Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Senator Clinton Vows to Fight; Democrats Divided; Calls for Senator Clinton to Quit; Drug Trafficking Linked to Campus Bust; Rights under Fire; Hire Americans First
Aired May 07, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf.
Tonight Senator Clinton vows to fight on against Senator Obama, but she faces a tough battle to raise money and maintain support. We'll have complete coverage.
Also federal agents say an illegal alien gang member is a top suspect in a massive college drug ring. We'll have a special report.
Also rising backlash in Congress against employers that import chief foreign labor to replace American workers, we'll have that story, all the day's news and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, May 7. Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
Senator Clinton today declared she will stay in the race for the Democratic nomination. Now Clinton saying she'll continue fighting until there is a nominee. Clinton believes she's more electable than Senator Obama. But she failed to achieve a game-changing result in Indiana and North Carolina and Clinton is short of money, she loaned her campaign more than $6 million in the past month.
Suzanne Malveaux is with the Obama campaign and reports -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, earlier today Senator Clinton was on the Hill in Washington trying to convince the superdelegates A, why she should stay in the race and, B, why she believes she's the stronger Democratic candidate when it comes to the general elections despite, despite this uphill battle.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): It's the moment of truth for Hillary Clinton, this is hers.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I need your help in this campaign; next Tuesday will be one of the most important elections in this entire process.
MALVEAUX: For Barack Obama, this is his. SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We stand less than 200 delegates way from securing the Democratic nomination for the president of the United States.
MALVEAUX: After Clinton's trouncing in North Carolina and razor- thin victory in Indiana the senator put on her best face.
H. CLINTON: It's a new day. It's a new state. It's a new election.
MALVEAUX: But the day after was rough.
H. CLINTON: First things first, turn this economy around, end the war in Iraq.
MALVEAUX: While Clinton was campaigning in West Virginia, the site of the next primary, pitching her populist themes (ph), her long time friend, former Senator George McGovern, was publicly calling on her to drop out of the race, endorsing Obama. McGovern phoned her husband, Bill Clinton, to deliver the news, saying it was time for the party to come together.
H. CLINTON: Well I respect him and you know he has a right to make whatever decision he makes. I'm staying in this race until there's a nominee.
MALVEAUX: But staying in the race has been expensive. Today she acknowledged she lent her campaign another $6.4 million over the last four weeks to stay competitive. She rejected the notion it was out of desperation.
H. CLINTON: Well it's a sign of my commitment to this campaign.
MALVEAUX: But Tuesday's results show voters are split over their commitment to her. More than 90 percent of African American voters are now consistently backing Obama, a trend Clinton expressed confidence she could reverse.
H. CLINTON: Come the fall election I think that African American voters, which are a very important part of the base of the Democratic Party will support the nominee.
MALVEAUX: But she portrayed the voters she's captured as being tougher to get.
H. CLINTON: What we have not been able to count on in the last elections are the voters I'm getting. You know women, particularly lower income women, Hispanics didn't come out for Senator Kerry. Working people are really a part of the base that we lost that we're trying to win back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And Kitty today Barack Obama took a brief break in his hometown here of Chicago but his strategist, his chief strategist, David Axelrod, as well as some senior aides holding a conference call with reporters earlier really outlining the strategy of bringing this race to a close. Axelrod telling me earlier today it's not appropriate to call for Senator Clinton to quit, to step down, that that would be disrespectful. That's her own call. What they are doing is trying to push the superdelegates to announce their decisions for each candidate.
Either way it seems to be working. There are three superdelegates who got off the fence today and said they're supporting Barack Obama -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: The pressure is on. Thanks very much. Suzanne Malveaux.
Well as Suzanne just reported, Clinton's next battle with Senator Obama will be the state of West Virginia and that primary will take place next Tuesday, May 13, 28 pledged delegates are at stake in West Virginia.
Now the Clinton camp believes she will do well there. West Virginia's voters are older, white, whiter, more rural than the rest of America and Senator Obama has struggled to win strong support in all of those groups.
Senator Obama by contrast is strongly supported by other groups, such as affluent whites and African Americans, some Democrats very concerned about the widening split in the Democratic Party. And those Democrats are worried the party's divisions could harm the eventual nominee in the November election.
Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): You've heard about the red-blue divide in American politics. Barack Obama condemns Republicans for exploiting it.
OBAMA: To slice and dice this country into red states and blue states, blue-collar and white-collar, white, black, brown, young, old, rich, poor.
SCHNEIDER: Well it's happening already inside the Democratic Party. Barack Obama is winning the blue Democrats, young voters, upscale urban professionals, well educated liberals, and African- Americans. Hillary Clinton is getting the red Democrats, seniors, whites, blue-collar and rural voters and more conservative Democrats. The split has gotten better since Clinton became a gun-toting, whiskey-drinking, street-fighting, tax cutting populist.
H. CLINTON: And I know how hard you're working, working for yourselves and working for your families, and I will never stop fighting for you.
SCHNEIDER: In Indiana, nearly half of the Democratic primary voters said they have a gun in their household. They voted for Clinton. And the half of Democrats who did not own a gun they voted for Obama. Red versus blue means left versus right.
In Indiana, Clinton lost liberal Democrats to Obama. They are the blue voters. Clinton and Obama split the moderates. Conservatives or red Democrats voted heavily for Clinton. This is the first time this year we've seen such a sharp ideological division among Democratic voters. The deeper that split becomes the greater the risk to Democrats in the fall if Obama wins the nomination.
Among Clinton voters in North Carolina on Tuesday fewer then half said they would support Obama over McCain. Whereas 70 percent of Obama voters said they would vote for Clinton over McCain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Red Democrats, older, more blue-collar, more conservative are the most likely to vote for a Republican. The Clinton supporters' argument, she would be the stronger nominee they say because she would be more likely to hold them. The Obama supporters' argument, he'll hold them because they're hurting so much under a Republican president -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: That's interesting stuff, Bill. Bill, if you would just stand by a second.
We'll bring in our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, who is in Washington to discus the latest developments. Candy, this afternoon Clinton met with top Democrats in Washington and afterwards, she spoke to reporters.
Let's listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
H. CLINTON: A number of members of Congress and others who have a role to play in this process and we talked a lot about Florida and Michigan. There was another demonstration here right before I arrived in West Virginia and I think everybody realizes we have got to resolve what's going to happen with the delegates from Florida and Michigan. I continue to emphasize and stress that we cannot disenfranchise those voters and I hope we'll have a resolution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Candy, what do you make of the senator's comments?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting. This whole day I think has shown three things that have to be settled before this race is decided and if you assume that it will go to Barack Obama.
One of them is that Hillary Clinton is acquiring a debt here that she's going to want to have taken care of. The other is she wants to play this through because she believes that she still has an argument. And the third is Michigan and Florida. She is not going to get out until she sees that settled. It's going to take these two campaigns coming together to figure it out. They're already together trying to work it out. I can assure you that whatever they come up with will not be a formula that will give one or the other the nomination. They will seat both these delegations, but not in a way that would give Clinton the nod. It won't be a definitive delegation sitting down at that convention...
PILGRIM: Let's bring Bill Schneider in. What might Clinton walk away with? The Democrats meet at the end of the month about Michigan and Florida. What might she walk away from at that meeting?
SCHNEIDER: It's hard to say. Candy just got it exactly right when she said it can't be definitive. Imagine what would happen, just think about this. Senator Clinton is behind in pledged delegates and likely to remain behind. She's behind in popular vote. She's going be behind very soon among superdelegates. There's only...
PILGRIM: He's still ahead in superdelegates...
SCHNEIDER: But only by 10 superdelegates...
PILGRIM: Right.
SCHNEIDER: ... and they're moving towards Obama. If she's ahead by all those counts, imagine, just imagine what would happen if Florida and Michigan are seated and they make Barack Obama the nominee. There would be howls of outrage. Those were irregular contests. They broke the rules. There would be a protest that the whole process is tainted.
PILGRIM: Candy, you know there is so much pressure on the Clinton campaign today. Who could talk her out of this campaign? Is it a personal decision? Is it a political decision? Who would possibly be able to talk her out of this campaign? She seems determined to stay the course.
CROWLEY: I talked to a number of superdelegates today and here is the one sort of over-arching theme. When I called and said is she going to get in, is she going to stay in? Is she going to get out? And they all said, ask her.
This woman has now campaigned for a-year-and-a-half. This is not a political decision. This is not about the math. This is about a personal decision. And I have to tell you that I did not find any -- actually I found one of the superdelegates that I talked to who thought she ought to get out now. Most of them said you know what, it's less than a month.
PILGRIM: Downside...
(CROSSTALK)
PILGRIM: Less than three weeks.
CROWLEY: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
PILGRIM: Yes.
All right, thanks very much, Bill Schneider and Candy Crowley, thank you for your analysis tonight.
Senator McCain apparently believes Obama is more likely to win the Democratic nomination than Clinton. Now McCain has been stepping up his attacks against Obama recently. And McCain's advisers say they are not counting Clinton out of the race yet, but the McCain campaign believes many Clinton supporters may vote for McCain in November.
Well as most Americans focus on presidential politics, U.S. diplomats and relief workers are focusing on the massive cyclone disaster in Myanmar. Now the top U.S. diplomat in Myanmar, formerly known as Burma, today said that the death toll could be as high as 100,000. And that is five times higher than the confirmed death toll so far. The Myanmar government struggling to distribute relief supplies. The United States has offered to send a disaster assistance team, but the military regime in Myanmar is refusing to allow that team to enter the country.
Still to come, unexpected developments in the case of Army veteran and gun owner David Olofson, a case that sparked national outrage and Bill Tucker in Milwaukee will have the report -- Bill?
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Kitty, David Olofson was to learn his fate here in the federal courthouse behind me tomorrow. But there's been a delay. We'll have the story coming up -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Bill.
Also, a massive drug bust in one of our nation's universities. We will tell how Mexican drug cartels may be preying on our students.
Also some members of Congress finally noticing that corporate elites are trying to import cheap foreign labor to replace American workers, we'll have a special report. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: New developments tonight in the federal drug investigation and raids at San Diego State University. Almost 100 people have been arrested and LOU DOBBS TONIGHT has learned that one of the key members of the campus drug ring is an illegal alien gang member with ties to one of Mexico's deadly drug cartels.
Casey Wian has our report from San Diego.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The arrest of nearly 100 suspected participants in a drug ring at San Diego State was enough to shock this quiet university.
JENNY CRUZ, SAN DIEGO STATE UNIV. STUDENT: I knew there were drugs on campus. I knew people were doing it. I didn't know it was to that extent.
WIAN: Drugs including methamphetamine, cocaine, ecstasy and marijuana, as well as cash and weapons were seized. Seventy-five students and six fraternities have been suspended.
DAMON MOSLER, SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTY. OFFICE: Of the 100 people arrested over the past five months, not all of them were students. In fact, 20 to 25 were not students. They were people off campus dealing to people on campus, dealing to students or people posing as students.
WIAN: The DEA says one of those arrested, Omar Castaneda-Arce (ph) is an illegal alien and a member of the Southside Promo (ph) street gang. The agency says he was the connection between the campus dealers and a Mexican drug cartel. Federal officials say he has previous convictions for weapons and drug possession and was once deported from the United States.
STEPHEN WEBER, PRES., SAN DIEGO STATE UNIV.: We're talking about trafficking. We're talking about people who were trafficking in drugs and that's the thing that we were not prepared to turn around -- turn our back on. We had to deal with this.
WIAN: The investigation was code named Sudden Fall because it began after the death of a San Diego student from a drug overdose last year. This surveillance video shows one of the alleged drug buys, investigators released this text message, allegedly sent by one of the arrested students to quote "faithful customers".
RALPH PARTRIDGE, DEA: It was very blatant, very simple text messages that they would get a code to, just cold hit, somebody saying that they were going to traffic and they would cold hit him with a text message and that person would text back and they would meet our undercover agent with drugs with never having met them before.
WIAN: The San Diego district attorney says most of those arrested in connection with the drug ring have made their initial court appearances. All have pleaded not guilty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: One of the arrested students was just a month away from receiving a Master's Degree in get this, Homeland Security. Another was a criminal justice major, Kitty.
PILGRIM: It's just a shocking story. Thanks very much, Casey Wian.
Well the conviction of a Wisconsin gun owner on federal weapons charges is raising serious questions tonight about the federal government's commitment to the Second Amendment. And that's the right of our citizens to keep and bear arms. Nine months after his conviction on charges that many say should never have been brought, gun owner David Olofson could pay a very heavy price.
Bill Tucker has our report from Milwaukee.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (voice-over): Army veteran, Reservist, father of three, David Olofson is looking at spending up to six years of his life in prison, the reason? He lent his neighbor his 20-year-old AR15 (ph), a semiautomatic rifle that is popular with gun owners.
The neighbor fired hundreds of rounds at a local shooting range and all was well until the rifle fired two multi-round bursts, drawing the attention of local police and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Olofson argued that the gun had malfunctioned and that given its age it simply needed to be repaired. He was never given the chance. He was taken to trial. That decision has gun enthusiasts outraged.
DAVID KOPEL, INDEPENDENCE INSTITUTE: This is a guy with a clean record, for whom there is not even the slightest allegation of any violence ever in his past, let alone any inclination to use violence against law enforcement officials.
TUCKER: In January he was convicted of the felony transferring a machine gun. Olofson's military pension, gone, he's out of the Reserves and he is now a convicted felon. His case has alarmed gun owners, law enforcement officials and lawmakers. The criticism begins with the way the search in Olofson's home was conducted.
DAVID OLOFSON, GUN OWNER: They used tools to pry, you know hydraulic tools to pry apart the door frame, kicked the door in. The SWAT team was fully armed with body armor.
TUCKER: Olofson's computers, gun manuals and gun collection were all seized. Nothing illegal was found. Olofson was never shown a search warrant or allowed to let the officers simply enter through his front door.
REP. PHIL GINGREY (R), GEORGIA: To think that a SWAT team would be organized, my God, did they suspect that Mr. Olofson was holding families hostage or had his children locked in the basement for two years?
TUCKER: Adding to the outrage (INAUDIBLE) Olofson's rifle by ATF concluded that it was not a machine gun. Not happy, the ATF ordered a second round of testing. That time, they did find a malfunction. It's called a hammer follow and it can cause a semi automatic weapon to fire multiple rounds.
TED DEEDS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ALLIANCE OF AMER.: If the malfunction wasn't apparent to the experts be it the ATF the first time, then they certainly shouldn't have prosecuted the guy for the malfunction. It just doesn't make any sense.
TUCKER: Critics say the problems stem from a lack of uniform testing protocol at ATF. Two bills have been introduced in Congress to overhaul ATF procedures and require videotaping of every test. They are H.R. 4900 and H.R. 1791.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TUCKER: Now the U.S. attorney here in Milwaukee and the ATF continue to maintain their silence. Having no comments saying they will have nothing to say until after Olofson is sentenced. That sentencing was to take place tomorrow but his defense attorneys filed two motions last week that have caused the judge in this case, Judge Charles Clivore (ph) to delay that sentencing.
And Kitty the sentencing is supposed to take place next Tuesday on May the 13th. And we of course will be here with that sentencing when it should happen, Kitty.
PILGRIM: We will continue to follow this story.
Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Coming up, some members of Congress want employers to hire American workers first, before bringing in cheap foreign labor.
Also, Hillary Clinton vows to push on amidst calls for the party to unite behind Barack Obama. Insiders from both campaigns will join me here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: On Capitol Hill tonight, members of Congress are calling on American business owners to hire Americans before hiring cheap foreign labor. Millions of Americans are looking for jobs. But employers in many industries claim there's a shortage of American labor.
Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Department of Labor says in April, 7.5 million Americans were looking for work. Another five million worked part-time because they could not find a full-time job. But many companies say they can't find enough American workers and must use foreign laborers. Congressional lawmakers want to know how to explain the discrepancy?
BRUCE GOLDSTEIN, FARMWORKER JUSTICE: Many employers prefer guest workers. Because they will work for less than U.S. workers and can be controlled more easily, because they cannot switch employers.
SYLVESTER: Business groups insist it's hard to find U.S. workers interested in agriculture jobs.
JOHN YOUNG, NEW ENGLAND APPLE COUNCIL: Those who are interested often do not show and many leave before the seasons end.
SYLVESTER: Under federal law employers are supposed to advertise and offer jobs to Americans and legal immigrants before applying for a temporary foreign worker through the H2A and H2B visa programs, that doesn't always happen. Attorney Javier Riojas told a congressional panel his U.S. clients applied for jobs with a Texas melon grower but says the jobs instead went to foreign workers for $3 an hour less.
JAVIER RIOJAS, TEXAS RIO GRANDE LEGAL AID: My clients were applying for the jobs, those that were from the Rio Grande Valley, and they were getting the runaround. They applied, called the employers, and they weren't returning calls.
SYLVESTER: Labor studies by Northeastern University show a huge job displacement the last seven years. Hardest hit, adults without high school degrees, African-Americans, second generation Hispanics, teens looking for summer jobs and young adults. The numbers show a clear trend.
ANDREW SUM, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Over the last seven years in the United States, we have not hired one single net new 16 to 24- year-old adult, not one. There are fewer people under 25 working (INAUDIBLE) 2000.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Now the Department of Labor acknowledged weaknesses with the temporary worker program. The agency is currently working on a final list of proposed regulatory fixes. But many of the experts said until the federal government is willing to crack down on employers who break the laws, this problem will continue, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Yes, it's a discussion until there's some enforcement.
Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester.
Time now for tonight's poll: Do you believe that Congress should create stricter guidelines to ensure American workers are hired before foreign workers whenever possible?
Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com and we will bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
We do have time now for some of your thoughts.
And Randall in Florida wrote: "Lou, I am the kind of Democrat the Democrats should be worried about. I cannot possibly elect an inexperienced, newbie such as Obama to the most important position in the world. I will vote for John McCain if the choice comes down to him or Obama because I feel the office needs experience, not just a good public speaker."
Michael in Florida wrote to us: "Dear Lou, I figure if I don't count to the Democrats, then they don't count to me. Today I re- registered as an Independent voter. I still can't believe these are the best candidates we can come up with for president."
Jackie in Florida wrote to us: "I am extremely disappointed with the Democratic Party. Since my vote does not count in the Democratic Party, maybe it will in the Republican Party. I'm another disappointed party member to soon become Independent."
We'll have more of your e-mail later in the broadcast. Also, do join Lou on the radio. Among his guests tomorrow, David Rothkopf, the author of "Superclass", talking about the power corporate elites have in American policy. Lou will also discuss race, religion and politics with Michael Eric Dyson, author of "April 4, 1968," and Father John Paris, professor at Boston College.
Go to loudobbs.com and loudobbsradio.com to find the local listings for "The Lou Dobbs Show" on the radio.
Coming up, Senator Clinton under pressure to quit the race for the Democratic nomination from some of her own supporters. Three top political analysts will be here and leading supporters of both Clinton and Obama will also join us to give us their assessment of this showdown.
Also a rising number of homeowners struggling to save their homes from foreclosure. We'll have complete coverage of the war on the middle class. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Senator Clinton tonight says she's in the race until there is a nominee. Senator Obama for his part today picked up more superdelegate support after his win in North Carolina.
Now James Zogby is a member of the DNC executive committee, a Democratic superdelegate supporting Senator Obama and he joins me from Washington.
And Maria Cardona is a senior adviser to Senator Clinton's campaign. She's also in Washington tonight.
Thank you both for joining us.
I would like to ask a fairly obvious question that many people are not asking today. Yesterday, the primaries basically went as predicted. Obama taking North Carolina, Clinton taking Indiana, and yet there's all this discussion about Senator Clinton dropping out.
Jim, I'd like to turn to you and say what's different today than was yesterday?
JAMES ZOGBY, DNC MEMBER AT LARGE: Well, what's different today is that Senator Clinton had to do yesterday she was not able to do. She needed to win decisively in Indiana. She needed to win decisively in North Carolina. She needed literally to turn the campaign upside down and she didn't succeed in doing it. Senator Obama won by 14 and lost by one-and-a-half in Indiana. And the result is we're in the final lap of a very long motor race.
He's already lapped her twice. There's no way she catches up before the end. If she wants to stay in until the end, that's fine.
My only concern is that a lot of damage has been done to get us this far in terms of the kind of negative campaigning that's gone on. I don't want to see the party any more divided than it already is. That's why it ought to end now.
PILGRIM: Let's let Maria in on this and let's also talk about the pledged delegates. There's 2,025 needed to win according to the Democratic Party. Senator Clinton now saying 2,209 including Michigan and Florida. Some accuse her of switching the goal post basically and yet there's a very strong argument that you can't disenfranchise millions of voters. So it will come down to the superdelegates.
Maria, I would like to get your thoughts on this whole discussion.
MARIA CARDONA, SR. ADVISER, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: Sure. Let me start by saying, you're right. The race yesterday, the day yesterday was good for Senator Clinton. We did what we needed to do. We won in Indiana. Two weeks ago, Senator Obama's campaign put out a memo saying they were going to win handily in both North Carolina and Indiana. Indiana is a border state of his home state of Illinois, they know him there. He could not close the deal. I think that calls into question whether he can moving forward.
What I would say about Michigan and Florida, you're absolutely right. They are critical voters there. They are critical states for the Democratic Party to win in November. You got a couple of e-mails right before our segment basically saying those voters in Florida were very upset at the fact that we were basically shunning them aside. That's a real dinger.
PILGRIM: Let me interrupt you. Today Senator George McGovern switched his vote to Senator Obama today saying it was virtually impossible for Clinton to win the nomination. Now he gave an explanation which I'd like to play for both you and Jim and let's listen to that now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. GEORGE MCGOVERN, FMR. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think that Hillary Clinton is going be destructive in any way if she stays in the race. But I'm hopeful that before we get to the convention, the nominee will be clear and we'll go into the convention with a united party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Is this sage advice from someone who's been there? Do you listen to this?
CARDONA: Well, he certainly has a right to his own opinion. But I think what matters more is for us to finish the process. There are millions of voters whose voices still need to be heard.
I'll respectfully disagree with Jim that this has been destructive to the party. I can't remember a time when people have been more excited about having their voices heard, about this passion about the Democratic Party. We will be unified at the end of the process. We've seen record registration for Democrats, record turnout, record new voters.
ZOGBY: Can't argue with that.
CARDONA: Record new donors. And I think that is all fantastic. We now have an infrastructure in all 50 states and all U.S. territories that we'll use at the end of this process to unify behind the nominee when we have a nominee to go on and beat John McCain in November.
PILGRIM: You had trouble hearing for a moment.
ZOGBY: I did.
PILGRIM: We would like to give you chance to reply.
ZOGBY: No question this has been an exciting race for Democrats. It's energized new constituencies that have never been involved in the way that they're involved today but it's also been divisive from the Geraldine Ferraro comments about Barack Obama wouldn't be in this if he weren't a black man to the way that the race issue was exploited.
If Democrats were going to come together, the time to come together wasn't at the end of the process, it was during the process. It wasn't a play into the race card as it was played into in a very destructive way.
So you're right. We have two polarized constituencies right now within the Democratic Party with Mrs. Clinton winning one side of it and Barack Obama winning the other side of it. Both are essential for victory. It's time for the party to heal now. This can't be about a candidate, it can't be about simply people feeling good about losing. It's got be about the party coming together. I thing the time to do sit now. If we don't do it now, it's going to be more difficult going forward.
PILGRIM: Jim, let me step in though. How do you resolve Michigan and Florida without disenfranchising them?
ZOGBY: You don't have to disenfranchise them but what you can't do is count the votes that were cast. There was no election in Michigan. Only one person was on the ballot. I know Democrats in Michigan, progressive Democrats, that voted in the Republican primary because they wanted to defeat John McCain.
In Florida, people voted because there was an important property tax issue on the ballot. Neither candidate campaigned in the state. These were not election. You can't find a formula that can be used in both states to bring people into the process and we should do that and that's what I know Howard Dean's trying to do. Can you count the votes? Neither candidate campaigned and in Barack Obama's case, he was not on the ballot in Michigan. How is that an election?
PILGRIM: Maria, last word but we're almost out of time. Quick.
CARDONA: They were elections. Those votes should be counted. They were certified by the secretaries of state. Senator Obama actually ran ads in Florida against the rules. I think we should move forward and try to find way to seat those delegations and to count the votes. It's the only fair thing we can do.
PILGRIM: All right. Maria Cardona, James Zogby, thank you so much for joining us.
Coming up, the Democratic race could come down to the question of who is most electable in the fall? We'll find out what three of the sharpest political thinkers in the country have to say next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Joining me now are three of the best political analysts and CNN contributors. We have Republican strategist and former White House political director, Ed Rollins, and Ed recently served as campaign chairperson for Mike Huckabee. We have Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for the "New York Daily News," Michael Goodwin and Democratic strategist and National Democratic Committeeman, Robert Zimmerman and Robert is also a Hillary Clinton supporter.
Gentlemen, thanks for being with me.
You know this post game analysis is very interesting but what is striking me the most is that basically the results came out sort of as expected and yet there's this enormous pressure on the Clinton campaign tonight to drop out -- Robert?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The pressure is coming from those that support Barack Obama and not from most objective independent analysts because the reality is the only way this campaign will come to a fair and proper conclusion is if we let the voters speak and make this decision but it should be pointed out at the end of last night, when the votes were counted, as much as I'm committed to Hillary Clinton, her campaign was not just about winning the votes, it was about beating expectations.
PILGRIM: Right.
ZIMMERMAN: And her campaign didn't beat the expectations in North Carolina and in Indiana. That was the problem she faced.
PILGRIM: What is the downside risk of just letting this go another three weeks?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, for those of us watching it, there's no risk at all. It's great sport at this point. I think if you're a Democratic Party leader, however, what's going on is that Clinton continues to expose Obama's weaknesses among particularly among white working class voters to no real end. She can't win now realistically either in delegates and the big thing last night was popular vote. Everything that she picked up in Pennsylvania she lost in North Carolina. She underperformed in both states.
She needed an upset. She's really almost half the remaining delegates were awarded last night. She got less than her half. So the clock has essentially run out on her now and I think as it goes on, we're just -- Obama is getting beaten up and it can only help McCain from now on.
PILGRIM: She's ahead by 10 superdelegates. In the popular vote, if you count Michigan and Florida, it's 200,000 votes.
GOODWIN: You can't count Michigan.
PILGRIM: You can't.
GOODWIN: He wasn't on the ballot.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: The reality is he went through a terrible, terrible six or eight weeks. You couldn't have had more thrown at a campaign that occurred. He came back. He exceeded the expectations in North Carolina, as Michael said. If she would have won by five or eight or ten points in Indiana, she could have made her argument. She had a squeaker that didn't come in until late in the night. You know your point is exactly valid. The expectations are exactly what happened. He won one, she won one.
But at this point in time, he came back. Her argument was I'm the one who can win. He was too wounded. He proved he's not so wounded.
GOODWIN: If I could just say one thing. If the numbers had been switched, for example, if she had run up a big score in Indiana and lost by a squeaker in Indiana or lost by a squeaker in North Carolina, then it would be a whole different conversation today. But both things, she underperformed. That's the key here.
ZIMMERMAN: I think what's also worth noting and I know there's a big debate about whether this process is helping or hurting the eventual nominee but I think the reality of this process is we have a record turnout I think in Indiana or rather in North Carolina it was increased by over 200 percent. Great record turnout in Indiana and we've had a consistently very high turnouts. It's been great if terms of energizing, fund-raising and support. So I think for the party it's been a very big builder. The issue here now is both for Senators Clinton and Obama to focus on John McCain and not on each other.
PILGRIM: That's right. You know you bring up fund-raising. We learned that Clinton loaned her campaign more than $6 million over the past month. That's a lot. She says it's her commitment, it reflects her commitment. Listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
H. CLINTON: We are being outspent, everybody knows that. We historically in the last several months have been outspent two to one, three to one, four to one, even five to one. But we've remained competitive. And I have been willing to loan that money to my campaign so that we could be competitive and I think it's paid off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Money may be the arbiter. ZIMMERMAN: It's a major issue. I do admire her for having the courage of her convictions and I've got to tell you throughout this entire process, I think Hillary Clinton has shown herself to be not just an excellent candidate but a person who is really prepared to fight for what she believes in and loaning her campaign her money is a reflection of that.
PILGRIM: Any thoughts?
ROLLINS: She's not going to get the money back. I mean obviously if she wants to self fund the rest of the way, she can do that. But at the end of the day, it's another sign that the campaign is not healthy where Barack Obama probably raised that amount of money this morning on the internet. I think the reality is that he has proven on all fronts that he is he's a viable candidate.
PILGRIM: He's a juggernaut on the fundraising. You know some suggest that Barack Obama still hasn't closed the deal and they say that this reflects something on his campaign.
ROLLINS: There's one point that I don't think Robert wants to make that I'm going to make.
PILGRIM: Go ahead.
ROLLINS: Ninety-five percent of his vote in North Carolina is the African-American vote. IT makes up 38 percent of the base. He has taken from the Clintons who have traditionally always and every Democrat that runs gets the majority of the black vote. He has taken that vote. He's won the big primaries that he's won with the black vote. If you won with the white vote, you'd be called a racist campaign. I'm not calling this a racist campaign. I'm just simply saying that that has made a significant difference.
This was not an equal slip between two candidates. When one person gets 95 percent of 38 percent of the vote, there's no way you can win.
ZIMMERMAN: I must say, just as an aside to that point, in fairness to Barack Obama, he did expand his support among white working class people and it should be recognized but I have to add a point that Ed doesn't want to bring up, because he's too modest. He's the one who predicted North Carolina correctly when everyone else was talking about how close it was going to be. He said if 90 percent of the African American vote goes to Barack Obama, he wins by at least 10 percent.
Ed, you nailed it right on the head there.
ROLLINS: Yes and I'm not saying anything is wrong with that but it's a narrow based constituency. It's going to be for any Democrat at the end of the day and obviously it will polarize white voters.
GOODWIN: That's his weakness going forward particularly in the swing states in general election, Pennsylvania, Ohio. That's why Clinton keeps pointing to them. They are key states to the Democrat. No Democrat has won by losing Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida. If Obama is going win the White House, he's going to have to put together another electoral map or better among the constituency that has so far resisted his charms.
PILGRIM: All right.
Gentlemen, we'll take a quick break. We'll get right back at it when we come back. More with our panel in a moment.
A reminder now, vote in tonight's poll: Do you believe that Congress should create stricter guidelines to ensure American workers are hired before foreign workers, whenever possible?
Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a minute.
Also, coming up at the top of the hour, the "ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown.
Campbell, what are you working on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Kitty.
Tonight we are going to begin with the very latest on this horrifying situation in Myanmar. 100,000 people or more may have died in that cyclone and we're going to go there first and have a live report for you.
Then we will tell you how the Democratic campaign is turning apparently against Hillary Clinton, probably for the last time. We're going to talk to her top spokesman, Howard Wolfson and also Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod. All that and more at the top of the hour -- Kitty?
PILGRIM: Thanks, Campbell, we look forward to it.
We'll be back with more of our panel.
Also why isn't our government doing more to help home owners struggling in the mortgage crisis? What middle class Americans are doing to keep their homes.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Joining me again are Ed Rollins, Michael Goodwin and Robert Zimmerman. We are right in the middle of talking about Obama and the Obama campaign, what they have to do. He's been really struggling with a couple of key groups of white working class voters, Catholics.
What does he need to do, Michael we were just discussing this in the break. What does he need to do to consolidate?
GOODWIN: I think the undertone of a lot the conversation that's been going on in the country is that he's having trouble with white working class voters because they're all racist. That's unfair and I think it's wrong. When you look at his coalition that he has assembled, young people, or liberals, upper income whites and African Americans, that is the same losing coalition of Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, Mondale. So really the problem for Obama and the white working class I believe primarily is not race.
It's class. It is elitism. It's the big government liberal. That's who he is to them and until he breaks that code - I think he needs to do a better job of talking to them about their issues. That's why I think Hillary Clinton for all of the nonsense about the gas tax thing did speak to people in way that Obama doesn't.
PILGRIM: You know Obama has been on a factory four for what the last week. When does this connect with ...
GOODWIN: Well but only a week. I mean it's not what he's been doing throughout most of the campaign.
ROLLINS: It's not believable. I mean it may very well be in the end but it's not believable today. It's kind of like he - I think his bitter speech was believable. I don't think getting out there, shaking hands, doing the kinds of things she's doing, she's out- campaigned him in the last six weeks. She's been a tremendous candidate. He has struggled. He gives a great speech as he did last night. He's not anywhere the candidate she is.
ZIMMERMAN: You know what's interesting. I think these gimmicks you see the candidates engage in, Barack Obama bowling or Hillary Clinton drinking shots at the bar or George Bush holding a book, I mean they're all fictitious imagery.
GOODWIN: Robert.
ZIMMERMAN: But the point here and I think Michael's column in the "New York Daily News" lays it out so well, he talks about the narrow constituency and what has to be done to build a broader coalition and I think Hillary Clinton makes a very compelling argument when she talks about the fact that she's been able to reach out to white and blue collar workers and engage them. And what concerns me is, if they don't start uniting and focusing on John McCain, we could lose that vote in the general election.
ROLLINS: The book George Bush was holding was a fiction book written by John Kerry, "My First 100 Days in the White House."
ZIMMERMAN: I'll give you that one, Ed.
PILGRIM: Way too funny. All right. This is Clinton voters in North Carolina and 45 percent said they would vote for Obama. 38 percent said they would just go Republican. Now Obama voters in North Carolina, 70 percent said that they would vote for Clinton, and very few would go Republican. What do you make of this and this speaks to the general election?
ROLLINS: Go back, North Carolina, go back to the black voters. Black African-American voters are going to vote Democrat. They always have. Whatever McCain does in the next six months. That's the way it is. These voters are not going to say, I'm disappointed, I'm going switch my long-time allegiance.
GOODWIN: I think the consistency last night was more than half of Clinton backers according to the exit polls in both Indiana and North Carolina said they would not vote for Obama if he were the nominee. Some would stay home, some would vote for McCain. That's a lot. Now it may change and I think if he does become - he will become the nominee I believe and the party will unite mostly around him. Those numbers will go down but still there's a problem there for Obama to attract the Clinton voters.
ZIMMERMAN: Remember, the Democrats lost Ohio by 2 percent in 2004 and in 2004 only won Pennsylvania by 2.5 percent. So while I think a lot of these numbers will come back, it's going to be very important for the nominee to work on building party unity. And you just don't do it by standing on the stage. You do it by getting out in the field.
PILGRIM: Michael Goodwin, Robert Zimmerman, Ed Rollins, thank you very much.
Still ahead, the war on the middle class. Why the efforts of Congress may be meaningless for home owners struggling to save their homes. We'll tell you why. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Congress tonight is debating a $300 billion mortgage package for middle class home owners struggling to save their homes. That plan however is useless to homeowners unless the lenders cooperate. And as Carrie Lee reports, so far, those lenders are not cooperating.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hundreds of thousands of home owners need help. If they can't rework the mortgages, they might not have a home at all. The house debated an aid package today and Democrats say, it's Washington's job to step in and help.
REP. DAVID SCOTT (D), GEORGIA: This country needs help. They're looking for their government to do what government is supposed to do. Help the country in a moment of greatest need. No greater need today than to help in the mortgage crisis.
LEE: President Bush and some Republicans call the plan a bailout for lenders, borrowers and investors.
REP. DOC HASTINGS (R), WASHINGTON: Why should American taxpayers be footing the bill for calculated mistakes make by others? Why should American taxpayers, who are making their mortgage payments each month or who are paying rent, have to come along and fund billions of dollars to give away grants in zero interest loans for those that speculated, gambled and lost? LEE: The White House vows to veto the bill and even if all sides can come together, borrowers could get a new mortgage only if their lender agrees to cut the amount that the home owner owes. But lately getting a lender to loan you money is harder than ever. The economic stimulus package passed earlier this year raised the ceiling on conventional loans from $417,000 to nearly 730,000. Since April, larger loans have been available at lower rates at least in theory. The reality is that lenders are reluctant to make the loons.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEE: So Kitty, more talk from lawmakers but with lenders having the last word, there's little chance that help will get to home owners anytime soon.
PILGRIM: It's just a disaster. Thanks very much, Carrie Lee.
Congress may be debating possible solutions to the housing crisis but so far there's been very little help for home owners. Many of the families struggling to save their homes were victims of fraudulent mortgage brokers. Now the Grant family is just one example and they're now fighting to save their home.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (voice-over): Joshua Grant runs several concession stands at a local minor league baseball stadium, a successful business but he was steered into a no document or no doc home loan he says he didn't understand and as the rate adjusted higher, he couldn't keep up with the payments.
JOSHUA GRANT, HOMEOWNER: We could afford to buy this house. It was not a house that we could not afford. I put down 10 percent. I made every mortgage payment on time for the first three years we were in this house.
When we got into trouble, I scrambled and I struggled. I went back to work full time. My wife went back to work full time to make ends meet. We did everything we could within our power to keep it going.
PILGRIM: Joshua worked with the consumer advocacy group, ACORN, after he could not re-negotiate his payments with the bank. He also called state organizations for help.
Connecticut Attorney General Blumenthal says his office has been aggressively pursuing illegal action against fraudulent mortgage lenders.
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, CONNECTICUT ATTORNEY GENERAL: These no-doc loans are very pervasive, unfortunately and tragically for the individuals involved and we are taking action against a number of the mortgage brokers and others involved in giving mortgages to people without proper documentation.
PILGRIM: In Senate hearings, consumer advocates said many homeowners were victims of misinformation.
IRA RHEINGOLD, NATL. ASS. OF CONSUMER ADVOCATES: People did not understand any of this. They had a chance to pursue the American dream. It was sold hard to them, and they were told they could buy the house of their dreams with this loan and they fell for it and they had no protection.
PILGRIM: Joshua says he now knows he probably could have qualified for a traditional loan, and has been fighting foreclosure for more than ten months.
GRANT: Listen, we owe the money. We want to pay it back. We weren't looking for any favors or any freebies.
PILGRIM: Now with the help of state and consumer groups, he is hopeful about finding a way to repay his mortgage.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (on-camera): Last week a report by state attorney's general and bank regulators criticized the president's Hope Now alliance, saying 70 percent of homeowners two months delinquent are not getting help.
We do have the results of the poll -- 97 percent of you believe that Congress should create stricter guidelines to ensure American workers are hired before foreign workers, whenever possible.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow.
For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York.
The "ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown starts right now -- Campbell.
