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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Showdown Over Economy on Presidential Campaign Trail; Victory for Opponents of Cheaper Tuition for Illegals
Aired September 16, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Thanks, Wolf.
Tonight, a showdown on the presidential campaign trail; the issue -- our economy. Both candidates seeking political advantage from our financial crisis, but what about the working men and women and their families who make this country work?
And tonight, a major victory for opponents of policies giving cheaper tuition to illegal aliens, preferential treatment denied to American citizens.
And tonight, our automobile industry is fighting back. General Motors today unveiling a potentially world leading electric car, the Volt. We'll have that report.
And among my guests tonight, best-selling author Brad Meltzer, author of the new novel "The Book of Lies."
We'll have all that, all the day's news, and much more with an independent perspective, straight ahead here tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT;" news, debate and opinion for Tuesday, September 16th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Senators McCain and Obama today hammering each other's economic policies as our financial crisis intensified. Senator McCain called for a top-level commission to investigate the Wall Street crisis. Obama said McCain is passing the buck. Neither candidate presenting any new ideas on what matters most to the American people, that is, how to pay for the high prices of basic goods, such as gasoline, food, and clothing.
We have extensive coverage here tonight, and we begin with Ed Henry reporting on the McCain campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Reunited, and it feels so good. John McCain back on the trail with Sarah Palin who draws much larger and louder crowds than he does solo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next president of the United States, John McCain. HENRY: they enter to the strains of "Rocky" and immediately came out swinging over the economy.
GOV. SARAH PALIN, (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We also need serious reform on Wall Street and John McCain is the guy who will get it done.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We're going to put an end to the reckless conduct, corruption, and unbridled greed that have caused a crisis on Wall Street and America. We're going to put a stop to it.
HENRY: Here on the road, they're running as outsiders.
PALIN: With your vote, we're going to Washington, D.C., to shake things up.
HENRY: But McCain's latest solution to fix the economy comes straight from inside the Beltway; appoint a Blue-Ribbon Panel in Washington to probe Wall Street.
MCCAIN: We have to assure every American that their deposit in a bank is safe. We have to have a 9/11 commission. And we have to fix this alphabet soup of regulatory agencies that's left over from the 1930s.
HENRY: In Colorado, Barack Obama jumped all over that idea.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book -- you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem. Now here's the thing, this isn't 9/11. We know how we got into this mess. What we need now is leadership that gets us out.
Reporter: Obama senses an opportunity to seize the momentum back by touting the fact his tax cuts would put more money in the pockets of middle class voters. But McCain and Palin note Obama also wants to raise taxes on the wealthy, which could further damage an already teetering economy.
PALIN: His tax plans really would kill jobs and hurt small businesses and make even today's bad economy look like the good old days.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Now, here at that rally in Ohio, John McCain never mentioned the commission idea, a sign he realizes is not really a winning line here outside the Washington Beltway. Instead, he focused more on beating up on Wall Street for hurting people on Main Street because of what he called games that were going on Wall Street.
And so, I think that's a clear sign that his campaign realizes it's a much better strategy to talk about that instead of Washington commissions -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Ed Henry.
Well, the stock market today recovered some lost ground after yesterday's huge sell-off and the market stabilized. The Dow Jones Industrials gaining just over 140 points, even though the Federal Reserve today left key interest rates unchanged.
The stock market lifted by reports that the federal government is helping the troubled insurance giant AIG find new loans so that it can stay in business. Sources tonight also telling CNN the British bank Barclays will be buying part of the bankrupt investment firm Lehman Brothers.
Meanwhile, crude oil prices plummeted again, closing just above $91 a barrel. Crude oil prices have plunged about $55 a barrel since hitting a record high in July, when President Bush lifted the executive ban on offshore oil drilling.
Senator Obama today accused Senator McCain of failing to offer concrete plans to tackle our economic crisis. Obama's saying McCain has no idea how to help working men and women and their families. Obama today striking something of a populist tone apparently trying to lift his sour poll ratings.
Candy Crowley with the Obama campaign tonight in Denver, Colorado.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Barack Obama sees an opening in the crisis on Wall Street, a way to connect on Main Street and disconnect John McCain.
OBAMA: We are in the most serious financial crisis in generations. Yet, Senator McCain stood up yesterday and said that the fundamentals of the economy are strong.
CROWLEY: McCain later said he was talking about American workers and American products. But it is the Obama campaign's favorite line now, worth repeating on the ground and in the air.
MCCAIN: -- our economy, I think, still, the fundamentals of our economy are strong. The fundamentals of our economy are strong. The fundamentals of our economy are strong.
CROWLEY: In Golden, Colorado, a swing area of the sort key to electoral victory, Obama offered what he called six principles to prevent a Wall Street crisis in the future, which basically boiled down to better oversight and increased regulation of financial markets, mortgage brokers, and banks.
McCain has also called for something similar, but Obama questioned that commitment and used it as another opportunity to paint McCain as a tool of big business and lobbyists.
OBAMA: And referred to himself as "fundamentally a deregulator." This is what happens when you confuse the free market with a free license to let special interests take whatever they get. However they can get it.
CROWLEY: The inspirational rhetoric is all but gone now. Less talk about hope, more about fear around the kitchen table, all designed to improve Obama's fortunes among working class, white voters, particularly women. It is an attempt to show the most reluctant of voting blocks that he understands where they live.
OBAMA: This is a major threat to our economy and its ability to create good paying jobs and help working Americans pay their bills, to help Americans save for their futures and make their mortgage payments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: From Golden, Colorado, Obama went straight to Hollywood, California, where he will be at a couple of fund-raisers tonight for his own campaign and for the Democratic Party; one of those fund-raisers, Lou, $28,500 a head.
That was too good for John McCain to pass up. He told one crowd he'd rather be talking to working class men and women in Ohio -- Lou?
DOBBS: That is a little hard to square off, isn't it, $28,500 a plate, versus the populist message that both of these candidates, by the way, have discovered, Candy. I think that's fascinating that the people are starting to get some notice from both candidates.
CROWLEY: Well, there is nothing like a crisis on Wall Street to kind of focus the mind and to have people, have them both come out with plans, saying here's what I would do. It also gave Obama, by the way, a chance to kind of go back and retread over some of his things, his tax cuts, education plan, that kind of thing.
They are trying very hard to focus this on, as I said, the nuts and bolts and what he would do with not just the economy, but other things that he believes people are talking about and worried about in their homes.
DOBBS: By the way, another day's gone by without a press availability on the part of either of these candidates, hasn't it?
CROWLEY: Put up another day, you're right.
DOBBS: We're doing just that. This broadcast is keeping track of just how often these populist candidates now are actually wanting to be in contact with the people and providing greater access to the news craft.
Thanks, Candy, appreciate it. I'm surprised. I thought they would embrace all of you journalists out there on the campaign trail; surprise, surprise.
CROWLEY: Not usually, no.
DOBBS: All right, thank you. Both presidential candidates spreading their messages, mostly unchallenged at tightly controlled events. Their appearances are scripted, they're read from teleprompters, access is limited, usually, and they leave the candidates almost inaccessible to our reporters. With less than 50 days to go until the election.
Senator McCain last held a news conference on august 13th, 34 days ago. And senator Obama held one earlier this month on September 4th. That's 12 days ago, during the Republican convention.
News conferences are the opportunity for the American people to hear the candidates answer tough questions from journalists on the issues. These candidates have, I think you would agree, a clear responsibility to make themselves available to the American people to answer questions and address the issues. Right now they don't look like they're the most courageous of leaders between which we might be choosing.
The House of Representatives tonight is on the brink of voting to end the congressional ban on some offshore oil drilling. This, of course, is a stunning reversal for the Democratically-led Congress and its leaders, two months after President Bush lifted the executive ban on offshore oil drilling. It's a reversal, by the way, that I predicted back in July.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: It looks like we're going to see, I would guess -- and I will put forward, I will hazard a political forecast -- we will see Congress and Senator Obama reverse themselves on this issue very quickly.
I will predict right now, your party, your presidential candidate, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are going to have to change their position on this immediately because American working men and women and their families are getting murdered by this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, the Democrats living up to my forecast. It comes after repeated polls showing an overwhelming majority of Americans now support offshore oil drilling and won't put up with ideological nonsense, but Republicans say the Democrats' legislation on drilling doesn't go far enough. They're calling this legislation a hoax.
Brianna Keilar has our report from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An about-face for Democrats who are now pushing an energy plan that includes offshore oil drilling.
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) HOUSE SPEAKER: The energy bill, again, puts us onto that path of independence by having a comprehensive legislation. KEILAR: That's far different from what House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said two months ago when asked if she'd allow a vote on drilling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, the answer is --
PELOSI: No. I have no plans to do so.
KEILAR: Two weeks later, congress adjourned for its summer break without passing any Energy Bill. Some house Republicans stayed behind to protest, pressuring Democrats as poll after poll showed a growing majority of Americans favored lifting the congressional ban on offshore oil drilling.
In early August, Barack Obama shifted away from his staunch opposition to drilling.
OBAMA: I'm willing to consider it if it's necessary to actually pass a comprehensive plan.
KEILAR: Days later, Speaker Pelosi also reversed her decision.
PELOSI: We can have a vote on that, but it has to be part of something that says we want to bring immediate relief to the public and not just a hoax on them.
KEILAR: The Democrats' proposal would let oil companies drill 100 miles or more off the Atlantic and Pacific Coast. If states give the go ahead, oil rigs could come as close as 50 miles.
Democrats would give tax incentives for renewable energy development. They would pay for those tax breaks by increasing taxes on oil companies. Republicans say the Democrats' drilling plan isn't really a compromise at all.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R) MINORITY LEADER: A bill that no one has read, written in the dark of night, that won't do a damn thing about American energy.
KEILAR: Republicans want fewer limitations on where oil companies can drill. They oppose higher taxes on oil companies and say states should get royalties from the new drilling, that without them, there's no incentive to allow drilling closer to their coasts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: So, there is this reversal by Democrats. But still, the rancor between the two parties continues here on Capitol Hill, and it's very possible that Congress will not come to an agreement on energy legislation. It may not be any closer to coming to that agreement than they were a month or two ago -- Lou.
DOBBS: Okay, Brianna. At least as we approach the recess there, the adjournment, they're at least talking about it and not so much of that nonsensical sort of macho, we're going to save the planet stuff that we heard from the Speaker of the House not so long ago. Brianna, thank you very much. Brianna Keilar.
Well, coming up here next, new evidence the federal government is utterly failing to protect American consumers from dangerous products.
Also, a victory for common sense and the American people in the legal battle to stop illegal aliens from receiving privileges being denied American citizens.
And the American automobile industry showing it is still competitive and now innovative.
We'll have that story and a great deal more. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Six men, including an illegal alien, have been indicted in the execution-style murders of three college students in Newark, New Jersey more than a year ago. The suspects who have links to the violent MS-13 Street gang are accused of killing the students in a school yard last August.
The suspected ringleader, Jose Carranza (ph), is a criminal illegal alien who was free on bond at the time of those murders. Newark sanctuary policies protect illegal aliens, even those charged with serious crimes.
Well, Open Borders pro-amnesty groups are once again suing the city of Farmers Branch, Texas, over its latest efforts to crack down on illegal immigration. The Mexican-American legal defense and educational fund, MALDEF, and the ACLU are fighting the city's efforts to stop landlords from renting to illegal aliens.
This is just the latest in what has become a string of lawsuits filed over the city's fight against the impact of illegal immigration. A judge has temporarily blocked the city's ordinance, requiring renters be legal citizens.
A major legal victory tonight in the battle to stop illegal aliens from receiving privileges denied to American citizens. A state court has ruled that California violated federal law by charging illegal aliens less to attend college than American citizens from outside the state.
Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Since 2002, illegal aliens attending state colleges in California have been allowed to pay lower tuition rates than U.S. citizens from other states. In-state resident tuition can save a student $17,000 a year at the prestigious university of California schools, and from $2,000 to $10,000 at community colleges and Cal State schools. In 2005, a group of out-of-state citizen students filed a suit challenging the law, but it was dismissed. They appealed, and Monday, a state appellate court reinstated their case.
The justices ruled unanimously that California is violating federal law by offering a benefit to illegal aliens not available to all American citizens.
KRIS KOBACH, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: There are approximately 26,000 illegal aliens who are currently receiving a taxpayer subsidy in the form of in-state tuition in California. That is likely to stop now that this decision has been rendered.
On the other hand, though, there are more than 80,000 U.S. citizens who are paying out-of-state tuition at California universities, and they're going to be helped by this decision, because this decision says that they have a right under federal law to be treated no worse than an illegal alien.
WIAN: In a strongly-worded opinion, the court rejected two technical arguments by the California college system. First, that in- state tuition is not a benefit within the meaning of the federal law. The justices called that "an illogical assumption." The state also argued that reduced tuition for illegal aliens is contingent upon attending high school in California for three years, not on residency. The justices said "that makes no sense."
In summary, the court ruled California's law "thwarts the will of Congress." The University of California said in a statement it is disappointed "that the Court of Appeal has reversed the trial court's dismissal of this challenge. "We are concerned that the decision could have an adverse impact on thousands of students."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Attorneys for the state colleges have not said if they will appeal to the state Supreme Court or fight the lawsuit in the lower court. Nine other states offer in-state tuition to illegal aliens, and their plans could be affected by the decision because it's the first time an appellate court has ruled on the issue -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, it's fascinating, the language. Illogical, and "makes no sense," in reference to the state's position here. That sounds rather straightforward and emphatic.
WIAN: You don't often hear an appellate court come out with such plainspoken, strong language, saying that the state is wrong in the way it's been applying this law -- Lou.
DOBBS: Especially, if I may, in the state of California, where we're so used to the nonsense spewing out of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals; a legendarily liberal and illogical court, if there ever were one.
Casey, thank you very much, Casey Wian.
That's just my opinion.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you believe colleges and universities should charge illegal aliens less to attend their institutions than U.S. citizens from other states? Yes or no? We'd like to hear what you think about this.
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here upcoming.
Once again, the FDA failing to do its job, and it is -- it's a mess. It claims an everyday product is safe despite new evidence to the contrary, medical evidence, and the opinion of other, other nations. We'll have that report on what in the world is the FDA doing.
And could this very car be the savior of the American automobile industry? Well, General Motors is banking on it on its 100th anniversary. We'll have that report.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, there is new hope for our battered automobile industry in this country. Innovation it turns out is alive and well after all.
General Motors rolling out an electric car that's going to be produced by Chevrolet. It's the Chevrolet Volt. The volt was designed in the United States. It will likely be built at a plant near General Motors' headquarters in Detroit.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Coming to GM's showrooms in the fall of 2010, the Chevy Volt. No longer a concept, now a production model; a car that will go 0 to 60 in nine seconds, top out at 100 miles an hour.
The all-electric car represents a giant leap in automotive technology. A car that can be plugged into any standard electrical outlet, it offers the promise of reduced dependency on foreign oil, and it will be American made.
JOHN LAUCKNER, GENERAL MOTORS: We're designing this vehicle in the United States, doing all of the development work, including the work on the battery. It will be manufactured most probably at a plant very close here, called Detroit Hamtramic.
TUCKER: That plant currently employs 1,900 workers. The addition of the Volt to that plant is expected to add to the payroll, but GM won't say how many.
Along with the new jobs comes new investment, an investment the company will only describe as "in the hundreds of millions of dollars." The news, understandably, is being welcomed by advocates of American manufacturing.
JOHN COLM, WIRE-NET: Sort of belies the story that manufacturing in the United States is dead, which is far from the case. Manufacturing is evolving. The auto industry is evolving. It's changing.
TUCKER: Michigan's Governor, Jennifer Granholm, is also excited. She welcomes the jobs in a state where manufacturing has been crushed in recent years. But it's not just about the jobs. The governor says, "not only will the Volt mean jobs for Michigan workers, our strategy is to be the advanced battery capital of the world."
The Volt will go 40 miles on a charge before a gasoline engine kicks in and powers a generator to generate more electricity, giving the volt a range of several hundred miles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And we should also mention that the investment in American plants is not GM's first such announcement this year. Lou, it's already investing more than $350 million at its Lordstown plant -- its plant in Lordstown, Ohio, and they added an extra shift there; that's where they are making the Chevy Cobalt and where they will be making the Chevy Cruise.
DOBBS: Both of those are higher mileage cars as well. The Volt -- I must say, they must have chosen this day because it's the 100th anniversary of General Motors, but I mean, it's so nice to see innovation here.
TUCKER: It is.
DOBBS: I mean, I'm excited about this.
TUCKER: I'm excited about it, too, Lou. And it's American innovation, it's American design, it's American development. It's going to be an American-made car, and I think that's fantastic.
DOBBS: And how American is Chevy, huh?
All right. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Bill Tucker.
Well, coming up next here, best-selling author Brad Meltzer. You talk about American, he's the author of the new book "The Book of Lies." It's all about truth, justice, and the American way. And he'll be joining us here.
Senators McCain and Obama won't be joining me, but they're talking tough about Wall Street, but are they making any sense? Three of my favorite radio talk show hosts join me here.
And troubling evidence that the FDA is, well, just screwing up again and saying the heck with American consumers. We'll have a special report. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Welcome back.
The Food and Drug Administration tonight saying it will block imports of more than 30 generic drugs manufactured by the Indian drug maker Ranbaxi. The FDA says it will block those imports from two factories because of what it calls poor quality control. Officials, however, say consumers should not stop using any of these drugs.
Are you ready to get confused? We are talking about the FDA. The FDA says it has no evidence that any of the Ranbaxi drugs are defective, but they are continuing to monitor the situation.
The drugs include -- are you ready? Loratadine. It's a common allergy treatment. And we've got these up on the screen for you so that you can take appropriate action; a generic form of the antibiotic drug Cipro, and the cholesterol drug Simvastatin. You can find a complete list of these drugs on our website. Again, it's Loratadine, Ciprofloxacin and Simvastatin. Go to LouDobbs.com for the full list.
The FDA tonight is also trying to reassure consumers once again that the chemical Bisphenol-A is safe, or BPA, despite new evidence to the contrary. A brand new research study released today finds that BPA may pose not only a risk of heart disease, but also diabetes. And in spite of this new evidence, the FDA still says what? BPA is safe.
Louise Schiavone has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are the plastics we use for infancy for liquids and foods poisoning us? A new high-profile study offers damping new evidence about Bisphenol-A.
FREDERICK S. VOM SAAL, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI: These people had increased probability of diabetes, heart disease, including heart attack.
SCHIAVONE: The study of 1,500 adults was just released in the journal of the American medical association, and it was topic a as a food and drug administration panel met to review the science surrounding Bisphenol-A or BPA. Said government scientists --
MICHELLE TWAROSKI, FOOD & DRUG ADMINISTRATION: FDA has considered the available data and determined that the margin of safety for Bisphenol-A exposure in all populations is adequate and the continued use of Bisphenol-A in the manufacture of food contact substance is concluded to be safe.
SCHIAVONE: This summer, FDA Commissioner Andrew Von Eschenbach offered his take on the FDA website.
ANDREW VON ESCHENBACH, FDA COMMISSIONER: The science FDA has reviewed does not justify recommending that anyone discontinue using these products.
SCHIAVONE: Industry defenders say the studies critical of BPA are flawed and they told the FDA panel --
JOHN VAN MILLER, BPA PRODUCERS: We agree with FDA's draft assessment. FDA's approach was thorough, objective, transparent, and strongly supported by scientific data.
JOHN ROST, N. AMER. METAL PACKAGING ALLIANCE: No other food packaging performs as well in situations such as disaster relief, homeland security, or famine relief.
SCHIAVONE: But public interest groups testified there was ample reason to suspect BPA. Most vulnerable, say critics, those without a choice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fetus and the newborn is considered to be at greatest harm.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lou, FDA scientists agree with the authors of this latest study that the issue does merit more review, even as studies continue to emerge signaling BPA's potential as a factor in a wide array of illnesses.
Lou?
DOBBS: Well, for particularly children at such risk, apparently, why in the world wouldn't the FDA at least say, you know, at least, you know, let's stop here and study this and find out what's going on? Because one thing the American consumer has learned certainly over these years is when the FDA is in a conflict with the industry and their lobbyists, it is nearly every time the American consumer who loses.
SCHIAVONE: That's exactly right. And so, today at this hearing, we hear from one of the FDA scientists that, well, if you are concerned, you should look for -- and I'm going to show you this, because I know you've seen about a million of these bottles. This is a bottle that is a plastic bottle, a common plastic drinking bottle. If you see the number seven at the bottom of this bottle, a bottle like this, then you should be concerned, because that means there is a high level of BPA in there. But if you see one of these, you know, plastic water bottles, if you go to a machine where you get one of these bottles, there will usually be a one there, and that's not so bad. But we have the FDA saying look out for the number seven, but BPA isn't a problem. Don't heap liquids in these plastic containers, but BPA isn't a problem. There is really a mixed message here.
DOBBS: Yeah, it's a mixed message. It's an idiotically run administration/agency. This is unconscionable, and again, we've had some considerable assertion of congressional oversight. But the fact is, Canada has banned BPA, has it not?
SCHIAVONE: That's right. There are a lot of states that are looking at this.
DOBBS: Right.
SCHIAVONE: There are 13 states that are looking at banning BPA, so it's really a concern.
DOBBS: Well, I don't understand why an agency charged with the safety of the American consumer, the American public, would even hesitate to say, until we know more, we're not moving in this direction, particularly when you're talking about the journal of American medicine and other authoritative sources saying, stop, this is a huge issue. Louise, thank you very much, Louise Schiavone, we appreciate it. As always, good job.
Up next, a stunning, new suspense novel, also offering new evidence of how wide open our ports are. Brad Meltzer, author of "Book of Lies" joins me.
And access denied. Why the presidential candidates and their campaigns -- shh, we don't want you to know this, but they are tightly controlled, tightly scripted, and they're not so interested in talking with journalists or getting too near the broad public. I'll be talking to three of the most popular radio talk show hosts in the country next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Author Brad Meltzer is known for the extensive research he does for all of his best-selling novels. While researching his latest book, brad uncovered serious flaws in border and port security in this country, among other things. His new thriller is called "The Book of Lies," and guess what? It's at the top of the "Washington Post" best-seller list, it's number two on "The New York Times" best- seller list, and Brad, great to have you with us. Congratulations on yet another tremendous success.
BRAD MELTZER, AUTHOR, "THE BOOK OF LIES": Well, thanks, Lou. Always good to see you.
DOBBS: The idea that you could go after, well, the Superman story, and psychoanalyze it, bring in Cain and Abel. I mean, the degree to which your book is a canvas is truly remarkable, but tell us about going after, if you will, the creation of Superman, the true story behind it.
MELTZER: Sure. It started, I was at a book signing two years ago, and a woman stands up at event and says "I know more about Superman than you'll ever know," and I think to myself, lady, there's no way you ever do. And she's like, no, I do, because Jerry Siegel, who created Superman, is my uncle. And she invites me into the family and tells me this story about this 50-year-old unsolved murder that almost nobody knows about, because in the 50 years of interview when they ask Jerry Siegel, how'd you get the idea for Superman, he never says, "My father died in a robbery." And that's why the world got Superman, not because America's the greatest country on earth, but because a little boy lost his father. And I just was fascinated with that little detail and just decided I'm going to see if I can actually solve this crime and turn it into a mystery and a thriller.
DOBBS: A mystery and a thriller and a remarkable story. And you -- and I should point out, when you were saying to the Siegel family, you were thinking you would know more, I should point out that Brad is an accomplished, successful, best-selling comic book author and has been for years and years, so he has some reason to think he knows something about Superman and everything about comic books. But the idea of bringing in Cain and Abel and that story as well.
MELTZER: Yeah. You know, a friend of mine said to me, you know the story of Adam and Eve and the apple? And I said, of course. He said it's interesting, because the word apple doesn't appear in the bible. It was actually -- it says fig or fruit. And the word apple was added by the Greeks when they translated into Greek, because apples were a sign of destruction. Then he said to me, how did Cain kill Abel, what was the murder weapon he used? I said I know that one, that's a rock. And he said where does it say that in the bible? If you look, the bible story is silent about it. It doesn't tell you. 16 lines is the Cain and Abel story, one of the shortest, but the detail remains anonymous. So, Cain and Abel, some say, was killed with a rock. Shakespeare said it was the jaw bone of an animal. Some say that Cain bit Abel's throat and that's where we get vampires from.
And again, I just started researching this, and my favorite story I found, Lou, is I went back and I found -- if you look at any bible today, open it up, it will trend it a little differently, but it will say that Cain looks at god and says "My punishment is too great to bear," and that's why we hate Cain. He's like I killed my brother, why are you hurting me? But if you look at older versions, you can easily translate that section as "My sin is too great to forgive," and just maybe Cain isn't the bad guy about the story and this is a story about god's level of forgiveness, not necessarily about a brother killing another brother.
DOBBS: Well, I have to say, your research, you continue to always surprise. You bring all sorts of delightful research to all of your books as well as a great story, a great story, greatly told. So anyway, brad, it's great to have you with us. I do want to point out that you also dedicated the book to your mother.
MELTZER: Yeah.
DOBBS: And I found that very moving, and I should say, I knew your mother. A wonderful lady. Did she get a chance to read the book before she died?
MELTZER: Yeah, no, you know, I started "The Book of Lies" when my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. I finished it and she finished reading it just as she passed away. And should that really matter? No, but it mattered to me. It always did. It mattered that she saw the dedication was to her and she's throughout this book. You know her well enough to know that.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Terry Meltzer, a wonderful lady with a wonderful family with whom she is immensely proud and appropriately so. Brad, thank you very much. All the best with your new book. You've got to get that thing to number one on "The New York Times" best-seller.
MELTZER: Trust me, my mom, she's pulling for me, I know that. She'll always say to me, Brad, I've got to be honest with you, your new book, I'm your mother, but I've got say it, that's the greatest book of all time. And that was the best.
DOBBS: We will exceed and make it a unanimous viewpoint. Brad, thanks a lot, Brad Meltzer.
MELTZER: Thanks Lou.
DOBBS: The book, it's terrific. We recommend it, because you're my guest.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. The question tonight is do you believe colleges and universities should charge illegal aliens less to attend their institutions than U.S. citizens from other states, yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have results upcoming.
And a reminder to please join me on the radio Monday through Friday for "The Lou Dobbs Show." Tomorrow, my guests will include Brett Stevens, "Wall Street Journal" columnist. He says Governor Sarah Palin has the credentials to be the next vice president of the United States. And William A. Fleckenstein, he's the author of "Greenspan's Bubble," the age of ignorance at the Federal Reserve -- I can't remember what we're going to talk about, but please join us anyway. Go to loudobbsradio.com for local listings in your area for "The Lou Dobbs Show." Please join us.
Up next, a showdown on the presidential campaign trail, this time over the economy, notably missing from the candidates' comments and viewpoints, new ideas about how to help this country's middle class. I'll be joined by three of the most popular radio talk show hosts in the country, next. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Well, breaking news now on our financial crisis. Published reports now saying the Federal Reserve is about to take an 80 percent stake in the insurance company AIG. It's the country's largest insurance company. In return for an $85 billion federal loan. Reports say the Federal Reserve could step in after a Wall Street effort to save AIG from collapse has failed. Those reports saying the Federal Reserve is considering an $85 billion rescue plan for AIG and if so, it would be absolutely unprecedented. We will have details as soon as we learn more on that breaking story.
Well joining me now, three of the country's top radio talk show hosts; in Chicago, Steve Cochran, WGN; Steve, great to see you; in Washington, D.C., Chris Plante, WMAL, Chris, good to see you and in Kansas City, Chris Stigall of KCMO; good to have you back, Chris.
Well let's start with this one if I may, your reaction, first Steve let's go to you. What do you think - I mean if this turns out to be the case, the federal government is effectively nationalizing AIG.
STEVE COCHRAN, WGN IN CHICAGO: I'm sorry Lou. Was that for me?
DOBBS: Yes.
COCHRAN: I'm sorry. I didn't hear the introduction. You are exactly right. You know honestly I have mixed feelings about it because we backed ourselves into a corner on Wall Street in more than one case now. We can't have the insurance business such as it is collapse. We also can't have CEOs manage failed companies into get this position and get millions of dollars to go away. It's a mess. It's a giant cluster. Essentially nationalize the biggest insurance holder in the country. It's one of these.
DOBBS: Is that what it is, Chris?
COCHRAN: It's one of these.
CHRIS PLANTE, WMAL IN WASHINGTON: If it comes to pass, it's another terrible precedent. All of this began with a bad idea during the Clinton years that we needed to be more inclusive and low income people who couldn't get into the housing market needed to get into the housing market. So we changed the rules, and now we're bearing the fruit of that.
DOBBS: And we also had, just to keep this bipartisan, the ownership society under this administration, Chris.
CHRIS STIGALL, KCMO IN KANSAS CITY: This is something I would point out to you, though, why don't we get this criticism about the idea of nationalizing our health care? We get wound up about insurance and home lending, but, boy, when we talk about nationalizing health care, everybody's for it, aren't they?
DOBBS: That's a great point, Chris. The fact of the matter is, at this rate, we may be nationalizing just about everything. I just cannot imagine where there is a limit once we have undertaken these bailouts. The people who need the you, I don't want to be lectured by Barack Obama, who this very evening is about to raise $9 million at a $28,500 a plate fund-raiser with Barbra Streisand tonight. Tell me we have a woeful economy as he's raising $9 million tonight.
PLANTE: The truth is Lou that this is not so much a failure of the market as it is a failure of government meddling in the market which has been going on for about 15 years and again it does go back to the Clinton administration's idea which is a noble idea that we need to be more inclusive, that low income families need to get into the American dream and be able to get mortgages and buy houses and the whole thing has kind of blown up in our faces. You know they put Franklin Raines, a Clinton administration crony in charge of Fannie Mae. He collected $100 million in pay in bonuses. He laid the track for this. This house of cards has been built by government regulation and building down the regulation so that we could be more inclusive in the housing market and now this thing has blown up in our faces and we see the people on Capital Hill who made this happen pointing the finger and passing the buck and blaming everybody else but in the final analysis.
STIGALL: Well that's how politics is.
DOBBS: Let me do this. Let's listen to Senator Obama today going after Senator McCain on his economic views. Here is Senator Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are in the most serious financial crisis in generations yet Senator McCain stood up yesterday and said that the fundamentals of the economy are strong and he tried to explain himself again this morning by saying that what he meant to say was that the American workers are strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: You know are we getting to the point here when both parties, in my judgment, are absolutely responsible for the mess on Wall Street, they share these kind of policies of both the previous administration, this administration in particular I may say and the ridiculous no, do nothing congress, 109th Congress and this do less Congress, 110th.
STIGALL: Lou, I've got to tell you, I don't want to be lectured by Barack Obama who this very evening is about to raise $9 million at a $28,500 a plate fundraiser with Barbra Streisand tonight. Now tell me that in a woeful painful soup line economy you can raise $9 million tonight with Streisand.
PLANTE: Well furthermore, Mr. post partisan Barack Obama has spent his entire speech today attacking John McCain and not offering a way out of this crisis whatsoever. He pointed the finger. He passed the buck. This all goes to the people on Capitol Hill, rules that came about during the Clinton administration with the best of intentions that have blown up in our face.
DOBBS: Chris, it sounds like you're giving -- there's a little eight-year -- almost eight-year missing part of your tape here. The Bush administration has been an absolute joke.
PLANTE: The Bush administration does not get a free pass on this, but hang on a second. These rules were changed under Clinton, and the idea was to get low income people --
STIGALL: This is the problem.
PLANTE: If you get low income people --
COCHRAN: It becomes a broken record.
PLANTE: You want to talk about Obama passing the buck. This is an important point.
DOBBS: Go ahead, Steve. COCHRAN: It's a broken record because he can talk about Clinton. Guess what? He's no longer president. He's not running. Neither one of these candidates has said anything.
PLANTE: Neither is Bush.
COCHRAN: I'll talk my financial information from the banker on deal or no deal because that guy -- listen, let me finish my point.
DOBBS: We'll be back in just a moment with our panel, and at the top of the hour, the ELECTION CENTER with Campbell Brown. Campbell, what's on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, Lou. Tonight we are working on this breaking story. Reports that you've reported that the Federal Reserve is getting ready to bail out insurance giant AIG with an $85 billion loan. We'll have the latest at the top of the hour explaining what it all means to you. Also the candidates talking seriously about how they're going to clean up the mess on wall street. We're putting their promises to our no bias, no bull test. Also digging into promises that Barack Obama and Joe Biden are making in their campaign commercial.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Campbell.
We'll be back with our panel and your thoughts.
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DOBBS: We're back with our panel. There's a lot of finger pointing here. For my money, both parties are absolutely responsible and have been absolutely irresponsible over the course of the last 20 years. Your thought?
PLANTE: I mean, I tell you, John McCain called today for a special commission to look into what happened here, and that would be entirely appropriate. This is a congress that's investigating 400 different things that nobody cares about. This is rather important. But the democrats don't want to investigate it for several reasons. The primary reasons are that Franklin Raines, the former head of Fannie Mae, and Jim Johnson, another chief at Fannie Mae, are both chief economic advisers to the Obama campaign. Furthermore, the head of the banking committee, Christopher Dodd, the democratic senator from Connecticut, is the number one recipient of Fannie Mae money and the number two or number three recipient, depending on how you score, of Fannie Mae money is none other than Barack Obama.
DOBBS: Steve Cochran, your thoughts?
COCHRAN: Lou, I think what we're running into here is the same problem America is running into. The left knows who they're going to vote for. The right knows who they're going to vote for. The vast middle, including me, are still trying to figure it out. We in talk radio make the same mistake because we spend too much time saying the other guy sucks. This is the ultimate job interview, and I'm not impressed with either candidate when they spend all day, as do their supporters, talking about how wrong the other guy is and not saying a word about what they can get done if they do get the gig.
STIGALL: Steve, the only time people lay off the federal government is when the federal government is involved. You've got energy, oil, called up to congress to testify, raked over the coals repeatedly for being successful. Yet when you've got floundering, failing companies like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, not only are they left alone they're bailed out. As Chris rightly pointed out --
DOBBS: Let me say this. The fact of the matter is that this congress has had hearings on a host of issues, including the oil industry. There's no action taken here. Going back to Chris Plante's ideas about the remarks about calling for a 9/11 Commission as Senator McCain has done. Before people pooh-pooh that too much, the fact is the 9/11 Commission performed a very important function.
But commissions, well motivated, well constructed and led, can make immense differences. For example, the 1983 so-called Greenspan Commission, which completely saved the Social Security system 25 years ago.
So I agree with Chris Plante. This business of rejecting it because it's a commission is sort of sophomoric, in my opinion.
PLANTE: And the reason they're rejecting it is because all roads lead back to the Clinton administration, to their cronies at Fannie Mae. And, look, it's not Republicans that were in charge at the Fannie Mae. It's true that the Bush administration doesn't have clean hands on this, but if you look at where this house of cards was built, it was built by the Clinton people and their cronies at Fannie Mae, and all paths lead back to them.
DOBBS: What do you guys think about the idea -- I'm sorry?
STIGALL: The only time government...
COCHRAN: Who of these two guys, of these two guys that are running, who has the better idea? Isn't that what we're supposed to figure out here?
(CROSSTALK)
PLANTE: John McCain today dedicated his time to solutions. Barack Obama dedicated his time today to attacking John McCain in his post-partisan world.
DOBBS: Chris Stigall, you get the last word here, partner.
STIGALL: You just simply cannot have it both ways. It's big, monolithic, evil corporate business or it's government intervention. It's one or the other. They're trying to have it both ways. So to Steve's end, I agree. A pox on both your houses, but you can't have it both ways.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Well, I still think most Americans can hold competing ideas within their minds simultaneously and successfully. I think you can be pro-business and pro-labor at the same time. I think we can have a great capitalist system and also have regulation. I think we've got to come to terms with some realities that are changing rather quickly.
And we thank you all three for being here. Chris, Chris, Steve.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Our poll results tonight -- 97 percent of you do not believe colleges and universities should charge illegal aliens less to attend their institutions than U.S. citizens from other states.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow. "The Election Center" with Campbell Brown begins right now -- Campbell.
