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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Debtor Nation; Energy Solutions; Best Government Money Can Buy
Aired September 14, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN "NEWSROOM" ANCHOR: I'm Don Lemon. We'll see you tonight at 11:00 thanks for joining us in the CNN News Room. Again, see you tonight in 11:00.
Here's Lou Dobbs right now.
LOU DOBBS, CNN "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" ANCHOR: Tonight, the presidential contest is in a dead heat. Some polls, in fact, give Senator McCain a clear lead.
Independent voters in this country will be deciding just who our next president will be. And both of these candidates are struggling to win the support of those Independent voters.
This week we're holding the first ever televised convention of Independents. We'll be talking about the issues the presidential candidates are ignoring and avoiding; the issues most important to most Americans. Among those issues tonight: our economy, working men and women on the brink of disaster; the federal government announcing the biggest institutional bailout in history rescuing mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. But what about all of those whose homes are being foreclosed up? Our government seems to be at times utterly broken, unaccountable corporate elites and special interest dictating public policy in Washington.
And much of our national media seems unable to shake liberal bias; many news organizations in this country simply failing to cover this election in a nonpartisan, non-ideological and objective manner.
We'll be talking about all of that, discussing those issues and much more here tonight right here at our very first "Lou Dobbs Independent Convention."
It is now my pleasure to call this convention to order.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a special edition "The Lou Dobbs Independent Convention;" news, debate and opinion. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. Tonight, the war on our middle class has escalated. The American dream is under threat as never before. Run away government and consumer spending is bankrupting our nation. That is not an overstatement. It's not hyperbole. And millions and millions of Americans are feeling the pain.
For the first time in our history, most Americans say their children will not have a better living standard than they do. Joining us here tonight, in the studio for our very special Independent Convention, an outstanding audience of voters, Independents, Republicans, Democrats. Independent voters and Independently-minded voters of both parties now demanding a president who will tackle the tremendous challenges that face this nation and the American people.
The latest polls for the first time show Senator McCain to now be leading Senator Obama. Most Independent voters apparently believe Senator McCain and Governor Palin have the best policies and the greatest appeal, at least, to solve this country's worsening problems. The economy is the number one issue in this presidential campaign.
We face an economic crisis, financial crisis of epic proportions, $53 trillion of unfunded liability, and some $16 trillion of National Trade Debt. At the same time, millions of Americans struggling to cope with the crippling burden and personal debt.
But as our Kitty Pilgrim now reports none of the presidential candidates are addressing the critical issues on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campaign promises are nice. But both parties have burdened America with crushing debt.
ROBERT BIXBY, THE CONCORD COALITION: The budget deficit for this year is probably going to be around $400 billion. Next year it could be as high as $500 billion depending upon what happens with the economy.
PILGRIM: $9 trillion in National Debt. The interest last year was $230 billion. More than was spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. More is spent on the interest on National Debt than is spent on education. Some blame Congress for putting through too many pet projects.
J.D. FOSTER, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Right now, they don't have anything that constrains them effectively and so they just waive the budget rules that they enact and spend more money.
PILGRIM: Families are in terrible shape crushed by debt. Personal bankruptcies increased almost 30 percent in the first half of this year.
ROBERT MANNING, ROCHESTER INSTITUTE TECHNOLOGY: The average American household with credit card debt today has over $15,000. That's three out of five households.
PILGRIM: Those households, traditionally the strongest asset of Americans are now a liability; by the end of June 1.2 million mortgages where in foreclosure. The three-month period ending June 30th saw nearly 3 million homeowners behind on their payments.
Kitty Pilgrim, CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP) DOBBS: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today, met with House Democrats to talk about new legislation that would expand offshore drilling. Senator Obama, now also open to the idea of drilling offshore as well.
But it was just this past July that Pelosi, Reid, and Obama were all saying no way; no offshore oil drilling. And they found some interesting excuses. In fact, Speaker Pelosi told politico.com, quote, "I'm trying to save the planet. I'm trying to save the planet." Pelosi, Reid and Obama just kept finding excuses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) HOUSE SPEAKER: Drill responsibly in least lands. This does not mean go into protected, environmentally protected areas and drill.
SEN. HARRY REID, (D) MAJORITY LEADER: There isn't a single expert, no one, that says drilling is going to do anything to alleviate the long or short-term problems we have.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If we started drilling today, the first drop of oil wouldn't come for another seven years. And even then, it wouldn't have a lot of impact on prices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, millions -- well, in fact, tens of millions of Americans saw it quite differently. In fact by a two-thirds majority, Americans support new offshore drilling. And when Senators Obama and Reid and Speaker Pelosi were opposed to drilling and said so in rather adamant terms, I said right here some six weeks ago they would definitely be changing their minds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Where in the world is a Democratic Party going to go on this issue? Because it seems clear to me, and I will predict right now, your party, your presidential candidate, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are going to have to change their position on this immediately, because American working men and women and their families are getting murdered by this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: I said it in my usual understated fashion. The Democratic leadership has finally listened to the American people on this issue, at least. Offshore drilling may offer only some relief from soaring energy costs, but there are other choices that this country needs to be considering to make us far less dependent on foreign oil.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: 35 years ago, Americans lined up for gasoline during the Arab oil embargo of 1973. Since then, Congress has done a lot of talking.
DANIEL KISH, INST. FOR ENERGY RESEARCH: No other nations on earth have dedicated so much time to discussing something they've done so little about.
TUCKER: And our dependency has increased despite the fact that we're a nation rich in oil and natural gas reserves. In the lower 48 states, there are 19 major shell basins containing hundreds of trillions of cubic feet of natural gas.
In addition to our known reserves of 22 billion barrels of oil, a U.S. Geological Survey estimates that there are some 90 billion barrels of undiscovered oil and almost 1,700 trillion cubic feet of natural gas in the Arctic region.
DON GAUTIER, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY: For natural gas, we think there's enormous potential for natural gas, some of which in northern Alaska.
TUCKER: With all that potential the Department of Interior says that less than one-tenth of one percent of Federal Lands and one-half of one percent of the outer continental shelf are under development.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: That's because many Americans are concerned about the impact that drilling will have on the environment. Now, alternative and renewable energies do play a role in meeting our energy needs. According to the Department of Interior's Energy Information Agency, hydroelectric, wind, solar, biomass, all provide about seven percent of our current electrical needs. And Lou, nuclear energy adds another eight percent in terms of support.
DOBBS: All right, that's fascinating. And I know that our next guest here will be surprised to hear that about wind power and natural gas.
For an independent perspective we're joined by legendary oilman T. Boone Pickens. He's the founder and the chairman of BP Capital Management, the author of the brand new book, "The First Billion is the Hardest." He knows a few things about billions.
It was interesting. When Boone Pickens walked into our studio here, he was greeted by, I think, an extraordinarily warm and welcoming applause. And I believe -- I think this is a fair statement. It's because you're one of the few people talking about specifics in coming up with a plan to deal with the national issue. And I include in that the presidential candidates of both parties. So you got to feel pretty good about that.
T. BOONE PICKENS, BP CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Thank you. Thank you. What I felt when I came in here and the smiles and when I had -- when I had eye contact with people that they believe that I'm working for us. I'm working for America on a very --
DOBBS: I happen to be one of those folks who's known you a long time. And I know you are. I also know this about you that when you start something you tend to get it done. And if anybody -- when you first started, I think a lot of people are scratching their heads and they're saying wait a minute, where's he going? But you've already met with both Obama and McCain. You're a life-long Republican, but you're staying absolutely nonpartisan in moving forward your energy plan. Correct?
PICKENS: Lou, if I'm going to be the Lone Ranger, I can't -- I can't -- I can't have a side in this deal. I don't have a dog in this fight.
DOBBS: All right.
PICKENS: And so I'm the Lone Ranger. I have to remain that way. I've had people that want to partner with me.
What I'm spending is my own money. I have nobody funding me. And -- but I take advice and I listen. You know that.
DOBBS: Realistically, because we've had comments, you know, drill, baby, drill, and we've had comments on the inverse, which is, you know, inflate your tires, it'll do more good.
PICKENS: That's a good one.
DOBBS: I have a feeling that both are a little bit screw ball and that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. What is the truth?
PICKENS: The truth is, is that we're spending $700 billion a year for foreign oil. That is insane on our part to have let it happen. Why did it happen? And how did it happen?
And you can blame me. I'm probably more blamable than anybody in the room being a geologist. I saw it going on. I saw the imports coming in. And we did it.
The reason we did it is because the oil is cheap. That was it. The oil was cheap. And so we said send us the oil and never mind the price. Then one day gasoline went to $4.
DOBBS: How quickly and -- we're running out of time here. But how quickly can we convert at the level you want to heavy transportation in this country to natural gas to such an extent that we can relieve by, say, 25 percent to 30 percent? And the second question will be about wind power. But relieve that dependency on foreign oil by 25 percent to 30 percent? How long would it take?
PICKENS: You could do it on heavy duty fleet vehicles, trucks, you could get your 30 percent in five years.
DOBBS: In five years, if we add to that an investment of wind power, how much for another 25 percent to 30 percent reduction in the overall dependency on crude oil?
PICKENS: You could -- you could do it -- it would take you ten years to do 200,000 megawatts, which is the expansion of the grid. We have now 987,000 megawatts; that is what our power is. For ten years you have to increase that by 20 percent. You could do all of that on wind.
And that would get you another 20 percent if you took natural gas out of the power generation and use it for transportation fuel; that would get you another 20 percent. In ten years, you could reduce your imports -- wait a minute. I got to throw in one word here. If you have the leadership, you heard that.
DOBBS: Oh. This is one of the reasons that I think everybody in here is applauding, because you're offering that leadership. We need more business leaders like you offering that leadership instead of deferring to the business round table or the U.S. Chamber of Commerce or just holding their silence, period.
And we desperately need it, obviously, politically. And they will find it. You're setting a good example for a couple of presidential candidates.
Boone Pickens thanks for being here.
PICKENS: You bet Lou thank you.
DOBBS: Up next, hear the Liberal National Media's blatant bias in this presidential campaign. I said it. I will have upset some of my colleagues in the national media. Maybe even some here at CNN. We'll find out.
I'll be talking with two of the most prominent media critics in the country; Howie Curts of "The Washington Post" and CNN and Kennel Lata of "The New Yorker" about the media elite's role in this election if there is one. We'll explore that.
And Independent candidates are fighting back against the powerful special interests that control Washington.
All of that and a lot more coming up next on our Independent Convention.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Welcome back to CNN's first ever Special Independent Convention designed just for you.
The House and the Senate returned to Washington, D.C. today. You knew what had to happen sooner or later. They'll be back in session for three weeks before their next vacation.
That means thousands of lobbyists are also back to work in Washington spending a lot of money. Buying influence in our nation's capital, representing powerful special interest groups instead of the American people who elected those representatives.
As Lisa Sylvester now reports, a growing number of Independent candidates are fighting back against the special interests that now control the people's government. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID KRIKORIAN, INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE: My name is David Krikorian and I'm running to be our representative in the United States Congress.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: David Krikorian is a small business owner running for Ohio's second district congressional seat as an Independent.
KRIKORIAN: I'm not a professional politician. I'm pretty much an average guy who's had enough with what passes for leadership in this country. And I wanted to do my part as a patriotic American to bring positive change and some sanity back to our government.
SYLVESTER: Krikorian wants to wrestle power in Washington away from the elite and special interests.
KRIKORIAN: Our government right now is entirely run by political parties. And the political parties are in bed with major corporations and special interests groups in our country. They are not working for the benefit of the American people. That is not right and that is not America.
SYLVESTER: The lobbying power of corporate America has been growing and crowding up the voice of the little guy.
MASSIE RITSCH, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: If you look at the companies that account for the most money in politics. It's a who's who of major American industry, Wall Street banks, law firms, accounting firms, media companies; this is where the bulk of the money is.
SYLVESTER: And big business gets its way. Tax breaks for big oil, bailouts for banks and lax regulation of the mortgage industry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And we are seeing how that lax regulation is now playing out of course with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And we should tell you, Lou, that these organizations, these two entities have been really big players when it comes to lobbying in Washington. They have hired an army of lobbyists.
We've got some figure that we want to show you. And keep in mind this is just last year alone. Fannie Mae spent $5.6 million on lobbying, Freddie Mac $8.5 million on lobbying. And they have also participated in these political conventions, hosting some of those parties, and they have showered these lawmakers with campaign contributions.
We've got a list I think you might be interested in and $1.5 million is how much they have spent so far just this election cycle for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Number one at the list of topping of that list is Chris Dodd. He is the chair, the powerful chair of the Senate Banking Committee that oversees Fannie and Freddie. And number three, very interesting here. We have none other than Senator Barack Obama. He has received the third highest amount in contributions from Fannie and Freddie.
DOBBS: What's going on here? I can't believe that. I'm stunned.
SYLVESTER: This is Washington. This is how it works Lou, as you well know.
DOBBS: I love the fact, second, third and fourth, Kerry, Obama, and Clinton. Running for president seems to be a pretty good deal, doesn't it? I mean that's incredible.
SYLVESTER: And you know, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac they are not the only ones. I mean lobbying in Washington is a high art form.
We want to show you some other numbers; the amount spent on lobbying in Washington has doubled in the last ten years. It has doubled. It was $1.4 billion in 1998. Today it's $2.8 billion.
And I know this will not come as a surprise to you, but the biggest spender when it comes to lobbying, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. They spent $380 million in the last ten years on lobbying.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
Next, Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader and Libertarian Party candidate, Bob Barr, they join me. We'll talk about all of the issues the other folks aren't.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Welcome back. Ralph Nader is running for president, as you know, as an Independent candidate. Nader a ground breaking consumer advocate now in his third major presidential try and in 2000 Ralph Nader drew almost 3 million votes as the Green Party candidate. And we're delighted to have you with us.
Now let's if I may, Ralph, straight to our couple of issues, and we're focusing on to some large degree tonight on foreign policy but what would you do with our troops in Iraq?
RALP NADER, (I) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bring them home. A six-month negotiated withdrawal deadline. Bring home the soldiers and the corporate contractors. Give Iraq and its oil back to the Iraqis. Knock the bottom out of the insurgency.
During the six months, we should have U.N. sponsored elections and work a little bit of autonomy between Kurds and Shiites within the unified Iraq which is what they all want. Plus continued humanitarian aid, otherwise it's just going to fester. They think that the violence is declining. But it can explode at any moment, if we're still there.
DOBBS: So you want out in 10 months sooner than Barack Obama. NADER: Well, he'd keep 50,000 soldiers there.
DOBBS: All right. Let's turn to Afghanistan, your thoughts there?
NADER: That's a tougher issue. We should never have -- we should have had a multi-lateral strike force to go after the backers of the attackers. Instead we destabilized the whole country again.
Afghanistan's not really a country. They're tribal chieftains. And it's a very tough geographically. So I think that the more soldiers we put in there, what do solders do? They fight, they destroy, they blow up. So wedding parties get blown up, children and it fans the flames.
DOBBS: So what should do?
NADER: I think we've got to get out of there. And I think we've got to try to get --
DOBBS: So withdraw from Afghanistan as well?
NADER: I think we've got to unless we see a better plan. Because even Admiral Mullen and others are saying there's no military victory there at all.
DOBBS: Were you struck by the fact Admiral Mullen said straightforwardly that there isn't enough time, there aren't enough troops?
NADER: He's absolutely right. The Russians couldn't conquer Afghanistan when the Soviet Union, the British couldn't and we're not going to. The best thing we can do is really push for jobs. For a public works and so on. It's a lot cheaper than pouring in another 20, 30 U.S. --
DOBBS: A trillion dollars it would have been a lot of investment to support both Iraq and Afghanistan, wouldn't it?
NADER: Just think of a trillion dollars rebuilding in this country; schools, clinics, drinking water systems, public transit, good jobs that couldn't be exported to China.
DOBBS: And more than 30,000 American troops wounded and more than 4,000 killed.
NADER: It's actually 100,000 wounded.
DOBBS: No, no. I don't want to get into that. Because I've got to stick with what we've got and I know there's an ideological viewpoint that suggests otherwise. I'm not going to play those games, Ralph, not even with you. As much as I'd like to.
Nader: Some other time with the Pentagon rules.
DOBBS: So let's turn to the issue of trade policy, immigration policy. They seemed to have been wedded in the minds of corporate America in terms of their decision to put American labor into direct competition with the cheapest labor in the world. What would you do?
NADER: Right, it'll never work. No American worker can compete with 50-cent an hour hard-working Chinese workers using modern equipment. That's absolute advantage. That's not comparative advantage, so we've got to withdraw as is our right. Six-month notice of withdrawal from NAFTA and WTO; renegotiate these agreements so they pull up other conditions in the world, not allow fascists and communist dictatorships with multi national companies in this nation pull down our workers.
DOBBS: We appreciate it very much being with us. Ralph Nader, good to have you here. Come back soon.
Former Congressman Bob Barr is the Libertarian's Party candidate for president and former Federal prosecutor. Barr represented Georgia's 7th District for eight years as a Republican in 2006. He joined the Libertarian Party and Barr is addressing the critical issues affecting Americans including border security, the crisis of illegal immigration.
And we're glad to have you with us here tonight. Thank you very much for being here, Bob.
BOB BARR, LIBERTARIAN PARTY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's my pleasure, Lou, thank you.
DOBBS: And how many states are you going to be on the ballot?
We should be on the ballot in 47 or 48 states. A couple of them --
DOBBS: And the District of Columbia?
BARR: Yes, sir.
DOBBS: And with that and we know that Ralph Nader is going to be around 45, somewhere in there, at least right now. Maybe more by the time we get to election time. What do you think the impact of your candidacy will be here?
BARR: I think it's going to be a major impact. We're already seeing that. We're in 6 percent polling nationally according to Zogby, 10 percent, 11 percent in some states. And some of the issues that are finally starting to resonate, some of the perspectives that we've been pushing for a number of months now --
DOBBS: Like what?
BARR: Like the danger of the Fannie Mae bailout, the housing bailout, the Bear Stearns bailout, things that the two major parties just sort of say, oh, we support that and move on without being forced to answer the tough questions.
DOBBS: Here's the tough question. To me, at least, in all of this, is where do to bailouts stop?
BARR: That's precisely the point. They don't. One bailout leads to another. You can't say we can't give you a bailout. We can't help you even though we've helped others.
You know, you open that door and you let all of them out.
DOBBS: What do you see as the principal issues in the minds of the American people that's most persuasive for your candidacy?
BARR: Economics. Returning power to -- economic power to the people of this country; $3.1 trillion national budget right now, nearly a $10 trillion debt; $400 million a day going down the drain over in Iraq. And the American people are being stretched to the limit. Nobody's paying any attention to them. They're more concerned about Iraq, for example.
DOBBS: Well, each of those things are matters for great concern. What would be your judgment on what we should do in both Iraq and Afghanistan?
BARR: Two very, very different situations.
In Iraq we have and will have at the end of this Bush administration still close to 150,000 troops over there with all sorts of support personnel; $400 million a day. We need to stop that. There is absolutely no justification. We now know there was not the justification in the first place.
DOBBS: And Afghanistan?
BARR: Afghanistan, what we should be doing there is not propping up the government which props up the drug lords and all sorts of other undesirables. Use very specific, very surgical operations to ferret out the terrorists.
DOBBS: As a libertarian, let me ask you this returning to the issue of the bailouts; the role of regulation in these markets and institutions collapsing.
BARR: The role of the government first of all is to prevent fraud. It already has the tools to do that. If, in fact, the government did cause through too much support for these government-sponsored enterprises, then it has a responsibility to responsibly find an exit strategy.
What Obama and Senator McCain are both supporting is not an exit strategy. It's continued government propping up. That's not a long- term solution.
DOBBS: National sovereignty, security, border security specifically the illegal immigration crisis?
BARR: First of all, we have to secure the border. Libertarians believe very strongly in securing the border and protecting the national sovereignty. You put as many personnel on the border as you need to, to police the borders properly and to require those seeking to enter this country to do so lawfully.
DOBBS: Bob Barr, thank you very much. BARR: Thank you Lou.
DOBBS: Next, liberal national media elite is facing new charges of outright open bias in this presidential campaign? I know, you can't imagine that. I'll be joined by two of this country's top media critics.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Welcome back to the "Lou Dobbs' Independent Convention." News, debate and opinion. Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Welcome back to our independent convention, We're examining the critical issues facing this country. And among those issues, the nation's mainstream media. It is, I think, a fairly safe assertion to put forward that the national media is liberal. It's biased, and this year, at least to me, and as an advocacy journalist I can say these sorts of things here on CNN, I think they're missing a lot under the veil of objectivity and the impulses of something less than objective, at least in my view.
To straighten me out, among other things, Howard Kurtz joins us, media reporter for the "Washington Post," host of CNN's "Reliable Sources." Howard, great to have you here.
HOWARD KURTZ, MEDIA REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Thank you.
DOBBS: And Ken Auletta, columnist, "New Yorker," author, terrific guy. Good to have you with us.
KEN AULETTA, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORKER": Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Let me turn first of you, Howie. Just as a matter of straightforward fact, I believe that - in fact, it's my opinion, anyway, I believe that the national media has revealed a lack of objectivity unprecedented in campaign coverage.
KURTZ: If you look at the last year and a half, Lou, you know, I've never seen so much coverage and so much positive coverage of a presidential candidate as Barack Obama has gotten up through the big overseas trip where some of the coverage was just gushing. In recent weeks I think there's been a little more skepticism in the coverage, not because of any great ethical reassessing, but the race has tightened which makes poll driven journalists wonder well what's he doing wrong? Why isn't he leading this race in a democratic year by ten points?
DOBBS: Ken, do you agree?
AULETTA: Yes and no. I disagree with you. With your notion that -
DOBBS: We don't want to go there.
AULETTA: No, I don't.
(LAUGHTER) AULETTA: You need to have some disagreement on this show, Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
AULETTA: I think that the notion that the press has a liberal bias, I don't think that's the operative bias of the press. If you said do I think most reporters, national reporters tend to be more liberal and vote democratic, I think that's true. We've seen surveys that show that. But I don't think the operative bias of the press is liberalism. I think the operative bias is conflict.
And so when Barack Obama had trouble with Reverend Wright, the so- called liberal press was all over chewing on his leg as they chewed on Hillary Clinton's leg, as they didn't favor John Edwards, arguably the most liberal of the democratic candidates. So I think the operative bias is we want conflict, we want stories. And that leaves to a lot of the democratic press lapses in a campaign.
DOBBS: The reality is, for the national media, it seems to me, the way in which we watched for a week Sarah Palin, the governor of Alaska being literally pillared in cable news networks, in newspapers, amongst them I would include certainly "The New York Times," "The Washington Post," Howard, I wouldn't want to leave anybody out.
KURTZ: Thank you.
DOBBS: The "Los Angeles Times." That was an extraordinary period.
KURTZ: I want to put it in a different category. The very legitimate pieces. National reporters have gone to Alaska to report on the governor's record, whether she was against the bridge to nowhere, and now she claims she was for it originally and now claims she was against it.
I must say that I've been very troubled by the condescending tone. Forget about the rumors. Of the way that this woman has been covered, this great debate, how can she be the mother of five children and still aspire to the vice presidency. I think a lot of that just reeked of sexism, frankly, as well as kind of a bias toward a woman who is a hunter and who is a strong anti-abortion advocate. That has really troubled me. I think there's been a little bit of a pulling back, particularly after a rather successful speech to the Republican National Convention the other night.
DOBBS: Yes, I think there's been a realization and I can't agree with you more, Howie. I think there's been a realization among the national media suddenly here over the course of the past several days that there's a little nonsense. The games, availing themselves on objectivity, in playing little games of insinuation and nuance for a bias in this case, I think predominantly liberal, just isn't going to fly because the American people are reacting to it.
AULETTA: If the point is that the national media is often out of touch, I totally agree with that. They often are.
DOBBS: That's one of the points. AULETTA: But I think that it's legitimate to raise questions about whether McCain vetted this person to be vice president and whether McCain - and whether McCain's people put out stories that were false that the FBI had vetted her.
DOBBS: How many stories ran about whether or not McCain had vetted her simply because other news organizations had gone after her? Like sharks after blood in the water. The fact is they had no evidence whatsoever to whatever degree the vetting was.
AULETTA: Oh, we did. Rick Davis put out a falsehood. He said that the FBI -- he's the campaign manager -
DOBBS: He put out another falsehood. By the way, I'll add to that.
AULETTA: Which one?
DOBBS: The one where he said campaigns aren't about issues.
AULETTA: It's about personalities. You're right.
DOBBS: Ken Auletta, Howard Kurtz, thank you both.
DOBBS: And coming up next, insults and partisanship on the campaign trail. The presidential campaign, well, both campaigns focusing on gender, politics, and ignoring the real issues, facing the American people, ignoring, avoiding, evading.
Three radio talk show hosts here at the fair hold their feet to the fire rally. We'll tell us what they think. We'll continue in one moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Welcome back to the "Lou Dobbs' Independent Convention." News, debate and opinion. Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Joining me now, two of my favorite radio talk show hosts in the country. We're all here with about 50 of us, I guess, at this holder feature, the fire rally. Being, which was under the auspices of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. I'm joined by Joe Madison, XM Radio. Joe, good to have you here. Fred Flannigan of WKRS in Waukegan, Illinois. The program also being simulcast over WKRF. Fred, good to have you here.
And back with us, Roger Hedgecock, KOGO in San Diego. Roger, thank you for sticking around and thank you for organizing this. You know, tomorrow, seven years since September 11th. And this town acts like there's nothing -- nothing of a disconnect in the fact that our borders remain wide open, our ports wide open, that a million people cross our southern border illegally every year. Roger, I mean, what do your listeners think about the madness of that reality?
ROGER HEDGECOCK, KOGO IN SAN DIEGO: That it is, Lou. Madness. I think we've been lucky as Chertoff, Secretary Chertoff has said, we've been lucky. But we've also been proactive. I think the Bush administration has broken up a lot of these terrorist rings. But you've got to admit and I think Chertoff does there's an element of luck when you leave your borders open, when you leave your ports open, when you aren't as vigilant in these areas as we have been, for instance, at the local airport.
DOBBS: And what are we to make, Fred, of these two presidential candidates, Obama and McCain, and neither has the guts to stand up and say we've got to stop illegal immigration, we got secure our borders, we have got to secure our ports?
FRED FLANNIGAN, WKRS IN WAUKEGAN: Well, what I actually believe, Lou, is if you're looking for answers from either the republican or democratic party, you're wasting your time.
DOBBS: Right.
FLANNIGAN: The answer is an independent candidate, where that independent candidate is, who he is, I don't know. But if the question is immigration, immigration enforcement, immigration on a local basis, neither of these candidates are the answer.
JOE MADISON, XM RADIO: The answer also is that the media has to really hone in on this issue. This dumbing down of America. I mean, this whole thing about the lipstick controversy was obviously the dumbest thing we could have spent our time on.
This issue of immigration, when I bring it up on my show, I can tell you I could spend four hours. People understand their wages are being undercut, they understand unemployment is being impacted. It is really the economic issue as well as a national security issue in the minds of most people out here, Republican, Democrat or Independent.
DOBBS: You know, at the same time, Zoe Lofgren, the Democratic Party, Nancy Pelosi, the leadership of this Congress and Senator Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, advancing a program initiative in this Congress to add another 550,000 visas that would bring in cheap foreign labor.
By the way, those visa holders typically make about 20 to 25 percent less than the American worker they replace. We know that most -- the largest number of companies seeking those visas are Indian companies based in India but who have offices here that are outsourcing work from American companies, taking those American jobs from the middle class. And we don't have congressmen, senators or a president with the guts or the care to say a word.
MADISON: And can I add one other thing? The impact that it's had on foreclosures, people losing their homes, and do you know today, I received an e-mail where in Michigan, I believe Macomb County, not too far from Detroit, there's a Republican leader suggesting that if your home was foreclosed on, you can't vote?
DOBBS: Oh great. That's brilliant.
FLANNIGAN: And as incredible on a local basis. I mean we literally in Cook County have a sanctuary county in Cook County. We have a de facto sanctuary state in the state of Illinois and no one has addressed this issue. The mainstream media won't touch it. We watched eight days of political conventions, eight days. Did you hear this issue mentioned one time in those eight days, a single time?
DOBBS: Fred, that's why we're here.
FLANNIGAN: Absolutely.
DOBBS: It's one of the reasons we're focusing on these issues. And I happen to agree with you. Until people understand that these two political parties are simply opposite wings of the same bird, we're in a lot of trouble in this country because these two parties are selling out to the highest bidder. And I'll say this for them, Roger, they're not going cheaply. About $3 billion a year are being spent in this town to crowd out the American people and deny them a voice and representation here.
HEDGECOCK: That's exactly right, Lou, and I think what the only thing we can do is we the people is to do what we did to the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill, is whoever is in office, it doesn't matter. What we've got to do is say we the people are not going to put up with those kinds of invasions. We're not going to put up with the social costs. We're not going to put up with the community costs and the crime rates. We are going to demand that this government do what it should do. And that is constitutionally do, and that is protect our borders, our sovereignty, and our jobs.
MADISON: And you know, we all may not agree on everything. I mean, the two of us may have disagreements on certain things
DOBBS: Right.
MADISON: But the one thing that we all agree on, it's funny, labor, Republicans, Democrats, big business, Chamber of Commerce are all in the same pie for this amnesty. And here's the reason why. They want the lowest wages they can find at our expense.
FLANNIGAN: This is a single issue, the single political issue that cuts across every demographic in the country. And we continue to be ignored by the national leadership.
DOBBS: And I think we all sense something is happening. There's a change of attitude on the part of the American people. They're awakening to a new reality here, a reality - well, the awakening is new, the reality has unfortunately been with us for a long time. Fred, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Thank you Joe.
MADISON: Thank you.
DOBBS: Roger, thank you and thank you for putting all of this together. You're to be commended and are commended from all of us. Thanks, Roger Hedgecock. Thank you, Fred Flannigan, Joe Madison.
And later in the broadcast, we'll hear from three of the country's leading political analysts. Stay with us. We continue in one moment.
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DOBBS: I'm joined now by three leading authorities on education to discuss solutions to this nation's education crisis. Yes, there are solutions. They're just not being acted upon nationally.
Christopher Swanson is the research director at "Education Week," the director of Editorial Projects and Education Research Center. Great to have you with us. And Susan Neuman, former U.S. assistant secretary for elementary and secondary education under President Bush, also an architect of the "No Child Left Behind" program. And Professor Pedro Noguera, from the Steinhart School of Education at New York University. Great to have you with us.
Let's begin first with the fact that as we talk about "no child left behind," as we talk about the crisis in our country, and one in which both black and Hispanic students are dropping out of high school at a rate of about 50 percent. How in the world has there not been an urgent, urgent, critical response by the federal government, by state governments and the entire education committee to what is a disaster in the making for so many of our students?
SUSAN NEUMAN, FMR. ASST. SECY. FOR EDUCATION: Well, clearly "No Child Left Behind" was designed to address that issue. And I think we've learned a lot of lessons. One of the issues we've learned is accountability is incredibly important. But one of the things that we've not recognized well enough is that we need to teach more than basic skills. Our curriculum is too low level for many of our children. We need to up the ante and make school more interesting for more children.
I think the other lesson we've learned is you can't blame teachers and then expect them to teach and teach well. We've got to get the red tape out of teaching. We've got to allow teachers to do what they do well, which is to interact with their children and we've got to test higher level skills than we have in the past.
DOBBS: Well, we just talked to two principals, Pedro, Sharon Johnson and Truett Abbott, who, I mean, they took two schools that were disasters and turned them around and I don't mean over a 10-year period, no offense to "No Child Left Behind," but they did it right now. That's what every American wants for every kid. We can't continue to leave half of our black students, half of our Hispanic students behind every single year.
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PROF. PEDRO NOGUERA, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: With schools like those two principals lead are showing us is it can be done. The problem is not the kids. Are there school like that? Yes, in Schiller Park, Illinois, Lincoln Middle School, another turnaround school. It's happening across the country. The problem is that we have raised standards, what we expect of schools, but we haven't provided the resources. And there are a lot of schools out there that simply don't have the resources to meet student needs. DOBBS: From each of you, the one thing that schools could do to start delivering quality public education - Pedro.
NOGUERA: The one thing they could do is to find ways to address the whole child, not just focus on preparation for a test, but look at the need for art.
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NOGUERA: Music, theater, athletics, all that makes a well-rounded individual. We have focused so narrowly on test preparation that we have bored kids right out of school.
DOBBS: OK.
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SWANSON: A good education is really the engine of our nation, and it's stalled. Young adults have no more education than older adults. You know, if we really need to graduate students from high school ready for the 21st century, they need to see, while they're in high school, what's their plan look like, I think, especially for children from families that don't have a history of college education, they need help, they need individual plans, they need to have good academy work, they need to see that what they're doing now has implications for the future in how you get from point A to point B to point C.
DOBBS: Susan, you get the last word.
NEUMAN: But, I think one of the things that we look at, as we look at dropout rate and we look at high school, but really the issue is early education. If we could do one thing in our country that makes a difference, it would be to help and get children get involved in early education right at the very beginning.
DOBBS: The question is, which we haven't time to answer, then why in the world haven't we been doing it?
Susan, thank you very much, Susan Neuman we appreciate it. Christopher Swanson, thank you. And Pedro, thank you very much. Pedro Noguera.
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DOBBS: Up next, what's ahead for this presidential campaign? I'll be joined by three of the best political analysts in the country. We'll be back from Freedom High School in South Riding, Virginia.
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DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the best political analysts anywhere, all CNN contributors: Michael Goodwin, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist for the "New York Daily News."
Michael, good to have you here. Robert Zimmerman, Democratic national committeeman, and Barack Obama supporter. And Ed Rollins, Republican strategist, former White House political director and former chairman of the Mike Huckabee campaign.
Gentlemen, thanks for being here.
Let's start with this education crisis first and foremost. Why is it, with a clear crisis in public education that with less than two months to go until November 4, that neither of these candidates have laid out an urgent response to what is clearly a crisis in public education --- Robert?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC NAT'L COMMITTEEMAN: Lou, you raise a very important point. Both senators McCain and Obama have issued their position papers, but they clearly have not made it a critical feature of their campaign, a critical part of their message. And what's most concerning to me is that we know what works, smaller class sizes work, for example. Focusing on vocational education, focusing on expanded educational opportunities, we know it works, the issue is do we have the federal resolve to do it. No Child Left Behind was a great concept, but they just left the money behind to make the program effective.
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DOBBS: And Michael, everyone has met two principals that turned schools around, Pedro Noguera, Chris Swanson, Susan Neuman, all three have been at the forefront in leading reform in public education, yet there is no urgency attached by our political system to what they're recommending and they know what they're talking about.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: I think, one of the reasons, Lou, is it's one of those problems that is so difficult from a federal level that the candidates don't want to wade into it other than with the platitudes. It's just too complicated for the president to talk about the campaign in a way that doesn't cost them votes as well as get them votes, and so they tend to stay away. We've talked about other subjects like that too: the deficit, the debt, the entitlement spending, anything difficult, the candidates, it doesn't lend itself to an easy sound bite, the candidates tend to shy away from it.
DOBBS: Do you agree, Ed?
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, very much so. First of all, we're very much in a, and whether we should be or shouldn't be, in a poll-driven environment when it comes to campaigns. And the over arching theme for a long time was the war and obviously it's not quite as prevalent, even though it's still very significant, and then it moves to the economy. The economy is the No. 1 problem in America today and people really want answers on that.
Education, which is very critical, short term and long term, and the federal role is very defined, but should do more, but it's not something the candidates are going to talk about the rest of the way.
DOBBS: I think it's unimaginable that these candidates would not be talking about what is devastating for half of the students who are Hispanic, who are black, who are dropping out of school. It's unacceptable. It is not something that we shouldn't, in the national media, permit them to avoid or to ignore. But then, of course, we, first, in the national media have to avoid ignoring the subject ourselves, wouldn't we?
We're going to be back with our panel, here, in just a moment as our Independent convention continues. The Independent perspective tonight from Freedom High School.
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DOBBS: We're back with our panel, Michael Goodwin, Robert Zimmerman and Ed Rollins. You were about to respond to Mr. Rollins' statements about Governor Palin.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN: Let me just point out that I have great respect for Mike Goodwin and Ed Rollins. I just want to educate them a little bit, periodically. And the point -
DOBBS: That was nasty.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": That sounds like a long- winded answer.
ZIMMERMAN: I'll be very brief. Very simply...
DOBBS: You have 10 seconds.
ZIMMERMAN: OK, thank you. Very simply, the good news for the McCain campaign is that every time Sarah Palin can dominate the news cycle, and keep the focus away from Barack Obama and John McCain, that's a good day for John McCain.
DOBBS: Then why is Barack Obama and Joe Biden, why are they attacking Sarah Palin? Because all it does is feed into precisely that.
ZIMMERMAN: That's why they've got to reshift the focus on the presidential race between - on the issues that divide them. The point is, the more we see of Sarah Palin, the more she's like any other politicians, supporting earmarks, hiring lobbyists, supporting that bridge for nowhere, the fact, the record speaks.
DOBBS: Michael Goodwin?
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GOODWIN: My prediction, Lou, coming down the stretch is that we have not heard the last of talk of Hillary Clinton. Somehow working her way back onto the ticket.
DOBBS: Really?
GOODWIN: I believe that Joe Biden is going to find that Sarah Palin just has turned this race so far away from the Democrats that Biden is going to look increasingly inadequate. DOBBS: Well, we've got until - I guess, then we'll know on October 3 about that, right?
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: No vice president's choice in history has ever turned a race around like this one has and Governor Palin, while Barack Obama has been running for president for the last two years instead of voting on the Senate, she's been making the tough decisions the government has to be make and I think people see that. I think at the end of the day, this is now a sprint. It's been a marathon, it's now a sprint, either side could win, but I think that McCain's going to win.
DOBBS: OK.
GOODWIN: Yes, right now, McCain's has clearly got the momentum.
ZIMMERMAN: Let's wait for the debates. This election is just beginning and as long as we can keep the focus on will do fine.
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DOBBS: Robert Zimmerman, thank you very much, Michael Goodwin, Ed Rollins. Thank you all. I'd still like to recommend that both candidates come up with an urgent plan to remedy public education in this country.
Thank you gentlemen, I appreciate it.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. From all of us here, we want to say good night from the home of the freedom people.
