Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Revival of Obama's Pastor Flap; Democratic Campaign Turning Nasty; Big Business Scare Tactics; Bankruptcy Filings are Soaring
Aired April 25, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight the Clinton and Obama campaign spending more time talking about race and gender, than the issues mattering most to Americans. We'll have complete coverage.
And the U.S. Chamber of Commerce at it again pushing an agenda that has nothing to do with the national interest or the common good. It's all about big business and its blatantly amnesty agenda.
And three New York City detectives acquitted in the case of Sean Bell killed in a hail of bullets outside a nightclub, critics of the verdict now discussing the race card. I'll be joined by radio show talk host Curtis Sliwa who will be here to give us his assessment of what's really going on, all of that, all the day's news and much more, straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Friday, April 25. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Senator Obama tonight refusing to disown his controversial former pastor, Jeremiah Wright. Obama repeating his view that some of Wright's comment were objectionable, but Obama is not condemning the pastor, the former pastor, even though Wright's comments were clearly inflammatory and certainly anti American.
For his part, Reverend Wright says his critics are quote, "unfair and devious". Meanwhile, there is increasing evidence that voters have had a belly full of nasty politics. A new poll showing a rising number of voters don't like the negative tone of the Democratic campaign.
We have extensive coverage and we begin tonight with Jessica Yellin in Washington -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, in Indiana today Barack Obama was trying to focus on gas prices, but he could not escape questions about his former pastor's latest comments. Reverend Wright says he feels he's become the target of hatred and he finds it unsettling.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I understand that he might not agree with me on my assessment of his comments. That's to be expected. So, you know, he is obviously free to express his opinions on these issues. You know, I've expressed mine very clearly. I think that what he said in several instances were objectionable. And I understand why the American people took offense. And, you know -- and as I indicated before, I took offense.
YELLIN (voice-over): Barack Obama speaking out on new comments by his former pastor.
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, BARACK OBAMA'S FORMER PASTOR: And put constantly over and over again.
YELLIN: The reverend Jeremiah Wright in an interview airing on PBS Friday night stands by past sermons that became a political firestorm.
WRIGHT: Controlled by rich, white people.
YELLIN: Wright said his words regarding the 9/11 attacks and race relations were taken out of context. He also reacts to Obama's criticism of him.
WRIGHT: He's a politician, I'm a pastor. We speak to two different audiences. He says what he has to say as a politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor.
OBAMA: Currently in Indiana, gas costs $3.60 per gallon.
YELLIN: Also today Obama criticized oil companies. At a gas station in Indianapolis, he called for a tax on their profit to help Americans struggling with high fuel costs. Both Obama and Clinton are campaigning across Indiana today.
OBAMA: All right. Thank you so much, everybody.
YELLIN: Where the race appears to be a dead heat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillary Clinton.
YELLIN: Clinton started in North Carolina, which along with Indiana votes on May 6. She once again urged Obama to face off in a debate.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'd sure like to give an answer with a day and a time. And I said I'll go anywhere any time to have a debate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: On that question of debates, Lou, Obama says he's done 21 debates, and he'd rather spend his time talking with voters. Now, both candidates are fighting hard in Indiana where that race could not be closer. Our new poll of polls shows Clinton and Obama tied at 45 percent each with 10 percent undecided and just 11 days until the primary. Lou.
DOBBS: Looks like another tight race and what are we expecting in North Carolina? YELLIN: North Carolina, Obama is very much ahead and is expected to win it handily. Folks are looking to see how he does with low- income white voters in that state in particular.
DOBBS: What happened to just winning a doggone contest, huh?
YELLIN: It's our fault too in the media. We focus on this stuff...
DOBBS: I accept none of the blame whatsoever.
Jessica, thank you very much.
Jessica Yellin from Washington.
Senator Obama today also insisted there will not be a racial split in the Democratic Party. Obama giving his reaction to suggestions there has been a final breach between President Bill Clinton and African American voters. Obama spoke after Congressman James Clyburn said the Clintons are doing everything possible in his words to damage Obama's candidacy and Bill Clinton's behavior he says is "bizarre." President Clinton himself says he's not stoking racial tension and he is accusing the Obama campaign of making race an issue in this election.
A rising number of voters say the battle between Senators Clinton and Obama is too nasty, too negative. In point of fact, a Pew Research Center poll says the number of people who believe the campaign is nasty has almost doubled over the past two months.
Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): The Democratic campaign has gotten intensely personal. Hillary Clinton runs ads criticizing Barack Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harry Truman said it best. If you can't stand the heat, get out of kitchen. Who do you think has what it takes?
SCHNEIDER: Obama runs ads criticizing Clinton for criticizing him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's Hillary Clinton's answer, the same old politics misleading negative ads?
SCHNEIDER: The news media encourages them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Obama, do you think Senator Clinton can win?
SCHNEIDER: What do the voters think of all this? Not much. A national poll taken by the Pew Research Center in the days leading up to the Pennsylvania primary reveals a sharp increase in the number who say the presidential campaign has become too negative. Twenty-eight percent fell felt that way in February; 50 percent feel that way now.
Among Democrats, the volume of complaints has more than doubled from 19 to 50 percent. What happened to the issues voters know want to know?
H. CLINTON: Thank you.
SCHNEIDER: Sure, Clinton won the Pennsylvania Democratic primary, but two-thirds of the voters said they thought she attacked her opponent unfairly. That could have consequences. Among Democrats who felt Clinton was unfair, 20 percent said they won't vote for her in November if she's the Democratic nominee.
Half of the Pennsylvania primary voters thought Obama's attacks were unfair. That perception could hurt him even more because Obama claims to be a different kind of politician. Nearly a third of those who believed Obama attacked his opponent unfairly say they won't vote for him in the fall if he's the nominee.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The candidates believe they have aired their big issue differences and this race is still not resolved. What's left to do but try to discredit each other personally? You know that's what happens when a campaign goes on too long. Lou.
DOBBS: Well, you know, I guess the ugly kind of way to look at it, what happens if both of these candidates are right about one another?
SCHNEIDER: Well then the Democrats have a very, very serious problem and that's exactly what has got Democratic leaders and superdelegates very worried right now that this is a demolition derby.
DOBBS: In the poll, who is the nastiest of the two?
SCHNEIDER: Both polls, the exit poll in Pennsylvania 67 percent said that Clinton attacked up fairly; 50 percent said Obama. And in the Pew Research poll, Clinton's negative has risen faster than Obama's...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHNEIDER: But look, she won the primary.
DOBBS: That's what I was going to say. And why would she not be -- why would Senator Obama not be even more -- even nastier in the next one, because it obviously works.
SCHNEIDER: Yes, well, there are a lot of people in his organization who are urging him to take the gloves off and go after her.
DOBBS: Well now...
(CROSSTALK) DOBBS: Wait, wait, wait, wait. We can't let that go.
SCHNEIDER: Yeah.
DOBBS: I mean we've got to acknowledge that Senator Obama ran some awfully negative advertising in Pennsylvania in those final days, particularly on health care. I mean good grief. Let's not in any way suggest that any one of these two candidates is pristine.
SCHNEIDER: Yes.
DOBBS: You think that's a fair -- a fair and balanced approach?
SCHNEIDER: I think that is fair and both of them have gone after each other gloves off. She's gotten most of the heat for it but, again, the remarkable thing is she still won the primaries.
DOBBS: Now I wonder if she gets most of the heat because she's a woman and there's some reaction on a gender basis in that poll. Did anyone examine that bias within the polling?
SCHNEIDER: I haven't looked at that, but that's an interesting hypothesis. I'll take a look.
DOBBS: All right, appreciate it, Bill Schneider as always. Thank you.
Time now to take a look at our poll. The question tonight is: Do you believe the Democratic presidential candidates are spending too much time talking about race and gender and not enough time talking about the real issues that matter most to Americans?
Yes or no. We'd like to hear from you on this. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
Another example tonight of what some might call nasty politics on the campaign trail. On a conference call with bloggers, Senator John McCain declared that Senator Obama is the choice of the radical Islamist terrorist organization Hamas.
Senator McCain said, "I think that people should understand that I will be Hamas' worst nightmare. If Senator Obama is favored by Hamas, I think people can make judgments." A Hamas spokesman, by the way, did say he wants Senator Obama to win the presidential election. Tonight the Obama campaign said that Senator Obama repudiates terrorism.
The campaign declaring Senator McCain is making assertions that he knows are untrue. This is the same Senator McCain who I believe said that the North Carolina Republican Party was out of touch with the people. Nasty presidential politics could well be distracting candidates from important national security issues such as Iran's increasing menace and President Carter's discussions with Hamas despite objections of the Bush administration and Israel.
Well in this case, a cargo ship under contract to the U.S. government fired warning shots at two suspected Iranian boats in the Persian Gulf. At the same time, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Mike Mullen was saying that Iran is stepping up its efforts to kill our troops in Iraq.
Jamie McIntyre has the latest for us from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(GUN SHOTS)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last month's botched Iraqi government offensive in Basra may have been a military debacle, but it was an intelligence boon according to Pentagon officials who claim it has exposed as a lie Iran's assertions it has cut the flow of arms to anti government militias.
ADMIRAL MIKE MULLEN, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I believe recent events, especially the Basra operation reveal just how much and just how far Iran is reaching into Iraq to (INAUDIBLE) instability.
MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say some weapons seized in Basra after the fighting like those in these official U.S. military photos were newly made in Iran. Date stamps on mortar rounds, rockets and armor piercing bombs show they were manufactured this year in the past month or two.
ROBERT GATES, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: What the Iranians are doing is killing American service men and women and inside Iraq.
MCINTYRE: In addition, sources tell CNN, captured Shia insurgents in Basra reveal some were trained in Iran and then returned to Iraq to train others. That's something the U.S. hasn't seen before. And the Pentagon is pointing the finger at this man, Brigadier General Qassem Suleimani, head of Iran's shadowy intelligence and sabotage unit known as the Cuds Force.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very hard pressed to believe that the head of the Cuds Force is not aware of this, given his interaction and quite frankly involvement in particular recently in the Basra operation.
MCINTYRE: General Suleimani is believed to report directly to Iran's supreme leader, Grand Ayatollah Khamenei. But Admiral Mike Mullen conceded the U.S. has no smoking gun that proves Iraq's top leaders are involved.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon continues to warn it has military options and they remain on the table, all the while insisting it would prefer to use economic, diplomatic and international pressure to get Iran to back off -- Lou.
DOBBS: But at the same time wasn't it Secretary of Defense Robert Gates who said that we simply could not even consider further fronts, given the fact that our troops are so committed in both Afghanistan and Iraq?
MCINTYRE: I'm not sure I follow the question, Lou.
DOBBS: The question is Bob Gates, the defense secretary, has previously gone on record as saying he doubts very seriously whether we have the capacity to deal with another front, given the commitment of our troops and our resources in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
MCINTYRE: Well I think that's why it's clear that nobody here at the Pentagon is spoiling for a major military confrontation with Iran. On the other hand, they see the situation in Iraq now as intolerable, allowing the Iranian influence to, as Bob Gates put it, kill U.S. troops in Iraq direct -- people directly trained and armed and motivated and sometimes even directed by Iran. It's simply something the Pentagon says can't continue.
DOBBS: It can't continue, but that is something they have been reporting to us now for more than a year.
MCINTYRE: Exactly. And so your question is, what are they going to do differently --
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: My question is does the United States military realize it's putting itself in a rather embarrassing position as being apparently impotent to deal with a situation that is against the interest of our troops, our brave young men and women fighting in Iraq, and why in the world would we tolerate the overall situation?
MCINTYRE: When General Petraeus lays out some of the evidence in the next week or so he's also expected to outline some of the actions that he plans to take.
DOBBS: All right. Jamie, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Coming up here next, corporate elites refuse to act on the national interest on the issue of illegal immigration.
Casey Wian will have the report for us -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is again warning that enforcing immigration law is bad for business. We'll tell you about their latest claims, coming up.
DOBBS: Remember when big business thought about the good of the country first? We'll take that up, look forward to your report, Casey.
Also, President Bush sending out tax rebates early, five days early, in fact. What will that do for millions of Americans facing bankruptcy and foreclosure? We'll tell you. And our nation's military secrets remain at risk, not just from our enemies, but also from bungling bureaucrats in our government, that special report and a great deal more is straight ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Some religious leaders in Rhode Island tonight are trying to advance their amnesty agenda for illegal aliens in this country. A number of religious leaders today meeting with Rhode Island Governor Don Carcieri. Those religious leaders opposed to the governor's executive order that cracks down on illegal immigration in his state. The Catholic diocese of Providence says his order is scaring, as he put it, Hispanics.
The business lobby tonight is also pushing its amnesty in open border's agenda. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which is the largest business lobby in the country, claims the government's plan to crack down on illegal immigration will cost legal workers billions of dollars in lost wages.
Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): The Department of Homeland Security wants to require employers to fire workers with fraudulent Social Security numbers. The so-called No-Match rule is an effort to crack down on illegal aliens. But the U.S. Chamber of Commerce paid for a study that claims the plan will cost businesses more than a billion dollars a year, and cost tens of thousands of legal workers to lose their jobs.
David Selden represents Arizona businesses suing to block a state law that imposes similar demands on business.
DAVID SELDEN, BUSINESS ATTORNEY: I say that would be very callous for the Americans who are no longer able to work because the government bureaucracy has not straightened out its records. I mean that's a terrible thing to take a person's job away and say you can't work here because the government computers are all messed up.
WIAN: The overwhelming majority of no match notices received by employers are the result of workers submitting bogus identification. But about two percent of those no matches are legal workers with mistakes in their records. Homeland Security's no match plans have been temporarily blocked by a lawsuit filed by the U.S. Chamber, the American Civil Liberties Union and others.
In a statement, DHS called the business lobby study simply wrong. "The No-Match rule does not create new legal obligations for businesses; rather it provides employers with clear guidance they have repeatedly requested on how to respond to receiving a letter from the Social Security Administration indicating that several of their employees' names don't match the Social Security numbers on file. The No-Match rule will make it harder for illegal aliens to use fraudulent Social Security numbers to get a job."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The U.S. Chamber of Commerce declined to be interviewed about the study and its claim that as many as 165,000 legal workers out of more than 250 million Social Security wage reports could lose their jobs because of the proposed No-Match rules. The Department of Homeland Security says that conclusion is a complete misinterpretation of the facts -- Lou.
DOBBS: What do you say about a Chamber of Commerce that could be working in any nation in the world? There is nothing -- they ought to just take U.S. off the Chamber of Commerce. Chamber of Commerce, that's all they think about. I mean they push idiotic ideas like this one. The report is a joke, the Department of Homeland Security saying so straight forwardly its conclusions abysmal.
The interests it is pursuing the U.S. Chamber of Commerce obviously are not American nor are they in any way rational and lined up in any way with American interests or the common good of the American people. This business lobby, every CEO in the country, look there's no greater defender of free enterprise democracy than me and business, but the reality is it's time for business leaders in this country to begin to step up instead of hiding behind the business roundtable and the -- the -- these whatever they are, at the Chamber of Commerce. I mean there's no shame here.
WIAN: It seems that they are committed to holding on to this cheap, illegal alien labor no matter what the cost is. I mean we have seen a report -- this report for the Chamber of Commerce was produced by a professor at Harvard University named Richard Belzer. We have seen another report...
DOBBS: Right.
WIAN: ... recently by George Boorhaus (ph) of the same university that shows in the state of Arizona alone, illegal workers have driven down wages by $1.4 billion for workers, and businesses are complaining about some alleged impact cost of a billion dollars nationwide. I mean it really makes you wonder where their priorities lie, Lou.
DOBBS: Well I think it's pretty clear where their priorities lie and maybe they should just offshore the lobbying interests of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to one at least we would hope it would be a neutral country. But probably it would be one perhaps maybe communist China somewhere like that.
By the way, I asked Tom Donohue who heads up the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, actually our segment producers asked him to join us. He's traveling and wasn't able to make it. I just want to make it very clear we would like to have the illustrious head of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce join us here to discuss their conclusions, including the sort of nonsense and prattle that they started spewing a few years ago about we need seven million illegal aliens to support baby boomers soon to retire. These people are out of their cotton picking minds. It's just unbelievable.
Casey, thank you very much, Casey Wian.
The business lobby is pursuing its amnesty agenda while the middle class in this country is under assault. And sometimes there's a connection. Gasoline prices have hit yet another record high. The national average for a gallon of gasoline is now $3.58.
President Bush today said tax rebate checks however will be mailed out as soon as Monday. President Bush said those rebates will help Americans afford the rising prices for gasoline, help pull our economy out of what he called this slowdown. The checks however won't be enough to help millions of middle class families facing bankruptcy and foreclosure. Bankruptcy filings are soaring and delinquencies on utilities and credit card payments are rising at a staggering rate.
Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One and a half million people have filed for bankruptcy in the past two years and a quarter of a million people have filed so far this year.
CHRISTIAN WELLER, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: We don't really see any end in sight, because people declare bankruptcy when unemployment rates go up, when they lose health insurance, and all of these trends are going in the wrong direction, meaning bankruptcies will continue to go up.
PILGRIM: Several states report astronomical bankruptcy rates, related to the housing crisis; California bankruptcies up 42 percent; Florida, 35 percent; Nevada, up 32 percent. And signs of household financial stress are building in the utilities sector.
ROBERT MANNING, ROCHESTER INST. OF TECHNOLOGY: Typically, what we see at the end of the winter season is people have fallen behind on their energy bills and trying to make sure they can pay their rent. But this year of course we have seen such a spike in energy prices that we're going to see not only more people that have fallen behind in their utility bills, but also they're going to owe more than they did in the past.
PILGRIM: Data released this month by the Federal Reserve found Americans increased their credit card debt by nearly nine percent in the last year, trying to cover bills. Retailing giant Target reported an eight percent delinquency on its outstanding credit card. American Express also just reported a jump in their delinquencies.
Nevertheless, the credit card solicitations keep coming. The Center for American Progress reports six billion credit card mailings are sent to American consumers every year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now some financial pressures cannot be avoided by the average family. Gasoline prices risen 26 percent in the last year. Now economists say that will cut further into consumer spending, so there will likely be layoffs in retail and the service sectors in months ahead -- Lou.
DOBBS: Six billion credit cards.
PILGRIM: Yes...
DOBBS: Wow.
PILGRIM: You know you get a lot of these in the mail, now you know how many of these are going out.
DOBBS: Well that means a lot of us are -- I mean -- let's see if I can do the math here quickly enough. That's...
PILGRIM: (INAUDIBLE)
DOBBS: Three hundred million of us...
PILGRIM: Yes.
DOBBS: ... that would be 20 for six billion per person...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: A lot of young folks getting some credit cards.
PILGRIM: That's right.
DOBBS: Well as long as they keep them coming to us old folks I guess we'll be all right. Anyway, it's crazy. And Congress sits here just like, OK we'll have a hearing on this. They're doing -- I suppose in many respects their best, but why not just deal with something as simple as putting a sealing on interest rates? Just start there.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: A sealing on the number of -- on the dollar amount of fees that can be charged on each card each year. I mean it's crazy what is being permitted here. I mean it's horrible.
PILGRIM: It is horrible. And you know the economists we talked to today says it is a policy failure for years because this credit -- this consumer debt has been building.
DOBBS: Call it a policy failure if you will. It's partisan politics. It's the Democrats and the Republicans own lock, stock and barrel by corporate American -- U.S. Chamber of Commerce, our good friends there, but it's also you know our leaders are pretty stupid to put us in this position. And we're pretty stupid to have tolerated it.
So we've got to do deep thinking I hope this year as we approach November. Maybe we'll do thinking before November even. PILGRIM: That would be helpful for American families I think.
DOBBS: You better believe it.
Kitty, thanks, Kitty Pilgrim.
Up next here, your government at work, how this country could be exporting sensitive U.S. military technology to our enemies without even their help.
And race and politics dominating the battle for the White House, why the Obama campaign says the McCain campaign will win the racist vote. Three of my favorite political analysts join me to figure out what in the world these candidates are trying to do to themselves and this country.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New suggestions tonight the agency that oversees our nation's airlines is putting the traveling public at risk. Federal aviation administration officials covered up mistakes by air traffic controllers at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport. The Department of Transportation's inspector general found that errors by traffic controllers were reclassified as pilot errors intentionally.
The FAA and the airlines are already under great criticism after thousands of flights have been canceled recently because of failed safety inspections, and a new risk tonight to report to our nation's security from the federal government. An investigation by the Government Accountability Office found a clear, critical lack of coordination among federal agencies, and as a result, sensitive U.S. technology could be exported to our enemies.
Lisa Sylvester has our report from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Keeping the lid on sensitive military technology is not easy for the U.S. government. The State and Commerce Departments are supposed to regulate defense trade to ensure critical technology does not end up in the hands of an enemy nation or terrorist group. But a study by the Government Accountability Office found the agencies are not doing a very good job.
According to the GAO, poor coordination between the agencies has created vulnerabilities. The office notes there is a risk that quote, "sensitive items, such as missile-related technologies, will be exported without appropriate review." A potential for catastrophe.
JAMES CARAFANO, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: The problem is, is we could do 99 good days, but the one day we take a day off, you know, some day that day could be a mushroom cloud over Manhattan. SYLVESTER: The GAS says the State Department lacks the needed manpower. The agencies export control caseload increased 20 percent from 2003 to 2006, but it added no personnel during the period. And congressional critics say the list of sensitive control items is not regularly updated to keep up with globalization.
SEN DANIEL AKAKA (D), HAWAII: The U.S. export control system is really a relic of the Cold War and it is not effective.
SYLVESTER: Acting assistant secretary, Steven Mullen, in a hearing said the State Department in the past year has instituted a number of reforms and other initiatives. Some examples? Filling key leadership posts that had been vacant and developing new defense treaties with U.S. allies. But critics still say the U.S. government is not doing enough fast enough, and that sensitive American developed military technology could end up being used against the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
In January, President Bush announced a series of directives aimed at streamling the export control application process for U.S. allies. Industry groups applauded this decision, but several watchdog groups are worried that there will be a rush to process these applications in the interest of commerce, but at the expense of national security -- Lou.
DOBBS: The business groups are the ones cheering?
SYLVESTER: They are the ones cheering, the industry groups.
DOBBS: That's the wrong quarter for cheers to originate, I believe in this case. We appreciate it very much. Very troubling report. Thank you, Lisa Sylvester in Washington.
Time now for some of your thoughts. Jenny in California said, "Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Howard Dean need to stay out of the Democratic nomination process. The American people are sick and tired of politicians or the Supreme Court picking their president. Our founding fathers fought hard for the people to have a say. Let democracy work."
And Carinne in Alabama said, "Thank you for your unbiased coverage of the Democratic race. You have guests that speak for (and against) both candidates. Thank you for giving viewers a reason to stay tuned to CNN." Well, we try.
We'll have more of your thoughts here, later. Please join me on the radio every weekday afternoon. Among our guests Monday, Ross Perot's chief economic strategist, Dr. Pat Choate will be among those joining us. We'll be talking about the North American Union, the rising number of registered Independents in this country. And from Philadelphia Geno's Steaks owner, Joey Vento, joins us fresh off of his debate with Geraldo Rivera.
And Bob Wise, former governor of West Virginia we'll be talking about reform of public education in this country. All of that on THE LOU DOBBS SHOW on the radio, Monday thru Friday in the afternoon. You can go to loudobbs.com to find your local listings.
Up next, is the reverend Al Sharpton, well, is he using the race card after he suggests two detectives brought out the race card in selecting their attorneys in the Sean Bell case? We'll talk about the verdict with radio talk show host, Curtis Sliwa, the founder of the -- of the Guardian Angels and a terrific, terrific observer of the New York social scene, if you will, on the street level.
And Senator Barack Obama facing new questions about the controversial former pastor and his refusal to disown him, again. And senators Obama and Clinton in a dead heat in the critical primary state of Indiana. What about North Carolina? I'll be talking with three of the best political analysts about that, and a great deal more. Stay with us, we're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the best political analysts in this country. "New York Daily News" columnist, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT contributor, Michael Goodwin.
Michael, good to have you here.
New York bureau chief of the "Washington Post," Keith Richburg.
Keith, great to have you here.
And Democratic strategist, superdelegate supporting Senator Clinton, member of the Democratic National Committee, personal friend of Howard Dean, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT contributor, Robert Zimmerman, good to have you with us.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you for the welcome.
DOBBS: All right, Keith, let's start. I mean, I don't even know what to say. Senator Obama's good buddy, Reverend Jeremiah Wright will not shut up and will not go away. What is going on?
KEITH RICHBURG, WASHINGTON POST: I'm surprised that Senator Obama hasn't used some of that cash he has raised to get him a long trip maybe through Europe or Asia for the next several months or so.
DOBBS: I mean, it's amazing to me. And the more the man talks, the more you realize what in the world was Obama thinking putting up with him for 20 years?
RICHBURG: I mean, he obviously, you can't shut him up. I mean, he's got a right to speak out as he will, but you know, I'm surprised we haven't heard from him before now, that he's only now decided to comes up and defend himself. I think, you know, at least, if there's any silver lining in it for the Obama team, it's at least now he's starting to say, well, I disagree with Barack Obama, you know, we disagree with each other, so, they're trying to put some distance between themselves, the campaign and Reverend Wright, so that's the only silver lining.
DOBBS: You think that's genuine, or contrived?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: Well, I don't think there's any silver lining at all for Obama. I think the comments by David Plouffe, the campaign manager, about that basically all of the racists will be voting for John McCain, David Axelrod...
DOBBS: Since you brought that up, let's go to this. Ben Smith of politico.com reporting from the Obama campaign manager, David Plouffe as told to Linda Douglas from "The National Journal," here is what Plouffe said: "The vast, vast majority of voters who would not vote for Barack Obama in November based on race are probably firmly in John McCain's camp already."
That may be one of the dumbest things that anyone associated with Obama's campaign could possibly say. What am I missing, here?
GOODWIN: Nothing, because what's interesting, in the rest of the interview he goes on to talk about how the Obama campaign is counting on the black vote. So, you know, there's a real double standard here, if you vote against Obama you're probably a racist, if you vote for him, well, we can just count on that because you're black. I mean, there's a real racial calculation going on now in the Obama campaign, and I think it's going to backfire.
DOBBS: You think it's going to backfire.
GOODWIN: Yes.
DOBBS: Is there any way you can rationalize that kind of stupid comment?
ZIMMERMAN: Now look, I have taken on the Clinton surrogates for their obnoxious statements, I have been -- think have been way over the top, this one though, stands alone. For a candidate that's trying to, and had previously, been a unifier and energizing new people to the process, to make such -- for his campaign manager to make such a divisive statement, and for David Axelrod, just a few days ago, to say -- to diminish the importance of what he called "white working class voters" in choosing a president, shows that this campaign has really become almost a caricature of old-fashioned politics.
DOBBS: Well, what it's become, it seems to me, is a campaign that's forgot it's origins. I mean, the thing that made Senator Obama so compelling, such an attractive candidate -- and I have to tell you, I wanted to like this man greatly, I wanted -- I really did, until two things occurred. One is, he decided people who wear lapel pins, flag pins on their lapels, you know, are trying to be some kind of phony patriot. I found that more than a little offensive. And second, his position on illegal immigration, which he embraces.
But this is -- he's now -- he's running a race-based campaign and I can't see any other way to articulate it. Can you?
RICHBURG: Well, I wouldn't call it a race-based campaign, you know, that's a little bit strong.
DOBBS: Well, let me read this to you. Let me read this to you. Here we go. "The vast, vast majority of voters who would not vote for Barack Obama in November based on race are probably firmly in John McCain's camp already." Is there any other way to interpret that statement?
ZIMMERMAN: I need to say something in defense of Barack Obama.
DOBBS: Well no, first, before you defend Barack Obama, answer my question.
ZIMMERMAN: That statement, obviously is antagonistic it's racially divisive, but that doesn't define the entire Obama campaign or define Barack Obama...
DOBBS: Wait, wait, please, don't waste your time with crocodile tears over what happens to the Obama campaign. Go support your candidate, have at it, do it straightforwardly and we will love you for it. But, don't shed crocodile tears for your competitor. And then we'll get to Senator Clinton in a moment.
RICHBURG: I have no doubt you will
GOODWIN: Well, Lou, as you can see, I completely agree with you in the sense that I too found Obama very compelling, but I think Jeremiah Wright has kind of ripped the mask off a little bit of another side of Obama. Now Obama didn't say these things himself. None of these things Obama saying himself, but all of the people around him saying these things, you begin to, you know, judge him by the company he keeps. And I think that's a fair point in this campaign, and he promised to get beyond race, but here we are talking about race and race only.
DOBBS: And -- I'm sorry, Keith, go ahead.
RICHBURG: I was just going to say, look, race and gender were always going to be part of this campaign when have you a black candidate and woman candidate running, they were always a subtext. And the question will always be asked, is there a hidden vote? Is there a hidden vote that's not being polled out there that says we will not...
DOBBS: OK, let's assume there is.
RICHBURG: We have to get that...
DOBBS: Let's assume there is. These are people who are asking us to take them seriously as potentially leaders of this nation. I got to tell you, I'm ready to puke. I mean, this is disgusting. We're going to get to what Senator McCain said today, here in just a moment. And then our very eager panelist, Robert Zimmerman will have his say. Stay with us. We're coming right back. We'll be talking about a whole host of things on this ridiculous campaign trail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Well, we're back with our panel: Michael Goodwin of "New York Daily News." Keith Richburg, "Washington Post." Robert Zimmerman, Democratic National Committee, Senator Hillary Clinton's superdelegate.
And Senator McCain, I want you guys to sort this one out for me. We sorted out Obama, we've sort out -- well, we'll sort out Clinton here in a minute. Senator McCain said quote, on a conference call with bloggers, "I think the people should understand that I will be Hamas' worst nightmare. If senator Obama is favored by Hamas, I think people can make their judgments." A Hamas spokesman did say, as we know, that they -- they he believed that Obama would win the presidential campaign. What -- what is that?
ZIMMERMAN: That is John McCain running a Karl rove campaign. Let's get to the bottom line, here. I give to you, Michael. Here's the point. While John McCain...
DOBBS: Does that feel good to say that?
ZIMMERMAN: It felt good to say that and it's actually true. While John McCain is very self-righteously calling on the North Carolinian Republican Party not to run that commercial, he's going to maybe 12 different media markets denouncing that commercial, prompting the media to show it in the free marketplace.
DOBBS: That's so cynical, Robert.
ZIMMERMAN: Somehow, I don't know, somehow, this campaign has brought it out in me. So, while John McCain's out there being so self-righteous about the Republican Party keeping above the fray, he engages in this kind of ugly character assassination and this is really what defines the Republican Party as a Karl Rove...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I thought you were in a generous spirit tonight. I thought you were going to defend Senator Obama, I thought -- but, no. But, no.
GOODWIN: I actually thought what McCain said was a fair shot.
DOBBS: Did you really?
GOODWIN: Hamas, basically -- he didn't just say that they thought Obama was going to win, he said that they preferred Obama. That's an endorsement in political terms.
DOBBS: That's like, what is it? Hagy...
GOODWIN: And McCain eventually got around to slapping him away...
ZIMMERMAN: Here's the difference, Obama said from the very beginning, Obama said he would not meet with Hamas and that was off the table, and John McCain is chasing Hagy for his endorsement. GOODWIN: But, they endorsed him.
DOBBS: Chasing him?
ZIMMERMAN: Chasing him.
DOBBS: Chasing him?
ZIMMERMAN: Chasing him.
DOBBS: He got it.
ZIMMERMAN: Revered Dobson -- and the other one went after SpongeBob Squarepants' sexual orientation, Reverend Dobson, nobody's going after.
DOBBS: How did that work out? What was the orientation?
ZIMMERMAN: That's too private a conversation. That's between Reverend Dobson and SpongeBob. I don't want to go there.
DOBBS: So, what in the world is going on, here? I mean, you want to answer it, Keith?
RICHBURG: I just think McCain's playing, you know, hardball and absolutely vicious politics with that one. Look...
DOBBS: Absolutely. What?
RICHBURG: Vicious politics. You can go around the world and find a leader of some country or some rogue state saying, oh, I prefer this one in the U.S. and then use that to say: a-ha, he's endorsed my opponent. So, what does that mean? I mean, that's -- that was just a cheap shot, I think.
DOBBS: But I am taking by, is the breathtaking seeming reversal of virtue from yesterday when he was admonishing the North Carolina Republican Party's leadership for wanting the run that ad that linked Obama and Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
GOODWIN: I think one thing that is going on, Lou, what's consistent with all these is, Obama is being defined by his critics and his opponents and by his unfortunate associations, not by the things he wants to achieve.
DOBBS: Are we going to let Senator Hillary Clinton get off this easy tonight?
GOODWIN: No.
DOBBS: Your thoughts on Senator Clinton, very quickly, Rich.
RICHBURG: Very quickly on Senator Clinton, you know, I've heard her campaign people have been telling us about the, sort of, working class white voters, he can't win them in November. She's got to be really careful because, yeah, it's true, he can't win without those voters, but she can't win without black voters.
ZIMMERMAN: But the difference is, she's working hard to make sure that her voters stay united. And you don't hear women or working class voters saying they're going to leave the Democratic Party if she's not picked. You do hear too many of Obama's supporters they're going to walk away and that is not, in fact, how we're going to win in November.
RICHBURG: True. But, I'm just saying, if she wins the nomination in any way that's perceived as ugly or unfair, you're going to have this...
ZIMMERMAN: The only thing that's ugly and unfair, Keith, is we don't allow Democrats to vote through this primary process.
RICHBURG: Well, they're going to vote.
ZIMMERMAN: Just in Michigan and Florida.
RICHBURG: That's exactly -- two most critical states. Florida, you can make a case. Michigan, where he wasn't on the ballot, that's going to be...
ZIMMERMAN: Because he withdrew his name, legally.
RICHBURG: Following the rules. Following the rules that were in place at the time.
DOBBS: You don't want to say a word, do you?
GOODWIN: I had one...
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Keith, you may have Michael's time.
RICHBURG: I mean, look, it's like in sports, all right? If you have a came that's an exhibition game, both sides agree it doesn't count, it's exhibition. At the end when you're deciding who goes to the playoffs, you can't have one team say well, if you count the exhibition game, we actually are better than you in the standings. It doesn't matter.
DOBBS: I accept your metaphor, but for millions of Democratic voters in Michigan and Florida, they've been simply disenfranchised by Howard Dean and it's that straight forward, there's no metaphor that escapes that result.
RICHBURG: But, millions more didn't vote because they were told it doesn't count for delegates. How about all those who stayed home because they followed the rules?
DOBBS: I would suggest to you, right now, that somebody call up the screaming Howard Dean and say scream as much as you want, do a primary election in those two states. It's too important.
ZIMMERMAN: And also, as long as you're on the phone, call Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: That is the last word, I promise you.
Up next, Reverend Al Sharpton accuses black attorneys of using the race card in the Sean Bell case, representing, that's right, African-American clients. We'll try to figure some of this out with radio talk show host and Guardian Angel founder, Curtis Sliwa. Stay with us, we're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, joining me now Curtis Sliwa, he's radio talk show host, WABC, KABC, he's a -- I think, an institution of the Citadel Broadcasting, he's also importantly, the founder of the Guardian Angels. Good to have you with us.
CURTIS SLIWA, GUARDING ANGEL FOUNDER: Oh, pleasure, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, we had three detectives, not guilty on all count, today. That was the judgment of the judge in the case. Immediately we heard the media start talking about the discontent and the reaction and there was a visible -- you know, I guess some jostling in the crowd for a while. What was the -- how did news organizations in the city suddenly start talking about reaction to a verdict when it was not easily determined?
SLIWA: Well, remember, don't believe the hype here, because you didn't have the racial ingredients. You didn't have like, three white Irish cops shooting 50 times at black suspects. You had black cops shooting at black suspects. And even though, obviously, you can say it was though to connect the dots and figure it all out, it didn't have that racial component. It wasn't like (INAUDIBLE), in fact, you even had Al "Slim Shady" Sharpton saying that the two black cops had no right to have two black attorneys representing them, because that's playing the race card.
DOBBS: Yeah, what did he say? He said these -- let's roll the sound bite, if we can, because, I mean, this is sort of stunning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: The lawyers, two of whom were black, who played the race card, that we're the good guys, and these are the bad blacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: I mean, that's pretty staggering by any standard. The idea that -- that African-American defendants, in this case...
SLIWA: But Lou, you see, early on, in opening remarks, you knew this case was lost when the prosecutor apologized to the judge, who was hearing the case, not a jury, said: now, you're going to hear a lot of witnesses, their mumbo-jumbo doesn't seem to make sense, because it's going to be in direct opposite to the previous witness. So, you knew it was a losing case. And Al Sharpton...
DOBBS: These were the prosecutors?
SLIWA: They didn't have a case. This was a political case. Now, I know it sounds bad to the rest of America, oh, my god, 50 shots. You have to understand the circumstance. Guy is having his bachelor party, there's three homeboys with him. They're in a giggle- wiggle joint with all kinds of problems. They come out...
DOBBS: It's 4:00 a.m.
SLIWA: Right, 4:00 a.m. and they're negotiating with one of the dancers about how all four are going to be serviced. She says: you're out of my mind, Lou, I'm doing two, not four and her pimp comes by said: the girl said two, Sean, not four. And that's when this beef started. The pimp reaches into his belt to grab his gun. All of a sudden, Guzman, who is a friend of Sean Bell says: get the gat, and the undercover DTs -- detectives, were there, and that's how they responded.
DOBBS: They responded -- it's an absolute tragedy, without question. And we know that there's going to be a Justice Department review. The city is focused on this, and all of this, at 4:00 a.m., in a miserable, miserable situation.
SLIWA: But now it's about the money, the moola-schmoola. The one-third of the ambulance casers are going to get, Rubenstein and Hardy, who get farmed to work by the family adviser, Al Sharpton, who sits back now -- and remember, he gets a little bit of the action to his non-profit organization, a 501C3.
DOBBS: The National Action Network.
SLIWA: One-hundred million dollars is at stake over the wrongful death case. And remember, the city will settle. So, it's a guaranteed third for the lawyers and then they kick it to Al "Slim Shady" Sharpton who will stay at five-star hotels as he travels first class all over this country for his next case.
DOBBS: And the officers who had to be on street that morning?
SLIWA: Oh, they're gone. They're going to have to go through a departmental trial. Raymond Kelly is going to be the commissioner, and that's it. They'll never be busting their shoes as a member of the NYPD again. Their lives are ruined, as obviously are the families -- Sean Bell's family, who lost their son and even the other two who got shot up numerous times. I know, I was shot five times, I know what it's like. So, they're going to have pain for the rest of their life.
DOBBS: Curtis Sliwa, thanks for being here to straighten us all out.
SLIWA: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Appreciate it. Still ahead, we'll have the results of our poll, some of your thoughts on Democratic race for president. It's pretty, isn't it? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of our poll -- 87 percent of you say the Democratic presidential candidates are spending too much time talking about race and gender, and not enough time talking about the real issues that matter to Americans.
Let's take a look now at some of your thoughts.
Dale is Missouri said: "Lou, I'm a life long Democrat. If the DNC forces superdelegates to choose before the contest ends, I will vote Republican or not at all. I will also register as an Independent. They are killing the Democratic Party by refusing Michigan and Florida and then the rest of the remaining states."
Griff in Texas said: "Remembering the Ike-Taft convention fight, I do not understand why people are having conniption fits about having a real convention. The Ike-Taft fight did not destroy the Republican Party and this one won't destroy the Democratic Party. People get too hysterical nowadays, probably too much 24 hour television."
Now we would like to argue vigorously against that conclusion, I assure you. But I won't.
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow.
For all of us, thanks for watching and good night from New York.
"THIS WEEK IN POLITICS" -- it begins right now.
