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Lou Dobbs Tonight
CEOs under Fire; Salmonella Outrage
Aired February 11, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf. Tonight, Democrats and Democrats reach agreement with one another on the economic stimulus legislation that will require the U.S. government to go even deeper into debt. One Republican accuses those Democrats of making shady deals behind closed doors, transparency and openness in Washington, D.C. today taking a holiday. We'll have complete coverage.
And tonight, lawmakers who are seething with anger at Wall Street and the government's massive bailout, they hammer the CEOs of eight big banks on Capitol Hill. We'll have that story.
Also tonight, the nationwide salmonella outbreak has claimed another life. And the head of the peanut company at the center of this outbreak refuses to testify in front of Congress, that special report, all the day's news, and much more, straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, February 11th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. In the last hour, Senate Democrats declaring they've reached a deal on the huge so-called stimulus package. Lawmakers saying the deal will cost taxpayers $790 billion and it could be on the president's desk by the weekend. But this agreement nearly collapsed we're told after a last minute disagreement between House Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Reid. Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid resolved their differences in a closed door meeting, another illustration of the complete and utter lack of transparency and openness now on Capitol Hill -- Dana Bash with our report. Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, they have resolved their differences. And in fact House Speaker Nancy Pelosi just came out of a meeting that she was having with her fellow Democrats in the House and made it clear that she believes that this is the best deal that can be struck for what she said is really the important goal here, which is getting the American people, the American workers, back to work who are out of jobs.
Now she made it very clear that in order to get this to the president's desk, they do hope by the end of the week, she and her fellow House Democrats had to make some sacrifices. You mentioned or alluded to one issue and that is the issue of education. There were some differences over how to spend money in education, how much money to spend on education. But as you hear, here, from the House speaker, she thinks at this point they've done their best.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We have come to an agreement with the Senate as to how we'll go forward and I think people are pretty happy about that. It's always the consideration of what we had in the bill that we wish was still -- we wish that that -- were still there, but the fact is that there's plenty there to create nearly four million jobs that the president has set as our goal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, this is about 35 percent tax cuts and the rest, for the most part, spending. Let me give you just a couple examples of what we're talking about here. First on the tax cut side, President Obama's signature tax cut that is supposed to be targeted to the middle class, it went from $1,000 for families down to $800 and then for individuals, from 500 to 400. So you see, it's still there, but it was pared back a little bit to keep the spending -- overall spending level down.
And on the spending side, infrastructure, Susan Collins, one of the three Republicans who negotiated this, she told us that she has gotten about a $150 billion, $150 billion, for infrastructure. And, again, that is, really, the one thing that everybody is talking about, in terms of what the goal for this is and that is to create jobs. Many people say the key here is money for infrastructure. Because that will, you know, help people -- help states create jobs.
DOBBS: Well, absolutely. And we're still at sea (ph) frankly though as to how many jobs will be created, how many will be saved. That is always the language of this president and economists, with whom I've spoken, Dana, are very skeptical. Speaking today with economics professor at Harvard, Robert Baro (ph) saying he thinks this is the worst piece of legislation since the great depression because it's untargeted and untested and many of its respects. I mean that's remarkable.
BASH: Well there are a lot of Republicans, in fact, most Republicans here on Capitol Hill agree with that. And that's why most of them are going to be voting no when it comes to the floor of the House and the Senate. But you did allude to this Lou, both the House speaker and the Senate majority leader were very quick to insist that this is going to create three to four million jobs. And I can guarantee you once we get the details of this and once economists really are able to look at the nitty-gritty of this, it's going to be a big question whether or not that's true.
DOBBS: Yours may be the only guarantee associated with this legislation, Dana. Thank you very much, Dana. If you will, stay with us, while we bring in our colleagues for more on this so-called stimulus legislation and this agreement today, senior White House correspondent Ed Henry now with us and senior political correspondent Candy Crowley. Thank you, both, for being here -- the reaction at the White House, Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president tonight put out a written statement saying that he thinks this is a hard-fought compromise that he's pleased with. He also mentioned, as Dana did, that he thinks this will create three to four million jobs and that he thinks at the end of the day he's happy that he brought in some Republicans. But as you know, it's just three so far in the Senate, none in the House. And this is not exactly how the White House wanted to start things off. He certainly wanted this to be more bipartisan. But look, they'll take a victory.
DOBBS: Well it is a victory and I'm -- it was almost laughable today to hear some suggestions of associated drama here, as Democrats were negotiating with Democrats in the Conference Committee. Candy there is, as you know, considerable widespread skepticism on this plan not only there in Washington amongst Republicans, but around the country -- your thoughts?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, I mean, I think the proof is going to be in the pudding. I hate to use a cliche there, but the president today, when he was at the construction site in Virginia, said we have to be very careful about how we use this money. We have to be transparent. We have to make sure that it's going where it goes.
Because if this bill, with this kind of price tag, does not move the meter at all, when it comes to the economy, he's in deep trouble. This is a lot of money. He's going to get much of what he wanted. So the ball is in his court, just wanted to give you one more cliche...
DOBBS: If you go for three, Candy -- if you go for three, we're going to have a discussion.
CROWLEY: OK, let me see. But I mean you know basically, he's got to -- you know he got what he wanted and now he owns this.
DOBBS: And let me help you out, time will tell...
CROWLEY: There you go.
DOBBS: Ed Henry, let's turn to Change.gov, the administration's Web site because part of what Candy was talking about there in terms of transparency, on that Web site, the Obama administration new -- we can still call it new, I believe after three weeks and two days in office, saying that they promised to quote, "end the practice of writing legislation behind closed doors." For crying out loud this was all done today behind closed doors. What say the president of the United States?
HENRY: Well, the president wasn't asked, but Robert Gibbs, his spokesman, was asked that very question today at the White House briefing and I think this is the difference between campaigning and governing. He said basically, look, the president still wants to get there, to open up these sort of conference committees, but you got to the Democratic leaders on the Hill. There's a little bit of a punt back to the Hill if you will.
And I think also you know the White House today, even as they got this victory, had some difficulty dealing with the fallout still from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner yesterday. Part two. We can't remember that this recovery plan is just step one. Step two is going to be the next round of the bank bailouts, the housing crisis and there were so few details in what Tim Geithner laid out yesterday that Robert Gibbs spent a good part of his briefing trying to deal with the fact that the markets didn't like the plan very much and a lot of Democrats frankly on the Hill are looking for more details, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, looking for more details and all the more so because in that nationwide prime-time press conference, the president referred four times to Timothy Geithner and his much anticipated speech to Wall Street and to all of you, referred to by the president as -- Timothy Geithner's moment in the sun. He talked about Geithner was going to lay out details and this crisp plan and Wall Street reacted with a 400-point nose-dive, a thumb's down, if you will, by any standard.
HENRY: Well certainly the president himself in that news conference raised expectations. You're right, he used the word details. He said I want to step on the Treasury secretary. He's going to lay all this out for you and he was talking about the housing crisis, in addition to the banking bailout and that's something I pressed Robert Gibbs about. Housing, so many economists say, is the root of this entire problem. And here we are more than three weeks in as you say and we have yet to see a specific housing bailout or a housing foreclosure crisis plan, Lou.
DOBBS: And, Candy, real quickly, I mean, we're into this, as I just said, three weeks and two days, Barack Obama's been president of the United States. I mean, one thing -- whether -- no matter how critical one may be of this administration or how supportive, one thing that's clear, the administration has set an activity level, an energy level, that we haven't seen for a very long time in Washington, D.C. and certainly at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
CROWLEY: Absolutely and that was very deliberate. You know I think the day after he was elected we began to hear the term "hit the ground running." They wanted to wow the American people when they walked into office, whether it was about appointed envoys for the Middle East or about rolling out these packages for the economy. It's precisely what they wanted to sort of signal, new guy in town.
DOBBS: And I think we all want to be wowed when it comes to the economy. Appreciate it. Thank you very much, Candy. Ed, thank you very much. Dana Bash, thank you.
Well, the Senate tonight confirming a former lobbyist, William Lynn (ph), as deputy secretary of defense. The Senate voted to confirm Lynn, a vote of 93 to four, although Lynn is or was at least a registered lobbyist for Raytheon. The Obama administration waived its own rules on the appointment of lobbyists to government positions, saying Lynn is, quote, "uniquely qualified for the job", much the same language they used with Secretary Geithner, as he was embroiled in controversy over his taxes.
President Obama today again demanded that Congress finally pass the stimulus legislation, so-called. President Obama again using the politics of fear, he was visiting a construction site in Springfield, Virginia, when he said the heavy equipment maker Caterpillar will rehire some of those 20,000 workers that it's laid off in the last few weeks, but only if Congress passes that stimulus legislation. President Obama didn't say how many people Caterpillar would take back or what those rehired workers would be doing.
President Obama also failed to mention two key things about Caterpillar -- the company's chairman and CEO is one Jim Owens (ph). He's also one of President Obama's economic advisers. Owens (ph) is a strong opponent also of any "Buy America" provisions designed to help American workers keep their jobs. We should also point out that President Obama today made absolutely no reference or mention of Intel's Chief Executive Officer Paul Otellini who announced that Intel is investing $7 billion in manufacturing facilities right here in the United States over the next two years without any reference to the stimulus package whatsoever.
Well, some good news tonight for a woman who told President Obama she's homeless and unemployed and she asked the president for his help. Yesterday in that town hall meeting in Ft. Myers, Florida, Henrietta Hughes (ph) told the president she and her son have been living in a pickup truck.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need unemployment and homelessness -- a very small vehicle my family and I we live in. We need it -- urgent and the Housing Authority has a two-year waiting list. And we need something more than the vehicle and parks to go to. We need our own kitchen and our own bathroom. Please help.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, listen, what's your name?
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: What's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Henrietta Hughes (ph).
OBAMA: OK, Miss Hughes (ph), well we're going to do everything we can to help you.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, I wish that all of the stories across this country like those of Henrietta Hughes (ph) had as happy an ending as hers today. Today the wife of Florida State Representative Nicholas Thompson (ph) offered Hughes and her son a house rent-free for as long as they need it.
Coming up here next, the nationwide salmonella outbreak has claimed another life. The head of the peanut company at the center of this outbreak is now refusing to answer any questions. We'll have complete coverage. And the CEOs of eight banks today grilled by lawmakers who say they're disgusted by the bankers' outrageous bonuses and the way in which they run their businesses while the taxpayer is bailing them out. We'll tell you all about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A lot of investors have lost billions of dollars, but tonight we can't tell you what's going on in the case against disgraced Wall Street money manager Bernard Madoff. Inexplicably this case in which Madoff is accused of having carried out the world's largest Ponzi scheme in history, well the case has been delayed for another 30 days without explanation. Madoff is accused of ripping off investors to the tune of $50 billion and federal prosecutors facing a February 11th deadline to either indict or to hold a hearing for Madoff, missing another deadline.
They've already missed a deadline once. And today Massachusetts authorities say Madoff's wife, Ruth, withdrew $15.5 million from a brokerage account just days before her husband's arrest back in December. CEOs from eight of the nation's leading banks today went to Washington and they found out just how angry some lawmakers are, the bankers facing tough questioning on Capitol Hill. The lawmakers demanding to know what the banks are doing with the tens of billions of dollars of your tax money. Brianna Keilar has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bailed out...
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: (INAUDIBLE) sold out...
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside, angry protesters, inside angry lawmakers.
REP. MICHAEL CAPUANO (D), MASSACHUSETTS: None of us -- America doesn't trust you anymore.
KEILAR: Fed up with the CEOs of Wall Street's biggest banks, banks that received billions in taxpayer dollars like Vikram Pandit, Citigroup, $45 billion, John Stump (ph), Wells Fargo, Lloyd Blankenfine (ph), Goldman Sachs, $25 billion each and still credit is largely frozen amid reports some of these banks spent big bucks on executive pay and corporate perks like Citigroup's purchase of a $50 million foreign-made corporate jet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did not adjust quickly enough to this new world and I take personal responsibility for that mistake. In the end, I canceled delivery. I get the new reality and I will make sure Citi gets it as well.
KEILAR: A pledge to lawmakers like Committee Chairman Barney Frank, still working to convince Americans of this new reality.
REP. BARNEY FRANK (D-MA), FINANCIAL SERVICES CHAIRMAN: In an effort to get the credit system functioning, things will be done that will be to the benefit of the institutions over which you preside because there is no alternative. But you need to understand, as I think many of you do how angry that make people.
KEILAR: The eight CEOs tried to quell the outrage, calling some of it justified.
JOHN MACK, CEO, MORGAN STANLEY: I think the entire industry shares some of that responsibility and for that we are sorry for it.
KEILAR: It wasn't enough.
REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D), NEW YORK: We listen to you and we hear words, words, words and no answer. It seems to me -- and to some of us that this money hasn't reached the street, that you're not loaning it out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: These CEOs insisted their companies are lending money and lending much more money than they would without the bailout funds. Lou?
DOBBS: And Congressman Gary Ackerman asking today, Brianna, each of those CEOs, how many of them since the United States government, through the good offices of the U.S. Congress, had put up $165 billion into their various institutions, how much money those CEOs had put forward. Jamie Dimon was the only one to answer, if you will, any figures. He had put up $12 million investing in his company since the bailout. It was embarrassing that five out of eight of them hadn't put any more of their money into those companies after the taxpayers had.
KEILAR: Lou, that's right. There were a few who said they'd put millions in since all of this went down. But you're right there were a handful there today who said none. And they went through the line and had them talk about exactly what the numbers were and there were a lot of zeros there, you're right.
DOBBS: Brianna, thank you very much -- Brianna Keilar.
Well John Stumpf, who's the CEO of Wells Fargo, today defended the way he does business and the way his bank is doing business. Stumpf said Wells Fargo will use taxpayer bailout funds to help its customers stay in their homes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN STUMPF, CEO, WELLS FARGO: We said we would use the funds to find solutions for our mortgage customers who are late on their payments or facing foreclosure so they can stay in their homes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, how about that, because Wells Fargo isn't living up to Mr. Stumpf's promise. As we first reported to you here last month, Wells Fargo in fact is refusing to contact one of its clients, Andrea Geist (ph) of Toledo, Ohio, who as best as I can tell has been totally defrauded by those she trusted. Geist (ph) put 30 percent down on a $147,000 home and she still ended up with a sub-prime mortgage.
When those payments ballooned, she couldn't keep up and went into foreclosure and Wells Fargo took over the company that had made that loan. Now Geist (ph) is taking advantage of her squatter's rights. She's remaining in her home on the advice of her congresswoman, Marcy Kaptur. Today, Geist (ph) told us here at LOU DOBBS TONIGHT she still has not heard from anyone at Wells Fargo and she doesn't know what she's going to do next. Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf, as you heard, says his company is helping its customers keep their homes. Mr. Stumpf, come on, call Ms. Geist (ph). It's the least you could do.
Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman (ph) tonight is demanding an apology from President Obama. The president this week condemned Wall Street banks for excessive spending and lavish junkets, including trips to Las Vegas. At a town hall meeting in Indiana Monday the president said, quote, "you can't get corporate jets, you can't go take a trip to Las Vegas or go down to the Super Bowl on the taxpayers' dime."
Mayor Goodman (ph) says the president's comments, quote, "reinforce outdated stereotypes", end quote, that are particularly harmful to his city of Las Vegas and he wants the president to apologize. And Mayor Goodman (ph) will be our guest here tomorrow. Please be with us for that.
And some startling comments by Senator Chuck Schumer of New York on pork. Senator Schumer said on the Senate floor, "Americans don't care about what he calls tiny porky amendments." Listen to the good senator's comments, if you will.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Let me say this to all of the chattering class that so much focuses on those little tiny, yes, porky amendments. The American people really don't care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, there you are and we'd like to know what you think of the senator's comments. Our poll question is very simple. Is Senator Chuck Schumer of New York right when he says Americans do not care about what he calls "tiny, porky amendments"? Yes or no. We'd love to hear from you and we're sure Chuck Schumer would as well. Send your vote to loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later in the broadcast. We'll be talking about that story and more when we're joined by three of the countries best political analysts.
Also ahead here, the head of the peanut company at the center of the nation's deadly salmonella outbreak takes the Fifth refusing to answer questions in front of Congress. We'll have that report.
And utter devastation across central Oklahoma from deadly tornadoes. We'll have the very latest here next. We'll be right back. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Eight people are dead tonight after violent storms moved across the state of Oklahoma last night, tornadoes and storms leveling housing developments, the fatalities and most of the injuries occurring in the town of Lone Grove, south of Oklahoma City. More than 6,000 people tonight there are still without power.
A ninth person has died in the nationwide salmonella outbreak that has sickened 600 others. Congress has now decided it's time for answers. It's a story we've reported here since the very beginning. The head of the company blamed for this outbreak today refused to answer questions from a congressional subcommittee. Louise Schiavone has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another death in the latest salmonella outbreak and still no answers from the company at the center of the storm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The food poisoning of people, is that just a cost of doing business for your company?
STEWART PARNELL, PEANUT CORP. OF AMERICA: Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, on the advice of my counsel, I respectfully decline to answer your question based on the protection afforded me under the United States Constitution.
SCHIAVONE: Now facing criminal charges, there was no testimony from company bigwigs, but Peanut Corporation of America documents uncovered by the committee revealed a history of salmonella findings going back at least three years. In response, the company ordered retesting of its products with instructions by Parnell to quote, "turn them loose". And an overriding concern that salmonella outbreak notwithstanding quote, "we desperately at least need to turn the raw peanuts on our floor into money", end quote.
The Food and Drug Administration charges the Georgia company's policy of making sales no matter what the science may well have cost nine deaths, more than 600 recorded illnesses. There are probably many times more cases than that, according to the Centers for Disease Control, but what about the FDA, which had not undertaken a formal inspection of Peanut Corporation of America since 2001?
REP. JOHN DINGELL (D), MICHIGAN: I find the leadership lacking. I find the resources lacking. And you are driving me to the conclusion that perhaps, maybe Food and Drug is not as diligent as it should be because it might have the resources. Now, what is your response to that?
STEPHEN SUNDLOFF, FDA: Well, obviously we need -- we need to be inspecting more frequently.
SCHIAVONE: Congressman Dingell, Stupak and others are crafting a major overall of the FDA, even as one the most fundamental foods in the American diet has now become one of the most feared.
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS: You know there's not a night that goes by it seems that Lou Dobbs doesn't end his newscast by saying, doesn't anyone deserve a government that works?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lou, with the exception of major brands of bottled peanut butter there appear to be questions about roughly 2,000 other items all using Peanut Corporation of America products. And more and more the guidance seems to be from cake mixes to granola bars to ice creams to nuts themselves, go through your pantry and get rid of everything. Lou?
DOBBS: Well, you know is there any sign that the Obama administration is going to take on the issue of -- we understand that Congress is, but the administration has the ability to do much in very short order with executive orders here with the FDA. Are they going to clean that mess up? The leadership there is a dangerous, dangerous threat to the American people.
SCHIAVONE: President Obama himself in interviews has said that the FDA isn't working properly. The FDA needs to be overhauled. And as we all know, he says that one of his daughters eats peanut butter sandwiches three times a week and he is just as worried about this as everybody else. And he says that he's going to do it. And it seems like the Democratic majority in Congress seems to feel empowered that they can actually go after this and maybe do something expeditiously to make the FDA actually work.
DOBBS: Let's hope so. All right, thank you very much, Louise Schiavone, reporting on this throughout and excellent reporting. Louise, thank you very much.
Up next, rising outrage over Senator Schumer's comments about what he called tiny porky amendments that apparently he thinks senators have the right to put together. Three top political analysts join me and another massive example of pork in the so-called stimulus bill, more than $500 million for digital television. We'll have that special report in "Lou's Line-Item Veto" here next. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: With a final vote expected by the end of the week, we are continuing to examine this massive spending legislation to report to you exactly what's in it. We can only hope some of our senators and congressmen have done the same thing. By all appearances, that may be, however, questionable.
Tonight in "Lou's Line-Item Veto" being we're focusing on a $650 million provision to help people make the switch to digital television. As Kitty Pilgrim now reports, there are a lot of questions why this money is even in a bill that's supposed to stimulate the economy and create jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: The clock is ticking ...
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By now, the government plan to switch to digital TV has filled our air waves. The government has gone through their more than billion dollars on the program, educating the public about the switch to digital and giving out 33 million $40 coupons to help people pay for their new converter box for their televisions.
The government even sponsored a NASCAR racing car for $350,000 to get the word out to fans about the digital transition. Unfortunately the car crashed and burned.
Now the Commerce Department and the FCC want $650 million more dollars for digital conversion in the stimulus bill. One consumer group says, wrong place.
TOM SCHATZ, CITIZENS AGAINST GOVERNMENT WASTE: It's not stimulating anything except more confusion among the consumers who will have to transition from analog to digital and a little bit of outrage from taxpayers that they've already paid for this and now they're paying almost double to get it fixed.
PILGRIM: President Obama today signed a bill to push back the conversion deadline from February till June because as many as 6 million households still haven't made the switch. Many are still waiting for their coupons to purchase converters. But the current budget has already been spent.
JOHN DUNBAR, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: This is not government's finest hour in terms of how this is going. I think that for the general public, they're going to look at this and just say the government can't get anything right.
PILGRIM: The administration wants to get the program completed so parts of the analog spectrum can be used by first responders and sold for wireless communications. The FCC has already raised some $19 billion in auctions for the analog air waves.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (on camera): Now, the program is administered by Commerce and the FCC. They couldn't keep track of this coupon program paid for by the first $1 billion. They still don't know why many of the people who asked for the coupons still haven't purchased their converter boxes. That doesn't stop them now from wanting even more money for the program. Lou?
DOBBS: So how many people don't have their coupons?
PILGRIM: Well, two million are waiting for coupons but they're out of money to issue them.
DOBBS: And by my calculation, if there's 6 million people who need them, that would still only be -- only, see how nice and easily those things - these numbers trip off our tongues now? It would only be $240 million, not $650 million, if that's the top on $6 million. They've already put $1.5 billion forward. I mean -- it's good to know the government -- I'm glad they've got a ready reserve account in this trillion dollar stimulus package. Amazing.
PILGRIM: It's completely botched, this entire program.
DOBBS: Well, as Congressman Burris (ph) would take note. Don't we deserve a government that works anywhere, in any way? Thank you, Kitty.
Well, I hope you'll consider e-mails and calling your senators in congress and let them know what you think about all this as they vote on this massive spending legislation. Go to our Web site, loudobbs.com where you can get all the contact information, e-mail and telephone numbers for your congressmen and senators. And please be sure to join us here tomorrow when we focus on the $750 million to build a new National Computer Center in Maryland. Critics say it's a, at minimum, five-year project. So maybe you're wondering how that's going to create jobs and stimulate the economy in the next two years.
That's tomorrow on "Lou's Line-Item Veto". Also, new efforts today to ensure that e-verify is included in the final version of this so-called stimulus bill. If it isn't, the government's most effective program against illegal immigration will be killed in March by the Democratic leadership of this Congress and President Obama. Congressman Lamar Smith urging lawmakers to protect American workers and to include e-verify in the legislation. Congressman Smith says one proven way to create or save jobs is to, quote, "ensure that the e-verify system remains available to employers who want to comply with federal law which requires employers to hire a legal workforce."
Californians tonight are outraged over a federal court ruling that could force that state to free a third of its prison population up to 57,000 prisoners. The state says it will fight that ruling all the way to the Supreme Court. Ted Rowlands has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my bed right here.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ivan Watson is one of about 300 inmates living in the gym at San Quentin Prison instead of a cell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No human being really's supposed to be living in a gymnasium. They have a lot of diseases going around, staph infections. And you get sick real easy. It's not very sanitary.
ROWLANDS: Right now, there are about 155,000 inmates in California's 33 prisons, nearly double the amount they were meant to hold. A tentative three-judge federal court ruling says the system is so bloated the level of health care is unacceptable. The panel says the only way to fix the problem is to release between 37,000 and 57,000 prisoners. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a significant moment of hope for California prisoners who have been deprived of their basic constitutional rights for adequate medical, mental health care for too many years.
ROWLANDS (on camera): Following the ruling, the State of California came out swinging, saying they'll take the case all the way to the Supreme Court before they release anybody.
MATT CATE, CALIFORNIA CORRECTIONS AND REHAB CENTER: The case isn't about overcrowding. The case is about providing constitutional care to our inmates at any level of overcrowding. If we can provide constitutional care, then the State of California has the right to keep these inmates in prison and it's our position we're providing that level of care now.
ROWLANDS: San Quentin inmate Mark Mallard disagrees.
MARK MALLARD, INDMATE: I've never had staph in my life and all a sudden I come here and I get staph right here.
ROWLANDS: At this point, there's no timetable. If the ruling stands it will still likely be years before the prisoners would be released.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS (on camera): And, Lou, this tentative ruling says one way to release this amount of prisoners would be to completely overhaul the parole system. Instead of bringing parole violators back into prison, to figure out some other way to do it. They say the savings could be hundreds of millions of dollars. So you can create a way to handle that. The state is very firm, saying this is a potential public safety issue. We're not letting anybody out unless the U.S. Supreme Court tell us to.
DOBBS: Well, which court is it, Ted? Because first of all, on its face this is outrageous legislation from the bench, whether it be the appellate court or whatever.
ROWLANDS: Well, this has been simmering to the court's defense, this is in response to a case that was filed in 1995. And there have been many decisions against the state throughout this period that haven't been addressed. This is a three-judge panel, a federal judge panel, this is a tentative ruling.
DOBBS: Of the Ninth Circuit?
ROWLANDS: One member of the Ninth Circuit is on this panel, as you might imagine. But this is a tentative ...
DOBBS: By the way, so everyone knows what we're reacting to. The Ninth Circuit is the most reversed appellate court in the United States judicial system, the most liberal, and frankly, they do address each other as comrade in the Ninth Circuit, I believe.
ROWLANDS: I don't know about that, but yes, your description is correct. They have a long history.
DOBBS: How long before we have a resolution?
ROWLANDS: Well, basically you figure it's going to take at least a year for the U.S. Supreme Court to hear this. We're talking two to three years down the line. If this ruling stands. Again, there's going to be huge resistance to it. The odds of it going forward from here are significant. It will go forward from here. The odds of this actually happening, you know, it's hard to say. But this was a big step for those people that think that prison reform is so needed in this state that prisoners should be let go.
DOBBS: Ted, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Ted Rowlands.
Up next here, outrageous comments from Senator Schumer about the so-called stimulus bill and what he calls tiny, porky amendments. Three of the best political analysts join me here next. We'll be talking about that. And Republicans accusing the Obama White House of a power grab over the Census Bureau. Republican Congressman Darrel Issa joins me next. We'll be right back.
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DOBBS: The Obama administration is being accused of politicizing the U.S. Census Bureau. Republicans in Congress outraged that new rules will require the census director to report directly to the president's Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Joining me now is Congressman Darrel Issa. Congressman, good to have you with us.
REP. DARREL ISSA (D), CALIFORNIA: Thanks for having me on, Lou, on this very important subject.
DOBBS: It's interesting to me, I've seen very little discussion of this issue. It is remarkably important. Why do you think that is?
ISSA: Well, first of all, to switch it around, just a few days ago what if Karl Rove had been handed the keys to determine who got how much money in congressional districts? And for that matter, whether Democrat or Republican districts were expanded? All of that is within control of the census. If you count the numbers one way versus another, in other words, honestly versus less than honestly, you determine the outcome of billions of dollars and congressional races around the country.
DOBBS: Are you saying that Rahm Emanuel is a political animal of some sort who would in any way intervene in the process?
ISSA: First of all, Rahm Emanuel is a political animal. He's a known Chicago operative. That's not debatable. The real question is, do we take something which is nonpartisan, intended to be outside of the whole political process, and to be independent and move it from a Cabinet position where we have oversight and we can on a bipartisan basis look at and ask for hearings to the White House, where executive privilege would make it impossible to know what the deliberative process or even what orders were given in how to count. DOBBS: Congressman, apparently Judd Gregg's appointment as commerce secretary is what triggered this. A Republican being appointed by a Democratic president to his Cabinet has set off this firestorm. What's the deal?
ISSA: Well, you know, what's amazing is that the Cabinet office more or less provides funding and administrative oversight to this because ultimately it is an independent, senate-confirmed position that will head the census. That's the way it should be. This should be a nonpartisan, professional managed position that reaches a constitutional obligation, which is the enumeration, the count, the physical count of every person in America on a given date.
DOBBS: Was this, in your judgment, a violation of President Obama's promise to be open, to be public in every respect and also to keep things post-partisan, if you will?
ISSA: Well, I appreciate post-partisan, as a Californian, it's quite a popular term. Clearly this is an attempt to circumvent an honest count. I can't judge President Obama, but I can certainly say that -- reason to take an independent agency and have it report directly to an unconfirmed direct political operative of the president.
DOBBS: All right, Congressman Issa, thank you very much for being with us, as always.
ISSA: Thank you for shedding light on this.
DOBBS: And coming up next here, Democrats, well, they're running that negotiation over the massive spending bill through Congress. Democrats negotiating with Democrats and the Republicans don't like that. At the same time, lawmakers are hammering bank CEOs on how they use all those tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer bailout money. We'll be talking about that and much more with our political panel. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the country's very best political analysts reunited. Robert Zimmerman, who is Democratic National Committeeman, and Republican strategist, former White House political director. Ed Rollins, great to have you with us. Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for the "New York Daily News" Michael Goodwin, good to have you with us.
Let me start with you, Robert.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be back, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, the president promised, his administration promise, transparency, public meetings on conferences. We had our first really big one, think you would say today.
ZIMMERMAN: That's right.
DOBBS: Nobody was allowed in.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, actually, the conference committee is taking place now. Broadcast by some public access networks. However ...
DOBBS: I'm sorry, missed the meeting where they declared ...
ZIMMERMAN: That's right, that was the deal ...
DOBBS: Was that public, broadcast ...
ZIMMERMAN: It's good to be back with you, Lou. The point is this, there are still going to be private conversations ...
DOBBS: Wait, wait, I don't mind private conversations but we had a meeting, a conference on the legislation and it was not public as promised by the Obama administration.
ZIMMERMAN: This was a meeting amongst supporters of the legislation. Not the conference committee meeting and let's face it. Realistically, change takes a little bit of time.
DOBBS: Are you satisfied with that -- that sour defense offered up by Mr. Zimmerman?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, look. I think Obama is having a little trouble making the transition from candidate to president and if you look back on this last three weeks, you total up the mistakes and missteps, and do you have a sense that he is still in the transition. Maybe he didn't feel like he had enough time, but this has not worked out the way, I think, he would have wanted it.
DOBBS: That may be so, but I have to say. I mean, in three weeks and two days, bumbling along with his Cabinet appointees having more of them fail in appointment than any other president in history, he has accomplished a great deal legislatively, setting a new tone of energy. My gosh.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: The great sin was at the press conference the other night, when he stepped in his opening remarks, not answering a question, in his opening remarks, he said the federal government is the only one who can afford to basically step in here and those were his words. The federal government is -- is a trillion dollars in debt, this year will be $2 trillion its ongoing budget next year with $10.7 trillion it owes. So the honesty would be, hey, we can't afford this. We're going to do it but we can't afford it. But to give the impression that this it's just one more appropriation bill. It's the largest bill ever passed by the Congress. Done in less than a week behind closed doors whether Robert wants to say it or not. And at the end of the day, the public has no idea what is in this thing and they're going to pay for it for a very long time.
GOODWIN: Can I say one quick point on top of that, I think he has made a big mistake in not trying harder to bring Republicans into the process. He is going to need Republicans down the road.
DOBBS: You're kidding?
GOODWIN: I really do believe that.
DOBBS: Because first of all, Republicans stood their ground and opposed legislation in the House. Three of what they call them? RINOs, Republicans in name only, go with the democrats and they roll that thing through like a knife through butter. They don't need them, so what's the point?
GOODWIN: Well, they don't need them, but they are going to need them and I think Candy Crowley said earlier, he now owns this problem, this economic problem.
ZIMMERMAN: But Michael, there is a bigger issue here.
GOODWIN: But I would say had he had more Republicans working with him, I think he would have had better ideas and broader support.
ZIMMERMAN: Maybe that would have happened if John Boehner had not instructed the Republican caucus, the Republican conference to vote against this proposal even before Barack Obama chose to meet with them.
ROLLINS: With every member, the system breaks down. I don't care whether Republicans vote on one side, Democrats vote on the other side, which often happens. Every single member represents Americans, and they have the right to the political process and the problem whether it's our side or your side, and we've closed the certain populous out, what difference would it make to have public transparency? That's what Obama promised?
DOBBS: We'll go to a break. You can pick this up if you will when we continue but first, we're going to go to my good friend and colleague Campbell Brown. Do tell us what's coming up at the top of the hour -- Campbell?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, Lou. We're going to have breaking news on the president's stimulus plan. A deal, but what's in, what's out?
Plus, as you know, bank CEOs hauled before Congress, called on the carpet to explain how they're handling taxpayers' money. But will anyone ever be charged with wrongdoing? You're going to see the top executive of the peanut company also refuse to testify in front of Congress. His company being investigated in the nationwide salmonella outbreak.
And the mother of the California octuplets may have to rely on taxpayer money after all to surprise her children and wait until you see the price tag.
We're going to have all that and more at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: Thanks Campbell and we'll be back with our panel in just one minute. Stay with us, we're going to resolve this between the Zimmerman faction and the Rollins faction. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We're back with our panel, Ed Rollins, Michael Goodwin and Robert Zimmerman. Robert, what in the world does your friend Senator Chuck Schumer, what's that about? He thinks Americans don't care about pork and he says it in such a cute way, tiny, porky amendments, I guess when you're dealing with a trillion dollars, you can call pork tiny porky amendments. That's just too cute by half, isn't it.
ZIMMERMAN: He is focusing on his priority, getting Americans back to work.
DOBBS: Whoa!
ZIMMERMAN: And obviously there are going to be ...
DOBBS: Wait a minute, wait a minute. He's so engaged in such lofty, noble enterprises, that he doesn't have time for responsibility in legislating against pork, to make certain there is no waste in government? He's such a big shot now? This is amazing, I can't believe you said that.
ZIMMERMAN: May I have my moment?
DOBBS: You may.
ZIMMERMAN: First of all there, is no one who has been more fiscally prudent and as a New Yorker, as a senator, he's been absolutely on the mark in terms of fighting for taxpayers. But the point here, I'm not saying this just as a Democrat. The point here is his priority is getting people back to work. Obviously there, are aspects of that bill we can all refer to as pork.
DOBBS: What does it mean, tiny porky amendments and we don't care.
ZIMMERMAN: He is saying put this in perspective. There are different interpretations of some of these expenditures. Some may be pork to some people. Bottom line is, the overall 95 percent of this bill is about putting people back to work.
ROLLINS: Is tiny $300 million, $200 million.
DOBBS: Ninety five percent.
ZIMMERMAN: I'm glad you heard me.
DOBBS: Ninety five percent.
ZIMMERMAN: Glad you heard me. At least.
DOBBS: Ninety five percent. You and Senator Schumer.
ZIMMERMAN: I'm standing with Chuck.
DOBBS: Indeed you are. Yes, sir.
ROLLINS: What is the definition of tiny pork? Is that a $300 million project? Or a $500 million project? Or what have you. Pretty soon it adds up to trillions. And that's where we are. That's are problem today.
ZIMMERMAN: But you can't define this bill in terms of being ...
ROLLINS: You have to define the spending bill by the amount of money is in it. Because at the end of the day, which you Democrats don't understand, it's taxpayers' money.
ZIMMERMAN: We learned that from the Republicans for eight years.
DOBBS: You can't mention that without bringing a little historical mention that the Republicans blew open the safe.
ROLLINS: I totally agree. And I did not defend the opening.
ZIMMERMAN: And that's why you see 32 percent of Republicans in America today support Obama.
DOBBS: Robert, unless you want to go on the Campbell Brown's show, we have to conclude.
Thank you very much, Robert. Michael Goodwin, thank you very much. Ed Rollins.
In tonight's poll results, 93 percent of you, are you listening, Mr. Zimmerman, think Senator Chuck Schumer is wrong when he says Americans do not care about tiny, porky amendments.
ZIMMERMAN: I've got to go vote.
DOBBS: All right. Thank you for being with us tonight. We appreciate it. Please join us tomorrow. From all of us, thanks for watching. "CAMPBELL BROWN, NO BIAS, NO BULL" starting right now -- Campbell?
BROWN: Thanks, Lou.
