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Lou Dobbs Tonight
America's Budget Bust; Feds Will Rescue Mortgage Giants; McCain Blasts Obama's Energy Plan; Border Betrayal; Amnesty Agenda Protests Immigration Raids; FDA Slow on Drug Warnings
Aired July 28, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf.
Tonight, dire economic predictions from the White House. It projects one of the largest budget deficits ever, almost $490 billion next year and a likely rise in unemployment.
Also tonight, a devastating ruling for former border patrol agents Ramos and Compean and their families. A federal appeal's court rejects their appeal and allows their convictions to stand.
And tonight it took the FDA almost four months to trace the source of the current salmonella outbreak. A new report says the FDA can take months to act on potentially dangerous, off-label uses of prescription drugs. We'll have all that, all the day's news, much more from an independent perspective straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate and opinion for Monday, July 28th. Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
The White House today said the next president will face one of the largest budget deficits ever. The deficit is expected to grow to more than $480 billion in 2009. And the mortgage relief bill awaits President Bush's signature. The bill will help some homeowners, but it protects major lenders, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, even while the troubled mortgage giants continue to spend millions on congressional lobbyists and campaign donations. Our coverage begins tonight with Elaine Quijano at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four hundred eighty-two billion dollars, that's how much the U.S. government is expected to be in the red. In other words, how much more the government is spending than it is taking in. And add that to the debt what the U.S. already owes, $9.5 trillion and some say that's a recipe for financial disaster.
ROBERT BIXBY, THE CONCORD COALITION: The federal government has to pay interest costs, just like if you were borrowing on your credit card. You have to pay interest costs. And last year, we spent over $200 billion on interest alone. One reason that the budget deficit is a problem is that taxpayers have to pay more and more on the national credit card.
QUIJANO: And the deficit may not cover the entire costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
(SOUNDS)
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We make no apologies for the money we've spent to protect the people of this country.
QUIJANO: The Bush administration blames the higher than expected deficit on the slumping economy and the need for a $168 billion stimulus package meant to give the U.S. a financial shot in the arm.
JIM NUSSLE, OMB DIRECTOR: Getting the economy back on track was a higher priority than immediate deficit reduction.
QUIJANO: While the 482 billion is a record dollar amount, experts say as a percentage of the nation's economy, this deficit is a little over three percent, not nearly as high as the 6 percent in 1983.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: At the same time, the White House is painting a less rosy economic picture than it originally forecast, predicting higher than expected inflation, higher unemployment and slower economic growth over the next year -- Kitty?
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Elaine Quijano.
Well the struggling economy is also forcing the Bush administration to lower its economic growth forecast for this year and next. Now the new forecast says overall growth next year is expected to be around two percent, almost a full percent lower than the earlier projections. The administration said growth has slowed as a result of the sharp housing decline, disruptions in financial markets and high energy prices.
The mortgage relief bill will provide some help for about a million homeowners facing foreclosure. But the bill guarantees a federal bailout of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should they falter, and their troubled state has not forced the lenders to stop their expensive efforts to influence lawmakers. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congress has come to the rescue of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Once the president signs the Foreclosure Prevention Act into law, the Treasury Department can spend unlimited amounts of taxpayer dollars to prop them up, if necessary. But at a time when the mortgage giants are facing huge financial troubles, Fannie and Freddie still are helping host lavish convention parties.
SYLVESTER: This is a scene from a party at the 2004 Democratic Convention. Lobbyists and elected leaders hob-knobbing. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have asked that their names be taken off convention materials this year and they say they won't have a presence. But they are still paying for the convention parties, although they won't say how much.
SHEILA KRUMHOLZ, CTR. FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are trying to have it both ways. They're trying to both collect the credit with members of Congress who have jurisdiction over their firms. At the same time, they want to avoid public criticism for having bankrolled these parties at the convention.
SYLVESTER: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have each contributed more than $1 million to political candidates in the first three months of this year. The two spent more than $14 million lobbying Congress last year according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
SEN. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: The main reason that Congress did not provide the oversight and reforms that would have avoided the problems we're having right now is basically because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were paying hush money to the Congress.
SYLVESTER: Both institutions disagree. Quote, "Fannie Mae has significantly reduced its outside lobbying expenditures since 2004. We have consistently supported the enactment of legislation to provide stronger bank-like regulatory oversight of government-sponsored enterprises."
And from Freddie Mac, "Our financial position has nothing to do with lack of regulation or oversight. We are experiencing one of the worst housing economies in history and it's been challenging for most financial services companies who have mortgage operations."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Senator Jim DeMint tried but failed to get a ban on lobbying political activity by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac included in the Housing bill, but the Housing bill did create a new agency, the Federal Housing Finance Agency to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Senator DeMint not mincing words here. Hush money is pretty strong stuff, isn't it Lisa?
SYLVESTER: It is indeed. The point that Senator DeMint is making is that these two agencies, these two enterprises have been allowed to operate without regulation and all he wants to do here is to have a ban on lobbying. He says it's not fair that they are allowed to lobby. Other entities, government entities are not. But in this case, there's an exception that's been made for them.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Lisa Sylvester. Thanks Lisa.
Well federal regulators have shut down more troubled banks. The First National Bank of Nevada, which also operates as First National Bank of Arizona and First Heritage Bank were closed late on Friday. Now the Federal Deposit Insurance Company said all the depositors would have access to their money, including funds in excess of FDIC insurance limits. Mutual of Omaha Bank bought all the deposits and the failed banks reopened today as Mutual of Omaha branches. The FDIC says a total of seven banks have failed so far this year.
The House Minority Whip challenged Congressional Democrats today to act on energy legislation before they break for the August recess. Congressman John Boehner in an op-ed in the Website Real Clear Politics said Republicans have a strategy to reduce the high cost of energy. It's a single piece of legislation that includes dropping the ban on offshore drilling. Now Boehner said Republicans will vote against Congress going home if the Democrats don't allow a vote on the energy legislation. Congress is supposed to adjourn for summer recess at the end of this week.
Both presidential candidates today turned their focus from foreign affairs to the economy and Senator John McCain's economic team outlined their jobs for America plan as the senator continued his attack on Senator Obama's energy plan. Dana Bash reports from Washington -- Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Kitty you know the McCain campaign had to scrap a photo op at an oil rig off the coast of New Orleans last week. So today was a kind of another shot at that kind of imagery for the McCain campaign. And McCain did go to an oil field and he hit Barack Obama for opposing offshore drilling, among other things.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So Senator Obama opposes offshore drilling. He opposes reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel. He opposes storage of spent nuclear fuel, and so he is the Doctor No of the America's energy future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now McCain advisers are very eager to get back to this issue because it's one of the few that really looked promising for Senator McCain. CNN's latest poll shows nearly three quarters of Americans favor offshore drilling. So they're going to keep pounding away at Obama for opposing that. But Kitty it's interesting, McCain wasn't just hitting Obama today on economic issues. He reacted to the news of the nearly half a trillion dollar deficit by releasing a statement blaming President Bush for out-of-control spending -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Dana, there was a medical issue that took the spotlight away from the senator's focus on the economy. Tell us a little bit about that.
BASH: That's right. Senator McCain had a mole-like growth removed from his right cheek, which is the opposite side of his face where he had extensive surgery to remove melanoma, rather, back in the year 2000. Now McCain talked to reporters about it while he was actually standing at that oil field in California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MCCAIN: As I do every three months, visited my dermatologist this morning. She said that I was doing fine. Took out a small little nick from my cheek as she does regularly and that will be and will be biopsied just to make sure that everything is fine. But I want to again urge all Americans to wear sunscreen, particularly this summer. Stay out of the sun as much as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now a spokesman for the Mayo Clinic where Senator McCain went today, he issued a statement calling the procedure, quote, "minor and also routine". But, Kitty, the political reality is that even if it is nothing, which, of course, everyone is hoping it is, this is a reminder not only that McCain is a cancer survivor but also that he's going to be 72 years old next month and he'd be the oldest president ever elected. Polls show voters are concerned about that. McCain advisers know that very well -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Well, wear sunscreen. That's a policy everyone can agree with. Thanks very much, Dana.
BASH: That's true.
PILGRIM: All right. Coming up -- Senator Obama blasts the administration and promises to revive the nation's battered economy. We'll have that.
Also, is it yet another FDA failure? It can take months for the agency to issue warnings about unsafe uses of prescription drugs. We'll have a report on that.
And the federal appeals court hands down its decision on the conviction of former border patrol agents Ramos and Compean. We'll have the latest on that. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: A shocking development tonight in the case that we've been following closely on the program for years now. Former border patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean sentenced to lengthy prison terms for shooting and wounding an illegal alien drug smuggler. Well the smuggler, now a convicted felon, was given immunity by the federal government to testify against the two agents. And today, the federal appeals court has finally weighed in on the case. And Casey Wian has our story -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, former border patrol agents Ramos and Compean, their families and supporters have been waiting for more than seven months for the court of appeals to rule on their case. Today the judges did, unanimously upholding the convictions that led to the agents being sentenced to more than 10 years in prison. The 45-page decision is shocking to the agent's supporters because in December during the hearing before the appeals court, two of the three appellate judges raised serious questions about the government's prosecution of the agents. We spoke this evening with Ignacio Ramos' wife Monica (ph). She was in tears. She talked to her husband by phone from prison and she says he is in a great deal of shock and extremely concerned for their three young sons. Supporters were optimistic the judges would overturn the charge of using a firearm to commit a crime which carries a 10-year mandatory minimum sentence. Texas Congressman Ted Poe, also a judge himself, a former judge himself, released a statement saying "it was never the intent of Congress to have the 924c charge apply to law enforcement officers, carrying a firearm is a requirement of the job."
Congressman Duncan Hunter says Agents Ramos and Compean were convicted based on the testimony of a known drug dealer that has since been convicted for running drugs across the border. The fact that the drug dealer's criminal activity persisted even as he took the stand against the agents is reason enough to vacate these two convictions."
Congressman Brian Bilbray and Dana Rohrabacher both called on President Bush to immediately pardon the agents, which he has so far refused to do. Attorneys for both agents say they plan to begin legal proceedings for the court to reconsider its decision. And if that fails they'll likely take the case to the Supreme Court.
They are, however, encouraged the court did overturn the agents' convictions for obstruction of justice which could provide a legal avenue for the agents to challenge the entire decision. And Kitty, just seconds ago we got a statement from U.S. attorney in Texas Johnny Sutton (ph). We didn't get a chance to read that entire statement but he says predictably that he is pleased by the court's ruling. This validates his office's decision to prosecute these two agents -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: As he has done aggressively. The obstruction of justice issue, Casey, now does that give them an opening to overturn this? How do they proceed from here? What's next?
WIAN: There is some complicated legal maneuvering ahead. The way I understand it is that the attorneys have now 14 days to re- appeal this case, if you will, to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. They can appeal it to the same three judges who made this ruling.
They can also do an on-bunk (ph) appeal which is to all of the judges in the Fifth Circuit. If that fails, they can then reopen this case or attempt to reopen this case with a district court that convicted the agents because some of the charges were overturned, those charges that didn't carry as much jail time.
If that avenue fails, then they will likely take this all the way to the Supreme Court. They say they're not done fighting. Monica Ramos, Ignacio's family says to all of the supporters of the agents out there do not give up hope because they are going to continue to fight this case -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: There are avenues open. Thanks very much. Casey Wian. Thanks, Casey. This brings us to our poll question tonight: Now do you believe the appeal's court decision to uphold Ramos and Compean's sentence is an outrageous miscarriage of justice that should be corrected? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
Open borders amnesty advocates are again trying to block enforcement of laws that prohibit the employment of illegal aliens. Now hundreds of protesters descended on the tiny town of Postville, Iowa, over the weekend. And that's where in mid-May some 390 workers were picked up in the largest immigration raid at a single place of business in American history. And Mary Snow reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: No more raids.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On one side, hundreds of demonstrators chanted no more raids. Countering them, protesters said illegal immigrants should go home.
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: USA.
SNOW: The small farm town of Postville, Iowa, is a flash point in the debate over illegal immigration. Two months after federal agents raided this kosher meat packing plant. During the raid they arrested 389 illegal immigrants, most of them from Guatemala. Federal prosecutors say nearly two dozen of the workers who were rounded up were under the age of 18. Iowa's labor commissioner says he is investigating Agriprocessors for potential child labor violations as well as abusive work conditions. A member of the family that owns Agriprocessors faced cameras Sunday.
GETZEL RUBASHKIN, AGRIPROCESSORS: A lot of the stuff, those allegations have yet to be proven, a lot of the stuff is rumor, outright lies, a lot of stuff out there just floating around.
SNOW: But New Jersey Congressman Albio Sires has met with families involved in the raids.
REP. ALBIO SIRES (D), NEW JERSEY: I have to tell you in all of my years, this is the most shocking thing I have come across. You had to be there to see those people cry in front of you, the children crying. Kids asking me, when is my father coming home.
SNOW: While members of Congress tried to step in with some answers, a group opposing all illegal immigration says it wants the employers prosecuted but also wants to see the illegal immigrants pay a price.
IRA MEHLMAN, FED. FOR AMERICAN IMMIG. REFORM: The penalty ought to be deportation for having been here illegally in the first place and there are penalties. It's in fact a felony to use false documents in the United States. So they have to be held accountable as well.
SNOW: One union that's been trying to organize at Agriprocessors calls the plant the poster child of an immigration system that doesn't work.
MARK LAURITSEN, UNITED FOOD, COMMERCIAL WORKERS UNION: What you have is you have rogue operators like Agriprocessors who go out and exploit this, so they are exploiting a broken immigration system.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now a number of government agencies are investigating a spokesman for Agriprocessors said in a statement the company is cooperating with all investigations and is conducting its own probe. Now it also says it does not hire underage workers -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Mary, what happens to the people who were detained?
SNOW: Well some have been released for humanitarian reasons. Mothers of children and the people who were under 18 were released, but about 305 are still in custody. They've been charged, some convicted. Most are being sentenced to five months in prison and then after that face deportation.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Mary Snow.
Well up next, illegal aliens paying less than some American citizens for a college education. We'll have new developments tonight in a case that could change all that.
Also, another example of the FDA's unwillingness or inability to put your safety first. We'll have a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Coming up, Catholic bishops hold a massive conference to push their amnesty agenda for illegal aliens. We'll talk with one of the bishops leading that effort.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: An alarming new report tonight on the Food and Drug Administration's inability to protect the American public. Now the Government Accountability Office says it can take the FDA as long as seven months to issue a warning when it finds prescription drugs being used for unapproved treatments. Carrie Lee has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Millions of Americans who use prescription drugs may be putting themselves at risk without even knowing it. It's not unusual for drug companies to market medicines for unapproved uses, known as off-label in the drug industry, through direct advertising or sales representatives who meet with doctors. It is illegal, but the chance of getting caught is small.
A Government Accountability Office report finds just 44 Food and Drug Administration employees were assigned to review about 68,000 promotional materials from drug makers last year. When those workers did catch drug makers pushing product in this way, it took an average seven months to send a warning letter and another four months for the drug maker to react.
These FDA warnings are rare. A total 42 letters citing off-label drug use have been sent in the past five years. Senator Charles Grassley requested the GAO report.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: It seems to me that when the FDA does no more than say, they send out a letter so the drug companies stop something, that it's a get out of jail free card and promotes more promiscuity in the future.
LEE: Occasionally, action is taken. Pfizer agreed to pay $430 million for promoting off-label use of the anti-seizure drug Narontin in 2004. But the GAO concludes that overall, the FDA does not specifically capture off-label promotion, is unable to review all submissions because of the volume of material it receives and does not prioritize its review in a systematic manor.
LARRY MCNEELY, U.S. PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GRP.: As our health care system struggles with issues of cost and affordability, this is really the last time that we need drug companies trying to squeeze the consumer for an extra dollar here or a dollar there on drugs they don't even need.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEE: Now we spoke with an FDA official today. They've, of course, Kitty, seen this report. No specific comments, though on its findings and as we mentioned, Narontin (ph), other big names as well like Paxil for anxiety, some very major drugs mentioned in this report.
PILGRIM: Well it is clear 44 officials for 68,000 cases, the math just does not work.
LEE: There's no way they can cover it all, but you know these drugs even when a problem is cited with the advertising still on the market for almost a year.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Carrie Lee.
Well coming up, the final countdown is on, 100 days to the election and that might not be good news for Senator Obama. We'll explain.
Also a massive new effort to the advance of amnesty agenda for illegal aliens in this country, we will talk with a Catholic bishop at the center of that effort next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate and opinion. An independent view, here again, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Welcome back.
Now a recap of our top stories: A devastating ruling today for former border patrol agents Ramos and Compean and their families. A federal appeals court rejected their appeal, allowing their convictions to stand.
The White House today said the next president will face one of the largest budget deficits ever. The deficit is expected to grow over $480 billion in 2009 and unemployment is expected to rise. And those deficit projections just one of the factors having a negative impact on Wall Street today. Investors were also concerned about the shutdown of two regional banks by federal regulators.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed down 240 points.
Well, we are down to just 100 days until Americans go to the polls to pick out our next president. And Senator Obama is eight points ahead in a new Gallup poll with a big bounce from his overseas trip. But as he has been the cause for many presidential candidates in the past, being a front-runner in the last 100 days of the campaign can be problematic.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice over): They say a week is a long time in politics. A hundred days looks like forever. Everything could change. Or could it?
Let's see how accurate the polls were 100 days before the election for the last 50 years. In 3 out of 12 elections, the 100-day out Gallup polls were just about right.
1968, the midsummer poll predicted a close one. Republican Richard Nixon over Democrat Hubert Humphrey by two. Nixon won by one. 1972, the poll predicted a 26-point Nixon landslide. It was nearly that. Nixon beat Democrat George McGovern by 23. 2004, the poll showed a dead heat between George W. Bush and Democrat John Kerry. The election was close. Bush by three.
Six times the Gallup poll got the winner right but the margin was too big. In 1976, for instance, 100 days before the election, the Gallup poll showed Democrat Jimmy Carter leading Republican Gerald Ford by 22. Carter did win by two.
Only once did the 100-day poll understate the winner's margin. That was in 1984. The midsummer polls showed Reagan getting re- elected by 12. He did get re-elected by 18.
Have the 100-day polls ever gotten it wrong? Yes, twice. In 1960, Nixon led Democrat John Kennedy by six in midsummer. Kennedy ended up winning by less than a point. In 1988, Democrat Michael Dukakis was 17 points ahead of George Bush in late July -- the most famous blown lead in history. Usually, however, the 100-day poll gets the winner right but more often than not, the race gets closer. So where are we now? Barack Obama leads John McCain by eight points in the Gallup poll.
Looks like this one could be close.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Why is this race different from all other races? In every one of the last dozen presidential elections, either the president was running for re-election or the vice president was running to succeed him.
Now imagine what this race would look like if either George W. Bush or Dick Cheney were running this time. But they're not -- Kitty?
PILGRIM: Very, very interesting stuff. Thanks very much, Bill Schneider.
Well, with Senator Obama's tour of Europe and the Middle East behind him, the Democrat today shifted his attention from global politics to America's number one issue which is the economy.
Now Obama met in Washington with about a dozen economic advisers telling them he would move quickly to put place -- in place a second stimulus package to revive the sour economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The challenges we're facing could not be more critical. And if we want to meet them, then we can't afford, I believe, to keep on doing the same things that we've been doing over the last several years. We have to change course. Then we're going to have to take some immediate action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Well, among the economic luminaries at today's meeting were AFL-CIO president John Sweeney, former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker, three former treasury secretaries, billionaire Warren Buffett participated by speaker phone.
We have time now for some of your thoughts. And Dana in Pennsylvania wrote: "Since we have so many lobbyists and special interest groups and no representation in Congress, shouldn't we, the middle class, have our own lobbyists?"
Phil in Ohio wrote to us: "Lou, not only can't the government protect us, they seem to make it easier for foreign companies to do whatever they want."
And A.L. in Texas: "Dear Lou, if our federal government can't track an estimated 20 million illegal aliens from Mexico, just how in the heck can we the people expect our government to track food from there?" And Bob in North Carolina: "There is no doubt that we have the ability to deal with the food problem. What the government lacks is the will and the integrity to deal with it."
We'll have more of your e-mail later in the broadcast.
And up next, the Catholic Church takes its amnesty agenda to Washington. And we'll talk to Bishop Jaime Soto of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Also, later, an alarming new report on the state of this country's roads and bridges. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The illegal alien debate is on the agenda of the U.S. Catholic Church leaders meeting in Washington this week. Now it's a four-day session. It's advertised as a conference on migration and the need for immigration reform.
But the rhetoric is designed to protect those millions who have entered this country illegally. It's basically an amnesty agenda.
Joining me now is Bishop Jaime Soto who serves on the migration committee of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
And thank you very much for being with us, Bishop Soto.
BISHOP JAIME SOTO, CATH. BISHOPS CONF., MIGRATION COMTE.: Good evening, Kitty.
PILGRIM: You know, I'm looking at the Catholic Legal Immigration Network. It has 173 members. And its agency serves poor immigrants seeking family unification, citizenship and protection from persecution and violence.
Is it really basically about protecting illegal aliens living in the United States?
SOTO: It is. It is about the whole issue of immigration and refugee. And so we have one of the largest networks of providers for immigration and refugee services. So historically, we've served Vietnamese refugees, Cuban refugees, and we also serve immigrants -- and -- using the laws that are provided.
And so this is our opportunity to bring these people together and provide them some training on how to effectively provide those immigration and refugee remedies to the populations that are available.
PILGRIM: You know, you have the Department of Homeland Security assistant secretary for Immigration and Customs Enforcement Julie Meyers. She will address your conference...
SOTO: That's right. PILGRIM: ... I believe, tomorrow. Will you be talking to her about enforcing immigration law? Or will you ask her agency to stop arresting illegal aliens who are breaking the law? Which will it be?
SOTO: I think that there's going to be, obviously, a dialogue with the official and trying to -- we would like -- we're concerned about the enforcement only approach that is being used currently. And we question its real effectiveness and the disruption that it can oftentimes bring to a community.
And so this is an opportunity to ask some questions, to get some clarification and to see how best we can move forward.
PILGRIM: You know, I think many Americans, Bishop Soto, are concerned about the human side of the issue and it's irresponsible to suggest that they're not. However, the rule of law in this country is very important to many Americans and it is also very important for many Americans to know where you stand on this issue.
Do you uphold the rule of law in forcing immigration laws?
SOTO: Absolutely. And -- but I think it's important to realize that we all recognize that the immigration system right now is broken and that it needs to be fixed. And so -- particularly because we're involved oftentimes with the flesh and bone realities of how the immigration law affects people, that we can try to advocate for what we think will be a much more comprehensive immigration reform that will serve not only the immigrant communities but America as a whole.
PILGRIM: Bishop Soto, you were very involved in the '86 amnesty. It was really supposed to solve our illegal immigration problem and yet now in this country, we have some 12 to 20 mil million illegal aliens, again, living in the country.
And so, in fact, do you believe that the '86 amnesty did anything and how can you take the position that we have to move in that direction again?
SOTO: I think that the '86 immigration reform, IRCA, as it was called back then, was actually the legalization part of it, which was at that time also an earned legalization program, was very effective in terms of really bringing a significant population into American society.
PILGRIM: Fair enough. But what about now? There's yet another bulk of illegal immigrants drawn to this country. And do you believe that we should offer them amnesty also?
SOTO: Because the immigration system that we have continues to malfunction and doesn't serve the American economy, nor does it serve the, you know, immigrants coming in.
And to -- there is a demand for labor here in the country. And we would like to see an immigration reform that tries to address those issues to have a much more balanced and legal process for immigrants to respond to the labor -- the legitimate labor demands that are here in this country.
PILGRIM: You know many of the participants in this conference are going to go to Capitol Hill to lobby on Wednesday.
Is it appropriate for the Catholic Church to be lobbying lawmakers? And the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has filed as a 501c3 which is strictly limited in its lobbying.
So how do you reconcile that?
SOTO: Well, I think what we do in terms of advocacy or lobbying is really very minuscule in comparison to the amount of services that we provide both pastoral, spiritual, as well as social to the community.
But that experience of working in the community, I think, gives us some wisdom that we would like to share with Washington as to how best to serve the immigrant and refugee community here in the country.
PILGRIM: So you won't be lobbying, you'll be cheering with them?
Let me ask you one more thing. In -- there were 285,000 illegal aliens removed, and I believe that is the latest in the latest year. 97,000 criminal illegal aliens. That is the last fiscal year. Immigration and Customs Enforcement deported 285,000.
Do you oppose the removing of the criminal illegal aliens from this country?
SOTO: On the contrary I -- yes, I think that that -- those resources used to take those out who are a threat, and not only to the general society, but oftentimes prey on the immigrant communities themselves, that those individuals need to be removed.
And, unfortunately, oftentimes these more dragnet exercises, the raids, are expending valuable resources when those resources should be used to apprehend those who are preying on their own immigrant communities and threatening the rest of American society.
PILGRIM: Bishop Jaime Soto, thank you so much for joining us this evening.
SOTO: Thank you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. Do you believe the appeals court decision to uphold Ramos and Compean's sentence is an outrageous miscarriage of justice that should be corrected?
Coming up, it's the top of the hour, "THE ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown.
Campbell, what are you working on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, tonight, John McCain has just had more to say about that spot that a doctor removed from his face today. We're going to have the details on that.
Also, both presidential candidates like to portray themselves as Washington outsiders. But we've got a no-bias, no-bull look at the insiders and lobbyists that both of them, frankly, are rubbing elbows with.
All of that, plus the latest fallout from Obama's world tour coming up in a few minutes -- Kitty?
PILGRIM: Thanks, Campbell. We'll see you then.
Please join Lou on the radio, Monday through Friday, "THE LOU DOBBS SHOW."
Tomorrow Lou will be joined by Jeanne Cummings of Politico.com, Professor Elizabeth Warren of Harvard Law School on the economy, Anna Gaines, a retired teacher calling for a recall of Phoenix mayor Phil Gordon.
Go to loudobbsradio.com to find the local listings to "THE LOU DOBBS SHOW" on the radio.
And still ahead, students sue the University of California over tuition breaks for illegal aliens. We'll talk to the attorney leading the fight over this discriminatory policy.
Also a controversial plan to fix our crumbling infrastructure. We'll have a special report.
Stay with us.
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PILGRIM: After more than a decade of delays, major construction on a stretch of the San Diego border fence known as 'smugglers gulch" got resumed today. Original construction on the border fence started in 1996 but three miles were left unfinished because of lawsuits by environmental groups and bureaucratic hurdles.
And today Congressman Duncan Hunter, Brian Bilbray of California, longtime proponents of the fence, discussed its importance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: This is a fence that every family that's been touched by the tragedy of illegal narcotics or criminal elements coming across the border and hurting Americans on the north side of the border -- every one of those families has a stake in this border fence.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: The securing the border is not just an American crisis. It's also a Mexican crisis. When you are talking about a people that are crossing here, they are using up our Border Patrol agents and law enforcement on both sides because there hasn't been an appropriate barrier to stop them from doing that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The total cost of finishing the double fence, $42 million. It's expected to be finished in May of 2009.
Students are suing the University of California Board of Regents over reduced tuition for illegal aliens. They took their case today. The students are demanding that California stop the policy of granting illegal aliens in-state tuition while denying the same benefits to out-of-state U.S. citizens.
Kris Kobach, constitutional immigration professor at the University of Missouri, is one of the attorneys leading that case, and he joins us now from Sacramento.
Kris, you argued this case just a few hours before the justices. How did it go?
PROF. KRIS KOBACH, UNIV. OF MISSOURI: I think it went very well. The justices had some very serious questions for the opposing attorney -- the attorney representing the state of California -- because the state knew that it was on thin ice when it passed this law giving in- state tuition to illegal aliens because they were well aware that Congress have passed a statute in 1996 saying, hey, no state can give in-state tuition to illegal aliens unless you give in-state tuition to all U.S. citizens from all over the country.
PILGRIM: You know I was looking through some of the figures on this case. And on average, out-of-state tuition is four to six times higher than in-state tuition.
KOBACH: Yes.
PILGRIM: So a U.S. citizen not from the state has to pay four to six times more than an illegal alien attending school in that state.
Now how can they get away with treating illegal aliens better than U.S. citizens?
KOBACH: Well, hopefully, they won't get away with it if the appeals court goes the way we hope it will. But, you know, it's not only unfair to the student, the U.S. citizen, who's always played by the rules and lives in a neighboring state, and wants to go to a UC system or CSU or whatever, it's also unfair to the taxpayers of California because they're giving a taxpayer subsidy to somewhere between 25,000 and 26,000 illegal aliens in the system who are getting this break.
And when you add up how much that totals out to, it's over $200 million a year, it's estimated.
You know California is already in the red. This is a subsidy the taxpayer shouldn't be giving and don't need to be giving to illegal aliens to encourage them to stay here.
PILGRIM: Yes. And, in fact, it is an inducement to stay.
You know, Kris, I wanted to ask you, four years of this differential intuition is nearly $60,000.
KOBACH: Yes.
PILGRIM: So if you multiply your case out -- you have 100,000 current and former U.S. citizens represented in your class action, potential liability $6 billion.
How do you expect this to play out? That's a big number.
KOBACH: Well, you know, if the state legislature and the governor and folks in California in the halls of government were looking at this, they'd be saying, hey, we have to stop violating federal law now because every year that we continue to violate the law -- you're absolutely right, Kitty -- then you have more people coming into the system, more out-of-state students who are being unfairly discriminated against and they could potentially claim against the state.
So, you know, really, they need to stop violating the law now because their liability grows and grows but they seem oblivious this in Sacramento.
PILGRIM: Yes. Let's talk about the 10 other states that also allow this, which is pretty much an eye opener for a lot of people. You tried a similar case in Kansas. Basically, how will your decision here affect other state, I guess? Will it be -- have broad repercussions?
KOBACH: Well, it may have repercussions. The suit in Kansas actually was in federal court. And the federal court has different rules of standing, which is a doctrine that determines who can get into the courthouse or not, and the court said, no, these students don't have standing.
But what is clear is that this court in California -- this suit in California is in state court. And there, the rules of standing are more permissive. The court is going to get to the merits, we anticipate, you know, get to the question of whether California is violating federal law, violating equal protection clause.
And so what happens here will definitely have a repercussion in the other nine states. And I think if the court were to decide that California is violating federal law, which it clearly is, then I think the other nine states will be brushed back a little bit and say hey, we better take a second look at this.
PILGRIM: You know this has to be very galling for many students who are struggling to find the means to go to school, especially this year, with finances being so tight for many American families.
Let's broaden out beyond the tuition issue. You say that this violates other federal immigration laws also, doesn't it?
KOBACH: It does. For example, it violates the immigration laws that make it -- make the alien's presence unlawful. In other words, the state of California is in conflict with federal law. Federal law tells the alien, go home, you're not supposed to be in the country. But the state of California is telling the alien, hey, stay here, we'll give you a subsidy worth about $60,000, we want you in our state. So it's undermining federal law.
You know one of your guests in a previous time said the system is broken. Now the laws on the books are just fine, but what's broken is when you have a state like California undermining federal law, giving people financial incentive to break federal law.
We shouldn't be rewarding those who break federal law. If we're going to subsidize anyone, we should subsidize U.S. citizens who are mortgaged to the hilt. You know the average person today comes out of college with almost $20,000 in loans, in student loans. And there are lots of Americans who can't afford to go to college.
We should not be subsidizing who are breaking federal law.
PILGRIM: Very well stated. Thank you very much for coming on the program to -- explain it for us, Kris Kobach.
KOBACH: My pleasure.
PILGRIM: Thank you very much, Kris.
Up next, new efforts to fix our aging and crumbling infrastructure. We'll a special report on that. Stay with us.
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PILGRIM: An alarming new report tonight on the state of this country's crumbling infrastructure. Federal highway officials say one in four of the nation's bridges is in desperate need of repair and it will take more than $100 billion to fix them.
Now the report comes almost one year after the Minneapolis highway bridge collapse. Dozens of cars were plunged into the Mississippi river, 13 people were killed, 145 others were injured.
Now there are new efforts to make sure such a tragedy doesn't happen again and to modernize our infrastructure.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Little has been done since the collapse of this bridge on Interstate 35 in Minneapolis shocked the country into an awareness of an aging and crumbling infrastructure -- one-quarter of our bridges structurally deficient.
The average age of a bridge, 43 years, according to a report of the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials.
Pennsylvania's governor, Ed Rendell, who also now chairs the National Governor's Association, used the report's release to call for a renewed focus on the national infrastructure.
GOV. EDWARD RENDELL (D), PENNSYLVANIA: The report released by AASHTO makes it abundantly clear that America has to get going and seriously consider all of its transportation infrastructure, but particularly the repair and revitalization of its bridges.
TUCKER: According to the Federal Highway Administration, the bill to repair just the bridges would be $140 billion. But it is not just the bridges that need attention. Many roadways are overcrowded, many in desperate need of repair, and new roads need to be built.
The entire national infrastructure system is a mess. The head of infrastructure for the Government Accountability Office offered the Senate Finance Committee this blunt assessment in early July.
JAYETTA HECKER, GOVT. ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE: It doesn't have clear goals, it doesn't have clear roles for different levels of government, it doesn't have performance built in, it doesn't have accountability, and it's not sustainable.
TUCKER: The states receive federal highway dollars to maintain their roadways but those federal dollars are insufficient. The report from the state highway and transportation officials calls for increased revenue options, including higher taxes, toll roads, road user fees and more private investment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now Governor Rendell is on the record he's favoring privatization of many roadways in his state to raise the dollars necessary to fund the improvements.
Kitty, there's no lack groups arguing various positions and to how to fix the problem and tomorrow we get a report from the Government Accountability Office where they review some of those proposed -- proposals. We get an idea of what's going to happen.
PILGRIM: You know, this is a very controversial issue, this issue of private investment and some see it as very much a short term fix. Don't they, Bill?
TUCKER: Well, yes. You sell off the roadways at lease for a one time infusion of cash that the states then use to do the needed repairs, but you can only do that once every 75 or 99 years. It is a big center of debate in the community right now because its a way to raise money that is badly needed to do this. So this conversation is not going to die down. It will heat up as a matter of fact as more and more states get in the action. Not only to repair existing roads, but in fact to build new roads.
PILGRIM: And in the times of the tax revenue falling short in this times of economic times, its extremely difficult to fix.
TUCKER: Well, the Federal Highway Trust Fund has been the traditional source of funding for road improvements and ironically as gas prices have gone up, tax receipts have fallen because people have quit driving. So the Federal Highway Trust Fund has been losing money and the Congress is in the middle of a bill trying to balance that now so it doesn't run out of money by the time the bill expires in September of next year.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bill Tucker -- Thanks, Bill.
Tonight's poll results: Ninety-seven percent of you believe the appeals court's decision to uphold Ramos and Compean's sentence is an outrageous miscarriage of justice that should be corrected.
Time now for some of your thoughts. Gene in Arkansas wrote: "The FDA acknowledgement that produce from Mexico is the cause of the salmonella outbreak in this country begs the question: How long has the FDA had the information?"
And Marcy in Tennessee wrote to us: "The media bias does not persuade me to follow their lead. If anything, it drives many level headed Americans in the opposite direction. You're a breath of fresh air." We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
Thanks for being with us tonight. From all of us here, good night from New York. "THE ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown starts right now -- Campbell?
BROWN: Thanks, Kitty.
