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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Russian Tanks Move Closer to Tbilisi; Moscow Refuses to Pull Back; The U.S. Versus Russia; Who's Buying up America?; Howard Dean Misspeaks; Candidates Pandering to Corporate Elites
Aired August 15, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: And don't forget the screen saver. All right, thank you, Tom.
Tonight, Russian tanks have moved even closer to the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. Moscow now defying U.S. demands to withdraw from Georgia.
And tonight, rising concerns that Senators Obama and McCain are more focused on the interests of corporate elites than the interests of working men and women and their families.
Also tonight, foreign governments and foreign companies spending billions of dollars buying up large assets in this country, but our federal government, well, they don't have time or money enough to tell us who's buying what. We'll have that story.
And Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, is he playing the race card again, trying to win votes? Or did he just make a slip of the tongue? All of that, all the day's news and much more, in my opinion, of course, from an independent perspective straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Friday, August 15th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. The United States today bluntly demanding that Russian troops leave Georgia immediately. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice making that declaration after signing a new cease-fire plan with German -- Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili.
But tonight, Moscow ignoring the United States. Russian armored units are moving closer than ever to the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. Those Russian forces now just 29 miles from the city. We'll have extensive coverage and we begin tonight with Frederick Pleitgen in Tbilisi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERICK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of diplomatic movement here in the conflict between Russia and Georgia. Today, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said he signed a cease-fire agreement with the Russian forces. He says that yes, he did sign that agreement but no, he was not happy to sign that agreement.
Saakashvili was very emotional at a press conference he held today with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, saying he had warned the international community for months that something like this conflict would happen, that the Russian forces were building up troops close to its borders but he said that especially the European countries were simply not listening to him.
Now Condoleezza Rice said that with (INAUDIBLE) signing this agreement, it was now time for Russian forces to leave Georgian territory, quote, "immediately". She says that she expected the Russian government to honor that commitment she said it had made and start withdrawing its forces from places like that very strategically important town of Gori.
Now some other parts of that cease-fire agreement also calls for the establishment of an international monitoring mission and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she hopes that that could then at some point turn into a very robust and very international peace-keeping mission, perhaps also with European troops part of that mission.
Another major development and interesting fact about that cease- fire agreement, Condoleezza Rice also saying she is going to try and rally in the international community to get some sort of economic support and relief package going for the state of Georgia -- Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tbilisi, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The Russian military tonight appears to be carrying out a strategy to divide Georgia. Russian troops control now key intersections on the main East/West highway. Russian military units are also in Poti, a key Georgian port on the Caspian Sea. Michael Ware who went to Western Georgia now has our report from the capital of Tbilisi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even as cease-fire negotiations continued in Georgia's capital, Moscow's tanks were still trowelling (ph) the western front. At first their target was this, the vital Georgian sea port of Poti. Outside the pro-Russian breakaway region of Abkhazia, though thought to be under Russian occupation, Poti's docks have remained open and the Russian soldiers seem to have left the city largely untouched.
(on camera): However, they have sunk five Georgian Navy and Coast Guard vessels, and as we speak, just behind this wall, a small element of Russian troops and armored vehicles is in control of this part of this part of the harbor loading inflatable boats on to trucks.
(voice-over): Locals say the troops arrived early in the conflict. Their presence quickly followed by bombing, which led to a number of civilian and Georgian military deaths and casualties. Life appears to be returning to normal here in Poti. However, residents say the Russians are conducting occasional patrols in their armored vehicles, but as quickly as they began those patrols have ended. Georgian officials claiming the Russians have just pulled out of the city. But the Russians haven't gone far. The troops at the port were in fact just one small element of a much larger force, which is now digging in 30 kilometers from the Black Sea coast, outside of the town of Senaki (ph) deep within undisputed Georgian territory.
Vehicles line the area's roadways. And in this field what appears to be bushes is actually Russian artillery, masked by fresh- cut foliage. From those positions, these oil tanks in nearby Poti and the railways that carry the oil remain at the Russians' mercy and they will stay that way until Moscow brings these troops home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WARE: So what you can see, Lou, is that the Russians are very much pressing their advantage. In fact, there's absolutely no reason or sanction to prevent them from doing so. This has been a stunning coup for the Russian military and they know that.
And they are simply ignoring, in fact, defying the U.S. calls for them to withdraw, and there's nothing to force them to do so. They are going to milk this for every, every inch of advantage that they can get -- Lou.
DOBBS: Concerning their interests, Michael, the Russians, is it in their apparent interest to dig in there? You said that they are digging in so there's no indication whatsoever of any plan to withdraw these troops. Rather, they are consolidating positions?
WARE: Absolutely. I mean on both fronts in this war. Remember, when Russia invaded Georgia just over a week ago, they did so on two axes, one to the east just north of the capital where I am now and the one to the west that you have seen in our story.
Now here in the east, as you pointed out, the Russians, rather than pulling back during Secretary Rice's visit and the signing by the Georgian president of a peace deal, they have advanced to within 29 kilometers of the capital, where we are right now. That's the furthest line of advance that they have had during the entire conflict.
And meantime, as you have seen the pictures, in the west, they are digging in, in significant numbers. Now, this does a number of things. It can be a grand negotiating tactic. It's very simple for them to maintain their positions, in fact pressing this advantage as part of a negotiating technique that will allow them to offer a so- called compromise as they withdraw, but only to the disputed territories within Georgia.
Because remember, where they are now is in undisputed Georgian territory. This is Georgia proper. So it could just be a negotiating maneuver. But it's also a continuing act of defiance. Let's not forget, this war at the end of the day is really about U.S. versus Russian interests.
This is Russia sending a message that's meant to reverberate throughout the region and the longer they delay, the longer they defy, the more stunning that message is. And as I said, there's no one that can force them to withdraw and there's no reason right now for them to do so -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, aside from the fact that this, the threats against Poland by the Russian second general in command suggesting even nuclear response to Poland for signing that missile defense situation, this is now adventurism on an extreme scale, is it not?
WARE: Well, it is and it isn't. I mean that's pretty bold rhetoric, but in another sense, it's blatantly obvious. I mean it's stating the obvious, to be honest. I mean it's...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Michael, I know we've got a delay the deal with here...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: But let's talk about what is obvious. What is obvious, that Russia has invaded the nation of Georgia. That the European nations, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, NATO, the European Union, G-8 have been absolutely unwilling to respond in any way to this Russian adventurism. And that puts the entire region, that is Eastern Europe and Central Asia, in great jeopardy.
WARE: Absolutely. But what we're talking about here is not right and wrong. We're not talking about legal issues here. We're talking real politic, Lou.
DOBBS: Yeah, I didn't mention...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: By the way, Michael...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Michael, I didn't mention right or wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I didn't mention right or wrong.
WARE: Yeah.
DOBBS: I mentioned very specifically a threat to two regions. Eastern Europe and Central Asia from Azerbaijan to the Balkans. Those countries right now are squarely in jeopardy as a result of Russia's apparent now new intentions.
WARE: And that's the entire point. Now, Russia itself from its self-interests, feels that it's been under threat for several years. It's seen American's sphere of influence continually expand through former Soviet Union states or allied countries. One by one, they have been integrated into NATO or they formed alliances with NATO or the U.S. and Georgia is a prime case.
It is a key U.S. ally in this region. And that's the whole point of this invasion. It's Russia responding or counter-punching to what it sees as expanding U.S. influence. And the key thing is that Moscow's decided to do this at a moment when it thinks it can strike and get away with it. And I'm afraid to say that their judgment is proving correct. Look at the limp response, Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Michael, thank you very much. Michael Ware there in Tbilisi. Thank you.
Well President Bush today stepped up his criticism of Russia, telling Moscow to stop its bullying and intimidation, as he put it. Once again, the president appears powerless in face of Russia's aggression. Relations between the United States and Russia have deteriorated sharply since September 11th. Elaine Quijano has our report from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What a difference seven years makes.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Russia has damaged its credibility and its relations with the nations of the free world.
QUIJANO: President Bush's latest slap at Russia and its leaders...
BUSH: Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.
QUIJANO: A far cry from his infamous first read of then Russian President Vladimir Putin.
BUSH: I was able to get a sense of his soul.
QUIJANO: Since then, Washington-Moscow tensions have simmered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
QUIJANO: A former Soviet Republic, Georgia's 2003 rose revolution not only threatened Russia in its own backyard, experts say, but inspired other democracy activists in the region. Then in 2005, President Bush delivered a speech in Georgia's capital making clear his allegiance to their pro-U.S. government.
BUSH: The path of freedom you have chosen is not easy, but you will not travel it alone. As you build a free and democratic Georgia, the American people will stand with you.
QUIJANO: Still, President Bush and Vladimir Putin exchanged warm words just a few months ago, punctuated by officially released images of the two leaders side by side at sunset. VLADIMIR PUTIN, FORMER RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I have always appreciated his honesty and his openness. His willingness to listen to his counterpart and this is precious.
BUSH: We worked very hard over the past years to find areas where we can work together and find ways to be agreeable when we disagree. It's been a remarkable relationship.
QUIJANO (on camera): But critics argue that relationship has not yielded results on Georgia, though the administration says Russia has cooperated on other issues, including trying to curb Iran's and North Korea's nuclear ambitions. Still, Georgia is one area where the president's freedom agenda has clearly collided with the Kremlin -- Elaine Quijano, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Up next here I'll have a few thoughts about Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, who called the Republican Party today the white party. A slip of the tongue or a repetition of something he said for years?
And how inappropriate. How inappropriate is it, Senators Obama and McCain apparently putting the interests of corporate elites ahead of the interests of our middle class. We will tell you all about that as well and a great deal more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our Commerce Department has announced it's giving up trying to keep the tail track of foreign companies and foreign nations that are buying American assets. Now the reason the Commerce Department says is it's just too much work. So now, anyone, any nation, any country, can come here, buy whatever they want, and you and I we are not supposed to know about it. Apparently, this Bush administration and the Clinton administration before it have been trying to hide what their failed economic policies are doing to this country and to our working men and women. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not all foreign direct investment is the same. A foreign car maker's direct investment in building factories in the United States creates new production capacity and new jobs. But the $52 billion purchase of Budweiser by the Belgian company InBev is the direct transfer of the company and its assets to a foreign company.
The Bureau of Economic Analysis will no longer make a distinction between the two. It's a distinction too important not to be noted says a group protesting the change.
LLOYD WOOD, AMER. MFG. TRADE ACTION COALITION: We think that actually DEA should be even more detailed in the data it reports, specifically whether or not state-owned companies are buying up U.S. companies, whether or not sovereign wealth funds are making the investment, in other words, where literally a country is making an investment, not a private company.
TUCKER: Thirty-eight various groups representing manufacturers, unions and farmers have sent a letter to Congress urging that the decision by the BEA be reversed. The group is asking for congressional oversight hearings into why the Bureau stopped making the distinction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's very, very important, especially for political purposes, to know whether or not a company is U.S.-owned or not because one of the things that we've seen here in Washington, D.C. is that multi-national or trans-national companies often have very different political interests than let's say a U.S.-owned company.
TUCKER: In the past 15 years, $2 trillion in direct foreign investment is poured into the United States, according to the Bureau's numbers. Only 10 percent of that total or 200 billion has gone toward creating new businesses. The remaining 90 percent was used to acquire companies, their patents, brands and assets.
A spokesman for the BEA says the data costs $600,000 to collect and they don't have the money due to budget pressures. But the BEA has not had a budget cut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Transparency and oversight are what's at stake. Shouldn't Americans know who is buying America and why wouldn't Congress think it didn't have a stake in understanding who is doing the buying? China alone has some $2 trillion in foreign reserves and Lou, sovereign wealth funds are estimated to have $3.3 trillion fund ready to buy.
DOBBS: Let's be really clear. And this is my opinion and my opinion only. But the Bureau of Economic Analysis and the Commerce Department and the Bush administration are reprehensible in their failure to serve the American people on this issue again, on a broad number of issues, but this one because basically they understand that if the American people know what is happening, as a result the consequence of the policies, the failed policies of this administration and previous administrations on the issue of free trade, so-called free trade, the American people will rise up against it.
They want everyone uninformed. They want them absolutely content with that lack of information. Meanwhile, it's our job to start digging it out and rooting it out and we're going to do so. We are trying to do so. But the fact that the national mainstream media that our two political parties are putting up with this tells you who's complicit and where the problems lie, and we've got to start exercising diligence, energetically, our responsibilities, I think.
The words to convey what I think about this administration and their failure to have the guts to talk about the consequences of their economic policies and the impact on our people, I don't want to use those on the air. Bill, thank you very much. Bill Tucker. Well, this is not the first time that we have been told by a federal government department or agency that it can't do its job, because it's just too much work. During the toxic toy recalls over the past year, the head of the Consumer Product Safety Commission Nancy Nord (ph) said the millions of tons of imports mostly from communist China are simply too much to keep up with.
She said sat one point quote, "we simply cannot inspect our way to product safety". Think about that one. The Food and Drug Administration, another agency that just can't fulfill its responsibilities to protect the American consumer.
The head of that agency, Dr. David Acheson, today admitted that the salmonella outbreak which is now in its fourth month is not over. At the same time, the FDA says it can't explain why so many Americans were sickened by such a small number of tainted peppers from Mexico.
In fact, it took the FDA more than a month for the FDA to finally admit the cause of the outbreak, the origin of the outbreak was Mexico. We should point out that this broadcast was the first to report that fact and more than 1,400 people now have become ill so far. As many as 40,000 other people may actually have been sickened and not reported their sickness to doctors. The standard ratio we are told is 30 to 40 people are sick for every one who is reported.
We have at least one example tonight of some common sense to report to you, thank goodness. More on this nation's airlines' decision to do the right thing by our service men and women. I challenged them to do just that. Five more airlines tonight have decided to waive their baggage fees for our active duty military. This is what I said Tuesday about that extra charge to our troops.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Be an American airline and work it out with the Department of Defense so that the soldier, the marine, the service member isn't caught in the middle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well U.S. Airways, Northwest Airlines, United, Delta and AirTran today announced they will no longer require our troops to pay a fee for checked baggage. American Airlines yesterday announced it would waive that fee for our men and women in uniform. Continental Airlines, however, says it will still charge our troops $100 for checking a third bag.
Can I suggest something to you? Pretty please? Would you let Continental know what you think of that idea? There is no excuse in the world for any business in this country, and I don't care whether it's an American company or a foreign company in any way interfering and making life any more difficult for the men and women who serve this nation in uniform. And it shouldn't be tolerated. Continental, good grief.
Coming up next, evangelical voters are apparently kind of fired up. They are speaking out this weekend on presidential politics. Here come the evangelicals. We'll have that story.
And new fears that raging drug cartel violence will escalate on this side of our border with Mexico. We'll have the latest for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A new and deadly eruption of drug cartel violence in Mexico. At least 23 people have been killed in northern Mexico over just the past two days. Eight of the victims killed in a rehab center in Juarez. Juarez has become a battleground between two warring cartels trying to control drug traffic across our border. Eight hundred people have been killed in Juarez alone this year. The escalation in violence raising new concerns that the cartels will move to this side of the border with their war.
Rhode Island's governor today looking to replace eight members of his commission on Hispanic affairs. Those eight commissioners yesterday resigned in protest over the governor's order to crack down on illegal immigration. Governor Donald Carcieri issued his illegal immigration control order back in March. Among its provisions, a requirement that state police check the immigration status of all who are arrested.
Governor Carcieri said the state is facing massive budget deficits and illegal aliens create a financial strain on state resources. The governor said he will not rescind that order and he will fill the vacancies that are now on that commission, so we will follow that as well.
Time now to update our count on those illegal aliens who have turned themselves in to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement in that voluntary deportation program. This is now if you're keeping track the 11th day of the so-called scheduled departure voluntary program. Tonight, we can tell you the official count remains at six. There is one week in the program to go. We will continue to update you on this, on the success of this program and its progress each and every night.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts now. Vernon in Florida said, "When this country can't take care of its own borders and immigration, why would anyone think these clowns can negotiate a situation between Russia and Georgia?" That is an intriguing question.
And Suzette in Washington, "I was a very strong Democrat, but the fact is Senator Obama lacks experience to lead our country at such a crucial time."
Evelyn in Georgia, that's Georgia, U.S., "Obama won't get off the beach because this situation with Russia is beyond his scope of experience."
We'll have more of your thoughts here later.
And next, top Democrats trying to avoid a showdown with Senator Clinton at the Democratic National Convention. We'll have that and the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean, well he says the Republican Party is a white party. Is that a mistake or just a repetition of his rhetoric? We'll be discussing those issues and more with three of the best political analysts in the country. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion. Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Well, Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, tonight has again shown just how, well, if I may say so, and I may, just how out of touch he is with the issues of gender and race and politics and propriety. Dean, making the absurd claim, by accident, ostensibly, that the Republican Party is the white Party in this country. Listen to what Howard Dean had to say in an interview that aired today on the "Tell Me More with Michel Martin" program on National Public Radio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN, DEMOCRATIC NATL CMTE CHAIRMAN: If you look at folks of color, even women, they are more successful in the Democratic Party than they are in the white, excuse me, than in the Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Excuse me? Was he trying to indicate that he had misspoken, that that was an accident when he referred to the Republican Party as the "white Party?" Well, that apparently is what he would like everyone to think. It's what the DNC, in fact, is saying tonight, that Dean misspoke and corrected himself.
Well, in point of fact, this isn't the first time that Howard Dean has made those comments, racially based, about the Republican Party. In February, at a black history month event, the DNC chairman was heard to say the following.: "The Democratic field of candidates looks like America," while the Republican field "looks like the 1950s and talks like the 1850s."
And the "San Francisco Chronicle" reported as far back as three years ago that Dean said this about what he called the monolithic GOP: "They all behave the same. They all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party."
Now, that's an interesting piece of history, don't you think, about Dean making the same charge and then feigning a mistake, perhaps, today? Earlier, we asked the Republican National Committee for a response. We're still waiting to hear from them.
A new Gallop Poll, today released, shows Senator Obama and Senator McCain dead even in the race for the White House. The Gallop Daily Tracking Poll shows senators Obama and McCain tied up 44 percent each among registered voters. It was only two days ago that Senator Obama was leading by a margin of six percent. That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Are you surprised -- are you as surprised as the liberal national media appears to be that Senator Obama has not run away with the presidential election? Yes or no, cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
We'll have much more on that, up next. And are Senator Clinton's supporters hoping for more than a symbolic vote at the convention? We'll have that. I'll be talking with three of the best political analysts, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now with some thoughts on the presidential campaign, I'm joined by three of the country's leading political analysts: James Taranto, he's editor of OpinionJournal.com. Good to have you with us, James.
Michael Goodwin, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist, "New York Daily News," CNN contributor. Great to have you here, Michael.
And Democratic strategist, Robert Zimmerman, and CNN contributor. Good to have you here, Robert. It's been awhile.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be with you.
DOBBS: Let's turn first to where in the world has your candidate been during this crisis? He's obviously aware that Russia did invade Georgia, has made one public statement and issued another statement, that's it. He's not giving up the beaches of Hawaii.
ZIMMERMAN: Last time I checked, the president sets the foreign policy, not candidates who want to be president.
DOBBS: Oh, wait a minute, then. How would you explain that trip to the Middle East where he went with an entourage of some 300 correspondents?
ZIMMERMAN: I thought he did it at John McCain's insistence. And let's respond to that. He was received well by our troops and it was a great opportunity for him to demonstrate his foreign policy acumen.
DOBBS: Do you think perhaps...
ZIMMERMAN: Wasn't it great, by the way, to see a govern...
DOBBS: Were you interrupting me or was I interrupting you?
ZIMMERMAN: I was not. I stand corrected.
DOBBS: I'm sorry, it was what?
ZIMMERMAN: Wasn't it great to see an American government official received well by European leaders and in the Middle East? It's kind of refreshing considering...
DOBBS: We talking about Condoleezza Rice and her stop in France and went on to Tbilisi? Is that who you're referring to?
ZIMMERMAN: No, I was referring to Barack Obama.
DOBBS: Oh, Barack Obama. I --oh.
ZIMMERMAN: Let's remember, Condoleezza Rice...
DOBBS: When you said official I assumed you were referring to a member of the administration rather than a sitting U.S. senator who I think of as more of an elected official. But anyway, do you think it's perhaps a mistake, Robert, you seem a little defensive tonight. Do you think there is a mistake in not coming out on the part of Senator Obama?
ZIMMERMAN: Look, there's no question, John McCain won the week in terms of how he positioned himself in responding to the crisis -- the Russian invasion of Georgia, but...
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: I... ZIMMERMAN: Yield.
DOBBS: Thank God.
(LAUGHTER)
GOODWIN: I do believe that Obama has wasted a lot of time this week, especially. When you look back to when Hillary Clinton conceded the nomination in June, Obama essentially has gone down in the polls a few points since then. He's wasted really about almost two months now and I think this week was a good example of it. A crisis kind of in the world and this is the kind of thing where I think given his lack of experience, given the negatives on him, this would have been the time to come back and cancel the vacation.
DOBBS: Is there also, though, some reasonable reason to accept the idea that it's better to have people think you are a fool and be quiet rather than open your mouth and prove them right, here? In that, I don't mean -- I'm talking about the lack of foreign policy experience, perhaps it is a reasonably good approach not to step forward if you have nothing to say, then.
GOODWIN: Well, except that you do have to court voters who are concerned about that. So, I think that being quiet doesn't help him.
DOBBS: Well, let's move to the conflict itself, and that is the Russian invasion, obviously, of Georgia. This administration has obviously miscalculated on a host of fronts, James. But it appears that they are beginning to gain some traction, here a week after the crisis began. What is the political implication for our friends in Europe, particularly France and Germany and of course, the U.K.?
JAMES TARANTO, OPINIONJOURNAL.COM: Well, they were weak on this all along and they needed to be brought along, so in terms of bringing them along, it was not helpful that the administration got off to such a weak start. That's kind of been the pattern with this administration. We had a weak response immediately after Katrina and actually, if you remember after September 11, it took President Bush a few days to hit his stride.
ZIMMERMAN: It's also the legacy of this administration's foreign policy. One of the reasons -- the reality is unless the United States leads, no one leads. And the problem we have here is that because we have lost its credibility diplomatically, because we have such debt, such record debt, many of the debtors are foreign governments like China, that the fact is, we don't have the moral or diplomatic or economic power to weigh in and really affect foreign policy and that is the Bush and McCain legacy.
TARANTO: We saw that clip earlier, that very embarrassing clip from 2001 of President Bush talking about how he looked into Putin's soul and I just thought when we saw that, gee, that really shows what happens when you elect a president who's inexperienced in foreign policy.
DOBBS: Your turn, Robert.
ZIMMERMAN: Glad to.
DOBBS: You guys are going to trade talking points here tonight.
ZIMMERMAN: No, but it's not about talking points.
DOBBS: Of course it's not. I for not a moment would never suggest that it was.
ZIMMERMAN: Just a couple basic facts, shall we just go with that?
DOBBS: Whatever you wish.
ZIMMERMAN: This president, the so-called MBA president that George Bush claimed to be, surrounded himself with the most experienced foreign policy team that he claimed to have in American government. The reality is, it's about leadership, it's not just about -- it's about the people you surround yourself with...
DOBBS: I love what Nancy Pelosi had to say, that this is -- talking about Senator Obama -- that he is going to be a strong future leader and that he's the kind of leader that comes along only, "now and then."
(LAUGHTER)
ZIMMERMAN: Better than once in a lifetime.
DOBBS: Well, I think it would have had perhaps more power if it were -- now and then is sort of a peculiar thing to come up with.
GOODWIN: Look I think we are all -- very soon not going to have George Bush to kick around anymore...
DOBBS: My way, as far as I'm concerned.
GOODWIN: The next president, however, is not going to have an easy time. I mean, you mentioned France and Germany, just take those two in terms of reining in Russia. Neither one of them are eager to do that. Germany, of course, gets so much of its energy -- all of the Europe gets so much of its energy from Russia.
DOBBS: Let me put the numbers out there specifically for everybody. And that is Europe is dependent upon Russia to this extent. Russia provides 50 percent of all the natural gas to Europe, 30 percent of all the crude oil to Europe, and someone argued that it's not surprising on that basis that Europe has been very, very meek in its response.
GOODWIN: Well, and the same in Afghanistan. Obama has -- when he went to Europe, to his credit, one of the things he said there was the need to send more NATO troops to Afghanistan. Germany and France have not been willing to really participate in the fighting. So, those are the kinds of problems that we are going to need leadership with our allies, but these are very difficult problems, they're not going to go away just because George Bush does.
DOBBS: But, one of the things that's troubling, and Robert Zimmerman just talked about it, and you intimated the same, that there's a role here for American leadership. But leadership does not require that the president or two candidates for president step out and start telling the world what to do. There is such a thing as quiet leadership, there is behind the scenes leadership and a role for our partners, our allies, in a mature, responsible international relationship with Europe for them to take the lead with our support. There is nothing craven about our stepping away from this blustering nonsense of we are always the one taking the lead, we're taking the responsibility, we're paying the way. If those nations lack the capacity and the character to lead here, then we might as well understand it, because we are wasting billions of dollars in keeping 40,000 troops in Germany and providing for their defense if they haven't the stomach to lead in their own right. Do you agree, James?
TARANTO: Yes, I agree. But I don't think that merely getting away from the bluster is enough. I mean, I don't think Barack Obama...
DOBBS: I didn't suggest it was...
TARANTO: I'm agreeing with you, Lou. I don't think Barack Obama is going to solve this problem just by putting on a friendly face, it is, as you suggest, much more complicated than that.
GOODWIN: And Lou, I would say, I mean, I'm operating from the assumption they don't have the courage to lead, that France and Germany will not go against their short-term interests, they will always look for a way out rather than confrontation that sometimes is necessary.
ZIMMERMAN: But, there are cards we can play. And what you're talking about, Lou, is of course, tough diplomacy, which our government can play a role in. for example, Russia wants to be a member of the World Trade Organization. They have virtually no economy, the manufacture on a minimal basis and their technology is in the dark ages. There are clear economic opportunities that we can provide for Russia and should have been providing all along. There are certainly...
DOBBS: Are you criticizing the Clinton administration for its failure to develop a relationship between the United States and Russia of investment and engagement during the '90s?
ZIMMERMAN: Without question more could have been done there. But Lou, let's not kid ourselves. This is a very serious issue.
DOBBS: I assure you, I'm not.
ZIMMERMAN: And the idea that Russia invaded Georgia because of the Clinton administration, of course, is not based in reality. This has been an eight-year decline under the Bush administration.
DOBBS: Do you understand, clearly, that George Bush will be leaving office on January 20 and that that's not who you're running against, here?
ZIMMERMAN: It's not about running against, it's about living with that legacy that both McCain and Obama are going to have to...
DOBBS: No, we're the ones that are going to live trough with the legacy, all of us, Democrat, Republican, Independent. I just don't see the profit, if you will, in running against Bush because he is the lamest of ducks. We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much, Robert Zimmerman, Michael Goodwin, James Taranto, thank you.
And a reminder to vote on our poll tonight: Are you as surprised, as apparently the liberal national media appears to be that Senator Obama hasn't run away with this presidential election in the polls? I thought you would like that, Robert. This is just for you. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here in just a few moments. And reminder to please join me on the radio Monday through Friday for THE LOU DOBBS SHOW. Our guests include Democratic strategist, Robert Zimmerman. Have you heard of him? We'll talk about, well, Howard Dean and his elegance of language. And I'll be talking with Michael Dobbs, author of "One Minute to Midnight: Kennedy, Khrushchev, and Castro on the Brink of Nuclear War." Please join us. And go to LouDobbsRadio.com for your local listings.
Still ahead, the presidential candidates say they want to help our struggling middle class. But man, you know, they're spending a lot of time courting big business and Wall Street. I wonder why.
And he's been a Green Beret for three decades. Now, Master Sergeant Brendan O'Connor is being honored for his extraordinary heroism. His story when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our struggling middle class has made the economy the principle issue in this presidential campaign. Well, both candidates are playing considerable lip service to the middle class. They both seem to be looking for principal support for the nation's business elites. Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Americans are getting hammered. Higher gas prices, plummeting home values, and a steady stream of job layoffs. The two presidential candidates talk of measures to help working Americans.
ANNOUNCER: He'll put the middle class ahead of corporate interests to grow the economy.
ANNOUNCER: A comprehensive bipartisan plan to lower prices at the pump.
SYLVESTER: But behind the scenes, a fierce battle to win a battle not over working men and women, but corporate America.
MASSIE RITSCH, CTR FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: For all the talk about small donors becoming more active in this election, which is very encouraging, the money is still coming from the bigger donors, people who can afford the maximum contributions. And those people tend to be corporate executives and other folks in a largely elite, wealthy group.
SYLVESTER: Senators McCain and Obama are out to win the ceo vote for the deep pockets and have corporate heavyweights endorse their plans. In Senator McCain's camp, FedEx chair Fred Smith. Senator Obama has investor Warren Buffett lined up. Dean Baker with the Center for Economic and politic research says candidates want the backing of big business. Those corporate special interests will expect something in return.
DEAN BAKER, CTR FOR ECON & POLICY RESEARCH: Someone's raised a lot of money for you, you know, they get their phone call answered. You know, the people who sent Senator Obama $200, you know, who say -- someone very powerful they're not going to get their phone call answered. But, you know, someone who's raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for Senator Obama, they at least get a foot in the door.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Now, people often perceive the Republican Party to be the party of big business, but at least with one group, Hedge Fund Managers, they have given more to Democratic candidate, Barack Obama than they have to Senator McCain or to Senator Clinton during the primary race, that according to the Center for Responsive Politics -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much. And this probably would be an appropriate point to point out that there are in Washington, D.C. now, 41,000 lobbyists. That's 41,000 lobbyists, spending almost $3 billion a year to make their views known to our elected officials and to crowd out, of course, representations of the middle class and the majority in this country.
Lisa, thanks. Lisa Sylvester. Gasoline prices continue their decline from a record highs. The average price for a gallon of gasoline is now $3.77 nationwide, 34 cents off the record of $4.11 hit on July 11.
Across the country, six states still averaging, however, more than $4 a gallon. Crude oil prices also continued to decline. Crude oil down $1.24 today, settling at $113 a barrel. Crude oil prices have lost more $35 a barrel since President Bush lifted the executive order that banned offshore drilling.
Up next, "Heroes," tonight, the story of a Green Beret awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for Extraordinary Heroism. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: And now "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve this nation in uniform. Tonight, we want you to hear the story of Master Sergeant Brendan O'Connor. He's a Special Forces medic who risked his life in Afghanistan to save the life of a fellow soldier. Bill Tucker has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Master Sergeant Brendan O'Connor has served his country for 30 years as a member of the Army's elite Green Beret. He comes from a long family tradition of military service. His father gave his life in Vietnam. Brendan O'Connor is a medic.
MASTER SGT BRENDAN O'CONNOR, U.S. ARMY: The scope of practice of a Special Forces medic is first and foremost trauma medicine. We also have to act as the everyday health care provider for not only the 12 men that we're serving with, but perhaps the surrounding community.
TUCKER: O'Connor's first combat deployment was Afghanistan in 2006.
O'CONNOR: It's like train for an Olympic event. I mean, here I am, I'm in supposedly what many believes to be the army's elite force, and yet I have not had my opportunity to experience combat.
TUCKER: That opportunity came on June 24 while on a mission to liberate a village from the Taliban, O'Connor's team came under attack. They were greatly outnumbered. Word came over the radio that two soldiers were wounded. Their Afghan interpreter was fighting to save them from Taliban capture. O'Connor assembled a team to try to reach them. They came upon a vast field under heavy enemy fire.
O'CONNOR: I get down, and I start to crawl and find that the body armor has such bulk, probably five or six inches worth of magazines, communication gear, grenades, water, all these things. I found that it was just plowing into the dirt, so I remove my body armor so I can make my way. I understand the body armor has its place, but at that time I didn't think it would do me any good. It would only harm my chances of making it across that field. I had to get to my guys.
TUCKER: O'Connor crossed 200 feet without armor across the field, bravely risking his own life to save his fellow soldiers. While one soldier did not survive his injuries, O'Connor's bravery helped save the life of the other. For his extraordinary heroism, O'Connor was awarded the army's Distinguished Service Cross.
O'CONNOR: There are soldiers everywhere who are putting up a good fight. Who do valorous acts that don't get recognized, so it's uneasy for me to have accepted this award when I know that so many others go unrecognized.
TUCKER: Bill Tucker, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And we want to give you the full results from tonight's question. Seventy-seven percent of you say you are not as surprised as the liberal national media appears to be that Senator Barack Obama hasn't run away with this presidential election.
Time for some of your thoughts. Scott in Texas said: "Lou, I thank you for expressing your view that this country has been taken over by a parade of clowns. You're the voice of reason and common sense. It's easy to listen to you for one reason, you speak the truth." We sure try.
And Larry in Indiana, "Lou, where is the voice on Capitol Hill who will stand for the average American? We're in serious need of a new party, a pro-American Party." Couldn't agree with you more.
And Bud in Indiana, "Lou, if our taxes were based on how much this administration has helped the legal working class, there would be no taxes and Capitol Hill would owe several years of back payments to every legal working class American."
And Michael in New York said, "The fact that the airlines, abetted by our government's silent approval, had the gall to charge baggage fees to our servicemen is beyond outrageous. Apparently the airlines stopped serving decency along with food and blankets."
Juliet in Delaware said, "Please tell me how cities are allowed to provide sanctuary to illegal aliens. Why are our laws not being enforced? We need to start protecting Americans, no illegals."
Well, at least we should be protecting both. We love hearing from you, send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Thanks for being with us tonight, we ask you to join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thank you for watching. Good night from New York.
A CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATION: "Busted: Mortgage Meltdown," begins right now.
