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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Energy Showdown; Opinion Polls Suggest Obama has the Lead over McCain; Border Injustice; Limits on Illegal Alien Crackdown

Aired June 25, 2008 - 19:00   ET


LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, the Mexican government has released the suspected killer of one of our border patrol agents just five months after he was put in custody. We'll have that exclusive report here.
And tonight, outrage after pro-amnesty members of Congress try to cut back a federal program, a program designed to help state and local governments fight against illegal immigration. We'll have that report.

And tonight, one community trying to stop corporate elitists from firing middle class Americans and replacing them with cheaper foreign workers. We'll have that story, all of that, all the day's news and much more tonight with an independent perspective straight ahead.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, June 25. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.

Senators McCain and Obama today attacking one another's energy proposals and policies with both candidates claiming to have all of the answers. McCain promising energy independence by 2025, Obama promising $150 billion investment in alternative energy sources. Both candidates again making declarations that are long on rhetoric, short on specifics, and again long on potential costs.

Their positions reflecting projected sharp ideological differences that leave Independent voters struggling to find answers in their fight to pay soaring fuel bills.

We have extensive coverage tonight of this presidential campaign and we begin with Dana Bash in Washington -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, McCain has been pushing energy related ideas for nearly two weeks. Today, he labeled those proposals, the Lexington Project, named for a Revolutionary War site. It's intended as a simple way to communicate to voters that he's leading.


BASH (voice-over): A campaign pledge on a make or break issue for voters, energy.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In a world of hostile and unstable suppliers of oil, this nation will achieve strategic independence by the year 2025.

BASH: A lofty goal aimed at invoking John F. Kennedy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of landing a man on the moon...

BASH: And some Harry Truman for good measure.

MCCAIN: Three decades of partisan paralysis on energy security is enough. Since I'm not president, I cannot say the buck stops here. But I will say that it must stop now.

BASH: But beyond the snappy sound bites, many of the ways John McCain wants to wean America from oil are controversial, take nuclear energy.

MCCAIN: I will set this nation on a course to building 45 new reactors by the year 2030.

BASH: That's a promise voters he was speaking to in Nevada are weary of because of Congress' plan to store nuclear waste in their state, Yucca Mountain, something McCain has supported.

MCCAIN: We will need to solve complex problems of moving and storing materials that will always need safe guarding. We'll need to do all these things and do them right.

BASH: But McCain's goal was as much about tone as substance, an attempt to show voters looking for action on high gas prices that he's their candidate, not Barack Obama, whom his campaign is labeling "Dr. No."

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we need right now are not appealing but meaningless gimmicks.

BASH: Obama says he wants to spend $150 billion on developing alternative energy. Aides insist he's not saying no to new ideas, just most of McCain's, especially lifting the ban on offshore drilling.

OBAMA: And by the time the drilling is fully under way in 20 years, our own Department of Energy says the defect on gas prices will be quote, "insignificant."


BASH: Now as for McCain, he talked in sharp tones today about the kind of things he knows voters want to hear, that special interests and decades of deadlock in Washington have led to the current energy crisis. Now McCain's challenge, though, is of course that he's been in Congress for nearly three decades and voted against legislation promoting exactly the kind of alternative fuels that he's pushing now. Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you very much. Dana Bash.

Well as Dana just reported, Senator McCain wants more nuclear reactors built in this country. There are now 104 nuclear reactors at 66 power plants. Those reactors generate just about 19 percent of our electricity. That's about as much as the electricity used in California, Texas, and New York. No nuclear power plants have been built since the 1970s.

The last construction permit for a new reactor in this country was issued in 1978. A new government report today highlighting the stale of our energy crisis and the rest of the world. The Energy Information Administration says world energy demand will grow by 50 percent over the next 20 years.

The latest opinion poll suggests Senator Obama with a clear lead over Senator McCain. Two of the polls giving Obama a double-digit lead over McCain, but the poll numbers don't mean Obama is assured of a convincing victory in November, far from it. In point of fact, the Gallup tracking poll shows McCain and Obama absolutely tied.

Bill Schneider has our report.



WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Five national polls all taking within the last 10 days show Barack Obama leading John McCain, the average, Obama, 48, McCain, 40, an eight-point lead. Two of the polls give Obama a double-digit lead. How much can we rely on polls taken four months before the election?

We looked at the June Gallup polls in the last 14 presidential elections going back to 1952. In 10 of those elections, the June polls actually forecast the election result. In 2004, for example, the June Gallup poll had George W. Bush leading John Kerry by one. Bush ended up beating Kerry by three. That's pretty close.

What about the four elections the June polls got wrong? We detected a pattern there. Take 1960. In June 1960, John F. Kennedy was 10 points ahead of Richard Nixon. Kennedy ended up winning by less than half a percent. Why was 1960 so close? Because President Eisenhower, the Republican incumbent, was very popular, 59 percent job approval. That helped his vice president nearly overtake the Democrat.

The most famous exception, when the June polls were way off, was 1988. In June, Michael Dukakis was leading George Bush by 14 points. Bush ended up winning by seven. The conventional wisdom is that Dukakis lost because the Republicans ran a tough negative campaign that discredited him. But here is something else to consider. President Reagan had a 51 percent job approval rating. That had a lot to do with carrying his vice president to victory.


SCHNEIDER: The lesson here is don't just watch the horse race polls. Also watch the president's job ratings even though he's not running. That's more bad news for John McCain. The latest Gallup/"USA Today" poll gives President Bush a 28 percent approval rating. That's worse than bad. It's about the lowest approval rating ever recorded.

Is there any hope for McCain? Well maybe. McCain is not the incumbent president nor is he the incumbent vice president, and in fact this is the first election in 56 years when neither one of them is running. McCain's message has to be, I'm not Bush. Obama's message is, you are, too -- Lou.

DOBBS: And while we're at such a high level of discourse between these two candidates, let's try to put into context a couple of other elements. And that is you mentioned President Bush's abysmal approval rating, which by the way still is not lower than that of unbelievably Harry Truman.


DOBBS: But nonetheless, the approval rating for Congress, the Democratic Congress, is even lower than for the Republican Congress, that it succeeded, and the lowest in congressional history.

SCHNEIDER: That's exactly right. Voters are angry at everybody. They're angry, basically, at Washington. Of course this is a presidential election. In a presidential election people focus on the performance of the incumbent president. The question is will they hold John McCain somehow to account for the performance of the Republican president? That's unusual. Imagine if Dick Cheney were running, how much trouble he'd be in? In a normal election he would be running.

DOBBS: And I think with the country, we're going to have a difficult enough task in front of us, the body politic to discern between these two candidates without adding a third pretend candidate. Let me ask you other question, Bill, and that is the most recent Gallup tracking poll shows Obama and McCain absolutely tied. What are we to make of that?

SCHNEIDER: Well, a tracking poll is by its very nature more erratic. We used to do them in '96, 2000 we did tracking polls. They're very erratic compared to other polls. They have a lot of sources of variability. We do include the tracking poll, however, with our poll of polls, so with eight-point margin, we included the Gallup tracking poll. It's a valid poll. It just is more variable than other polls...


SCHNEIDER: ... so we prefer the poll of polls.

DOBBS: More variable say than that "Newsweek" 15-point poll?

SCHNEIDER: Yes. Yes, what you see is "Newsweek "is at the high end, the Gallup is at the low end, the other polls in between, so as long as it's a reliable poll we have five of them. We averaged it and got an eight-point lead.

DOBBS: You know what? This doesn't sound like science to me, but so be it.

Thank you very much, Bill Schneider.


DOBBS: Well Senator Obama facing strong criticism tonight from an unexpected corner, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi saying Obama strongly supports Israel because Obama is afraid of being assassinated by Israel's intelligence service Massad. Gaddafi also said Senator Obama is trying to appease Jews and Israel. Gaddafi's accusations just the latest of what is a list of considerable, a considerable number of bizarre and unpredictable statements by the Libyan leader just over the past three decades.

Well back on the campaign trail, Senator Obama today said he wants Senator Clinton to help him as much as possible, and Obama said Clinton will be what he called what an extraordinary surrogate for him. He also said he wants former President Bill Clinton involved, as he put it.

Both Obama and Clinton, Senator Clinton will make their first joint appearance Friday in the town of Unity in New Hampshire.

Get it -- unity?

And Senator Clinton of course won the support of some 18 million voters during the Democratic primary, but her official position in the Senate doesn't reflect that tremendous voter support. Senator Clinton ranks number 36 out of the 49 Democrats in the Senate. In the Senate as a whole, Senator Clinton is 68 in seniority out of 100 senators.

Well let's turn now to the war in Iraq, insurgents killing four more of our troops. Eight of our troops have been killed in Iraq since Monday; 26 of our troops killed so far this month; 4,110 of our troops killed since the war began; 30,275 of our troops wounded; 13,458 of them seriously.

Up next here, seething anger after the government of Mexico frees the suspected killer of a U.S. border patrol agent. We'll have that exclusive report here tonight.

And this country's brewing industry could be dominated by foreigners if a European company wins a critical take-over battle. We'll tell you how that's going. We'll be right back.


DOBBS: Well, our border patrol agents are often asked to do thankless work for this country, and there is considerable outrage tonight among our border patrol agents and other Americans who are concerned about the security of this country and the rampant violence raging along our border with Mexico.

LOU DOBBS TONIGHT has learned exclusively that the suspected killer of a U.S. border patrol agent has been released by the Mexican government. As Casey Wian now reports, this is an injustice to the family of that murdered agent, his family, his colleagues, and to this nation.


CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Border patrol agent Luis Aguilar was killed in the line of duty in January, run down while trying to stop two suspected drug smugglers fleeing for the Mexican border. Three days later Mexican authorities arrested Jesus Navarro Montes, the alleged driver of the hummer that killed Aguilar as he tried to deploy a spike strip in the California desert. But LOU DOBBS TONIGHT has learned Mexico recently released the suspected killer after just five months in custody. Border patrol agents are furious.

T.J. BONNER, NAT'L BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: If this is Mexico's idea of cooperation, I shudder to think what betrayal looks like. There has never been any trust in all my 30 years with the border patrol, there has never been any trust of our law enforcement counter parts on the south side of the U.S./Mexico border because of the rampant corruption.

WIAN: During the search for Montes who has also served time in Mexico for illegal alien smuggling, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff praised Mexico's cooperation.

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: And the Mexican authorities are working very closely with us to find, apprehend, and bring to justice the perpetrators of this brutal, heinous act.

WIAN: But in a statement Wednesday Chertoff said, "We are shocked and appalled to learn that Jesus Navarro Montes was recently released by a Mexican judge. We're working with a determined Mexican government and our Department of Justice to seek swift justice for the Aguilar murder. We have also assured Agent Aguilar's family that every resource is being called upon in the relentless pursuit of justice."

More than 1,000 border patrol agents and law enforcement personnel attended Aguilar's memorial. His case has come to symbolize rising violence against border patrol agents who have endured nearly 500 attacks from last October through March of this year.


WIAN: Now agents are struggling to understand why the suspect has been freed. According to Mexican officials, they have not received a former extradition request from U.S. law enforcement or sufficient evidence to continue holding Montes. They say he was released on an unspecified technicality. We requested comment from the Justice Department and the FBI which led the investigation into the killing. So far, they have not provided more details, Lou.

DOBBS: Well at some point, the United States border patrol has to, I would think, its leadership, explain to those agents who risk their lives every day trying to protect that border, why they are being treated in such a shabby fashion by the nation they serve, or at least the leaders of that agency representing this nation.

I mean this is appalling. It is disgusting. And I cannot for a moment imagine why Michael Chertoff, the Secretary of Homeland Security, could issue such a tepid response to what is a blatant insult and assault against the very integrity of this nation.

WIAN: Yes, it's hard to figure out why the secretary of Homeland Security is still saying that Mexico is cooperating. What is interesting though is that Mexico is seeming to blame the United States for not submitting that extradition request. But what we can tell you is that law enforcement sources in the U.S. are outraged that they did not know that this guy was going to be released or that he was released until several days after he was freed. So there apparently was no notification, no courtesy you would expect from Mexico to say hey look we need an extradition request by this date or else this guy might go free.

DOBBS: Look, the Mexican government, the federal government is as corrupt as any one of the provincial governments. You and I both know that. The United States border patrol understands that, so does the U.S. government. What is at issue is how the United States government is acting, not the Mexican government, because we know what they are and what their leaders are.

And this -- what is disgusting is to think that, I have to say, three weeks ago, I'm calling for the Merida Initiative to be fulfilled by the U.S. Congress in the hope that Felipe Calderon was at least sincere in his efforts against the -- against those drug cartels.

The man is an absolute repetition of Vicente Fox. He is a hollow, shallow, cowardly leader.

WIAN: Yes, Lou, there are a lot of people in the law enforcement community, the federal law enforcement community in the United States who now think that this could put that Merida Initiative in jeopardy. One of the key components of that is that Mexico needs to reform its judicial system. And this seems to indicate that there are still a lot of questions about how that judicial system operates.

DOBBS: The government of Mexico is crooked, it is corrupt, and it is cowardly. And by the way, it is evenly matched by George W. Bush and his administration in this country. Casey, thank you very much -- Casey Wian.

Well while the alleged killer of the border patrol agent Aguilar is set free in Mexico, two of our former border patrol agents are in prison. Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean are continuing to serve lengthy prison sentences for the shooting and wounding of a Mexican illegal alien drug smuggler. Despite many efforts to have them pardoned, an appeal of their convictions heard in December, the wounded drug smuggler, Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, granted immunity from prosecution to testify against those two agents and Aldrete Davila continued to smuggle drugs into this country while under that immunity given him by the U.S. Attorney's Office.

He subsequently pleaded guilty to federal drug smuggling charges. He is now in federal custody awaiting sentencing and meanwhile, we have not heard from the appellate court nor has there been any, any action on the part of course of this administration whatsoever.

Well, 20 people were killed in three days in the border city of Juarez, Mexico. Juarez just across the border from El Paso, Texas, is one of the hardest hit cities in a wave of violence sweeping across Mexico. Juarez is also home to one of Mexico's most powerful drug cartels and Mexican authorities say more than 500 people have been killed in Juarez just so far this year.

The Mexican judge's decision, by the way, to release the suspected killer of one of our border patrol agents raises more questions about whether the Mexican government can be taken at its words for almost anything but certainly whether it can be taken at its word in fighting the drug cartels. Among the issues, the Bush administration proposal called the Merida Initiative. That plan would provide helicopters and surveillance aircraft, equipment and training to aid the Mexican forces in their fight against the cartels.

The House of Representatives earlier this month approved almost half a million dollars -- half a billion dollars for that first year of the plan. It's now in the hands of the Senate which could act on the initiative as early as this week. One outspoken critic of that plan is concerned about our ability to trust the Mexican government.

Congress Michael McCaul, who has been a supporter of the Merida Initiative, today commented on the release of the suspect and said "I am outraged that a Mexican judge would free a man suspected of killing a U.S. federal agent. I will use every authority I have on the House Homeland Security and Foreign Affairs Committees to pressure the Mexican government to recapture this person and extradited him to authorities in the United States. I want to assure our border patrol agents and the family of Agent Aguilar that we will bring this man to justice."

In my opinion we've got to do better than that. We've got to bring a government in Mexico to justice because they are the obscene source of just too much. Whether it is the preponderance of methamphetamines, heroine, cocaine and marijuana entering this country or whether it is the violence raging along our border.

But one of law enforcements most successful programs in fighting the illegal immigration crisis has been put in jeopardy by the Democratic leadership of Congress. The 287 (g) program partners local police with federal Immigration and Customs officials. And some Democratic lawmakers want to limit the scope of that program.

Lisa Sylvester has our report.


LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Immigration and Customs Enforcement has trained 47 state and local police agencies to enforce immigration law under a program known as 287 (g), but Congressman John Carter says he's worried that funding may be in jeopardy. Last year, Congress had a specific line item in the budget, money earmarked for the 287 (g) program. This year House appropriators lumped it into a general fund.

REP. JOHN CARTER (R), TEXAS: My fear is that it will jeopardize the program by putting it in competition with other programs that are designed to help state and local law enforcement and you know when you have competing pots -- all competing for one pot of money then there's no stability in the program.

SYLVESTER: The House Appropriations Committee also specified that the budgeted 287 (g) money should be prioritized to remove criminal aliens from jails and prisons. Critics say that will make it harder for local law enforcement to go after people who are working illegally but have not committed a serious offense.

ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERSUSA: They are saying -- they're sending a message to the rest of the illegal alien population, as long as you don't get caught committing a crime, you're free and clear. You get a pass.

SYLVESTER: Bill Johnson with the National Association of Police Organizations shares those concerns.

BILL JOHNSON, NAT'L ASSN. OF POLICE ORGS.: It ties the hands of law enforcement officers. We're not seeking to do something new. We're just trying to get the tools to do the job that we're already sworn to do.

SYLVESTER: A committee spokesman disputes that the program won't have enough funds, insisting that there is $40 million for 287 (g) next year, same amount as this year, but acknowledged that the focus will be on criminal aliens stating "The committee wants ICE to concentrate on known dangers to the community."


SYLVESTER: Representative Carter offered an amendment to add $12 billion specifically earmarked to train state and local police officers and immigration enforcement, but the amendment was defeated. I should also mention that Immigration and Customs Enforcement is also not happy at all with the funding changes, saying that this is essentially a money shell game -- Lou.

DOBBS: It's an ideological game and it is a game in which the Democratic Party is revealing itself to be the party of amnesty and open borders. And this is incredible, what the leadership of this Congress, if Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid wonder why their approval ratings are in the basement, at an all-time low in history, it is because they are savagely incompetent. It's incredible.

SYLVESTER: Yes, the public is not happy at all with what's been going on with Capitol Hill and that's reflected in the approval ratings, as you mentioned, Lou.

DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester from Washington.

That 287 (g) program is just one of the rare examples of a federal success. It is so popular with local law enforcement that more than 90 agencies now have applications pending to join that program. Immigration and Customs Enforcement says the program has identified almost 60,000 suspected illegal aliens in jails across the country. Those identified, of course, face deportation or additional charges.

We want to bring you up to date on something that has happened in Utah that you may not be hearing a lot about amongst the wags who fill up your national newspapers and of course the cable news networks because they want you to think that the presidential campaign has no interest in illegal immigration, but something happened in Utah yesterday that you need to know about.

Republican Congressman Chris Cannon lost his bid for re-election in Utah over his stand on illegal immigration. Congressman Cannon called for a liberalized guest worker program. He supported bills that allow states to pay tuition for children of illegal aliens. He was openly proud of the fact that he conflated illegal immigration with immigration and illegal driver's licenses for illegal aliens.

Cannon was defeated by political newcomer Jason Chaffetz. Chaffetz claimed that Cannon's vote show he was a supporter of amnesty for illegal aliens. And he is now, as they say, political history.

Time now for tonight's poll -- are you outraged at Democratic congressional efforts to reduce law enforcement's ability to enforce our immigration laws?

We'd like to hear from you on this. Yes or no? Cast your vote at We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.

Up next, lawmakers demanding a review of a plan that could put one of this country's strategic assets under foreign control, that special report.

And no Americans need apply becoming the sad reality for many Americans looking for work in this country. We'll have a report on this latest assault on our working men and women. Stay with us.


DOBBS: One of this country's strategic assets is the target of a foreign hedge fund, the Children's Investment Fund. The Children's Investment Fund, TCI is locked in a battle to take over several seats on the board of one of the country's most important railroads, CSX. CSX Railroad connects critical infrastructure in this country, of course, including military bases and ports, and some in Congress fear that TCI is trying to gain control of that critical asset.

Kitty Pilgrim has the report on today's shareholder meeting.


KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The shareholders meeting of CSX Railroad in New Orleans. CSX is a highly strategic national railroad connecting most of the east coast including 13 military bases and 70 ports. The biggest issue at this meeting is whether a $19 billion London-based hedge fund called the Children's Investment Fund, or TCI, will win a proxy battle to put five directors on the board. TCI will not release who invests in their fund but acknowledges at least some of the investment comes from foreign government. Some investors are against TCI's position.

JEFF LANGLEY, CSX SHAREHOLDER: You wonder what their goal is and what they're saying, what they really want to do with the stock in the company.

PILGRIM: Six senators have written a letter to Treasury Secretary Paulson to demand a review of the foreign investment. Senator Menendez says the Treasury Department faxed a cursory response to him today.

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: We're going to continue to pursue the secretary of the treasury until we get a more definitive response. We need a review of the Committee and Foreign Assets of the United States about this transaction and this critical infrastructure in our country.

REP. CORRINE BROWN (D), FLORIDA: The freight industry is really what is one of the life bloods of the military, of moving out of the country and we want to make sure that we look at any foreign investments.

PILGRIM: The U.S. district court this month found that TCI violated securities laws in acquiring shares of the railroad.

JOHN COFFEE, COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL: Judge Kaplan ruled a couple of weeks ago now that TCI had violated the federal securities laws, but he did not have the authority to sterilize the votes that is to prevent them from voting.

PILGRIM: TCI admits they want to cut capital spending and restructure the way the railroad works.


PILGRIM: Now there's no ending yet in this critical battle. CSX today at the shareholders meeting said the results are too close to call. They say July 25, they will receive the certification of the votes -- Lou.

DOBBS: It takes them until July 25 to get them a vote? This is another piece of stupidity in corporate America they need to get their heads around. This is not that complicated. That's pretty simple.

PILGRIM: It's very unusual to take that amount of time to calculate votes.

DOBBS: Come on, and the SEC, Chairman Christopher Cox presiding over all of this without a word, a whimper, not even a whisper of intent or concern. What is wrong with this -- the SEC is completely at sea here.

PILGRIM: And also the response from treasury was very tepid.

DOBBS: That's a shock. Henry Paulson the treasury secretary not having much of a response? This guy is a complete bozo. He has no clue whatsoever, and certainly no interest in the national interest, at least this nation's national interest.

PILGRIM: Well, this certainly has the focus of Congress and they're not going to let it go.

DOBBS: It's good to see Senator Menendez and Congresswoman Careen Brown, and Senator Bayh taking the lead on this. It's good to see public servants who are actually concerned about the national interests. Not enough of them, but a few.

Kitty, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Well, another case now of a foreign company buying a major American brand. Perhaps not the level of intrigue or interest, but certainly in terms of a popular brand, it doesn't get much better than Anheuser-Busch. The maker of Budweiser being pressured by the Belgium brewer InBev to make a decision on a whopping $46 billion takeover bid. InBev says they want to move ahead with the deal and immediately. Anheuser-Busch says I want to have time to think about whether or not that's enough money. If the deal were to go ahead, it would give the European brewer nearly a monopoly in the U.S. beer market.

Time now for a few of your thoughts.

Bill in Michigan saying: "Time to stop all of the phony hearings on Capitol Hill with the buckets of tears from Bill Gates telling Congress how badly he needs more foreign workers. What the Nielsen Corporation is doing to American workers should be plenty of evidence as to what is really going on." And I couldn't agree with you more.

Terry in Kansas said: "Lou, I just got a request to participate in Nielsen's ratings. I intend on filling out their book with comments about outsourcing and how I believe making money is not the only responsibility corporations have. I'll tell them that being a good U.S. corporate citizen includes being responsible for the welfare of your employees. Maybe I won't be alone."

Let's hope you're not. This country needs to start filling in a few feedback loops for corporate America on this issue.

And David in California: "I love when you mention to China. You refer to it as communist China. I'm a big C conservative ticked at the Republicans, appalled by Bush. Your show is the best broad spectrum one on TV, thankfully un-PC and centered on what is our national interest as Americans first and foremost." We're glad you noticed, and we're proud of that fact.

We'll have more of your thoughts later in the broadcast.

Up next, critically important rulings by the Supreme Court today. We'll be joined by our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. He'll tell us what he thinks about the rulings.

And the fight to keep our National Guard troops on the border with Mexico, a leading congressman in the fight joins us.

And we'll have the very latest on my challenge to candidates Obama and McCain to push away those nasty lobbyists from their administrations, whoever wins. Guess what, I haven't heard from them. We'll be talking about that.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.


DOBBS: No Americans need apply. It's fast becoming corporate America's mission statement and mantra.

On Monday, we reported that the Nielsen Company, the company that measures television ratings, has been replacing American workers with cheap foreign labor. Nielson, like many companies before it, is replacing good-paying middle class jobs and abusing the federal government's H1-B visa program process in the future. The biggest users of H1-B visas in fact are Indian outsourcing companies. Now some communities are telling Washington they've had enough of seeing jobs in their communities shipped overseas or labor shipped overseas to their communities.

Bill Tucker has our report.


BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The city counsel in Florida is not suffering quietly the sting of Nielsen's actions. The company is taking the jobs away from American workers, giving the jobs to foreign workers on guest worker visas, and requiring the fired workers to train them. Most of those jobs ultimately will be transferred out of the country.

GREG RUBLEE, OLDSMAR CITY COUNCIL: What Nielsen has chosen to do in exploiting the H1-B visa program, by American standards, it's fundamentally wrong and it's fundamentally unpatriotic.

SUZANNE VALE, OLDSMAR CITY COUNCIL: I'm incensed our government would allow this to happen to the American people. This is all about driving down the wages in this country. To me, it's unAmerican.

TUCKER: Because of the uproar over the outsourcing, Nielsen said it would forego millions of dollars in tax incentives this year. It's been receiving those incentives for the past four years. Counsel members admit there's nothing more they can do aside from express their anger. They're calling on Congress and voters to wake up now.

ERIC SEIDEL, OLDSMAR CITY COUNCIL: It's a huge issue that's getting worse, especially hitting us at times when the economy is not very good. I think Washington, it's not to pass the buck. I wish we had the authority to do something. JANICE MILLER, OLDSMAR CITY COUNCIL: People need to call Senator McCain, and Senator Obama, finding out what their stance is on this issue. They're running for the president. They need to find out where they stand. This is important. Our jobs are going overseas.

TUCKER: Nielsen acknowledges the losses but responds by noting that roughly 1,300 jobs will remain in the city.


TUCKER: However, critics are Nielsen and Oldsmar are a little leery of any promises or assurances from the company. They pointed out that Nielsen last October signed a $1.2 billion outsourcing contract for the next 10 years. The deal includes not only information technology support, but operational support as well.

DOBBS: Has anybody -- well, considered the fact that Nielsen is a monopoly with perhaps a sliver in this country. And we're letting this company operate here with impunity, abusing its -- frankly, our market and our hospitality, and these ignorant so-and-sos are shipping jobs overseas. Who needs them? Why in the world isn't Congress investigating why this company has a monopoly. Why in the world are we permitting such behavior from a company abusing workers in this fashion?

TUCKER: That's what every single member of this city counsel wants to know. They point out this is legal, it's within the law. Washington has crafted these policies and they're letting Nielsen do it and they're angry in their community.

DOBBS: Let's be honest. Does Washington even know? Where the heck are the Congress -- let's get with the congress in that district and the senators from that state and find out exactly what they're doing. If they're going to simply turn a blind eye to this kind of behavior, the country, the state of Florida, is lost. It's an absurdity to tolerate this corporate behavior, period.

Bill, if you would do that tomorrow, we'd appreciate it. I know Nielsen would appreciate it. Thank you very much, Bill Tucker.

Well, a group of Indian politicians is making its preference in our presidential race known. They're, by the way, for Senator Obama. The group has organized an 11-day religious ceremony for Senator Obama's success. The group is also planning to send Senator Obama a lucky charm, a two-foot tall gold-plated idol of one of the most popular and heroic gods in Hinduism. Senator Obama says he will try to keep jobs in this country but "We live in a more competitive world, and that's a fact that can't be reversed."

That's the kind of wisdom that I'm sure will be appreciated in India if not particularly embraced in this country. Try again, Senator Obama. How about you, Senator McCain? Why don't you step up, both of you say what you're thinking about having good-paying, middle- class jobs in your country. Where does the worker really fit into the future of the nation? Got the guts to tell us? I doubt it but we'll look forward to your response. Up next, the author of an important book, "A Government Ill Executed," Professor Paul Light joins me. We'll have more on the battle to reform or dysfunctional government and push back against lobbyists.

Congressman Ed Royce joins me. He'll tell me about the efforts to keep the National Guard posted on the border with Mexico.

We'll be right back. Stay with us.


DOBBS: The Supreme Court today issued key rulings in two cases. Our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin was in the courtroom when the high court handed down those rulings this morning.

Jeffrey, good to have you with us. Jeffrey is in Washington. The idea that it's cruel and unusual punishment to execute a man who rapes an 8-year-old, that's not going to sit too well with many Americans. What's your reaction?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It didn't sit too well with Barack Obama, who announced his opposition to this decision today. It was a very hard case. The Supreme Court said no rapist has been executed in the United States since 1964. It's never going to happen again.

DOBBS: Never going to happen again? Is that really the job of the Supreme Court? Shouldn't there be a legislative -- a community standard at work, not a high court? And if it was a 5-4 decision, for crying out loud?

TOOBIN: It sure was. But the Supreme Court has been pretty aggressive in limiting capital punishment in recent years. No more execution of juveniles, no more execution of mentally retarded, this is added to the list.

DOBBS: How about Exxon Valdez? What happened there?

TOOBIN: They knocked down the punitive damage award in that case from $2.5 billion, they said that was excessive, to $500 billion so it was a good day to be an Exxon shareholder today.

DOBBS: Well that's great. Now let me ask you this. How long did it take for this case to unwind, make its way through the court system, and be decided by the high court?

TOOBIN: Only 19 years, but it's still going. They sent it back to the lower courts to be resolved, so we're going to hit the two- decade mark in the Exxon Vandez case.

DOBBS: What if we eliminated 10,000 attorneys from the legal profession every year in every case that goes on like this? Isn't this an embarrassment to the bar association, the judicial system? Is it an embarrassment to anyone but the American people? TOOBIN: It's an embarrassment. Justice delayed is justice denied. It's an old saying. It couldn't be truer to the people who lost their livelihood and haven't been paid back.

DOBBS: Well I guess all I can say is good work, lawyers. It's just beautiful.

Thank you very much, Jeffrey Toobin.

Up at the top of the hour, the "ELECTION CENTER" and Campbell Brown.

Campbell, what are you working on?

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up at the top of the hour, Republicans piling on Barack Obama. We have a sneak preview of a new attack line being spearheaded by none other than Bush's former strategist, Karl Rove. That Obama is making his own attack plans. We'll talk about that. Wait until you hear the states he's going after.

Plus, a scandal with everything, money, politics, movie star Anne Hathaway, the Vatican, and yes, even a Bill Clinton connection. All of that coming up at the top of the hour.

DOBBS: Did you say sex or just imply it in that list?

BROWN: I think we actually said it.

DOBBS: All right. Campbell, look forward to it. Thank you.

Up next, a new challenge to fix our non functioning government. Professor and author Paul Light joins me.

And the National Guard being pulled off our border with Mexico. We'll be talking with the congressman fighting to stop that withdrawal.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.


DOBBS: Congressman Ed Royce is co-sponsoring leading a fight to pass a resolution that would keep our National Guard on the border of Mexico. The Bush administration withdrawing the National Guard the last contingent on the 15th of July. Congressman Royce joins me now.

Congressman, good to have you with us. Is there support for this resolution?

Congressman, can you hear me? I'm hearing somebody tell me you can't hear --

REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA: Lou, can you hear me? I can hear you now.

DOBBS: Congressman, thank you.

ROYCE: Thank you.

DOBBS: I was asking, do you think you're going to be able to get this legislation passed? Do you have the support for it?

ROYCE: Well Lou, let me tell you. Right now, we have the support of the four governors on the border. The case for keeping the 6,000 National Guard on the border is that there is an out of control drug war going on that border. We had 700 attacks on our border patrol agents last year. These 6,000 National Guard troops helped in this effort. They helped our border patrol arrest 166,000 people at the border who were coming over illegally. They brought their own choppers up. They brought their own bulldozers. They have been putting up fence. They have frankly been --

DOBBS: But they have been on the border. And this violence has been rising with their presence there, admittedly, that the 6,000, better than 6,000 national guardsman who were there, being drawn down.

ROYCE: They being drawn down, but remember this, they're not on the front line. They're right behind, operating the equipment, assisting and allowing the border patrol to be on the front line. They have got their backs. So that has helped provide safety, security, to our border patrol. In the meantime, they're putting up fence, as I said.

They're building the infrastructure. They're assisting in the arrests. To pull them off now at a time when the -- frankly, the drug cartels are beginning to take over along the border, this is absolutely irrational. This is why pressure has to be deployed now.

DOBBS: I applaud you for that. You know I support you 100 percent. I think most Americans concerned for the country do. We also know your party has a president who is a lame duck, who has been the principle problem on the border from the day he took office.

ROYCE: Listen, we're in agreement about the lack of this administration taking decisive action. And here, they finally did something, which was put these 6,000 border patrol troops on the border. Now they want to take them back. We're saying listen to the four governors on the border who say that this has to be done now to protect the security. We have terrorists who have tried to come over that border.

DOBBS: Congressman Ed Royce, I'm sorry. We're out of time. I appreciate you being here and wish you well. Thank you.

ROYCE: Thank you Lou.

DOBBS: Congressman Ed Royce.

Up next, a challenge for the presidential candidates. I'll be talking with the author of an important book, "A Government Ill Executed." Does that sound familiar?

We'll be right back.


DOBBS: Joining me now is Professor Paul Light, author of the book, "A Government Ill Executed." There it is, a terrific read, and we recommend it highly.

When Professor Light was here last on this broadcast, we talked about this dysfunctional federal government and the role of lobbyists in preventing its effective and efficient execution. I challenged at that time the presidential candidates to take action, to resolve the issue of lobbying, at least within the executive branch. And here is what professor light had to say at the time.

PROF. PAUL LIGHT, AUTHOR, "A GOVERNMENT ILL EXECUTED": Get Obama and McCain to join hands right now, and introduce an amendment to the 1978 ethics act. Make it law. Why not reach across?

DOBBS: They could show leadership, couldn't they?

LIGHT: They absolutely could.

DOBBS: All right. Paul Light is joining me in this challenge, Senators. Let's do it how about it.

Well Paul, we know how about it. They told me to go to hell. They told you to go to hell. They're telling the American people to go to hell.

LIGHT: They're just not saying much of anything. They've got so many promises to make that they really don't want to talk about how to deliver, I'm afraid.

DOBBS: They don't want to talk about it. These guys are -- you know, John McCain wants to present him as a man, a legislature of reform. Senator Obama wants to talk all this blather about being an agent of change. Neither one of them has the guts to talk about a single change in the role of lobbyists in their administrations. How sick to your stomach does that make you?

LIGHT: You know, they're both sitting U.S. senators --

DOBBS: Well, there's one problem.

LIGHT: Well, but -- they're the first two senators to run against each other in dozens of presidential elections. They could do something right now. And the fact that they're not doing anything is outrageous.

DOBBS: Why is it that the national media, the press corps, these political parties, they're really branding organizations, fund-raising organizations more than political parties, but nonetheless -- the Republicans and the Democrats.

Why is there no drive within them to change the way Washington works, the way administrations work, the way Congress works? LIGHT: Well, if you take away all of the special interest people who are going to work for McCain or Obama, you'd have an empty administration. Washington thrives on this kind of activity.

DOBBS: So you're saying that the revolving door between government and lobbyists, spending almost $3 billion last year in Washington, crowding out the American people, the people, that they simply could not function because no one has such a high and lofty ambition as to serve their nation without thinking about the revolving door and being paid off on the other end of that -- of that journey in a lobbying firm?

LIGHT: I'll bet you right now that two-thirds of every appointee in the next administration will have a zip code inside the beltway. That's just the way it is.

DOBBS: Paul, come back soon. We'll be talking.

LIGHT: We'll keep pushing.

DOBBS: You got it. Government ill executed indeed. If they could get to that level, it would be progress.

Thank you very much, Paul.

LIGHT: You're welcome.

DOBBS: Tonight's poll results -- 97 percent of you say you're outraged at Democratic congressional attempts to reduce law enforcement's ability to enforce our immigration laws.

And a reminder to join me please on the radio Monday through Friday for "The Lou Dobbs Show." Harvard law professor, Elizabeth Warren, joins me. We'll be talking about the war on the middle class. Tony Perkins, an evangelical conservative of the Family Research Counsel. I'll be talking about God and politics in this election. Dobson, Obama and other B words. Go to to get the local listings for "The Lou Dobbs Show" on the radio.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow.

For all of us, we thank you for watching. Good night from New York.

The "ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown begins right now -- Campbell.