of the populace rather than the minds of the populace.
DOBBS: Don't you think so, Jonathan?
MARTIN: I think to defend McCain and Romney; I think both would shake things up. There are folks who aren't afraid to break some china. Perhaps nothing drastic, but I think these guys would, given the past five years, reshape the federal government to a certain degree.
DOBBS: I wish I could say, Jonathan, I had one ounce of conviction that you were even remotely correct in that assessment. But I know your heart is pure, and I will dream your dreams. We appreciate it. Jonathan Martin, Politico.com, Errol Louis, New York Daily News, Democratic strategist, Hank Sheinkopf, as always, thank you.
Coming up here next, the results of tonight's poll. Also some of your thoughts on what a real candidate for change just might look like. All of that and more still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: 84 percent of you say you would actively support an independent candidate for president through volunteer work or with a donation, a remarkable response for our poll tonight.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Kat in Rhode Island said, "Lou, I thought that if you're a citizen you have to speak English. I also thought you could only vote if you are a citizen. How is it that people who are voting are not meeting that requirement?" Well, that's one of the things we're going to be looking into for the next couple of months.
And Sandra in South Carolina, "Dear Lou, I am a legal immigrant and I love to watch your show with my husband. Thanks for keeping us informed of what is going on in my new country, the USA." And we thank you for participating and for being a fellow citizen. Don in New Jersey, "Edwards, Obama and Huckabee were all shown on Friday's program claiming to be the candidate for change. They can't be a candidate for change if they are running for the top of the tickets of the two status quo parties. Only an independent or third party candidate can be a candidate for change."
And Patrick in Florida, "Lou, why is it that the candidates talk but say nothing. We need to hear solutions not rhetoric. Don't they realize that people are fed up and that this great country is in trouble? We need a dramatic change. Thanks for a great show."
And Dennis in New Mexico, "Lou, thanks for being there for all of us. You've given us hope when there was none and reminded us of what it means to be an American, including courage, persistence and belief in our principles. I am proud to join you as an independent populist." And we're proud to have you.
If your email is read here, we send you a copy of my new book "Independents' Day: Awakening the American; the Book that Corporate America, the Democratic and Republican Parties Don't Want You to Read."
We thank you for doing so. Thanks for being with us tonight. CNN's coverage of the New Hampshire primary continues now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
