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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Debtor Nation; Deadly Drug Violence Spreading to the U.S.
Aired September 09, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Wolf, thank you. Tonight it is day two of our first ever televised convention of Independents. Tonight we're taking on the issues the presidential candidates are trying to ignore or avoid, the issues of course that matter most to Americans and we're demanding government that's truly representative of the American people.
Government that's not under the influence and dictate of corporate and special interest. That would be quite a change. And among the issues tonight are skyrocketing national trade and personal debt. This is a debtor nation in every sense. The devastating consequences of our government's failure to secure our borders, out of control drug violence across our border with Mexico and God and politics, on the campaign trail.
Well, Senator McCain's selection of Governor Palin as his running mate energized religious voters and Independent voters. We'll be talking about energy independence as well with one of the country's most respected oil men, T. Boone Pickens who uniquely has a plan. We'll have all of that and much more on right here on the "Lou Dobbs Independent Convention" straight ahead.
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ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition, "The Loud Dobbs Independent Convention": news, debate, and opinion for Tuesday, September 9. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. Tonight, the war on our middle class has escalated the American dream is under threat as never before. Runaway government and consumer spending is bankrupting our nation. That's not an overstatement, it's not high hyperbole and millions and millions of Americans are feeling the pain.
For the first time in history most Americans say their children will not have a better living standard than they do. We are now the world's largest debtor nation and tonight there's new evidence of the magnitude of the financial crisis that faces our nation. The Congressional Budget Office today announcing the federal government will have a near record deficit $407 billion is the newest estimate for fiscal 2008.
That startling number does not include, imagine this, the huge cost of bailing out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the largest federal institutional bailout in history. We desperately need elected leaders who can address these issues honestly and forthrightly and represent the American people, not special interest.
Joining us here tonight in the studio for our very special Independent convention, an outstanding audience of voters, Independents, Republicans, Democrats, Independent voters and independently- minded voters of both parties. Now demanding a president who will tackle the tremendous challenges that face this nation and the American people.
The latest polls for the first time show Senator McCain to now be leading Senator Obama. The latest "USA Today"/Gallup poll gives McCain the biggest lead up 10 points. That poll of likely voters shows 54 percent support for Senator McCain, 44 percent supporting Senator Obama.
The latest Gallup tracking poll gives McCain a clear lead among registered voters 49 percent for McCain, 44 percent for Obama, and our latest CNN poll of polls give Senator McCain a lead of exactly one point. McCain with 47 percent, Obama with 46.
Yesterday the first time that CNN poll of polls gave Senator McCain the lead in this contest. Polls indicate the McCain/Palin ticket is now winning the support of a rising number of Independent voters. The latest Gallup poll shows McCain with a 15-point lead over Senator Obama among Independents. McCain with 52 percent support among Independents, Obama with 37 percent.
Most Independent voters apparently believe Senator McCain and Governor Palin have the best policies and the greatest appeal at least to solve this country's worsening problems. The economy is the number one issue in this presidential campaign.
And joining me now two of the country's leading authorities on the financial and economic crisis that faces America. David Walker joins us here in New York. He is the president and chief executive of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. David is former U.S. comptroller general and the head of the Government Accountability Office, great to have you with us.
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DOBBS: And joining us also tonight, Dr. Pat Choate. He is the author of the important new book "Dangerous Business" about the threat to this nation from globalization and the policies that we've pursued over the past two decades. You may...
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Thanks for being here. And Pat of course is a familiar name to many who recall that Pat was Ross Perot's running mate some 12 years ago. Good to have you both here. Let's turn to the first issue.
As I said at the outset, this is a debtor nation. It appears that both of these political parties, David, are committed to keeping this country a debtor nation in perpetuity. What is going on with these two parties, these two candidates that will not address $53 trillion in unfunded liabilities? They will not address $9.5 trillion in national debt, 6.5 trillion in trade debt. What in the world are they thinking?
DAVID WALKER, PETER G. PETERSON FOUNDATION: Washington is out of touch and it's out of control. People -- the people that are running now are looking at the old matrix. They want to talk about how they're going to pay for their new spending, how they're going to pay for the tax cuts. What they ignore is that we're running hundreds of billions of dollars worth of deficits that are set to get worse. We're in a $53 trillion financial hole that gets bigger two to three trillion a year on auto pilot. That's what we need to focus on. We've become addicted to debt since in the 1980s both as a country as well as too many American families.
DOBBS: The idea, Pat, that we could be in this situation was unimaginable, really, 30 years ago, yet both parties have led us in this direction, without courage or the conviction or the principle to stand up and say -- by the way, Peterson is among the rare Americans who had the presence and the foresight to say this is an issue that looms 20 years ago, but over the past three decades, Pat, we've not seen leadership on this issue from our elected officials in either party.
PAT CHOATE, AUTHOR, "DANGEROUS BUSINESS": We've seen just the opposite of leadership. We have seen people aggressively take us down this path. We have some tough decisions ahead in this country. Now, we can turn this around, but these leaders have got to address these issues.
I come back to it on the economy. I'm mystified so far as to what either candidate would do about the economy. They're not sharing that information with us, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, they're not sharing that information with us and -- and frankly, where is the leadership from Washington, D.C. The Treasury secretary responds over the course of the weekend with a plan to effectively nationalize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two largest mortgage entities in the country, federally supported.
This is a financial disaster that we're facing, and people are trying to talk as if they don't want to scare the market. They don't want to scare investors, home owners, but the reality is, the frightening thing is, we don't have leadership either from the political class in Washington, D.C. of either party, or from corporate America. David, why not?
WALKER: Well frankly, the biggest deficit this country has is not a budget deficit, not a (INAUDIBLE) payment deficit, it's not a trade deficit, it's a leadership deficit. That's the biggest deficit it has and frankly...
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WALKER: ... we've had presidents that stood up before on the fiscal front. George Herbert Walker Bush made tough decisions in 1990. It might have cost him re-election but he did the right thing for America. Bill Clinton made tough decisions in 1993; tough budget controls were put into place. Those budget controls expired in 2002 and Washington has been out of control. So we need to get a president who will end up helping to make tough choices to make sure that our future is better than our past because we're in trouble.
DOBBS: Pat, is there any, do you think, validity to the view that these problems are the creation of both the Republican and the Democratic Party over the course of the past 20 years, and therefore they are the last places we should be looking for a solution, that is Republican candidate or Democratic candidate.
CHOATE: Unfortunately, they created the problem and they're going to be forced to solve the problem, because what we have is basically a two-party monopoly inside this country. The questions that we've got to get on the table are how do we deal with their entitlements and how do we make sure that our working people have a safe, secure dignified retirement?
How do we deal with the fact where our rich and our corporations pay their fair share? How do we deal with the fact that about $350 billion a year of taxes are not collected in this country? That would almost pay the deficit. And the third thing is how do we deal with this enormous trade deficit? A trade deficit that is destroying our defense industrial base, shifting our manufacturing overseas, and leaving millions of our people with lesser jobs.
Now, that's what we've got to focus on. That's what the next president has got to focus on. They may not give us the answers in this election. But...
DOBBS: Well that must be the reason...
CHOATE: ... they cannot avoid it.
DOBBS: That must be the reason we're hearing Senator Obama and Senator McCain talks so much about those things. Do you suppose?
CHOATE: I think so, Lou.
DOBBS: We're going to be back with David, with Pat, and with our audience here and with you as we focus on our soaring debt next and the drug cartel's war on the government of Mexico is a war as well against the United States. I'll be joined by two of this country's leading authorities on our drug crisis as we continue our Independent Convention. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Welcome back to our Independent Convention. We're focusing -- while we are having some fun, I hope here in the studio and you at home with these -- with this evening and the idea of an Independent Convention after those two wonderful weeks of convention by the Republicans and Democrats, we're facing so many issues that the presidential candidates continue to ignore. We -- as we have just, I believe fairly well documented.
We face an economic crisis, a financial crisis of epic proportions. Fifty-three trillion dollars of unfunded liability, some $16 trillion of national trade debt. At the same time millions of Americans struggling to cope with the crippling burden of personal debt. But as our Kitty Pilgrim now reports, none of the presidential candidates are addressing the critical issues on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Campaign promises are nice, but both parties have burdened America with crushing debt.
ROBERT BIXBY, CONCORD COALITION: The budget deficit for this year is probably going to be around $400 billion. Next year it could be as high as $500 billion depending upon what happens with the economy.
PILGRIM: Nine trillion dollars in national debt, the interest last year was $230 billion more than was spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. More is spent on the interest on national debt than is spent on education. Some blame Congress for putting through too many pet projects.
J.D. FOSTER, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Right now they don't have anything that constrains them effectively. And so they just waive the budget rules that they enact and spend more money.
PILGRIM: Families are in terrible shape, crushed by debt, personal bankruptcy has increased almost 30 percent in the first half of this year.
ROBERT MANNING, ROCHESTER INST. TECH.: The average American household with credit card debt today has over $15,000. That's three out of five households.
PILGRIM: Those households traditionally the strongest asset of Americans are now a liability. By the end of June, 1.2 million mortgages were in foreclosure. The three month period beginning June 30th saw nearly three million home owners behind on their payments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Older Americans were once considered the most financially stable and now people in their mid 60s to 70s are burdened by debt. Bankruptcy rates up 125 percent this year, Lou. And young people are also taking on debt. People in their mid 20s and 30s are about on average $4,000 in debt.
DOBBS: It is -- if our elected officials can't awaken to these issues, I don't know what in the world will happen. I do know this. That we're going to run out of choices rather quickly. I thought it was instructive that Henry Paulson, the Treasury secretary, taking on the issue of bailing out a $200 billion bailout with five trillion in potential liabilities for the American taxpayer, started talking about new regulation for credit card companies.
It took a while but at least he mentioned it. It took a while to notice it with something like -- what is it -- five months remaining in office, a sudden awakening. Joining me here in New York again David Walker, president of the newly established Peter G. Peterson Foundation in Washington, D.C., our bureau there, Pat Choate -- Dr. Choate is the author of "Dangerous Business."
Let's go to the issue of this bailout of Fannie Mae, of Freddie Mac. Rumors on Wall Street today that another investment brokerage, investment bank is likely in trouble after Bear Stearns. Where did the bailout stop? What is the prospect for success? And why isn't there a bailout for the millions of Americans right now facing foreclosure? Why don't they have the same thing?
(APPLAUSE)
WALKER: Well Washington thinks that it has money. Washington doesn't have any money. Washington just bailed out entities that did not have any explicit government guarantee. It's not like the savings and loan situation where those deposits were insured.
These were not guaranteed and yet the government, you know stepped up and took over. The taxpayers are going to pay the bill. Since 2002, Lou, when the budget controls expired, we've been out of control. It's been tax cuts, spending increases, entitlement expansions and bailouts.
DOBBS: And, by the way, I want to point out David Walker when he was comptroller general of this country ahead of the General Accountability Office -- I want to make this very clear -- you're not talking you know about this retrospectively. He was warning about these unfunded liabilities and the direction that this country was headed in terms specifically with fiscal policies for some time.
Pat, as we look at what is unfolding here, is there a way out? Because the housing market is being simply devastated. The prices of homes in this country in nearly every community in the country by the best reckoning, is losing value. There is not an appetite to buy. There isn't an appetite. In some cases there isn't the ability to lend. Where are we headed? What can we do?
CHOATE: Well Lou, I think several things can be done. The first thing is we need to re-regulate the financial industry, bring it all under control and regulation. The second thing that we really need is to get our economy moving again. We need more and better jobs. We need to deal with the trade deficit. We need to institute a massive infrastructure building program. Big parts of this country are falling apart. So we have it within our...
DOBBS: Let me just stop you right there.
CHOATE: Yeah.
DOBBS: The Department of Transportation just announced they can't even meet their responsibilities to fund state governments for their building projects, their transportation projects.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: This is a government -- as David said, that's running out of money itself even as its shoring up failed entities that are demonstrating that they are simply unworkable.
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CHOATE: Well Lou, I think the Department of Transportation is running a scam. They're also calling to do away with the gas tax and what they really want to do is turn the financing of our highways over to Wall Street. They want to privatize them as they've done in Indiana, et cetera. There are ways that this financing can be done...
DOBBS: Well first thing for us to do -- because we're out of time here, but I just want to ask you. I believe the first thing to do is make certain that these politicians and both parties understand that we understand they're the ones running the scam and that their representation of the majority is a sham.
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WALKER: And the other thing is you have to understand that Americans are smarter than you realize and we know math, and we can add the numbers and the numbers don't add up.
DOBBS: You know people will tell you that what we're indulging in here right now is very boring to the American people. I will make you a bet. I will make you a bet that they're not bored a bit, that instead they are just thirsting for someone in elected office and particularly two candidates who want to lead this nation to talk about these critically important issues. David we thank you for being here.
WALKER: Appreciate it.
DOBBS: David. Pat Choate, thank you very much.
(APPLAUSE)
DOBBS: David Walker.
CHOATE: Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
DOBBS: Time now for our poll. Do you believe it is time for our elected officials to represent the people who elected them, rather than special interest groups? Yes or no. We'd love to hear what you think. We'll pass that along to Senators Obama and McCain I assure you. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results upcoming.
We'll be back with much more of this, our Independent Convention in a moment. Next we take a look at the impact of Mexico's escalating drug wars on this nation's border. Two of the country's leading experts on our drug crisis join me to talk about the scourge of illegal drugs and alcohol abuse and solutions to our energy crisis and its crushing impact on this nation's standard of living. I'll be joined by legendary oil man T. Boone Pickens. He has the plan.
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DOBBS: The drug wars raging along our southern border with Mexico are out of control. This is an issue the presidential candidates say little or nothing about whatsoever. The violence that has taken more than 4,000 lives in Mexico over just the past year and a half is spreading now to this country. Assaults on our border patrol agents are up 25 percent this year. U.S. law enforcement is concerned that this is only the beginning. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Most of the images are too gruesome for television. Decapitated tortured bodies littering Mexico's landscape. Victims of a war between Mexican drug cartels, corrupt local police and 30,000 federal troops. Recently more than 100,000 Mexicans took to the streets demanding the government stop the kidnappings and violence that have killed more than 4,000 people in 20 months. The carnage is spreading to the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Certainly the trend that we're seeing is the violence that's associated in Mexico is definitely coming over here.
WIAN: (INAUDIBLE) police departments in the southwest are now struggling to solve drug cartel hits, kidnappings and human smuggling rings.
LT. LAURI BURGETT, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT: While they're holding them for ransom and kidnapping and we've had everything from homicide; we've had you know their fingers smashed with bricks. We've had them electrocuted. We've had them tied to crosses and hanging on the walls.
WIAN: The Bush administration's solution, $350 million a year approved for military training and equipment to help Mexico fight the cartels. Local law enforcement is skeptical.
ANDREW THOMAS, MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY: If we wait for the federal government to solve that problem then we're going to be as bad off as (INAUDIBLE) some of these cities along the border.
WIAN: Cities where bullet-riddled bodies show no one is winning the drug war.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: And THE Phoenix Police Department this month launched a 10-man anti-kidnapping unit designed specifically to target the Mexican drug and human smuggling cartels. Even veteran investigators say they're shocked at the level of violence that's spreading across the border from Mexico, Lou. DOBBS: And we have been reporting on this broadcast, just thinking for a moment, our broadcast alone, for years that Mexico is the principle source of methamphetamines, heroin, cocaine and marijuana into the United States and yet we will have otherwise intelligence and informed people suggest to us that they do not want to control that border.
Irrespective of the fact that it is now this week, seven years since September 11th. Our borders, our ports remain absolutely wide open.
WIAN: It's not just drugs that are coming across. Lou, the violence that's coming across is incredible. Mexican drug cartels are now operating in 195 U.S. cities. Police departments along the southwestern border are now saying that they're investigating about three dozen cases of United States citizens kidnapped and taken into Mexico by these kidnapping gangs that are operating in sync with the drug cartels.
DOBBS: The violence that is raging and to his credit, Felipe Calderon, the president of Mexico, took on the issue early, but has on his hands right now a war that is at best a stalemate between the federal authorities of Mexico and the drug cartels.
WIAN: In fact Lou, two -- more than -- by a two-to-one margin Mexican citizens believe the drug cartels are winning the drug war, Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much -- Casey Wian.
Up next here, will our Congress end partisanship over the issue of off-shore oil drilling? One of the nation's most respected oil men, T. Boone Pickens join me.
And Governor Sarah Palin energizing evangelical voters, what is the role of religion in this presidential campaign. We'll be talking about that next as we continue this Independent Convention.
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ANNOUNCER: Welcome back to "The Lou Dobbs Independent Convention"; news, debate, and opinion. Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Thank you everybody.
Well, Senate Democrats led by Senate majority leader Senator Harry Reid are as of today promising a series of votes to increase offshore oil drilling. You heard me right. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today met with house democrats to talk about new legislation that would expand offshore drilling. Senator Obama now also open to the idea of drilling offshore as well but it was just this past July that Pelosi, Reid and Obama were all saying no way, no offshore oil drilling and they found some interesting excuses. In fact Speaker Pelosi told Politico.com, quote, I'm trying to save the planet. I'm trying to save the planet. Pelosi, Reid and Obama just kept finding excuses.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE SPEAKER: Drill responsibly, in leased lands. This does not mean go into protected environmentally protected areas and drill.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEAD: There isn't a single expert, no one that says drilling is going to do anything to alleviate the long or short-term problems that we have.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we started drilling today, the first drop of oil couldn't come for another seven years. And even then, it wouldn't have a lot of impact on prices.
DOBBS: Millions, tens of millions of Americans saw it quite differently. In fact by two-thirds majority, Americans support new off-ramp shore drilling. Senators Obama, Reid, Speaker Pelosi said so in adamant terms I said right here some six weeks ago, they would definitely be changing their minds.
Where is the world is the democratic party going to go on this issue, because it seems clear to me I'll predict right now. Your party, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid will have to change their position immediately because American men and women and their families are getting murdered by this.
I said it in my usual understated fashion. The democratic leadership has finally listened to the American people on this issue at least. Offshore drilling may over some relief from soaring energy cost but there are other choices this country needs to be considering to make us far less dependent on foreign oil. Bill Tucker has our report.
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BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: 35 years ago Americans lined up for gasoline during the Arab oil embargo of 1973. Since then congress has done a lot of talking.
DANIEL KISH, INST. FOR ENERGY RESEARCH: No other nations on earth have dedicated so much time to discussing something they've done so little about.
TUCKER: And our dependency has increased, despite the fact we're a nation rich in oil and natural gas reserves. In the lower 48 states there's 19 major shale basins containing hundreds of trillions of cubic feet of gas. In addition to known reserves of 22 billions barrels of oils, the U.S. geological survey estimates that there's some 90 billion barrels of undiscovered oil and almost 1700 trillion feet of natural gas in the arctic region.
DON GAUTIER, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY: Natural gas we think there's a potential for natural gas.
TUCKER: With all of that potential, the Department of Interior says that less than .01 of one percent of federal lands and .5 percent of one percent of the outer continental shelf are under development.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: That's because of the American they have on the environment. Alternative and renewable energies do play a role in meeting our needs. According to the Department of Interior's Energy Information Agency, hydroelectric, wind, solar, bio mass, all provide 7 percent of our current electrical needs and nuclear energy provides 8 percent in terms of support.
DOBBS: That's fascinating. I know our next guest here will be surprised to hear that about wind power and natural gas.
For an independent perspective, we're joined now by legendary oil man T. Boone Pickens. He's the founder and chairman of BP Capital Management, the author of the book "The First Billion is the Hardest" and he knows a few things about billions.
It's interesting, when Boone Pickens walked into our studio here, he was greeted by I think extraordinary warm and welcoming applause, and I believe, I think this is a fair statement, it's because you're one of the few people talking about specifics and coming up with a plan to deal with the national issue and I include in that the presidential candidates of both parties. So you got to feel pretty good about that.
T. BOONE PICKENS, BP CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: True. What I felt when I came in here, and the smiles and -- when I had -- when I had eye contact with people, that they believe that I'm working for us. I'm working for America on a very --
DOBBS: And I would be one of those folks who has known you a long time and I know you are. I also know this about you. When you start something, you tend to get it done. Anybody when you first started, a lot of people are scratching their heads saying wait a minute where is he going. You already met with Obama and McCain. You're a life long republican but staying nonpartisan in moving forward your energy plan, correct?
PICKENS: Lou if I'm going to be the lone ranger, I can't have a side in this deal. I don't have a dog in this fight. So I'm the lone ranger. I have to remain that way. I have people that want to partner with me. What I'm spending is my own money. I have nobody funding me. But I take vice and I listen. You give me advice and I listen.
DOBBS: I don't remember the listening part.
PICKENS: Come on, I do listen. I'm a good listener.
DOBBS: Let me turn to the issue of natural gas. One estimate that I read recently puts over 250 trillion cubic feet, reserves in natural gas off-ramp shore. We're hearing people say off-ramp shore drilling won't mean much. Another survey showing that we got probably -- somewhere in the neighborhood of as much, according to at least one survey asp as a 20-year supply, I'm talking about total U.S. consumption of oil we could for 20 years off-ramp set that foreign oil if we were to produce it efficiently and effectively. Where do we go? Natural gas we have an abundance of it. How quickly can we move it into the economy so it relieves that $700 billion in wealth transfer you talked about so eloquently.
PICKENS: OK. Let me speak to the first point first. The 250 trillion in the offshore, that's is a myth. It's not there.
DOBBS: It's the energy department's myth then.
PICKENS: I know. If you bet on the energy department's reserve estimates or the Department of Interior or the USGS, all of them, if you bet on their reserve estimates, I promise you, you would scratch a --
DOBBS: You mean our federal government isn't working?
PICKENS: I'm not saying it isn't working. I'm saying the way they estimate those reserves, they're all --
DOBBS: Give us some --
PICKENS: So it isn't there.
DOBBS: Give us a Boone Pickens estimate.
PICKENS: OK. They give 86 billion barrels off the west and east coast in place oil. They don't say in place. In place means it's there. You can recover probably 30 percent of it. That's the way oil fields are. But you don't have 86 in place.
I think all you can get off the east and west coast, you'd be lucky if you ever got more than 2 billion barrels. Anwar, I would give it four billion barrels. So when you add up Anwar and east/west coast, they come up with 100 billion barrels. I come up with 10 billion barrels. I'm 10 percent what those estimates are.
OK. Now where we do have the gas and this is the most important feature and Bill mentioned it, in the shale basins in the United States, we've come up, we, not me but the industry has, come up with a technique to frat those carbon shales and get gas from them. All of us geologists knew it had gas in it, but didn't know how to get it out of the shale. They figured it out, the engineers did. I hate to give the engineers credit for this. But they did figure it out and we do have huge gas reserves in America to solve the problem we're faced with.
DOBBS: Realistically, because we have comments, drill, baby, drill. And we've had comments on the inverse, which is, inflate your tires it will do more good. I have a feeling both are a little screwball and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. What is the truth?
PICKENS: The truth is that we're spending $700 billion a year for foreign oil. That is insane on our part. To have let it happen. Why did it happen? How did it happen? You can blame me. I'm probably more blamable than anybody in the room being a geology gist. I saw it going on. I saw the imports coming in. And we did it. The reason we did it is because the oil is cheap. That was it. The oil was cheap. So we said send us the oil, never mind the price. Then one day gasoline went to $4.
DOBBS: How quickly and we're running out of time here, but how quickly can we convert at the level you want to, heavy transportation in this country, natural gas to such an extent that we can relieve say 25 percent to 30 percent and second question will be about wind power but relieve that dependency on foreign oil by 25 percent to 30 percent. How long would it take?
PICKENS: You could do it on the heavy duty fleet vehicle trucks. You can get your 30 percent in five years.
DOBBS: In five years? If we end that investment in wind power, how much for another 25 percent to 35 percent reduction in the overall dependency on crude oil.
PICKENS: You could do -- it would take you ten years to do 200,000 megawatts which is expansion of the grid. We have 987,000 megawatts is what our power is. In ten years you have to increase that by 20 percent. You can do all of that on wind and that would get you another 20 percent, if you took natural gas out of the power generation, and use it for transportation fuel, that would get you another 20 percent. In ten years, you could reduce your imports -- I got to throw in one word here. If you have the leadership, you heard that.
DOBBS: It's one of the reasons I think everybody in here is applauding. You're offering that leadership. We need more business leaders like you offering that leadership instead of deferring to the business round table or chamber of commercial. We need it obviously politically, maybe we'll find it. Boone Pickens, thanks for being here.
PICKENS: You bet.
DOBBS: Up next, our independent convention, the national crisis over drug abuse and drug trafficking. I'll be joined by two of the nation's leading experts on illegal drug abuse and drug trafficking.
And how big a will evangelical voters have in this election. God and politics when the independent convention continues.
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DOBBS: Welcome back to this independent convention. Joining me now, Joseph Califano, chairman, president of National Institute of Addiction And Abuse at Columbia University. The former U.S. Secretary of Health Education and Welfare; Joe, good to have you with us. He is the author of the very important book "High Society" how substance abuse ravages America and what to do about it.
And filmmaker Rusty Fleming. He is the producer, director and writer of a new documentary "Drug Wars Silver or Lead." Good to have you with us, Rusty.
Let's begin with putting this in context. Let's first -- let's show what people are using, estimates of drug use in this country. We can put those statistics up. 15 million Americans smoke marijuana. Almost 2.5 million people are using cocaine. 1 million use ecstasy and hallucinogens like LSD and PCP. 4.5 million of our teens have used controlled prescription drugs to get high. That puts it in people terms, doesn't it? And that doesn't even include alcohol abuse, but we'll lead that to another time.
And what is the cost? $230 billion is the estimate for 2006. And 25 percent of Medicare hospital spending, the direct -- the direct result of drug use, 20 percent of all Medicaid hospital spending as well. It is -- it is just extraordinary. And all of that, of course, from CASA.
Why are the presidential candidates not talking about this, Joe?
JOSEPH CALIFANO, FMR. SECY. OF HEALTH EDUC. & WELFARE: It's inexcusable. Because think about this, Lou, 60 percent. 6 out of every 10 high scholars go to school where's drugs are used, kept and sold.
DOBBS: What is the number again?
CALIFANO: 60 percent of kids going to high school. 6 out of 10 go to schools drug invested.
DOBBS: You know what people are thinking, no, no, not in our high school this. Is from urban centers, this is from --
CALIFANO: It's all over the country. We've looked at it t. Think about this, the government requires parents to send their kids to school or they're violating the law. They're truants. If the government requires parents to send their kids to school the government has an obligation to clean the drugs out of those schools. And our candidate should talk about that.
DOBBS: They should.
CALIFANO: We demand parents send their kid into that kind of a situation.
DOBBS: How can we permit presidential candidates to not talk about the devastation that is being absolutely wreaked on young people by illegal illicit drugs.
Rusty, I want to turn to your compelling movie showing violence of narco terrorists, the drug cartels in Mexico what they are doing in this country. People are not focusing on what those narco terrorists are doing to Americans, the influence and the destruction they're bringing. I would like everyone to listen to this part of the movie explaining how easy it is to move drugs into this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they prepare a shipment of 40 tons in three trailers they will send three or four cars ahead with 50 to 60 kilos of drugs in each. When they reach the bridge the dogs will detect one of the shipments in the car. At this point all of the police will focus on that vehicle. In the meantime the traffic on the bridge must keep going. At that point they only have one officer trying to direct traffic and all he's saying is, go, go, go. Allowing the trailers to pass through undetected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: An important documentary, an important documentation of what is happening. Most people don't realize that Mexico remains the principle source of methamphetamines, heroin, cocaine and marijuana into the United States and our elected officials in both parties, this president, this congress are doing nothing about it.
RUSTY FLEMING, "DRUG WARS: SILVER OR LEAD": They don't have a clue. It's overwhelming. And what you just saw is every day. There's a -- there is a notion in this country that this fence is going to stop all of this, and that couldn't be any more wrong. Number one, 80 percent of those drugs aren't coming through the desert or over that river. They're coming through in those trucks. They're not coming through 50 pounds at a time. The ports of entry, legal ports of entry, that's right.
DOBBS: We think.
FLEMING: Well, look, I got close enough to these guys, I can tell you they had to fence clocked before the first bucket of cement ever showed up out there.
DOBBS: The reality we have a generation of people we have inadequate addiction our young people and schools and inadequate security at those schools, as you pointed out. We're forcing kids to go to school in which law enforcement has failed to provide a secure environment. We don't have security at our ports. Our ports of entry or our ports in this country and why isn't there a national discussion about what we're doing to young Americans in particular?
CALIFANO: Well, Lou, the impact of what is happening on the border and elsewhere, we surveyed 12 to 17-year-olds this year. OK? 5 million of them, over 20 percent, said that they can buy marijuana within an hour in this country and 11 million of them said that they can get it in less than a day. I mean this stuff is everybody. So we have a responsibility to clean it up.
DOBBS: They said that this is not about supply. It's really about addiction. The fact is, it is about addiction. It is about supply. And for everyone not to think that we have to attack on all fronts, rusty, is insane.
FLEMING: You know, it's like this. We could do so much better on the demand reduction as well as the supply reduction. But if there was one politician out there, one American, to secure that border and really secure it, this nation -- as sorry as a congress that we have today, the nation would applaud that. Because we could do nothing in this country to make it safer in the seven years since 9/11 than to secure that southwest border.
DOBBS: Rusty, thank you very much for being here. Joe, thank you, sir. Appreciate you each and every day for a lot of folks.
CALIFANO: Thank you.
DOBBS: It's a war we can't afford to continue losing, as you gentlemen both know so well.
Up next, the role of religion in this election. We're talking to independent convention continues. God and politics are next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Campbell Brown. Coming up in the "ELECTION CENTER," Americans can't seem to get enough of Sarah Palin. We've done so much reporting on the other candidates, we do have a lot of catching up to do with regard to the Alaska governor. We have more tonight, including words by her VP rival, Joe Biden, on her position on stem cells, some words that prompted an angry reaction from the McCain campaign. We're also going to put internet rumors about Palin to our no bias no bull test. Plus, someone who has known her longer than anyone. Our exclusive interview with her dad. All in the "ELECTION CENTER." Lou Dobbs independent convention continues in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight's poll results somewhat overwhelming, 99 percent of you saying it's time for our elected officials to represent the people who elected them rather than special interest groups. What a novel idea. We'll be sharing that with the Obama and McCain campaigns.
Joining me now Family Research Council president, Tony Perkins. Good to have you with us and Bishop Harry Jackson. Bishop Jackson is pastor of the Hope Christian Church in Maryland. They are also here to tell you the authors of the terrific book, "Personal Faith and Public Policy." I can't recommend it too highly. It's terrific. Thank you both for being here. And in Boston Father John Paris, Walsh Professor of Bioethics at Boston College. Father Paris, it's good to have you with us.
Religion, god and politics, we have to start with Governor Sarah Palin. I mean, this network, like any other network, we know that by one report that the democratic party has dropped in 30 people into Alaska, the governor's home town, to find out what her religion is, what she's all about. I mean, they are serious. What is going on? Religion is playing a role in this presidential election like never before. Bishop Jackson?
BISHOP HARRY JACKSON, HIGH IMPACT LEADERSHIP COALITION: Well, I think really it's been disillusioned by the process. Some time ago, Tony and I talked about being in a meeting with key people from religious rights and it looks like we aghast to the fact that it looks like we are trying it out when folks need us and because of our views we are used and then they go away for two or four more years and don't respond.
DOBBS: Can I tell you something, Bishop? You're not exactly the lone ranger. I think the rest of us feel that way, too. Tony, this is remarkable. I mean, we've got everything interest Jeremiah Wright and the estrangement of the pastor of 20 years of Senator Obama. We have the two pastors who were going to endorse or did endorse Senator McCain and then there was an estrangement. Are there lasting political relationships with political figures?
TONY PERKINS, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: That's very interesting, Lou. I think the McCain campaign made a tremendous pick in Sarah Palin in terms of turning around a campaign that was headed south. There is some enthusiasm and there's some hope that maybe she will reflect what the party reflects. 73 percent of the delegates at the republican convention were pro-life. She has those positions.
Let me tell you, they are in a very critical juncture. If they begin to retreat and make apologies or somehow back away from the views, the religious views of what she holds and what she represents and moves away from the people that hold those views, I think it could be once again deflate the campaign. They're at a very critical juncture.
DOBBS: Father Paris, Governor Palin, whatever else may be said about her, is a woman who is living her philosophy, her sense of morality, her religious beliefs, I believe, in this case, having a child with the Down syndrome. I mean, that's not abstract. That's not philosophy. That is living your life. One has to believe that the Catholic Church, given its view on abortion and when life does begin, has to be embracing her.
PARIS: Well, I don't think the Catholic Church is going to embrace any particular candidate. But they certainly do embrace the idea, and are very pleased with the thought that a clear position is being put forward that life begins at conception and abortion is morally wrong. That's the Catholic position, and it's clearly articulated in the church.
DOBBS: Well, you know, you mentioned that, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is in all sorts of trouble with her archbishop, apparently. The issue of her communion apparently are at stake in discussions with her archbishop, because she said that there was controversy about when life begins in the Catholic Church. Your thoughts?
PARIS: Politicians should not be discussing minute theological issues. You know, I spent four years studying theology, and you can't put it on a 3x5 card. And when they go into those issues, they get into a terrible morass.
DOBBS: Well, for example, one of the things people are focusing on is Governor Palin's statement before her church last year saying, "pray for our military that are striving to do what is right for this country, that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God." Your reaction, Bishop Jackson?
JACKSON: Well, I think she's asking for God's favor and blessing upon this war that we're engaged in. It's hard to say that any war is God's highest good. It's always based on sin, it's always based on evil. But I believe that's overblown. She's basically saying, protect the people and prosper the nation. But if you're morally flawed and the war has a bad premise to begin with, it's hard for God to redeem it.
DOBBS: You get the last word, Tony?
PERKINS: Well, this is a political convention, Lou. I've just been looking for the hats.
DOBBS: To pass one or to...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Father Paris, thanks for being with us. Tony Perkins, thank you very much. Bishop Harry Jackson, than you, gentlemen.
And we thank you for being with us tonight. Tomorrow, our independent convention continues at the hold their feet to the fire rally in Washington. I'll be joined there by all of the folks concerned about amnesty, H1B visas, and really the bankruptcy of our middle class by those on the left and the right who like cheap foreign labor, among other issues. Please join us for that. Good night from New York.
