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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Senator Obama Back on Track; Should Senator Clinton Call it Quits?; New McCain ad Expresses Experience and Courage; Violence in Basra; Deporting Criminal Illegal Aliens
Aired March 28, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf.
Tonight Senator Obama standing by his controversial pastor, but the senator now says he would have left the church if Pastor Wright hadn't retired.
Also the federal government finally acknowledging the scale of illegal immigration in this country and the number of illegal aliens in our prisons.
And one leading CEO is speaking out about a crisis all but ignored by our elected officials and confronting the crisis in our public school system. We'll have his story and we will give him a salute on this broadcast tonight; all of that, all the day's news, much more straight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Friday, March 28. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. Senator Barack Obama today tried to move past the controversy over his relationship with Pastor Jeremiah Wright. Obama still says he stands behind his former pastor but now says he would have left that church if Wright hadn't retired and new calls today for Senator Clinton to drop out. Some leading supporters of Senator Obama say that an Obama candidacy is a foregone conclusion.
We'll have extensive coverage tonight and we begin with Suzanne Malveaux on the campaign trail in Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Lou, this really is a new phase of Barack Obama's campaign (INAUDIBLE) those big rallies kind of like those rock concerts, but now it is more about the small listening sessions.
It's a model that worked for Hillary Clinton in her bid for the Senate. And it's really a chance for Pennsylvania voters to get to know Barack Obama in a much more intimate way in these critical weeks leading up to the Pennsylvania primaries.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Barack Obama kicked off his six-day bus tour across Pennsylvania with a clear message. He is moving forward. SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can't wait to fix our schools. We can't wait to fix our health care system. We can't wait to bring this war in Iraq to an end. We cannot wait. That's why I'm running for president of the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
MALVEAUX: No more talk of his controversial pastor, and relatively routine criticism of Senator Clinton.
OBAMA: She was a friend of mine before this campaign started, she will be a friend after this campaign is over.
MALVEAUX: He is back to his original stump speech saving his fire power for Vice President Cheney, Republican presumptive nominee John McCain and their pals.
OBAMA: The era of "Scooter" Libby justice and brownie incompetence and Katrina and warrantless wiretaps and Karl Rove politics, those days will finally be over. We can put them aside.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: John McCain is a great American and a decent man but he basically wants to run for George Bush's third term.
MALVEAUX: Obama picked up a key endorsement, Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania.
SEN. BOB CASEY (D), PENNSYLVANIA: He will fight for us here in Pennsylvania.
(APPLAUSE)
MALVEAUX: Casey's important for Obama because he's popular among white working class and Catholic voters, groups who intended to vote for Clinton in earlier primaries. Polls show Clinton is leading in Pennsylvania. She's been campaigning with high-powered endorsers including the state's governor, Philadelphia's mayor and anti-war Congressman John Murtha, but the road to the nomination may well go beyond Pennsylvania's April 22 primary.
OBAMA: I think there are some people who felt like, god, when is this thing going to be over? It's like a good movie that lasted about half an hour too long. You know?
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Sort of -- but, but the truth is that I think this has been a great campaign.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And Lou, it is probably going to be a long campaign, as well. One of the things that Barack Obama did touch on that really resonates with voters here and that is about the Iraq war, ending the Iraq war.
The people here in Greensburg, Pennsylvania, they know a war very well. It was their Army Reserve unit from here that suffered the worst casualty -- single-day casualty in "Desert Storm". It was their unit that was attacked in Saudi Arabia, the U.S. barracks back in 1991, a lot of people responding to that anti-war message here -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well just a few questions, if I may, Suzanne. So we're reporting here tonight that Obama's strategy now is to have smaller crowds other than larger?
MALVEAUX: Well, it's one of the things that he is doing, yes. Rather than those kind of big rallies, they're almost like rock concert rallies where there was a lot of music, a lot of cheering, a lot of excitement, what he is doing is he's answering peoples' questions at the town hall meeting and some of them are just really kind of much more quiet, more intimate, smaller settings like what we see Clinton doing a lot of times.
DOBBS: And to be definitive on the issue of the idea of withdrawing our troops from Iraq, what percentage of the troops will be removed from Iraq over what period of time?
MALVEAUX: Well, he hasn't even outlined what percentage over what period of time. He's been kind of vague, but he has said immediately when he becomes president, if he does, that he plans to start taking troops out. We've heard Clinton's plan the first three months or so that -- or 60 days -- that she's going to start. It's very similar to Clinton's plan but they haven't been definitive in terms of what the percentage is over a certain period of time.
DOBBS: And yet he says this is a movie that has lasted about a half hour too long and we don't have specifics on withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. How could that possibly be with all of the press attention that these two candidates receiving on the Democratic side?
MALVEAUX: You know, I think what you're hearing is really kind of a sentiment that's coming even perhaps from some Democrats who are starting to look at Hillary Clinton and say, perhaps she should bow out of this. That he has the numbers in terms of delegates and support to essentially get the nomination.
There are a lot of people who say look this race isn't over until all the votes are in, all the states that participated, so that's not necessarily going to happen. Perhaps they'd like to wrap it up a little bit sooner, Lou.
DOBBS: I'm sure that Senator Obama would, but by my count, everyone who's called for Senator Hillary Clinton to withdraw from the race and she's only just about by, whichever count you use, about 150 delegates behind Obama, every Democrat who's called upon Senator Clinton to leave is an Obama supporter. Is there one I've missed?
MALVEAUX: I don't think so, Lou. I think you're absolutely right on that one. There's clearly a sense that there are folks in the Obama camp who'd like to get this done, wrapped up quickly because they believe that he'll get the nomination. There are people in the Clinton camp who says let this thing play out, perhaps there's another way.
DOBBS: You know it's kind of exciting for me as an Independent to see one of the political parties suggest that democracy might actually work and we can see all of the people vote over the next 10 states. It's going to be kind of exciting. Thank you very much, Suzanne Malveaux.
Senator Obama today again stood by his relationship with his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright appearing on ABC television. The senator distanced himself again from the pastor's remarks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Had the reverend not retired, and had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws, then I wouldn't have felt comfortable staying there at the church.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, also with some thoughts on race in this country. The secretary of state told "The Washington Times" that blacks were denied equal opportunity because of lingering racial hang-ups in this country, calling it a birth defect from the nation's very founding.
Rice said, "That particular birth defect makes it hard for us to confront, hard for us to talk about it, and hard for us to realize that it has continuing relevance for who we are today." That is her view.
On this broadcast, we don't have any difficulty talking about race and we haven't encountered any difficulty on the issue of race from any quarter in this society, but that's our experience.
First, the intense race between Senator Clinton and Obama today, it is leaving the Democratic Party without question bitterly divided. Party leaders are now concerned that a disaster could await the party in November's General Election and the party leaders are now pressing to bring the primary season to a quick end. Who needs all those cumbersome votes?
Jessica Yellin has our report from the campaign trail in Philadelphia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In case you had any doubt...
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are some people who are saying, you know, we really ought to end this primary. We just ought to shut it down and --
(INAUDIBLE)
YELLIN: She is not going anywhere or as the other Clinton puts it...
WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think any of these people ought to be asked to resign. Let's just saddle up and have an argument. What's the matter with that?
YELLIN: Plenty. At least that's according to a growing number of party elites like DNC Chair Howard Dean who worries an endless primary will demoralize the Democrats.
HOWARD DEAN, DNC CHAIRMAN: We have two great candidates. We need to focus on the issues here. We need the supporters to stop taking positions that are unreasonable and we need to stay on the positive road talking about our strengths and the Republican weaknesses.
YELLIN: Others superdelegates are now going further: Senator Patrick Leahy today.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: But as long as there are two candidates fighting for the nomination when it's obvious which one is going to win, all that does is to help the other party's nominee.
YELLIN: Senator Chris Dodd says he believes it's a foregone conclusion that Barack Obama will be the nominee. But surprise, both men are backing Barack Obama. The Clintonites insist Obama's backers are behind all this talk of ending the primary and Senator Clinton is using this to raise money.
In a letter to supporters this morning, she writes "Those anxious to force us to the sidelines aren't doing it because they think we're going to lose. They know we're in a position to win." And in Indiana today...
H. CLINTON: I know a little bit about comebacks. You know, I know what it's like to be counted down and counted out. But I also know that there isn't anything that will keep us down if we're determined to get up and fight on!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: And Lou, Senator Clinton supporters point to the enthusiasm for her candidacy right here in the state I'm in, Pennsylvania, as all the proof they need that this race should go on -- Lou.
DOBBS: Let me ask you something. And I inquired of with Suzanne Malveaux with Senator Obama. She reported that Senator Obama's strategy in Pennsylvania is to appeal to smaller rather than larger. Is it Senator Clinton's strategy to also appeal to smaller crowds rather than larger in Pennsylvania? YELLIN: She's been attracting some moderate sized crowds. I'm splitting the difference, but smaller than we have seen at some venues like in Texas, but larger than venues we saw in Iowa. Her strategy here is to surround herself with all these very powerful politicians who've endorsed her and ride the wave of popularity she is already experiencing.
She thinks she's going to win this state. She just wants to win it by a lot. Lou?
DOBBS: Jessica Yellin, thank you very much reporting from Philadelphia.
As the Democrats struggle to choose a candidate to be their nominee, Senator John McCain launches his first General Election campaign ad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As he walked the walk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Lieutenant commander in the Navy and (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 624787.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John McCain, the American president Americans have been waiting for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The McCain campaign says this new ad will show voters the senator is the candidate with experience to lead the nation in time of war. In the Iraq war, one of our soldiers today was killed. Thirty- two of our troops have now been killed by insurgents this month; 4,005 of our troops killed since the war began; 29,496 of our troops have been wounded; 13,189 of them seriously.
President Bush today declared the latest outbreak of violence in Iraq is a defining moment. The president also admitted the fighting could influence the future troop withdrawal plans. The Iraqi army is now struggling to contain violence in the southern city of Basra and today called on the U.S. Air Force for air support.
Barbara Starr reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CNN has learned the most closely held U.S. military intelligence analysis of the fighting in Basra shows Iraqi security forces now control only about a fourth of the city. Officials in the U.S. and Iraq confirm it's not going as the U.S. had hoped.
While Iraqi army units are fighting, Iraqi police in the city are deeply infiltrated by members of Shia militia groups. One U.S. military officer telling CNN this is going to go on for a while. President Bush was questioned about what the latest fighting means for planned U.S. troop withdrawals.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Have the conditions changed such that you believe your commander's going to make a different recommendation than he might have two days ago? And I can't answer that question. I can only tell you what I'm going to do after we get back from NATO.
STARR: In Basra, the U.S. says Shia militia forces control a wide swath of the city's southeastern sector including areas close to the airport where British forces are located. U.S. war planes bombed targets in the city.
VOICE OF MAJ. TOM HOLLOWAY, U.K. MILITARY SPOKESMAN: First one was a building which was -- had a large amount of militia troops inside and on it and around it. The second strike was on an enemy mortar team.
STARR: Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki now in a fight for political survival against Muqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi army is offering more deals extending to April 8 a "guns for cash" program that was to have expired today. U.S. troops are also trying to avoid large scale movements into Baghdad's Sadr City where Shia militia men continue firing rockets at Baghdad's international zone. The U.S. says the rockets are Iranian made and they are pressing Iraqi forces to destroy those launchers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Senior U.S. officials tell CNN the Bush administration didn't know that Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was going to personally launch this campaign in Basra this week. The concern now, Maliki has staked his political life on confronting the Shia militias. If he can't win, the question is, will U.S. troops have to bail him out. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you, very much, Barbara; Barbara Starr from the Pentagon.
Up next, we'll have much more on the campaign trail. Three of the nation's leading political analysts join us.
And blunt talk from a corporate CEO on the readiness of America's workforce. Imagine that, an individual CEO speaking out without the help of the Chamber of Commerce or the business roundtable.
Christine Romans will have our report -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, even though there are more than seven million unemployed in this country, AT&T says it's having trouble finding qualified workers for about 3,600 call center jobs. We'll have that story.
DOBBS: And we'll help AT&T out. Christine, we look forward to the report. And the federal government acknowledging finally how many deportable criminals there are in our nation's prisons. We'll have that report.
And middle class budgets already stretched now being hit with soaring food prices, increases that show no signs of abating. We'll have that report, a great deal more.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Department of Homeland Security now says hundreds of thousands of criminal, legal and illegal aliens behind bars as a result of a federal crack down. Immigration and Customs Enforcement is trying to improve efforts to quickly remove those criminals from the country. We also call that deport them, but critics in Congress are, well they're criticizing the idea.
Louise Schiavone has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement has unveiled a sophisticated plan designed to identify and deport offenders. It would involve linking federal and local law enforcement databases but already ICE finds Congress wincing at the cost.
JULIE MYERS, ICE: This is something we need to do. We need to do it right. We will have to hire more immigration enforcement agents who work in the jails, as well as more deportation officers, more individuals to help fly on the planes and folks throughout the entire immigration removal system.
SCHIAVONE: In a response to the ICE plan, House Homeland Security Subcommittee Chairman David Price (ph) asked specifically about the anticipated two to $3.5 million yearly cost of getting criminal aliens out of the country asking, quote, "why this two to four-fold increase in effort would lead to exponential cost growth", end quote.
ICE says that Congress has underestimated the cost of the process from beginning to end. Experts say that getting Congress to spend the money required especially in this political year will be a challenge.
JAN TING, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW: Whether we have the resources and the personnel to do it, which is a function of, frankly, political will, I don't hear a whole lot of political candidates in this election cycle talking about the importance of immigration law enforcement right now. I think political candidates don't really like to talk about tough issues, which there isn't a good sound bite available.
SCHIAVONE: Speaking with reporters, Myers stated flatly the program could not be a success without political support. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lou, the dimensions of the challenge and the first ever federal estimate of its kind, the office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement believes that up to 450,000 criminal aliens, both legal and illegal, will be behind bars in the U.S. and in queue for deportation at any one time this year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Why do we say legal and illegal? Shouldn't they be talking about illegal aliens?
SCHIAVONE: This is the interesting thing about it. You can have a green card, you can be in legal status, strictly speaking, but if you are guilty of some violent crime, you are eligible for deportation.
DOBBS: I think the point I would really like to make there is the people who run our prison system don't make a distinction between illegal and legal immigrants, do they?
SCHIAVONE: This is the problem. They are trying to get the prisons across the country to identify who they have in custody. And what their status is because --
DOBBS: Politically correct idiots don't have the sense to do that. And until they do acquire that, it's going to be a very costly process and one that probably deserves the criticism that's being heaped upon it. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement looking for political support, they can't even get the support of the leadership of their own department.
That is the Department of Homeland Security. This is one mindless government in operation here on this issue and a host of others, obviously. But I mean, we are asking people to do things whether it's the border patrol, whether it's ICE., I mean it is ridiculous the position we're putting those law enforcement agents in. Louise, thank you very much. Louise Schiavone.
The failure of Congress to crack down on illegal immigration and this president has left, of course, local authorities with no choice but to take action on their own. Officials in Rhode Island and New York tonight are doing what Congress would not do, enforcing immigration laws.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The governor of Rhode Island is taking on illegal immigration. Thursday, he signed an executive order requiring state agencies and companies doing business with the state to verify the legal status of their employees. The order also mandates that the Rhode Island state police, prison and parole officials move to identify illegal aliens in their jails and turn them over to federal authorities. In Suffern, New York, the mayor has announced that he will seek the same authority to identify illegal aliens among criminal suspects in his jails, turning those identified over to federal authorities. That authority is known as 287-G (ph).
MAYOR JOHN KEEGAN, SUFFERN, NEW YORK: We're not doing this politically, for any political reason. We're doing this to have a tool for our police force to use so that being a pro-active police force so that they can keep the community safer.
TUCKER: Advocates for illegal aliens are not happy about the mayor's decision. At a town meeting Thursday night, the mayor explained it's not his intention to deport every illegal alien in Suffern, only those who commit serious crimes. The police chief agrees.
CHIEF CLARKE OSBORN, SUFFERN POLICE DEPARTMENT: The only difference is we now have another tool on our belts to go out there and get rid of the ones that are not only victimizing the legal residents but they're also victimizing the illegals, as well.
TUCKER: The next step is for Suffern to formerly apply for 287-G (ph) authority.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: All right, should approval be granted, they will be the first community in New York State to be trained, though the mayor says he doesn't expect that to happen until maybe September. Those officers would then join the more than 660 other local law enforcement officers who have been trained in immigration enforcement under 287-G across the country, Lou.
DOBBS: Governor Carciera (ph) deserves great commendation to start doing something about an issue that's going to plague his state irrespective of what anyone says. I mean they have a crisis to deal with.
TUCKER: They do, indeed. And in fact, Lou, he did it by signing an executive order.
DOBBS: Right, an executive order that a lot of governors don't have the guts to sign, although in all fairness, we are starting to see a lot of states...
TUCKER: We are.
DOBBS: ... take action, a lot of communities. Leaving most of the -- well, the spineless folks who sit in the United States' Senate kind of wondering what's happening in the country around them. I think it's going to be fascinating and this president -- good lord --
TUCKER: Well it's interesting. What's happening at the local level, Lou, is they're doing something and they're doing it in a tougher fashion than discussed in Washington which is comprehensive immigration reform. DOBBS: I have to tell you these little silly people sitting in the United States' Senate and that silly fellow sitting in the White House, talking about stuff as if it had no impact whatsoever on real people every day citizens to whom they have a responsibility. I mean, it is disgusting.
At some point this is going to have to be resolved. And it's not going to be resolved by this nonsense from Obama and Clinton on comprehensive immigration reform. It's nice to hear Senator McCain say he's gotten the message, so we'll see. You take him at his word. Thank you, Bill Tucker.
Coming up here next, why prices on just about everything from bread to milk are skyrocketing, that's all the middle class needed. We'll also be taking a look at the administration policies that are leading to that impact.
And we'll be introducing you to an American chief executive officer who can't find enough American workers sufficiently educated to fill the jobs that he has available. We're going to help everybody out on this one and I have to tell you, I'm so excited to be talking about a CEO in this country who does have the character, the guts, the courage and the passion to actually stand up away from the skirts of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce or the business roundtable.
He is actually standing up on his own and expressing himself. America lives. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: More trouble for our middle class, our struggling middle class. Food prices are soaring. A report out today from the U.S. Department of Agriculture showing higher prices in the month of March for wheat, for corn, for lettuce, eggs, the higher cost of food along with a higher cost of gasoline and home heating oil stretching monthly budgets to the limit.
And as Kitty Pilgrim now reports, there is no relief in sight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It has been a steady, relentless nickel and dime budget erosion, but it adds up and there's no relief. In the last three years, the government says a loaf of white bread is up 34 percent from 98 cents to $1.32. Eggs up 68 percent from $1.28 to $2.16. Whole fortified milk up 21 percent from $3.17 to $3.86 a gallon.
WILLIAM BEACH, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: If you're trying to make it out there on what your boss was paying you a year ago, and prices are rising right and left, you may still have a job but you may not feel like you're well off because prices are rising everywhere.
PILGRIM: Driving prices higher, higher consumption, especially the booming and increasingly prosperous populations of India and China. Another reason for higher prices was the unintended consequence of U.S. government policy, subsidies for corn, for ethanol transformed agriculture.
KEN BEAUCHEMIN, GLOBAL INSIGHT: Wrongheaded policy, the energy bill of 2005, the corn ethanol subsidies forced people to plant corn in parts of the country which were not that good for growing corn. So we kind of have kind of a government-engineered supply shock there.
PILGRIM: The United States used to export its amber waves of grain but now the country has to import some of its wheat and wheat prices are now double what it cost a year ago. With meat prices, the National Cattleman's Beef Association points out corn for cattle feed doubled in price over the last two years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now food prices are also higher because the cost of transportation for bringing the goods to market. Higher gas prices and transportation costs are a problem for the average American family already being forced to contend with higher food prices -- Lou.
DOBBS: Just great news. Amazing.
PILGRIM: It's relentless.
DOBBS: You know, the idiots who -- I just don't even want to get started on it. I just can't believe -- you know, everyone keeps talking from this administration about why we have such high imports, it's because we're supposed to -- because it was making things so cheap. What stupidity gripped an entire administration over two terms is beyond me. It is -- it had to be seeded in some way.
PILGRIM: And it's never mentioned. It is never even mentioned.
DOBBS: It's ridiculous. And it is very tough for our middle class, for working men and women and their families trying to make it on basically static wages and ever, ever increasing prices. Kitty Pilgrim, thank you.
Let's take a look now at some of "Your Thoughts." Catherine in Tennessee wrote in about this -- as did a lot of other people, about our State Department outsourcing the manufacture of those electronic passports saying: "Dear Lou, I don't understand why our government didn't import the equipment necessary to make them here, thus creating jobs for U.S. workers. Lord knows we import everything else. But then again, that would have made too much sense, something this administration is incapable of."
Dawn in Texas: "Lou, I find it quite humorous that John McCain doesn't think it's the job of government to bail out U.S. homeowners hit hard by the housing crisis. But it is all for the bail out of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship for breaking our laws."
Laura in Georgia said: "Hillary Clinton blamed sleep deprivation for her lie about her trip to Bosnia. I wonder what kind of decision she will make when awakened at 3 a.m. when that red phone is ringing."
And Donna in Maryland: "Lou, the only thing about the outsourcing of the tanker contract that I find surprising is that it wasn't outsourced to China. Is there a recycle center for the 'made in USA' stamps?"
We'll have more of "Your Thoughts" here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book "Independent's Day." And please join me on the radio each afternoon Monday through Friday. Our three-hour radio show, "The Lou Dobbs Show." Go to loudobbs.com to find the local listings for the broadcast on the radio.
Up next, an American CEO who says he can't find enough American workers sufficiently educated to fill open jobs while millions of Americans are out of work. What's going on? We'll have that report.
And Howard Dean issues a stern warning to the Democratic Party about the bitter infighting between senators Obama and Clinton. Or is it really just sort of puffball at this point?
The United States suffering from a "birth defect" according to our secretary of state. We'll talk about that with our panel of political analysts. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Comments this is week by the chief executive officer of AT&T have stirred up a debate about American workers' skills, their education, corporate responsibility and the business practice of outsourcing jobs to cheap, foreign labor markets. The CEO is Randall Stephenson. He told an audience that he was having trouble finding skilled American employees and having trouble, therefore, bringing back jobs that the company had outsourced to India.
Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Calling AT&T. There are millions of Americans looking for work right now. Last week, 366,000 Americans filed for jobless benefits for the first time. More that are 7 million people are unemployed in this country, almost 1.3 million out of a job more than 6 months.
Not even counted in the number of unemployed are 1.6 million who have dropped out of the work force, almost 400,000 of them because they're so discouraged about job prospects. But AT&T says it can't find American workers with the right skills to replace call center jobs it's trying to bring back from India. AT&T promised in 2006 to bring some 5,000 call center jobs back to the United States from India, 1,300 to 1,400 have been filled handling calls mostly about broadband Internet service.
AT&T's CEO, Randall Stephenson, this week bluntly told a San Antonio business audience: "We're having trouble finding the numbers that we need with the skills that are required to do these jobs."
He lamented high drop-out rates and questioned American workers' competitiveness in the global economy. A leading academic on trade issues disagrees.
PETER MORICI, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: There are many hungry workers out there and there are many able people. AT&T is going to have to make the jobs attractive, give people decent working environments, training, and some decent benefits so that they will stay with them so that the investment in training will pay out.
ROMANS: An AT&T spokesman says: "We made a commitment to bring these jobs back and we are bringing them back. This is an offhanded comment during a speech about education."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: One blogger summarizing the CEOs comments this way: "We outsource because Americans are dumb." But the company spokesman said that's just not true. The CEO was addressing education, not the abilities or the skills of American workers overall. She said AT&T gave $45 million last year to education projects, is about to announce a new major education initiative. That this was a speech about education and that's it.
DOBBS: And AT&T, they say that if anybody wants a job, they can apply any one of those -- what is it, 3,600 jobs?
ROMANS: About 3,600.
DOBBS: They can apply by going to the Web site at AT&T, the corporate Web site -- I assume that is -- there it is, att.com/careers. I want to say one thing about Randall Stephenson now. I think he's probably getting some heat from some quarters. But I don't want him to think in any way that this broadcast is giving him heat.
Randall Stephenson, AT&T, your board of directors, I want to tell you how refreshing it is to have a CEO in corporate America stand up and talk about public education. And I don't care whether he made a slip of the tongue or it was an offhanded remark or prepared remark. I don't care. The fact is that an American CEO had the guts and the character to stand up and address an issue that every one of us should be thinking about in this country.
I disagree with him entirely about whether or not those jobs should be filled or can be filled. I think they can be filled instantly. But the fact he's talking about education and Randall Stephenson, let us tell you, you are selected, one of this -- we're going to give an award. Great American. Great American -- great independent American awards. We're going to fix up something fancy for you. There are going to be a lot to follow.
It is just so nice to see a CEO stand up by himself without the Business Roundtable or the Chamber of Commerce or some idiotic association around him. To actually represent the organization, the company, he is employed by.
ROMANS: Let me ask you if you agree with this comment that he made. He said that if he ran a business where half or a third of the people couldn't do their job, that's a metaphor for people not being able to graduate from high school, he would have to shut that business down, it would be considered a failure. Interesting point.
DOBBS: OK. I have to tell you that about -- we know there are about 1,700 high schools in this country that contribute about half of the dropouts in this nation. Think about that, 1,700, half of them. They are dropout factories without question. So I mean, his perspective is a little different than mine.
Mine would be that if you can't get the product -- if you can't bring out 100 percent graduation rate or pretty close to it, you've got to change management. I'd fire the principals of those schools. I'd get teachers in there who are going to perform, because I've got to tell you, it is not the kids. It is not the kids. It is a society, a community and a school that tolerates a lack of discipline, and doesn't have clear goals, isn't doing what it can.
We have a Department of Education. What do they do? They sit around and do bureaucratic nonsense. There should be emergency teams to go into a community and help that community, that local school board fix these high schools. We're failing a generation of young Americans and we simply can't afford to do that.
I think that's what Stephenson is talking about. Don't shut the schools, new management, new employees. Let's pay for performance in this country and take back these schools and deliver on the promise of public education. It is the great equalizer.
ROMANS: We'll look forward to see what AT&T's big push is going to be, its initiative on education and what maybe corporate America can do to fill the gaps.
DOBBS: And I will say this to AT&T, please don't talk to me about vouchers, don't talk to me about choice, don't talk to me about charter schools. Get out there and make a real difference. And that means do something that is not in the orthodoxy. The conservative orthodoxy, which so proud of vouchers, or the liberal orthodoxy, which is so proud of charter schools or magnet schools. Get in and make community schools work. We have got that ability. Let's do it.
So anyway, thank you very much, Christine.
ROMANS: Sure.
DOBBS: Christine Romans.
We would like to hear what you think. Our poll question tonight is, do you believe more corporate leaders should speak out about the challenges facing this country? Or should we just leave it to the knucklehead politicians? Yes or no, cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later. I didn't mean to be editorial in that, referring to the editorial political people. Up next, Senator Obama speaking out again about his relationship with his pastor. He just won't give this one up. We'll tell you what he is saying now.
And Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says the water's fine. She jumps in. She has got some thoughts on race and politics. She says the country is suffering from what she calls a "birth defect." We'll have that, and a great deal more. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, Michael Goodwin, Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist, New York Daily News and LOU DOBBS TONIGHT contributor.
Good to have you here.
Robert Zimmerman, Democratic National Committeeman, superdelegate supporting Hillary Clinton, and LOU DOBBS TONIGHT contributor.
Good to have you with us, Michael.
And nationally syndicated columnist, CNN contributor, Roland Martin, in Atlanta, Georgia, tonight.
Roland, good to have you with us. Thank you for being with us.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Glad to be here.
DOBBS: Let's start with the -- first the idea that, again, that for whatever reason we keep hearing these calls for Hillary Clinton to leave the field and I'm hearing -- and as I listen to national media, watched national media today, I don't know how many others besides this are pointing out the people making that call are all Obama supporters in the Democratic Party. What is going on?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: Well, look, it's obviously Obama people would love her to get out. I mean...
DOBBS: Well, that is just a no-brainer.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: And I'll bet you the Clinton people would like him to get out.
GOODWIN: Well, and I think there is nothing more to it than that. Also however, though, Lou, I think that one of things about Hillary is there is always a sympathy vote in her favor. So too much of this is going to backfire and give her another push.
DOBBS: You think there will be a backlash supporting it?
GOODWIN: Right. A backlash supporting her because of the notion that she should just get out.
DOBBS: Robert Zimmerman is just loving this.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I've got to tell you, obviously it's a political tactic and the fact that the media takes it seriously sort of confounds me. I'm not quite sure why. The more...
DOBBS: Because we in the national media hate Senator Hillary Clinton. Don't you read...
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, thank you for clearing...
DOBBS: Don't you read any of the...
GOODWIN: But I thought this was "Clinton News Network."
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: That was a different age, a different time, different management.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I'll tell you what concerns me, the idea that as much as I'm obviously supporting Hillary Clinton, more important than that is I want a strong Democratic nominee. And the idea of short circuiting...
DOBBS: Oh, bull, you want Senator Hillary Clinton no matter what.
(LAUGHTER)
ZIMMERMAN: I want to see a Democrat in the White House and we are not going to have a strong Democratic nominee who short circuits the process and excludes the voters from participating.
DOBBS: So you want Florida and Michigan counted.
ZIMMERMAN: It's a scandal that they're not counted.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more. What do you think, Roland Martin?
MARTIN: Well, I think the people in Florida and Michigan should be shooting the idiots who actually decided to disobey the rules...
DOBBS: What Roland Martin meant to say was "metaphorically, figuratively speaking."
MARTIN: Let me -- in the words of James Carville, I was quoted in context and had the desired result.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Look. I mean, first of all, I said the same thing about Mike Huckabee that you should stay in the race as long as you want to because folks have to vote. I do have a problem in the past where we have said that, oh, if only five or 10 or 15 states vote, then the other 35 or 40 states, they should just whatever decision is made.
I believe in all 50 states having their voice, which is also why I disagree with the Clinton folks who blew off those so-called red states. My view was, there are Democrats who live in Idaho. They should also count just like folks in Pennsylvania and Ohio.
DOBBS: So you're saying that we should have a redo in Michigan and Florida, then?
MARTIN: Absolutely not, 48 -- no, I don't. No, here is why. Forty-eight...
DOBBS: I got lost. You said 50 states there and I started to...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: ... and I came up two short.
MARTIN: No, no, here is the deal, 48 states followed the rules. The two states who are complaining are the ones who didn't follow the rules.
DOBBS: Are you telling me, Roland Martin, that you would have -- you would have millions of Democratic voters in Michigan, a state that is hurting on so many fronts and levels, be unrepresented in this, in this presidential primary contest for the Democratic nomination, and the people of Florida, one of the largest states, because the leadership of their state screwed up, not the voters?
MARTIN: Well, let's see, the leadership in 48 other states followed the rules. In Florida -- excuse me, in Florida, the Democrats voted 118-0 in the house. A Democrat was co-sponsor of the bill. In Michigan, the Democratic legislature, the Democratic governor...
ZIMMERMAN: Roland, let's do a reality check here, Roland.
MARTIN: So the Democrats, throw them out of office. They messed it up.
ZIMMERMAN: No, Roland, the reality is, we are talking about political rules devised by a political party. These are not...
MARTIN: Wait a minute, Robert.
ZIMMERMAN: Wait a minute, Roland. These are not arguments -- these are not facts of law we're talking about. The party has to adjust the rules because the principle is not standing behind the bureaucracy. The principle is making sure 2.7 million voters are enfranchised and we have a legitimate nominee.
MARTIN: So why did the people who were supporting Senator Clinton, who, on the rules committee also vote to change the rules?
ZIMMERMAN: I must tell you, I'm not...
MARTIN: They voted for it.
ZIMMERMAN: I'm not defending Hillary Clinton and I'm not defending Barack Obama. I'm saying to you the political leadership...
MARTIN: Why have rules? Why have rules?
ZIMMERMAN: Because...
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: Roland, rules can be...
DOBBS: Did you say whatever?
ZIMMERMAN: Rules can be amended and adjusted all of the time and they have to be.
MARTIN: Aw, got you.
ZIMMERMAN: No, you didn't, Roland. You don't get the fact that you don't -- you are ignoring the fact that we can't have a Democratic...
MARTIN: No, I'm not.
ZIMMERMAN: ... nominee without those two critical states participating. It's a scandal for you to try to rationalize disenfranchising the voters...
MARTIN: No, it's not rationalize, it's called reading.
ZIMMERMAN: ... for the purpose of hiding behind party rules.
MARTIN: Here's what it is. Like, let's see, if you move your primary, we take your delegates. You move your primary, we take your delegates. It is called -- look, it's called, we're going to follow the rules. They knew what the consequences were...
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: It's called playing games with the rules, Roland, for the...
MARTIN: They were arrogant.
ZIMMERMAN: It's called playing games with the rules.
MARTIN: Robert, they were arrogant.
DOBBS: OK. Gentlemen, I think that we...
MARTIN: The governor in Michigan was arrogant.
DOBBS: I think we have got a sense here of the dimensions of the problem. And Howard Dean, who is uniquely qualified to do so, will be able to resolve over the next couple of weeks. Let's turn to another issue and that's Condoleezza Rice talking about -- weighing in, I guess she thought that Senator Obama was having so much fun she would jump in, suggesting that a quote-unquote "birth defect" is at the foundation of our racial tensions in this country. What do you think?
GOODWIN: I usually describe it myself as slavery was the original sin of America. And I think there is clearly a lasting legacy. I don't think that it is in every way that it's often portrayed, but it's clearly an issue. So I didn't take any issue -- I mean, I think birth defect is a rather striking rather and almost a human term. But I think otherwise I had no issue with what she said.
ZIMMERMAN: I must tell you. I think she put it poorly. I don't know how it helps further a better understanding of how to address the conflict and the consequences of the race crisis in America. And that concerns me very much.
MARTIN: Oh, please. She nailed it, Lou. Here's what she was trying to say. We have to accept the reality that race was at the creation. It is in the DNA of America. When you actually look at the history of America, in terms of there was slavery, there was Jim Crow, we only really have a history, from an African-American standpoint they were frankly free for only about 40 or 45 years of the history of this country.
And so, she's trying to put it into context. She nailed it completely. It is in our DNA but whenever we deny that reality, then we have a problem. So she nailed it. And...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: We are going to take...
MARTIN: ... underreported.
DOBBS: We are going to take a look at that, as Roland Martin put it, underreported genetic defect, if you will, in just a moment.
And a reminder to vote in our poll. We'll be back with our panel. The question tonight is, do you believe more corporate leaders should speak out about the challenges facing this country all by themselves, standing up without either the Chamber of Commerce or the Business Roundtable to cast a shadow over them. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results in a few minutes. We'll be right back with our panel. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Michael Goodwin, again, on "The View" today, Barack Obama not wanting to leave that relationship with his pastor alone. He is injecting this thing right back in.
GOODWIN: Well, and the problem is his story keeps changing. There are minor modifications but enough to suggest he has not been forthright, Lou. And today it was this thing that he would have left the church had Reverend Wright not retired. Now the problem with that scenario is the comments that Reverend Wright is being hung out for all took place in 2001, 2002, 2003. There was no talk of retirement then. It's just now that we're learning about them.
Listen, Obama knew about some of this stuff. It's increasingly clear he didn't have Wright appear at his -- give the invocation at his announcement. He saw this thing coming. He had lots of warning.
DOBBS: That was a year ago -- a full year.
GOODWIN: That's right. So he knew it was a problem.
MARTIN: Actually, Michael, you might give half of the quote. He said that -- he said, had he not retired and denied those particular comments were hurtful. So he actually put those two together. That "and" is critically important there. But you're absolutely right.
The bottom line is, you keep getting asked the question, look, move on from it. The bottom line is...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... you were there. You move on from it. That's what you have to do.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: You can't keep going back and forth.
GOODWIN: Well, no, but I think the fact that he has never really answered the questions, which comments did he hear, was he aware of? He finally said there were some. But it's not clear. So I think that he has not closed the door.
MARTIN: We can pull all the sermons.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I'm sorry. Go ahead, Roland.
MARTIN: No, well, look, I mean, we can take all the sermons over 20 years and say, OK, so I agree with, let's see, these 17 or 18 years' worth of sermons, and disagree with these four or five.
DOBBS: Now, Roland -- whoa, whoa, whoa, now that isn't going to work. Let's be really honest. The comments by Reverend Wright were atrocious. OK? And in this nonsense of their five seconds sound bites, that's ridiculous. What's at issue here right now is the way...
MARTIN: Well, they were.
DOBBS: ... this country talks about race. And what is really transparent is that all the political candidates want to be the moderators of the discussion on race. That isn't going to happen.
MARTIN: I agree.
DOBBS: We're going to talk about reality. We're going to do it in the press. We're going to do it in media. We're going to do it in our churches. We -- I hope that religious leaders, you know, like Reverend Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will jump into this. I'd like to hear from -- and I know that a number of evangelicals are going to weigh in on this issue.
That is good. Stupid is to allow this to be a politically moderated discussion.
MARTIN: Well, I hope they actually do it.
DOBBS: Well, I think they will. I really do.
ZIMMERMAN: I think Senator Barack Obama made a very good first step with his speech in Philadelphia.
DOBBS: Oh, come on.
ZIMMERMAN: I do. But the problem...
DOBBS: All right. But it's irrelevant.
ZIMMERMAN: No, but here's the problem. Politically these issues are going to keep coming up, certainly through the election.
DOBBS: I agree. And thank you for pointing that out.
MARTIN: But, Lou, Lou, Lou...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Robert Zimmerman, Michael Goodwin...
MARTIN: You did like his speech, but guess what, Condi Rice came out because of that speech.
DOBBS: Roland Martin, I'm going to have talk over you, as usual. You never want to -- we'll take it up next week. Good to have you.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Keep going. Keep going.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: The results for our poll, 93 percent of you say corporate leaders should be speaking out individually about the challenges facing this nation. Thanks for joining us. Join us tomorrow. Good night from New York. Now from "CNN'S SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT: Busted! Mortgage Meltdown," begins right now.
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