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Lou Dobbs Tonight
McCain Defends his Education Policies; Senators Obama and McCain Seek Independent Votes; Policy Shift on Iran; Illegal Alien Voters; Failing Grades
Aired July 16, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Wolf, thank you.
Tonight, Senators McCain and Obama confronting their critics on education and national security trying to win over independent voters. We'll tell you how they're doing.
And, tonight, outrage after the world court tries to interfere in the U.S. judicial system, ordering the U.S. government to delay the execution of five convicted Mexican citizens on death row in Texas.
And, tonight, stunning new evidence that illegal aliens and other non-citizens are playing a decisive role in our electoral process and possibly in our presidential election, we'll have that story, all of that, all the day's news, and much more, with an independent perspective, straight ahead, here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, July 16th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Senator McCain today strongly defended his education policies in a speech to some of his harshest critics. Addressing the NAACP, Senator McCain said some of the worst problems in our public schools are in black communities. McCain declared he has a plan to expand educational opportunities for everyone.
Senator Obama today focusing on national security for a second straight day trying to win over independent voters, Obama warning about the danger of fighting what he called the last war.
We have extensive coverage tonight, beginning with Dana Bash in Cincinnati, Ohio -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, we're told several prominent black Republicans met with John McCain last week and urged him not to give up fighting for the black vote. He came, in part, because of that, and in part to beef up his brand as a Republican not afraid to reach out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): If your audience is the NAACP and your opponent would be the first black president, you start here.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't tell him I said this, but he's an impressive fellow in many ways.
(APPLAUSE)
BASH: That was John McCain's biggest applause line, an icebreaker about Barack Obama who got a thunderous reception two days earlier. McCain was greeted with mostly polite clapping. One person so indifferent, he read the paper. McCain came armed with new education initiatives.
MCCAIN: The worst problems of our public school system are often found in black communities.
BASH: He pushed merit pay for teachers and hit Obama for opposing school vouchers.
MCCAIN: All that went over well with the teacher's union. But where does it leave families and their children who are stuck in failing schools?
BASH: The reaction, dead silence. McCain's chances at winning black votes are incredibly steep. A fresh "New York Times" poll shows 89 percent of black voters support Obama. Just two percent say they'll vote for McCain.
MCCAIN: Whether or not I win your support, I need your good will and your counsel.
BASH: But McCain came looking mostly for just that, good will, to show he's a different kind of Republican. After George Bush was elected, he did not attend the NAACP conference for six years. McCain came and even opened it up for questions.
MCCAIN: I know you have a couple things on your mind...
BASH: Knowing he'd get some tough ones like from this teacher in an Obama T-shirt who says teachers can't afford food.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you going to do, Senator? We can't continue this way.
MCCAIN: I want to reward good teachers.
BASH: If nothing else here, kudos for coming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After hearing him today, I may listen to him again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Democrats were quick to send out a list of black forums John McCain skipped this campaign season. But most NAACP members we talked to after McCain's speech said they're not going to vote for him, but they do respect him for coming, and especially for take tough questions, something Obama did not do -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you. Dana Bash, reporting from Cincinnati.
Senator Obama, today, made another effort, the second this week, to sell national security policies to independent voters. Obama, saying he wants a world without nuclear weapons. But the senator also said the United States must retain a strong deterrent.
Bill Schneider has our report on the national security contest between Obama and McCain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): On Tuesday, Barack Obama gave his big speech about Iraq and Afghanistan. John McCain's response -- Obama doesn't know anything.
MCCAIN: Why not take your first trip ever to Afghanistan before you come out with a speech on what we need to do? I mean, it's remarkable. I've never seen anything like it.
SCHNEIDER: McCain has extensive military experience, 11 flag level officers signed a letter endorsing him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's experienced, he's well liked and he knows what he's talking about.
SCHNEIDER: Nearly three quarters of Americans believe McCain would be a good commander in chief. Obama has no military experience. Voters are not sure whether he would be a good commander in chief. As a result, McCain has the advantage on national security issues, like terrorism and handling a national crisis. Obama opposed the troop surge in Iraq. But now acknowledges that violence has declined.
MCCAIN: Senator Obama refuses to acknowledge that he was wrong.
SCHNEIDER: Obama claims he was right, not because the surge didn't worked, but because it was a dangerous distraction.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This war distracts us from every threat that we face and so many opportunities we could seize.
SCHNEIDER: On Wednesday, he held a summit with national security experts aimed at drawing attention to those threats.
OBAMA: Instead of adjusting to the stateless threats of the 21st century, we invaded and occupied a state that had no collaborative relationship with al Qaeda.
SCHNEIDER: Right now, Obama and McCain are rated about the same on Iraq, Iran and international affairs, which means he has neutralized McCain's advantage on foreign policy. And he's trying to do the same thing on national security.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SCHNEIDER: Obama will shortly be headed to the Middle East. And he intends to show those independent voters that he knows a lot about the threats the United States faces. McCain is hoping the trip will demonstrate to those same independent voters how little he knows -- Lou.
DOBBS: This, Senator McCain said, will be Senator Obama's first trip to Afghanistan?
SCHNEIDER: I think it will be his first trip to Afghanistan. He was in Iraq I think in 2006, yes.
DOBBS: All right. Thank you very much -- Bill Schneider.
Turning, now, to the war in Iraq, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Michael Mullen, today said he expects to recommend more troop withdrawals in the fall. Mullen said security conditions in Iraq have improved to the point that he can make such a recommendation.
Insurgents, however, killed two more of our troops in separate attacks north and west of Baghdad. Six of our troops have now been killed in Iraq this month; 4,121 of our troops killed since the war began; 30,409 of our troops have been wounded; 13,508 of them seriously.
Fifteen of our troops have been killed in Afghanistan so far this month; nine of them in an attack on a combat outpost Sunday. Our military says our troops have now withdrawn from that outpost. No reason was given. Military officials say our troops will continue to patrol the area near the border with Pakistan. Defense Secretary Robert Gates today saying he's hoping to send more troops to Afghanistan sooner rather than later, as he put it.
A major policy shift by the Bush administration on Iran tonight even as Iran tries to kill our troops in Iraq. A top U.S. diplomat this weekend will hold talks with an Iranian official about Tehran's nuclear program. The Bush administration had insisted it would not hold any negotiations until Iran stopped that nuclear program.
The program goes on, and Elaine Quijano has our report from the White House -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the White House insists it is not giving into Iran, despite President Bush signing off on a decision to send Undersecretary of State William Burns to a meeting in Switzerland this weekend with Iran's top nuclear negotiator and the foreign policy chief of the European Union.
The Bush administration had said it would not engage in direct nuclear talks, unless Iran suspended its uranium enrichment program. Officials argue the meeting will not be a negotiation, that Burns will be there to reiterate the U.S.' position, and to listen to what the Iranians have to say about a package of economic incentives that the Europeans delivered weeks ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The seriousness from which we've been trying to tell you all for many month, which is that we want to solve this issue diplomatically, we seek to do so, we are going to continue to work with our international partners in unison, which is what we're going to do on Saturday. But the fundamental, underlying principle is that there will not be any negotiation unless Iran suspends its enrichment of uranium.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: The U.S. insists there will be no separate meeting between burns and the Iranian envoy. Meantime, Senator Barack Obama Senator, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, says he welcomes the news that the Bush administration in his words has shifted course. Lou.
DOBBS: Elaine, thank you.
Elaine Quijano reporting from the White House.
President Bush today asserted executive privilege to prevent Attorney General Michael Mukasey from handing over documents in the CIA White House leak case. Congressman Henry Waxman, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, demanded material related to the leak of the CIA officer's identity, Valerie Plame in 2003. Waxman apparently focusing on this investigation and other partisan issue, even as voters are demanding action by Congress on important issues including our worsening economy and rising gasoline prices, the congressman clearly failing to notice that Congress' approval ratings have plummeted to the lowest levels ever, 9 percent. Yes, that's considerably lower than over even President Bush's abysmal approval ratings.
The Democratic leadership in Congress, Senator Harry Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi continue to put their partisan agenda ahead of the people's business, working men and women and their families are left to deal with the economic crisis without Congressional assistance. That leads to this point.
Up next, rising evidence that illegal aliens and other non- citizens are voting and could influence the outcome of this presidential election. We'll tell you all about it.
And our public education system failing an entire generation of Americans, we'll take a critical look tonight at the education proposals of both Senator Obama and Senator McCain from an independent and empirical point of view.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: There's startling new evidence tonight that our democracy is at risk on a number of fronts including a new study showing that non-citizens, including illegal aliens, are voting in our elections.
As Casey Wian now reports, if this year's presidential election remains as close as it appears to be now, this election could, in fact, be decided by fraud.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of non- citizens registered to vote in the United States may run into the tens of thousands, perhaps more. That's according to the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. Its report, written by a former member of the Federal Election Commission, concludes the 2000 presidential election and many local elections have been decided within the margin of the number of non-citizens illegally registered to vote. Its site said 2005 Government Accountability Office report that one federal court district, using voter registration lists to find jurors, was told by up to three percent of the people on that list they were not citizens.
HANS VON SPAKOVSKY, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I don't think that people who are not U.S. citizens should be making -- or helping to make decisions on who governs the country who governs local communities who governs the state.
WIAN: Part of the problem is with so-called motor voter laws where people applying for driver's licenses are also given voter registration forms at the same time. Non-citizens and in a few states even illegal aliens are eligible for driver's licenses, but only U.S. citizens are eligible to vote in state and federal elections. Ten Congressional Republicans are sponsoring a bill to mandate a warning on voter registration forms and at polling places, that making a false claim of citizenship is a deportable offense.
REP. VIRGINIA BROWN-WAITE (R), FLORIDA: Think about how close some of the elections are. We can't let the elections be determined by people who do not have the right to vote here.
WIAN: After all, President Bush won Florida in 2000 by fewer than 1,000 votes. Only Arizona requires voters to show proof of citizenship to cast their ballots. The Heritage Foundation says all states should follow Arizona's lead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: But opponents say that would hurt voters who can't easily prove their citizenship. In fact, California Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren called the Heritage Foundation report part of an effort by Republicans to use what she says is so-called voter fraud to disenfranchise minority voters -- Lou.
DOBBS: So Congresswoman Lofgren is saying that it's OK to permit illegal aliens to vote because what? I mean, I don't quite understand the argument.
WIAN: She says that the incidences of illegal aliens or non- citizens voting are relatively small. In the words of the Congresswoman Lofgren (ph) and many other Democrats, it's a much greater threat, they say that many Americans who are legally authorized to vote can't do it or wouldn't be able to do it if restrictions were tighter. DOBBS: So in other words, there should be no requirement whatsoever because we are told anecdotally it would be difficult? I mean, that makes very little sense at best.
WIAN: Apparently what they want is to make it easier for people to register to vote. They say that illegal aliens aren't going to risk being deported or being found out by registering to vote, but the evidence suggests that there have been many elections where non- citizens have had a factor.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: These are the same folks, are they not, Casey who said illegal aliens in this country are hiding in the shadows, et cetera, et cetera, even as they're lining up for work in communities all across the country. I mean, again, the American people are sitting here swallowing this nonsense whole.
It's incredible. We're talking about three percent, three percent. In one case three percent of the population voting, three percent of those voter lists, being non-citizens or illegal aliens. I mean, it's straightforward.
WIAN: And what's incredible about that is that of the court jurisdictions that they studied, that the General Accountability Office studied, only one of those districts actually went back and shared with the voter registration officials that, hey, we've got all these non -- people who say they're non-citizen, they're on your voter registration list. So no one is doing anything about this problem or very few people are doing anything about this problem.
DOBBS: Well, the truth is there's no one in this federal government doing anything about it. State governments are overwhelmed and we rely on the honor system in this country for voter registration and votes that are built on legitimate voter registration. It's going to be an ugly, ugly -- potentially a very ugly election in terms of the fraud that is possible.
And it has a huge impact, of course, well beyond simply the outcome of a presidential election. We wouldn't want to worry about a little thing like that, would we?
Casey, thank you very much -- Casey Wian.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Well let's take a look at that. Illegal immigration and voting by illegal aliens also having -- well, something of an impact directly on elections, but also on how the 435 seats in our House of Representatives are divided among the various states. Those seats in Congress are allocated based on population data collected in the census every 10 years.
Now the census does not distinguish between legal citizens and illegal aliens. That means that states with high illegal alien populations will be gaining seats at the expense of states with fewer illegal aliens. A recent study by the University of Connecticut finds that Arizona, Texas, and Florida will gain at least seven Congressional seats after the 2010 census solely because of growing illegal alien populations in those states.
Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio and New York stand to lose seven seats because they don't have enough illegal aliens. There's a resolution now before Congress that would require Congressional seats be allocated based on the number of citizens living in a district, rather than total population, which, of course, includes illegal aliens.
Up next, E. coli and salmonella outbreaks are spreading tonight. We have a problem in our food safety system and the FDA is certainly not part of the solution right now. I'll be talking with two lawmakers who have some ideas about what to do.
And failing grades, what Senators Obama and McCain say we should do to fix our public schools. We'll have that and a great deal more still ahead. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up, the high court is interfering in the U.S. judicial system. The high court, you see, is the world court, and we'll be talking about why they don't like what we're doing with some of their citizens who killed some of ours. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our reporting focuses extensively on this country's broken public education system, public schools that have failed an entire generation of students. Both the presidential candidates, Senator Obama and Senator McCain are promising to fix our troubled schools.
Kitty Pilgrim now examines just where these two candidates stand on the issue of public education.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Both candidates have made major policy speeches on education in recent days both before the NAACP, emphasizing high dropout rates for minorities. Unofficial estimates put dropout rates in inner city schools as high as 50 percent. Republican candidate John McCain today endorsed school vouchers.
MCCAIN: No entrenched bureaucracy or union should deny parents that choice and children that opportunity.
PILGRIM: McCain is also proposing bonuses for teachers to work in troubled schools, bonuses for higher achieving teacher to be awarded by the school principal and $500 million for online courses for students. But the two largest teachers union, the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association, collectively, with four million members, are adverse to vouchers, and they have endorsed Barack Obama. He favors shoring up the existing public school system, which educates more than 90 percent of all students.
OBAMA: We need to fix and improve our public schools, not throw our hands up and walk away from them.
PILGRIM: Obama wants better pay for teachers, more early childhood education program, and a $4,000 tax credit to help families pay for college. But Obama gave few details on how to pay for the plan.
JACK JENNINGS, CENTER FOR EDUCATION POLICY: Schools are relying on sales taxes, income taxes, property taxes so that when there's foreclosures of homes in communities, it means that there's no revenue for the schools from that property.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, Jack Jennings, of the Center for Education Policy, says the education crisis will only get worse as the housing crisis continues. For example, in California, some 20,000 teachers are being laid off to cut back on spending for schools -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Up next here, the federal government has no idea how to tackle food-borne diseases. Two members of Congress who do have some ideas to fix the problem join us.
And the world court threatening U.S. sovereignty, the independence of our judiciary, our right to execute convicted murderers, we'll have that report and a great deal more.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion. Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Welcome back.
Senators Obama and McCain today confronting their critics on two important national issues. Senator Obama tackling national security, warning of the danger of fighting what he called the last war. Senator McCain focusing on education telling the NAACP he wants to expand educational opportunity for everyone.
Also tonight, new evidence that illegal aliens and other non- citizens could play a decisive role in our presidential election. New concerns that the election could be decided by fraudulent votes.
And a major policy shift today by the Bush administration on Iran. A top U.S. diplomat this weekend holding talks with an Iranian official about Tehran's nuclear program. The Bush administration had insisted it would not have any negotiation and denies, in fact, there will be a negotiation in this meeting until Iran stops its nuclear program.
The FBI is now investigating the failed IndyMac bank for possible fraud in connection with loans it made to highly risky borrowers. Hundreds of IndyMac customers waited in line again outside Indy Bank's headquarters in Pasadena, California hoping to withdraw their money. The federal government took over that bank last Friday concerned that it could not meet customer demands for their deposits. IndyMac is the second largest bank failure in U.S. history.
Congress tonight investigating how government agencies are handling or mishandling the widening and worsening salmonella outbreak. There are now nearly 1,200 cases across 42 states and Washington, D.C. The congressional subcommittee on oversight and investigations today held a hearing and Monday, congressional investigators released a report, finding at least six other countries and the European Union have far better food safety systems than the United States. The report was ordered by two of Congress' most vocal critics of our food safety programs and system and its regular regulators.
Joining me now from Capitol Hill, Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut and Senator Richard Durbin of Illinois.
Thank for both for being here.
REP. ROSA DELAURO (D), CONNECTICUT: Thank you.
DOBBS: Congresswoman, let me ask you, how is it that the United States, with the FDA, the CDC, after this many years, after September 11th, we apparently have agencies that have literally no clue as to the origin of the salmonella outbreak.
DELAURO: Well the fact is, Lou, the federal government has walked away from its responsibility of ensuring and protecting our food supply. Each day, we have a new outbreak, a different product, a different pathogen and a different agency that does the investigation. The results are the same. The American public's health is at risk and farmers face tremendous losses.
The GAO, as you pointed out, did do a study. They offered us some ideas about how to reform our system. And they've identified from other countries three critical components that could help to ensure our food safety system, traceability, better coordination between the federal, state and local public health agencies and mandatory recall.
As a matter of fact, those are the components that Senator Durbin and I have in our bill, the Safe Food Act, which would have a single food safety agency to address this issue. And what we would do is to have better coordination of research, of investigations and overall safety of the food supply.
DOBBS: Senator Durbin, your Safe Food Act that you in the Senate and obviously Congresswoman DeLauro have introduced here, I mean, how soon can this be put into effect? How soon do you expect its passage and the improvement in our food safety system as a result? SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Let's be honest, it's not likely to happen this year. We're near an election, a change in administration. The president is not going to go forward with an initiative. It takes presidential leadership. But I can guarantee you, whoever the next president may be -- and I have my favorite in the race -- we're going to go to that president and say, you've got to do this, for the safety of food on the tables across America.
DOBBS: Senator Durbin what in the world must -- I mean, surely you know what people are thinking as they listen to Senator Dick Durbin say we're not going to be able to get to it this year, when thousands, arguably, 30,000 to 40,000 Americans have been sickened in this outbreak. The FDA still hasn't got a clue what it's doing. And you're being honest, I understand that, and straight forward, and for that I commend you, but the Congress is so broken that it can't move to protect the American people right now?
DURBIN: Well, Lou, I want to tell you, Congresswoman DeLauro and I have been fighting this battle for a long, long time. And every time there's a serious food contamination or illness that goes around, people get interested in food safety. We're going to keep this battle going. But we need a president who's willing to show leadership. You really have to tackle 15 different federal agencies, scores of committees, lobbyists, special interest groups that don't want change. The American people deserve this. They need a better food safety system.
DELAURO: The senator's right, Lou. We are looking at a real change in attitude here on Capitol Hill because there is less confidence in our food system and many of our colleagues are coming aboard, to say that a single food agency that's focused directly on food safety and nothing else is the direction to go. But this is a top-down issue, not a bottom-up. We need a president and we need agency heads who believe that this is the direction that we ought to be going in.
DOBBS: Congresswoman, we thank you very much for being with us, Congresswoman DeLauro.
Thank you very much, Senator Durbin, thank you, sir, appreciate it.
And my compliments to you both for introducing the legislation desperately needed. Thank you, both.
DELAURO: Thank you.
DOBBS: Well up next here, the World Court, well, it's making a ruling and giving the United States an order, one that is a direct intrusion on the U.S. legal system and our national sovereignty. And new efforts to keep the National Guard on our southern border with Mexico. We'll tell you all about that as well.
We're coming right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: A new threat tonight to this country's judiciary system and our national sovereignty all, thank you, to the World Court. The World Court is now demanding the United States halt the executions of more than 50 Mexican citizens now on death row. The first of those scheduled executions is that of an illegal alien gang member convicted of the rape and murder of two young teenaged girls.
Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The International Court of Justice in the Hague ordered the United States to take all measures necessary to ensure five Mexican nationals on death row in the U.S. are not executed, pending the World Court's decision on their cases.
One of them, Jose Medellin, was convicted of brutally raping and killing two Texas teens. He's scheduled to be executed in Texas on August 5th. Mexico brought the case to the international court, saying Medellin and the other Mexican nationals were not told of their right under the Vienna convention on consular relations to contact the Mexican consulate upon arrest.
Lawyers representing the government of Mexico in a statement responded to the decision, saying, "We are confident that the United States and state of Texas will comply with the ICJ's order and stay the August 5th execution of Mr. Medellin."
But the White House did not indicate how it would proceed.
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: ICJ issued a preliminary decision. It's something we're reviewing now so I don't have anything more for you on it.
SYLVESTER: Previously, the Bush administration asked the state courts to give the Mexican nationals new trials. But the U.S. Supreme Court says the White House does not have the authority to compel the state to act. The Washington Legal Foundation represents the family of one of the Texas girls killed. Rich Samp says the World Court can't issue any ruling it want, but from a practical standpoint it has no real jurisdiction over state criminal matters.
RICH SAMP, WASHINGTON LEGAL FOUNDATION: There is no other court in the world, no other national court in the world, that has permitted the World Court to second guess its criminal proceedings. So the idea that the United States ought to allow it to interfere here I think is unwarranted.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And a short while ago, CNN received a statement from the Texas attorney general's office in which they stated, quote, "Texas is bound not by the World Court, but by the U.S. Supreme Court, which reviewed this matter and determined that the convicted murder's execution shall proceed." The Texas attorney general also noted that there have been 15 years of appeals, delaying justice for the victim's family -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester.
We'd like to hear what you think about all of this. The question is: Do you believe the World Court order is a blatant intrusion in the sovereign affairs of the U.S. government?
Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com.
I'm joined now by our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey, you know what a fan I am of the World Court and the United Nations itself, which I consider to be -- we won't go into that now. But the idea they have the arrogance to sit there and say -- they ordered the United States government to stop these executions.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the interesting thing here is that so far the Bush administration has taken the side of the World Court, and it is the state of Texas that is claiming that there is no right of the World Court to tell them what to do. And clearly what the World Court did today is not binding. Texas can proceed with this execution regardless of what the World Court says.
DOBBS: But as you say, the complication is that George W. Bush seems to think that he is somehow obligated -- with a greater deal of responsibility, has a far greater obligation, to the government of Mexico, than he does the government of the United States. What is going on in the minds of the U.S. Justice Department and this administration, that they would decide to literally fritter away the sovereignty of the United States? Because that's what would happen if they acceded to the wishes of the World Court.
TOOBIN: What they're worried about the issue of reciprocity. They are worried that if we execute Medellin without this hearing going forward, when our citizens are arrested in other countries, they will not have the right to consular contact that they're guaranteed under the treaty that's in dispute here. So that's what they're worried about.
DOBBS: So the little darlings of the Bush administration really believe they should stop the judicial process in this country because of hypothetical, for example, the release of a murder in the prisons of Mexico, as they've just done after holding him for five months, a man who is suspected, is the primary suspect in the killing of a U.S. border patrol agent. What possibly could be going through their minds to think this is in any way reciprocity?
TOOBIN: They're worried about these other countries punishing us for going forward with this execution, saying, well, if you're not -- if you're going to execute people who might not have had access to consular officials when we arrest your people, we're not going to let them talk to them.
DOBBS: At what point do you lose right to consider yourself a nation? If your permit people to kill your citizens with impunity and without bringing them to justice what are you, legally speaking?
TOOBIN: You're a country with a lot less power than you used to have.
DOBBS: Yes, and a country without much character and certainly leadership that would sicken anyone but those strongest of heart.
TOOBIN: But the Supreme Court did side with the state of Texas. Because this case -- the Bush administration claimed it had the right legally to stop this execution.
DOBBS: All right, then I've got one other question. Is there any way you can accelerate a lame duck's president exit from the nation's capital?
TOOBIN: That's an easy one, absolutely not.
DOBBS: I was afraid you'd say that.
Thank you very much, appreciate it, Jeffrey Toobin.
Up next here, calls for the National Guard to stay on our border with Mexico until the border patrol and the Department of Homeland Security have secured our border. Stay with us for that.
And chaos in the skies. Airlines taking drastic steps to survive and treating travelers and passengers about as poorly as one can imagine being tolerated. We'll have that special report here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The National Guard yesterday ended its deployment along our border with Mexico. As many as 6,000 National Guard troops were deployed at one time along the border. Two dozen members of Congress wrote a letter to President Bush, calling for the National Guard to be allowed to remain on our border until the border patrol itself can meet its goal of 18,000 agents and take effective control of that border. Congressman Ed Royce signed that letter to the president and joined me tonight from Capitol Hill.
Congressman, good to have you here.
REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, as usual, when one seems -- the election of the United States Congress, he or she doesn't get much attention from this White House, even if you're in the same party.
ROYCE: And what is particularly sad about this is we've talked to the border patrol agents themselves and they've explained they've had over 700 attacks on border patrol agents. One of the great deterrents was having these 6,000 National Guard troops there that helped them with 166,000 arrests, helped them put up fence, helped them build roads, 700 miles of roads. And now that's been taken out of the equation at a time when the drug cartels are increasingly violent on the border. This is a great travesty and danger frankly for our border patrol. We need to get those National Guard troops back there, supporting our border patrol.
DOBBS: Well, just out of curiosity -- and I'd just like to ask this question, just between you and me, congressman no one else will be listening, I assure you, is this president unaware that Mexico is the primary source of methamphetamines, cocaine, heroin and marijuana entering the United States?
ROYCE: For some reason, this president believes that sending $1.6 billion to Mexico and the Democrats believe sending $1.6 billion to the Mexican government is going to help them solve the problem, as opposed to us securing our own border and guaranteeing that meth. Now, these troops helped stop 300 pounds of meth and other drugs. So we know how effective spending these resources on our side of the border will be.
Lou, I am in agreement with you. I'm astounded by the position of the administration in withdrawing the border patrol. All four governors along the border who originally questioned this say it's an unmitigated success, we need the National Guard there.
DOBBS: Has President Bush explained to you or to anyone you know in Congress why they did not act to extradite the suspect in the murder of Agent Aguilar, the border patrol run over by a fleeing drug smuggler, and who was held for five months in Mexico, and the federal government this U.S. government, this administration did nothing to extradite him?
ROYCE: Inexplicable, inexplicable as is the case of Ramos and Compean, the two agents that we're trying to get released right now from our prison system.
I think the empathy for the government of Mexico on the side of the Democratic leadership and on the president, at a time when our American citizens are facing the results, the costs, of the drug cartels controlling that board, both in illegal immigration and in drugs coming across that border and in the crime committed by drug gangs along our borders, our southern borders, this demands the action of the American public...
DOBBS: Right.
ROYCE: ... impressing their officials and the White House to get the National Guard back down there on that border.
DOBBS: Well Congressman Ed Royce, we thank you for being with us here. It's a remarkable situation. I just asked our senior legal analyst if there were any way in which to expedite or accelerate the departure of a lame duck president. He tells me there isn't. What do you expect the result to be in terms of legislation and the direction of the country?
ROYCE: Well we're finding to find an appropriations bill to put this amendment on. But the Democratic leadership has not allowed, this year, one appropriations bill to come before the House for fear it will either increase drilling, you know, increase our supply of gasoline, or do something that might force a vote on border security. And so this is unheard of in the history of the republic, not allowing one appropriates bill to come before the United States Congress.
DOBBS: Effectively, if I understand you correctly, the United States Congress is now shut down and we have a lame duck president.
ROYCE: That is exactly right, Lou.
DOBBS: I just want to be sure I understood as clearly as I could. Thank you very much.
ROYCE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Congressman Ed Royce. Coming up at the top of the hour, the "ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown.
Campbell, tell us what you're working on, please.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well Lou, coming up on the "ELECTION CENTER," maybe America hasn't made as much racial progress as we thought. We're going to dig in to a revealing new poll that seems to show the presidential race boils down to questions that really are black and white.
We'll also look at a necessary evil in politics, the practice of using surrogates to deliver the candidate's message. Even the big names can mess things up sometimes. We're going to show you what happens when they don't stay on message. Plus, some political stage craft you can really sink your teeth into. All on the "ELECTION CENTER" -- Lou.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, thank you very much, Campbell.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. The question tonight is: Do you believe the World Court order is a blatant intrusion into the sovereign affairs of the U.S. government?
Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here in just a few minutes.
And up next, chaos in the skies. What the U.S. flying public can look forward to as the entire airline industry tries to save itself and disregard as many passengers as possible. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our airline industry is a mess. It's a financial disaster as well. And the disaster is expected to worsen. Skyrocketing crude oil prices adding to what may be, may become an insurmountable list of problems. New information tonight showing just how desperate these airlines have become.
Carrie Lee has our reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Layoffs, grounded plays, fare hikes. U.S. airlines say they're doing everything they can to combat fuel price. It might not be enough.
RAY NEIDL, AIRLINE ANALYST, CALYON SECURITIES: The next 12 to 18 months are going to be wrenching.
LEE: Fitch Ratings, a credit agency says if prices hold study, "for most major carriers moving into 2009, multiple bankruptcies and liquidations are increasingly likely." Three regional airlines have gone bankrupt since March. And after Labor Day, major carriers will cut about 10 percent of their flights to focus on their most profitable results.
NEIDL: At minimal, to stay solvent, I estimate carriers to apply the 20/20 rule, 20 percent capacity cut, 20 percent ticket pricing increase.
LEE: That means passengers will pay more for fewer options if any at all.
CAPT. JOHN PRATER, AIR LINE PILOTS ASSN INTL.: Airlines cannot make money in many medium-sized communities and, now, even larger- sized communities. We're going to force people into cars and vans to drive two, three, 400 miles to get to an airport that has service.
LEE: When it comes to customer service, passengers are in a holding pattern. In some case, airlines opt for delays. American Airlines canceled a flight over the July 4th weekend when some passengers became irate after the flight crew arrived late.
A spokesperson for American tells LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, "experience tells us that a hostile environment such as this can sometimes, escalate, including inflight after takeoff. American Airlines determined that it was best to cancel the flight, put passengers in a hotel and let them continue on the next day after emotions had cooled."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEE: Now Captain Prater says the airline industry is simply not working anymore. He says some insiders are even questioning a business where airlines come and go, where carriers go bankrupt, where thousands of passengers and employees are left behind. And Lou, he says that we need more government intervention to ensure a solid air policy and to ensure an industry that serves this country adequately, which is obviously not happening.
DOBBS: For four years, I've been recommending that we regulate the American airline industry. What American Airlines just did, treating those people that way, I mean they ought to have the CEO ought to be slapped. It's ridiculous. It's an insult. And this industry is insulting Americans every day. Why we're tolerating this is beyond me.
There used to be a level of pride in this country that said, we're not going to be treated like this. Not by the TSA, not by the airline industry. These are ignorant fools running these airlines, and it's got to be fixed. It's that simple. It's just disgusting what's happening.
LEE: 180 degrees from the golden era, that's for sure.
DOBBS: Unbelievable.
Carrie, thank you very much, appreciate it.
Well, the pilots union for U.S. Airways is accuse the airline of putting passenger safety at risk in order to save money. The union says the airline is pressuring its pilots to fly with less fuel than they believe is safe to cut down on costs. A spokesman for the airline says eight senior pilots and the union have filed complaints with the Federal Aviation Administration.
Well, let's take a look at the poll results -- 93 percent of you say the World Court order is a blatant intrusion until the sovereign affairs of the U.S. government.
Now let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
Jenelle in Virginia said: "Dear Lou, I have a question for the candidates, short and to the point. Why don't you pander to the American people?"
A great question.
And Vicki in New Jersey: "We need to make our elected officials earn their paychecks. I don't think they should earn more until we do. I am now registering as an Independent voter. I don't trust either of the two candidates running for president."
And Tom in New Jersey: "Lou, thank you for covering the issues that are most important. I am 23 and I understand your independent perspective. You don't need to belong to any party to try to tackle the issues that are hurting our country."
And Diane in Florida said: "Hey, Lou, I want to thank you for opening my eyes. I was planning on being a lifelong Democrat, but now I'm a lifelong Independent. Until the American people stand up for their rights, nothing will change."
You're absolutely correct.
And Chris in Georgia said: "Lou, you know what I say about the sale of Budweiser to InBev? It's Miller time."
Well, I think that's a pretty good reaction.
Ralph in Tennessee said: "Lou, why are our politicians and government officials criticizing Middle Eastern countries for not controlling their borders when we cannot control our borders either?
And Barry in California: "Although I'm no longer a registered Republican, I still received a questionnaire in the mail and I knew you would love question number four. 'Should we do everything we can to stop Democrats from weakening border security?' Honestly if that's not an indicator of what is wrong with both parties, I don't know what is."
A great question and we thank you for sharing it with us.
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
Please join me on the radio Monday through Friday for "The Lou Dobbs Show." Among my guests tomorrow, Keith Richburg of "The Washington Post" joining me to discuss the presidential contest. I'll be talking about the influence of religious leaders in this race with Bishop Harry Jackson of the Hope Christian Church of Maryland. Go to loudobbsradio.com for the local listings in your area.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow.
For all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from New York.
The "ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown begins now -- Campbell.
