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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bailing out Detroit; Obama's new Deal; Buy American; War on the Middle Class; Broken Borders
Aired December 08, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf. Tonight, last minute negotiations on a $15 billion bailout of Detroit, we'll have the very latest for you live from Capitol Hill.
And tonight, President-elect Obama preparing to launch the biggest public works program in a half a century, but will that money actually be spent on corporations in this country and on American workers?
And tonight, hundreds of laid-off factory workers in Chicago have had a belly full of corporate greed, banks and politicians. They are fighting back. We'll have their story, all of that and all the day's news and much more from an independent perspective straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, December 8th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. Congressional Democrats and the White House tonight intensifying their negotiations to finalize a bailout of Detroit, Democrats want carmakers to receive up to $15 billion in federal loans to avoid bankruptcy by at least one of those car companies.
The president-elect tonight is working on a much bigger rescue package for the entire economy. The president-elect saying he wants to create or save as many as 2.5 million jobs by rebuilding our nation's infrastructure. Dana Bash has our report from Capitol Hill on the auto bailout.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under the Democrat's draft proposal auto companies would get $15 billion in bridge loans as soon as next week, Monday, December 15th. It's just a fraction of the $34 billion auto companies asked Congress for. But enough, lawmakers hope, to keep the big three afloat as they answer Washington's calls for a major overhaul.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: We'll provide funds to see the auto companies through the end of the first quarter of next year but this is no blank check or blind hope.
BASH: To ensure restructuring in Detroit, the president would appoint a so-called car czar, who by January 1st, would set up guidelines for struggling auto companies to reorganize, prove they can be profitable. If by February 15th that government appointed czar does not see enough progress from the auto companies, he could recall their government loans.
That point, forcing Detroit to overhaul its business plans in exchange for any taxpayer dollars has been a central Washington demand. But administration sources say they're concerned the Democrats proposal does not go far enough in passing President Bush's main test; that only viable companies would get government financing. Congressional Republican leaders agree.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Troubled automakers cannot expect taxpayers help without a serious commitment to change their ways permanently.
BASH: Democrats insist their plan is tough on Detroit giving auto companies a March 31st deadline to produce plans showing long- term viability. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that will require concessions from labor, management and banks, all aspects of the auto industry.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: We call this a barber shop. Everybody is getting a hair cut here in terms of the -- in terms of the conditions of the bill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now earlier today, both at the White House and here on Capitol Hill there was a lot of optimism that, perhaps, they could actually come to an agreement by the end of today. That hasn't happened yet but they're not giving up. Lou, as we speak, White House staffers along with congressional aides are behind closed doors, they're hunkered down trying to figure out if they can finalize this at some point this evening. Lou?
DOBBS: Why the rush? There's not even been a public hearing and discussion of the conditions that would be requisite, though conditions on outsourcing of American jobs, further off shoring of production. Why would the federal government be considering loaning money to Chrysler, which is owned by Cerberus, a private equity company that has immense financial resources of its own, quite different from General Motors and Ford?
BASH: That is precisely the question we're hearing from several Senate Republicans and a few of them are actually on the Senate floor asking that question. Why are we doing this? Again, after there was a bailout that went through obviously, much bigger under different circumstances, but hasn't gone very well and I'm sure we are going to hear much more of that if and when they do find this compromise when this ends up on the Senate floor, because even when that happens as you well know, Lou, it's still unclear whether the votes will be there to pass it.
DOBBS: Do we understand why Chris Dodd called for the resignation of GM CEO Rick Wagoner? He's the only one of the three CEOs who has experience in the automobile industry. He did not call for the resignation of United Auto Workers head Ron Gettelfinger. He didn't -- what's the deal?
BASH: It's hard to say, I think that there is a lot of -- there's a bad taste in some Democrats' mouths about not just about what's going on now but the history that they have had with GM in trying to get them to modernize and trying to get them to change their ways. I think there was a feeling at least the first time Rick Wagoner was here on Capitol Hill that his performance it was not great in that he didn't really answer the questions...
DOBBS: You mean the performance where they all three flew in, in their private jets? Is that the one?
BASH: That's the one. And on that note, I think you'll be happy to know, Lou that in this draft legislation it explicitly says that in order to get any taxpayer money no private jets in these companies.
DOBBS: All right, thank you very much, Dana Bash, from Capitol Hill, where efforts remain underway tonight to reach some sort of agreement on at least the parameters of a bailout, a federal bailout of the -- of Detroit.
New evidence tonight the government is rapidly spending money from that Wall Street bailout. The Treasury Department today saying it's already spent $335 billion of the first $350 billion in that program. Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, now apparently considering whether to tap the second portion of that $700 billion bailout, exactly half of it, 350 billion more remains. By some estimates the total cost of this bailout could eventually rise to more than a total of $8 trillion, combining all of the money put forward by the federal government, the Treasury Department and by the Federal Reserve in its lending and guarantees.
Tonight the U.S. Senate confirming New York federal prosecutor Neal Barofsky (ph), a special inspector general of that Wall Street bailout to monitor and to provide oversight of the bailout. President-elect Obama wants to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on public works on a new stimulus package, the president-elect promising a recovery plan that is equal to the task, as he put it, but Obama is not saying how much he will spend. Jessica Yellin has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When it comes to the recession, Barack Obama is preparing Americans for a long winter, telling Tom Brokaw on "Meet the Press"...
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: As tough as times are, and things are going to get worse before they get better...
YELLIN: But he vows to turn the economy around offering hope to hard-hit Americans.
OBAMA: They are looking at pink slips, jobs being shipped overseas that devastate entire towns. And that's why my number one priority coming in is making sure that we've got an economic recovery plan that is equal to the task.
YELLIN: Obama is proposing a program that would save or create 2.5 million jobs putting people to work making public buildings green, improving the nation's highways and modernizing public schools. The top Democrat on the Senate Public Works Committee has already started identifying projects.
SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D-CA), PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE: What we're doing is just getting our work ready so that if we have to move quickly to help him, we will.
YELLIN: In a letter to Obama released today, she says 585,000 bridges need improvement, up to $286 billion a year is needed through 2020 just to repair the transportation infrastructure and every $1 billion of highway construction spending supports 35,000 jobs. Separately today, Democratic mayors were on Capitol Hill urging Congress to start that investment.
MAYOR MANNY DIAZ (D), MIAMI: We are here to help build out America and put Americans back to work.
MAYOR RICHARD DALEY (D), CHICAGO: No handout, no bailout. We're not here begging. This will be good for America.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: Lou, this new job's program Barack Obama proposed over the weekend is part of a larger economic stimulus package that his economic team is writing and working on currently. I'm told that it will cost less than $1 trillion and they hope the new Congress will vote on it quickly in January and that Barack Obama can sign it into law soon after he becomes president on January 20th. Lou?
DOBBS: Jessica, have we really reached the point in this country where we start talking about just less than a trillion dollars? I mean this is still...
YELLIN: It feels funny saying that.
DOBBS: It's significant money by any standard. It is also, we should point out Jessica, money that there's been a great cry for investment in this country for some time, for our public infrastructure of the Civil Engineers Association estimating three years ago that it would require then, just 1.6 trillion, as you put it, when putting a trillion in there, just 1.6 trillion to bring our infrastructure up to the level to which it should have been through proper maintenance. Jessica, thank you very much -- Jessica Yellin.
Well rising demands tonight for more money from the president- elect stimulus package to be spent exclusively in this country. There are rising concerns that at least some of that money could be spent overseas and would be spent overseas at the expense of American corporations and American workers. Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If President-elect Obama really wants to get a bang for his billions of bucks in infrastructure he shouldn't stop at simply spending the money to create jobs. He should require that the people and the materials used to build the project be American. Supporters of the argument say that while it's patriotic, it's also smart to require the building materials be American-made.
SCOTT PAUL, ALLIANCE OF AMER. MANUF.: When you make sure those are made in America, you're supporting good manufacturing jobs as well and that's really what we need to get out of this recession that we're in. We need to create good manufacturing jobs in this country, along with the construction and service jobs that stimulus and infrastructure investment would create.
TUCKER: In other words, the money spent will have a multiplier affect. It's the kind of phrase economists like to use to explain that if infrastructure projects put people to work building them, it puts even more people to work supplying the materials for them. It's the kind of logic that the chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee understands.
REP. JAMES OBERSTAR (D), TRANSPORTATION CHMN.: We don't outsource the workers to Bangalore, India. We're not going to outsource the iron, the steel, the plastic, the cement, to any place else. These are American tax dollars going to create jobs. Those jobs are going to be created in America, not in some distant land.
TUCKER: Transportation projects already include buy American provisions thanks in large part to language that Congressman Oberstar is responsible for putting in transportation project requirements. The congressman is looking to expand those provisions to water infrastructure projects that have been proposed and to school projects that are being proposed to be built with the money.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, supporters of the buy American provision say the current language of the provision can and should be strengthened noting the current rules allow contractors in some cases to break down the size of a project into much smaller projects and thereby, Lou, allowing them to get around buy American projects, but I can tell you when I spoke with Oberstar today he was very firm that he intends to strengthen that language and expand it in this case.
DOBBS: Yes, because every dime that's spent in this country, right now, on these kinds of stimulus packages, that money, it means very little, including the automobile bailout, if putting forward $15 billion or whatever the money would be spent on the infrastructure program, which I've been calling for, for years, which I support.
But if, on the other side of it they permit jobs to flee the country through outsourcing, the off shoring of production through contracts to foreign producers whether it be cement or whether it be any number of products necessary to infrastructure developments, it will mean relatively little. Thank you very much, Bill Tucker. Well the stock market today surged for a second consecutive session helped by all that talk of bailouts and big new -- and a big new stimulus package, the Dow Jones industrials rising nearly 300 points today, closing at more than 8900. A big gainer today, General Motors, its stock up 21 percent, pretty impressive, some people in Detroit praying for divine intervention to save the car industry in Detroit.
Worshippers of Detroit's Greater Grace Temple (ph) called on Congress to bailout the carmakers. Hallelujah. Hybrid SUVs from each of the big three carmakers parked right on the stage there at the church. Many religious leaders in Detroit have called for government aid for the Big Three. So far though it appears God hasn't answered all of their prayers. There's still no bailout deal tonight, but as you can tell it looks like things are moving their way, so perhaps putting those SUVs up on that stage did the right -- was the right idea.
Still ahead, the Border Patrol has more agents than ever but are the country's borders anymore secure -- that report -- and late developments tonight in the uproar of a possible bonus for the CEO of Merrill Lynch -- he thinks he deserves one -- one of the companies at the center of our financial crisis. And some factory workers in Chicago are fighting back against corporate greed and Wall Street excess. We'll tell you all about that and a great deal more straight ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Some 200 laid off factory workers in Chicago sending a message to management, banks, politicians they're not going anywhere, apparently. The workers at Republic Window and Door (ph) laid off suddenly last week -- that -- their last day was Friday. Company officials told the workers that Bank of America had cancelled Republic's (ph) funding. Workers say they will stay until they are fully paid. Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich today pressured Bank of America to help those workers. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: We, the state of Illinois, will suspend doing any business with the Bank of America and we hope that this kind of leverage and pressure will encourage the Bank of America to do the right thing for this business so these workers can keep their jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Gets complicated. Bank of America today saying it's the company's fault. "It's unfortunate, said Bank of America, that the company has been unable to reverse its declining circumstances." More unwanted attention for Bank of America today, and by the way, those circumstances worsening for banks but that apparently doesn't concern the federal government.
John Thain, Merrill Lynch's CEO tonight telling Merrill's board that he no longer wants a bonus for this year. Earlier today "The Wall Street Journal" reported that Thain was pressing for a bonus of some $10 million. Under Thain's leadership, Merrill lost about $12 billion this year. It's in the process of being acquired by Bank of America, because it was on its last leg.
Thain's change of heart apparently comes after New York's attorney general, Andrew Cuomo, today called Thain's demand, quote, "nothing less than shocking and in no way justified." Andrew Cuomo, now there's a good name and a very intelligent view of the situation.
That brings us to our poll tonight. Which of these reversals of fortune do you believe disallows a $10 million bonus for Merrill Lynch CEO John Thain? A loss of more than $11 billion; 30,000 employees laid off; a lower stock price; or perhaps all of the above. We'd like to hear from you. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll send them on to the board over there at Merrill and Bank of America.
Almost two million American workers have lost their jobs so far this year. Manufacturing jobs have been especially hard hit as our failed trade policies are sending many of those jobs overseas, 85,000 manufacturing jobs last month alone were lost. Lisa Sylvester has the story of one worker and her family who now face an uncertain future.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tina Stiffler of Mansfield, Ohio has known hard times before but never like this. Friday was her last day at the Albeco (ph) Uniform Factory. The plant, which has been making uniforms for police and firefighters for a century is shutting down. Stiffler has five young children and her husband was laid off from his job four months ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know what we're going to do. How I'm going to be able to take care of my kids, the ladies that I worked with, I was scared for them because most of them have worked there their whole lives.
SYLVESTER: Stiffler thinks about others, even as her own situation is dire. She and her family moved in with her mother-in-law after they couldn't afford to pay their rent. But now her mother-in- law's home is in foreclosure. She has tried to keep her kids shielded from what's going on.
TINA STIFFLER, LAID-OFF WORKER: I can't even buy them winter boots right now because every penny I've got has got to go either in groceries or in the gas tank so I don't -- you know, right now it's just -- it's so unbelievably hard.
SYLVESTER: She will receive about $115 a week in unemployment, but that's barely enough to pay utilities and the bills keep piling up. Christmas is around the corner but not for their household.
T. STIFFLER: They want to go see Santa and I don't want them to not go see Santa, but at the same time, I don't want to give them false hope. The reality is things -- things -- I don't even want to think about Christmas. SYLVESTER: Stiffler says at a time when Congress has bailed out banks, insurance companies and automakers she could really use a bailout.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Tina Stiffler and her family have been told by the sheriff's office that they have to be out of the home that they're living in by the end of this week. Lou?
DOBBS: That story, unfortunately, they're not alone in their moment of need and in crisis. Lisa, thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
Well up next here, Caroline -- Caroline Kennedy, she's to be interested -- said to be interested in replacing Senator Hillary Clinton. What qualifications other than her name would she bring to Washington to the job? We'll have that story.
And the Border Patrol, well it is raising manpower to meet the challenges of a border that is wide open, but some say standards are suffering as more Border Patrol agents have been added. We'll have that report, a great deal more straight ahead. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our Border Patrol faces new challenges as the violent Mexican drug cartels expand their operations and cross our border. The agency says it is now on track to hire an additional 6,000 new agents by the end of this year. But critics say the Border Patrol can reach that goal only by cutting corners and lowering standards. They say training has been shortened and entrance requirements relaxed. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): May 2006, President Bush addresses the nation from the Oval Office promising an unprecedented boost of manpower along the nation's borders.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: By the end of 2008, we'll increase the number of board patrol officers by an additional 6,000. When these new agents are deployed, we'll have more than doubled the size of the Border Patrol during my presidency.
WIAN: It's one mission accomplished. The Border Patrol says it has more than 18,000 agents on the job or in training.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Border Patrol.
WIAN: The agency's recruiting tactics have included a slick video, aggressive effort to attract women and minorities, even a NASCAR vehicle sponsorship. The Border Patrol Union is critical of the hiring binge. It claims the agency has lowered standards and cut back training. T.J. BONNER, PRES., NAT'L BORDER PATROL COUN.: The Border Patrol has been able to reach its very ambitious goal of doubling its size essentially in the space of two and a half years by cutting corners. That's the bottom line here.
WIAN: Border Patrol officials were not available for comment, but they have recently denied that their standards have been lowered. Still, half the agents now on the job have less than two years experience and they're confronting an even more dangerous threat.
Drug cartel violence is exploding all along the Mexican border and assaults against Border Patrol agents are at an all-time high, 1,100 in 2008 alone. As LOU DOBBS TONIGHT has reported, Mexican drug cartel operatives in Texas have been ordered to confront U.S. law enforcement officers on the border with high powered weapons.
And cartels are trying to exploit the Border Patrol's recruiting drive to infiltrate the agency. The Border Patrol says increased manpower has helped reduced the flow of illegal aliens and drugs across the border. But as this video shot within the past two weeks shows, the mission of border security is far from accomplished.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The Border Patrol Union says the slowing economy is likely the main reason fewer illegal aliens are crossing the border and it may be boosting the Border Patrol's recruiting effort as well. With corporate layoffs spreading a job on the border may be better than no job at all, Lou.
DOBBS: All right, Casey, thank you very much, Casey Wian. Open borders amnesty advocates have a new ally in Congress, he's a Republican. He's Joseph Cao (ph). He's the new Republican congressman from New Orleans. Cao (ph) beat disgraced Democrat William Jefferson Saturday. The election delayed by Hurricane Gustav back in September.
This is the first time a Republican has represented New Orleans in more than a century, if you can believe that. Jefferson was expected to win, despite being indicted on a range of corruption charges. Three years ago you may recall the FBI raided his home and found $90,000 stashed in his freezer. Cao (ph) who was born in Vietnam and came to the United States in 1975, is the first Vietnamese American ever to be elected to Congress. But the 44-year-old will have a lot in common with Democratic lawmakers. For one thing he supports amnesty for illegal aliens; he's also an attorney, an immigration lawyer.
Well Caroline Kennedy is one of the Democrats' top choices to replace Hillary Clinton as the senator from New York, the junior senator, that is, if the senator is confirmed as expected to be the next secretary of state. Kennedy isn't talking publicly about her interest in the job, but she's been very visible politically over the past few months, joining her uncle and other family members endorsing Barack Obama for president. Some Democrats, however, question her qualifications saying she has very little experience in politics. Well, let's -- let's take a look now at some of your thoughts. Joy in Arkansas: "Bailout the auto companies? How can anyone afford to buy a vehicle if they are unemployed and have lost their home in foreclosure? It might save a few jobs for awhile but not for long."
Brian in Michigan: "I would like to ask all our congressmen to take a dollar a year in pay like the auto CEOs until they can fix the U.S. economy they screwed up. Seems only fair."
Linda and Rory in Texas: "Lou, now that it appears we will have a 'works' program to help Americans get jobs, we truly hope and pray that these jobs go to those who are citizens or truly checked out to be here legally to work."
We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit", now available in paperback.
Up next, many are comparing the president-elect with President Lincoln. I'll be asking one of the nation's leading authorities on President Lincoln about what advice he has for the president-elect.
And some Democrats are looking for a scapegoat now for the car industry's near collapse. We'll tell you why those Democrats have targeted the wrong man.
And new evidence that our newspaper industry faces its biggest crisis ever, can the industry, in fact, survive? We'll have that report, a great deal more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. News, debate and opinion. Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Welcome back.
More evidence the recession is accelerating what many say is the decline of our industry, our newspaper industry. One of the country's biggest newspaper groups, the Tribune Company, today, in fact, declared bankruptcy.
The Tribune Company owns the "Chicago Tribune," the "Los Angeles Times," the "Baltimore Sun," television and radio stations as well. It also owns the Chicago Cubs franchise which is not part of the bankruptcy filing. Tribune is struggling to pay off $13 billion in debt.
Meanwhile, the "New York Times" has mortgaged its Manhattan headquarters to raise more than $200 million in cash. The "Times," like other newspapers facing declining readership and a slump in earnings that the readership has been declining, in fact, for just about 15 years.
At the same time, Colorado's oldest newspaper, the "Rocky Mountain News," has put itself up for sale. There are reports the "Miami Herald" is also up for sale.
Newspapers all the country suffering from declining circulation and profits because of the recession, rising competition from the Internet for -- advertising and for what has been, as I said, just about a decade and a half long trend.
Washington, tonight, looking for a scapegoat, apparently, for Detroit's meltdown. There's rising pressure for GM CEO Rick Wagoner to step down as Senator Christopher Dodd has called for his ouster.
President-elect Obama yesterday said the big three may have to make management changes. Senator Chris Dodd far more specific saying Wagoner should, quote, "move on." But Wagoner may serve the industry best by remaining in his post.
Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): President-elect Obama said the auto companies' CEOs should go but he didn't name names on who should be fired.
OBAMA: Here's what I'll -- say. That it may not be the same for all the, all the companies.
PILGRIM: Senator Chris Dodd was more specific.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what you're saying about GM is that Rick Wagoner, the chairman, has to go?
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D-CT), BANKING CMTE. CHMN.: I think he has to move on.
PILGRIM: But some question why GM's chief executive, Rick Wagoner, is drawing fire.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: The automobile executives were brought to town, put on the pan, asked tough questions, properly so. We ought to do the same thing with the -- financial industry before they get another penny.
PILGRIM: Of the three auto executives, GM's CEO Rick Wagoner is the only one who has been in the auto industry his entire career. He's been with GM since 1977 and held a number of positions around the world before taking the CEO slot in 2000.
REBECCA LINDLAND, HIS GLOBAL INSIGHT: I do think that it's the wrong timing to try and go through a management change right now and I do think that he would be the best person to take GM through the quagmire that is in the industry right now because he does have the support of so many people and because he does know the inner workings of GM and the industry, really, better than anybody at that table right now.
PILGRIM: By contrast, Chrysler's Bob Nardelli is an auto industry outsider. Former CEO of Home Depot before he took the auto job last year. Ford's CEO, Alan Mulally, spent more than three decades at Boeing before being tapped to try to turn Ford around just two years ago.
Even the head of the union says don't blame the CEO of GM.
RON GETTELFINGER, PRESIDENT, UAW: Rick Wagoner and the other auto executives had nothing to do with the crisis that we see in our economy right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now today GM released this statement, "We believe Rick Wagoner is the best leader for GM. We're confident he and his team after fully capable of producing the kind of results we as a board expect and the American taxpayer would demand." -- Lou?
DOBBS: Yes, it's interesting, Alan Mulally from Boeing, the aircraft industry, a full career, he came there, what, two or three years ago.
PILGRIM: Just I think a year or something.
DOBBS: Was it a year ago?
PILGRIM: Yes.
DOBBS: And -- and of course, Bob Nardelli who took the Home Depot into the tank, walked away with $200 million and works for a private equity company, who somehow has gotten the ear of Congress to bailout with federal dollars a private equity company, and Chris Dodd goes after Rick Wagoner.
PILGRIM: You have to wonder why they don't value some expertise at this point.
DOBBS: Yes. Well, it's sort of a -- it's a trend in many ways in American industry. It doesn't matter with what you know about the industry or the product or the services, what you know about, quote/unquote, "management," which one of the great parcels and we are seeing, I think, broadly in this economy in large measure, the idea fail, that anyone can run any business irrespective of their knowledge of that industry.
Thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
Well, there are thousands of auto industry jobs at risk in our Midwestern industrial cities. Lansing, Michigan has about 6,000 people employed at -- for their Ford General Motors plants there. The mayor of Lansing, Michigan Virg Bernero is in Washington lobbying for federal aid. Mr. Mayor, good to have you with us.
VIRG BERNERO (D), MAYOR-LANSING, MICHIGAN Great to be here with you, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's start with $15 billion. There was talk last week of $34 billion. Previously there've been $25 billion. You're absolutely convinced that Detroit needs a bailout?
BERNERO: The bottom line is we need to get this done. You know we look at what the auto industries means to this country. It's not just Lansing, Michigan but all of these jobs spread throughout the economy.
If the auto -- if the big three go down, the domino effect, the ripple effect would be disastrous for our economy. This is more than just a -- fear mongering as has been accused. This is fact. And it's like 3 million jobs to $150 billion hit on our economy.
This is a real industry. And you know, Lou, we're so tired of the double standard and you talked about this on the show. I mean billions for Wall Street, no strings attached. But an industry like the auto industry that has done so much to help create the middle class, real people making real products in this economy and yet, there's this -- there's questioning, these conditions.
And you know we're willing to accept the conditions. Fine, have accountability. Have conditions. But recognize the contributions of this industry and the disaster that it would be for the industry to go away. And there's both economic security and national security issues.
DOBBS: Yes, actually I think I'm the first person to point out the -- discrepancy, if you will, in the treatment between the Wall Street bankers and the CEOs of the big three car makers. But what troubles me and a number of other people, Mr. Mayor, is the big three.
We're talking about really the big two. Ford and General Motors. Chrysler is owned by a private equity company. Chrysler has kind of availed itself of the equity, the substantial capital of Cerberus, the private equity. Why in the world should they be included in a federal bailout?
BERNERO: Well, that should, that should be looked at very carefully. And in all honesty, I mean, we are a GM town. My father retired from General Motors. And we used to say what's good for General Motors is good for America.
My concern, Lou, is like, you know, I read "Exporting America," your book, and I didn't want to believe it years ago, but I see that happening. I see us exporting our standard of living.
And so, I think the details should be worked out and I leave that to the experts, but I just think that a domestic auto industry is crucial. The manufacturing prowess that it represent, manufacturing the auto mobiles at the top of the manufacturing pyramid, and if we lose that, it is a domino effect. But we lose that prowess forever.
And -- and we're not going to get it back and I can't believe that we're willing to do that. These other countries, there are other companies are supported by their governments as you've talked about so well. The unequal playing field that our workers faced -- our workers are the most productive in the world if they're given a chance. Somebody said recently, look at the Olympics in China. You know, when our -- when our athletes competed on a fair -- on a level playing field they brought back the gold. And our workers will bring back the gold but it's not a level playing field.
DOBBS: No.
BERNERO: The tariffs and the currency manipulation, and all the things that you've talked about over the years, we are not giving a square deal, a fair opportunity to our workers here in America.
DOBBS: And of course, those decisions concerning outsourcing are the decisions of CEOs, the business roundtable, American industry. I've been critical, by the way, of Rick Wagoner and General Motors, amongst others, for the outsourcing of American jobs and the offshoring of production, and will continue to be.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I believe that there should be a condition in this bailout to constrain that kind of outsourcing and that kind of off- shoring of production for products that are being sold and specifically built to be sold in the United States.
But I want to ask you about Rick Wagoner. Do you have any insight into why there would be a call for his departure, not Nardelli's or the CEO of Ford, Mulally -- I mean, or Ron Gettelfinger, the head of the United Autoworkers Union?
BERNERO: I have to say, once again, Lou, you're right on. I would think Rick Wagoner would be the last one to go. He's the guy with the auto -- he's been turning this big ship called General Motors, I mean, my god, they're huge. They're in 35 countries. He has been transforming this company.
This company is leaner and greener than ever before. I know they have a ways to go. But they're making more hybrid vehicles today than at any point in the past. The Cadillac CTS was Motor Trend Car of the Year, the -- which was made at Lansing, by the way.
The Chevrolet, their new model, the Malibu, was North American Car of the Year.
DOBBS: That's right.
BERNERO: They're making better products than ever before and you're going to take this guy and...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I'm starting to get the idea. Lansing is a General Motor's town.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: I think I got it. We appreciate it, Mr. Mayor. Thanks for being with us.
BERNERO: Thanks so much. Keep up the great work, Lou.
DOBBS: You too, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Virg Bernero, thank you for being with us.
Up next, will the president-elect follow the example of one of our greatest presidents? A leading expert on Abraham Lincoln, our 16th president joins us.
And one major union trying to further its own controversial agenda by targeting banks receiving bailout money. We'll sort that one out for you next. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, here we go. A payoff for the multi-trillion bailout of the financial industry. One of the country's biggest unions is the Service Employees International Union. It has a long track record of lobbying, amongst other things, for amnesty for illegal aliens and it's lobbying for something else tonight.
CNN has learned that the SEIU is exploiting the bailout opportunity and trying to organize bank tellers in this country. The union has plenty of political clout in Washington now. A former top union operative is the president-elect's new political director.
Drew Griffin with CNN Special Investigation Unit has our story. Drew?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATION UNIT: Lou, it's the first indication that the SEIU think strings should be attached to this bailout money on Wall Street and specifically, union labor, too.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN (voice over): We first learned of the plan in this e- mail between two very like-minded groups, an SEIU employee asking someone in the community organizing groups, ACORN, if any ACORN members worked in banks, specifically, do any ACORN members work in any of one of these banks -- the bank that took federal bailout money?
"We are starting to think about what possibilities there are in organizing bank workers," the e-mail reads, "since the banking industry is now being infused with billions of taxpayer dollars."
No one at SEIU would talk on camera but spokesperson Linda Tran said, yes, unionizing bank workers is now a project, especially because of the bailout.
"We believe there's a special responsibility for companies who receive taxpayer dollars," she says. "to insure their workers have a voice on the job."
The move by SEIU is not surprising to Hofstra University economics professor, Gregory Defreitas, who says the aggressive union has made big gains in healthcare, home services and janitorial work. Why not in low-income banking jobs where the work force is in constant fear of layoffs.
GREGORY DEFREITAS, HOFSTRA UNIVERSITY: Bank tellers are very, very poorly paid at the moment. Nationally, the average pay is around $22,000. $22,000 is pretty much the poverty rate, the poverty level of income for a family of four.
GRIFFIN: The timing may also be right politically. Not only because of the bailout money banks want, but because of the SEIU's new friend in power.
DEFREITAS: SEIU actually was the biggest single donor in the 2008 election, some $85 million spent on getting mainly Democrats elected to office.
GRIFFIN: President-elect Barack Obama is a strong union advocate who has appointed an SEIU executive as his political director. And SEIU spokes, Linda Tran, says, "There are a great number of newly elected members of Congress who agree with us on matters relating to working families."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: So, so far, Lou, Congress doesn't seem to have any strings attached to the money it's handing out on Wall Street, but as you can see, labor unions may be finding themselves in a favorable position to apply their own strings -- Lou?
DOBBS: That sort of poster condition to be applied as opposed to the preconditions with the auto industry. Drew, a fascinating report. Thank you very much as always. Drew Griffin with that exclusive report.
Well, coming up at the top of the hour, Campbell Brown, "NO BIAS NO BULL." Campbell, what are you working on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, Lou.
In a couple of minutes, New York state attorney general, Andrew Cuomo, tells us if we've got any legal recourse as CEOs rake in multimillion dollar bonuses while their companies tank.
And tonight, the very latest on the sit-in by laid-off workers at a factory in Chicago. Is Bank of America to blame for them losing their jobs and their severance?
Plus you're not going to believe the excuses you get out of Congress. You've probably heard a few, Lou. We're going to tell you about the noble defense of one congressman who has tried or tried and failed to get out of a DUI charge and that happened earlier today.
We'll have the details, Lou.
DOBBS: All right. Campbell, we'll look forward to it, thank you.
And a reminder to join me on the radio Monday through Friday for THE LOU DOBBS SHOW. Tomorrow's guests include Congressman Don Manzullo of Illinois, on the Detroit bailout, Congressman Heath Shuler of North Carolina.
More calls for employers to verify the legal status of new employees and the efforts by some to kill that e-verify program because it works so well.
Go to LouDobbsRadio.com to get your local listings for the show on the radio.
Up next here, what is the president-elect learned from Abraham Lincoln? One of the nation's leading authorities on our 16th president joins me. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, President-elect Obama is promising to unite the country and amongst his first steps he says he will draw on the experiences of one of our greatest presidents, Abraham Lincoln.
Harold Holzer is one of the country's leading authorities on the Lincoln presidency. He's 30 books on the 16th president. His latest book is "Lincoln President Elect." He joins us now and it couldn't be more timely.
Let me just show everybody how thick "Lincoln President Elect" is if you get an idea of what Harold brings to the, to the subject.
Good to have you with us.
HAROLD HOLZER, AUTHOR, "LINCOLN PRESIDENT ELECT", CHMN., LINCOLN BICENTENNIAL COMM.: Thank you. Great to be here.
DOBBS: All right. First, how would you compare at this point, this juncture, our President-elect Obama's transition and establishment of his -- at least this early stage of his Cabinet, the senior -- the senior positions of his administration with that of Abraham Lincoln?
HOLZER: Well, he seems to be following the Lincoln playbook in one way, the obvious way, which is that the -- the senator from New York who was widely expected to be the presidential nominee has been tapped for secretary of state. That's extraordinary.
But, of course, Lincoln never really had a senior staff. He had two young male secretaries, 27 and 23, who were gatekeepers, correspondence keepers, advisors. So the transition is so much more complex today.
DOBBS: Complex and I've covered a few of these transitions over the course of my career and I have to say that you have to go back to Reagan to see something, in my judgment at least, that seems to be as ordered, as directed, and the quality of person being considered for these posts at this level.
HOLZER: It's amazing how well you can do if you've won a decisive victory.
Lincoln wasn't sure that the Electoral College would even ratify the results of the popular vote. There was reason to believe that they would stray in February. And, of course, seven states just left the union rather than ratify or recognize the validity of the election. So...
DOBBS: So we're in better shape already.
HOLZER: Absolutely. Even with another team of rivals.
DOBBS: Another team of rivals, and that's kind of you to mention, Doris Kearns Goodwin, one of your...
HOLZER: One of my best friends.
DOBBS: One of your best friends, and a rival at least on the subject of Lincoln whose book, "A Team of Rivals," some say that Obama is emulating.
Is it, is it your sense that by bringing a team of rivals, if I may use the expression, to the Cabinet, that that will serve him well, or is it also fraught with some potential for problem?
HOLZER: It's fraught with potential. Lincoln had difficulty with his Cabinet. They didn't last through the administration, as we know. They -- one resigned in disgrace, was banished to Russia as minister to Russia. One never abandoned his ambitions for the presidency, himself.
The difference -- another difference is that the rivalry is much more real and intense today. Lincoln never debated with his Cabinet. I mean they never ran against each other for the nomination. And there was a tradition of tapping the leading men of your party for the Cabinet. That was very strong in the -- in 1850s and 1860.
Obama has really sort of rewritten it and elevated the tradition because these guys were -- and Hillary, of course -- were in debate with him dozens of times. It shows an amazing self-confidence as well as a respect for history and tradition.
DOBBS: And it's a respect, by the way, that hasn't been present in recent administrations, certainly. What would be your assessment, if you will, of the quality of the Cabinet that he's chosen so far? Let's bring you up to date.
HOLZER: Sure.
DOBBS: Give us your assessment of where we are with the president-elect's Cabinet as he has announced it and as we assume will be confirmed.
HOLZER: My own view is that it's extraordinary. He's tapped people who are well known and well established. He has turned away from traditional bureaucrats, which has been the tradition in recent Cabinet assemblages and gone back, again to the older, proven tradition of appointing political leaders who abandoned their legislative careers in many senses and go on to serve the president.
Again, an almost vanished tradition but one that shows a remarkable degree of self-confidence. These are all stars in their own right. So it takes an especially luminous star to harness them.
DOBBS: And how long a period did Lincoln serve as president- elect as compared to Senator Obama?
HOLZER: Four agonizing months versus what seemed like 10 agonizing weeks.
DOBBS: Yes. And the preparation, really, would be perhaps more appreciated, now, than then.
HOLZER: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's good to have a president-elect who's reading about Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt and others who handled the transition rather well.
DOBBS: Well, Harold Holzer, you're only saying that because you've written 30 books on the man.
HOLZER: Actually 31. I did not want to correct you the first time.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Well, 31 and it's a doozie. This is just about the part of getting ready...
HOLZER: Exactly.
DOBBS: ... to get on with the business of history making.
Thank you very much for being with us, Harold Holzer.
The book is, "Lincoln, The President Elect."
Well, coming up next the results of our polls, some of your thoughts. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, tonight's poll results, thorough, comprehensive. One percent of you say that you believe on $11 billion loss disallows a $10 billion bonus for Merrill Lynch CEO John Thain. 2 percent say those 30,000 employee layoffs disallow him, and 2 percent say a lower stock price disqualifies him. 94 percent of you said all of the above serve to disqualify him.
And we should give you the good news very quickly. John Thain, apparently, deciding late today to -- just shortly before, I guess, we went on the air -- to tell -- or just after we came on the air -- to tell his board he doesn't want that bonus after all. Reason prevails.
Speaking of reason, some of your thoughts now.
Yale in Louisiana said: "Any material supplied for any federally financed project should be made in America. Bring back the American middle class that built this country." Amen.
Gloria in Georgia: "Lou, I'm concerned that Obama's new jobs creation proposal won't have the necessary protection to ensure that those jobs will only be given to U.S. citizens and not illegal aliens."
Send us your thoughts to LouDobbs.com. And thank you for being with us tonight. Good night from New York.
"CAMPBELL BROWN, NO BIAS, NO BULLS" starts right now.
