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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Obama's Challenge; Roland Burris Goes to D.C.; Mideast War; No new Taxes? Democrats Behaving Badly
Aired January 05, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Tonight President-elect Obama begins work in Washington. He faces new questions about his economic recovery plan and a worsening crisis in the Middle East.
Also tonight, disarray in the Democratic Party from the showdown over Roland Burris' appointment to the Senate to Governor Bill Richardson's abrupt withdrawal from the president-elect's cabinet to what some are calling funny business in the disputed Senate race in Minnesota.
Also tonight global sea ice has returned to levels last seen nearly three decades ago. This is global warming. We'll have that special report, all of that, all the day's news from an independent perspective straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, January 5th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody and Happy New Year. President- elect Obama today declared our economy is worsening. The president- elect stepped up his effort to win bipartisan support for a huge stimulus package that would include $300 billion of tax cuts.
President-elect Obama chose former Clinton White House chief of staff Leon Panetta to be his CIA director and retired Admiral Dennis Blair (ph) to be director of national intelligence. The next chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Dianne Feinstein, however, is absolutely furious. Ed Henry has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to Washington. The trappings of power including Air Force jets at the ready and the views are sweet, especially when you drive past the spot where you'll be sworn in January 20th, but President-elect Obama did not come to Capitol Hill to celebrate.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: The inauguration stand is being built in the background, but the reason we're here today is because the people's business can't wait. We've got an extraordinary economic challenge ahead of us.
HENRY: A crisis so extraordinary that, for the first time, Obama aides are revealing his stimulus plan will include a massive $300 billion tax cut, money in the pockets of millions of Americans. While details are being worked out, the president-elect campaigned on a tax cut for people earning less than $200,000 a year, $500 for individuals and $1,000 for families.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: We'll be -- hit the ground running on the initiatives that some of which you've described, to address some of the pain being felt by the American people.
HENRY: But Republicans will be crucial to making support for the new president's first major initiative overwhelming. So he's sweetening the plan with business tax breaks as well. A credit for companies hiring new workers or holding back on layoffs, more flexibility to write off net operating losses, and money for new expenditures such as equipment.
OBAMA: Right now, the most important task for us is to stabilize the patient. The economy is badly damaged, it is very sick, and so we have to take whatever steps are required to make sure that it's stabilized.
HENRY: But Mr. Obama is already dealing with a cabinet shake-up. Governor Bill Richardson is denying any wrongdoing, but says a grand jury probe would have been a distraction. While team Obama is downplaying the exit, the president-elect vowed just last month Richardson would be key to selling the economic plan.
OBAMA: I think the notion that somehow the commerce secretary is not going to be central to everything we do is fundamentally mistaken.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Now, the president-elect also may have to scale back expectations about how quickly he can get the stimulus plan passed. Just a couple of weeks ago some of his advisers were hoping it could get signed into law as early as inaugural week; give him a quick legislative victory. Now the president-elect himself today is pulling back on that, saying it's more likely to be late January or even into February as it works its way through Congress, Lou.
DOBBS: Ed, tell us about the president-elect's chose of top intelligence officials and why Senator Dianne Feinstein is apparently so doggone angry.
HENRY: Well she's angry in part because she said she learned about Leon Panetta's choice through media reports and she wishes she had gotten a heads up. Some time members of Congress get a little upset when they're not in the loop and you can see Senator Feinstein there.
But secondly she cited the fact that he doesn't really have a lot of intelligence experience and says that running the CIA, she wants somebody who is a real intelligence professional. Now the thinking from the Obama camp, however, is that that hasn't gotten the CIA anywhere in recent years, and that post-9/11 they need -- really need a shaking up, and it's better to get somebody who's not from within the intelligence community, but is a well-known respected manager. Leon Panetta ran the Office of Management Budget. He was in charge of the House Budget Committee and remember he was the Clinton White House chief of staff, very respected on both sides of the aisle. And so the thinking in the Obama camp is that you get somebody who knows about intelligence, but also more importantly knows how to run something.
He can go in there and try to shake it up. That's not sitting too well among some of the congressional committees and maybe among some intelligence professionals, but frankly the Obama team basically doesn't seem to care -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well they have been so careful in the way in which they're moving ahead with this transition, it seems out of character, if you will, for them, Ed, to simply not care about how a post as important as these are being filled and the reaction among certainly the head of Senate intelligence.
HENRY: Well they care about the reaction, but they basically they feel, though, that while there's concerns, that it's outweighed by what he brings to the table, is what I mean. And they feel basically that while there is going to be some griping, that in the long run this is such a strong pick and respected on both sides of the aisle...
DOBBS: Yes.
HENRY: ... that they think in the end it will blow away.
DOBBS: One of the issues here, too, in going to Senator Feinstein's point, Ed, the Bush administration tried that as well, putting a non-professional, if you will, in as the head of -- in the head of the CIA, and that reaction wasn't altogether that favorable. In it -- the concern that is being expressed here, how much of it is, if you will, pique at being excluded in the process on the part of Feinstein and perhaps others and profound concern?
HENRY: Well, there's a little bit of pique, and then I think there is a little bit, frankly of both, that there's concern that Leon Panetta does not have enough of an intelligence background, but you'll remember one of President Bush's choices, Porter Goss (ph), he came most directly out of the United States Congress.
DOBBS: Right.
HENRY: But before that had CIA experience himself and as you note, it did not quite work out. There were a lot of problems at the CIA. And that's why the Obama team is saying look, we know there is going to be griping out there, but in the long run, they think the CIA really needs a shaking up.
DOBBS: It seems like the CIA always does, doesn't it? Ed, thank you very much.
HENRY: Thank you.
DOBBS: Ed Henry reporting.
DOBBS: More friction among Democrats on another issue tonight, the appointment of Roland Burris to the U.S. Senate by Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. Burris today said he will be on Capitol Hill tomorrow to be sworn in as a U.S. senator, but Senate Democrats insist they won't allow Burris to be seated. Louise Schiavone has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nothing is going to stop Roland Burris from showing up for work tomorrow in the Senate of the United States.
ROLAND BURRIS (D), ILLINOIS SENATE APPOINTEE: I intend to be sworn in. I will present myself to the Senate tomorrow afternoon.
SCHIAVONE: Not good news to the Senate's Democratic leadership, displeased that a governor tainted by accusations of influence peddling, has presumed to fill the seat once held by the president- elect. For one thing it has given rise to a legal battle the Senate may not be able to win.
EUGENE VOLOKH, UCLA SCHOOL OF LAW: As a legal matter, it seems to me that the Senate would have to, if it's just following the law, would have to rule in favor of Roland Burris, because he has been appointed by the currently sitting governor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just think that the legal options to the Senate are kind of limited.
SCHIAVONE: But the clash has also created a major public relations problem for the Senate Democratic leadership. The majority leader confirms to CNN he had indeed submitted his own list of favorites for the Obama seat to Governor Blagojevich before charges against the governor were leveled by a federal prosecutor.
Quote, "it is part of his job as majority leader to share his thoughts about candidates who have the qualities needed to succeed in the Senate" -- end quote -- said his spokesman. Burris was not on that list, and this longtime observer says the Senate leadership in trying to block Burris from their chamber has this message.
KENNETH GROSS, ELECTION LAW ANALYST: A special space on the planet earth is reserved for everybody who's properly appointed except you, and that doesn't look too good.
SCHIAVONE: Nor will the saga do much for lawmakers' reputations.
KARLYN BOWMAN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: I think all we can say is that the Senate is not highly regarded today, and this is -- this whole process is unlikely to add any luster to its standing.
SCHIAVONE: This fall, a CNN poll found 76 percent of those surveyed disapproved of the way Congress is doing its job, only 23 percent approved. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lou, the Burris matter is an unsolicited distraction for Senate leaders and behind the scenes talks continues. The Senate majority leader and Burris meet behind closed doors on Wednesday -- Lou.
DOBBS: The Senate majority leader in some quarters, you know, his critics suggest that he must think he's quite something. There's also a great flap in the Democratic Party over the names that he apparently rejected in a phone call with Governor Blagojevich, all of whom, at least according to those reports, happened to be black.
SCHIAVONE: He wanted to, according to the "Chicago Sun Times" which is a report that has not been denied by the Senate majority leader's office, he was eager to see either Tammy Duckworth (ph) or Lisa Madigan (ph), very prominent women in Illinois politics appointed to that seat. He felt that the other three people that he mentioned were not capable of winning statewide office and he felt that these other two candidates had a stronger chance, but it's the kind of thing that is creating a situation for the Senate Democrats that, when we see Roland Burris arriving at the U.S. Senate tomorrow, if he's turned away or if he has to use a different entrance than other duly elected senators of the United States use, that's not going to look so great, according to many analysts.
DOBBS: Well and again, we'll be watching carefully the Congress' poll numbers which show them at historic lows. Thank you very much, Louise Schiavone.
Important new developments tonight in the disputed Senate race in Minnesota, a race marked by bitter partisanship and charges political dirty tricks, the state's canvassing board today declared Democrat Al Franken to have won the recount, beating Republican incumbent Norm Coleman by just 225 votes. That reversed the unofficial result back in November which gave Coleman a 215-vote lead out of almost three million votes cast, a swing of about 440 votes. Franken immediately declared victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL FRANKEN (D), MINNESOTA U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: After 62 days of careful and painstaking hand inspection of nearly three million ballots, after hours and hours of hard work by election officials and volunteers across this state, I am proud to stand before you as the next senator from Minnesota.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Republicans quickly challenged Franken's assertion. Coleman's attorney promising a legal challenge to the canvassing board's declaration today, Republicans say Democratic Secretary of State Mark Ritchie (ph) and the canvassing board ignored outright inconsistencies in the vote count and delivered inconsistent rulings against inconsistent standards. Well that brings us to tonight's poll. Do you think the Senate needs another comedian? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
Turning overseas to another challenge facing President-elect Obama, the war between Israel and Hamas, Israeli troops tonight are moving deeper into Gaza as Israel's air and ground offensive against Hamas enters its 11th day. But Hamas continues to fire rockets into Israel. Nic Robertson reports now from the Israeli/Gaza border. Nic, what is the latest?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Lou, we can still hear jet planes flying overhead, the occasional explosion exchange of gunfire behind me in the northern end of the Gaza Strip, but a little further south in Gaza City, that is where the action is centered around Israeli troops appearing to get closer to possibly moving deeper into that city.
This is something they've been holding back from doing, because it means fighting in a built-up urban environment, which is potential very deadly for them, potentially very deadly for civilians. Israel's defense force has sent recorded messages, telephone messages to the residents of Gaza, telling them that Hamas is using them as human shields.
They've dropped leaflets, telling people, telling the residents to move away from the outskirts of the city and move toward the center of the city, a tough thing for them to do at this time, Lou, but inside the city, the hospital has become the focus for much of the activity as many casualties have been brought in.
According to doctors there of the 100 people who have been brought in dead since the ground incursion began two and a half days ago, 30 of them have been children, 20 of them have been women, and the doctors say they believe all the casualties they're seeing are in fact civilians. Also according to the U.N., 75 percent of the electricity off in Gaza, according to the U.N. as well a third of the wells providing water in the Gaza Strip also not working at this time, but Hamas still firing its rockets into Israel, more than 40 fired today. No casualties in Israel, but the -- but Hamas vowing to continue their fight, saying that Israel isn't telling the truth about its casualties so far -- Lou.
DOBBS: Irrespective of the truth about casualties on both sides, what is the sense within Israel itself? Is there sufficient political will and support for this military action or is Israel facing the possibility of a divided will amongst its people?
ROBERTSON: Well, it certainly has the political will right now, Lou. The position here is that as long as these missiles are being fired -- and there are a million Israeli civilians who are within range of the Hamas rockets -- and as we're here seeing those rockets come out and hearing the sirens going off yesterday two civilians were killed, so there's certainty the political will to keep up this battle against Hamas. And there is the popular -- there is the popular support as well. It was much more popular when it was just an air campaign. Of course, so many people here have relatives, if not children in the armed forces. There's a great deal of concern as the soldiers get engaged in what in some cases is very close combat with Hamas. So the concerns grow at this time, but there is still wide support. There certainly hasn't been big dissent yet for this operation so far, Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, thank you very much -- Nic Robertson reporting.
Well, the president today gave Israel unequivocal support of its offensive against Hamas. President Bush said Hamas caused this crisis and Hamas must not be allowed to launch rockets into Israel again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know people are saying let's have a cease-fire and those are noble ambitions. But any cease-fire must have the conditions in it so that Hamas does not use Gaza as a place from which to launch rockets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, no statement yet from the president-elect on this crisis. The president-elect today declared it is important that everyone remember there is only one president at a time, as he put it, on foreign affairs issues.
Up next, much more on the scandals and the distractions in the Democratic Party, as the president-elect prepares to take office.
And a new push to raise gasoline taxes just as Americans are beginning to benefit from a break from in those soaring energy costs, we'll tell you all about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The price of gasoline is about half what it was a year ago. Middle-class Americans in the midst of the worst economic crisis in decades relieved there is relief at the pump, but some economists, environmentalists and members of the incoming Obama administration are saying the low cost of gasoline is a problem for the country and the federal government could help out, by hiking gas taxes. Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No sooner do gasoline prices fall than the chorus calling for higher gas taxes begin to rise. Cheap gas it seems is a bad idea to some including President-elect Obama's pick for energy secretary.
Steven Chu (ph) is on record as favoring higher gas taxes. He even told "The Wall Street Journal" in September, quote, "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe." He's hardly alone. A bipartisan commission appointed by Congress, The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure Financing is reportedly ready to recommend a 10-cent per gallon hike in the federal gas tax and a 12 to 15 cent hike in the federal diesel tax. Environmental groups have added their voices.
CHARLES KOMANOFF, CARBON TAX CENTER: The higher the gasoline tax or the higher the carbon tax, the more response there is going to be by consumers and by industry to come up with cleaner forms of fuel.
TUCKER: The goals vary to fund infrastructure projects, discourage demand for fossil fuels and encourage development for alternative fuels. Critics of a hike in the gas tax say there's a problem with the logic.
BEN LIEBERMAN, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I think an example for us to look at is Europe, which has gas taxes in the range of $4 a gallon just the tax alone and they haven't gotten any further than the U.S. in terms of developing alternatives, so I think what we get with higher gas taxes is higher gas taxes.
TUCKER: In Europe a gallon of gas now averages $5.11 versus $1.67 here. All of this tax hike talk is a far cry from what we heard from Obama's rivals on the primary campaign trail.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I want to give you a gas tax holiday.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I believe that a gas tax holiday would give them some immediate relief.
TUCKER: For now, at least, Americans have the sort of change they can believe in.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now I tried reaching President-elect Obama's transition team for a comment, but they didn't respond. Obama so far has stayed away from talking about any tax hike and besides, Lou, price of crude is up 38 percent since Christmas.
DOBBS: Yes, taking obviously a direction that apparently the new energy secretary could approve of.
TUCKER: Exactly.
DOBBS: If not the rest of us. Thank you very much, Bill Tucker.
Well the government of Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez today reneged on a promise to provide free heating oil to needy Americans. That program was run by the American nonprofit headed up by Joe Kennedy II (ph) and Citgo, a subsidiary of Venezuela's state oil company. Citgo citing falling crude oil prices on the global economic crisis as the reason for its suspension of the program.
And Joe Kennedy (ph), for his part, urged Americans to write letters, beseeching letters, if you will, to Chavez to tell them their stories, trying to convince him to change his decision and to give them their fuel. Kennedy has been criticized for making a deal with the anti-American Chavez government. We'll see what happens now.
Sales at the nation's carmakers down more than 30 percent in December; it's the worst year for the industry since 1992. Remarkably General Motors' 31 percent decline in sales was better than expected. A 39 percent loss had been forecast and for the first time in its history as a public company, Toyota reporting a sharp decline in sales of 37 percent.
Ford reporting a 32 percent drop in December sales. Privately held Chrysler sales plunging 53 percent, far worse than what Wall Street had been expecting, Honda and Nissan also reporting dramatic declines in sales, both tumbling about 33 percent.
Looking regionally at car sales, the southeastern part of the country is where sales are the toughest, with inventories sitting on lots there for the longest period of time. The Southwest is next, taking 71 days there for a car to sell, followed by the West, then the Midwest, and finally the Northeast, where it takes 59 days for a car to sell, on average.
And so far this past year, it took a car just about 67 days on the lot to sell. That research by the way provided by J.D. Power and Associates, we should point out.
And up next here, could the Obama economic stimulus plan actually make things worse? I'll be talking with an economic historian and author who says the stimulus plan could be bad for the country.
And with just two weeks before inauguration the Obama team facing a rash of Democratic scandals, we'll have that report and a great deal more, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: With only 15 days remaining before the presidential inauguration, the Obama transition team is being distracted by a number of serious issues, being forced to deal with Democratic Party scandals and downright bad behavior. The scandals have forced a cabinet nominee to step down and tainted the nomination of a new senator from Illinois. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson withdrew as Barack Obama's commerce secretary nominee because of a pay to play investigation that sounds like something out of his childhood home in old Mexico, a big donor, a lucrative state contract and now a federal inquiry.
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: I withdrew because I felt -- I didn't want a possible inquiry going on to delay the enormous progress we need to rebuild this economy.
WIAN: And in Illinois, another headache for the incoming Obama administration isn't going so quietly. Roland Burris, the choice of embattled Governor Rod Blagojevich to fill Obama's Senate seat is demanding to be sworn in despite the objection of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Reid is denying claims by Blagojevich that he expressed skepticism about the future electability of another black senator from Illinois.
ROLAND BURRIS (D), SENATE APPOINTEE: Well I cannot control my supporters. I have never in my life in all of my years have been elected to office thought anything about race. I've been elected four times in the state of Illinois.
WIAN: Burris says the Lord has ordained his selection. A less lofty authority Minnesota Secretary of State Mark Ritchie has now declared fellow Democrat and former "Saturday Night Live" cast member Al Franken as the winner of that state's Senate race.
MARK RITCHIE, MINNESOTA SECY. OF STATE: We will declare the results of the November 4th election.
WIAN: On election night Franken trailed incumbent Republican Norm Coleman by 215 votes. After weeks of counting, recounting, and according to the Coleman campaign double counting, Franken now has a 225-vote lead.
Then there's New York Senator Secretary of State nominee and Washington investigation veteran Hillary Clinton who's under a new cloud. "The New York Times" reports that a New York developer donated $100,000 to a Bill Clinton foundation, around the same time Senator Clinton helped the developer secure financing for a construction project. A spokesman for Senator Clinton says there was no connection between the donation and her legislative work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: All of this makes Democratic strategist and CNN contributor James Carville seem prophetic. On Friday he wrote that, quote "Political scandals happen in clusters" and he expects plenty involving Democrats this year -- Lou.
DOBBS: He exempted, however we should point out, the president- elect from that, correct?
WIAN: Absolutely and you know people who study the issue of ethics in government we spoke with today said that they don't expect any of these scandals, at least so far to impact President-elect Obama's ability to govern, but they certainly are disturbing.
DOBBS: And unfortunately seem like a continuation of what the Democrats were just -- was it just a little over two years ago -- calling the Republican culture of corruption? Thank you very much, Casey Wian.
Well time now to take a look at some of your thoughts. Ted in Kentucky: "Why does our government find it so hard to fix our money problems? Can't we increase import taxes so our factories have a chance of staying in the United States? Then people will have jobs and pay their bills and get loans and buy cars. Am I just crazy?" No, you're just out of step with the free trade mantra. And S. in Minnesota said: "I noted with a bit of humor that the vocal minority in Minnesota wanted to make sure every vote counted so that no one was disenfranchised with absolutely no concern about eligibility to vote. With no real mechanism in place to prevent voter fraud, in this or any state, I wonder how that has affected the nation's elections."
Well, Dan in Massachusetts said: "It's time you volunteered to be the new secretary of commerce." No, thank you.
We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit", now available in paperback.
Up next, new indications that the hype over global warming may be based on inexact science and inexact assessment of facts.
We'll have that report, hold your breath, don't get excited all of you enthusiasts for or against global warming. Just the facts coming up.
And will excessive government intervention in the economy actually make this recession worse? One of my guests tonight, Amity Shlaes, author of the provocative "New History of the Great Depression," says just that.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. News, debate and opinion.
Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Welcome back.
President-elect Obama now says he will include $300 billion of tax cuts to help fix our economic crisis, but critics now say the president-elect's recovery plan still focuses far too much on government spending.
Joining me now to discuss the economy and the president-elect's stimulus package response is Amity Shlaes. She's from the Council on Foreign Relations, also a syndicated columnist, and the author of the important book, "The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression," which says, in part, that the government made the Depression even worse with some of its policies and too exact followed by this administration could do precisely the same thing.
Great to have you with us, Amity.
AMITY SHLAES, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Thank you.
DOBBS: Let's start with the president-elect's proposal for $300 billion. It looks like, if you will, in political (INAUDIBLE), somebody's greasing the skids to put that forward, but there --- but at least it's $300 billion in tax cuts.
You've got to believe that's a good thing, right?
SHLAES: I do believe it's a good thing, but overall to view it as a stimulus is a little bit destructive, Lou, because we have longer-term problems in this economy. And if we say, oh we'll just stimulate $1 trillion worth, that's like giving a transfusion to a man instead of curing him. He looks good for a few hours, then what happens after?
DOBBS: Well, you know, that's an important question, but -- I mean also -- and I hate -- I'm not going to get bogged down into this metaphor of a sick economy and damaged and all this, but the president -- the language the president-elect was using today.
But it does bring up the issue that seems -- that disturbs me frankly. And that is all of the talk about the economy that in these dramatic terms, which is obviously the public dialogue trying to advance a legislative agenda.
But meanwhile, the president-elect is doing what the president has done, talked down the economy, talked down our markets for the purpose of a legislative agenda rather than dealing with the economic reality.
What is the economic reality here?
SHLAES: The economic reality is that the U.S. is a relatively attractive country that could recover with in a year or so if we put a sign on our cells that says "open for business," big new SEC that will manage all these products, clear laws, low tax rates, come here, invest, have your IPOs here.
That's the reality. And even -- you know, everyone knows that. The question is why can't we get far enough to, to make it possible and actually the Obama administration's plan to have this tax cut is the first step toward that, but we need much more clarity.
We need, for example, simple low corporate tax, much lower capital gains tax at five percent. Everyone is going to say that's a political impossibility, but Lou, a lot of things that sounded politically impossible last year are now possible.
DOBBS: Well, we're looking at, by some estimates, to this point, some $8.5 trillion in federal intervention. I mean, think about that. By -- in any -- by any term that is astounding. $5 trillion pledged, which the American taxpayer is -- liable. Over $2 trillion in the commercial paper market. $3 trillion lost in the housing market.
The numbers are overwhelming, and yet the numbers keep being added. I say numbers. We're talking about money and real money.
Where does it end?
SHLAES: It's one of the things I've been writing about and talking about, for example, in our "Forgotten Man" blog at the Council on Foreign Relations, and it said perhaps inflation, of course, will follow this, because that money has to go somewhere. We don't see it today, but we'll see it soon.
And also, you know, what we learned from the '30s, what I learned researching this book over years and years and years is government intervention usually doesn't work. The economy comes back by itself if it's allowed to, if it has a stable certain situation.
And when you have a big arbitrary experiment, which is what we have, you prolong it.
DOBBS: Why is there never the reflex to experiment on the side of the working man and woman, the middle class in this country, which is the foundation of the country. More than a year ago, I called for government intervention in the housing market, because that's where this crisis began.
We could have spent $200 billion, which by some standards would be a lot of money, but in the context of $8.5 trillion is almost nothing. $200 billion would have paid off the mortgages of every person foreclosed in the past year.
Why in the world are we not thinking in terms of direct intervention and support of the working person in this country, the working man and woman, the middle class who deserve help far before, long before Hank Paulson's buddies on Wall Street?
SHLAES: Well, the -- the signal failure of our generation was the failure to halt Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, these big institutions that created this culture of everyone gets a house no matter what.
Why doesn't it happen? I don't know. The "Forgotten Man" of now is the man who paid his mortgage even though he...
DOBBS: Right.
SHLAES: ... couldn't really afford it, maybe didn't buy the car, and will now definitely have to pay higher taxes to subsidize the neighbor who couldn't deal with his mortgage, didn't pay it, didn't care.
We feel sorry for the neighbor, but should the man who did pay subsidize the other guy? That's the question. "The Forgotten Man."
DOBBS: We're not going to forget any man or woman working in this country ever on this broadcast, and you're welcome back anytime, Amity. Thanks for being here in this place.
SHLAES: Thank you.
DOBBS: Up next here, Democratic scandals creating a few distractions for the Obama transition team, and new stumbling blocks on the president-elect's path to power.
I'll be joined by four of the country's top political analysts here next. And new evidence contradicting global warming theories? Don't get excited. I know. Get ready with the -- those e-mails and letters. We're going to have a special report. We're focusing on the facts. We invite you to do the same here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The issue of global warming is, of course, a controversial and divisive topic, and it has been such for some time.
This broadcast has, on occasion, been criticized by either side for challenging global warming theories or simply saying why not accept the idea of global warming as a basis for stewardship of the planet?
Either way somebody gets offended.
Well, tonight, relax, we have another report for you. And all of who you believe in global warming will be challenged and the facts, if you're not interested in the facts, you shouldn't pay attention as Ines Ferre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A confusing picture of our world's climate. Three independent research groups found that 2008 was the ninth or tenth warmest year since 1850 when recordkeeping began, but it also was the coolest year since the turn of the 21st century.
New data from the University of Illinois says ice levels are roughly the same as those seen 29 years ago. But after decades of icemelts in the Arctic, that may be of little comfort. The increase is because of the formation of thin ice which melts easily once the winter is over.
Even so, one climatologist skeptical of global warming feels the entire debate is muddled with selective data.
JOSEPH D'ALEO, CLIMATOLOGIST: We are too short-sighted or certainly the -- those who believe in it are not looking at all the big picture which needs to include other factors than natural cycles in the ocean and of the sun.
There are the real drivers.
FERRE: NASA scientists report that more than 2 trillion tons of land ice in Greenland, the Arctic and Antarctic have melted since 2003.
Some farmers fear future regulations on greenhouse gas emissions could include what could amount to a cow tax. The United Nations calculates livestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions worldwide.
PAT MICHAELS, CATO INSTITUTE: Extremism and the pursuit of climate policy is certainly no virtue. And what's really going on is we have rather a moderate increase in temperature, so why would one jump off the bridge and take money away from people?
FERRE: The Environmental Protection Agency says methane, a greenhouse gas associated with livestock, is not being considered for regulation at this point.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FERRE: There are also more questions over claims that so-called global warming is manmade. Scientists are looking at sunspot activity. They're linking the presence or absence of sunspots to warmer or cooler temperatures on earth. Lou?
DOBBS: Yes, the one, the one issue here, and as we have examined and reported on the issue of global warming, it is so clear that on both sides, but particularly the pro-global warming, if there is such a thing, if I can put it that way, they are -- they bring this thing to a personal belief system. It's almost a religion, without any question.
And what we're watching now, we're, what, the second year of the solar sunspot activity cycle, an 11-year cycle, and many scientists are saying, my gosh, compared to what our sun can do, man has minuscule influence.
FERRE: And there's some scientists that say, for example, last year there were 266 days out of all of last year that there was no sunspot activity. And so they're saying now this is going to indicate cooler temperatures on earth.
But yes, I mean, people are very passionate about this topic.
DOBBS: Well, and passionate. We're all concerned about this planet. We're concerned about our atmosphere, our air, our water and our children's futures, but there seems to be such a crowding out of facts and objective assessment of those facts, and as the scientists, the climatologist in your report suggests, there's such selective choices of data as one discusses and tries to understand the reality of the issue that is make up global warming.
Thank you very much, Ines Ferre. Nice job.
FERRE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Up next, comedian Al Franken is now, at least according to the state -- the state's secretary of state for Minnesota, the new senator from Minnesota, but is that really what's going on here? Will that disputed race be finally resolved in court? What happens next?
And another Senate showdown looming with the arrival of a man named Roland Burris. Is he really the junior senator from Illinois?
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Joining me now four of the best political minds, all CNN contributors, joining me now Republican strategist Ed Rollins, formerly White House political director under President Reagan, chair of the Mike Huckabee campaign last year. We all remember that vividly, of course.
Pulitzer Price winning columnist, Michael Goodwin, of the ""New York Daily News." Great to have you with us.
Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman, Democratic National Committee-man. Great to have you with us.
And syndicated columnist, Miguel Perez, also a professor of journalism at Lehman College in New York. Good to have you with us.
Let's, let's turn first -- are we going to have a junior senator from the state of Illinois recognized tomorrow, Miguel?
PROF. MIGUEL PEREZ, LEHMAN COLLEGE, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Somebody is already writing a script for a made-for-TV movie called "Mr. Burris Goes to Washington."
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: I like it. I like it.
PEREZ: But yes, I -- look, they should let him have his seat.
DOBBS: You think so?
PEREZ: I believe so. I mean, they're making a big spectacle out of nothing. I really -- really believe that they should let the guy have his seat. Now they're -- they're already talking about conditions. Maybe they'll let him sit there for two years on the condition that he doesn't run for reelection. So.
DOBBS: Yes. What do you think...
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: You know...
DOBBS: ... Mr. National Committee-man?
ZIMMERMAN: With the war raging in Gaza, with war in Afghanistan, in Iraq, with -- the economy in the worst situation since the Great Depression, this hardly qualifies as a spectacle. This is a distraction.
DOBBS: Harry Reid has made it so.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think, very frankly, Rod Blagojevich made it so. And I think...
DOBBS: He made it complicated.
ZIMMERMAN: OK. That's for sure. But I think realistically, I think what's going to happen is that -- the process he might be seated but I think the process ultimately counts for more than whether Mr. Burris does sit in the Senate. And I think he compromises...
DOBBS: Does the law have any role here?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, you know, it's an interesting question about what the law is. The secretary of state, an African-American Jesse White from Illinois refuses to certify Mr. Burris' appointment. And in fact, I think until that's done and this is tried in the courts, there won't be a solution.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it just points to the reason why there should be special elections rather than gubernatorial appointments. We've got these things going all over the country now and...
DOBBS: Just for coming clear, we're giving our chief executives far too much power.
GOODWIN: Absolutely. That's how you would look at it, whoa, why do we that?
But, look, I mean -- I think that -- we're talking about a two- year term. I mean that's the entire term for a House of Representatives member. Why should we allow anyone to be appointed? Why don't we just appoint all of the House while we're at it?
I think elections are how we put people in Congress not through appointments.
DOBBS: You could be starting a movement here.
GOODWIN: There you go.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I'm always in favor of elections. And I think it's -- the more competition we have, the better it is.
In this particular case, the governor has the power. He's still the governor, the legislature could have impeached him two weeks ago, three weeks ago, a year ago. The U.S. attorney could have indicted him. He hasn't done that.
He still has the power. He named this man. This man is qualified to be a United States senator and they should seat him.
DOBBS: Let's turn to, to another Senate seat, and that, of course, David Paterson, the governor of New York. Caroline Kennedy is almost subside in the public consciousness, hasn't she?
ROLLINS: Well, she's self-destructive and she had -- she -- it's what's called overexposure when you're not prepared for primetime. And I think every day that she went out and tried to sell herself which is a lobbying campaign, not a political campaign, that should diminish her chances.
GOODWIN: Look, I -- she should not -- her name should not be held against her. But there has to be more to her than her name. And as -- the more she spoke, the more it became clear, her name was all she had to offer New Yorkers.
DOBBS: By the way, I want to compliment you on your column on -- Caroline Kennedy. I -- haven't done that. Being away on vacation, I was still rooting.
Michael Goodwin, it's a brilliant column.
The idea that this woman -- how many times did she say you know in the course of a...
(CROSSTALK)
GOODWIN: As many as 200 in some of those half-hour interviews.
DOBBS: How can the -- what in the world is going on here?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, it's even worse when she wasn't answering questions, when she's only giving written submissions, written answers from the press.
Every tactic she pursued has demonstrated that she really doesn't have the leadership or the vision to be United States senator and the new strategy which is to claim she's the BFF of the president-elect. For those of us without kids or texters, that means best friends forever.
DOBBS: Right.
ZIMMERMAN: Or as Kevin Sheekey, Mayor Bloomberg's chief aide, said it'd be malpractice not to appoint someone that close to the president, that's a juvenile analysis.
Chuck Schumer is not going to be ignored this time.
DOBBS: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's hear his name again and let's hear what he said again?
ZIMMERMAN: Kevin Sheekey who is the mayor's chief political strategist and one of the chief -- principal strategists for Barack Obama, for rather -- excuse me, for Caroline Kennedy, made the point it'd be political malpractice if she wasn't appointed.
It's political malpractice to take his reasoning as being sound political logic.
DOBBS: What do you thin? What's the reason that Bloomberg got behind Caroline Kennedy, turns over one of his top operatives, and gets so invested in -- well, what is it, a wealthy person to wealthy person kind of thing?
(LAUGHTER)
PEREZ: Well, look, I've been around New York politics long enough to remember when being a grassroots leader, going up through the ranks meant something. Learning the system, earning your way there. That is not happening anymore. I mean we have so many celebrity politicians that get there and taking the shortcut. It's unfair. And I think the -- it would backfire on the governor if he was to appoint her.
ROLLINS: Well, it's a very loud message. You could roll him. She wasn't his first choice in any way, shape or form. She wasn't on the list, but you put enough pressure on, you could roll him. That's not a very good message for the governor of the state.
ZIMMERMAN: And it's not going to work with this governor. I don't think he's going to be rolled. He's got a very wide spectrum of very qualified candidates.
DOBBS: By the way, I think we should give our good friend and colleague here, Robert Zimmerman, credit. The Democratic National Committee man, Democratic strategist from the outset has said David Paterson would not be rolled on this issue.
ZIMMERMAN: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: We'll be back with our panel in just a moment. But first, at the top of the hour, "CAMPBELL BROWN, NO BIAS, NO BULL."
Campbell, what are you working on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, Lou. Happy New Year to you.
DOBBS: Happy New Year.
BROWN: We are watching tonight's breaking news in Washington where Roland Burris has just arrived to claim the U.S. Senate seat from Illinois. Senate Democrats, though, don't want to give it to him.
We're going to have the latest on the showdown that is shaping up there. We're also taking a "NO BIAS, NO BULL" look at the very latest numbers and the latest politics behind the tax cuts added to President-elect Obama's economic recovery plan.
Also, we will give you the very latest from what's happening overseas. Israel and Gaza. We have people in the ground there. We'll be updating you on everything happening there as well.
We're live at the top of the hour, Lou.
DOBBS: Look forward to it. Thanks, Campbell.
Up next, more with our panel. We'll have the results from our poll. You can't miss any of this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We're back with our panel. Let me start, Miguel Perez, if I may with you. The president supporting very clearly Israel against Hamas. The president-elect saying nothing only that there's only one president and offering no voice here.
Is that the right tact for him to take?
PEREZ: Well, it is the right tact if he was not acting as the president on other issues when -- the Mumbai and the -- bombing of India occurred, he did express an opinion. And so now there's a conflict there and he doesn't look too good in that case.
But you know, he -- really should stay out. And if anything, he should back President Bush -- President Bush's position, in my opinion, rather than, you know, stay away because some people...
DOBBS: That's a great point.
PEREZ: Some people may interpret his silence as saying something.
DOBBS: Exactly.
ZIMMERMAN: You know what fair is, everything Barack Obama has said during the course of the campaign is really completely in solidarity with Israel's position and with the Bush administration's positions.
I don't think we have to worry about that. I think it's really quite -- I think what's important to note going forward is making sure we speak with one voice as a nation or respecting the theory of one president.
DOBBS: And despite what the United Nations is saying and -- and some sort of marginal response, I would say, in Europe, the United States has been, it seems to me, strongly supportive of Israel here without any suggestion of any breach or diminution of that support on the horizon.
I'd like to turn to another part -- another aspect of the Obama administration, Robert, and that is we've been hearing that Bill White, a gay man and also the head of the Intrepid Aerospace Museum here in New York, would be naval secretary -- be appointed secretary of the Navy. We've heard nothing here in recent weeks.
ZIMMERMAN: There's been no appointment made. My sources tell me his name is being talked about seriously for that position and a host of other positions in defense. He's an exceptional man, extraordinary patriot. And it'd be a great -- tribute for the Obama administration to appoint him.
DOBBS: Yes, I -- frankly, I couldn't agree with you more. He has done so much for our wounded warriors, our-- all of our services, just an outstanding American.
GOODWIN: But it'd certainly be a dramatic statement about Don't Ask Don't Tell? DOBBS: Well, it could be all of that and I...
(CROSSTALK)
GOODWIN: Bill is a friend of most of us at this table if not all of us. And I -- I've been privy to some of these -- people who are supporting him. And he has some of the most significant military people, four-star generals, what have you, who is supporting him for being part of this administration. And it's a great tribute to him and I think it'd be great tribute to this administration if he had a major role in it.
DOBBS: Well said. And I think we can all say "here, here."
Want to turn to one last -- one last thought. And that is thank you all very much for being here. We appreciate it.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: And can't wait to see this year progress. Happy New Year to you.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Cheers to all of you.
Tonight's poll results which follow Al Franken's declaration of victory in the still disputed Senate race in Minnesota. 65 percent of you respond saying the Senate does not need another comedian. Sorry, Al.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Tonight from New York, "CAMPBELL BROWN, NO BIAS, NO BULL" starts right now.
