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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Race and Politics; Pessimism in the USA; Crooks in Congress; Many States are in a Financial Crisis; Raging Drug Violence in Mexico
Aired July 31, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Tonight, the presidential campaign turning nasty, Senators McCain and Obama trading charges on the issue of what else, race. We'll have complete coverage.
And tonight lawmakers grilling the government's top food safety official, Dr. David Acheson, about the FDA's utter failure to stem the tide of the nationwide salmonella outbreak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS: The fact remains that after the FDA did their work, after they finally found the problem, it's Friday. And on the Lou Dobbs when the commentator asked the reporter well what are you -- what is the FDA recommending that consumers do to protect themselves. Well ask, ask where the peppers were bought. We didn't have the -- even the ability to say no more imported peppers for at least this weekend until we figure out this problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The chairman of that committee, Congressman Bart Stupak, among our guests here tonight.
And tonight rising concern about Mexico's out of control drug cartel wars and the threat they represent to the United States. We'll have an exclusive report on our government's efforts to help Mexico fight those violent drug cartels. We'll have all of that, all the day's news and much more from an independent perspective, straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Thursday, July 31st. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Senator McCain today accused Senator Obama of playing the race card. The charge coming one day after Senator Obama declared Senator McCain is trying to scare voters by pointing out that Obama does not look like past presidents. The Obama campaign called McCain's assertion ridiculous. An Obama adviser said the McCain campaign is using low politics to distract voters from what he called the real issues.
We have extensive coverage tonight and we begin with Dana Bash reporting from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The issue of race exploded on to the presidential campaign trail with this statement from John McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis.
"Barack Obama has played the race card and he played it from the bottom of the deck. It's divisive, negative, shameful and wrong."
He was referring to Obama's comments at three different Missouri campaign stops Wednesday, reacting to McCain's increasingly negative tone with a various of this.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nobody really thinks that Bush or McCain have a real answer for the challenges we face. So what they're going try to do is make you scared of me. You know, he's not patriotic enough. He's got a funny name. You know he doesn't look like all those other presidents on those dollar bills, you know.
BASH: In an exclusive interview with CNN's John King, McCain said it's fair to accuse Obama of playing the race card.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm sorry to say that it is. It's legitimate and we don't -- there's no place in this campaign for that. There's no place for it and we shouldn't be doing it.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They say that's not the case.
MCCAIN: OK, John.
KING: OK.
MCCAIN: I'll let the American people judge.
BASH: That even as McCain's own campaign was aggressively calling reporters to push and explain their race card charge. Adviser Steve Schmidt calling Obama's remarks a disgusting accusation. Saying this campaign will not allow John McCain to be smeared in this way. An Obama spokesman responded by saying Barack Obama in no way believes that the McCain campaign is using race as an issue. But he does believe they're using the same old low-road politics to distract voters.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now the reality is that dating back to the Democratic primary, Obama has often warned that his opponents would use race against him, but the McCain campaign is trying to be much more aggressive in laying down markers against Obama and this one really is protective. That if race is an issue in this campaign, the McCain campaign and his advisers say Obama is the one who brought it up -- Lou. DOBBS: Well is this a place for objective, journalistic assessment of reality? In point of fact, in three places Senator Obama drew attention to the absolute issue of race. Did he not?
BASH: He certainly seemed to. He didn't do it explicitly rather. He certainly suggested it. And I'll tell you what the McCain campaign insists is that they actually got calls from reporters asking for a response to those comments. And that's one of the reasons they say that they decided to be as aggressive as they were this morning.
DOBBS: All right. Dana, thank you very much -- Dana Bash.
New questions tonight about Senator Obama's comments about not looking like past presidents on dollar bills, as Dana Bash just reported on three separate occasions. Surely no one would confuse a 46-year-old black man with a much older white men on our dollar bills, or would they? Let's take a look starting with the $1 bill, which shows an image of our nation's first president.
Does anyone seriously believe Senator Obama looks anything like George Washington? And what about our $5 bill, which shows Abraham Lincoln, our sixteenth president, still no comparison whatsoever between Obama and Lincoln.
By the way, would you like to consider the $10 bill, which has a picture of Alexander Hamilton, who incidentally wasn't president, our first Treasury secretary. Here's how Senator Obama would look on the $10 bill. We should note that Obama is running for president, not Treasury secretary.
And when it comes to the $20 bill, the image is Andrew Jackson, our seventh president, a distinguished military commander. Surely Obama wouldn't want voters to believe he is in the league as Jackson, at least not yet. That would be immodest.
And there's our $50 bill picturing President Ulysses Grant, another war hero from the Civil War. Here's how Obama would look on the 50. You can make your own judgments of course about whether Obama looks like either a president, a military leader or a Treasury secretary.
Here's the $100 bill, which features an image of one of our founding fathers, of course Benjamin Franklin. How would he look on that? Take a look for yourself. One thing is certain even if Senator Obama becomes president, it will be up to future generations to decide whether or not he actually deserves to be shown on our dollar bills alongside those other famous Americans.
We have also not insisted upon asking the question does George W. Bush look anything like those presidents on our currency? We'll leave that for future generations as well.
Senators Obama and McCain trading charges today on the issue of race, as we've reported. Working men and women at the same time are becoming increasingly concerned about the state of our country. a new CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll showing the number of Americans who believe things are going well has simply plummeted to the lowest level in nearly three decades. Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): That's not just a greeting from a Budweiser commercial, it's also a question that polls have been asking for 35 years. How well are things going in the country today? The answer right now yikes, fewer than a quarter of Americans believe things are going well, the lowest numbers since the spring of 1980 when the country faced recession, rising energy crisis and a hostage crisis.
Turns out that question is a pretty good political indicator, in the fall of 1980, 32 percent said things were going well. President Carter lost. 1992, 35 percent said things were good. The first President Bush went down. Good times?
That would be 1984 when it was morning in America, 74 percent thought times were good. Ronald Reagan reelected. Times stayed good through 1988 when Reagan's vice president won. Nearly 70 percent thought things were good in 1996 when Bill Clinton won a second term. With only 24 percent of Americans happy right now, Barack Obama is running hard on the change issue.
OBAMA: We have to change course and then we're going to have to take some immediate action.
SCHNEIDER: But John McCain asks what sort of change.
MCCAIN: I believe that in a troubled economy when folks are struggling to afford the necessities of life higher taxes are the last thing we need.
SCHNEIDER: Why is the election closer than it should be with so many unhappy voters? Take a look at those unhappy voters. They really don't like President Bush and they really do like Senator Obama and Senator McCain, they kind of like him, too.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: But not as much as Obama, which is why Obama is leading, but it's far from a slam dunk -- Lou.
DOBBS: Define, because I get nervous when I hear anyone use the expression now "slam dunk"...
SCHNEIDER: Oh yes, we should.
DOBBS: What is a slam dunk? We look at those polls, whether we are looking at swing state polls, whether we're looking at most likely voter polls. We're not seeing anything even -- approaching anything beyond the margin of error here. And Senator Obama is supposed to be kicking you know the grizzled old Republican guy all over the court.
SCHNEIDER: A slam dunk would be like 1984 when Ronald Reagan was reelected by 18 points or even 1996 when Clinton won by I think seven or eight points, those were elections that were never really close and the mood of the country was not nearly as low as it right now. That's why this whole thing is a bit surprising that the election is...
DOBBS: Yes.
SCHNEIDER: ... as close as it is.
DOBBS: And may I say what's really interesting and in a way even charming, it's the national media, if you will, main stream media that seems to be so surprised by it all.
Bill, thank you very much -- Bill Schneider.
President Bush today focusing on an issue that is a major concern for all voters, the war in Iraq, the president officially declared the surge is ended, saying it's a chief, what he called, a degree of durability in security improvements. President Bush said troop withdrawals from Iraq can resume so long as those security gains continue. But Defense Secretary Roberts Gates indicates the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, General David Petraeus, probably won't speed up his 45-day review of conditions there so the military can send reinforcements into Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: General Petraeus' timeline is tied strictly to Iraq and has nothing to do with, as far as I know, nothing to do with Afghanistan. Whether he takes the full 45 days or not, I don't know. We'll see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The number of our troops killed in Iraq each month has fallen to the lowest level of the entire war. Eleven of our troops killed this month, six of them in combat. That compares with a total of 29 troops killed last month and 80 of our troops who were killed in July of last year. Four thousand one hundred twenty-seven of our troops have been killed in Iraq since the war began.
Still ahead, Senator Ted Stevens appears in court after a corruption investigation and seven charges against him. If convicted, Stevens would join a long list of convicted former members of Congress who by the way are still receiving generous pensions funded of course by you. We'll have that special report.
States across the country facing a severe budget crisis now, a crisis that could inflict even more economic and financial pain on middle class Americans, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senator Ted Stevens today pleaded not guilty to federal corruption charges. The Republican from Alaska accused of lying about accepting more than a quarter of a million dollars worth of gifts, renovations to his Alaskan home and not reporting them. The 84-year- old Stevens is the Senate's longest serving Republican.
If convicted, he faces five years in prison for each of the seven counts, but even if according of all charges, Senator Stevens will likely still keep his congressional pension. According to the National Taxpayer's Union, that pension would pay the senator at least 122,000 a year in retirement.
Senator Stevens if convicted would not be the only congressional felon to keep his pension. Many convicted congressmen are now collecting their pensions and you're paying for it.
The new congressional ethics bill tried to change that but apparently it didn't go far enough as Lisa Sylvester now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Congressman Dan Rostenkowski, James Traficant, Duke Cunningham and Bob Ney what do they all have in common? They all are convicted felons who are still receiving generous pensions paid for by you the taxpayer. Together their pension totals more than $250,000 every year for the rest of their lives.
REP. MARK KIRK (D), ILLINOIS: When we get elected to Congress, we should be held to the highest standard. And I think that means that if you are convicted of a public integrity felony, you should not have a right to your pension.
SYLVESTER: Since 1980, 20 lawmakers have been convicted of serious crimes and are still collecting taxpayer funded pensions. Last year Congress passed a law banning lawmakers convicted of certain felonies from receiving their pensions, but the law doesn't apply retroactively. And it includes only 11 types of felonies and leaves off many others like income tax evasion.
Prosecutors say Senator Ted Stevens made false statements regarding $250,000 in gifts and house renovations he received from corporate executives. He pleaded not guilty, but if convicted, he would still be eligible to receive his pension.
MELANIE SLOAN, CITIZENS FOR RESPONSIBILITY & ETHICS: Here we are in a situation where the very first time out of the box that this law applies and it done apply to Ted Stevens because this particular crime committing false statements doesn't count. It's not one of the crimes for which you'll lose your pension benefits.
SYLVESTER: Representative Mark Kirk has introduced legislation to close the loopholes. It would broaden current law so that any federal lawmaker who commits a felony that violates the public trust would not get to retire on the taxpayers' dime. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Senator Ted Stevens is the Senate's longest serving Republican and the National Taxpayers Union calculates that if he left office this year, he would be eligible to receive $122,000 pension every year for the rest of his life -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester.
Well over the past 50 years members of Congress has been convicted of at least 16 different felonies including fraud, conspiracy, racketeering, extortion, drug possession. One member was even convicted of manslaughter. Former Congressman Bill Janklow, a Democrat from South Dakota, was convicted of striking and killing a motorcyclist with his car in 2003. He was sentenced to 100 days in prison.
Congressman William Jefferson still awaiting charges, trial on charges of racketeering and money laundering. The Louisiana Democratic congressman still serving in the House. He is accused of soliciting more than $400,000 in bribes. He was indicted in June last year.
The charges came two years after federal agents raided Jefferson's Washington home. During their investigation, found $90,000 in cash stuffed in his freezer. They also raided his office. That was ruled unconstitutional. Jefferson has denied any wrongdoing.
Our reporting and thousands or your e-mails have finally led Congress to do something about the salmonella outbreak in this country. We'll have that story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A severe bunch of crisis for state governments all across the country, a new threat to our beleaguered middle class. That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: America's struggling middle class facing yet more challenges, short falls in state budgets likely to result in reduced state services, which could also result in higher expenses for families, higher taxes.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 10,000 state employees in California lost their jobs with the stroke of this pen. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed the order laying the workers off, reducing 200,000 employees to a wage of $8 an hour, the state's minimum wage, halting all overtime except for public safety and medical personnel and instituting a hiring freeze. GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: We have a lot of problems, (INAUDIBLE) budget problem, but also a problem with our dysfunctional budget system and also declining economy.
TUCKER: In New York, Governor Paterson called for a special session of the state legislature as he announced a projected three- year budget deficit of more than $26 billion.
GOV. DAVID PATERSON (D), NEW YORK: We certainly did not expect for such a mammoth collapse in the revenues.
TUCKER: According to the National Governors Association, 13 states so far this year have been forced to reduce inactive budgets because of rising costs and falling revenues. Sales taxes are falling. People aren't buying homes, selling homes, furnishing homes or remodeling homes. Unemployment is rising, payroll tax revenues falling and states are responding by tightening their belts.
ARTURO PEREZ, NAT'L CONF. OF STATE LEGISLATURES: We've noticed that states have not pursued tax increases to the extent that they used to and instead have relied on budget balancing measures such as program cuts or spending reductions.
TUCKER: It's tough and it's ugly. The cuts from education first followed by social services. Perhaps the most realistic assessment of it came from New Jersey's Governor Jon Corzine earlier this year as he summed up his state's situation.
GOV. JON CORZINE (D), NEW JERSEY: Pigs will fly over the State House before there's a realistic level of new taxes or spending cuts that can fix this mess.
TUCKER: There are some states not standing in the mess because rising agricultural and energy prices produce higher tax receipts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now those states are enjoying budget surpluses and while the situation in general is not as dire as it was in 2001 through 2003, the Governors Association warns Lou that state budgets typically lag and downturns and of course lag as the economy recovers.
DOBBS: Well for example, states like California and New York are in desperate trouble.
TUCKER: Right.
DOBBS: And there is no way to extend the Jon Corzine's analogy, the governor of New Jersey. There's no way you could put enough lipstick on that pig to dress it up in any way.
Bill, thank you very much.
DOBBS: Let's take a look now at some of your thoughts. Thousands of you e-mailing us about Mexico being the source of the salmonella outbreak. Holly in California said: "Dear Lou, after almost four months, 1,300 people sickened, hundreds hospitalized and many millions of dollars in losses to America's tomato growers and packers, the FDA has finally announced what I as a daughter of a tomato packer knew on the day -- on day one of the salmonella outbreak. The source is not American growers, but irrigation water in Mexico."
Norm in Missouri: "Lou, you have been right all the way on the salmonella issue. Everyone in the produce industry knew Mexico was the source. Our growers need to be treated fairly and they need to be compensated for their losses."
And Ken in California said: "Why am I not surprised that the salmonella came from Mexico? Because we have the best government that foreign interests can buy, that's why." I wish I could argue with you.
We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. E- mails like those keeping the nationwide salmonella outbreak in the public eye. It's an outbreak that may have sickened as many as 40,000 people. We'll have that story in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate and opinion. Here again Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: The raging drug violence in Mexico today taking a brutal and deadly toll. Police reporting six members of a single family, including two children were savagely murdered in a house that once belonged to Mexico's agriculture minister. Mexican officials are struggling to combat the well armed and trained drug cartels.
And they're turning now to the United States for further help. The Drug Enforcement Administration is training Mexican law enforcement agents to fight the cartels.
Casey Wian has our exclusive report from the DEA's training facility at Quantico, Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Open the door, shout these Mexican federal police officers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WIAN: Forty-six federal (INAUDIBLE) are halfway through an intense five-week people in training program not in Mexico, but at the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration's Quantico, Virginia training facility. (on camera): This is Hogan's Alley, a mock city where agents train to face a variety of hostile situations. Today Mexican federal police officers are going to learn how the DEA raids a house.
(voice-over): They begin in the classroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) We have lost agents just like you have. And we're just trying get the word out. We want more of you coming home every night.
WIAN: Then move to the field.
(SOUNDS)
WIAN: We've agreed to conceal the officers' identities because when they return home, they'll be face to face with Mexico's violent drug cartels who have killed more than 450 law enforcement agents during the past 19 months.
JOHN MCCARTY, DEA SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Working narcotics is an extremely dangerous enterprise both for the trafficker and especially the law enforcement officer that targets these traffickers. Obviously there is a lot of motivation with regard to movement of money and drugs between the border and stemming that tide is going to make a lot of people angry.
WIAN: Mexican cartels are well known for recruiting hit men with law enforcement or military training. The DEA says these officers are closely prescreened. They undergo criminal and human rights background checks, polygraph exams, and drug testing. Still we wondered if the DEA is concerned it could be training future adversaries.
MCCARTY: Each of these officers is known to other office. We feel confident that they are the people we need to be contacting and working with. The Mexican government is working very closely with our government to ensure that the folks we do train stay on the right side of the law.
WIAN: So far, the DEA says it has trained 551 Mexican police officers during the past decade. The total cost about $3 million. One goal of the program which the DEA asked us not to name because it's so sensitive is to ease the tension and mistrust between the United States and Mexico over who is to blame for the drug cartel war.
DENNIS BOOTS, DEA ACADEMY SR. INSTRUCTOR: As we're working with our counter parts down in Mexico, and as they progress through their ranks, that we'll be able to have better cooperation and sharing of information.
WIAN: Soon these agents will return to the front lines of a war that's killed more than 4,000 people Mexico. And spreading across the border to cities in the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WIAN: And the Merida Initiative which is separate from this DEA program will provide more than $1 billion in military equipment and training for Mexican police in Mexico. Supporter say efforts like these are evidence of improved cooperation between the United States and Mexico. Skeptics though point to the rapidly spreading violence and wonder if these programs are just too little too late -- Lou?
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wain.
Well, lawmakers outrage the former boarder patrol agents. Ramos and Compean were convicted of shooting and wounding an illegal alien drug smuggler given immunity to testify against those agents. He became the government's star witness, and roll under that immunity from the U.S. attorney.
The prosecution he continued to smuggle drugs into this country. And that evidence was withheld from the jury at the order of the trial judge. This ring a federal appeals to court. Reversed Ramos and Compean's conviction on obstruction of justice charges but upheld the weapons charges against them.
The letter to the White House signed by 75 members of Congress, most of them Republicans, saying the law was misapplied asking the president to commute the sentences of these two former border patrol agents.
Well, should top FDA officials be fired because of their inapt response to our nationwide Salmonella outbreak? That special report is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Food and Drug Administration today refusing to admit mistakes were made in its handling of this country's worst Salmonella outbreak in a decade. Yesterday, the FDA did admit what we've been reporting here for more than a month that the source of the salmonella outbreak is indeed Mexico.
That admission coming as the number of people sickened climbing to more than 1300 across 43 states in Washington D.C. The actual number because there is a 30 to 40 multiplier against officially reported cases could amount to 30,000 to 40,000 Americans.
Finally, after dozens of reports here and thousands of your e- mails to us and to Congress, Congress took action. Louise Schiavone has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Food and Drug Administration was in the hot seat for a second day on Capitol Hill under fire for a Salmonella outbreak on going for three and a half months.
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: You don't have to be a detective to know that the initial investigation didn't really help anybody. SCHIAVONE: So far, the outbreak has triggered more than 1300 recorded illnesses with more cases still coming in. At $100 million to warm losses to U.S. tomato growers all the while say several lawmakers, the wrong produce targeted.
So far, the evidence of the outbreak bacteria has been found only peppers and irrigation water in Mexico.
BURGESS: On the Lou Dobbs Show when the commentator asked a reporter, "Well, what is the FDA recommending to consumers do to protect themselves?" We didn't have even the ability to say, no more imported peppers.
SCHIAVONE: In repeated exchanges, the FDA's David Acheson would not retreat from the government's first implication of tomatoes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I don't declare the tomato.
DR. DAVID ACHESON, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: At this point there is nothing for FDA to say that would indicate that evidence that CDC and the state generated early on this investigation is incorrect.
SCHIAVONE: The FDA and the Centers for Disease Control insisted their questionnaires established an unmistakable early link to tomatoes. Questionnaires which early on ask lots of questions about tomatoes, but nothing about jalapenos or Serranos. For example, the CDC outbreak questionnaire obtain by LOU DOBBS TONIGHT goes on at length about tomatoes asking did you eat any raw, uncooked tomatoes? Did you eat raw tomatoes as part of fresh salsa, guacamole, or pico de gallo?
REP. DIANA DEGETTE (D), COLORADO: That form never asked one question about peppers, and I'm wondering why. Now, I will tell you as someone who myself is from the southwest. I never made salsa without putting peppers in it.
SCHIAVONE: The CDC promised to look into it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lou, lawmakers asked the FDA if the Salmonella outbreak had been a bio-terrorism attack. How would the FDA have changed its approach? The FDA said David Acheson would not be the lead investigating agency but its procedures otherwise would be the same -- Lou?
DOBBS: That is about as troubling an answer as one could expect. I mean, the idea that these questions didn't even have rational answers. I mean, that's amazing. We're going to talk in just a moment with the chairman of that committee. Louise, again, outstanding reporting throughout. We appreciate it. Louise Schiavone.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight: The question is do you believe the FDA leadership should be fired for failing to protect the American consumer? Yes or no. We would like to hear your thoughts on this. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
Congressman Bart Stupak is the chairman of the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigation that held today's hearing. And Congressman Stupak joins us now live from Capitol Hill.
Congressman, what I'm saying you've just arrived from having taken a vote. But let's turn to that hearing. I have to say, first, commend you for your leadership on this issue.
Also, your patience, your frustration threshold is incredible. These are some of the most arrogant and incompetent federal officials I have ever seen?
STUPAK: Well, you have to have patients there's no doubt when you're doing this. But this is our ninth hearing already on food safety in 18 months. I mean, they completely, constantly the same errors, same errors, same errors and they just don't really work with anyone. They don't share information. They don't reach out to industry. Industry is trying to do things. And it's just a lack of coordination and communication.
DOBBS: You know, when we start with the proposition that it took four months to get to where we are. And it's very unclear to me, if you can help us out, Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate it. But we basically have a couple of peppers, irrigation water that tested positive at a farm, in actually a number of farms in Mexico for salmonella, St. Paul Strain. And we saw having a clear statement from the FDA on any of this to the American public.
STUPAK: Well, not only that but they continue to hold our farms -- American farmers hostage. They continue to say -- well, tomatoes are still suspect. The tomatoes never should have been suspect in the first place if they would have done their homework. And I think you said that some time ago, Lou, when we first started doing this investigation, I think you put the vet out there that it would be probably south of our border, not the farmers in this country but all this food we're importing without being inspected or look at.
DOBBS: And just so to be clear about why I did say that weeks and weeks ago, it's not because for any other reason than the fact that it was very clear to everyone obviously analyzing what was happening.
The only two sources for the tomatoes that could have, in this case, and one was Central Florida and the other was Mexico. Central Florida, by logic, was taken out of it. Mexico remain and we knew the Mexican government was protecting as they do thinking that that would be the solution.
(CROSSTALK)
STUPAK: But you said it by logic, Florida should have been excluded in this Salmonella. But they weren't. And they continued to say the tomato is still suspect. I totally disagree. I think the FDA, the CDC owe at least an apology to the tomato growers in this country and about $100 million in lost profit. They basically destroyed this year's crop because they didn't do their work.
DOBBS: And how about the thousands and thousands of Americans sickened, and some of them with lasting a disastrous effect as a result of contracting salmonella. From an agency that is in Cahoots in nearly every regard, with the same industry, the grower's agency that does not want to be regulated or go through inspections, and have been aided and abetted by Congresses of both parties for the past 20 years.
STUPAK: Well, we're actually working on a global food and drug safety bill right now. We'd been negotiating with the industry since April. We just completed the drug part of it and we're into the food safety. And any kind of fees that would be associated with inspection. They don't want to pay. That seems to be the big hang up and you saw it in the hearing today. Restaurant Associations, others, do not want to pay it.
But, man, someone has got to take responsibility here for the health and safety of our food supply in this country. And we were talking a few pennies to put the codes on there so we could have traceability, and there's no excuse for this. We cannot continue to have every six month an outbreak, and thousands of people becoming ill.
DOBBS: Congressman, I want to compliment you for taking leadership on this issue and a number of others for the safety and the well-being of our consumers in this country. At the same time, we -- it is so crystal clear to anyone not living in that city, at least, and anyone concerned about the American people that there is a relationship between the food industry, the Growers Associations and Congress that defies imagination.
The fact is that with doubling the pay of men and women working in our produce fields, it would only add ten cents to the cost of a head of lettuce. Tomato growers, pepper growers, or importers, exporters to this country from Mexico or any other country, the fees that they would charge, whether they like it or they don't like it, either hold the prize, the treasure that is the American people up and say, if you want to be part of a $14 trillion economy, then this is the price you'll pay. It is not a give away. And there is no responsibility on the part of our Congress and the elected representatives of the American people to tolerate their nonsense.
STUPAK: Well, not only that, Lou. Back in 2002, we passed a country of origin labeling which certainly would have narrow down the focus in this whole investigation. Five years ago, six years ago now, and this administration still refuses to implement country of origin label.
DOBBS: Well, I have said it already on this broadcast. I will say it again. This lame duck administration cannot get out of that town soon enough to suit certainly me. I'll speak only for myself here.
STUPAK: Well, I won't disagree with you.
DOBBS: Well, I didn't think you probably would. And I don't think most Americans would care about the quality of life in this country and what has been done to them over the course of the past seven years would light of. The idea that the European Union has affected (INAUDIBLE) has, has country of origin labels in place, and that this country is acting like some sort of backward third world disaster of a nation is inexcusable. Can we fix it reasonably soon?
STUPAK: Absolutely. Inexcusable, unacceptable, and cannot go on.
DOBBS: (INAUDIBLE) I want to say to you, Congressman. Mr. Chairman, thank you for everything you're doing. You're one of the bright lights. We appreciate it.
STUPAK: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour. The "ELECTION CENTER." Roland Martin in for Campbell Brown.
Roland, tell us about it.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks so much, Mr. Independent. Coming up on the "ELECTION CENTER." The presidential race and the race card. The McCain campaign says Obama is playing it. Obama says is that the best you've got? We'll hear from both candidates in their own words.
Plus, Exxon Mobil's record profits. We'll show you how much money the oil giant can make in just one hour. That, more from Tara Wall and me in the "ELECTION CENTER" tonight -- Lou?
DOBBS: Look forward to it, Roland. Thank you.
And a reminder to join me on the radio. Monday through Friday for THE LOU DOBBS SHOW. Among my guest, tomorrow, Rick Newman from U.S. News and World Report. We'll be talking about the new housing rescue bill. Will it rescue anyone?
And I'll be joined by Preston University economist Alan Blinder, former Fed vice chairman whose cash for clunkers concept may help remove some of the worst cars from our highways. You don't want to miss that. Go to loudobbsradio.com for the look on listings for the Lou Dobbs show in your area.
And lifting the ban on offshore oil drilling. Two members of Congress, bipartisan members with a plan. A plan that could help middle class Americans. Imagine that.
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DOBBS: Well, in this presidential campaign, you've heard a lot of nonsense from both candidates about energy. And the next segment of this broadcast we're going to talk facts and we're going to talk straight. American drivers today are paying about $4 a gallon for gasoline. And as American taxpayers pay at the pumps, oil companies are revving immense rewards. Exxon-Mobil today reporting profits of almost $12 billion for the second quarter. That's the biggest quarterly profit in American history. The profits narrowly beating the previous corporate record by Exxon Mobil.
The earnings were mostly because record high crude oil prices. Congressional Democrats blasting the oil company for putting profits and to stock vivax (ph) and shareholder benefits rather than energy exploration. Well, a bipartisan group of lawmakers is demanding an end to the congressional ban on offshore oil drilling now.
The House speaker, of course, does not want to lift that ban. The House Energy working group wants to divert almost half of the royalties that would result from off shore fields to research, conservation and aid for Americans struggling to pay their heating bills.
Congressman John Peterson in a Republican of Pennsylvania. And Congressman Neil Abercrombie, a Democrat of Hawaii, lead the group. They join us here tonight.
Gentleman, good to have you with us.
REP. NEIL ABERCROMBIE (D), HAWAII: Good to be with you, Lou. Aloha.
DOBBS: Aloha. Let me start with -- I'm going to just throw this out. Right now, the speaker of the House says she wants to save the planet and effectively, the heck with the American driver, working men and women who are desperate for relief. And right now, what can you do against the gavel of the speaker?
REP. JOHN PETERSON (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, I think we need your help, Lou. We need to tell the American public that they have an option now. We have a bipartisan bill that would open up not only the other continental shelf, would take away the prohibition on shale oil, would take away the prohibition of woody biomass, which is fastest growing renewable, and would take much of the royalties from them to fund renewables, to fund conservation and to help people, you know, use energy more wisely and more cost effectively.
ABERCROMBIE: All right. This is the energy independence bill, Lou. I am telling you right now that we can set a pace for this country. This is not done with political consultants. There's been no corporations, no advocacy groups, no leadership groups. This was member-driven on behalf of the national interests.
DOBBS: Well, that is welcome and rare news to hear, as you know, Congressman.
Congressman Abercrombie, let me ask you this. Right now, as it is established, only American or American-owned subsidiaries can drill offshore. And that, crude oil and natural gas has to be directed to the domestic market. You and I both know that by the time this gets to the stage of law, there will be immense lobbying efforts to divert that energy rich everyone has produced.
Natural gas, crude oil from the domestic market to the world market, and the American taxpayer, and American energy consumer left holding the bag. Are you confident if you pass it that you can make this airtight against that possibility?
ABERCROMBIE: Yes, we are. We absolutely believe in a great wave of energy is coming from the voters across the whole country that's going to demand that we have energy independence for this country. Not only do we believe this legislation can pass with your help, your listeners' help, and people all across the country that want energy independence. But we are convinced that we're going to have American workers producing through America.
We're going to see to it that the energy that's coming from outside the country right now. For example, much of the natural gas that's being used right now in the north-eastern United States comes from natural gas drilled offshore in Canada and imported into the United States.
We believe that energy independence is such a powerful move in this country that no one will be able to resist it.
PETERSON: We're importing 17 percent of our natural gas and almost 70 percent of our oil. And this would all be go right to our refineries. And, of course, natural gas is not easily, you know, transmitted. We get 15 percent from Canada and a couple percent from LNG that comes in tankers.
That is not growing anywhere near what they have, because many times of the year we can't buy it because countries who don't have gas we'll pay more for it than us. But natural gas is the one we don't talk a lot about. It's the one that's driving companies out of offshore.
DOBBS: Let me go to one of the issues here. And part of your requirements under the terms of your legislation would be to divert 40 percent of drilling royalties to renewable energy conservation, low- income heating assistance, and you estimate those royalties could amount over the course of a decade at $2.6 trillion. That's a lot of money.
But it also is going to conflict with the profit motive and incentives of the oil exploration companies, the oil production companies as well as even the refiners.
ABERCROMBIE: No, right now, those companies are getting 100 percent of nothing. If you can't drill on the public lands, if you can't drill on the outer continental shelf, you're not getting any kind of royalties. It doesn't shock me that the oil companies are making money. If someone in this country shock that the oil companies are making money, I suggest they go see "Casablanca" and be shocked about gamble upstairs.
PETERSON: We're not concern about that. We're concern about seeing that the revenues from that, the royalties -- ABERCROMBIE: And we -- I wouldn't mind if the oil
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: To be very honest about it, I want everybody in this country making money. I want every company to be profitable. What I don't want, and I know you don't because you're taking action and I commend you for doing so, what we can't stand anymore of is the silly pathological, etiologically extreme nonsense of we're not going to drill here, we're not going to use carbon based fuel and we're going to make the working man and woman in this country pay for it with higher prices at that pump, higher heating oil prices, and know the development of alternate energy sources. I mean, we've got to get real.
ABERCROMBIE: This legislation bypasses all the ideology. It bypasses the finger pointing, the political consultants, the conflict and the politics when the corporations and the advocacy groups. This is about acting in the national interests. And that's why we think with your help and your listeners' help, they're going to be asking their congressmen and women, all across the energy --
PETERSON: And the senators.
ABERCROMBIE: And their senators come back here in September and vote this bill through.
DOBBS: All right. Let's repeat it one more time because the folks who watch this broadcast. Congressman, I guarantee you're independent enough to demand independence. What can they do?
PETERSON: They need -- the American public needs to talk to their congressmen's offices tomorrow. They need to talk to our leadership office. They want an energy bill before we close out this legislature. And they need to all talk to their senators. They need to really be heard. They need to be talking locally. They need to be in their local media, their local papers. They need to raise this issue.
ABERCROMBIE: And all we have to do, Lou, is say where are you on the energy independence act? We want to know. We're going to make a judgment on you as politicians, and on whether you're acting in the national interest on the energy independent bill.
DOBBS: All right. LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, our Web site, loudobbs.com. We'll have all of the information necessary on the energy independence act. We'll also begin tracking where every congressman, every senator stands. We'll begin that tonight. And we, again, thank you both.
(CROSSTALK)
ABERCROMBIE: Thank you, Lou. You're doing great service for the country.
DOBBS: Well, you are the ones doing the service. And are we in desperate need of it from our nation's capital. Congressman Abercrombie and Peterson, thank you, gentlemen.
ABERCROMBIE: Aloha.
PETERSON: Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll. The question is do you believe the FDA leadership should be fired for failing to protect the American consumer? Yes or no? Let us hear from it. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. The results upcoming here in just a few moments.
Another government agency not doing its job. The IRS had some questions to answer. We'll be talking about that next. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: A troubling new report finds that more than a million of this country's businesses of all sizes are not paying payroll taxes. The government accountability office says the Internal Revenue Service simply is not doing it's job. And taxpayers are paying the price.
Carrie Lee has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 1.6 million businesses including federal contractors owe over $58 billion in payroll taxes according to the government accountability office. This money is meant for federal income taxes, social security and Medicare. But these companies are keeping it or spending it. Members of the Senate Permanent subcommittee on investigations are outraged.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: Delinquent businesses are stashing away not only the payroll taxes that they owe Uncle Sam, but also stealing funds withheld from employee paychecks.
LEE: This report highlights numerous unnamed businesses that have failed to remit payroll taxes. It is a felony to intentionally withhold this money.
SEN. NORMAL COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA: It's enough at times to make your blood boil in cases which business owners have failed to pay payroll taxes while purchasing luxury cars, planes, mansions. Tax cheats to live in the highlight at the expense of hardworking American taxpayers.
LEE: The GAO says the IRS is too lenient with business owners.
STEVE SEBASTIAN, GOVT. ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE: The IRS is not utilizing the enforcement tools that it currently has available to more aggressively pursue the collection of payroll taxes, filing tax leans against the properties of the business, assessing the owners and officers that are responsible for the non-payment of these taxes -- a personal penalty assessment.
LEE: The IRS agrees with all of the GAO's recommendation. In a statement responding to the report the agency states it " ... collects 99.8 percent of all payroll taxes," that "...collection numbers show dramatic improvement in recent years." But that, "... we do agree we could do a better job."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEE: Now according to the transactional records access clearinghouse, which analyzes IRS data, the audit rate for the largest corporations fell to a 20-career low last year, half the rate of 1988. Also, the audit rate for small and mid-sized firms are rising. And Lou, for individual taxpayers, audits have about doubled since the year 2000 to about one in 100.
So, bigger firms easing up, small and mid-size firms stepping up audits. The IRS says that new strategies, like prefiling agreements, help large companies achieve compliance.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: ... The Internal Revenue Service -- its top officials say we agree we could do a better job.
LEE: Right.
DOBBS: Good for the IRS. How about that?
LEE: Right. And with with a big --
DOBBS: A mature, responsible, intelligent response from a federal agency. My gosh. I mean -- I am just stunned.
LEE: But it makes you question why they're not going after large corporations when an audit hour spent -- you can make about 10 times more money than you would going after an individual or small company.
DOBBS: All right. Carrie Lee, thank you very much.
Our poll results tonight -- 97 percent of you responding saying the FDA leadership should be fired for failing to protect the American consumer in the salmonella outbreak.
We thank you for being with us tonight, and ask you to please join us here tomorrow.
For all of us, we thank you for watching. Good night from New York.
The "ELECTION CENTER" begins right now. Roland Martin sitting in for Campbell Brown -- Roland.
