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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Obama's Path to Power; Bailout for Detroit; Help for Homeowners; AIG Bailout Party; Amnesty Agenda
Aired November 11, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Thank you, Wolf. Tonight on this Veterans Day, we honor all our veterans and the hundreds of thousands of men and women serving this nation in uniform all around the world. We'll have a live report tonight from the "Intrepid" sea, air, and space museum.
Also tonight President-elect Obama raising the pressure on the Bush administration to give Detroit millions of dollars in emergency aid. Presidential historian Doug Brinkley joins me to assess the president-elect's path to power.
And tonight CNN founder, yachtsman and philanthropist Ted Turner joins me to talk about his revealing new book "Call Me Ted", all of that, all the day's news, and much more from an independent perspective straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Tuesday, November 11th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. The Bush White House and President-elect Obama tonight in a standoff over whether to give emergency aid to our struggling automobile industry, the president- elect asking the Bush administration to give the big three carmakers billions of dollars of new aid, the carmakers say they're literally running out of money.
But the Bush administration appears reluctant to provide any direct help to the automobile industry, after handing over as much as $2 trillion to the financial services industry. Candy Crowley reports now from Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seen but not heard, Barack Obama honored veterans in a brief ceremony in Chicago while the chatter about his meeting Monday with the president got more specific. Sources on the Obama transition team say the president-elect urged President Bush to take quick action to help the auto industry. Obama suggested the move could be coupled with appointment of a car czar, someone with the authority to push for and oversee the sorts of reforms Obama spoke about recently.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've made it a high priority for my transition team to work on additional policy options to help the auto industry adjust whether the financial crisis can succeed in producing fuel-efficient cars.
CROWLEY: According to a source who got a read-out of the private session, the incoming president also told the outgoing president about other priorities, aid to homeowners under threat of foreclosure and the urgent need for a second stimulus package. Asked for President Bush's reaction, an Obama source said Obama is, quote, "not under any great illusion that Bush would support another stimulus package."
Both the White House and Obama aides say President Bush listed his own priorities for what's left of his term, and top on that list, a free-trade deal with Colombia, which the president argues would help the U.S. economy. Both sides denied stories that the president said he would consider Obama's suggestions if Congress approved the trade deal.
More precisely, one Obama source said "President Bush did not specifically suggest a quid pro quo". Stories that Bush was bargaining upset the White House and briefly threatened to break up all that happy talk about the smooth transition. It is now back on track. Vice president in waiting Joe Biden was effusive about it in his Veterans Day salute to those who have served.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN, (D-DE) VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is remarkable testament to what you all fought for that there is absolutely, absolutely, total, complete, unadulterated cooperation and movement as if it's seamless.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: But a smooth transition, of course, does not mean these two men are in agreement about much. In fact, at this point, the White House says, it's open to ideas about saving the auto industry, but not yet sold on anything. Lou?
DOBBS: All right, Candy, thank you very much. Candy Crowley.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today called upon the Bush administration to reach a quick decision to help the automobile industry. Pelosi wants Congress to vote on a bailout in a lame-duck session of Congress that she wants held next week. Democrats say millions of jobs in the big three carmakers, suppliers are at risk. Lisa Sylvester has our report from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another bad day for the big three. At one point, General Motors' shares were down 18 percent to $2.76. That's the lowest level since 1943. Ford stock is now going for less than $2 a share.
DAVID COLE, CENTER FOR AUTOMOTIVE RESEARCH: Based on what we have seen just in the last couple of months, we're into a disaster scenario on auto sales. Short revenue, short cash, the cash burn goes up dramatically in these companies.
SYLVESTER: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi issued a statement calling for emergency financial assistance. The exact shape or the amount is still being worked out. Critics say the taxpayers shouldn't be shouldered with another bailout after the money it's committed to save banks and insurance interests.
DAN MITCHELL, CATO INSTITUTE: Both represent the fundamentally wrong approach of Washington to try to subsidize failure and punish success.
SYLVESTER: But the Center for Automotive Research says the cost of doing nothing is enormous. It estimates that a total collapse of the domestic industry would result in a loss of nearly three million direct and supplier jobs. Still, money alone may not solve all of the industry's problems. The automakers face huge legacy costs, health care and pensions. And for decades, the big three have been loosing customers.
CLIFFORD WINSTON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: In terms of price and value, U.S. automakers' cars have gotten better, as a lot of people have argued. The problem is their competitors' price and value has gotten better even more.
SYLVESTER: Congress has already approved $25 billion for the industry to develop more fuel-efficient vehicles, but the automakers say what they really need is cash to survive and they need it now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: This isn't the first time that the government has considered an auto industry bailout. In 1979, Chrysler received $1.5 billion in loan guarantees. Chrysler paid the loans back ahead of schedule, but some analysts say having the government as a safety net did not create the right incentives for the industry to evolve and adapt and that's one reason the automakers are in the situation they are in now. Lou?
DOBBS: And is there any discussion there in Washington, Lisa, that Chrysler is in a different position, say, than General Motors or Ford because it is a private company owned by private investors?
SYLVESTER: You know, at this point what they are talking about is just lumping all three. They say that there would be job losses across the board if there was a total collapse. So, we know that Chrysler is in an awful lot of trouble right now, so right now lawmakers are lumping them all together. There is not talk of separating out GM and Ford and Chrysler on the other hand.
DOBBS: That would be quite a windfall for private investors, would it not?
SYLVESTER: It would indeed. It would indeed Lou.
DOBBS: All right, I'm sure that that's going to be a matter for some discussion in the days ahead. Thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
The federal government today finally announced a plan to help homeowners who are being devastated by our mortgage crisis. The government's program will enable some homeowners to renegotiate their mortgages. The one top government official, FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair tonight said those measures simply don't go far enough. Ines Ferre has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With half a million homeowners currently in foreclosure and another four million behind in their payments, the federal government unveiled a new way for Americans to keep their homes. The so-called mortgage modification plan aims to help borrowers whose mortgages are owned or guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
NEEL KASHKARI, INTERIM ASST. TREASURY SECY.: There is no silver bullet to address the housing downturn. We must explore all tools to help homeowners and increase the availability of mortgage finance.
FERRE: To qualify, homeowners must be at least 90 days delinquent on their loans and live in the property and have not filed for bankruptcy. The goal is to lower a borrower's payment below 38 percent of their monthly household income, but eventually they must pay the money back.
BRIAN MONTGOMERY, FED. HOUSING ADMIN. COMMISSIONER: Loan modifications are not a gift. The principal cut on the front end will be paid at the end of the loan either in extend payments or even perhaps in a balloon payment. This is not loan forgiveness.
FERRE: Housing advocates praise the measure but feel more work still needs to be done.
ERIC STEIN, CTR. FOR RESPONSIBLE LENDING: Since Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac hold half the mortgages in the country, this will make a substantial dent in the foreclosure problem, but we still have to deal with sub prime mortgages and the other half of the loan.
FERRE: The liberal Center for American Progress says it's a good start.
ANDREW JAKABOVICS, CTR. FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: I wish it would have happened, you know, nine months ago, so better late than never and there's still plenty of loans out there that are at risk of default and foreclosure.
FERRE: Freddie and Fannie mortgages together represent 20 percent of serious delinquencies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FERRE: Now, homeowners can take advantage of the new plan starting December 15th. Some banks like JPMorgan Chase and Citigroup already have their own plans to help. But the real question is will other lenders adopt these measures and how many people can they really help. Lou? DOBBS: The shame is that these lenders in all respects have not been incentivized to do what JPMorgan Chase has done here, taken the leadership to reorganize and refinance these mortgages. Now, this program that you're reporting on tonight, it sounds like it leaves out an awful lot of people.
FERRE: Well, I mean, it will leave out people who, for example, can't pay anything, don't have anything to pay, no income, and it will also leave out, for example, if you owe $300,000 on a home and your home is now worth $200,000, you still owe that $300,000.
DOBBS: There's no -- there's absolutely no adjustment on the principal, which is, of course, important when there are a number of homes underwater, that is in which...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: ... more is owed than they are worth. They range in estimates from 8.5 to 15 million homes. Thank you very much, Ines. Thank you much. Ines Ferre.
The fall in automakers' stocks today contributing to what was a broad sell-off in the stock market. The Dow Jones industrials ending the day down more than 170 points. The index was earlier down more than 300, however. Crude oil prices also continued to decline. Crude oil prices today ended at $59 a barrel. That's the lowest price level in nearly two years.
President Bush and President-elect Obama today honoring our veterans, this Veterans Day falls on the 90th anniversary of the end of World War I, Armistice Day. President Bush thanked veterans for their service in a ceremony on the aircraft carrier "Intrepid" in New York City.
President-elect Obama laid a wreath at a memorial in Soldier Field, Chicago, accompanied by Iraq war veteran Tammy Duckworth. The ceremonies come as more than 200,000 of our troops continue to fight wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. In all, nearly 300,000 of our troops are serving in 150 countries around the world or aboard ships.
Apart from Iraq and Afghanistan, the biggest overseas deployments are in Germany, Japan, and South Korea. Later here in this broadcast we'll have a live report from the deck of the "Intrepid" on today's Veterans Day ceremonies as we honor our veterans.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight -- did you take the opportunity today to acknowledge our nation's veterans? We'd like to hear from you. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
Up next -- CNN founder, philanthropist, and great American Ted Turner joins me for what I'm sure will be a revelatory interview about his life and his brand new book, "Call Me Ted".
And AIG executives at it again, enjoying another junket at your expense as their company receives billions and billions of dollars of your money. You're feeling better, aren't you? We'll have a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Once again, executives at insurance giant AIG, you know the one that's on life support from the American taxpayer, well those executives have again treated themselves to a junket at a luxury resort, at your expense, of course, AIG being kept alive with $150 billion of taxpayer bailout money. In September AIG executives spent almost $500,000 on a management retreat at a California luxury resort.
And last month executives went on an exclusive partridge hunting trip to jolly old England. This latest disregard for taxpayer money and just simple decency took place this time at a Phoenix resort. The company tried to keep it secret. But Josh Bernstein of CNN affiliate KNXV in Phoenix found them out and has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSH BERNSTEIN, KNXV PHOENIX REPORTER (voice-over): The three- day convention was held here at the Pointe Hilton Squaw Peak Resort (ph) where the palm trees and pools seem to outnumber the guests. Is this registration for the all-secretive AIG?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it is.
BERNSTEIN: AIG went to great lengths to keep the conference a secret.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you just post it on AIG (INAUDIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no, no, no.
BERNSTEIN: Did they tell you guys not to post it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't even say the word.
BERNSTEIN: According to the signs and brochures, it's the 2008 Asset Management Conference, training for independent financial planners. But the guest list includes a who's who of AIG senior management. There they are sitting poolside, drinking coffee while other people attending the conference were in meetings.
That's adviser group CEO Larry Roth, senior vice presidents Bruce Levites (ph) and Stuart Rogers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me.
BERNSTEIN: Here's company president Art Tambaro after working out at the spa walking back to his room, a private two-story villa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So they are like hotel rooms?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hotel rooms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The higher end ones?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
BERNSTEIN: This is video of a private cocktail party where AIG's top brass were working the crowd. Here are the top executives moments later climbing into a Lincoln Town car, shuttling off to the Biltmore- area restaurant McCormick and Schmick (ph) where they spent more than $400 on dinner and drinks.
(on camera): Mr. Roth, Mr. Tambaro, Josh Bernstein from ABC 15. Do you mind if we ask you a few questions about the conference?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We actually do, yes.
BERNSTEIN: Despite the financial crisis, congressional hearings and an $85 billion taxpayer funded bailout...
(on camera): Do you think this is an appropriate use of taxpayers money after the bailout?
(voice-over): AIG executives Larry Roth and Art Tambaro declined to talk.
(on camera): Mr. Tambaro, you were staying in one of the two- story townhouses, weren't you, one of the private villas?
(voice-over): A company spokesperson says it's part of a group rate at no additional cost. The spokesperson admits AIG is footing the bill, picking up the entire $343,000 tab, but expects 90 percent of the bill will be reimbursed by participating product sponsors.
The spokesperson confirms NFL legend Terry Bradshaw was scheduled to speak at the conference and get paid for signing autographs and taking pictures. But at the last second AIG decided to cancel the appearance, but Bradshaw will still get paid.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERNSTEIN: Lou, a spokesperson for AIG tells ABC 15 that Terry Bradshaw was being paid by a sponsor, not by AIG. And that both the executives flew round-trip, coach class.
DOBBS: Josh, first, an outstanding job of reporting and chasing those son of a guns down. I didn't see any real remorse or true embarrassment. Did you?
BERNSTEIN: Well, AIG maintains that this was a legitimate conference. That it was a training seminar for 150 independent financial planners who sell their products. That it was not just an AIG event. And that it only cost the company $23,000.
DOBBS: All right. Well, then, I guess we should all feel better about it. But, of course, we're going to have to verify that, and I'm sure they are going to be just eager to be forthcoming with all of that. Josh, terrific job of reporting -- thank you very much. Josh Bernstein.
Congressman Elijah Cummings wasn't amused. Today he called for AIG's CEO to resign. The congressman says it's simply outrageous that a company relying on taxpayer dollars to survive would organize such an event. AIG's CEO Edward Liddy today said conferences like the one in Phoenix are necessary to conduct business. He said AIG paid for only 10 percent of the cost of that conference.
Liddy said, quote, "I issued a directive to all AIG employees and subsidiaries to reduce expenses and conserve cash, including canceling all nonessential conferences or meetings. Since then we've canceled more than 160 events. We conducted a top-to-bottom review of all expenses of the Phoenix meeting in advance and found that it was consistent with my directive", end quote.
Well no wonder, no wonder that AIG only needed an additional $40 billion to survive this week. Edward Liddy, by the way, will be a guest on Larry King's show tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. Larry and the AIG CEO will talk about this controversy, all of that tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE," 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
Up next, Ted Turner, philanthropist, founder of this network and the author of the brand new book "Call Me Ted" will be my guest. I will be doing exactly that. I'll call him Ted and we'll talk about economics, the presidential election and my opinions.
And President-elect Obama already a supporter of amnesty for illegal aliens faces mounting pressure to further weaken immigration law enforcement in this country -- that report and more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Open borders, pro-amnesty advocates fiercely lobbying now the president-elect to immediately change immigration policy enforcement. On the campaign trail Obama pledged his support for amnesty and he blasted enforcement raids. But as Kitty Pilgrim now reports, the majority of Americans oppose amnesty for illegal aliens.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Barack Obama's position on immigration during the campaign was a calculated formula to draw Latino voters. He called for beefing up border security and enforcing existing immigration laws, but he also supported amnesty, saying immigration enforcement raids were, quote, "terrorizing communities".
OBAMA: They are counting on us to stop the hateful rhetoric filling our airwaves and rise above the fear and rise above the demagoguery and finally enact comprehensive immigration reform.
PILGRIM: But a new Zogby poll taken after the election, found fewer than a third of Obama supporters favor amnesty for illegal aliens. In fact, the majority of voters, 60 percent, said cracking down on employers of illegal aliens is important to them. Fifty-seven percent of voters said amnesty would harm American workers and further strain public resources. STEVEN CAMAROTA, CTR. FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: So, the question for Obama is -- is he going to want to own this issue? Is he going to go out on a limb and face all the public opposition to an amnesty approach?
PILGRIM: In Washington today, illegal alien advocacy groups are trying to put pressure on the new president-elect to stop immigration raids.
GREY TORRICO, FLORIDA IMMIGRANT COALITION: We as a collective saw the chance to give our country a new beginning. We voted because our future was at stake.
CHANG-WHA WONG, NEW YORK IMMIGRANT COALITION: Raids have been one of the more destructive aspects of our failed immigration reform and we must stop pretending that raids do anything other than separate families.
ANGELICA SALAS, COAL. FOR HUMANE IMMIG. RIGHTS: We ask President-elect Obama to make immigration reform a top domestic priority.
PILGRIM: Two-thirds of Latino voters supported Obama in the presidential election.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the pressure is building on this issue. When the new president takes office in January, rallies are planned, calling for a stop to immigration enforcement raids and to push for an amnesty plan in the first year of the new administration, Lou.
DOBBS: And two facts that are not often put forward in this debate by those amnesty advocates, open borders advocates, first that last year we had over a million new citizens naturalized in this country, over a million. There's no country in the world that comes close, and ignored in the debate, that those people are here, those -- legally, are not here as a result of public policy, but rather at the behest of -- of certain business elites led by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce demanding cheap labor to exploit.
PILGRIM: Yes.
DOBBS: It's truly -- it's just truly unspeakable that our public policies in this country are being debated without a direct, square look at the facts.
PILGRIM: It's certainly going to be a tough position for Obama as he moves forward into this year because it will not be an issue that will go away easily.
DOBBS: All right, thank you very much -- Kitty Pilgrim.
Gun dealers around the country are reporting an increase in their sales since Election Day, amid concerns that an Obama administration will move to restrict gun ownership. The FBI says more than a million firearms were sold in the month of October, an increase of 15 percent from a year ago, and during the campaign, President-elect Obama said he respected the Second Amendment, which allows Americans to own firearms. But as the state lawmaker in Illinois, the president-elect voted for several measures to restrict the sale of certain firearms.
Time now for some of your thoughts; Tony from Massachusetts says "Lou, I am dumbfounded by the crass behavior by the executives at AIG. Once again they have come to the U.S. taxpayers, hat in hand, to garner even more bailout money and then they head to Phoenix for a secret party which cost more than $350,000 of our money".
Gary from Pennsylvania "Before we start trimming all the pork from our diets in Washington maybe we should start by trimming the filet from AIG's diet that they seem to be enjoying at their retreats that is being bought with my money."
Barbara from Michigan "I need to know how they can take our hard earned money and give it away without accounting for where it is going. We can't afford to go to McDonald's but they can use our money for retreats, huge salaries and bonuses. Why isn't anyone going to jail?"
Well, that's a great question. Perhaps we'll soon have some answers. And we'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a couple of my book "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit" now available in paperback.
Up next, President Bush leading the nation in honoring and thanking our veterans today on the deck of the former aircraft carrier now air, sea and space museum "Intrepid". We'll have a live report from the decks of the "Intrepid."
And CNN founder and philanthropist Ted Turner joins me to talk about his candid new book "Call Me Ted". I'll be calling him Ted and maybe a few other things as well.
And President-elect Obama already having a powerful influence in Washington, 70 days before inauguration day, presidential historian Douglas Brinkley joins me next. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President-elect Obama is now 70 days from inauguration day, but he's already moving to exert influence in Washington. Joining me now is Douglas Brinkley, one of the country's foremost presidential historians, professor of history at Rice University in Houston, Texas. Good to have you with us.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, RICE UNIVERSITY: Great to be here.
DOBBS: The issue of the executive orders, John Podesta, is co- chairman of the transition group, saying that two issues, particularly on the mind of the president-elect, one the issue of offshore drilling for natural gas and oil and the other stem cell research. Is it unusual to be hearing so much about what a president-elect will be doing once he is inaugurated at this early stage?
BRINKLEY: It is unusual, Lou. Everything's been unusual about 2008. You know, it's only been a week that Barack Obama has been president-elect; it seems like a month there's so much activity going on.
I think what they're trying to do with the Obama administration, start pointing out some clear divot spots where they're going to deviate from the Bush administration, things like Guantanamo, things that, no, we're not going to for drilling around parks. I wouldn't be surprised in the coming year if you see someplace like ANWR in Alaska turn from being a wildlife refuge run by U.S. fish and wildlife to turned over to be a national monument where you couldn't drill and that's because you're going to have to do some things sort of on the cheap. You're not going to be able to do the great climate-control projects you might, so you might try to do some things that will show that you have environmental stripes. Certainly Pelosi's going to be pushing for that.
DOBBS: Right, a very liberal leadership for this democratic congress, but at the same time, Doug, while gasoline's at $2.11 or $2 a gallon around the country, after being, well, double that this summer, it's one thing to have that kind of policy exertion, it would be another if we were to see a return to higher energy prices, wouldn't it?
BRINKLEY: It would. And I think that's going to be the challenge. Where do you make up the oil if you put ANWR away as a national monument, if you decide not to do a major drilling project in the gulf, where do you get the oil? It's either trade in the Middle East or increased productivity with Venezuela, right now we don't an ambassador in Caracas.
DOBBS: And all of these discussions that have been had now and so little frankly during the campaign, which is remarkable given that it was 20 months long, but the discussion as to whether this will be a left-of-center, a liberal government, as well as a liberal president. These seem to be open-ended questions. What's your take and why are we having the discussion only now?
BRINKLEY: Well, that's a good point. Because Obama was very clever to be a blank slate to kind of let people have their -- paint their dreams on him, if you'd like. I think now what we're looking at and people are waiting, which Obama is it? Is it the team of rivals Obama who keeps somebody like Gates as secretary of defense, who brings in Colin Powell and Hagel? Maybe Lugar if he can be persuaded, maybe Volcker at treasury? Will he be reaching across the aisle to that degree, or is he saying this is a kind of mini great society, that this was a mandate that not since the '60s with Lyndon Johnson were the opportunities so right to do a lot of social re-engineering? And people are going to be looking at these appointments, right now because it's been just, you know, a Podesta and Rahm Emanuel pick, they're both Clintonites, people are thinking maybe he's taking that triangulation route. I think he'll lean to the left of the party. He owes Ted Kennedy a lot for his enforcement and people like Reid Pelosi were the real Obama supporters, not centrist democrats. DOBBS: And your take right now, as we are watching this congress, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, obviously trying to drive the president-elect in a very specific policy direction. Are we seeing what could be the beginning of a contest of power?
BRINKLEY: Well, it could be. I think the democrats are smart enough to say, look, this is our big moment. We've got to unify. We've got the dream candidate, not just a candidate of a decade, but really of a lifetime in Barack Obama. Due to his skills at communicating. And I think they'll mobilize around him. What you'll do, I believe, is see Obama do something to galvanize this reputation of change already. I think Guantanamo's going to be one. He's going to say I'm not for torture. John McCain's even on his side on this.
DOBBS: All right.
BRINKLEY: He'll make the -- and he'll get a lot of --
DOBBS: As is most of America.
BRINKLEY: As is most of America and he'll be applauded for those kind of gestures which don't cost a lot of money. The ANWR scenario of returning from refuge to monument doesn't cost the money. The money's not there. The money's going for the bailout of general motors and ford.
DOBBS: Douglas Brinkley, thank you very much. Professor of history at Rice University.
Up next on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, this nation honors its veterans. We'll have a special report from the deck of the "Intrepid," an aircraft carrier that now serves as a floating museum. Air, sea, and space.
And philanthropist, Ted Turner, the founder of CNN, yachtsman, joins me here next, we'll talk about his any memoir "Call Me Ted" and he'll be talking about his opinion of my opinion and his opinion of my opinion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, Ted Turner is an American success story, an entrepreneur who stepped away from business to become one of the world's leading philanthropists. The television pioneer and founder of CNN joins me now. He's got a brand new book out. It's called "Call Me Ted." It's just been published.
And Ted and I were with just kind of reminiscing, because I was one of those folks fortunate enough to be on the first list of employees when we started CNN. It's hard to believe it's been 28 years.
TED TURNER, CNN FOUNDER: Sure is.
DOBBS: Well, you've made a couple of dollars over that period of time. TURNER: A lot. A lot more. And given away a lot more.
DOBBS: Well, you've done all of the above. You've lived life about as large as it can be lived, I believe, and you've lived it pretty darn well. And yet there are a lot of folks who will sit there and they kind of criticize you, and I keep thinking back. Because you criticized me recently, it was brought to my attention...
TURNER: I didn't!
DOBBS: That's what I was told. And I keep thinking back to one of your expressions. And you may not remember this, but you once told us -- you were getting criticized and you said, you know, every dog's got his fleas. And, you know, I think that's a pretty good way to look at life.
TURNER: And it reminds him that's what he is. Fleas are good for a dog, because they remind him that that's what he is.
DOBBS: Exactly.
TURNER: My father taught me that.
DOBBS: Absolutely. And you know what, I would say you prevailed. You prevailed over the management that ousted you from Time Warner. You prevailed in cable, as the pioneer who changed the direction. Is there anything that you want to do that you haven't done?
TURNER: I wanted to win the NBA championship, but I don't have a basketball team anymore, so I don't guess that will ever happen.
DOBBS: Yes, that's kind of a requisite for that.
TURNER: You know, I had to think about that. I haven't thought -- oh, yes, I'd like to see nuclear disarmament and a new energy regime of clean, renewable, locally produced energy. I'm a subscriber to the Pickens plan.
DOBBS: Right.
TURNER: I'm a friend of Boone Pickens' too. Don't you like his program?
DOBBS: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's brilliant work (ph).
TURNER: You don't think we ought to bail out General Motors, do you?
DOBBS: Do I think we should? Absolutely.
TURNER: Do you think we should?
DOBBS: Absolutely.
TURNER: How much should we give them? $30 billion now and $30 billion every month from now on?
DOBBS: There's $25 billion on the table, but before we step off the issue...
TURNER: OK.
DOBBS: No, no, you're doing good.
TURNER: It's your show, not mine.
DOBBS: You're doing good. You're doing good. But you made it possible, Ted, so we're going to defer.
But Boone Pickens will actually be here tomorrow.
TURNER: Good. Well, tell him I said hi.
DOBBS: I'll do it. I'll do it.
TURNER: I spent a weekend with him a couple of months ago.
DOBBS: Why would you not want to bail out an industry that's essential to national security, that has directly and indirectly employment impact of several millions?
TURNER: They've been so stupid. I mean, I knew 10 years ago that they were going to go broke, building those big cars. They needed to read the news. If they would have watched CNN about what was happening to oil supplies, they would have realized that they needed to start building small cars.
DOBBS: Ted, I'm not going to argue that they haven't made stupid mistakes. But you know what?
TURNER: And they are so far in the hole that, you know, AIG, didn't we just give them another $40 billion? And it's only been 60 days that we gave them the last $100 billion, right?
DOBBS: You know, those burn rates get out of control.
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: That's exactly right. And the auto industry is in a big, deep hole. If we're going to spend some money, let's put up windmills and solar panels with that money, and rebuild our electricity grid and prepare for the future, instead of pouring money down into a rat hole that's associated with the past.
DOBBS: What about...
TURNER: Big cars are a thing of the past. Gone.
DOBBS: Well, I mean, come on, I mean, they're -- Detroit, I'm not going to sit here and defend Detroit for a bunch of mistakes, but the fact is, they are coming out with all sorts of cars that are going to be electric, they're hybrid, they're flex fuel... TURNER: Why didn't they do it 20 years ago?
DOBBS: Well, you know, the same reason...
TURNER: They say that. They haven't -- they don't have a legitimate hybrid yet, and they don't -- and they don't have an electric car that works either.
DOBBS: The problem with talking to me, Ted, is I go back, too. And I remember when you needed a little financial help.
TURNER: And I don't want to see the auto industry -- I'm just mad as hell, like you remember the Peter Finch character in "Network..."
DOBBS: You bet.
TURNER: ... who said, throw the windows open, and say I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to underwrite losing companies anymore.
CNN, we struggled. We sweated every payroll for 20 years, but we never went to the government and asked for any money.
DOBBS: No, but you had to get some help from your partners.
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: I know, but our partners...
DOBBS: That's a bailout of a kind.
TURNER: That -- it wasn't a bailout, it was an investment in the free enterprise system. It was a capitalist system, not a socialistic...
DOBBS: I hear you. Well, if you want to ask me do I think we should have gone -- started down this road, that's another question. But since we are and Hank Paulson...
TURNER: Well, how far do we go?
DOBBS: ... decided -- you tell me.
TURNER: No, you tell me. You're the big expert. You're the man that knows everything and has an opinion about everything.
DOBBS: Well, no, you're the fellow that's the mouth of the South, Captain Outrageous...
TURNER: That was a long time ago.
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: You're the mouth of the world.
DOBBS: I remember you laying out a program for missile deployment, for crying out loud.
What made you write this book?
TURNER: I just figured it was -- there was an interesting story to tell, and that people would get some enjoyment and maybe learn something from it.
DOBBS: Well, I think you're...
TURNER: Like integrity, for instance. That's something that has been sadly lacking in a lot of -- of our business dealings here in this country. But one thing, you know, I may have lost billions, but -- but I never did anything that was, you know, that was dishonest or immoral.
DOBBS: And as somebody who -- and a lot of folks don't know this -- but I sat on the executive committee for about -- almost 15 years...
TURNER: That's right.
DOBBS: And I can tell you for a fact, that is true. And the other part of it is, you lost $9 billion and you didn't whine about it.
TURNER: No.
DOBBS: And that's pretty commendable, too.
TURNER: I was just going to give it away anyway.
DOBBS: Well, that's true, too, and you're still giving it away. And you still got this Montana Grill, Ted's Montana Grill, you making money there?
TURNER: Not making money. We were right at break-even before the economy turned south.
Really, if we're going to bail out industries, we need to bail out the restaurant industry, too, because everybody's suffering in the restaurant industry, too.
DOBBS: Well, there you go.
TURNER: Sales are down because people are staying home.
DOBBS: And what about folks with -- four million folks facing the prospect of foreclosure? That's who I want to bail out. That's what I recommended last year.
TURNER: Well, let's bail them out rather than General Motors. I'd rather do that.
DOBBS: Well, all right...
TURNER: Bail out the middle class. DOBBS: We've got your vote.
Now, tell me about this stuff you didn't like. I heard from friends of our friends that you don't like the fact that I give opinions.
TURNER: I don't like -- I don't like that you are so mean and nasty to the illegal immigrants.
DOBBS: I'm mean and nasty. What have I ever said mean and nasty about an illegal alien?
TURNER: It's just the way you look.
DOBBS: It's the way I look?
TURNER: Yeah, you look angry at them.
DOBBS: Well, you look...
TURNER: I can look that way, but with me, it's just a joke. With you, it looks real.
DOBBS: Now, Ted, you can fool some of the folks, but you can't fool me. When you look that way, you mean business.
TURNER: I mean business?
DOBBS: Absolutely. Now, when you say that...
TURNER: I'm still your friend, Lou.
DOBBS: I know you are. And I'm still yours.
TURNER: We go back.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: But when you say I say mean things, yeah, but you say I say mean things about illegal aliens...
TURNER: Run the tape. I didn't say anything mean about you.
DOBBS: You said I looked...
TURNER: I said you didn't have a lot of humor in your program, and I was on the Letterman show at the time.
DOBBS: Let's show that. Let's show that.
TURNER: OK, let's see it.
DOBBS: Let's roll that.
TURNER: Let's see what the viewers think.
DOBBS: Let's roll what you just said.
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: Somebody to give us a message or something (inaudible) Internet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TURNER: I think you laugh too much on this show.
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: Well, I'm always...
TURNER: I'm only kidding! People don't laugh enough.
LETTERMAN: OK.
TURNER: There's not enough laughs on CNN, I can tell you.
LETTERMAN: Tell me about your...
TURNER: You ever watch Lou Dobbs?
(LAUGHTER)
TURNER: It's not funny, is it?
LETTERMAN: Well, not now, no.
TURNER: That's one thing you can be sure of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: All right.
TURNER: You can't take that as an insult.
DOBBS: All right. If I can't, then I won't.
TURNER: Good.
DOBBS: If you're going to be like that.
TURNER: That's right.
DOBBS: But the fact of the matter is, when you said that I am too serious about illegal aliens or whatever, you know...
TURNER: They've got to go somewhere.
DOBBS: Well, that's true...
TURNER: Where do you want them to go?
DOBBS: Well, you tell me.
TURNER: It's so much easier to go from the United States -- from Mexico to...
DOBBS: I'm going to ask you again...
TURNER: ... it's pretty hard for them to get to China.
DOBBS: Well...
TURNER: They don't have enough money for the ticket.
DOBBS: What about the illegal aliens from China?
TURNER: What about them? What, we got some of them, too?
DOBBS: Oh, yes, sir.
TURNER: How about from Canada? That's what worries me.
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: You got a 3,000-mile border up there. And it's -- why don't we build a wall up there, too?
DOBBS: How many miles?
TURNER: I don't like walls.
DOBBS: You don't like walls?
TURNER: I remember we had a president, whom we all admired, who said, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." Now we're building a wall against Mexico, and the Israelis are building one against the Palestinians. And I've seen it, too, and I don't like them.
I think we need a world without walls, where people can go back and forth if they want to. I don't believe they ought to be -- stay here illegally, but we're making it hard for Mexican tourists to come here and visit America and spend their good, hard-earned pesos here to help our economy.
DOBBS: So you don't believe illegal aliens should stay here either, then?
TURNER: I don't think -- we should have some kind of other system where they're not illegal if they're going to stay here.
DOBBS: Well, I'm going to take that as you and I are in agreement on that.
TURNER: But we are.
DOBBS: I want to go back to this issue...
TURNER: Basically, we agree about most things.
DOBBS: Well, we do. But you said...
TURNER: We worked together for 26 years. If we'd have really disagreed, one of us would have quit.
DOBBS: Well, oops...
TURNER: And I can tell you who it would have been, for the first 20. For the last six, it's been me.
DOBBS: Well, it isn't exactly the way either one of us...
TURNER: I couldn't figure out who got me, and now I know it was you.
DOBBS: It was me, I got you. Now, you know who got you, and you know his name was Jerry Levin, right?
TURNER: I guess, but I don't know why.
DOBBS: I don't either.
TURNER: (inaudible), he's got a chapter in the book, too.
DOBBS: I bet that ought to be a beauty.
TURNER: I think you've got one, too.
DOBBS: Absolutely. I would...
TURNER: You're in there, uncensored.
DOBBS: That's the way it ought to be, especially on this broadcast.
Ted Turner, I wish we had time to talk about a whole bunch of other stuff.
TURNER: Well, let's do it sometime.
DOBBS: How about -- you're trying to move a book....
TURNER: And also, I'm trying to get rid of nuclear weapons and get the atmosphere straightened out, and climate change, and...
DOBBS: Can I just say just one thing? By the way, Ted isn't -- just for those of you who don't know, when Ted talks about nuclear disarmament, nonproliferation, starts talking about taking borders -- eliminating borders and walls, it isn't anything new. In the early '80s, he came up with something called the Goodwill Games, believe it or not, right after the Soviet Union had boycotted the Olympics and created the...
TURNER: The U.S. boycotted them first, if you recall. Carter...
DOBBS: That's right...
TURNER: ...boycotted the Moscow Olympics, and then they boycotted the next time, the Los Angeles Olympics. DOBBS: And as a result, the Soviet Union collapsed, as a result of the Goodwill Games. I want to write history that way. Can I do that?
TURNER: I don't think that's the case, but I do think it helped end the Cold War. I'm sure it did.
DOBBS: Yeah, I think -- I'll tell you one thing...
TURNER: You were there.
DOBBS: I was there. I went to the games, and furthermore, I was privileged to do so, and I'm privileged to have you here tonight. It's good to see you, partner.
TURNER: Good to see you, Lou. Give Debbie my love.
DOBBS: I'll do it and I'll keep, by the way, I'm going to keep giving my independent opinion. Is that all right?
TURNER: It's OK.
DOBBS: All right. Ted, thanks. The book is "Call Me Ted." It's a great one.
TURNER: Thank you.
And coming up at the top of the hour, Campbell Brown, "No Bias, No Bull" with that title you couldn't have me or Ted on your show. What are you working on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Come on. We've got a lot for you, Lou. Along with the country's economic woes, Barack Obama as you well now, inheriting another deadlier burden and in a few minutes we'll take a no bias, no promise to win Afghanistan, get out of Iraq, and finally to find Osama Bin Laden. The war for control of the Republican Party is already underway. We'll talk to one of the people whose name is being tossed around as a possible leader, even a presidential candidate, and in our political daily briefing, which member of the Bush family may be about to get a bundle of money and why. We'll explain, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Campbell. A reminder, on the radio Monday through Friday, tomorrow's guests include a discussion of walls and borders and other stuff that Ted doesn't like. Go to loudobbs.com to get your local listings. Up next the rededication of the famous aircraft carrier Intrepid as we honor our heroes, all our heroes serving this nation in uniform on this Veterans Day. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The famous, historic, much loved world war ii aircraft carrier the Intrepid is back home this veterans day. After a two- year, multimillion dollar restoration, the floating museum is now docked at its home berth in New York City. Today President Bush honored our veterans with a special rededication ceremony on the Intrepid.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pomp and ceremony welcomed home the Intrepid. It was a fitting return for a ship of her stature. She was christened in 1943 in the thick of World War II. She survived attacks by kamikaze planes.
FELIX NOVELLI, USS INTREPID 1944-1946: The kamikaze, the skies were blackened with kamikaze. They tried like hell to sink her.
TUCKER: She led the way to victory in the pacific. For 31 years, the Intrepid actively served carrying men and planes into combat and rescuing astronauts from the sea. In the '80s, she retired to become a floating museum, a museum that eventually became mired in mud and then it was the Intrepid's turn to be rescued. Towed to dry dock two years ago, she was refurbished and returned back to home berth New York in time to honor and be honored.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has a new dress on.
BILL WHITE, INTREPID MUSEUM FOUNDATION: The Intrepid is a symbol. It's a ship. Within the ship is the soul of these men who saved it and that's the lesson of today's day. How 3,000 guys got together and saved this ship from five kamikaze attacks.
TUCKER: A message of inspiration and honor.
GENERAL JIM CONWAY, COMMANDANT OF THE USMC: Today we honor all our children's, those who have gone before, those who have served, and those who wear the uniform.
TUCKER: It's a day to say "thank you."
PRES. GEORGE BUSH, UNITED STATES: These noble Americans are our sons and daughters. They are our fathers and mothers. They are our family and they are our friends. They leave home to do the work of patriots and they lead lives of quiet dignity when they return. Today we send a clear message to all who have worn the uniform, thank you for your courage. Thank you for your sacrifice. And thank you for standing up when your nation needed you most.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And, Lou, here tonight in NEW YORK CITY all around the city a number of buildings and bridges, buildings such as the empire state building, are lit up in red, white, and blue this evening, Lou. At 11:00 those lights will go off for an hour and remain off until midnight when they come back on in honor of the men and women who served and gave their lives in service of their country. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Bill. It's wonderful to have the Intrepid back in her berth. It's a great day to not only honor our veterans but also to say very simply thank you. Up next here the results of our poll and a few more of your thoughts. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight's poll results. 86 percent of you did take the opportunity today to acknowledge our nation's veterans. If you haven't, it's still not too late. Go to our website, loudobbs.com and find a number of ways to do just that. Thank you for honoring our veterans.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Tim in California, "We need to work on making these government officials accountable for throwing our money around like it's water. $2 trillion? Are you kidding me?" Unfortunately, I'm not. And I'm not kidding when I say that the Federal Reserve refuses to tell anyone how they spent your money.
Well, Butch in Illinois said, "Why is it that we bail out the people that made this mess? Are we supposed to believe that these same people will fix the problem?" That's an excellent point but that is precisely what I suppose we're expected to believe.
And Kevin from California, "Last week we converted our garage to a bank. I could use some help. Where does the line for the bailout start?"
We love hearing from you and we thank you for being with us tonight. From all of us here, good night from New York. Thanks for watching.
