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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bailout or Bust; Help for Homeowners; Toxic Toys Still on Shelves; Advantage for Foreign Automakers
Aired December 04, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf. Tonight lawmakers skeptical of Detroit's request for even more bailout money, some $34 billion. The Big Three now asking for that money to keep them afloat. We'll have complete coverage.
And tonight help finally may be on the way for middle-class homeowners, at least some. A Treasury plan would push mortgage interest rates down as low as 4.5 percent. We'll see what the Treasury decides to do. We'll have the latest for you.
And tonight Mexican drug cartel violence is raging out of control spreading to the United States as well. We'll have a report. I'll be talking with two journalists from "Newsweek" magazine reporting extensively on the border drug war threatening this country; all of that, all the day's news, and much more from an independent perspective straight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Thursday, December 4th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. This time the Big Three CEOs drove to Washington or were driven to Washington to make their case to Congress for more federal money. And they upped the amount of federal help they want now from 25 a billion to $34 billion.
Some lawmakers, however, aren't convinced Detroit could survive even with more taxpayer money. Meanwhile, the Treasury finally deciding it's time perhaps to help American homeowners. It's considering now a plan that could drop mortgage interest rates to as low as 4.5 percent. Dana Bash has our report from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With choreography for the cameras, the Big Three CEOs returned to Capitol Hill in fuel-efficient cars instead of pricey private jets. Lesson learned when it comes to public relations. Determined to convince weary lawmakers they learned bigger lessons about restructuring their struggling companies.
RICK WAGONER, GENERAL MOTORS CEO: We're here today because we made mistakes which we're learning from.
ALAN MULALLY, FORD CEO: It used to be that our approach to our customers was if you build it, they will come. Now we are aggressively matching production to meet the true customer demand. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've identified approximately $4 billion of potential cost-savings and improvement.
BASH: The CEOs came armed with new business plans that Congress demanded promises to consolidate and modernize concessions from auto workers unions to help cut costs. But skepticism that taxpayer money would be well spent in Detroit is still deep.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I don't trust the car companies' leadership. I worry that if they're left on their own, they'll be back a short time later asking for more.
BASH: Executives expanded the rescue request to $34 billion. One panelist warned an auto turnaround could eventually cost 75 to $125 billion. Republican Richard Shelby who opposes any bailout pounced on that.
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: If they got the 34 billion, how long will it be before they're back here in your judgment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it will be...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six months?
MARK ZANDI, MOODY'SECONOMY.COM: No. It will be fall, late, '09.
SHELBY: But they'll certainly be back, won't they?
ZANDI: I think that's a high probability.
BASH: The committee's top Democrat told CEOs he still has a lot of unanswered questions, but also warned colleagues that doing nothing would be playing Russian roulette with the economy.
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: I'm not a miracle worker. No one is here. But we're not going to -- I'm not going to pack a bag and leave and go back to Connecticut. I'm going to stay here and try and get this done.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: But even those who want to help the automakers are still deeply divided over how to do that, still specifically over where the money should come from, and tonight the Democratic leaders are sending a letter over to the White House, to President Bush, urging him once again to use part of the $700 billion that they already passed for Wall Street, and the Democrats are saying that they believe that if Detroit failed that that actually could hurt the financial sector, kind of a new twist on an argument they've been using for some time.
But Lou, I talked to the White House tonight and they insist that their argument has not changed. They adamantly oppose using that money, so again, still divided no matter what kind of argument that the automakers are making -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well how about if I offer a Solomon-like solution for the -- for Congress and the president? Why don't they have the august (ph) Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson go over to the White House and they all work together to tell the banks that they've loaned all of that money to and given all of that money to, to lend that money to Ford, to General Motors, and Chrysler? Then everybody -- and the taxpayer is watching that money actually move into the system and things are starting to happen. That's a positive thing. It's interesting that they haven't thought of that, isn't it, Dana?
BASH: It certainly is. A version of that was mentioned by one of the senators. Not quite that, but a version of that was mentioned in the hearing today. But you know I think that sort of speaks to, again, this deep divide here and really an unwillingness not just among the White House but among Republicans here to use that money, even if it is the government using it or telling Wall Street that they should direct that money to the auto industry.
DOBBS: It seems to me less a divide, Dana, than an abyss of which the Senate, the House, and the president are all looking into at the same time and trying to figure out how to avoid it. But unfortunately there is very little innovation here.
There's very little thinking that is energized or innovative right now, and that is -- that's concerning all in and of itself. Dana, thank you very much. And, of course, the three CEOs from Detroit will be before the House Financial Services Committee tomorrow chaired by Congressman Barney Frank.
Well members of the Senate Banking Committee today also questioned the auto CEOs about where the money would be spent if Congress were to approve that $34 billion in additional money. Senator Jon Tester pressed GM CEO Rick Wagoner for assurances that bailout money would be spent in this country and not overseas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON TESTER (D), MONTANA: I don't want to give American taxpayer dollars to somebody who's going to invest it in some other country than this country. That's been a problem.
WAGONER: Sir, let me just be clear. No funding that comes out of this would go to fund the facility overseas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Wagoner also said that he would look into rumors as he put it that GM is planning an expansion of its operations in Mexico. Wagoner said he would report back to the committee. We'll report back to you as well right here on this broadcast.
To put this bailout plea by Detroit's carmakers in some context, we thought you might appreciate that because it's pretty hard to stay up with all of this. The $34 billion that they're now asking for could easily buy all of General Motors, all of Ford, and Chrysler combined and guess what?
If Congress wanted to do it they could spend that $34 billion, buy all three companies and double the money for the investors. But, of course, even that would be generous because sales at the Big Three are plunging, but by Chrysler where sales are down almost 50 percent compared to a year ago.
Struggling homeowners, on the other hand, are seeing no relief at all. An estimated 2.25 million homes will be going into foreclosure this year. That's more than double last year and still homeowners have received comparatively little from that $750 billion federal bailout money.
Mortgage interest rates did fall today as the federal government finally started considering new moves to bring some relief to American homeowners faced with foreclosure. The Treasury is now considering a plan to buy mortgage-backed securities to drive mortgage interest rates to 4.5 percent. Lisa Sylvester has our report on this late consideration by the Treasury Department.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of foreclosures continues to rise, up five percent in October from the month before, according to the research firm RealtyTrac. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke says jumpstarting the housing market is key to solving the country's economic challenges.
BEN BERNANKE, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: Despite good-faith efforts by both the private and public sectors, the foreclosure rate remains too high with adverse consequences for both those directly involved and for the broader economy. More needs to be done.
SYLVESTER: The Treasury Department is considering a new plan to stabilize the U.S. housing market by using Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to drive down interest rates to as low as 4.5 percent for 30-year fixed mortgage. Secretary Henry Paulson has been criticized by members of Congress and housing groups for pumping billions of dollars into U.S. banks while not providing enough relief to Main Street.
SHARON PRICE, NATIONAL HOUSING CONFERENCE: The banks are kind of sitting on their money like it's going to hatch and they hadn't been lending it, so now the goal here is to get the banks lending.
SYLVESTER: FDIC Chairwoman Sheila Bair has offered a plan that would go even further than what Treasury has proposed. It would grant new incentives to bank to modify home loans headed for foreclosure, but Secretary Paulson has been reluctant to use part of the $700 billion to grant homeowner relief telling Congress, that's, quote, "different than the original investment intent." Bair told CNN loan modifications could potentially save 1.5 million homes from foreclosure.
SHEILA BAIR, CHAIRPERSON, FDIC: I've been in Washington for a long time. And why we haven't been able to garner the political world to tackle this problem more aggressively at the borrower level has been somewhat mystifying to me.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SYLVESTER: Now many lawmakers say there has not been enough transparency or oversight with the $700 billion bailout program. The law called for a special inspector general to oversee the program. But as we reported yesterday, a senator had placed a secret hold on the nomination of the man tapped for that post, Neil Borski (ph). Today that loan senator quietly lifted the hold so a vote can proceed next week. Lou?
DOBBS: Yes, do we know who that lone senator is?
SYLVESTER: We don't. Whoever it was, it was an anonymous hold. We do know that it was a Republican senator, though, because it was the Republican side that basically said this vote cannot proceed, but that's all we know at this point.
DOBBS: Well let me whisper something to that Republican senator who has been holding that up. You're a coward and you really ought to apologize to the American people and the folks who need help right away. There is no room for this kind of politics at this point in this country, Lisa, as you've been reporting on this.
I mean that kind of hold, by the way, is archaic. It should be disbanded from the Senate rules altogether anyway. The idea that one person can do that in the Augusta (ph) Senate is absurd. It is interesting that Sheila Bair has been at the forefront of coming up with rational and innovative approaches to dealing with the issue of homeownership and those middle-class families who are faced with devastating foreclosure as long as -- along with other who are aspiring to the middle class, for crying out loud. She's got to be immensely frustrated.
SYLVESTER: Well, I'm sure that she is. In fact, she has said as much. And you know, she said that it's mystifying was the word that she used to why that they weren't attacking this on the borrower level. This started because of home foreclosures, but you have not really seen the help for those people who are facing foreclosures. Money so far has gone to the banks and the CEOs of those banks.
DOBBS: And we can only hope that there's going to be a little change in the approach here. But it's not encouraging at this point, I would say. Lisa, thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
We're going go be talking with someone who early on was talking about an appropriate response, an institutional response to this crisis. We're going to be joined by Bill Isaac (ph), the former chairman of the FDIC here later in the broadcast.
Well adding to the struggles of middle-class families, companies this week are slashing tens of thousands of jobs. AT&T saying it will cut 12,000 workers, DuPont, Credit Suisse, and Viacom and NBC also announcing thousands more layoffs. So far this year corporations have cut more than 1.2 million jobs.
The number of people in this country now using food stamps is also soaring. The food stamp program helps needy Americans buy food of course and more than 31.5 a million people now using food stamps. That was the number in September. It has risen 17 percent from a year ago.
Food stamp recipients must be employed or looking for work. They must prove a financial need and they must be a citizen or legal immigrant, but the Center for Immigration Studies says illegal aliens can benefit from the program if they live in a household with at least one U.S. citizen qualified to receive those food stamps.
Up next, religion under fire tonight in our nation's capital as political correctness wins out over again common sense. Senator Jim DeMint joins us.
Also brutal Mexican drug cartel violence, it's spreading to this side of the border. We'll be talking with two journalists about their disturbing new report in "Newsweek" magazine "Blood Shed on the Border".
And thousands of toxic toys still lining store shelves in this country. Why does the federal government refuse to do its job? We'll have that report and a great deal more up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Alarming new evidence tonight of the Consumer Product Safety Commission's complete failure to protect our children from dangerous toys. A disturbing new report finds one out of every three toys on store shelves this Christmas shopping season is contaminated with toxic chemicals. Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Using a special type of x-ray device researchers in Michigan say they have turned up medium or high levels of lead, cadmium, chlorine, arsenic, mercury and tin in one out of every three toys on the shelves today at major retailers. The results of those tests are on the Web site healthytoys.org.
JEFF GEARHEART, HEALTHYTOYS.ORG: Unfortunately it's really difficult to do this testing on your own. The testing devices we use cost tens of thousands of dollars. Individual product tests are very expensive. So it is a wholesale problem. We really need to have government work here and not just bend the rules every time the toy industry comes to them with a complaint.
PILGRIM: The Toy Industry Association today issued a response to the report saying "Healthytoys.org's statement is misleading to consumers at best. Healthytoys.org's statement fully admits the testing method they use is only good for screening purposes."
The Toy Industry Association also says the Consumer Product Safety Commission is finding fewer problems over the last year, but Public Citizen is suing the government agency over what it sees as a dangerous loophole in the ban of a chemical called foliates (ph). That ban is supposed to go into effect February 10th.
JOAN CLAYBROOK, PUBLIC CITIZEN: They've just issued a legal opinion for the industry which says that they can't manufacture after February 10th, 2009, but they can continue to sell. The public doesn't understand that and that's in violation of the law. The agency has an obligation to protect the public. That's why it's created. And instead what it's doing is protecting the industry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now the Consumer Product Safety Commission today responded that Congress enacted the law to set up new standards, but it allows the products with foliates (ph) to be sold after February 10th. So this Christmas and well after, toxic toys will still be on the shelves, Lou.
DOBBS: Has anybody ever marched on the Consumer Product -- I mean just walk in, tell the top people you know that the American people would really -- I mean I can't even -- what do you do with criminals like that? I mean there's not a law against them, but every moral and ethical standard of this country demands that they get out of those jobs and let somebody in who cares about this country and our people.
PILGRIM: You know it is outrageous. They say it's not a new ban. It just sets new standards. So you can sell anything that's already...
DOBBS: What are they -- that legalistic nonsense...
PILGRIM: It's entirely legalistic and children are at risk at this point.
DOBBS: You know how many people are still on that commission?
PILGRIM: Actually I'm not sure.
DOBBS: Let's find out. I want their names up. I mean I really -- and I'd like -- any one of you who has the guts to come here and I won't even ask but one question and you can have five minutes right here to explain your conduct in office and why in the world you're not protecting the American people.
If you've got the guts -- I know you haven't got the moral principle, but if you've got the guts and the sheer audacity and can sleep at night doing what you're doing, you ought to have the guts to come here, sit at that -- sit right there where Kitty is and tell the American people -- explain yourself. Thank you very much, Kitty -- Kitty Pilgrim.
Time now for our poll; do you think the Consumer Product Safety Commission is protecting your interests or the interests of the toy industry? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.
Up next Mexico's drug war is spilling over to the United States. We'll have a special report. We'll be joined by two journalists on the front lines of the drug war, their reporting highly important and timely. Carmakers in this country pushing for a government bailout, other countries are already subsidizing their car companies. Is that fair trade? Are we catching up? Are we falling back? Is it -- is there any chance in the world we're going to start making sense out of this economy? We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We've got some good news, crude oil prices again plunging -- plunging today to the lowest level in four years. Crude oil prices down more than $3 today, down to $43.67 a barrel, in fact. That's more than $100 a barrel less than the record high set back in July, 147 bucks.
Well, carmaker CEOs making a second trip to Congress to get some more money from our lawmakers. But carmakers in other countries don't have to beg for help. They're already subsidized by their government. The French government routinely protects its industry, creating yet another uneven playing field for American business. They don't play fair at all. Bill Tucker reports on how we play.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): French President Sarkozy made a simple declaration in announcing subsidies to Renault (ph) and Peugeot (ph). Quote, "the state is ready to do everything to save the automobile industry."
The French government will provide a billion dollar line of credit to support the automakers' financial services, more than $300 million in state aid for research and development and incentives for consumers to buy new energy-efficient cars. That's on top of already providing government health care insurance which is provided by the state in many European countries. In most global markets foreign automakers hold a distinct advantage over America's Big Three.
ERIC MAYNE, WARDSAUTO.COM: There's definitely a greater appetite for government involvement in other regions than there is here. In the U.S. it's part of our character. We're stridently opposed to any sort of direct government action even at a time of crisis like this.
TUCKER: Research and development is government-funded in Japan. Brazil supports its auto industry with subsidies and extending a credit line of some $2 billion in October. The European Union charges a tax on imported autos and several European countries are considering a bailout of European automakers.
In China much of the auto industry is state-owned. And foreign automakers are not allowed entry into the market unless they partner with a Chinese company. Sweden is considering R&D support of its auto industry.
SCOTT PAUL, ALLIANCE FOR AMERICAN MFG.: So at every level when we deal with economic incentives, when we deal with trade, when we deal with health care, or when we even deal with the attitude of the government, the Big Three are not playing on an even playing field. TUCKER: And that competition is not limited to foreign countries.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, in fact, earlier this week we reported on the billions of dollars provided to foreign carmakers by the states. The states have decided foreign automakers are so important to their local economies that they had to bid against each other to creating tax subsidies and tax breaks, to lure the transplants to their state to build cars, provide paychecks, and Lou, produce business in the state.
DOBBS: Well it's kind of -- it's kind of fun to see the United States sort of struggle with reality. It would be a lot more fun, of course, if we had any sense of reality and had any sense of what to do with it.
TUCKER: Right.
DOBBS: But to look at what we have done, public policy in this country, to subsidize foreign carmakers, to punish our carmakers, to have a big discussion about $25 billion in aid, look, I'm against bailouts as you know. I mean I -- from the very beginning I've been opposed to bailouts of any kind, but when it comes to this one, I'm for it. You know why? Because this is a cheap one, it's cheap, $34 lousy billion against $8.5 trillion we've thrown at the problem.
TUCKER: Right.
DOBBS: Why and they actually create jobs there in Detroit and you know, it's going to cost a lot more. This is an installment plan. First there was 25 billion, now there's 34 billion. There's going to be another, what 50 - 100 billion. But good grief, why not just do something intelligent for a change in this country in terms of our industrial policy?
TUCKER: That's so practical maybe, Lou, nobody in Washington ever thought about it.
DOBBS: Well I'm sure somebody did because there are lots of just terrifically brilliant people in that town. Thanks a lot. Bill Tucker. Golly. It's hard to even imagine this is happening.
Up next, religious traditions under fire, political correctness, it's all the rage in Washington, D.C. One of our lawmakers says enough. Senator Jim DeMint joins us.
Also is help on the way for homeowners? The former head of the FDIC joins me to talk about how to solve this mess.
And Mexico claiming progress in its war with the drug cartels, we unfortunately tonight will be showing you considerable evidence to the contrary. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion. Here again Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Welcome back. The Mexican government tonight claiming it is cutting cartel link murders and kidnappings along our shared border, but the evidence unfortunately shows something quite different. Deadly drug cartel violence in fact is worsening all along our border with Mexico as demonstrated by the brutal events of just the past few days. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Mexican government declared progress Friday in its war against violent drug cartels. It says murder is down seven percent and kidnapping is down 18 percent since August when Felipe Calderon's government launched an effort to crack down on cartel infiltration of law enforcement.
FELIPE CALDERON, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO (through translator): On average we have captured a band of kidnappers ever two days.
WIAN: As if on cue, cartel hit men launched an unusually brutal killing spree even by Mexican standards over the next four days; 43 murders were in Tijuana, just across the border from San Diego. Some victims were beheaded. Others included the teenage nephew of a government official, a 13-year-old and a 4-year-old boy.
Juarez, adjacent to El Paso suffered 40 suspected drug cartel hits in the past week. Eight victims were killed inside an upscale seafood restaurant. The mutilated bodies of seven others found near a school soccer field.
Experts on drug cartel say the Mexican government's claims of progress should be put into perspective.
PROF. BRUCE BAGLEY, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI: The problem is so large, it's so persuasive, corruption is so widespread that any suggestion that a decline over the last three months in killings or an increase in the weeding out of corrupt officials is premature and quite arbitrary. Mexico has a systemic problem.
PROF. GEORGE GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM AND MARY: While Mexico's economy is suffering as we're suffering in the U.S., the one sector that's booming is the funeral industry, and the mortuaries in Tijuana and in Ciudad Juarez areas are just filled to capacity.
WIAN: Calderon says he will not back down in the war on drug cartels although more than 4,000 of his countrymen have lost their lives in the fight this year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Some help is now arriving from the United States which this week released the first $200 million of a three-year $1.4 billion aid a package. Its goal is to provide Mexico with military equipment and law enforcement trained to better fight the drug war -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian. Joining me now with more on Mexico's drug wars are the co-authors of an extensive investigative report published this week in "Newsweek" magazine, entitled "Bloodshed on the Border" it's in the current edition of the magazine. Arian Campo-Flores, Newsweek's Miami bureau chief joins us tonight from Miami. Good to have you with us.
ARIAN CAMPO-FLORES, NEWSWEEK MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Thank you, good to be here.
DOBBS: And correspondent Monica Campbell joining us tonight from Mexico City. Thank you both for being with us.
This is, I think, a stark report that shows in detail that we have not seen, frankly, in any of our national newspapers, our national news magazines before of the level of just gruesome, grisly violence that is taking place south of our border. In fact, more people are dying in this drug cartel violence than there are casualties currently in the war in Iraq each day.
CAMPO-FLORES: Yes. Well, I mean that's the thing that we really wanted to highlight in the piece is the fact that there's this really mayhem that's occurring just south of the border that as one of the investigators that I spoke to in El Paso noted, a lot of Americans really aren't necessarily aware of, at least the extent of the assassination and bloodshed that there is there. And so, really, what we're facing at our nation's doorstep is what has all the markings of a failed state. I mean when we think of failed states, a lot of times people think of Afghanistan or Pakistan. But what we have just south of the border is really quite a lawless territory where many of these criminal organizations operate largely with impunity.
DOBBS: Monica, focusing as you did on Juarez just south of El Paso; a million and a half people, the number of murders over this past weekend, I believe it was 23 murders, the Mexican police now tell us that at least three were U.S. citizens killed there over the past three weeks. I mean what was your reaction when you first saw what was actually happened in Juarez?
MONICA CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's definitely a chilling effect in Juarez. What you have is a war for that city and the drug-smuggling corridors that run through or around it. And the average people in Juarez are not feeling safe going out at night. They're keeping their kids at home. You have the press has been threatened. We had a journalist killed there last month. People are genuinely frightened to leave their homes and there is really no solution in sight.
DOBBS: No solution in sight. Felipe Calderon whom I complimented as he took office for his declaration that he would take on the drug cartels and win that battle. The most recent public opinion survey in Mexico, as you know, Monica, shows that most Mexican citizens believe that the Mexican government is losing this war against the drug cartels.
CAMPBELL: Right, well, the feeling along the border -- and I would say throughout Mexico -- is that the government has lost control of major parts of the country. And it's very evident in a city like Juarez.
If something is happening to you, if you're a victim of a crime, you're not going to feel safe going to the police because the police -- the law enforcement authorities are so corrupt, they're in collusion with the criminals themselves.
So there's really nowhere to go. There's no one to turn to in this type of situation, and the confidence that people have in the government to protect them is at rock bottom.
DOBBS: Arian, as you and Monica describe the stark contrast between Juarez and to the north obviously El Paso, El Paso, just about the third size of Juarez, perhaps a little smaller than that actually. You described the contrast. "Juarez," you write, "looks like a failed state with no government entity capable of imposing order and a profusion of powerful organizations that kill and plunder at will. It's as if the United States faced another lawless Waziristan -- except this one happens to be right at the nation's doorstep."
Why -- let me ask it this way. How is it that El Paso so far, even though there have been at least two deaths in the last month in El Paso related to the violence in Juarez, how is it that El Paso has managed to this point to be relatively unscathed with the madness that is Juarez?
CAMPO-FLORES: Well, I think it's probably a couple of things. One is that it's not really in the cartel's interest to really unleash that same level of violence obviously on the U.S. side because obviously on the U.S. side they face a far different law enforcement infrastructure than they do in Mexico.
I mean you've got -- as we note in the piece, you know, El Paso is crawling with federal law enforcement agencies. You've got DEA, FBI, customs and border protection; a whole host beyond the local and state. So it's really not in their interest to invoke the wrath of U.S. law enforcement.
And then another thing is that, I mean, there is -- there is a lot of vigilance on the part of U.S. authorities. They're watching them like hawks. This is just at the nation's doorstep, and they're monitoring it very closely, and they have, you know, a number of task forces, multi-agency task forces that they've created to combat it.
DOBBS: Monica Campbell, you've about been reporting from Mexico, from the region for some number of years. It seems that the people of Mexico are putting up with something they've never had to. They've dealt with incompetent and corrupt governments before. They've dealt with poverty. They've dealt with a failing economy, but this level of corruption and this dimension of drug violence adds something entirely new for the -- our neighbors to the south.
What is the sense, the mood in that nation right now and the prospects for the Calderon government?
CAMPBELL: Well, the Calderon government just turned two years in office and I have to say your average Mexican is not feeling terribly positive about the situation. You open up the newspaper and the headlines are blaring about the level of violence and the type of violence.
And that's what I think is important to note here is that we're seeing a range of violent acts that have never been seen before in Mexico. We're seeing decapitations, we're seeing skyrocketing kidnapping rate. Every week these cartels seem to up the ante. And whether or not people have confidence that Calderon is actually trying to fight this war, the solution is not there. The results aren't there.
DOBBS: OK. Thank you very much.
CAMPBELL: And that's what has people worried.
DOBBS: Monica, thank you very much. Monica Campbell.
And I will close by pointing out again that as this violence rages and as Arian and Monica pointed out, Mexico remains the principal source of methamphetamines, heroin, marijuana and cocaine a entering the United States and it seems to be the policy of the United States to accept the collateral damage here and to fund the cartels there. A sad, sad statement but unfortunately a factual one.
Thank you, both, for a terrific report in "Newsweek" magazine; "Bloodshed on the Border". Monica Campbell, Arian Campo-Flores. Thank you both so much.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
DOBBS: Up next, a new security agreement calling for our troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2011. I'll be talking with one of the country's leading military analysts and former military commanders, General David Grange joins us.
And help may finally be on the way for some struggling homeowners facing foreclosure. I'll be talking with the former head of the FDIC, Bill Isaac about our economic crisis. He has some important ideas for solutions.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: While our government has pledged trillions of dollars to bail out our economy and particularly Hank Paulson's buddies on Wall Street, little has been done to help struggling homeowners. Now the treasury department says it is finally considering a new plan that they think would stabilize the country's housing market as they put it.
Bill Isaac is former chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. He says it's time for the government to begin helping homeowners. It's good to have you with us.
BILL ISAAC, FORMER FDIC CHAIRMAN: Nice to be here, Lou. DOBBS: Let's turn to this first. By whatever the measure, $8 trillion, $7 trillion, whatever the number. When are we going to see some evidence that some of this money is having a positive effect on reversing our weakening economy?
ISAAC: Well, I mean I guess we'll never know what the economy would be like without it. So it's hard to prove that. But I think over the next -- I hope over the next several months we'll start to see some effect from the fed's efforts in particular plus the money that's being pumped into the banking system by the treasury.
DOBBS: Can you think of any excuse not to help out right now having put $8 trillion into the system, not to spend $34 billion to help out our Detroit carmakers who have about 3 trillion -- I'm so used to bigger number, 3 million folks who directly or indirectly are employed by the car industry?
ISAAC: Are you saying do I believe we should help the car makers? Is that the question?
DOBBS: I used a double negative which you correctly chided me for having done.
ISAAC: I'm just trying to make sure I understood the question.
DOBBS: You bet you.
ISAAC: I don't know whether in the end we should help them because that's a political decision. I do feel that we should not help them unless we are convinced that they've come up with a business plan that works. I -- my own sense --
DOBBS: I've got to ask you this. Would you trust any one of those senators today or any one of those Congressmen to read the business plan from General Motors or Ford and tell you whether or not it worked or didn't work? Or one of their staff members?
ISAAC: I hope they have some advisers, but I -- I guess what I'm -- what my thought is, I think the -- I don't know why the car companies are resisting going through a prepackaged bankruptcy.
DOBBS: You know why. It means the management is probably going to get blown out. It means the investors go away and the bondholders don't get bailed out because a large measure of this money will go to bail out the bondholders, right? So everybody gets happy.
I don't want to talk about that publicly, but that's what we're talking about.
ISAAC: Yes. I believe that -- I don't see the adverse -- the serious adverse consequences of going through a bankruptcy proceeding and cleaning up these companies so that they -- so that we have some prospect that they're going to succeed going forward.
DOBBS: And I don't -- I personally wouldn't give anybody a dime in Detroit unless they made very strict -- strictly adhered to removing offshore and production and the outsourcing of American jobs because it's not going to do any good to give them those billions if they're going to continue this nonsense that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has even shut up about, suggesting that offshoring production was about efficiency and competitiveness when what it's really about is the cheapest wages possible. I agree with you on that.
Between us we can come up with a pretty good set of conditions, I believe.
Sheila Bair, one of your successors at the FDIC, I think has been rather noble in her assertions and ideas about how to help the homeowner. She's awfully lonely however in Washington, D.C. Do you think she's going on the right track?
ISAAC: I do. I think she's on the right track. We need to help homeowners and whether her specific ideas are going to work or not, I don't know, but she's actually been experimenting with them at the failed Indymac, and they apparently are working there. She knows more -- a lot more about the subject than most people and she's very smart. I would rely on her judgment.
DOBBS: Well, you've just probably eliminated her from consideration. Most of the folks there in Congress, they're going to ignore her because she's making too much sense.
You know, one of the things people never think about, all these trillions of dollars. If we had just for the mean price of a house, of a million foreclosures; if we had just given them -- just bought out the mortgage last year that would have been $200 billion, we'd still have about $8 trillion to play with.
People aren't thinking. Why is that?
ISAAC: I don't know. There's a lot of things that aren't being done right. I won't go into mark to market economy but that's critical. We've got to take care -- address that issue. There's no sense urgency about it.
I would also say that I'm curious about the treasury plan that intends to increase the number of mortgages by driving down the price of those mortgages from already pretty low levels, 5.5 percent down to 4.5 percent. How do you get banks that don't want to lend you money to lend you more by dropping the rate? I'm not sure I understand that.
DOBBS: To their credit, J.P. Morgan Chase started modifying loans and without that modification I don't see how it works either, do you?
ISAAC: No.
DOBBS: Bill Isaac, as always, great to have you with us. Come back soon.
ISAAC: My pleasure. DOBBS: Coming up next, our troops will leave Iraq within three years. One of the country's leading military experts is General David Grange. He'll be here with us and tell us what it means for the Obama administration.
This country's religious heritage, is it under attack? Senator Jim DeMint says yes and in the capital of this nation.
We'll be right back.
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DOBBS: A lot of people are upset about the new multimillion- dollar Capitol Visitors Center in Washington, D.C. Senator Jim DeMint says the new Capitol Visitors Center ignores this country's religious heritage. The Senator says that center omits references to God including the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust."
Senator DeMint joins us now from Greenville, North Carolina. Senator, good to have you with us.
SEN. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Lou, thank you. Thanks for having me on.
DOBBS: How is it that almost a billion dollar visitor center doesn't take into account this country's religious heritage?
DEMINT: Well, we have made some progress by holding up their funding until they fixed a few things but I think Americans deserve an accurate portrayal of their history in displays that accurately represent what's in the capitol today. And you can't look at the capitol or much about our history without seeing that faith played a critical role in our country and still does today. In fact, I think the folks who wrote the constitution would say that our success is not based on our government but it's based on the character of the people which came from values in faith. That needs to be a part of our visitor center and it is not today.
DOBBS: Let me point out to people -- may not believe this. I mean, they put up actually "E Pluribus Unum" as the motto of the United States. Have you got that fixed?
DEMINT: Well, we have part of it plastered over. It still says "E Pluribus Unum" but they've just plastered over that it's our national motto. Because our national motto is "In God We Trust" but they're telling me it's going to take $150,000 to change this column and I just said, cover it up with another piece of marble.
They don't want to do it that way but the biggest omission was above the replica of the speaker's chair, there was no "In God We Trust" which is prominently there in the House of Representatives today. And so, it seemed to be an intentional omission. And they have agreed to put that on there. I think it is on there now.
But as you go through, a lot of the famous quotes from Washington and Jefferson about our freedoms being dependent on a religious and virtuous people and the folks who wrote our constitution said it would only govern a virtuous and religious people. You can't know anything about American history without knowing how important faith is.
DOBBS: Are you -- we're just about out of time, Senator. Are you getting that fixed?
DEMINT: Well, not all of it. We have got some agreement that some of the displays that are rotated through will contain our religious heritage.
DOBBS: What can our viewers -- excuse me, senator. We just about out of time. What can we do to help?
DEMINT: Just call the Congressmen and senators to take a tour and pay attention to it and let's just act reasonably on this. We are not trying to push religion. We just want the truth.
DOBBS: There you go. All right. Senator Jim DeMint, thank you very much for being here.
DEMINT: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: At the top of the hour Campbell Brown, "No Bias, No Bull." Campbell, that doesn't leave much fun, does it?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, "NO BIAS, NO BULL": Yes it does, Lou. What do you mean?
Coming up in a few minutes, the moment of truth for the big three automakers. They try again to explain why they should get billions of dollars in bailout money. We break down their argument. You're going to want to hear this after all it is your money that we are talking about.
Also, tonight, Pastor Rick Warren joins me for a "No Bias, No Bull" interview. We are to ask him what he thinks of President-elect Obama. What kind of leader he is going to be.
Plus, in the horror of the Mumbai massacre, a little boy's life was saved by his nanny's extraordinary bravery. In an exclusive CNN interview, she tells the incredible story of how she got this little boy out and safely away from what had happened there, Lou. We'll have that, as well.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Campbell.
Up next, our troops leaving Iraq by 2012. Military analyst General David Grange joins us next. Stay with us, we're coming right back.
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DOBBS: Two more of our troops have been killed in Iraq. Our troops were killed in a suicide bombing today in Mosul. These are the first two casualties of the month of December. 4,209 of our troops have been killed since the war began. 30,852 of our troops have been wounded; 13,595 of them seriously.
Well, the United States and Iraq today signed an agreement that will permit all of our troops to be out of Iraq by January 1st of 2012. Joining me now to discuss those withdrawals, our military analyst General David Grange. Good to have you with us, general.
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: This is good news. Tell us what you think -- how quickly this can be carried out.
GRANGE: Well, you know, we've talked in the past about once the word's given it takes about a year to get everything out of Iraq; signing over all the facilities and all the equipment and everything but looks like it is on track. Conditions are favorable, at least right now and they have openly stated a time line so now it's almost a moot point whether we should stay there or not.
DOBBS: There was something today that we have a CNN opinion research poll that came out and it's sort of peculiar given the timing. We asked, is the U.S. winning the war in Iraq? And the response was 49 percent yes; no 49 percent. As if it was an assessment of a political situation rather than a military one. Your response?
GRANGE: Yes. I'm not sure how the majority of the people would know if we're winning or not.
DOBBS: Right.
GRANGE: I think we are winning. It is not just the United States winning, it's the United States and Iraq winning that war.
DOBBS: And, in the case of Afghanistan, the president-elect has said he wants to send more of our troops to Afghanistan. Do you think that's the appropriate measure to take?
GRANGE: Absolutely. But also, with these other elements of power that we talked before; information and economics, as well.
DOBBS: And the idea that we can have our military back, how soon do you believe that we can have -- in what order, assuming and let's -- and praying, that events stay positive in Iraq, what should we expect in the way of that orderly withdrawal?
GRANGE: First of all, you are going to start seeing combat units coming back more than logistic-types because of just the backhaul of equipment, the signing over to the Iraqi military.
The Iraqi military, the fighters, are starting to do very well. They have a lot of units ready to go. The tough thing is all the logistics and the command and control, the medical. Those type of things. I think you will see those American troops helping the Iraqis there for quite sometime.
DOBBS: General David Grange, as always, thank you, sir. GRANGE: My pleasure. Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Tonight's poll results: Ninety-eight percent of you say the Consumer Product Safety Commission is protecting the interest of the toy industry instead of your interest.
Time now for a quick look at a couple of your thoughts.
Jeff in Florida says: "I'm still trying to figure out which Americans the ACLU is supposed to represent."
And Paula in Virginia: "The ACLU is a classic textbook example of the miscarriage of justice that occurs when the letter of the law takes precedence over the spirit of the law."
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts to loudobbs.com.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Good from New York.
Campbell Brown, "NO BIAS, NO BULL" starts right now.
