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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Senator Obama Close to Clinching the Democratic Presidential Nomination;
Aired June 03, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It is going to be an exciting historic night for all of us. You're going to want to stay put and watch.
In the meantime, let's continue our special coverage right now with LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. Lou is standing by at the CNN Election Center -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Wolf, this is when the real excitement starts, right now. The race for the Democratic nomination is at a turning point. Tonight will be a decision point.
Senator Obama appears to be on the verge of clinching the Democratic presidential nomination, but voters, apparently, have already had a belly full of much of the partisan blabber in both parties. Voters now want a real discussion of the real issues facing this country.
We'll have the latest polls on those issues, and we'll begin the discussion tonight from an independent perspective and we'll bring you the very latest from the presidential campaign trail, these final primary elections today, and much more, all of that straight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Tuesday, June 3. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Senator Clinton tonight appears to be on the verge of quitting the race for the Democratic presidential nomination. Senator Clinton today said she is now open to the idea of being Senator Obama's running mate. Her campaign said Senator Clinton would step aside were Obama to win enough delegates to secure the nomination.
Senator Obama tonight is only a few delegates short of clinching the Democratic presidential nomination, and this as voting ends in the final two primaries of this presidential campaign season in South Dakota and in Montana.
We'll have extensive coverage for you, and we begin tonight with Candy Crowley in New York, where Senator Clinton is about to speak with her supporters -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, one of the things you will not hear from Hillary Clinton tonight is "I quit" or "I concede." Everyone who I talked to who has talked to her today say that she is going to take her time with this, that tonight you will hear her talk to her supporters about where they have come from, about the issues that are important to her.
They understand what the reality is in the Clinton campaign, but she is going to take her time. I've been told very directly that she will not concede tonight, so what's the game plan here? First of all, she kind of wants to decide how she's going to do this.
I'm told she's very aware of the history of being the first woman to ever really get this far in terms of getting the Democratic nomination, so there is that. There is also -- there are still, believe it or not, some delegates being picked in some of these state conventions that are still going on.
They wonder what sort of signal it sends if she says, OK, I'm out of it. So not tonight, Lou, but certainly, they understand what's going on here. About the vice presidency, Hillary Clinton has been reaching out to supporters today that have been with her all along. That has, in fact, from the very beginning the New York delegation.
In a phone call, a conference call with them today, a number of them expressed the opinion that she needed to be on the ticket with Obama, that she would help bring in Latino voters that, sort of thing. Then, I'm told, Hillary Clinton gave kind of a long answer to that and at the end said "I would be open to that. I would be open to the number two slot."
So whether or not she would actually take it, whether or not he would offer it are two very big things, but I can tell you that Hillary Clinton has very passionate donors, she has very passionate backers, many of whom are already talking about starting up some sort of online effort to push Barack Obama to choose her. Very, very dicey place for Barack Obama to be just now seems to be in grasp for that nomination -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, Senator Obama will need to heal the Democratic Party, and what better way than to put Senator Clinton on that ticket as his vice presidential candidate, right?
CROWLEY: Well, I mean, that's certainly the thought. I mean, it certainly would bring unity to the party. The question is, if your main goal -- and it is this -- is to win the November election, does that bring him victory? Are there things in the Clinton background that have not been looked at, particularly since Bill Clinton has left office, who's donated to their libraries, are there potholes along the way to that?
I mean it is far too big of a question right now, both in terms of the electability and what she would bring to the ticket and what might be sort of the drawbacks of her. And I can tell you that while they do have Jim Johnson (ph) in place over at the Barack Obama campaign, who has started up that whole vice presidential search team, they are certainly not far enough along to be looking at anybody, saying, OK, this is the person, but Barack Obama has always said she'd be on anybody's short list. We've got a way to go.
DOBBS: Oh, absolutely. And what a fun trip it will be. Thank you very much, Candy Crowley. CROWLEY: Absolutely.
DOBBS: Former President Jimmy Carter, he is expected to endorse Senator Obama tonight. That endorsement could raise even more questions about Senator Obama's national security policies. Carter met with officials from the terrorist group Hamas in the Middle East in April, and in doing so, the former president defied the U.S. State Department, the Bush administration, and the state of Israel.
Senator Obama criticized Carter's meeting as well, but Senator Obama has said he is prepared to meet unconditionally with the leaders of countries that support Hamas, including Iran and Syria. Senator Obama today won the endorsement of more delegates. The numbers are changing fast. Here is the latest count.
These now, according to CNN's political unit, Obama is now only 10 superdelegates short of clinching the nomination, or, of course, winning those pledged delegates at stake in both Montana and South Dakota today. Senator Clinton is 205 delegates short of the nomination; 31 pledged delegates are at stake, of course, in tonight's primaries in South Dakota and Montana.
Nearly 180 superdelegates have yet to declare their intentions. Many of them, we are sure, we'll hear from over the course of this evening and the next 24 to 48 hours.
A Catholic priest who mocked Senator Clinton from the pulpit of Senator Obama's former church in Chicago has been suspended by the Catholic Church. The archbishop of Chicago removed Father Michael Pfleger from his post for two weeks. Father Pfleger said Senator Clinton shed tears on the campaign trail because, "a black man was stealing her show," as he put it.
Pfleger immediately protested his suspension, saying it's not the right decision. Well, Senator Obama tonight will hold a major rally in St. Paul, Minnesota, the site of the Republican convention to be held in September. Senator Obama is expected to look beyond these primaries now to the general election and the contest with Senator McCain.
Jessica Yellin has our report from St. Paul -- Jessica?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Lou.
Well, Barack Obama will have to deliver two messages in his speech tonight. The first is a very carefully crafted message about unifying the party. The second is the shape and form of the general election, his key, central argument to becoming president and his attack on John McCain.
Now, the second part of this is much easier for him. We have heard him articulate his attack on John McCain for quite some time now. Essentially, McCain is a rerun of the Bush years, of partisan, divisive politics. He's even -- Barack Obama -- come here to Minnesota, the site of the upcoming Republican convention, to mark his place and say that the Barack Obama campaign will win the blue states, will not let John McCain take any of the blue states, and yet, Barack Obama will go after more red states come the fall.
So this is a shot across the bow by appearing here today against the Republicans. But the trickier question tonight is how does he deliver this message of unifying the party? Clearly, he has to make an outreach to Senator Clinton, acknowledge her exceptional hard work. We expect him to do that.
There is an issue -- if he accepts the nomination or declares that he is the nominee tonight, there has to be a way and a shape in which he does it that is gracious to Senator Clinton, because there is an overriding concern in his campaign that he not risk even further alienating those among her supporters who are already angry about the process.
As we've reported, there has to be a significant amount of work to be done in the next days and weeks. Obama will have to be reaching out to Clinton's top financial backers, some of her staff, even, some of her key supporters to be gracious and suggest that he is thinking of ways to bring this party together.
So, that will be the very tricky balancing act that we're going to have to pay close attention to the words he uses and then, of course, a big celebration here. It's an enormous auditorium. Expect one of Obama's mega, mega events tonight -- Wolf -- sorry, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you, Jessica. I appreciate it.
Jessica Yellin from St. Paul, Minnesota, where, as Jessica just reported, Senator Obama's expected to be holding a major, major event this evening, as one might expect. Senator McCain tonight is also expected to launch his general election campaign, of course, directed squarely against, now, Senator Barack Obama.
Senator McCain will declare tonight he is the only candidate who can bring real change to Washington, D.C.
Joe Johns has our report now from the New Orleans suburb of Kenner, Louisiana, where Senator McCain will be making that speech tonight -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, that's right. He is expected to come here and say he is the agent of change in the race for the White House, but one thing that hasn't changed in politics is the need for money, and John McCain needs a lot of it.
In fact, he had a big fund-raiser, a private fund-raiser in New Orleans proper today before coming on down here to Kenner to give this speech later tonight. So what is in the speech? Obviously, he is expected to praise Senator Hillary Clinton for running a fine campaign and from what we can tell the rest of it is going to be all about contrast, contrast between him and Barack Obama.
One of the things that become pretty clear is that McCain is quite sick of being linked to George W. Bush in every single speech, it seems, that Obama gives. He's expected to use some pretty strong language in that saying that he believes it is essentially dishonest for the Obama campaign to do that.
And say that's just a way of avoiding talking about some of the other serious issues. He's also expected to talk a bit about the Iraq war and say that he was opposed to the so-called mismanagement of the war and point out that in his view there have been some improvements in the strategy in Iraq and said that in fact that Barack Obama has opposed any of the changes in Iraq that have brought about those improvements that McCain believes have occurred.
As far as the Obama campaign is concerned, they got way out in front of this sending out a lot of e-mails and talking to a lot of reporters saying just the bare fact that John McCain is talking about George Bush at this stage means Barack Obama has already won a round -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Joe Johns reporting from Kenner, Louisiana just outside of New Orleans.
We'll have much more for you this evening on the campaign that lies ahead. Senator Clinton tonight will be delivering a major speech -- we're going to hear a major speech a lot tonight -- to her supporters here in New York and we're standing by to bring you Senator Clinton's speech live right here on CNN.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senator Clinton tonight appears to be on the verge of quitting this race for the Democratic presidential nomination. For more on that and what we can expect I'm joined by three outstanding members of the very best political team on television, Democratic strategist James Carville -- he is also of course a Senator Hillary Clinton supporter -- good to have you with us, James -- Democratic strategist Donna Brazile -- Donna an undeclared, but not undecided delegate -- good to have you with us.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.
DOBBS: And David Gergen, senior CNN political analyst -- David also former presidential adviser to just a few presidents -- Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton I believe. Does that bring the list up-to- date?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You left out Garfield (ph)...
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: It's good to have you with us.
James, let me turn to you first. Senator Clinton has got some big choices to make and decisions to make. Where is she right now with her thinking? What lies ahead in your view?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well first of all, congratulations to Senator Obama, remarkable achievement (INAUDIBLE). I think that she is going to decide that she's going to do everything that she can to help the ticket. I think it obviously she'll have to do this in her own time. She's not going to, I suspect tonight. She'll acknowledge what the facts are and be very gracious and then put this together how she wants to do this, but I don't think that an announcement -- the fact that an endorsement and everything is going to come tonight.
This is going to take time. She's got to notify people. She's got to call people. She's got a lot of work to do and there's a lot of work to be done here.
DOBBS: A lot of work to be done and a lot of peculiar reporting today, if I may say. The Associated Press early on saying perhaps with some help from outside agencies that they expected Senator Clinton to basically concede tonight and congratulate Senator Obama. Terry McAuliffe, the campaign chairman, saying that's just absolutely categorically not true.
CARVILLE: What I think -- first of all, I think people understand a presidential campaign, particularly one like this is not a light switch. You just don't turn it on and off. She's a very methodical person. I'm sure she'll want to call people.
She'll want to talk to her people. She's going to have to and I think she'll help the ticket, but a lot of people, they're going to take, as I said earlier today, there are going to be a lot of people (INAUDIBLE). This is not going to be -- this is not going to be an easy thing and she's going to need a lot of help from Senator Obama to get this done also. She's not going to be able to do it by herself.
DOBBS: There are a few of her supporters probably wishing that you had used a different metaphor rather than...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: People dug in...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I called my wife. She's such a Republican. I call her Sergeant (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: She's like the guy (INAUDIBLE).
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: 1964, hey you know come out. Damn, the thing is over, you know. I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Now you're in trouble with not only a few supporters of Senator Clinton, but also at home perhaps...
CARVILLE: (INAUDIBLE)
DOBBS: Donna Brazile, the open issue here is what does Senator Obama do? At what point does he have to make a decision he's -- because James is exactly right, weathering caves, bunkers, fox holes, some people are dug in. The rift is profound and it's real in this party no matter how anybody wants to gloss over it. What does Senator Obama do now?
BRAZILE: First of all, let's hope that he celebrates this important moment in the party's history and the country's history. It is a historic moment. It's been a marathon race. We have two excellent exceptional candidates in a very historic year, a record turnout and I'm excited to see this moment, and I think Senator Obama will reach out to Senator Clinton, and James is absolutely right, you don't turn off a campaign.
She has over 1,900 delegates. There are still at-large delegates to be decided, and people who are still competing to become delegates to go to the convention, so tonight begins a different phase of the campaign and I'm sure at the end of the day Senator Clinton and Senator Obama will sit down at that wonderful table and the Democratic Party and they will break bread.
DOBBS: All right, David, a little higher specificity level, if you would.
GERGEN: Listen, even as they celebrate an historic night, there's a lot of politics to be done here tonight and the next few days, and I think the question becomes several things -- does she swing behind Senator Obama quickly or does this get drawn out? Does she want to negotiate with him over some issues, such as health care and what he's going to commit to, and does that get drawn out?
Does she want to negotiate over what her role might be? Will people on her side put pressure on him to take her as vice president or offer that? In his -- from his point of view, this has to be done very definitely, because he has to be both strong -- he can't appear to be sort of just sort of capitulating to whatever demand she sort of makes or her people make. At the same time, he's got to be magnanimous.
DOBBS: Gracious wouldn't be bad here, would it?
GERGEN: Churchill said in victory magnanimity.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Well David Gergen, Donna Brazile, James Carville, we're going to be back with all three of you. We appreciate your forbearance. We're going to be looking forward to talking with you throughout the evening and taking both your insight and counsel as we go through this historic evening.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: But first, we want to bring you up-to-date with our poll. There's no escaping our polls. Do you believe Senator Barack Obama should invite Senator Hillary Clinton to join him on the Democratic presidential ticket? Yes or no. We'd love to hear from you on this, the dream ticket. Well, it's time to dream -- or is it?
Stay with us. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later. And we'll be talking with our panel here later as we bring you the very latest on this final presidential primary Tuesday.
Up next, results from our exit polls are just coming in with some surprising results in both Montana and South Dakota. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senior political analyst Bill Schneider has now the latest results of those exit polls of voters in South Dakota that are just coming in, and among the questions in that exit polling, how the economy affected your vote. Which candidate would best handle the war in Iraq?
Clinton supporters were also asked who they planned to vote for in November. Here we
go. Bill Schneider joins us now with those surprising results -- Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Lou, two candidates, two issues, and each one of them grabbed one of those issues. We interviewed the Democrats today voting in South Dakota and we asked them what was the top issue on your mind -- the number one issue among those Democrats the economy. And how did they vote?
That was Clinton's issue; 58 percent for Clinton; 42 percent for Obama. We've seen that in earlier primaries. The economy pays off for Hillary Clinton. That's one of the reasons she's done so well, that's issue number one. But the Iraq war is also a big issue in South Dakota and all these other Democratic states, and that was an issue where those who said it was their top concern voted for Barack Obama by an even bigger margin; 61 to 39.
Keep in mind, these Democrats are overwhelmingly anti-war voters, some 90 percent of them are opposed to the war in Iraq, and they see Barack Obama as having the edge on the anti-war issue because of his criticism of Hillary Clinton for having voted in 2002 to authorize the war. Well, how deep is this division in the end?
Will the Clinton voters, at least in this state, vote for Barack Obama or John McCain if that's their choice for president as it appears to be? We asked them, and here's the answer we got; 61 percent say that they would stick with the party and vote for Barack Obama, just 16 percent for John McCain. Now, that actually is encouraging, because in some of the early primaries, feelings had gotten a bit bitter, and most Democrats -- most Clinton supporters said they would not vote for Barack Obama, but here, as you can see, over 60 percent of them say they'll stick with Obama; 17 percent say they wouldn't vote.
We'll see if that persists. They're kind of annoyed right now. But at the moment, it looks pretty good for Barack Obama to heal the wound in the party -- Lou?
DOBBS: And wounds there are a plenty so a lot of healing necessary.
Thank you very much, Bill Schneider.
Let's take a quick look now at some of your thoughts.
Ernie in Florida wrote in to say: "Dear Lou, you asked if Florida voters are happy about the Democratic National Committee decision. Let's just say the party's name stands for values that are opposite to its actions. I'm voting Independent right on down the line. Is there a way to force a party to change its name? Democratic no longer fits."
Louis in Colorado said: "Lou, the DNC has assured my vote. I'm registering as an Independent and voting for someone who is not appointed by a committee. I didn't think it possible for the Democrats to screw up another election. I was wrong."
And Rosario in Florida: "I'm a life-long Democrat, however, as of today I can no longer support the undemocratic direction of this party. I suggest that Hillary Clinton switch affiliation to the Independent Party, because that's what I'm going to do tomorrow morning. Lou, please keep up the good work. We need you."
And we love hearing from you. Send your thoughts at loudobbs.com and a reminder to join me on the radio Monday through Friday, "The Lou Dobbs Show."
Tomorrow we'll be talking, what else, politics, with some of the country's top strategists, including Robert Zimmerman, Ed Rollins, Pat Choate, economist and he was Ross Perot's economic adviser, he will be joining me to discuss what it means to be an Independent these days. Go to loudobbsradio.com to get the local listings for "The Lou Dobbs Radio Show." We thank you for doing that.
And up next here, the race for the Democratic presidential nomination is concluding. Senator Obama, Senator McCain looking forward to the next stage of this campaign and the general election. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senator Obama has just picked up three more delegates. CNN is polling superdelegates and we are now told that he is just seven delegates short of clinching the Democratic presidential nomination. So, this is quite an evening for Senator Obama.
I'm joined once again by Democratic strategist James Carville -- James also a Senator Clinton supporter of course -- and Democratic strategist Donna Brazile -- Donna an undeclared superdelegate -- and returning CNN senior political analyst David Gergen, also former presidential adviser to Presidents Ford, Reagan, Nixon, and Clinton, not necessarily in that order. David, let's begin with you.
We were just talking -- I just did talk to Donna and to James about this issue, the dream ticket was an idea floated some time ago, the call is for that again, but I think it's starting to emanate now from people who are concerned about whether or not this party can be brought together without it. What do you think?
GERGEN: I think that the reasons for doing the dream ticket have changed. I do not -- because of the divisions in the party have deepened and they have hardened and because he has not exactly even finished with a triumphant flourish. Even tonight we're not sure he's going to win both of these states.
DOBBS: Right.
GERGEN: It looks like he needs more help than he needed six or eight weeks ago. He's got to notch up his campaign if he's going to take John McCain on this thing. So I think there are more compelling reasons to think about bringing Hillary Clinton in as vice president, but I think there's some really hard questions about what do you do after you win? How do you divide up the oval. office? Those are some tough questions.
DOBBS: Donna, what are your instincts, what are your thoughts on this very issue? Because as David says, I mean, we're watching Senator Obama even if he were to win these contests tonight, he's effectively limping in here in these final six contests, which is unusual for the front-runner, the presumptive part party. In the motions that are so strong -- and I know, as I said, everybody wants to talk about how wonderful and how, sing "Kumbaya." It just ain't happening.
BRAZILE: First of all, Senator Obama, I'm sure once he secures the nomination, will reach out to Senator Clinton. They talked the other night before the Puerto Rico results came. The two of them, they are colleagues in the United States Senate. He will reach out to her. I don't know what role Senator Clinton will play --
DOBBS: Does it make sense for you her to be on the vice presidential ticket?
BRAZILE: You know Lou, I think it's premature to put the horse before the cart until we have a nominee and give them an opportunity to have that conversation. Is she qualified to be vice president? Absolutely. She's qualified to be president, just like Senator Obama, but I think all of this conversation about, you know, will she or will she not be vice president, that is up to those two individuals to decide.
DOBBS: Sure, I understand --
BRAZILE: There's a lot of healing work that must go on, that is not just based on Senator Obama and Senator Clinton talking
DOBBS: So are you saying you don't think it would be a significantly, if not a determinant act to heal the Democratic Party to put her on the vice presidential slot?
BRAZILE: Lou, normally, we have a conversation about the vice presidential slot some time in late July. Jim Johnson, who is a very prominent --
DOBBS: I'm jumping the gun here, come with me on that.
BRAZILE: Can you some suspense so James and I and David can come back a couple of months from now. I'm going to miss you after tonight, Lou.
DOBBS: Donna, you don't have to miss me. We'll stick together here. James, what are your thoughts?
CARVILLE: Again, my thoughts are that, there are divisions in the Democratic Party. There's a consequence to losing the nomination. And there's also a consequence to winning the nomination by one tenth of 1 percent or whatever it is.
Now, the one thing is, is that Democrats are united in one thing, we are not Republicans, all right? So there's a strong --
DOBBS: I'm with you so far.
CARVILLE: You're with me so far. And Senator Clinton is going to want to bring her people on. She's going to want to support this ticket; she is going to help this ticket. She is going to take -- she's going to need some time and some help from Senator Obama.
Hey, I don't necessarily think she needs the vice presidency to do that, but it's going to require some work. They've got to go out -- I mean, so far, his showing in some of these states has been sort of less than stellar. They're going to have to like change their strategy to get some of these people who voted for Senator Clinton -- it's not just going to be that Senator Clinton's going to go out and say let's all get behind Senator Obama.
Senator Obama will have to campaign differently to get these people, too. There's some real work to be done here. I think they can do it, I think she wants to do it. I think she will, but it's going to be a joint effort between the two of them.
BRAZILE: And I would hope that in addition to Senator Clinton, and of course, Senator Obama, that former President Bill Clinton, he still is very important to rebuilding and repairing the breach, so to speak. So this is a party effort. This is not just Senator Clinton and Senator Obama. It's the entire Democratic Party wanting to come together.
GERGEN: At the end of the day, this woman and her husband have worked their hearts out for this very powerful job, and they're going to have to -- and it's going to be very painful for her to lose. You know, no question --
DOBBS: There's never been a closer primary contest. GERGEN: Yes, exactly, and she's had this massive number of people -- she's won the second half of this ball game. You know, she lost the first half, he won the first half, she won the second half. And so she's come strongly out of this. And so she's going to have to figure out, what do I do with the rest of my life? If you've been thinking about this for a long time and want to do this, what do I do with the rest of my life?
And he's going to talk to her about this, do you want to be vice president? Is that a good place for you to be? Then Obama's got to figure out, do I want her as my vice president, and what about Bill? This is unprecedented drama unfolding in front of us.
DOBBS: How about this question and I'd love to get each of your reactions, we now know thanks to the exit polls that Bill Schneider and Soledad O'Brien bring to us each year, each election evening, each primary evening, we know exactly how things are breaking. So do these candidates' campaigns. We know where Senator Clinton's strong. We know where Senator Obama's strong. We know who their appeal is.
We don't have this kind of information on any other person who would be vice president to join Senator Obama. Why would that not irrespective of what Senator Clinton wants, why in the world would Senator Obama not want it, because that brings a powerful combination, one would think, that would be mighty hard to resist?
CARVILLE: You know, it could be any number of reasons, you know what I mean. I mean, you're right, Jim Johnson is in this process. There may be ways to unite the party. Hey, I don't know that Senator Clinton would want to be vice president, either.
I mean and it may not be in either one of their best interests it may not be in the best interests of the party. I'm not saying one way or the other. I mean, I don't blame you for asking the question, but you can't --
DOBBS: Thank goodness --
CARVILLE: Blame me for saying I don't know, I'm not sure. But I do know this. It is going to take an enormous amount of work on both of their part -- and I think Senator Clinton is going to do everything she can to help the ticket, and I think if she does, she's going to want to bring as many of her people along as possible. There are some people out there who -- and I think some justifiably -- I have said before, I thought it was a terrible mistake that Obama campaigned to falsely push this so-called assassination story. The bitterness runs deep --
BRAZILE: They did not, they did not --
CARVILLE: Again, I'm not --
BRAZILE: One press release.
CARVILLE: Again, they made statements, but I'm not -- this was very detrimental. Very detrimental. GERGEN: Does she want something on substance, does she want a commitment from him on health care? When Bill Clinton campaigned in 1992, she had very strong views. She's going to have strong views here.
CARVILLE: She's going to want this. People who are voting economic issues are voting for her overwhelmingly.
DOBBS: Right.
CARVILLE: What she wants to do is bring these people along, all right? And I think that she is going to want to like talk to Senator Obama about this, because it is absolutely -- she doesn't want to endorse him and then have --
GERGEN: What does she want in exchange?
DOBBS: She's talking point to me is, Senator Obama now knows he has a very difficult path ahead of him to win blue-collar workers, no electorate, and we know that is irrespective of what she wants, he should want to win the election, it seems to me, and he, seems to me, entertain her.
BRAZILE: He spent the first half of this election season reaching out to those voters, capturing their hearts, winning them over --
DOBBS: Well, he didn't capture their hearts.
BRAZILE: He didn't get their votes, he was able to get their support.
DOBBS: I understand, I understand --
BRAZILE: I mean, we're making a big mountain out of nothing, I mean --
DOBBS: No, no, no.
BRAZILE: He will appeal to them based on pocketbook issues, based on --
DOBBS: That's a political speech and I understand it, but it doesn't jive with the demographic --
BRAZILE: You also have a political perspective.
GERGEN: From my perspective, he's in the unusual position where he may need her more than she needs him.
DOBBS: Yes.
BRAZILE: Absolutely not --
CARVILLE: I agree. DOBBS: We're going to leave it there because we're out of time, and we'll decide here during the commercial break, James, Donna, Dave and I will decide the likely list of vice presidential candidates.
Still ahead here, we'll have more on those exit polls. What independently minded voters are thinking about the issues and the candidates, and Senator Obama needs just now seven more delegates to clinch his party's presidential nomination.
More than 170 superdelegates remain undeclared. One of those superdelegates is James Roosevelt, Jr. He'll join me here next.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My next guest is an undeclared Democratic superdelegate. He is also the co-chair of the Democratic National Committee's Rules and Bylaws Committee. That may sound familiar. That's the committee, of course, making the determination about Michigan and Florida's delegates, giving them a half a vote, the best decision to deal with a flawed process.
James Roosevelt joins me from Newton, Massachusetts.
James, good to have you with us.
JAMES ROOSEVELT, CO-CHAIR, DNC RULES CMTE.: Good to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: This is a historic evening. It now appears for your party, Senator Barack Obama about to clinch the nomination by our CNN political unit's count. He is now seven -- now six, excuse me, as we update these -- six delegates short of the number of delegates, pledged and superdelegates, to win the nomination.
So it is -- and by the way, we should be very clear, that does not include any of the pledged delegates at stake in South Dakota and Montana's primary elections being held today. And those polls will close at 9:00 -- 10:00 tonight, of course, and CNN, we will be broadcasting developments going through the exit polls throughout the evening here. We'll have those results for you as soon as those polls close.
James, let's talk first about the rules committee. You probably have -- that decision, a flawed process, the best result possible. Are you comfortable that you're not going to lose significant numbers of voters in both Michigan and Florida as a result of that decision?
ROOSEVELT: I think the emotions are still very high, Lou, in both campaigns, so I do think that there are voters who right now are not happy with the decision, even though the Florida vote was unanimous and the Michigan vote was 19-8, meaning a lot of Clinton supporters joined in that vote.
DOBBS: Sure. There were 13, as I understand it, 13 superdelegates there, and the result was five of them moved over to cast that vote, is that correct?
ROOSEVELT: That's correct.
DOBBS: So, it means that at least at the rules committee level, you feel like you achieved some, I would call it coalescing of purpose there. What is it going to take to bring the party itself together, these divisions that you acknowledge exist, which are very clearly here, just talking with James Carville, Donna Brazile and David Gergen, they're manifesting themselves.
ROOSEVELT: I think as my friends James, Donna, and David said, it's going to require the efforts of both candidates to bring this party together. Senator Obama, if he is indeed the nominee later tonight, will need to reach out, and Senator Clinton, I am convinced, will do everything she can, once it is clear that there is a decision here, to bring victory for the Democratic candidate in November.
DOBBS: James, thank you very much for being with us, and we wish you all the best.
James Roosevelt, Jr., the head of the Democratic Rules Committee.
Up next here, Senator Barack Obama, now he is six delegates short of clinching the Democratic presidential nomination. We'll have the very latest for you on the exit polls from the final Democratic primaries of this presidential primary season.
Find out next if voters say Senator Obama should choose Senator Clinton as his running mate. Now, that's an intriguing question. Why didn't I think of that?
Stay with us. We'll be back with that and more.
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DOBBS: We want to update you very quickly on where Senator Obama stands in his quest for the Democratic presidential nomination. At this hour, by CNN political unit's calculation and polling, he now stands just six delegates short of clinching the presidential nomination. And we want to point out, again, that that does not, of course, include any of the pledged delegates at stake in either South Dakota or Montana.
Well, what do voters in South Dakota think about the idea of Senator Clinton as Senator Obama's running mate? For that and a great deal more, we turn now to Bill Schneider -- Bill?
SCHNEIDER: Lou, well, we asked the voters in South Dakota what do they think about this process, this long primary season? Has it energized the party or has it divided the party? And they like it, they really like it! Here's the answer -- 55 percent say they think it's energized the party, 39 percent believe it's divided the party.
Now, do the voters, the Democrats in South Dakota, think Obama should pick Hillary Clinton as his running mate? She said she'd be available, and they think, yes, that would be a good idea. 55 percent to 41 percent. But of greater relevance, perhaps, do the Obama voters think he should pick Clinton as his running mate? And the Obama voters right now, they say no. They don't think it's a wonderful idea, though 40 percent of them are at least open to it, but they're not really crazy about this idea.
You mentioned six delegates short. My guess is that Mr. Obama would like to make this primary season a little bit longer. He probably doesn't want to clinch the nomination until the votes come in, in at least one of these states, so that the voters will put him over the top, not the superdelegates -- Lou.
DOBBS: All right. Perhaps an artifice but one that's understandable, and we'll await that development and see what happens.
Thank you very much, Bill Schneider.
A reminder now to vote in our poll here: Do you believe Senator Obama should invite Senator Clinton to join him on the Democratic presidential ticket?
We'd like to hear from you on this issue. Yes or no?
Cast your vote on loudobbs.com. We'll have the results at the end of the broadcast.
Up next, I'll be joined by the very three best talk show hosts in this entire country. We'll be talking about Senator Obama, Senator Clinton. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Well, joining me now for more on what radio listeners around the country are saying about this presidential contest, here in the CNN Election Center with me is Joe Madison, XM Radio. Good to have you with us.
JOE MADISON, XM RADIO: Thank you.
DOBBS: And in Chicago, Steve Cochran, WGN Radio. This broadcast also being simulcast over at WGN and vice versa. Steve, good to see you.
STEVE COCHRAN, WGN RADIO: Nice to see you.
DOBBS: From Los Angeles, Doug McIntyre, KABC radio. Also the writer, producer, and director of "Trying to Get Good" the jazz odyssey of Jack Sheldon, and the movie is currently playing at the crest theater in Los Angeles.
COCHRAN: Wow!
DOBBS: I'm shameless in flogging this --
COCHRAN: What a show-off! Wow, very nice.
DOBBS: Let me turn to you first, Joe, because you're nice enough to be in the studio with me. What kind of night is this? Barack Obama certain to clinch the Democratic presidential nomination.
MADISON: Well, let me tell you how I feel. Donna Brazile and I were talking afterwards, clearly, historical is the word, and we can't use that enough.
DOBBS: Right.
MADISON: This is amazing, that you have this event taking place. I suspect that you probably are going to hear one of the finest political speeches in Minneapolis that we've heard in a long time from Barack Obama. I think that's what you're going to hear. Now the super bowl begins, preparation for the super bowl, and we've got to get real serious about this, and I don't think it's going to be like the primary, because the choices are so distinctively different. I'm hoping that the pundits, the commentators, and the news reporters will ask the substantive questions and not a lot of gimmickry that we saw during the primaries.
DOBBS: Let me turn that around just a little bit.
MADISON: All right.
DOBBS: Let's hope that Senator Obama --
MADISON: And I hope you and Obama get over each other.
DOBBS: Well, I'm willing to try. We'll meet him halfway, but it's going to take a little work on other parts, I'm sure. But let's hear from these candidates, whether it's Senator Obama, whether it's Senator McCain. The dance is only beginning, and the way in which these candidates, all three of them, principal candidates, have avoided issues is disgusting --
MADISON: Can't do it now, though.
DOBBS: I'm sorry?
MADISON: They can't avoid it now.
DOBBS: Well, they can't, they'd better not try.
COCHRAN: And the sad thing is they can avoid it unless the American voting population continues to say no, you can't. Because it's not up to the reporters and media and not up to us who have talk shows to make sure they're covering the issues, it's the people who are going to go out and vote or maybe aren't going to vote, because the voting population has to step up and say -- by the way, I almost always agree with joke and I certainly agree tonight, tonight's a night for history.
But the Democrats have a problem going forward. This is not a huge mandate. This is a close race, or we wouldn't still be talking about it, and they've got to figure out how they're going to get all the Hillary folks to vote. I don't think any of them are going to vote for McCain, but I'm not sure all of them will come out to vote and no vote is a problem. MADISON: That's true. That's true.
DOBBS: And the truth is, the Republicans have got a little bit of an issue themselves. This --
COCHRAN: Oh, they've got a lot of issues, Lou.
DOBBS: This fellow McCain is not exactly endeared himself to the right wing, the base of the party. Doug, what do you think, is that going to work?
DOUG MCINTYRE, KABC IN LOS ANGELES: Well, no. I think that it's an amazing set of circumstances that John McCain just seems to be the survivor. He just hung around long enough until everyone else in the Republicans kind of defeated themselves, essentially.
But I agree with Joe on the history tonight. I think that tonight represents really the final punctuation mark on Jim Crow, on separate but unequal. I think it's symbolically very significant for America. But I also think that this division in the Democratic Party is over rated.
I think that the campaign and the substantive difference between what Barack Obama represents and advocates and John McCain represents and ad will unify the Democratic Party. They've got a hunger to have the White House back, and I think that people will swallow whatever animosities they do and then come together to try to get the Republicans out of the White House.
COCHRAN: Well, great story lines. You've got youth versus age, you've got experience versus alleged inexperience. So it's going to be a very good summer, I think, for all of us who are political junkies and follow this.
And Lou, I'll tell you, I'm expecting at any moment Dennis Kucinich to come in and announce for 12, so --
MADISON: I remember when you said youth versus age, I remember Coleman Young, the late mayor of Detroit once said to me, Joe, I'm going to tell you something, old age and treachery will always outdo youth and inexperience any day. So be careful!
COCHRAN: That's not a great slogan, though, old age and treachery. It might be an honest sign. I don't know that it works.
MADISON: But that's Coleman Young. It's not like he was politically correct.
DOBBS: One thing he was as political, though.
MADISON: He was political, that's right.
DOBBS: He knew exactly what he was talking about.
MADISON: That's right. DOBBS: So as we move in this historic night, do you think the Democratic Party has got the stuff to go for a double slice of history, add a woman to the ticket?
MADISON: No. I'm going to tell you, I spent two hours today on my show at XM, and I'm here to tell you, 99 percent of my callers said don't do it, and here --
DOBBS: Don't you dare do it!
MADISON: And here's the line -- I hate to use this -- don't send me the e-mails. If she becomes the running mate, he'd better hire a food taster. I mean, I know I'm going to get the e-mails.
DOBBS: You're going to get the e-mails.
MADISON: But they're saying don't do it.
COCHRAN: But it's been said before, but I don't think Obama will do it --
MADISON: I don't, either.
COCHRAN: -- Unless it's necessary, and it may become politically necessary. He's got a lot of problems to clear up. The Hispanic vote is a huge issue.
MADISON: Right.
COCHRAN: Obviously, the blue-collar vote. And if it gets to a point where it needs to happen, and the tipping point will have to be pretty soon --
MADISON: And she's got $20 million --
COCHRAN: It's going to be interesting to see.
DOBBS: I've got to wrap this up. I wish we could go longer. Doug McIntyre, great to see you. We'll be at your movie.
All right, Doug McIntyre, KABC. Joe Madison, XM Radio, WGN's Steve Cochran.
COCHRAN: Thank you, buddy.
DOBBS: Thank you. You three are the greatest. We appreciate it.
And our poll results tonight, 80 percent of you saying -- I'm sorry, 60 percent of you saying you don't believe Senator Obama should invite Senator Clinton to join him on the Democratic presidential ticket. The vote's in, the decision is task.
Stay tuned. CNN's election coverage continues right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
