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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Burris Refused Entry; Obama's Big Push; Trillion-Dollar Deficit
Aired January 06, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, political theater on Capitol Hill throughout the day, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid preventing Roland Burris from being seated as the junior senator from Illinois. Is this what Senator Reid calls political leadership?
Also tonight, lobbyists, special interests and corporate America, all combining trying to grab a chunk of the president-elect's new stimulus package for the economy.
And also tonight, the state of New Jersey wants to give illegal aliens driver's licenses. Other states have tried, have failed, most would even -- would not even consider it. And the Homeland Security Department says they shouldn't be permitted. We'll have that story, all of that, all the day's news, a lot more, from an independent perspective, straight ahead, right here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Tuesday, January 6th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid today refused to allow Roland Burris to be seated in the U.S. Senate. Senator Reid insisted that Burris has no right to be sworn in after his appointment by disgraced Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich.
Burris, who would be the only black senator, is now considering a federal lawsuit, all of this a distraction from the president-elect's agenda. The president-elect today saying the country faces now trillion dollar budget deficits for years -- Louise Schiavone now reporting on the deadlock over Roland Burris.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As its newest members were making their way to the rarefied atmosphere of the chamber of the United States Senate, one man was standing outside in the rain.
ROLAND BURRIS (D), SENATE APPOINTEE: Members of the media, my name is Roland Burris, the junior senator from the state of Illinois. I presented my credentials to the secretary of the Senate and advised that my credentials were not in order.
SCHIAVONE: At issue, the appointment of Roland Burris to the Senate seat vacated by the president-elect, by a governor accused of but not indicted or convicted of trying to sell the Senate seat. Burris is not implicated in that investigation and his lawyers say today's Senate action will not stand.
TIMOTHY WRIGHT, BURRIS ATTORNEY: We were not allowed to be placed in a record book. We were not allowed to proceed to the floor for purposes of taking oath. All of which we think was improperly done, and it is against the law of this land.
SCHIAVONE: Burris supporters and the Congressional Black Caucus say it is all too reminiscent of struggles gone by.
REP. DONALD PAYNE (D), NEW JERSEY: It will certainly give you flashbacks to history. Certainly have been times in the history of this country where people have been denied access to places that they legitimately should have had a right to go.
SCHIAVONE: This prominent image-maker says these scenes from the new Congress are not a good way to begin.
JERRY DELLA FEMINA, ADVERTISING EXECUTIVE: Everything that the day was supposed to be, which was about victory and change -- well, there's not much change with an African-American, qualified African- American who has been nominated for the Senate by his governor, is turned away at the door.
SCHIAVONE: The Senate majority leader says if the Illinois governor's appointment of Burris is certified...
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: The Senate will proceed in a manner that is respectful to Mr. Burris while ensuring that there's no cloud of doubt over the appointment to fill this seat.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: But, Lou, a leadership source tells me that if Burris makes it to the floor to present his credentials there will be a procedural effort to shuttle that appointment to the Rules Committee to further examine the circumstances of the Burris appointment. That could take 90 days.
Meanwhile, Senator Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, late today issued a statement calling on the leadership to seat Mr. Burris. Lou, I've just finished talking to Julian Bond, the head of the NAACP, who tells me that tomorrow the NAACP will issue a statement in support of the legitimacy of the appointment of Roland Burris.
DOBBS: All of that you know is heartening, I'm sure for Roland Burris. The fact that Senator Dianne Feinstein has stepped out in opposition to, you know, I will say it straight forwardly. I -- there is no basis in law for any position taken here by the Senate majority leader or the Democratic leadership or the senior senator from Illinois Dick Durbin.
What they're doing is an outrage against law and fairness. There is no equivocation. There is no gray area here. It is straightforward. How in the world does Senator Reid expect to prevail in this confrontation? SCHIAVONE: Senator Reid is convinced that Article 1, Section V of the Constitution enables the Senate to seat whom the Senate chooses to seat. Now, that was tested with Adam Clayton Powell's election to the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Adam Clayton Powell being seated and legal experts that we have spoken to believe the same thing is going to happen, if such a case goes to court involving Roland Burris.
DOBBS: Yeah, if we are to be a nation of laws, one would think that the majority leader of the United States Senate would be foremost in defending that Constitution and those laws, rather than carrying on a spectacle of this sort, much to the embarrassment of the institution of the Senate and the Democratic Party. At least that's my opinion. Louise, thank you very much -- Louise Schiavone.
Well in the disputed Senate race in Minnesota, Republican incumbent Norm Coleman today declared he will challenge Democrat Al Franken's declaration of victory. Speaking in St. Paul, Minnesota, Coleman said he won't accept a canvassing board's determination that Franken had prevailed in the race by just 225 votes out of almost three million votes cast. Senator Coleman said he will file the lawsuit against that decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORM COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA SEN. CANDIDATE: Democracy is not a machine. It's run by people working to obey the law as best they can. Sometimes it's messy and inconvenient and reaching the best conclusion is never quick because speed is not the first objective, fairness is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Speed perhaps more important to Senator Coleman when he was possessing a 215-point lead at the outset. Franken declared victory in the race yesterday, but he was not sworn in with new senators on Capitol Hill today, in part, we are told, because of the confrontation with Roland Burris and the appearance of inconsistency and contradiction on the part of the Senate had he been seated.
President-elect Obama today stepped up his efforts to convince lawmakers to support an almost $1 trillion economic stimulus package, but he said he will not allow lawmakers to add any earmarks or pork to the package. The president-elect says he has a bigger mandate than President Clinton did 16 years ago. Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hello Chicago.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Barack Obama got a bigger majority and a bigger mandate than Bill Clinton did when he first took office. But Mr. Obama is not behaving as if he has a partisan mandate.
OBAMA: We don't have a Republican or a Democratic problem, we've got American problems.
SCHNEIDER: In 1993, President Clinton supported an economic stimulus bill that raised taxes for high-income Americans. The bill passed without a single Republican vote. President-elect Obama's plan includes $300 billion in tax cuts, about 40 percent of the total cost. If this is a play for Republican support, it's working.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), OHIO: I think we're glad that the president-elect believes that tax cuts are, in fact, stimulative.
SCHNEIDER: Are the tax cuts motivated by politics?
OBAMA: The notion that me wanting to include relief for working families in this plan is somehow a political ploy when this is -- was a centerpiece of my economic plan for the last two years doesn't make too much sense.
SCHNEIDER: Mr. Obama did promise tax relief from middle class Americans, but the stimulus plan also includes more than $100 billion in tax cuts for businesses, a political move to win over the Chamber of Commerce? He calls it something else.
OBAMA: A happy convergence between what I had pledged during the campaign and what's required for the economy right now.
SCHNEIDER: But another happy convergence. It also happens to be good politics.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: To the extent that it passes with a very large vote, it will have more credibility with the American people and the way it's likely to pass with a very large vote is to have significant Republican participation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Democrats tend to prefer public spending, which can be targeted at public needs. Republicans prefer tax cuts, so taxpayers can spend more of their own money. The Obama approach -- let's do both. That gets kind of expensive, Lou.
DOBBS: It does get expensive and it becomes less than artful politics. If the issue is not here to constrain spending for American citizens to be able to save more of their money and to begin actually saving money and for the government to do as well...
SCHNEIDER: That's right.
DOBBS: The president at the same -- president-elect at the same time talking about trillion dollar deficits for several years, at the same time talking about fiscal responsibility -- this isn't a happy convergence, it's absolutely contradictory.
SCHNEIDER: Well, the only thing I can say is he's appointing tomorrow a new official in the White House, a chief performance officer to try to keep some kind of control over the budget, for one man to do that is going to be quite a performance. DOBBS: I suppose that that leaves open the question of why we would need a director of the Office of Management and Budget, but perhaps for another day we'll discuss that.
SCHNEIDER: OK.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Bill Schneider.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: Well Senator Dianne Feinstein today said President-elect Obama had apologized for not informing her ahead of time that he wanted Leon Panetta to be his CIA director. Vice President-elect Joe Biden today acknowledged it was a mistake not to give Senator Feinstein and others previous notice. Senator Feinstein is the incoming chairman of the Senate Intelligent Committee. She has not said whether or not she will in fact support the president-elect's choice.
One of the biggest foreign policy challenges facing the new national security team will be the war between Israel and Hamas. Israeli troops supported by aircraft and artillery today intensifying the offensive against Hamas terrorists in Gaza.
The Israeli military today saying it shelled a school being used as a base by a terrorist mortar team. That school was also a shelter for hundreds of Palestinian civilians. The United Nations school strike by artillery, Israeli artillery, killed at least 40 people, many of them civilians.
President-elect Obama today said he's very concerned about the civilian deaths in both Gaza and Israel, but he then declined to express any detailed opinion about what is happening in the war and how to end the fighting. Ed Henry has our report from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his most extensive comments yet on the crisis in Gaza, President-elect Barack Obama vowed to get actively engaged in the Mideast, but not until after he is sworn in.
OBAMA: I am deeply concerned about the conflict that's taking place there. The loss of civilian life in Gaza and in Israel is a source of deep concern to me. And after January 20th, I'm going to have plenty to say about the issue.
HENRY: He's in listening mode until then. Another phone briefing from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Mr. Obama will be front and center at an historic White House meeting Wednesday, getting counsel from all four of his living predecessors.
AARON DAVID MILLER, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: It seems to me the ghosts of the past will be everywhere in tomorrow's meeting. I'm just hoping that President-elect Obama draws the right lessons. HENRY: Former Mideast negotiator Aaron Miller believes the incoming commander in chief can learn a lot, in particular from the first President Bush and former President Carter.
MILLER: I think the message from Bush 41 and Carter will be, look, you can be Israel's best friend, and we are but you also have to be tough, smart and fair, and if you are, you'll be able to get in the game. That is the lesson it seems to me, to be drawn from the last four decades of American policy.
HENRY: In fact, Mr. Obama is vowing to get in the game from his first day in office.
OBAMA: We are going to engage effectively and consistently in trying to resolve the conflicts that exist in the Middle East. That's something that I'm committed to. So on January 20th, you will be hearing directly from me and my opinions on this issue. Until then, my job is to monitor the situation, put together the best possible national security team so that we hit the ground running.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Now, for now, the president-elect's advisers say he has no choice but to hold back comment on how he would end this crisis. They say he's not in charge yet so he's not making U.S. foreign policy yet and should not be sending confusing signals around the world. Nevertheless, that silence is still sparking a lot of questions about exactly what he would do differently than the Bush administration to deal with this crisis -- Lou.
DOBBS: It has been 60 years since the founding of Israel. The conflict has raged since then. One would think that some patience would be in order over the course of less than what is now two weeks until inauguration. As to the lessons, Ed that could be learned from those four previous presidents, one has to take note that none of them was successful in mediating a peace process and a peace resolution between Israel and the Palestinians, so perhaps the most that he could learn not from any one, but all four, would be from the mistakes of the previous presidents. What do you think?
HENRY: Well absolutely. I mean obviously Jimmy Carter was the least able to move the ball forward between Israel and the Egyptians. You saw President Bush 41, the former President Bush, in Madrid in 1991, brought Israel together with all its Arab neighbors for the first time in some 40 years, but as you say it moved the ball forward, but in the end it didn't get the job done.
Bill Clinton, of course, had that famous handshake, Arafat and Rabin at the beginning of his administration, but at the end at Camp David had a spectacular failure. So there have been a lot of near misses and obviously there are a lot of lessons to be learned, Lou.
DOBBS: And there have been far more Nobel Peace Prizes awarded to those discussing the peace process than there have been tangible results to that process, unfortunately. Perhaps the president-elect when he takes office will have greater success. We will all wish him such. Thank you very much -- Ed Henry from the White House.
Up next, lobbyists and special interests in a frenzy over the president-elect's plan to spend almost $1 trillion trying to stimulate our morbid economy and the president-elect presenting a grim outlook for the nation's budget deficit, not just for this year but for several years ahead. We'll tell you what all of this means for you and the nation next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New concerns over the staggering level of the government's deficit; the government's federal deficit could hit $1 trillion this year. The high levels could make investment in this country absolutely unattractive to many investors and delay economic recovery. Lisa Sylvester has our report -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the fiscal year that ended last September, the federal deficit was about $455 billion. Now we are talking about doubling that to $1 trillion for this year alone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: At the current course and speed, $1 trillion deficit will be here before we even start the next budget. Potentially, we've got $1 trillion deficits for years to come, even with the economic recovery that we are working on at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: One trillion dollars, that's seven percent of U.S. GDP and according to federal data that would be the highest level since World War II. Now all of this borrowing could make the United States government look like a little bit of a risky investment bet and private investors may start scaling back. Right now, China is the major foreign holder of U.S. treasuries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROF. PETER MORICI, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: The capacity of the global economy to absorb that much American debt to finance the U.S. government at that level is limited. And at some point the line of credit will run out and we will be held hostage by the Chinese government who ultimately would become our creditor of last resort.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: Yeah and President-elect Obama acknowledged that there will be tough budget choices that will have to be made under his watch -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, those tough budget choices aren't waiting for his watch. They're squarely facing the Congress, this president. At what point are we to expect our elected officials to begin making tough choices?
SYLVESTER: Yeah, Lou, this is something that is remarkable. The level of debt that they are talking about, $1 trillion, no one really in Washington wants to talk about well what is going to have to be cut, because these deficits of $1 trillion, that's not sustainable so something's going to have to either be cut or taxes are going to have to be raised, but not many people on Capitol Hill want to talk about those things, Lou.
DOBBS: Well next we're going to be talking, Lisa, with David Walker, the former U.S. controller, about the tough choices that faces and what this country can expect, including the possibility that the world's largest debtor nation becomes a bankrupt nation. Lisa, thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
The talk of hundreds of billions of dollars in economic stimulus money already drawing the attention of the nation's more than 14,000 full-time lobbyists and they're anything approaching active when there's that much money involved. They're pushing to make certain their clients get as much of that money as possible. Ines Ferre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lobbyists across the spectrum of industries are busy looking for ways to get in on the projected $800 billion stimulus package. They're advocating for a range of issues from a national campaign promoting tourism to lowering tariffs on imported apparel and shoes. The Natural Resources Defense Council and other environmental groups have a list of projects costing approximately $400 billion. They hope the stimulus bill will include some, like weatherizing low-income homes and more efficient power generation.
KAREN WAYLAND, NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: This is not just about dumping money into a -- a hole and -- and wasting it. This is about helping real people get new jobs and long -- long lasting jobs that actually have -- that are better paying than a service job.
FERRE: Congressional critics say lobbyists of whatever type don't care how useful projects may be.
DAVID ARKUSH, PUBLIC CITIZEN: They're a huge number of projects that absolutely should not be funded and are just giveaways. Whether they've got a good argument or a bad argument, good policy or bad policy, their job is not to look out for the American taxpayer. Their job is to look out for their corporate clients.
FERRE: After a tide of criticism that the bank bailout had little accountability, experts stress how crucial this bill will be.
ROBERT MANNING, ROCHESTER INST. OF TECHNOLOGY: President-elect Obama and his transition team has to get it right by balancing the urgency. And this is a very, very urgent and precarious financial situation that we face with provisions of accountability and responsibility.
FERRE: Sorting out good policy from waste.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FERRE: And already the president-elect has made it clear he wants more transparency and accountability in the bill and said he won't allow earmarks whereby individual members insert pet projects without review. And Lou, there's even talk, also, about putting this online, putting all the details online.
DOBBS: I think that's buffo. I also think it is absolute -- this is a disappointing statement by the president-elect, who's made very few of them. But this is nonsense. This is the role of Congress to provide that oversight. It's institutional. It's constitutional, and the responsibility of Congress to provide that oversight.
The rest of it is bells and whistles. And, frankly, not reflective of a sincere commitment to what we need most, and that is leadership that is absolutely guided by our founding ideals and our constitutional government. That would be nice to have articulated by the president-elect, because anything beyond that starts to sound a lot like utter blather, another word that starts with a B. Thanks very much, Ines, appreciate it.
That brings us to our poll tonight. The question is do you believe the bailout and economic stimulus packages will return this country to prosperity or will it bankrupt the nation? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here, as always, later in the broadcast.
Up next, the Obama economic stimulus package, will it be enough to fix our economic mess? Would any amount be enough? We'll have more on the issue. I'll be talking with a former U.S. controller, David Walker here next.
And some states still planning to grant driving privileges to illegal aliens, the state of New Jersey taking the lead in what the Homeland Security Department says is antithetical to the national interests. Would that bother Jon Corzine, the governor of New Jersey? Some doubts about that. We'll have the story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A plan to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens in New York State provoked a national political backlash. Now the state of New Jersey wants to be the next state to try to grant driving privilege licenses to illegal aliens. These licenses would also give illegal immigrants privileges denied American citizens. Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Only one state in the country currently issues driving privilege cards, Utah. Tennessee once did, but after a federal investigation the state revoked the policy and now requires proof of lawful presence as a condition of anyone being given a driver's license. Opponents to the practices in Utah, such as this retired state representative, point to national security concerns. GLENN DONNELSON, FORMER STATE LEGISLATOR: Because we don't know who these people are. We're issuing them without any documentation.
TUCKER: Outside of Utah, illegal aliens who want driver's licenses can currently only get them in three states, Maryland, New Mexico and Washington do not require any proof of lawful residence. If Jersey goes ahead and issues a driving privilege card, opponents say they are basically conferring legal status to people unlawfully present and therefore inviting trouble.
JANICE KEPHART, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: The states that permit the vulnerability of illegal presence are the states that become the magnet for all types of illicit activity, anything where you have a loophole as big as permitting illegal presence in the state invites fraud of all kinds into the state.
KRIS KOBACH, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: On one hand, you'd be giving illegal aliens a driver privilege card, which facilitates their remaining illegally in the country and is itself a violation of federal law. And on the other hand, you'd be violating federal law by giving them access to in-state tuition which Congress expressly prohibited in 1996.
TUCKER: The driver privilege card would not be a valid ID for federal purposes, meaning it could not be used to enter a federal building or board an airplane. Proponents argue illegal immigrants are a fact of life and it is better to accommodate them, license them and sell them insurance than to ignore them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: But there's one other fact the governor of New Jersey and its legislature may want to consider. In Maryland last month, the heads of the Department of Motor Vehicles and the secretary of Transportation asked the legislature to please revoke the state's policy and require proof of lawful residence, making it mandatory. And Lou, as we know, during the New York fiasco, the Department of Homeland Security came out and said two-tier licensing is a bad policy.
DOBBS: Bad policy against the national interests, against national security interests, other than that Governor Corzine is just being another too cute by half political activist on the left, pretty simple, don't you think?
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Bill Tucker, appreciate it.
Well the Vatican is once again criticizing U.S. immigration policy. A Vatican news agency has released a 12-page document that denounces efforts to secure our borders and to stem the flow of illegal immigrants. The agency praises the U.S. Bishops Conference for opposing what it calls, quote, "the ineffectiveness and violence of our border security measures." The Vatican says efforts to stop illegal immigration have raised the numbers of people killed while trying to cross our border and encourage human trafficking. There is absolutely, by the way, no mention whatsoever of the responsibility of the government of Mexico for its own people and, and their safety -- extraordinary. Well, we're going to be talking with the church about all of this and a lot more, but especially that.
Time now for a few of your thoughts; we've received lots of e- mails about last night's poll question, which was do you think the Senate needs another comedian. Jerry in Pennsylvania wrote to say, "Lou, since having been introduced to your program, I've hardly missed any. I must now, however, take issue with last night's question. I submit it as an offense to comedians everywhere."
And William in Alabama, "Maybe a real comedian is what we need in Washington. What we've had for the last eight years has not been very funny."
And Jerry in Oregon, "What is wrong with having one more clown in the senate? It's a circus now." All thoughts to ponder and I couldn't agree more.
We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "Independents Day, Awakening the American Spirit."
Coming up next, homeland security, the folk cushion of new reality TV show. In fact, it's the title of the show. We'll tell you why, what it's about, and what it says about the state of network television itself.
President-elect Obama says the United States could face trillion dollar deficits for years. He's not even in office yet. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Welcome back.
Right now, it's all about number, figures, abstractions that boggle the mind, even if we can't quite grasp the abstractions. President-elect Obama today said he will ban earmarks from his economic stimulus package, a package that he says will reach $1 trillion, almost. The president-elect saying the United States will face trillion-dollar deficits that could last for years.
Joining me now to try to comprehend some of this and to put it in some context and also to give us his view on state of this economy, David Walker, former controller general of the United States and CEO of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation.
Great to have you with us.
DAVID WALKER, CEO, PETER G. PETERSON FOUNDATION: Good to be back with you, Lou. DOBBS: These numbers, I mean, we hear Barack Obama talk about it's going to have to have fiscal responsibility, and at the same time say -- in what I'm going to call now a happy convergence again -- say that he needs a trillion-dollar deficit for years to come. What is going on here?
WALKER: There's no question we're in a recession. We face unprecedented challenges. Our deficit and debt levels are going to go up in the short term. The real question is, what is the president going to do and the congress to deal with our structural finance problem?
DOBBS: What is -- you know, folks are saying out there, what in the world is a structural finance problem? My problem is, I got too doggone many credit cards I owe too many money on, I've got a mortgage that I am having more trouble paying than ever before. I've either lost a job or facing that. And I've got a bunch of idiots talking from Washington, D.C. about $1 trillion when what I need is maybe $20,000 to make a life here for me and my family.
WALKER: Well, look, you know, both Washington and American families need to not just focus on today, they need to think about what are we going to do to create a better tomorrow. Let me give you a couple facts. As of September 30, 2008, the total liabilities in unfunded promises for the U.S. government for social security and Medicare alone exceed the total net worth of all Americans. That was before the bailouts, that was before the recession kicked in.
DOBBS: What's --
WALKER: Now the president says --
DOBBS: What's the number, give it --
WALKER: $56.4 trillion --
DOBBS: I want everybody to think about -- join me in this, if you will. $56.4 trillion. Now that --
WALKER: $483,000 per household --
DOBBS: There's no way to put that number in context. My god, it's a mind-boggling be an abstraction --
WALKER: Let's put it in context. The typical American house hold, the median household income is less than $50,000 a year, all right so they have another $483,000 mortgage, that's before the bailouts, that's before the trillion-dollar deficits. Here's my point. We need to do something to turn the economy around, but we also have to put a process in place that will enable elected officials to make tough choices on budget controls, social security reform, health care reform, tax reform, the real problems that we face --
DOBBS: Have you got a pill these people can take? These fools have been running from tough decisions and responsibility policies for decades. WALKER: Well in my view, Lou what they need to do is part of the stimulus package, they need to include a specific process that will reach out to the American people, that will end up engaging the American people, that will come up with specific recommendations that will require hearings and an up or down vote in congress where we can start dealing with the disease, not just the symptoms.
DOBBS: As you said that, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid started running the idea that there'd be a straight up and down vote, accountability on the part of either party -- I don't mean to simply focus on Reid and Pelosi.
WALKER: It's not a partisan issue, right.
DOBBS: These republicans have acted like complete behalf fans for a decade. These Democrats have done the same. With real gusto over the last two years. What process could possibly bring responsibility, sense and judgment to our public policymakers?
WALKER: Look, the American people understand --
DOBBS: I'm not talking about the American people. I know the American people are smarter than all of us -- sitting here in New York and Washington, D.C.
WALKER: The answer is the regular order is broken. We don't have leadership in Washington. We can't rely the regular process to work. We have to have a mechanism that will come back --
DOBBS: What is that mechanism?
WALKER: That mechanism is a commission comprised of people who are knowledgeable, will go outside the beltway and engage people. Everything is on the table. They'll make recommendations for health care reform, social security reform, guarantee hearing, guarantee up or down vote with limited members in congress. That's what we need. Because we are kicking the can down the road too long.
DOBBS: And it feels like something else is getting kicked and it's right behind us. David Walker, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
WALKER: Good to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: Up next, a lawsuit challenging Al Franken's apparent senate victory in Minnesota. Four of my favorite radio talk show hosts will be. We'll also talk about the senate battle in Minnesota and Illinois -- are there other places? You bet.
The border patrol taking center stage on television, about time. We'll have that story next.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Well, the Department of Homeland Security facing the task of securing our borders and ports and it has been a difficult and thankless task, just the effort, let alone the effort to succeed. Beginning tonight, television viewers will have a rare glimpse of some of the challenges that face the men and women who work for the Department of Homeland Security. It's a brand-new prime-time reality show. Casey Wian with our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This could be the beginning of one of hundreds of reports on LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. Instead, it's "Homeland Security USA," a new reality series on ABC debuting Tuesday night in primetime. The show chronicles the adventures of border patrol agents, customs officers, port inspectors, transportation security screeners, even postal investigators. Here, southern California customs agents find morphine, codeine and other pills in a shipment of children's toys from Cambodia.
ARNOLD SHAPIRO, EXEC. PRODUCER, "HOMELAND SECURITY USA": If there's anything that astounded me doing this series, it was how much illegal drug trafficking is going on and how successful the Department of Homeland Security is in stopping so much of it. We hear about drugs that get into the country. You would be amazed what they stop what doesn't get into the country.
WIAN: Shapiro is a veteran of reality show, including "Big Brother," and "Rescue 911." Television analysts say "Homeland Security USA" is following the network trend away from expensive prime-time dramas. It involves issues border security and illegal immigration that could both divide and attract viewers.
PROF. MARY MURPHY, USC ANNENBERG SCHOOL: It's a hot-button issue. And that's why the network is doing it. They don't risk controversy, they crave controversy. They don't care if they alienate people because if they alienate people, they'll be protesting and there will be stories about it.
WIAN: The Department of Homeland Security says it did not fund or censor the program, other than protect the identities of undercover agents and sensitive national security matters.
Ratings could be a challenge. The show is up against "NCIS" on CBS this week and beginning next week "American Idol" on Fox.
There shouldn't be a shortage of program material. This past year alone, the Department of Homeland Security apprehended more than 1 million people and seized nearly 3 million pounds of narcotics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Now, the Department of Homeland Security isn't alone in its desire to go Hollywood. "Homeland Security USA" producers say they were shocked by the number of suspected drug smugglers caught on camera willing to sign release forms to allow their faces to be shown on camera. DOBBS: I'm just thinking of the reporting we've done here for years on this broadcast and we never got a release from drug smugglers or illegal aliens. I mean, that's -- I mean, really, border security and illegal immigration and drug smuggling all going Hollywood, huh?
WIAN: Yeah, frankly, Lou, I got to say, I never thought to ask a drug smuggler to sign a release form. Shortcoming on my part, I guess.
DOBBS: We'll take it up at your next contract discussion. It's really an interesting idea. And, you know, I think back two years ago the FBI had a television show that J. Edgar Hoover apparently personally stamped his signature on each half hour that was produced. This could be good. Awaken people to race whale going on. It's fascinating. All righty.
WIAN: The Department of Homeland Security, Lou, says they're not putting their stamp on this. They've just given the producers access to it and it's just unvarnished reality.
DOBBS: It's a reality in which thousands of men and women serve this country in uniform on our borders and our ports, protecting the nation, and doing so with insufficient resources and little thanks. Thank you very much, appreciate it Casey Wian.
Joining me now from Los Angeles for more on "Homeland Security USA" is CNN entertainment correspondent, co-host of HLN's "Show Biz Tonight," Brooke Anderson.
Brooke, great to have you with us. What do you think ABC, major television network is producing a reality show about the Department of Homeland Security?
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, the short answer, Lou, is ratings and ad dollars. Any network producing content of any kind, controversial or not, wants those eyeballs. I do want to say that reality programming is much cheaper to produce than scripted programming. ABC tells us they will not discuss production costs, but Mary Murphy, the TV expert you saw in Casey's piece, tells us an episode of reality show costs about $500,000 or less to make, compared to $2 million to $3 million for an hour-long, scripted drama.
DOBBS: Wow.
ANDERSON: So networks are trying to cut costs, it's much more economical for them so that's one of the main reasons.
DOBBS: Understandable. One the producers of the show say about the controversy?
ANDERSON: Well, critics of the show are saying, hey, this is government propaganda, but the executive producer of "Homeland Security USA" Arnold Shapiro tells the associated press that it's not government propaganda, it's just factually documented something that happen, and it's not intended to have any sort of political point of view. And, Lou, you know the old adage, there's no such thing as bad publicity, and I think that really holds true, especially in a case like this, in terms of new television shows, because the more people talk about it the more they may watch it really translates into exposure and success for a network.
DOBBS: If done correctly, and that is, they don't put out the normal padlum and sop that is government issue, it could be a compelling broadcast, and putting out further to the American people the images that convey the truth of what is happening at our borders and in our ports. Last year at this time, the TV season was in turmoil because of the writers strike, as we all remember. What -- there's talk about actors now preparing to walk off their jobs again in the middle of this recession? What's going on?
ANDERSON: Yeah, can you believe it? There could be an actors strike on the horizon. It's at a standstill right now because of strife, disagreement, in the executive ranks of the screen actors' guild awards. You may remember one of your favorite TV shows, "24," it has taken more than a year to get back on the air with that seventh season due to last year's writers strike. So potential strike of this nature could have a tremendous impact not only on what we see but I want to briefly manage the writers strike cost the economy $2.5 billion so an actors strike could be crippling to the economy, specifically southern California's economy.
DOBBS: And "Showbiz Tonight," what are you focusing on tonight on HLN?
ANDERSON: We're going to focus a lot more, have the latest breaking developments on the John Travolta tragedy, his death of his 16-year-old son, Jett.
DOBBS: Brooke Anderson, thank you.
Up next, the senate choice turned away. We'll be talking with four of my favorite radio talk show hosts next. We'll be right back.
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DOBBS: Joining me now for the best radio talk show hosts in the country. First in Chicago and always working, Steve Cochran. Steve Cochran. And in Albany New York. CNN contributor, Errol Lewis, WWRL, also columnist New York Daily News. In Philadelphia Dom Giordano, WPHT Radio, and great to have you, Dom. Here in New York John Gambling, of WOR, I can say now colleague, John Gambling.
JOHN GAMBLING, WOR: You started there Monday.
DOBBS: All the way up to two days of service. Thank you very much.
GAMBLING: Wonderful to have you.
DOBBS: It is a hoot. Flattered and having so much fun. It's just great. Let me start if I may, Dom, it with you. What is going on? We have got suddenly the president-elect talking about trillions of dollars in deficits. We have got -- economic stimulus packages just under a trillion. What is the deal?
DOM GIORDANO, WPHT IN PHILADELPHIA: Well it is a bonanza for the media but bad for the country, Lou. That's what seems to be going on. Listeners are reflecting that in that they're saying what the heck is going on too, I'm hurting out here and I hear the guys talking about trillion dollar deficits. I hear them talking about all sorts of gobble-goop. Let's go online so we can see where the money is going to go.
DOBBS: Great idea. Roland Burris today turned away today by the senate leader, Steve Cochran, Senator Harry Reid leading up to his reputation, what's the reaction there in Chicago?
JOHN COCHRAN, WGN IN CHICAGO: I think the only two in Illinois that will get into the senate are Oprah or Mike Ditka. Because honestly who is going to say no to either one of them? But the reaction is pretty much this is what we expected. Now Burris is to be back here Thursday in Springfield to talk to the impeachment committee. There are so many guilty parties involved. It's hard to keep them in line. Keep track of them. You know, Lou the truth is we have been flying with one senator for a long time. The truth is when Obama ran he was rarely in the senate. They're not at a 60 vote filibuster majority. We can continue to live without another senator. We need a governor who is not about to go to jail. Call now.
DOBBS: Errol, let me ask you. Steve makes excellent points as always. Showing real courage, real principle. Bucking the democratic leadership. Saying seat Burris. What is your reaction?
ERROL LOUIS, WWRL IN NEW YORK: A surprising welcome adherence to the constitution. There is a snowstorm in Chicago tomorrow. He can call out the National Guard. All of a sudden, you can't just pick and choose. And sort of stop him from exercising his lawful duties. I think the courts are going to find that sooner or later.
GAMBLING: I couldn't agree more with Errol. My listeners are saying exactly the same thing. What is the difference between Al Franken and Roland Burris?
COCHRAN: Al Franken is funnier.
GAMBLING: A whole lot funnier.
DOBBS: That can't be said of a lot of people.
GAMBLING: If Harry Reid ran a restaurant and tried to do what he was doing he would be thrown in jail.
COCHRAN: From a home game perspective, Jesse White who is the secretary of state still has to sign it and certify it. That is the first line of defense in the senate. Until the court says it doesn't matter if the signature is on there, the senate can use that as the way to keep Roland Burris out.
DOBBS: Who the heck gave Jesse White authority to, to halt government? Why don't the people of Illinois say, we've had a belly full of. I mean, honestly, Steve. The people of Illinois have got to be embarrassed by what their state government is doing not just Blagojevich, Jesse White, the whole government, and the whole political machine in cook county is acting like a bunch of tin horn Banana Republic third world --
COCHRAN: Hey, hey, did you say tin horn?
DOBBS: I did. Them's fighting words?
COCHRAN: That's Chicago way. What's different? That is such a cop out. Such a cop out. This is a great state with great people.
GIORDANO: Hey, I'm in Philadelphia. It's still early there, partner.
DOBBS: The complicated way to say it. They're not kosher.
COCHRAN: Here's the deal. The general assembly in Illinois. Believe me there is a lot of nervous guilty parties on both sides of the aisle there hoping they're not discovered. This is no secret, the Blagojevich has been dirty for a long time coming. The fact is the argument remains the same. A great national story to seat another senator. The initial interest and the more important factor is get a governor in Illinois who doesn't worry about criminal defense quite as much as the current one.
DOBBS: The other top issue of the day, Caroline Kennedy.
GAMBLING: A major issue no question about it.
DOBBS: In the latest poll.
GAMBLING: One minute she is here. Next minute she is here.
DOBBS: Does David Paterson. Does he in point of fact appoint her?
LOUIS: More likely than not. She has got what he needs. A lot of political connections whole lot of money. Whole lot of popularity. This is what goes into picking a running mate. This is what you have to keep in mind. Patterson is filling the unexpired term of Spitzer. Who left on a scandal? He wants a running mate that will pull his weight and then some.
DOBBS: Dom, you get the last word here, partner.
GIORDANO: He does appoint her, Lou without a doubt. I hope it continues on though. I have not had as much sport around a particular issue as this, in quite a while.
DOBBS: Well we are going to have more sport later. We appreciate you all being here. Thank you.
John Gambling, as I said, great to be a colleague now. And it's a hoot working for WOR. GAMBLING: And I couldn't be more thrilled on behalf of the radio station and the listeners to have Lou Dobbs part of our team, extraordinary. So, I hope we have a great new year and a great lot of years ahead of us.
DOBBS: Thank you, same back at you, partner. I love you guys, too, Dom, Errol, Steve.
GAMBLING: Yeah, we're paying him now.
DOBBS: Well in just a few minutes. Campbell Brown, no bias, no bull. How do you deliver every night? No bias, no bull at all?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: It's not that hard.
DOBBS: I'll try it some day.
BROWN: Yeah, you should. Tonight we are going to take yet another no bias, no bull look at why today's opening day of the new congress turned into the circus that it did. Reporters swarming, Roland Burris as he tried to claim the U.S. senate seat from Illinois. Certainly not the kind of stage craft that democrats had been hoping for.
We have also got -- breaking news to tell you about, fighting in Gaza that we have been tracking it. Some new news on this front that could ease the suffering of civilians caught in the cross fire. We'll have latest for you on that. We have also got pictures of the New Year's Day subway shooting that has sparked some claims of excessive force by police. We'll show you what happened that night. Lou?
DOBBS: All right, thank you, Campbell.
Up next the results of our poll. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
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DOBBS: Tonight's poll results overwhelming, 82 percent of you responding saying you think the bailout and stimulus packages will bankrupt the nation. We thank you for being with us tonight. "Campbell Brown: No Bias, No Bull" starts right now. Good night from New York.
