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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Michigan Primary; Oregon Ceases Alien Drivers License Program; Fighting for the Latino Vote
Aired January 15, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf.
Tonight voters are going to the polls in Michigan in a primary election that could shake up the race for the Republican presidential nomination. We'll have complete coverage as Wolf just said of all of that. The latest on the Democratic contest, the fall's choices for voters in this election campaign being offered by the candidates of both parties, much more, all of that straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Tuesday, January 15. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. The first polling places closed in Michigan within the hour. Senator John McCain, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee all fighting to the finish in the first primary contest in a heavily populated state. Romney has spent nearly six times as much money on television advertising as McCain and more than 50 times as much money as Huckabee.
Meanwhile, Democratic front-runners, Senator Barack Obama and Senator Hillary Clinton have declared a truce in their dispute over race and racial politics. We'll have extensive coverage of both contests throughout this broadcast. We begin with Dana Bash tonight who's with the Romney campaign in Southfield, Michigan. Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Lou, Mitt Romney was born and raised here in Michigan and he's been campaigning as a native son and also as a businessman who can and wants to fix Michigan's ailing economy. Talk to any Romney adviser, and they'll tell you, unlike the first big contest states, second is not good enough. He needs a win here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): Mitt Romney knows the stakes in Michigan are enormous, and he's playing the nostalgia card.
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Michigan is going to vote for a Romney again. I'm planning on it.
BASH: Romney's father was a three-term governor, but that was 40 years ago and he left the state as a teenager.
ROMNEY: We've got to sign these homemade signs.
BASH: Still he's hoping for a much-needed Michigan win by making the kind of personal connection he's had trouble finding elsewhere.
ROMNEY: Michigan is going through a one-state recession. How in the world can a federal government sit back and watch a state suffer year after year after year? I grew up in Michigan when Michigan was the pride of America.
BASH: Michigan voters just have to watch TV to see how crucial they are to Romney's candidacy. From January 1st of last year through last week, Romney spent more than $2 million on 2,555 TV spots in Michigan. No one else came close. Chief rival John McCain spent just about $359,000 for only 645 TV spots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And were you planning on supporting Governor Mitt Romney at the caucus?
BASH: That after Romney poured millions into Iowa and New Hampshire only to finish second both times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, Mitt! Let's go Mitt!
BASH: Even supporters like Michigan Congressman Pete Hoekstra (ph) admit to CNN a loss here could be devastating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hard to put a silver lining on if Mitt lost within Republican voters in Michigan. That would be hard to put a silver lining on. This is his home state. You would hope that the home state would rally around the native son.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: You just heard Congressman Hoekstra talk about Republicans. A big part of the Romney campaign's concern up until today has been that Democrats and Independents who don't really have Democrats on the ballot here to vote for this election day will go for John McCain. After all, Independents really helped give John McCain get his victory here eight years ago, but talking to Romney advisers as we get closer to the polls closing, they say they're hearing from some of their campaign officials in the field that turnout appears to be low.
And Lou, they think that is beneficial to them because they think that means Independents and Democrats aren't necessarily voting. We'll see if their confidence really bears out, but there is a lot of confidence, a lot more than we've heard from the Romney campaign this entire election season, at least since the votes have been cast about a month ago. There's definitely a feeling that victory might be in their reach, and that certainly could help Mitt Romney, but it will make this Republican race even more topsy-turvy than it already is -- Lou.
DOBBS: It is little confusing, isn't it, that second place as Mitt Romney has achieved and could achieve tonight would be looked upon as a career ending or at least a bid ending possibility for the candidate. Second place in the Democratic primary doesn't seem to be too bad. Square that up for us if you will. BASH: Well in terms of Michigan, the Democratic primary doesn't really exist here in Michigan as I know you've been reporting. We've been talking about for the past couple of days. Democrats accept really in terms of the major candidates, for Hillary Clinton took their name off of the ballot because they were being penalized by the national party for moving Michigan's primary up.
So in terms of Michigan, you're right. It sort of is an interesting scenario when you talk about the fact that there are a lot of candidates on the ballot, but when you talk about Mitt Romney, Lou, as you know, he has spent so much money in all of these contest states. He likes to talk in Olympic terms. He's talked about the fact that he has had Silvers in the first couple of big contest states. Because he's been making this so personal about him as a native son, they understand that he needs to win here in order to have any kind of chance going forward.
DOBBS: All right, Dana. Thank you very much, Dana Bash from Michigan. We'll have those results tonight. In the Democratic contest Senator Clinton and Senator Obama tonight trying to end their divisive argument over race and civil rights and racial politics, both campaigns apparently trying to refocus their campaigns ahead of the Democratic primary in South Carolina January 26th and the Nevada caucuses January 19th.
Candy Crowley has our report from Las Vegas. Candy, a truce for crying out loud between two leading Democratic candidates on the issue of racial politics? Don't tell me the Democrats are having trouble with an experience and identity in group politics.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And maybe it was inevitable, given that we have here the first woman with a real shot at the White House, the first African-American with a shot at the White House. But it had gotten very tense, as you know Lou, over the past week or so. Yesterday they both called a truce.
I must say they've held to it so far today, but that may be because neither one of them has had a public event as they await tonight's debate here in Las Vegas. Nonetheless, there has been a lot of concern within the party that perhaps this back and forth tension really would hurt the party come November and split it apart. You heard that from all sides, including from Jesse Jackson, an Obama supporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: These team members on the same team competing for who's going to lead the team. The team is destroyed, there's no team to lead and someone like the camaraderie like they taught I hear today from both candidates, but now the supporters of the candidates must see the value in keeping this campaign back on the issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Congressman Jim Clyburn, an African-American from South Carolina, also weighed in on this. He had previously been critical of comments from Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton. He's remained neutral in the race. He today said that in fact he wanted everybody to kind of cool their jets. As I say, Lou, so far so good with the principal. The surrogates, again, are another thing, but it's been pretty quiet today, Lou.
DOBBS: A quiet day in the Democratic race and also a morbid day in the Republican race. The Democrats look like they, the politics, the racial politics, are both petty and unfortunately but the Republicans seem to need some sort of energy, some sort of goose to inject some pulse into their process.
CROWLEY: Absolutely. And it's really been the case from the very beginning. When this race started out in January, you could feel it in the crowds when you went to a Republican event or when you went to a Democratic event. The pulse, the energy, the juice was always in the Democratic events.
You can see that in the fund-raising of these various candidates. The Democratic candidates have far out raised the Republican candidates. Obviously Republicans are having trouble kind of rallying around a particular candidate, and the race has been far more exciting on the Democratic side. So the juice has gone to them so far, Lou.
DOBBS: OK. Well, we've been criticized for talking about momentum and dynasties and charisma and excitement. Now we're going to probably get criticized for "juice", but we can stand the heat, can't we?
CROWLEY: Sorry. Absolutely.
DOBBS: Thanks, Candy. Candy Crowley.
The Clinton and Obama campaigns tonight are making an all-out effort to win the support of Latino voters in Nevada and other states. Both candidates support what they say is a path to legalization for illegal aliens, what others call amnesty. I'm one of those others. Critics say both Clinton and Obama are simply pandering to socio ethnocentric special interests trying to win much-needed votes. Jessica Yellin has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Together...
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From Barack Obama a rallying cry made famous by the late labor activist Caesar Chavez (ph)...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
YELLIN: From Senator Clinton, the human touch at home with Hispanic voters. Hispanics make up 9 percent of eligible voters nationwide but 12 percent here in Nevada. With a race this tight, they could decide who wins the state. ADAM SEGAL, DIR., HISPANIC VOTER PROJECT: If you have to win the state and if this is the state that the Democratic Party set up as the example of the influence of Hispanic voters in the Democratic Party, you have to be able to demonstrate that you can win Hispanic support.
YELLIN: Obama scored a crucial boost when the state's culinary workers union endorsed him. Most of their members are Latino and will be encouraged to caucus for Obama. But Senator Clinton countered announcing the endorsement of Caesar Chavez's (ph) brother, organizer Richard Chavez (ph) and the Latino community has a long history of affection for all things Clinton. Their top concerns are the same kitchen table issues that worry the rest of the nation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're really focused on whether they're going to have a job over the next six months or a year, whether they're going to be able to afford health care and whether the local education system is adequate for them and their family. Certainly the war in Iraq and immigration are also enormous issues, but the Democrats are not really using those issues as a wedge issue in the primary battle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: And, Lou, whoever wins here in Nevada also has bragging rights as we look ahead to primaries in New York, California, and New Jersey, other large states in which the Latino vote could be decisive. Lou?
DOBBS: The Latino vote could be decisive, the Catholic male vote could be decisive, the evangelical vote could be decisive, the black vote could be decisive. I mean my gosh this group and identity politics is really surfacing as a major issue within the Democratic Party. Their leadership in the Democratic Party right now has to be very concerned.
Among those concerns has to be the legal battle in those Democratic caucuses in Nevada, a battle that's apparently a fight between the surrogates for Obama and the Clinton campaigns and the issue of the legality of those people in those caucuses now.
YELLIN: That's right. You're talking about these nine new caucus sites that are taking place at casinos, designed to let mainly casino workers and folks who work along the strip come and participate because it's a Saturday caucus. Now, as you've said, this teachers union has objected to this at the very last minute and said it's illegal. They have filed papers...
DOBBS: On behalf of Senator Clinton. On behalf of Senator Clinton...
YELLIN: Well, they say...
DOBBS: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
YELLIN: They have not -- sorry -- they have not explicitly endorsed Senator Clinton, although some of their leaders do support her, so they take issue with that...
DOBBS: You can give me credit for it. They can take it up with me. The reality is they're acting in behalf of Senator Clinton.
YELLIN: And the Obama supporters, which is the culinary union, say -- essentially they're trying to disenfranchise Obama's voters. Obama and the Democratic Party has a chance to file papers on this tomorrow. The Democrat Party says the caucuses will go ahead as planned. They're pretty confident of that.
DOBBS: And have we learned what they're going to do? Because the culinary workers is made up of -- just about half of it by most estimates those culinary workers are illegal in this country. What have we learned about the precautions that are being taken to make certain that those caucus votes are valid and legal?
YELLIN: I promised you an answer, and I got it. What they will do is at these nine sites, these nine new sites, folks who come there will have to show a I.D, but it's a work I.D., not your driver's license, a badge from your place of employment. And then also sign an affidavit asserting that you are eligible to vote and legal.
It's a felony to wrongly assert that, and it's also a civil crime. And the Democratic Party said they could be charged up to $20,000 for violating it. Of course, the big question, Lou, is who's going to enforce it? It's up to the Democratic Party to check the roll and enforce it.
DOBBS: You know for all of us who have been worrying about e- voting machines, all of those problems, the issue of voter integrity across this country, this is a year in which we're going to see some serious, serious strains I'm sure on the system. What you're about to cover in Las Vegas I think, Jessica, is going to be an early test case. We thank you very much, Jessica Yellin, reporting from Las Vegas.
Coming up here next more on the presidential campaign including a closely watched battle over the role of Independent voters in these primaries. Casey Wian has our report -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the California Republican Party is preventing Independent voters from participating in its presidential primary this year. We'll try to explain why coming up.
DOBBS: OK. Casey, a lot of folks across the country have some explaining to do when it comes to excluding Independents. We look forward to your report.
Also -- the open borders amnesty lobby aggressively fighting one state's efforts to stop crime and to protect national security. We'll have that special report and Governor Bill Richardson has dropped out of the Democratic presidential race. Will he be endorsing another candidate? We'll be talking with Governor Richardson here next. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Let's be honest about this Michigan primary. It's pretty well screwed up. Because Michigan moved this primary ahead, both the Republican and Democratic Parties penalized Michigan voters. In Michigan tonight, the outcome at least for Republicans will hinge on last-minute choices of undecided Democrats and Independents. Independents, in fact, ultimately could determine the outcome of this presidential election. But in California, the Republican Party has decided to block Independents from voting in their primary. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): In California, Independent or declined to state voters make up nearly 20 percent of the electorate, more than doubling since 1992. In this the year of the Independent, non- affiliated voters could determine who wins California's 55 electoral votes, not to mention the White House. So California's Democratic Party is allowing declined to state voters to participate in its primary February 5th, but Republicans are keeping Independents out.
BOB MULHOLLAND, DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGN ADVISER: To have the Independents over for breakfast in the primary, that means they'll be with us for dinner in the general election. They're very important. They're growing. They're 20 percent of the registered voters here. We cannot ignore them, and the Republicans are fools for ignoring them.
WIAN: Republican say they have good reasons for excluding Independents, including recruitment.
RON NEHRING, CALIF. GOP CHAIRMAN: Independent voters understand very often that if you choose not to affiliate with a party you don't get all the benefits of being a member of that party. SO We're encouraging everyone if they like any of the Republican candidates, join the party, register Republican, and participate in nominating the next president of the United States.
WIAN: Political analysts say there's also a desire to keep the Republican Party free of the influence of Independents.
PROF. KAREEM CRAYTON, USC LAW SCHOOL: Party elites and people who are die-hard Republicans in terms of social and economic conservatism, it may be their effort at reasserting authority over who becomes the standard bearer in these nominating primaries.
WIAN: According to a CNN/"Los Angeles Times"/"Politico" poll by Opinion Research Corporation, California's Republican primary is wide open with John McCain holding a statistically insignificant four-point lead over Mitt Romney, but more than 60 percent of those polled might vote for someone else.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton holds a 16-point lead over Barack Obama in California, but that's only among Democrats, not Independents, who could help Obama narrow that gap, Lou. DOBBS: Or not...
WIAN: Or not, absolutely.
DOBBS: What's fun about -- you know, I enjoy the idea that Independents will be punished for not being in those primary elections. That means that those Independent voters would be denied the opportunity to vote for a good Republican like Arnold Schwarzenegger or (INAUDIBLE) leading the Legislature in Sacramento or -- I mean they won't even be held responsible for those two great Americans George W. Bush and John Kerry who squared off in 2004. This is a terrible punishment to exact on voters.
WIAN: It certainly is. Well you know it's interesting you bring up Governor Schwarzenegger, Lou, because that's one of the theories why the Republican Party is doing this. They want traditional, hard- core Republicans to be the ones who decide their nominee, not a middle of the road guy like Governor Schwarzenegger, who is their leading figure right now.
DOBBS: Well you find me a middle of the road candidate right now. This is getting really interesting because it isn't Obama, it isn't Clinton, it sure as heck isn't in point of fact McCain or Romney, so we'll see if the center prevails in this election, ultimately. Thank you very much. Casey Wian from California where the Republicans, a fellow called them fools. My goodness, what tough talk, nasty. Thank you very much, Casey Wian.
Up next here Michigan voters going to the polls on a critical GOP contest. They're all critical, aren't they? We'll see who drops out after this critical primary.
The open borders pro illegal alien lobby fighting one state's efforts to make drivers' licenses secure. Imagine that, the audacity of a state government.
And we'll be talking with New Mexico's Governor Bill Richardson about ending his bid for the White House. What he learned from that race and whether he'll endorse one of these candidates for president. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The polls are still open in Michigan for the primary there. Voters continue to turn out tonight to cast their ballots in the Michigan primary. These are live shots. Romney supporters in I believe this is Southfield, Michigan. Is that correct? And it's a critical contest, of course, for all of the Republican candidates.
Mitt Romney has, as we reported to you, spent six times as much money as any other candidate to support his effort in Michigan. So we'll soon know whether -- at least we'll begin to learn whether or not that expenditure and that investment has worked out for the former governor of Massachusetts.
Well, the state of Oregon won't be issuing drivers' licenses any longer to illegal aliens. As Oregon takes action to makes its licenses more secure, a well-organized, well-funded coalition has formed to protest that responsible, prudent, and intelligent action by the state government. That group, that coalition, well, they say it would make life more difficult for illegal aliens and would make the roads less safe. Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Angry protests in front of Oregon's state Legislature. The message every Oregon driver has the right to take the driving test, be licensed, and assured regardless of legal status. Protesters say depriving a license deprives illegal aliens their livelihood, treating them like terrorists. They reject concerns about national security.
SANTIAGO ESPINOZA, PROTESTOR: When we were struck on September 11, 2001, there was no Maria, Jose, or Guadalupe (ph) on those airplanes.
ROMANS: But the governor's office says tighter emergency rules to take effect February 4th are not designed to penalize illegal immigrants, instead to combat identity fraud and identity theft and to protect national security. Starting next month, any new driver's license will require a valid Social Security number.
Until now, that number was not verified. Or a valid foreign passport and proof of legal status from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Quote, "It is unacceptable for our state to be a magnet for people trying to illegally obtain a driver license or identification card."
The governor says quote, "Criminal organizations both inside and outside Oregon are using Oregon's permissive standards in order to assist persons to illegally obtain driver's licenses and identifications cards."
Some state lawmakers say Oregon state-issued I.D.s are the license of choice for drug traffickers. But church, business, and Latino activists say the state will actually be making the roads less safe by denying drivers' licenses to illegal workers. Many of whom will instead drive to work unlicensed, without taking the driving test and learning the rules of the road.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: The Oregon Transportation Committee meets Thursday to finalize the governor's emergency rule and Oregon lawmakers now have to begin work on legislation to make the governor's executive order law. While Oregon is tightening its rules, at the same time, the Michigan attorney general, he recently made this interesting ruling, Lou.
Quote, "Only a resident of Michigan may be issued a Michigan driver's license. A person who is not a lawful resident of the United States cannot be a resident of this state, Michigan, for purposes of obtaining a driver's license." It goes to the whole core of this debate.
DOBBS: Yeah. Yeah. And the fact of the matter is it has been a contrivance on the part of the court system, a contrivance on the part of the state governments that have permitted these drivers' licenses. Because what the attorney general, his reasoning, is precise and on point. There is no way in which a state government can act to make an illegal person in this country legal.
That is the prevue (ph) of the federal government. And so long as a person is in this country illegally, they cannot -- it is straightforward -- cannot be the beneficiary of residence and citizenship without being here legally.
ROMANS: And the frustration among the people who work in the DMV's in all of these states are that you know they have these people living in their states because of a failure of federal immigration law so it starts to get very circular.
DOBBS: And you know, when people start talking about in the shadows and I -- as we're sitting here watching those people supporting illegal aliens and their drivers' licenses and whatever that Oregon once gave away, you know, doesn't it strike anybody that that isn't in the shadows? I mean, you have illegal aliens in this country demanding the rights, privileges of citizenship.
It is the most, to me, arrogant thing they could possibly do. And fall in line around it. The people in the shadows -- want to talk about people in the shadows? Look at those unemployment statistics for black Americans, for Hispanic Americans, look at those statistics and I'll show you people in the shadows. And to hear that kind of nonsense, rhetoric to support an agenda that is anathetical (ph) to the interest of the nation is just absurd. Anyway, Christine, thank you very much. Christine Romans.
Well coming up here next -- some of our biggest cities have, well they've had a belly full of the financial institutions that created our mortgage and credit market crisis. We'll have a special report from one of those cities tonight.
Also -- the federal government says it will take tough action against criminal illegal aliens serving prison sentences in this country, but is it too little? Is it too late? And what about all those criminal illegal aliens the federal government is pursuing at large in our society?
And I'll be talking with former presidential candidate Governor Bill Richardson. He'll join us here to talk about this election, this campaign, false choices being offered to voters and a host of issues by the candidates and the role of race in this election campaign.
And -- is he going to endorse one of these candidates? We'll find out. We're coming right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: New Mexico's Governor, Bill Richardson, until last week a contender for the democratic presidential nomination, the governor deciding to drop out of the race after a fourth-place finish in New Hampshire. Governor Bill Richardson joins us tonight from Santa Fe. Governor, good to have you with us.
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CNADIDATE: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: A lot of people disappointed, a lot of people who were pleased that you were representing, if you will, Hispanic-Americans in this race. Your thoughts.
RICHARDSON: Well, Lou, I basically ran out of resources. I didn't do well in New Hampshire as I expected to, and then we were heading into the western primaries that had a lot of Hispanic voters, like Nevada coming up Saturday, and then February 5th where you have Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, California. And I ran out of resources. I wanted to stay in, but I felt I got the issues that I wanted to raise, the middle class issues, health care issues relating to the war. So I felt I made a contribution. I ran -- I worked very hard.
DOBBS: Well, you did that, and I just have to wonder, as we're sitting here watching, Senator Obama and Senator Clinton with petty racial politics, both of them pandering as overtly as one could imagine any candidate pandering to Hispanic workers, whether it be the culinary workers in Las Vegas or in Los Angeles in the case of Senator Clinton, how do you react to that?
RICHARDSON: Of well, first, I'm disappointed that they've gotten into this pettiness. I've always said in the campaign, stay positive on the issues. Secondly, you know, it's dangerous to try to appeal to minorities on the basis of what you think. For instance, Hispanics, the perception is that Hispanics only care about immigration, that they only care about civil rights, that they care about affirmative action. That's just not the case, Lou. You know, Hispanics care about the war, entrepreneurship, health care, education, mainstream issues like anybody else.
DOBBS: Wait a minute. You mean Hispanics are just Americans like everybody else?
RICHARDSON: Yes, they are.
DOBBS: Amazing!
RICHARDSON: Then you get these political candidates and these parties, national parties, including mine, too, that try to appeal to Hispanics, you know, get the mariachis out - get the ...
DOBBS: Or start talking about the guacamole and chips as Senator Clinton did. That was, I thought, ethnic sensitivity in the extreme.
RICHARDSON: I think the way to appeal to Hispanics is talk to them about issues that are important to the American people. They're like anybody else, and I try to convey that. Again, obviously, this race coming up, they're not listening to my advice, not that it matters anymore.
DOBBS: They're going to, I'm sure, have an opportunity, all of us will have an opportunity, for the benefit of both your counsel and your experience to that end. Are you going to be recommending -- are you going to endorse one of these candidates?
RICHARDSON: Well, I'm going to make that decision after the Nevada caucuses, which are this Saturday. If I did, I would do it before February the 5th that has all of those big Super Tuesday Hispanic primaries as I call them, Arizona, California, Colorado, and New Mexico.
But I might not, Lou. I'm being a typical politician. I don't know if I will. I'm concentrating on my legislature right now, but I'm going to see what happens in Nevada.
I've got a lot of my friends calling me, asking me for recommendations. Senator Clinton has called, President Clinton, Obama. Everyone is calling. We'll see. You know, I just -- I never felt, Lou, that endorsements meant much from one politician to another. I really don't. You know, you get one day's story and I don't think it makes much differences how the candidate connects with the voter.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Governor Bill Richardson, glad to have you here. We appreciate it as always.
RICHARDSON: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Talk to you soon.
In our poll tonight, the question is, do you believe that political leaders from both major parties are presenting voters with false choices that further polarize this nation instead of offering practical solutions to the challenges facing the middle class? Yes or no? Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here upcoming.
Next, the federal government wants to deport alien illegals in U.S. prisons instead of releasing them on U.S. streets. Now there's an interesting idea. We'll have the report.
And the leading GOP candidates fighting for victory in Michigan, three of the nation's leading talk show hosts join me to talk about that and more.
And a truce between the Obama and Clinton campaigns over the issue of race? We'll have more on racial politics and just plain silly pettiness in this campaign here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Among the top issues for voters in Michigan as throughout the nation, illegal immigration. Immigrations and custom enforcement today, taking steps to empty our jails of some 200,000 illegal alien convicts and to send them home. But as Kitty Pilgrim now reports, this may be only a fraction of the illegal aliens in this country's prisons.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A typical prison population. Which ones are illegal aliens? The answer is, federal officials don't know how many illegal aliens are in U.S. prisons. But now I.C.E. is boosting efforts to try to find out and is in process of identifying and start deportation proceedings on 200,000 inmates, both illegal aliens and immigrants who lost their legal status because they committed a crime.
JULIE MYERS, IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Well, we're expanding our program. We're prioritizing the high-risk institutions and Congress gave us $200 million to make sure that we're identifying aliens in all facilities.
PILGRIM: The object is to deport illegals directly from the hundreds of state and federal facilities after they serve their prison sentence rather than the old way of releasing them onto the streets and then starting deportation hearings. The so-called criminal alien program is gaining ground.
In fiscal 2006, I.C.E. filed charges against 57,000 illegals to start the deportation process. That climbed to 164,000 in 2007 and an estimated 200,000 in fiscal 2008.
Some say more resources are needed to undertake this properly.
MICHAEL CUTLER, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: We don't have the tools to properly identify many of these criminal aliens, I suspect. Not all of them are going to jump up and be honest with you and tell you that they're here illegal or deportable aliens.
PILGRIM: Once the removable process is started, many won't be deported for years, but at least prison authorities will know not to release them back into society.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: I.C.E. is in the process of defining its specific plan to put details before congress in March, and now that I.C.E. is looking at ways to identify criminal illegal aliens that have blended into the general prison population. Lou, this is not an easy issue.
DOBBS: Well, it's got to be easier than the federal government is making it. I mean, this is idiotic. You're talking about a half million people just over the course of the past few years.
PILGRIM: That's right.
DOBBS: Criminal illegal aliens, and they've just been dumping them back into the general population.
PILGRIM: They just let them go and then start deportation proceedings. DOBBS: It's just mind-boggling. Thank god they're doing this. Don't misunderstand me. Good going Julie Myers. Good going, I.C.E. but what in the world took so long to get to this point? It's frightening how we got to this position.
PILGRIM: When you look into it, you can't imagine why they didn't start this program sooner.
DOBBS: Yeah. Well, you've heard so much about government I can't imagine. No one at home can imagine it either. Nor you, Kitty. Thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
A reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Do you believe that political leaders from both major parties are presenting voters with false choices that further polarize this nation instead of offering practical solutions to the challenges facing the middle class? Yes or no, cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results upcoming.
Next, Michigan voters still voting in this critical contest for republican candidates. What will happen with those democrats and will independent voters be a deciding factor? I'll be talking with three of the country's best radio talk show hosts next.
Senators Clinton and Obama call a truce in their bitter, petty war of words over race.
And two major cities suing mortgage lenders over the country's housing crisis. We'll have that and a great deal more. We're coming right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of my favorite radio talk show hosts. In Washington, D.C., Joe Madison, WOL Radio and XM Radio. Good to see you, Joe, again. In Chicago, Steve Cochran, WGN Radio, this segment also being simulcast over WGN. I'm sure Steve has told the stations along the line to stand by.
STEVE COCHRAN, WGN RADIO: I have, actually, Lou, especially after the big fight we had last time which appeared in the tabloids, as you know. I'm glad we made up.
DOBBS: Me, too. Here in New York, Mark Simone of WABC Radio. Mark, good to see you.
MARK SIMONE, WABC RADIO: Great to be here.
DOBBS: Well, what in the world is going on? We're sitting here watching a race today in Michigan in which the democrats don't get a vote and the republicans get a half a vote because they go into for the delegates. I mean what's going on, Joe?
JOE MADISON, WOL WASHINGTON DC: Well, I think the Democratic Party just simply blew it. I mean, here you have a state that really should be the focal point of this country. I lived in Michigan for 20 years, started my radio career there. And I'm here to tell you when America catches a cold, Michigan has pneumonia. Those are some real issues that democrats just blew it. And I don't think this uncommitted campaign is going to work. So what did they do? They stripped Michigan of their delegate so it's going to be an interesting fight at the democratic convention to seat those delegates.
DOBBS: Why would the state, Steve Cochran, with the highest unemployment rate, the greatest pain in the nation of any state, why would they need to have, say, political representation anyway?
COCHRAN: Well, that's exactly right because, you know, maybe it brings in a few more advertising dollars and there's a few more free martini lunches for our broadcast salesmen folks. You're right. It's not a good thing for the people of the state. A fair race from both sides is what we really need. Lou, I have in front of me the latest polling data.
DOBBS: Excellent.
COCHRAN: Apparently Walter Mondale is leading in Michigan, but we won't know for another hour if this will hold up.
MADISON: It's a state that gave you George Wallace and Jesse Jackson so I'm not surprised in two different elections so I'm not surprised.
DOBBS: We're going to have to caucus around that issue.
Mark ...
SIMONE: I'm actually from Michigan.
DOBBS: The Michigan connections, you guys are almost native sons like Mitt Romney.
COCHRAN: I'm next door.
MADISON: Listen to the different neighborhoods.
SIMONE: We all remember George Romney not only as a great governor, three terms but he was a guy, he was the Lee Iacocca of the '50s. He turned around a broken down car company, American Motors, and made it great again. And that's what you need, I think a turnaround artist of.
DOBBS: I have, by the way, an American Motors car.
SIMONE: You still do? You've still got that Wrangler?
DOBBS: No. My point being, that company didn't make it.
SIMONE: But he did get himself on the cover of "Time" magazine as the great turnaround artist.
DOBBS: I've got to give full disclosure. I do drive a '95 Chevrolet pickup. So I've got a connection to Michigan as well.
SIMONE: You know the state capitol. It's called the George W. Romney building. That name means a lot.
DOBBS: This is scary to think that these would even be considerations in deciding a vote for a candidate.
Let's turn to the issue of racial politics, whatever, group, identity politics. Mark, can we make a case that group and identity politics are blowing up in the faces of the Democratic Party right now?
SIMONE: Yeah. I mean this whole thing is a mess. This back and forth between Hillary and Obama hurts both of them. If she wins, I know the Clinton machine likes to use that scorched earth approach to their opponents, but it won't look good.
DOBBS: Unlike the other political camps who like to play patty- cake when it comes to politics. Come on. Give me a break.
SIMONE: There's a difference between patty-cake and scorched earth. Let me bring up something. If there's something vaguely unconstitutional about the Clintons being back in the white house, I know they said you can't get elected to more than two terms in the white house, but do you think in their hearts they meant you can't serve as the third term in the white house, even as a co-president or first gentleman.
DOBBS: I'm going to have to wok that one through.
COCHRAN: The constitutional scholars are on line three. You know what though? You know Lou I think the biggest problem is we in the media need to take a little responsibility for the impact and the reach that we have and this race story that blew up this week. Look, you can accuse the Clintons of a lot of things and a lot of things that ought to be on cable TV, frankly, but racism I don't think is one of them.
DOBBS: Bringing cable television into this is just unfair.
COCHRAN: Not this cable. The other cable.
DOBBS: I understand.
COCHRAN: You understand what I'm saying. My point, Lou, real quickly, because we're not talking -- it's like Romney having to win tonight. Romney doesn't have to win tonight. He has to win tonight if we get on the air and say, it's over and we need to take a little responsibility for declaring people dead before, in fact, their candidacies are. It's not fair to the voters.
SIMONE: Well let's point out one thing. Romney, even with his second-place finishes, is technically in first place right now. He has the most delegates of any candidates.
MADISON: Do you guys want to hear about the black guy on the panel about the race issue?
DOBBS: No, Joe. I think that's how this trouble got started. MADISON: Oh, blame me, huh?
DOBBS: Charlie Rangel said it was the black guy who started it.
MADISON: Look, first of all, I love Charlie Rangel, he'll say anything.
DOBBS: Whoa! You're talking about my friend Charlie.
MADISON: He's my buddy. I love him! But look, bottom line is this, they're kitchen table issues and I heard the governor of New Mexico make the point about pandering to Hispanics. These guys need to shut up, tell their surrogates to keep quiet. I'm telling you, come on Martin Luther King Day, put all of this foolishness aside of who Johnson was or wasn't, who King was or wasn't, and deal with foreclosure, underemployment, unemployment.
COCHRAN: Amen.
MADISON: We have real serious issues that transcend race, and they can score big points because in politics, let's be candid, there are no permanent friends, there are no permanent enemies. There's only what? Permanent interests.
DOBBS: Well, I'm a little more sentimental than you are, Joe, for crying out loud. But, for example, you jumped all over my friend Bob Johnson. I happen to like Bob.
MADISON: Well, it wasn't personal, but Bob Johnson --
DOBBS: Well, you sure --
MADISON: Bob Johnson --
DOBBS: Not being personal is how we got here.
MADISON: Bob Johnson, my god, we argue and discuss misogynistic lyrics, gangster rap, these videos. They've done more to create an image of young African-Americans that is just terrible. And for him to do that to Obama was totally unnecessary. He can endorse Hillary Clinton without tearing down Obama. Obama is King's dream.
DOBBS: Who are you supporting?
MADISON: Neither of them. None of them at this point in time.
DOBBS: You just called Obama's King's dream. That's pretty derogatory.
MADISON: But I mean in what he's accomplished, in terms of his education. I would rather have young African-American men involved in politics, involved in our community, than selling dope, drugs, and being a gangster.
SIMONE: Absolutely.
MADISON: That's what I was talking about. I mean --
DOBBS: We should explain, Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television --
MADISON: Which was supposed to be Black Education Television, but it didn't turn out that way, did it?
SIMONE: Well, that's quite a choice, though, to decide whether your kid should go into crime or politics. I don't know which is worse.
MADISON: That's a point.
DOBBS: You've got to look to the distinction.
All right. Well, you know, Joe, you're just rolling over me on that thing.
MADISON: Oh, I'm sorry, Lou.
DOBBS: Glad you didn't take it personally from Bob Johnson, for crying out loud.
MADISON: It's not personal. I wish he'd give me a loan. But the bottom line is, you can endorse -- look, Oprah endorsed Obama and didn't cut Hillary down. Magic Johnson endorsed Hillary and didn't cut Obama down.
SIMONE: Don't single out Bob Johnson. You have Shaheen in New Hampshire. You've got Charlie Rangel. All these Clinton surrogates, I'm sure it's just a massive coincidence but it's all of them.
DOBBS: You're such cynics and skeptics. Steve Cochran, you have the last word tonight if you can get a word in.
COCHRAN: Well I would just say from one of the other white guys here, I was just going to say that we're kind of making the same mistake. It has to be addressed, but just this issue in discussing how ridiculous it is to discuss the race issue when it was brought up on such a ridiculous point takes time away from talking about the stuff that really matters that was mentioned, including inner city schools and education and all the stuff voters ought to be concerned with. On behalf of white people, I'll shut up now.
DOBBS: All white people? Or just some of them?
COCHRAN: Just the ones that are losing their hair.
SIMONE: That's harsh.
MADISON: That transcends race.
DOBBS: Gentlemen, as always, it is great to have you here. Three of my favorite people as well as three of the country's best radio talk show hosts. Thank you, Mark, Joe, Steve. Coming up next, one American city pointing a finger on the foreclosure crisis suing a major lender. We'll have that story. Stay with us. Please stay with us. At the top of the hour, a special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, Independents Day Awakening the American Spirit. We're going to take a look at what's going on in this country politically, for real.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Cities across the country are struggling to deal with the impact of our mortgage and credit market crisisThe mayor of Baltimore, so angered by the wave of foreclosures in her city, that she's suing Wells Fargo Bank, the city accusing Wells Fargo to steering black home buyers into high cost sub prime mortgages they simply couldn't afford. Louise Schiavone has a special report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Baltimore, Maryland, where the mayor says as many as 3,000 homeowners are facing foreclosure and thousands more could follow. The city is suing Wells Fargo Bank for predatory lending.
MAYOR SHEILA DIXON (D), BALTIMORE, MARYLAND: We're asking the courts to have Wells Fargo to stop this practice. We're also asking them to reimburse the city of Baltimore.
SCHIAVONE: Civil rights lawyer John Relman has taken the city's case.
JOHN RELMAN, ATTORNEY: They didn't really look at these folks and figure out, what can people afford or not afford. There was a rush to make money.
SCHIAVONE: Wells Fargo rejects the city's charges stating, in part "Wells Fargo is fully committed to fair and responsible lending and servicing. We do not tolerate misleading or fraudulent lending practices. Race is not a factor in our lending. We do not target communities with sub prime loans."
Baltimore's housing commissioner is perplexed by what he says is a sharp divide in lending practices between two architecturally similar middle class neighborhoods, one minority, the other not.
PAUL GRAZIANO, BALTIMORE HOUSING COMMISSIONER: We're seeing a foreclosure rate that is four times as high in the predominantly African-American communities as it is in the predominantly white communities.
SCHIAVONE: This predominantly minority neighborhood was well on the way to renovation, but stopped in its tracks by the sub prime meltdown with more than 50 foreclosures in the last year and a half.
As of last June, across the nation, more than a million mortgages were in default or foreclosure. People in the industry say there's plenty of blame to go around. JIM HANSON, PRES. FIREMAN'S HOME MORTGAGE: It's the borrowers. Again, the appraisers, the real estate agents, the government. It just -- things were going well so no one was really asking any questions.
SCHIAVONE: Meanwhile, Baltimore's approach is drawing interest from cities across the country with Cleveland now suing 21 investment banks for initiating irresponsible and increasingly failed loans. Louise Schiavone for CNN, Baltimore.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And the city estimates that the mortgage interest rates of about 4,300 Baltimore homeowners will be rising this year. An additional 2,000 homeowners face increases next year.
We'll be back at the top of the hour with a special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, INDEPENDENTS DAY AWAKENING THE AMERICAN SPIRIT. But first, the results of our poll and more of your thoughts. Now those results. 96 percent of you say the political leaders in both political parties are presenting voters will false choices that further polarize the nation instead of offering practical solutions to challenges facing the middle class.
Please stay with us for a CNN special report, Independents Day, Awakening the American Spirit up next.
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