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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Fear of Recession; Race for Congress; Police State; ACORN's Fuzzy Math
Aired October 24, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LISA SYLVESTER, GUEST HOST: Thanks, Wolf. Tonight a steep sell off on Wall Street, rising fears of a severe recession, three of the smartest economic thinkers in this country will give us their assessment.
And tonight, the McCain and Obama campaign pummel each other on economic policy. Does either candidate have any new ideas on how to fix our economy?
And tonight the left wing activist group ACORN faces new charges it manipulated the truth on voter registrations. We'll tell you all about it, all of that, all the day's news and much more straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT; news, debate and opinion for Friday, October 24th. Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Lisa Sylvester.
SYLVESTER: Good evening everybody. Fear and chaos today on Wall Street. Top stocks tumbled again, the Dow losing more than 300 points. The sell off, part of rising concerns that the global economy is on the brink of recession. The Obama and McCain campaigns today intensified their rhetoric on the economy, but both campaigns seem unable or perhaps unwilling to present any new economic policies. We have extensive coverage beginning with Ed Henry in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another sharp sell off on Wall Street is fueling concerns of a deep recession, and turning the final stretch of the presidential race into a pitched battle over whose tax plan can better fix the financial crisis.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Obama assures us that he has a very clear target of just the top five percent of income earners and any time you hear talk of a targeted tax increase, you might want to double check the skill of the marksman.
HENRY: John McCain continues to pounce on Barack Obama's comment to "Joe the Plumber" about spreading the wealth around to charge his policies are socialist.
MCCAIN: Now Senator Obama may say he's trying to soak the rich, but it's the middle class we're going to get through the ringer.
HENRY: While Obama took the day off from campaigning to visit his ailing grandmother in Hawaii, his running mate Joe Biden was in West Virginia, insisting Obama will lower taxes for 95 percent of Americans.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN, (D-DE) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In order to rebuild the middle class in this country we need to do several basic things. We have to start by cutting taxes for working people.
HENRY: Biden also mocked McCain's efforts to distance himself from President Bush.
BIDEN: John McCain is now attacking the Bush budget and Bush fiscal policies, which he voted for, I might add. But, folks, this is as crazy as you know Butch Cassidy's attacking the "Sundance Kid". I mean that's a team.
HENRY: The sparring comes amid signs the Obama/Biden ticket has the upper hand on taxes, reversing a long edge for Republicans. The latest "Washington Post"/ABC tracking poll shows Obama is leading McCain 51 to 43 percent on handling taxes. The same eight-point lead the president had over John Kerry in 2004. A major reason McCain trails in battlegrounds like Colorado.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wore number seven. He's a Hall of Fame quarterback. He's a friend of mine, John Elway.
HENRY: Where he got a pep talk from retired football star John Elway.
JOHN ELWAY, FMR. DENVER BRONCOS QUARTERBACK: Senator, it's the fourth quarter and your game and some pundits I watch on TV are already counting you out, but I know a thing or two about comebacks.
(APPLAUSE)
ELWAY: And I cannot wait until November 4th when you, once again, prove those pundits wrong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: But the math is pretty daunting for Senator McCain right now. On Saturday he's heading to New Mexico. Sunday he will be in Iowa and Ohio. Monday on to Pennsylvania. The problem for McCain right now is virtually all of those states are must win. Lisa?
SYLVESTER: Well, Ed, you know in the primaries we saw McCain had quite the comeback. I mean is it possible in the next 11 days, can he narrow down his message? Do you think he'll narrow down his message or do you think he'll take kind of a broad approach in dealing with the economy?
HENRY: Somewhat narrow. He's going to focus on two things. The economy, as you mentioned, he's going to especially continue to hit Obama hard on taxes but also talk about trying to help homeowners beat up on the Treasury Department. He's been doing all week and Secretary Paulson as a way of trying to separate himself from President Bush on the economy. But secondly, he's got a tough new ad out today hitting Obama hard on the question of whether or not he's ready to be commander in chief. It's an old argument. We've heard it before, but they are going to continue that in the final 11 days, Lisa.
SYLVESTER: Well Ed he is certainly running out of time. Ed Henry, thanks for that report from Washington.
Wall Street today ended another tough week with steep losses. The Dow today lost 312 points as fears of a recession gripped the market. The sell off this week erased another $800 billion of market value, including huge sums from 401(k) plans. General Motors says it will suspend matching payments to its employee's 401 (k) plans.
This as GM's auto sales plummet. Meanwhile, the number three U.S. automaker, Chrysler, says it will cut a quarter of its salaried staff, as many as 5,000 salaried workers. Chrysler is in merger talks with GM. Reports say those talks are intensifying.
Well, there was some good economic news today. AAA says average gasoline prices fell to $2.78 a gallon, a sharp decline from the peak of more than $4 in July. And crude oil prices fell again, ending the day at $84 a barrel. That compares with a high of $147 barrel in July.
Also some more good news on the housing market today. Existing home sales rose last month. The National Association of Realtors says sales jumped in September to more than five million. That's up almost 1.5 percent from a year ago. Sales increased last month, however, because home prices continued to decline.
Prices fell an average of almost nine percent from last year and economists say the housing market remains very weak. One indication being the huge number of foreclosed homes on the market.
The housing and economic crisis the main issue on the campaign trail today, Senator McCain today declared the middle class will be put through the ringer, as he put it, if Senator Obama becomes president. Dana Bash with the McCain campaign reports from Denver, Colorado.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Coming to Colorado may be more symbolic than politically practical. John McCain's attempt to defy the perception that red states like this are out of his reach.
MCCAIN: We're going to win Colorado...
BASH: But his campaign is clearly less optimistic. They reportedly slashed their Colorado TV ad spending this week in half. Across the board Republicans are increasingly pessimistic.
ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: He's got to change the national environment, change the national conversation, and to do that in two weeks when you haven't been able to do it in two years is going to be very tough. BASH: Still, McCain aides insist to CNN their internal data shows traction in key swing states, thanks to "Joe the Plumber" and attacks on Obama's tax plan.
MCCAIN: You know Senator Obama may say he's trying to soak the rich, but it's the middle class we're going to get through the ringer.
BASH: And McCain is now trying to lure voters by warning about Democrats in charge.
MCCAIN: The answer to a slowing economy is not higher taxes, but that's what is going to happen when the Democrats have total control of Washington. We can't let that happen.
BASH: McCain is also trying to inject national security back into an election dominated by the economy after months of unsuccessfully trying to convince voters that Obama's inexperience makes him risky. He's trying again using Joe Biden's words with this foreboding ad.
BIDEN, CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL: We're going to have an international crisis to test the mettle of this guy. I guarantee you it's going to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL: It doesn't have to happen. Vote McCain.
ERIN WENTLY, UNDECIDED VOTER: Believe it or not, I am still undecided.
BASH: But Independent Colorado voter Erin Wently, who came to see McCain, tells us that argument doesn't sway her at all.
WENTLY: You know what, they are both risky, if we're honest. They're both risky.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now McCain didn't seal the deal with that undecided voter. She told us after coming and listening to him she still isn't sure who she is going to vote for. But Lisa, McCain aides tell us just the fact that undecided voters like Erin are still coming to rallies, still willing to listen and check out McCain, they say that that is a promising thing for them because they understand that the odds are very long in this swing state and several other swing states, but it gives them hope that perhaps, perhaps winning is not completely out of the realm -- Lisa.
SYLVESTER: Yeah, but Dana, you know if McCain is having trouble holding on to a red state, that doesn't speak very well for his campaign at this point. It sounds like he has got a lot of catching up to do.
BASH: He has a lot of catching up to do and I got to tell you, you can't find anybody inside the McCain campaign at the highest levels who will tell you otherwise. I mean they understand that. You're exactly right. I mean this state of Colorado, for example, McCain is six points down in our latest average of polls of polls.
A Republican -- excuse me -- a Democrat hasn't won here in 16 years so this is really evidence of the kind of challenge he has. He's going to go to New Mexico tomorrow. He's going to go on to Iowa. Those are also states that some Republicans are kind of scratching their heads saying wait a minute, you're really far behind. Why are you spending your time there? But you know they understand they're playing defense and basically, as John McCain likes to say, it is what it is right now, Lisa.
SYLVESTER: All right. Dana Bash, thanks for that report from Colorado. Thank you.
Senator Obama is taking a break from the presidential campaign to visit his gravely ill grandmother in Hawaii. Senator Obama says he wants to spend some time with his grandmother after she broke a hip. He plans to return to the campaign trail tomorrow.
Meanwhile, Michelle Obama is filling in for Senator Obama at campaign stops. She told supporters in Baxley (ph), Ohio, not to take anything for granted. Michelle Obama says it's been a long, hard race and it will be a close finish.
The latest opinion polls indicate Democrats could achieve sweeping gains in the congressional elections on November 4th. Democrats apparently benefiting from voter fury with members of Congress and all of their partisan blather. Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): This looks like a throw the bums out election and the Republicans are the bums. The evidence: only 38 percent of voters believe most members of Congress from both parties deserve to be re-elected. They are a bunch of bums. But not all bums are the same.
Only 36 percent believe most Republican members of Congress deserve to be re-elected. While a substantially higher number, 50 percent want to see most Democratic members re-elected. Asked how they intend to vote for Congress this year, voters give the Democrats a 12-point lead nationwide.
That's bigger than Obama's lead in our poll of polls, which suggests a big Democratic tie that could sweep in Obama and bigger Democratic majorities in Congress or more precisely a tide sweeping Republicans out to sea. Democrats argue that big Congressional majorities will help get things done.
SEN CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: We're going to bring change. It's going to be mainstream change. It's going to be thoughtful change, but it's certainly going to avoid the gridlock that every single thing you want to do is filibuster.
SCHNEIDER: But do voters really want to give one party that much power? Slightly more voters would rather see the White House and Congress controlled by different parties than by the same party. Republicans are beginning to warn about giving the Democrats a blank check as in this Republican ad in North Carolina warning voters about voting for the Democratic Senate candidate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, POLITICAL AD: No checks and balances. No debate. No independence. That's the truth behind Kay Hagan. If she wins, they get a blank check.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The Republican Senatorial Committee has sent an e- mail signed by Senator Orrin Hatch (ph) that says quote, "if we don't act now to defend our Senate firewall, conservatives will be powerless to stop Barack Obama's rule by fiat (ph)." So, Lisa, the assumption seems to be that Senator Obama is going to win the election.
SYLVESTER: All right. Thanks, Bill. Thanks for that report.
Much more on the presidential campaign ahead. It's just over a week to election day. Is the race already over for Senator McCain? Three top political analysts will join us.
And rising concerns that an Army brigade with combat experience in Iraq could be used to deal with civil disorder in this country. We'll have a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SYLVESTER: New questions tonight about an Army combat brigade being trained to deal with civil disturbances in the United States, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 generally prohibits federal uniformed services from carrying out domestic law enforcement duties, except in cases expressly authorized by the Constitution or an act of Congress. Critics say the brigade's training goes against one of the founding principles of our country, separation of military and civilian government. Louise Schiavone has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They spent 30 months on the streets of Baghdad, now the first brigade combat team of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division is back in the USA. "The Army Times" reporting quote, "they may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios", end quote. The question arises why and isn't that what the National Guard does?
CRAIG TREBILCOCK, ATTORNEY: Infantry brigade is designed to engage an enemy with maximum effective force and destroy it. That's not the sort of thing anybody wants to see in the streets of the United States.
SCHIAVONE: Almost 5,000 strong, the brigade is based at Fort Stewart (ph), Georgia under control of Northern Command who tells CNN quote, "the primary purpose of this force is to provide help to people in need in the aftermath of a WMD-like event in the homeland so that were they called to support civil authority, those governors or local state jurisdictions that might need our help that they would be responsive and capable in the aftermath of an event like this", end quote. On Capitol Hill questions about how the Pentagon determined that a thinly-stretched military with two conflicts underway could spare these troops?
REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: That's a misuse of assets as it can be deployed I think more efficiently somewhere else when you have a Guard that you can call up on a moment's notice.
SCHIAVONE: Historically the posting is unusual. In modern history Army troops have been used at extraordinary junctures under the first President Bush to contain the 1992 riots in Los Angeles, under President Lyndon Johnson in response to Detroit's 1967 riots and in the grips of a depression by President Herbert Hoover to contain Army veterans demanding their bonuses, all actions says historian Robert Dallek undertaken by...
ROBERT DALLEK, AUTHOR, "HARRY S. TRUMAN": Unpopular presidents on edge about their capacity to lead, to invoke public support for whatever it is they think needs to be done.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lisa, "The Army Times" journalist tells us that the story has generated intense public interest and four weeks into a flurry of questions about the report, the Army finally contacted her. And they requested that she publish a clarification that containing domestic civil unrest was not part of the first brigade mission.
SYLVESTER: Louise Schiavone, thank you very much for that report.
The American Civil Liberties Union is demanding information on the Army brigade's deployment. It claims quote, "this deployment jeopardizes the long-standing separation between civilian and military government." Now this isn't the first time this week the ACLU has challenged the federal government.
As we reported here, the ACLU is suing the Department of Homeland Security to block a successful Border Patrol checkpoint program. The Border Patrol currently has the authority to operate checkpoints up to 100 miles from the border. Now the ACLU claims this program violates the rights of those who live in that zone.
A majority of Americans tonight say they want more enforcement of our nation's immigration laws. A new "Judicial Watch"/Zogby poll found that among likely voters, 71 percent believe local police should enforce federal immigration law.
Seventy-one percent said local governments shouldn't use taxpayer funds to operate day labor cites that cater to illegal aliens and the employers who hire them. Fifty-seven percent believe more law enforcement is needed to deal with the illegal immigration crisis and 55 percent oppose sanctuary policies in American cities. Well coming up, new recession fears send the markets plummeting. We'll ask three of the top economic thinkers in the country what they would do to fix this mess.
And the left wing activist group ACORN admits it overstated the number of voters it registered. We'll have the real numbers next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SYLVESTER: The radical leftwing group ACORN tonight is admitting to grossly overstating the number of new voters it has registered. The group claimed it registered more than 1.3 million new voters. In reality, ACORN registered 450,000 new voters and many of those registrations are under investigation for possible fraud. Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, proudly spoke of registering more than one million voters for the upcoming election.
SCOTT LEVENSON, ACORN SPOKESMAN: We have no doubt that by registering 1.3 million folks nationwide by enfranchising people who are poor or younger than those that are currently registered gives us an opportunity to reach out to a whole bunch of folks that weren't reached out to before.
TUCKER: No doubt. But now ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote say that, that figure represents the number of registration applications, not new voters. The number of newly registered voters is estimated to be closer to 450,000. The remainder are registered voters who were changing their addresses.
And some 400,000 whose applications were rejected by election of board officials. Some of those submitted applications were duplicates, others deemed to be fraudulent. A spokesman issued this statement in defense of the group's registration drives.
Quote "Only the government can register voters. What Project Vote and ACORN do is assist Americans in filling out registration applications and submitting them to election officials who make the final determination of their eligibility."
Employment Policies Institute, which authored a report called "Rotten ACORN", doubts that much more will happen to the group beyond it being temporarily embarrassed.
RICK BERMAN, EMPLOYMENT POLICIES INSTITUTE: It's disgusting to me that they can get away with this kind of stuff, and more importantly, you think to yourself if one person openly tried to register their dog or tried to register themselves twice, you know people would think, well that's terrible. That's criminal activity.
TUCKER: Supporters of ACORN point out there is a big difference between registration fraud and actual voter fraud.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: But it's been a tough week for ACORN. Earlier this week "The New York Times" reported on an internal review that raised serious questions about the co-mingling of political and...
(AUDIO GAP)
TUCKER: ... that could possibly jeopardize ACORN's tax status as a nonpartisan nonprofit group, Lisa.
SYLVESTER: Yeah and this group is under investigation in several states, right, for fraud at this point.
TUCKER: At least a dozen states are looking into voter registration fraud and a lot of people are saying the biggest damage they've done is basically muck up the voting process because it made it more difficult for the boards of elections who are now going through all of these fraudulent registration forms and slowing the voting process.
SYLVESTER: Yeah, they have to sort through this whole process when you have voters being registered under a name like Mickey Mouse. I mean this it's ridiculous.
TUCKER: Which sounds silly, but if you get enough of those, what you end up doing is you end up slowing the process and that affects everybody.
SYLVESTER: All right. Bill Tucker, thanks for your report.
Well, there are reports of early voting problems in at least two states tonight. In Georgia, election officials reprinted 19,000 ballots because they don't fit in the optical scanning machine. Another 10,000 Georgia absentee ballots already turned in will have to be hand counted.
And in Tennessee voters in one county were given ballots for the wrong State House District. Some voters caught that mistake at the time. Others called in later to report that mistake.
And if you notice any trouble at our polling place on or before election day, we want to hear about it. Please call CNN's voter hotline, 1-877-462-6608 and you can find that number on our Web site at loudobbs.com.
Time now for tonight's poll. Do you have more or less faith in the integrity of our election system than you did in 2000? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com and we'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.
Up next, 11 days to election day and some say the contest could already be over. Three of the best political analysts will tell us if it's too late for McCain to defeat Obama. And the markets lose nearly $1 trillion this week on new fears of a recession. Three of the finest economic thinkers will join us to tell us what is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion, an independent view. Here again Lisa Sylvester.
SYLVESTER: The markets today sold off again on new concerns about a worldwide recession. The Dow ending the week more than five percent lower. Joining me now from Washington, Professor Peter Morici of the Robert H. Smith School of Business at the University of Maryland. Allen Sinai, chief global economist and president of Decision Economics and in Rochester New York, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist David Cay Johnston, author of "Free Lunch" How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense" (ph).
Now stocks are plummeting. We -- it all but appears that we are now in a global recession. Allen, what does this mean for working men and women?
ALLEN SINAI, PRES., DECISION ECONOMICS: You know it means there are going to be a lot of lost jobs. The unemployment rate is going to go up very high, perhaps approach eight percent. The news is going to be ugly on the economy and the jobs market in the next three to six months. And our stock market is going to be ugly in the economy and the jobs market in the next three to section months and our stock market is going to stay in a bearish configuration.
SYLVESTER: Peter, do you think we've hit the bottom, yet? I mean, every day, just about every day we see the stocks plummeting. When do we reach this bottom?
PROF PETER MORICI, ROBERT H SMITH SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Well, we certainly haven't reached the bottom for the economy. I don't know about the stocks. But we're starting to see in the real economy the bite of the shortage of credit -- businesses shutting down, businesses laying off employees in very large numbers, sales forecasts for the largest corporations, not only here but abroad, indicating a much slowing market place, and that veil of pessimism is coming to grip on people in terms of people of their spending habits and in terms of the stock market. Even if we could get the banks lending again, which we failed to do when we put equity in them, it's going to be a while before for the economy would to turn around. Now we're in the full grips of it.
SYLVESTER: David, you just heard what Peter said. You know, is there any sense that elected leaders have any clue what to do here?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, PULITZER PRIZE WINNING JOURNALIST: I don't know, I think it's very interesting, we have not heard from any of the candidates about what is happening to people who, in this jobless recovery, haven't done well. I've been talking to people in the last few days who run soup kitchens and emergency food pantries and they tell me all across the country, depending on where I call, that demand is up 20 to 40 percent and that all new clientele are people who have never before asked for help, including construction workers used to being, you know, working and then being out of work and they don't have any food in the house.
I think that this problem is a lot deeper than we think. Remember, we've only created a little more than four million jobs in the last eight years, maybe close to five million jobs, where we needed to create about 15 million just to keep up with the population growth.
SYLVESTER: You know, it almost seems that the candidates, what they are doing is attracting each other, but not offering any real solutions. Now, we have some sound from Senator Obama on the McCain trail that I want to play and then have you listen and respond to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Bush policy of lavishing tax cuts on corporations, including those that ship American jobs overseas.
(BOOING)
He made kind of a strange argument that they best way to stop companies from shipping jobs overseas is to give more tax cuts to companies that are shipping jobs overseas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: You know, Peter, do you think that this is the message that resonates with voters or do they really want to hear, what are you going to do to help me save a job?
MORICI: Well, I think they'd like to hear what he's going to do to help save the jobs, but when you listen to McCain, which is really more of the same, Obama can get by with that kind of rhetoric. One of the reasons the markets are so gripped in despair is there's no indication what this guy is going to do after he takes office in January. It doesn't seem like he really has a plan. It seems like his economic policies are premised on a great wealth creating machine and that the principle problem is redistributing income.
I got news for Mr. Obama, the wealth creating machine is busted.
SYLVESTER: Yeah, you know, McCain was hitting a point, and essentially saying, why are you even thinking about raising taxes at this point? We have some sound from McCain as well, that we'd like to hear from him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The answer to a slowing economy is not higher taxes.
(APPLAUSE) The answer to a slowing economy is not higher taxes, but that's what is going to happen when the Democrats have total control of Washington. We can't let that happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: Allen, if could you respond to that, you heard Senator McCain questioning why would you raise taxes when the economy and the state that it is right now and you heard Peter, just say, look, the problem is that we need to get back creating real wealth here in this country, what are your thoughts?
SINAI: Well, first, Senator Obama has a tax cut plan, has been very, very clear, he's going to keep the Bush tax cuts for the middle and lower income families and just raise taxes on upper income families. Congress is working hard on another stimulus program and tax relief, further tax relief is part of it. It's not quite right to accuse Senator Obama of raising taxes, that's only a small portion of our population. And of course, the high income people do save and help to create wealth. Our problem now is consumption spending is very weak, consumers don't have enough money, they're really stretched and strained. Tax cuts for the middle and lower income families along with increased government spending is going to happen, probably, in a special session of Congress, if Senator Obama is elected. That will happen very quickly. Congress is setting up to do that. And I think Senator Obama, as pointed out, doesn't have to say too much at this point, he's going to just walk right into victory, given the way things are going.
SYLVESTER: You know, David, this idea, first of the stimulus plan, a package that Congress is talking about, do you think this is a good idea? Is this something that we need right now, a second stimulus or are we talking about something that's just going to add to the deficit?
JOHNSTON: Well, we've been living with Keynesian stimulus throughout the last eight years, that's what the government's been fundamentally doing and it has not worked, especially. The idea of giving checks to people, we're going to write you a $300 or $500 check, we know from the two times that's been done that it doesn't produce the economic results we want. There are things that we need and could be doing if the government wants to prime the pump by spending money. First and foremost, addressing the pinch points in the infrastructure that are making our economy less efficient, and secondly, a redirecting some of the money back towards research that builds our knowledge base and makes us wealthier in the long-run.
Right now, I understand the National Institutes of Health are only approving about 11 percent of research grants, for example.
SYLVESTER: Peter, what do you think? Doe you think we need a stimulus package? Or what do you think needs to happen at this point to really turn things around?
MORICI: Well, we got to do two things, we got to make the banks start loaning money. We've given them all this liquidity and now they turn around and say they are going to use it to buy the banks. We need to make our aid to them conditional on them making more loans. At the same time, what stimulus we have, David's right, just giving taxpayers some more money, they spend it on t-shirts and coffeemakers and it doesn't get us anywhere. We really ought to focus on infrastructure, building a permanent legacy of a more productive economy, both in terms of buildings and roads and things that need to be done and also on research and development. I agree with him, there. That's the place to spend the money. Invest it. Also, that money stays here. When we give people stimulus money in tax cuts, they tend to buy imports.
SYLVESTER: You know, David, the next president who is going to have a huge task, to say the least, what do you think he needs to do?
JOHNSTON: Well, immediately, he needs to let the market know who is going to be his Treasury secretary and start floating that out, because there's a confidence problem, here. And I think he needs to make it clear that the banks can't continue to be on strike. The banking industry needs to be, with a carrot and a stick, told you've got to get back into the business, here, of lending money and making the economy. And part of that is we've got to have some banks fail, we've got -- the government has to figure out, if it doesn't know, where there are concentrated problems and allow the banks to go so that we can move forward from where we are now.
SYLVESTER: Allen, and we'll give -- allow you to have the final word. Your concluding thoughts?
SINAI: You know, I think monetary policy has to stay stimulated; interest rates have to come down more, that's going to be across the world. We do need some more stimulus out of Washington, it will be, I think, on the infrastructure side, as the other guest have said. And if there are tax cuts, tax rebate checks from this guy, they don't do any good, they have to be permanent tax cuts and I think we'll eventually get that. A year from now, things will look a lot better, right now we are in an economic and financial crisis, the worst since the Great Depression.
SYLVESTER: Well, we have some of the brightest minds. We appreciate your insight, gentlemen. Thank you very much for joining. And we certainly hope the policy makers are listening and -- to your great and wonderful insight. Thank you very much, gentlemen, appreciate your time.
Well coming up, the candidates prepare for the last week of the presidential campaign. Are there any game changers on the horizon?
An Election Day could effectively bring a one-party Congress if the Democrats make significant gains. We'll discuss those issues and much more, next with three of the nation's top political analysts. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SYLVESTER: Joining me now are three of the best political analysts in the country, all CNN contributors. Republican strategist, Ed Rollins. Ed served as White House political director under Ronald Reagan, recently chaired Mike Huckabee's presidential campaign. Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for the "New York Daily News," Michael Goodwin. And Democratic strategist, Robert Zimmerman. Robert is also a national Democratic committeeman.
Let's start with you Ed. Eleven days to go and it's not looking good for the McCain camp. Is this race over, effectively?
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: To be perfectly honest, I think it is over. I think the Democrats have more money, they have a message, we're behind in states, the most telling thing to me is not the national polls, it's the internal fighting going on in the campaigns. Campaigns have polls, internal polls, and if they were good, they wouldn't be fighting, they'd be moving forward. So, my sense is they know they're in trouble.
SYLVESTER: You know, Robert, what do you think? Do you want to gloat? Do you want to do a victory lap yet?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: You know, I've said before, and I think it's worth repeating, that one few benefits of being a Democratic national committeeman, after the past presidential races, we don't exactly suffer from overconfidence. After 2000 and 2004, both of which were victories we were -- we thought were there. No one's taking this race for granted. Obviously, it's looking encouraging and what's most impressive to me is the way these -- Barack Obama's getting 50 percent in these battleground states and that's a very important telling sign and the way people, most concerned about the economy, and people who've identified themselves as middleclass voters, are rallying behind Barack Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, Senator McCain is continuing to campaign in these battleground states, as you mention, and he's essentially saying that Senator Obama is another tax and spend liberal. Let's hear what McCain had to say on the campaign trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: (INAUDIBLE) in new government spending, his tax increase would impact 50 percent of small business income in this country and the jobs of 16 million middleclass American who work for those small businesses. I'm not going to let that happen to you, my friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: All right. Michael, he certainly is trying, he's trying to stay in the fight, but is this economic message a little, too little, too late? I mean, he's saying, look, this guy is going to spend all of your money.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: Well, he's called him a socialist and, look, I mean, I think there is some truth to the charge that Obama is a tax and spend liberal. The problem for McCain is it's not working now, and I think that each day the stock market goes down and each day people's wealth vanishes, each day the unemployment is reported to be going higher and businesses closing, GM going to, you know, cut back on the 401(k) contributions, eliminate those. That's the kind of news that charge against an Obama, just doesn't resonate. People actually probably want a socialist about now. They want somebody who's going to promise them things and give them everything because they're scared and they see their nest eggs vanishing their housing declining, I mean everything is going bad for a lot of people.
SYLVESTER: Yeah Ed, do you buy that people want a socialist right now in the White House?
ROLLINS: I hope not, but I think at the end of the day they want a change and Barack Obama has very effectively been the candidate of change. Hillary tried to make the case him on she's more experienced, John McCain tried to make the case against, more experience. The people don't want Washington experience, they want someone who's going to go in there and shake it up. And I think they think Barack's going to do it.
ZIMMERMAN: Let me put both of your minds at ease in that the country is not voting for socialists or socialism. The country, I think, is pointing -- as pointed out, is voting for change, but what's most significant about that clip from McCain, his he's still running in a very old paradigm. This is not about liberal versus conservative. This is really about having new ideas and bold visions for the future and I think the reason you've seen McCain attacks fail, is because he's not projecting a vision for the future, he's just engaging these kinds of cheap shots. There's nothing liberal about opposing the free trade agreements, or for that matter, supposing the outsourcing the jobs. That economic commend sense to stand up to outsourcing and on some of these crazy free trade deals.
SYLVESTER: Michael?
GOODWIN: Well, I think Barack Obama, by any measure, is one of the most liberal presidential nominees, probably, since George McGovern, and he may be more liberal than McGovern. It really is -- I mean, the label is fair, but I think what's changed is that the times are so tough for people that they're not paying attention to that label. Obama is offering them more and also he's not a Republican. I mean, to run as a Republican after George Bush and in this economy with the lingering unhappiness about Iraq still there, it's an almost an impossible thing.
Now, McCain has run a terrible McCain in many ways, but I do think fundamentally, Obama is a liberal and the people want the government to do more for them and he's promising more.
SYLVESTER: You know, Ed, what does that mean, though, I mean, in terms of -- and it goes back to the whole charge of tax and spend -- I mean, are we going to see our taxes increase because you can't make all of these promises or we're going to say this, we're going to do this, we're going to do that, and at some point somebody's got to pay for it.
ROLLINS: Equally as -- I mean, he keeps talking about those little small group of people at the top who are going to pay for everything. Well, the truth of the matttter is, those people at the top are the ones that drive the economic engine, it's not the lower income people who pay taxes or who are going to get the benefits from his program, that drive the economic engine. The economic engine is driven, as is the tax base, driven by people who basically make a lot of money, who create small business, employee people.
ZIMMERMAN: And Ed, the point is very well taken. But if you provide these tax breaks, only for the top earners, and then on top of that give them incentives to outsource jobs and give them free trade agreements so they're manufacturing overseas, that is not driving the economic engine. We've lost 750,000 jobs this year alone.
ROLLINS: You know, I've not heard your candidate say that you're going to become totally isolationists and that no jobs go...
ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's not the alternative.
ROLLINS: Well, what is the alternative?
ZIMMERMAN: The alternative is going to be to make sure that we rebuild the manufacturing industry in this country, we don't encourage outsourcing and we make sure free trade agreements protect Americans workers.
ROLLINS: That's a vivid dream. I wish you well. You're going to rebuild Detroit, you're going to rebuild the textile industry in the South, you're going to all of these promises. I've watched this campaign very closely for two years. I have not heard Barack Obama promise anything that I haven't heard Democrats promised in the past. He may be the next president, but there's nothing new that's been offered on the table.
ZIMMERMAN: Weill, I think the initiatives we're seeing about environmental jobs, green jobs, as they are called, based upon environmental initiative, is a great opportunity. And I think there are new -- we can't just accept the fact...
GOODWIN: Well, can I -- let me...
SYLVESTER: Yeah, let's get Michael in.
GOODWIN: One example there, I mean ethanol. I mean, ethanol is a scam. Ethanol is the most heavily subsidized fuel. We have tariffs on Brazilian Ethanol and we subsidize American Ethanol. The total difference is about $1.06 just for the subsidy and the tariff, right there. John McCain, at least, came out against ethanol. People are going to argue that that's what's a green job is the Ethanol industry, it's totally government created and totally government supported effectively created by lobbyist. I mean, that's the kind of thing that I think is not new, it's very old, and that's going to be the Obama platform, we're going to have bigger and deficits and the country will get run into the ground.
(CROSSTALK)
SYLVESTER: Time for a time out. I know that we can go on and on, but we got to take a break here, so hold on. Coming up at the top of the hour, Campbell Brown, NO BIAS, NO BULL.
Campbell, what are you working on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, NO BIAS, NO BULL: Thanks Lisa, well, John McCain warning crowds, the Democrats are already measuring the drapes in the White House. But can he still win this thing? We're going to show you how and dig into his strategy for the closing days of the campaign.
Also tonight, we've got a new inductee to the NO BIAS, NO BULL rogues gallery. There are members of Congress out there that have strayed so far from the straight and narrow path by, for example, getting caught with $90,000 of FBI sting money in their freezers. We're going to remind you who that was and how it happens, coming up in just a few minutes -- Lisa.
SYLVESTER: All right, thank you very much, Campbell. We'll be back with more from our panel in just a moment. Also still ahead, "Heroes," our tribute to the brave men and women who serve this country in uniform. Tonight we introduce you to Air Force Captain Dennis Hargis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SYLVESTER: And we're back now with Ed Rollins, Michael Goodwin and Robert Zimmerman. And, of course, there with all this presidential chatter we have to remember, there are congressional races going on right now. And we have some numbers that we want to share with our viewer. The question was posed: Do most members of Congress deserve to be reelected? That's a CNN Opinion Research Corporation Poll -- 37 percent, only 37 percent said yes, 58 percent said no. Then when the question was asked: Does your member of Congress deserve to be reelected? Slightly better there, 55 percent said yes, 38 percent said no. We're going to start first with Ed.
What does this tell you? I mean this is real "kick the bums out."
ROLLINS: It's happened on many occasions when they have "kick the bums out," but it's always about the member who basically gets their kids in high school and sends them graduation letters and birthday letters. They always thinks their one member is different. The overall rating of Congress is at an all time low, it's eight, 10 percent. I think there's a lot of weak incumbents that are going to be defeated.
GOODWIN: I'm surprised 37 percent said, you know, don't kick him out. That's what shocked me. Given, as Ed said, eight, 10 percent approval ratings, I'm not sure that this sample lines up with the other. And I do I think it's, again, it's a lot of unhappiness in the country, a lot of difficult times for people -- they're frustrated, they're angry. I mean, you watch Wall Street. I mean, this whole thing, who's fault is it? I mean, no one wants to take responsibility for this collapse. What is it, three, $4 trillion of wealth have vanished, I mean... SYLVESTER: And Democrats, Robert, see an opportunity here, perhaps, in terms of Congress and at least in the Senate, picking up some seats, perhaps getting that magic number of 60, that filibuster proof. How likely is it that they will be able...
ZIMMERMAN: I think you used the right word, it's opportunity, it's not a mandate and they make a mistake. I agree with Michael. I was surprised that it was as high as 37 percent, want to protect their -- support their members of Congress because there's enormous anger and frustration. But, the reality is, there is a real opportunity as part of this national wave that we're seeing building for Democrats to perhaps pick up 57 to 60 seats, possibly, and up perhaps to 20 or to 25 House seats.
SYLVESTER: You know, we have an ad that is really telling, it comes from North Carolina. Let's listen in -- National Republican Editorial Committee, they're essentially trying use this argument of Democratic filibuster proof as a reason to vote and convince voters, here. So, let's play that ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The Washington powerbrokers, these liberals want complete control of government in a time of crisis. All branches of government. No checks and balances, no debate, no independence. That's a truth behind Kay Hagan. If she wins, they get a blank check.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: Well, it's essentially assuming that McCain is out, in this case, I mean, it's very telling in many ways. Ed, what are your thoughts?
ROLLINS: This is Elizabeth Doles, one of the icons of our party, her husband, obviously was the nominee majority leader, she had two cabinet posts, she's the senator there, she's 10 points behind, this is a desperation -- can't give any reason why she should be reelected, I guess, other than, basically to hold off the Democrat hoard.
SYLVESTER: OK, we've got to end there. I know, time is up, gentlemen, appreciate your time. Ed Rollins, Robert Zimmerman, Michael Goodwin, always a pleasure.
Well, still ahead, "Heroes," our tribute to the brave men and women who serve the country in uniform. Tonight, we meet Air Force Captain Dennis Hargis, who helped save the lives of a dozen of our troops.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SYLVESTER: And now "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the brave men and women who serve this country in uniform. Tonight, we introduce you to Air Force Captain Dennis Hargis. Last year, Captain Hargis helped save the lives of 12 soldiers while fighting in this country's other war, Afghanistan. Philippa Holland has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHILIPPA HOLLAND, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Afghanistan, 2007. Air Force Captain Dennis Hargis returning from his final combat mission, is radioed to avoid a firefight just ahead. Hargis monitored the firefights, communications for two aircraft already on the scene, were limited, but not for Hargis.
CAPT DENNIS HARGIS, U.S. AIR FORCE: After hearing his plea to the other aircraft (INAUDIBLE) station, I had chimed in and I told them that Hog flight was there. I've got two A-10s, I could be at the firefight soon, but we were low on gas.
HOLLAND: The situation on ground was dire.
HARGIS: Twelve vehicle convoy of American Humvees had come under severe ambush. One of the vehicles was burning down to the ground, two others vehicles were disabled and those two disable vehicles were being pushed and toed by the single Humvees. They had 12 wounded onboard and these young heroes were bleeding to death, trying to get out of that kill-zone, there.
HOLLAND: The convoy was traveling less than 10ten miles-an-hour with four miles to safety under a constant barge of fire.
HARGIS: At that point, these guys were screaming for help saying, Hog (INAUDIBLE) I need you now, we need your help. And our job, as an A-10 piglet, is to protect those guys on the ground and make sure they live to do their missions over there.
HOLLAND: Hargis and his wingman made six passes over the combat scene, shooting dangerously close to U.S. forces each time.
HARGIS: I can still hear his voice today, the guy on the ground getting shot at, just yelled as happy as he could, "Good hits, Hog! Good hits. You're right on the position; keep that up along our route."
HOLLAND: Already low on fuel, Hargis then ran out of bullets.
HARGIS: First time I ever had to say, just put down 20 to 50 rounds for now, just short bursts to get the enemy's head down and let our guys get out of there.
HOLLAND: The entire mission, 10 minutes.
HARGIS: They ended up getting those 12 heroes loaded up on the helicopters and escorted them to Bahgram (ph) where they receive their trauma medical care. All 12 of those guys are alive today.
HOLLAND: That was last fall. This fall, Hargis is home Davis- Monthan Air Force Base with his wife and two daughters.
Philippa Holland, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Quite an amazing story.
Tonight's poll results, 92 percent of you have less faith in integrity of our election system than in 2000. Thanks for being with us, tonight. Goodnight from New York. Campbell Brown, NO BIAS, NO BULL starts right now.
