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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Obama Signs Stimulus Bill Into Law; Ramos, Compean Freed; GM, Chrysler Need More Money
Aired February 17, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: President Obama signed the Democrats' economic stimulus package into law and he promised a new era for this nation's middle class.
Also tonight, the General Motors and Chrysler companies presenting their survival plans to the federal government, saying they need another multibillion-dollar bailout.
And former Border Patrol agents, Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, are finally free, released from prison today after one of the country's most outrageous miscarriages of justice.
Tonight, I'll be talking with Ramos' wife and his attorney. We'll have all of that, all of the day's news and much more, here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. News, debate and opinion for Tuesday, February 17th.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Signed, sealed, and delivered. President Obama's almost $800 billion economic rescue package is now law. President Obama signed off on the huge borrow and spend plan in Denver. The White House doesn't rule out a second stimulus package.
General Motors and Chrysler tonight, they're turning to taxpayers for even more money. The carmakers say they won't survive without billions of dollars in additional aid, and tens of thousands more job cuts. The White House is not ruling out bankruptcy.
We began our breaking news coverage tonight with Candy Crowley in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The president of the United States was in Denver when he signed the most expensive economic bill in history. Message -- this is about you, stick with me.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today does mark the beginning of the end -- the beginning of what we need to do to create jobs for America scrambling in the wake of layoffs, the beginning of what we need to do to provide relief for families worried that they won't be able to pay next month's bills.
CROWLEY: When he was pushing Congress for the stimulus plan, President Obama used distinctly dark language to describe the economy. But as he signed the bill, pushing $787 billion into the gasping U.S. economy, there was a distinct upbeat to the rhetoric.
OBAMA: We have begun the essential work of keeping the American dream alive in our time.
CROWLEY: The president repeatedly cautioned there will be hazards and reverses along the way, not to mention the things still on his to-do list, help for the flailing financial industry, decisions about the teetering auto industry, and tomorrow, in Phoenix, the president will unveil a $50 billion plan to help people in danger of losing perhaps the biggest part of the American dream, their own home.
OBAMA: The road to recovery will not be straight. We will make progress and there may be some slippage along the way. It will demand courage and discipline. It will demand a new sense of responsibility that's been missing from Wall Street all the way to Washington.
CROWLEY: If this is the beginning of the end of the nation's economic problems, it is as well the beginning of something else. By pumping $787 billion of taxpayer money into the economy, the president has begun to own the problem, his political fate is wrapped up in the success of this, and what comes next.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: While enjoying that very supportive audience, the president said the stimulus bill was supported far and wide, but back in Washington, Republicans beg to differ. The Republican National Committee issued a statement saying congressional Democrats wrote the bill behind closed doors and came up with a bill that will not deliver the jobs as promised and will only increase the debt burden on future generations. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Candy. Candy Crowley reporting.
The president signing of that stimulus bill did nothing to boost stocks on Wall Street. In fact, the contrary. The Dow Jones Industrial Average today falling almost 300 points. The Dow tonight at 7,552, just barely above the low reached back in November. It is the lowest close -- second lowest close in almost six years.
Financial stocks among the day's worst performers, 10 to 13 percent losses on -- in the stocks, many of those banks as you see there, and as Candy just reported, President Obama tomorrow unveils his plan to address the foreclosure crisis, that plan is supposed to help homeowners save their homes.
Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): President Obama will announce his housing plan in Mesa, Arizona, where housing prices are down 35 percent in the last year.
OBAMA: We're going to have to help homeowners, not just banks, but homeowners as well.
PILGRIM: The plan is expected to use $50 billion of the remaining $350 billion in TARP funds to subsidize mortgages for troubled homeowners. It will give homeowners an eligibility test to see if they can afford their home.
JOHN TAYLOR, NATL. COMM. REINVESTMENT COALITION: Identify those loans, find out who's still working and then modify those loans so that the people who are still working can continue paying on a mortgage.
PILGRIM: The widely expected proposal potentially would set monthly mortgage payments to 31 percent of pre-tax income.
JAY BUTLER, REALTY STUDIES, ASU: The basic idea as we've seen that the monthly payment will be taken down to some percentage of income, but we also need to look at other things, the value of the home itself. They still have a home that's probably well under the debt they have on it.
PILGRIM: The still unanswered question is, will the principle amount of the mortgage be reduced to reflect market conditions?
AUGUSTINE FAUSCHER, MOODY'S ECONOMY.COM: In exchange for reducing the payment that that -- that the homeowner owes on the house, that the banks would get some money from the federal government, although probably not enough to make up for their losses.
PILGRIM: Last week several large banks, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America, promised to halt foreclosures for at least three weeks in anticipation of the Obama mortgage plan.
Past government plans have only given superficial relief. An existing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac plan put payments at 38 percent of income. A formerly announced FDIC plan streamlines mortgages with reduction in interest but not of principle. And another program, Hope for Homeowners, put the burden on borrowers to refinance at relatively high cost.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now in theory, people could take an eligibility test even before their mortgage becomes delinquent, for example, to restructure a subprime mortgage even before they default, but the eligibility test would only help those who could continue to make the payments and not the millions who have lost their jobs, Lou.
DOBBS: 50 million, that seems to be the number that we are expecting from the Obama White House?
PILGRIM: That's what we are hearing.
DOBBS: Now to put that in some context, JPMorgan Chase alone, am I correct in this, promised $70 billion in loan modifications themselves, one institution?
PILGRIM: Yes, they promised to modify over the next two years, $70 billion.
DOBBS: That seems like an extraordinarily small amount of money in a housing market that's lost $6 trillion in value.
PILGRIM: One of the criticisms we're hearing today, even before the plan is announced, is it may not be large enough to actually address the magnitude of this crisis.
DOBBS: Unbelievable. Well, let's -- we'll hope for the best. How's that?
Kitty Pilgrim, thank you very much.
Well, General Motors and Chrysler executives are hoping for the best. They submitted their survival plans to the Obama administration this evening and their situation is dire. General Motors is asking for an additional $9 billion and now at another $7 billion over the next two years if the industry doesn't improve.
General Motors saying it will cut 21,000 jobs here in this country, a total of 47,000 jobs will be cut worldwide by the end of this year. General Motors also planning to close five more plants.
Chrysler is asking for an additional $2 billion, saying it will cut another 3,000 jobs and eliminate three more vehicle models under the first agreement, the two carmakers already have received over $17 billion in loans, and late this afternoon, General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford -- Ford, which is not involved in this bailout -- reached an agreement with the United Auto Workers union to further cut costs.
The details of the agreement haven't been disclosed but we'll have those details for you just as soon as they are available.
Up later in the broadcast, Michigan's governor, Jennifer Granholm joins us here. We'll be talking with her about what happens next for the auto industry and for Michigan's economy.
Twelve thousand more of our troops will be soon on their way to Afghanistan. Making it his war now, President Obama today approved that troop increase, expected to include 8,000 U.S. Marines based at Camp LeJeune, North Carolina, 4,000 army soldiers from Fort Lewis, Washington. They would be in place in time for the usual increase in fighting that comes with warmer weather in Afghanistan. There are currently 38,000 of our troops in Afghanistan.
Up next, former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean are finally free, released from prison today. We'll have that emotional family reunion here next and we'll tell you who's saying the president's massive new stimulus package, the costliest ever, just isn't enough.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The founder of a Muslim television network in New York is the suspect in the beheading of his wife. Muzzammil Hassan is due in court in suburban Buffalo tomorrow. He faces a second-degree murder charge.
You may be asked yourself how in the world do you get a second- degree murder charge beheading your wife. Well, police say they arrested him last Thursday, that after he led them to his wife's body, her body found inside the office of Bridges Television.
She had filed for divorce.
Hassan founded that network for Muslim Americans five years ago with the goal, he said, of ending negative stereotypes about Muslims and other stereotypes associated with Islam.
A federal jury today returned a split decision in the case of Arizona rancher Roger Barnett but it was by any definition a victory for Barnett. He was charged with violating the civil rights of a group of illegal aliens trespassing on his property. Barnett detained them at gunpoint on his own property.
The jury ruled in favor of Barnett on the most serious charges, charges of civil rights violations. They also ruled for Barnett on false imprisonment and charges of battery but the jury did rule for four of the six plaintiffs on mental anguish claims but the jury said those illegal aliens shared some responsibility.
Barnett's attorney, David Hardy, telling us they will appeal that decision but overall, he said, Barnett won a lot more than he lost. They had sought more than $30 million in damages. The jury awarded them $75,000.
The Securities and Exchange Commission has exposed massive fraud with worldwide repercussions. Tonight, Texas financier, Alan Stanford, charged with masterminding a more than $9 billion investment scheme through his Stanford Group Companies.
Federal marshals today raiding the company's headquarters in Houston. The scheme allegedly involved the selling of certificates of deposit and mutual funds with false promises of unprecedented returns.
Senator Roland Burris is now publicly admitting that he tried to raise funds for former governor Rod Blagojevich. This at the same time he was seeking the Senate seat left open by President Obama and being offered him by Governor Blagojevich -- former Governor Blagojevich.
Senator Burris has previously said fund-raising would have been inappropriate but now he says he did look into raising money at the request of the former governor's brother. Burris is defending his actions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ROLAND BURRIS (D), ILLINOIS: There were never any inappropriate conversations between me and anyone else, and I will answer any and all questions to get that point across to keep my faith with the citizens of Illinois.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Tonight, many Democratic and Republican officials are calling for a much deeper investigation of Burris.
The economic crisis is leaving some states with massive debt and mismanagement, of course, of the state government. Today California started warning 20,000 state workers they may soon lose their jobs. The state of Kansas suspending income tax refund checks facing even more money problems.
Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Kansas was on the verge of not making payroll this week. The state's general fund has dwindled down to only $10 million. State budget director Duane Goossen says the state also has stopped processing tax returns.
DUANE GOOSSEN, KANSAS BUDGET DIRECTOR: There are pending income tax refunds, which we have not been able to pay because there have not -- the cash has not been there.
SYLVESTER: Kansas officials barely avoided a financial crisis, reaching a last-minute deal to borrow $225 million from other state funds to cover the shortfall. But middle class Kansas families have been left in a lurch, says Jane Carter who represents the state employees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At what point do mortgages and food and child care not come into play.
SYLVESTER: Kansas is not alone in its financial trouble. 20,000 California state workers are getting pink slips after the state legislature there failed to close a $42 billion deficit.
The stimulus package signed by President Obama offers relief for states but the stimulus money is not enough to cover the deficits facing states. Looking at the stimulus package, only about $130 billion has been allocated for states relief to stabilize budgets and assists with Medicaid payments. But the National Governor's Association forecasts state shortfalls totaling between $250 and $300 billion over the next three years.
Analysts say the outlook is negative.
EDIE BEHR, MOODY'S: This is the worst economic downturn we've seen since the Great Depression. We expect this recession to be long and deep, and certainly the fiscal stimulus money will help, but it may not be the end-all.
SYLVESTER: And for states facing immediate cash flow problems that need the money in a matter of hours, stimulus money is not going to come fast enough.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And most of the states require balanced budgets, so unlike the federal government, they can't just print their way out or go outside to borrow their way out of this current financial mess. Lou?
DOBBS: Yes, and they could have perhaps managed their way and avoided this mess with responsible fiscal policies but, of course, that would be asking a great deal of state government in California in particular.
Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
The Obama administration today didn't rule out asking for a second stimulus package. We'd like to know what you think about that. Here's our poll question tonight. Do you believe the Obama administration will be asking for a second stimulus package? Yes or no. This will be interesting. Cast your vote at Loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
I'm wondering what the answer will be.
And in tonight's "Gut Check" we're commending Illinois's freshman Republican congressman, Aaron Schock. You know the day before the House voted on the stimulus bill there was a lot of pressure on Republicans. President Obama, in fact, invited Congressman Schock to ride with him on that big old Air Force One back to the home -- their state of Illinois.
Then in a press conference in Peoria, President Obama said he had great confidence in Schock to do the right thing for the people of Peoria. 24 hours later the 27-year-old congressman voted against the economic stimulus package. Schock saying the economic stimulus package won't do anything to create long-term sustained economic growth.
By the way, the Congressional Budget Office agrees with him on that over a ten-year period.
Schock is the youngest congressman to serve right now on Capitol Hill.
Up next, steroids and baseball's $300 million man.
Also ahead -- we'll be showing you what happened after the woman, well, became somewhat emotional in the middle of an obviously busy airport. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A woman in Connecticut tonight in critical condition after being brutally attacked by a 200-pound chimpanzee. Police say the chimp named Travis attacked the woman at its owner's home yesterday. The woman was reportedly at that house trying to help her friend, the owner, subdue Travis. Police ultimately shot and killed the chimp.
The owner says the chimp suffered from Lyme disease and that may have caused the mental condition that ultimately brought about the attack.
A video of a woman's tantrum at Hong Kong International Airport is now a huge hit on the Internet. The woman is seen, as you can see here, becoming somewhat upset, yelling at Cafe Pacific workers, even pounding on the ticket counter after she missed a flight to San Francisco.
But, of course, it doesn't end there. It just couldn't. She runs around shrieking and crying, and then collapses to the floor. The airlines says it placed the woman and her companion on a later flight to Los Angeles. This video we are being told now has been viewed more than half a million times on YouTube.
Yankees superstar Alex Rodriguez answered more questions today about his use of steroids. A-Rod admitted to injecting an over-the- counter drug from the Dominican Republic. He says he used it about twice a month over a three-year period starting in 2001. Today A-Rod went before reporters and explained why he was so secretive about what he was taking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX RODRIGUEZ, YANKEES 3RD BASEMAN: I knew we weren't taking Tic-Tacs. You know, I knew that it was -- potentially could be something that perhaps was wrong, but I really didn't get into the investigation. Perhaps like I would have. I mean, I wouldn't imagine thinking of doing something like that today, obviously. It's a different world. It's a different culture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Culture that's not as lenient on Tic-Tacs. Rodriguez says he stopped taking that drug because of a neck injury he suffered in 2003.
The Rodriguez scandal has raised a lot of questions about his statistics. A-Rod is currently on pace to break Barry Bonds' career record of 762 homeruns. There may be a lot of asterisks, however, in the old record book.
Bonds, of course, is charged with lying to a grand jury about his own steroid use. It will have to be sorted out by the commissioner of baseball, I'm sure, at some point in the future.
Time now for some of your thoughts. Jim in Arkansas said, "The stimulus package proves that it is business as usual in D.C. I do not see any real thinking or planning in this proposal. It's no more than a shotgun blast from 100 feet away trying to hit a mosquito."
Diane in Kentucky, "I hope that you keep the e-Verify program and the border fence in the news until the politicians realize that these are good programs and Americans want them."
I guarantee it.
And Robert in California said, "Lou, our government should always purchase materials from our own suppliers and manufacturers especially billion-dollar helicopters."
I agree with you again. We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts to Loudobbs.com.
Up next, President Obama saying he'll keep the American dream alive. We'll be talking about the stimulus package, three of my favorite radio talk show hosts join me.
And an outrageous miscarriage of justice today. The two principal victims of that outrageous miscarriage are now free men. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean tonight are free, released from federal prison at least. Four years ago today the two agents shot and wounded an illegal alien drug smuggler that they were pursuing. They were convicted in that shooting on the testimony of that drug dealer and illegal alien who was given immunity to testify against the agents.
They were sentenced to lengthy prison terms. The sentences were commuted by President Bush in one of his final acts as president.
The Ramos and Compean prosecution is an outrageous miscarriage of justice that this broadcast has reported on from the outset.
Casey Wian has our report tonight from El Paso, Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): After 25 months behind bars, former Border Patrol agent Ignacio "Nacho" Ramos walked out of prison Tuesday nearly a freeman.
LOU DOBBS TONIGHT was on the flight carrying Nacho, his wife, Monica, and his attorney from Phoenix where he spent most of his time in solitary protective custody, to El Paso where supporters welcomed Ramos home.
Last month outgoing President Bush granted Ramos and fellow former agent Jose Compean commutations of their 11- and 12-year prison sentences for shooting and wounding a drug smuggler in 2005. MONICA RAMOS, IGNACIO RAMOS' WIFE: He was a free man. He wasn't being escorted by six, seven guards at one time. Seeing that bright orange outfit, it was just great to see him and to see his smile.
WIAN: Ramos and Compean are under orders from the Federal Bureau of Prisons not to speak with reporters until their commutations are effective March 20th. They will serve in home confinement until then.
Their convictions outraged more than 100 members of Congress and hundreds of thousands of supporters who bombarded the White House with demands for the agents' release.
JOE LOYA, IGNACIO RAMOS' FATHER-IN-LAW: I never gave up. I have a lot of faith. And I -- and every time I saw Nacho, everything I went to visit him, I just told him you take care of yourself. We're going to get you out, and it happened finally.
WIAN: The agents were convicted largely on the testimony of Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, an illegal alien from Mexico who has since pleaded guilty to drug smuggling charges. Some of those trafficking offenses occurred while he was under immunity from prosecution to testify against the agents.
Ramos and Compean are continuing to pursue with the U.S. Supreme Court an effort to overturn their convictions. For now, Ramos will spend time getting reacquainted with his wife, three sons and scores of family and friends.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Last week Ramos turned 40 in prison. Today he's having a belated birthday celebration at home. One of the agents' chief congressional advocates, California congressman Dana Rohrabacher, said at last Ramos and Compean have been rightfully reunited with their families. This day is long overdue. Lou?
DOBBS: Without any question whatsoever.
It looks like there was a ton of supporter there is as Ignacio Ramos arrived in El Paso. Do you got an estimate about how many people were there? It looked huge.
WIAN: There were several dozen, Lou. I was behind him when he was coming down the stairs to be greeted by those supporters. My guess, probably 50 or 60. It's an amazing turnout given the fact that most of those folks did not know he was going to be released until last night or early this morning. It was quite the outpouring of local support for former agent Ramos -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey Wian who has done the stalwart reporting throughout from the very beginning of this case, outstanding reporting, and thank you again tonight. Casey Wian from El Paso.
Joining me now: Monica Ramos, Ignacio Ramos' wife and David Botsford, Ramos's attorney. Welcome to you both. And Monica, to you first of all, congratulations. I know that this is a day that you and your very supportive family have been waiting for and working so hard for. How is your husband doing?
MONICA RAMOS, IGNACIO RAMOS'S WIFE: He's doing great. He's right now spending some quality time with friends and family back home.
DOBBS: And what was your reaction when he saw all those supporters there? What was your thoughts as you arrived in El Paso?
RAMOS: I think it was wonderful. I know it's been a little overwhelming for him. You know, he's still trying to adapt to his surroundings right now, absorbing the environment, everybody that was around him. But he's just extremely grateful that so much support was there to welcome him home.
DOBBS: And he's had great support from you, from Joe, your father, your whole family. He's got to be so deeply appreciative of that.
How are your kids doing? How are they reacting?
RAMOS: They're just in heaven, to look forward to the days to come now, that their dad's home and they can actually do things with their dad again. They're extremely excited. They're having a dinner with him right now as we speak.
DOBBS: Terrific.
David Botsford, what are the conditions of Ignacio Ramos' release and the release of Jose Compean?
DAVID BOTSFORD, IGNACIO RAMOS' ATTORNEY: Essentially, Lou, until March 20th, both of the gentlemen will be in home confinement, essentially being in their home on electronic monitors. They can go to doctor's appointments, that sort of thing, and also to church for religious services, but otherwise, they're basically restricted to their homes.
DOBBS: Let me ask you. You've said in a statement that Ignacio Ramos was quoted -- and if we can put that up, I'd just like everybody to see this if we could, please -- was "subjected to conditions more onerous than those imposed upon the foreign detainees in Guantanamo Bay." You obviously sincerely believe that.
What does that say about our system of justice, our corrections department particularly at the federal level if that's the case?
BOTSFORD: Well, Lou, Ignacio's situation was that he was assaulted when he was at the Mississippi unit, the first unit he went to. Because of that, he was put into protective custody, it was called a shoe unit. So he was locked down 23 hours a day. He's in solitary confinement.
The conditions that he suffered, suffered from during that period of time basically, you know, 22 1/2 months, are more onerous than those imposed on the detainees in Gitmo. That was instrumental, I believe, in getting the president to commute this sentence. DOBBS: David, what are the next legal steps here for Ignacio and for Jose Compean? Do they have recourse? Is there a way to set this obvious, obvious miscarriage of justice right?
BOTSFORD: Lou, I believe so. I'm not going to stop fighting until we get to the bitter end. Currently we have a petition before the Supreme Court of the United States asking the Supreme Court to review the remaining convictions that are still there after the Fifth Circuit vacated or threw out all the convictions on the obstruction of justice. I can't tell you what the Supreme Court's going to do obviously that's an uphill battle. But there are a number of legal issues that will remain after the Supreme Court has resolved the issues that are in front of that, and we will proceed back into federal district court to resolve those remaining issues, as is his right.
DOBBS: David, thank you so much.
Monica, thank you. I know this is a happy, happy day for you, and I just want to, again, compliment you. You've been a fierce warrior for your husband, for your family, and all our best. And our very best as well to Ignacio, that you can deliver in person tonight. I hope you well.
RAMOS: Thank you.
DOBBS: Thank you both. David Botsford thank you. Monica Ramos thank you.
Well, Jose Compean as we reported also released today, serving his sentence in Ohio, traveling back to his Texas home. We wish Jose and his family our very best and we hope to talk with them soon here.
In Mexico today, hundreds of protesters demanding that the Mexican army leave their towns. The protesters blocked bridges at several border crossings including Juarez and that border crossing with El Paso, Texas, obviously, that brought traffic to a halt for hours on the border.
A shootout erupted in one town, although authorities say it does appear unrelated to the demonstrations. Mexican government officials claim drug cartels were behind a similar protest earlier this month.
Up next, the economic crisis and President Obama's solution. I'll be joined by three of the country's best radio talk show hosts.
And the carmakers looking for more money, looking to cut more jobs. Is this a smart economic deal? We'll be talking with Michigan's governor, Jennifer Granholm here next.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, Michigan, of course, is at the center of the automobile industry's disaster. Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country and the state is likely to be particularly affected by the president's stimulus package and not all of that effect will likely be positive.
Michigan's governor, Jennifer Granholm, Governor Granholm joins us tonight. Good to have us with us, Governor.
GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM, MICHIGAN: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Are you feeling pretty good about first let's go first with the stimulus package itself. Our calculations are it's going to provide something around $1.5 billion directly to the state of Michigan. Is that enough for a state that has a better than 10 percent unemployment rate?
GRANHOLM: It's actually going to be more than that, Lou, but clearly it's going to help. It's going to help a lot for those who are unemployed currently, extending their unemployment benefits. It's going to make sure we're not going to have to cut people off of health care and it's going to allow to us make some direct investments that will create jobs.
But I feel a bit whipped side today because at the same time we're trying to create jobs and preserve jobs through the stimulus package, on the other hand the auto industry still experiencing this enormous contraction and now supplying these plans which are going to cost tens of thousands of more good paying middle class manufacturing jobs.
DOBBS: Chrysler and General Motors just to underscore what you're saying talking about eliminating another 50,000 jobs, cutting five plants at General Motors; three models to be discontinued at Chrysler. The list goes on and on.
Governor, I've got to give you credit. There's no governor in this union who has been hit as hard as the state that you are responsible for. These are disastrous numbers because we're talking about over $3 billion a year just in -- lost direct wages here. How do you recover from this?
GRANHOLM: I mean, Lou, we have -- since the year 2000, Michigan has lost over 400,000 jobs, just our state alone, vast majority related to automotive and manufacturing. And it begs the question about in this nation, are we going to support a manufacturing industry?
Everybody keeps talking about the Great Depression and what happened during the Great Depression, and how we pulled out of it when we started to manufacture things for World War II. If we decide as a nation that it's not worth manufacturing things or making things, then we have carved out this massive hole in our economy.
It is so frustrating that we don't have a manufacturing policy and that we've got trade agreements that ship jobs overseas that believe me -- no, no, no -- I'm an advocate.
DOBBS: Absolutely, you've been throughout but I remember you standing shoulder to shoulder with President Obama, Candidate Obama, supporting him, calling for his election. And I'm hearing this president talk about NAFTA as if he was a charter founder of NAFTA.
I don't hear -- we're talking about a lot of money here in the economic stimulus package but I don't hear the Democrats who are running Congress and the White House talking about changing the policies that have driven this country to the state it's in, in terms of the structure of its manufacturing base and particularly in your state.
GRANHOLM: Yes, I mean, Lou, and I fully support the president and he has said the right things when he has come to Michigan and when he has gone to other states that have their middle class hallowed out like we have or like Ohio has. And I believe that he wants to keep manufacturing jobs in this country.
But I can say that the day that we submit this plan is the day that we got the stimulus package. And the plan that the auto industry submits this restructuring which in Michigan is code for job loss, it means basically that we have decided that we're washing our hands of the manufacturing industry if they don't get the assistance to continue and we should be very keen about this.
DOBBS: Governor, why then aren't we hearing talk about the important public policy decisions including what are we going to do on trade? When are we going to continue this nonsense about "free trade" which has cost millions of jobs, cost $7 trillion in trade debt and you've got fools running around this country talking about if you want as I do, balanced, reciprocal and mutual trade, that you're a protectionist.
When are we going to have a president and a Democratic leadership in Congress has the guts to say the American worker will be first, we will create incentives to build our manufacturing base, and we will honor the commitment of this nation to self-reliance and independence?
GRANHOLM: I'm hoping that this administration will, in fact, do that, Lou. It is critical to have a trade representative that is going to support our country. I don't have a single problem with that "Buy America" language that's in the stimulus bill.
You better believe my taxpayer dollars, our taxpayer dollars in Michigan, we don't want the taxpayer dollars used to create jobs in other countries. We want them used to be able to create jobs in this country and that's not being protectionist. That is just saying that we are going to do what other countries are doing. We're not saying to put up barriers here. We're saying take them down in other places so that we have a level playing field.
DOBBS: You know you're going to be -- what is it, Gary Shapiro the head of the Consumer Electronics Association, it's a lobbying organization for companies that are exporting in the United States, he calls me a protectionist and a xenophobe because I want balanced mutual reciprocal trade --
GRANHOLM: That's exactly right. DOBBS: -- the same trade policies that are being practiced by our principal trading partners, whether they be the European Union, China, Japan or whatever. I mean --
GRANHOLM: I don't know how you feel about this, Lou, but I also think that a piece of that means that if you're going to really level the playing field that you have to support our industry here in the same way other countries support their industries over there. And that means making sure that we have a uniquely American solution to the cost of health care in this country, that's $1,500 per vehicle. If you're going to have a fair playing field, have a fair playing field.
DOBBS: I'm one of those fools who believes that the world's richest consumer economy probably should be able to support its own automobile industry. That's just a wild thought.
GRANHOLM: Amen, brother. Preach it Lou, preach it.
DOBBS: Governor, thanks for being with us. We appreciate it. I wish you all the best.
GRANHOLM: Thank you, appreciate it.
DOBBS: Governor Jennifer Granholm.
A reminder on how to vote on our poll: the question is do you believe the Obama administration will ask for a second stimulus package? Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here in just a few minutes.
Up next, how long will it take for this stimulus to help struggling Americans and how much help will be on the way? Millions of Americans making do without tax refund checks, how do you feel about an IOU? We'll be talking about that with our radio talk show hosts here next.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
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DOBBS: Joining me now, three of my favorite radio talk show hosts: in Kansas City, Chris Stigall, KCMO; in our Washington D.C. bureau, Joe Madison, Sirius XM radio; here in New York, Joy Browne, colleague at WOR I'm proud to say. Joy great to see you.
Let's start with "The Daily News" in New York reporting, my gosh, that former Vice President Dick Cheney was furious with George Bush for not pardoning Scooter Libby and that story break on the day when obviously Ramos and Compean come out of prison. Your thoughts, Joy?
JOY BROWNE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, WOR: I think Cheney and Bush have probably been mad at each other for a lot longer than just today. My understanding is they didn't speak for most of the last several years. Isn't that the sense that you had?
DOBBS: My sense of the thing is frankly, for so many years now I haven't cared what either of them really did.
Joe Madison, your thoughts?
JOE MADISON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, SIRIUS-XM: I agree with you, I really don't care at this point in time. I think his sentence was commuted if I'm not mistaken. I guess the pardon would probably have to do with him being able to practice law later on. But the thing that apparently upset Cheney, and we'll talk about it tomorrow, is the fact that they didn't do it because of PR reasons.
So you know, we've got bigger issues than whether Bush is upset with Cheney.
DOBBS: Speaking of bigger issues, President Obama signs an $800 stimulus package that we now know will come to about $3 trillion with debt servicing over the next decade. How's he doing? This -- we're celebrating today his fourth week as president.
CHRIS STIGALL, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, KCMO: Yes and 17,000 troops just got sent to Afghanistan today, by the way, Lou. God bless every last one of them. Interesting pick of a day wasn't it?
DOBBS: It is a tough one. But going to that issue -- four weeks in office; this man, whether you agree with him or disagree with him or his policies, he is putting on a powerhouse performance here.
BROWNE: He is not sitting around. As someone said it's now become his war, number one. Number two, with the stimulus package -- as far as I am concerned we talked before about recovery.gov so you can really see where the money is going. I want to know specifics. * You can toss around the rhetoric. You also notice today any bipartisanship sort of evaporated; so much for everybody pushing together on this one.
DOBBS: I haven't seen much bipartisanship.
BROWNE: That was elusive.
STIGALL: Never existed. Not unless you are three northeast Republicans.
MADISON: Well it really doesn't exist at all. And I think this is more of a recovery plan than it is a stimulus plan.
Now I'm trying to push as you know, Lou, something called saveoureconomy.com. I'm hoping Congress that will do for mortgage holders what they did for mortgage bankers on Wall Street. We have been pushing to Congress to enact a 12-month mortgage holiday for businesses, farms, and residents.
Let me tell you, you could put about $100 billion a month into the economy. Now that's stimulating the economy. And people really need to take a look at it. I hope that president Obama does.
DOBBS: We have got a solution coming tomorrow, ostensibly, a $50 billion solution, which seems somewhat inadequate since we have lost $6 trillion in our housing industry over the course of the crisis.
But turning today to the automobile workers; the automobile workers' union -- the UAW, agreeing apparently -- we haven't got the details yet -- with all three car companies. The two run by the U.S. government and ford, and we're also hearing from General Motors and Chrysler tonight that, "Give us your money, but we are going to cut 50,000 jobs." That is over $3 billion a year in lost wages in Detroit alone.
BROWNE: Do you know, Lou, I may be naive but that seems to me almost like blackmail. Okay we got you to give this much money. Now unless you give us more -- I have been, as you know I deal with people talking about problems every day. And Michigan is one of my major stations.
People have been unemployed, having marital problems, having financial problems, worrying what do I do with my kids living at my house with their grown children. There seems to me to be -- I mean, you guys can explain this to me. When I am going to bounce a check, I know it. How can two states of today say that they were running out of money? Today. How can that be?
DOBBS: There's no question, that's a Joe Madison question.
MADISON: Well, let me tell you -- I lived in Detroit for 20 years. I got married there. My children were born there, at least three of the four. I just think it is absolutely awful. This is about jobs going -- and you talked with the governor -- going overseas, going out of this country. I don't think auto workers should lower their standard of living to try to compete with people in other countries. It is absolutely absurd.
DOBBS: You know, the truth is -- we're going to talk about more than auto workers. The fact is that that is precisely what the elites of this country -- as I have been saying for years -- are doing. They don't want to compete on the CEO level. They don't want to compete financially. But they want the middle-class in this country to compete with the cheapest labor in the word.
I'm going to be back with Joe Madison, Chris Stigall and Joy Browne here next.
But first coming up at the top of the hour, Campbell Brown, "No Bias, No Bull." Campbell, tell us all about it.
CAMPBELL, CNN ANCHOR, "NO BIAS, NO BULL": Hey there, Lou.
Well, the economy for us as for you, front and center tonight. President Obama's mammoth rescue plan now law. We'll look at what it means for all of us and for all the other things on the president's to-do list.
And Lou, we're going to talk more about what you guys are just talking about. We are learning now two of the big three automakers need billions more in government loans and are also planning huge numbers of layoffs. Also ahead, the growing scandal surrounding the senator who replaced President Obama: we'll have the explosive new twist in his story about what he did before he landed that seat.
And Donald Trump tells me why the casino firm bearing his name is bankrupt again. We'll also get his take on our ailing economy.
All that at the top of the hour -- Lou.
DOBBS: That would be three times, I believe?
BROWN: You are right. You are right.
DOBBS: By now Donald should have it pretty well figured out why it is going bankrupt. Thanks for that.
Please join me on the radio Monday through Friday for the "Lou Dobbs Show." Tomorrow, Gabor Steingart, author "The War for Wealth" will be joining me amongst our other guests to talk about what is going on in the economy. Mark Preston, CNN political editor giving us his thoughts on what is happening politically. That's 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. on WOR 710 Radio in New York City. Go to loudobbsradio.com to get the local listings in your area for the show.
Coming up next, we'll have more with our panel. Tonight's poll results -- it gets better and better. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Back with our panel now: Chris Stigall, Joe Madison, Joy Browne.
Joy, Governor Palin's daughter talking about abstinence today?
BROWNE: Well, no. She said she wants to now go around apparently to high school students and talk about not getting pregnant as a teenager, an unwed teenager. And her mother suggested abstinence. She says it doesn't work. I want to know what she's going to suggest. I want to know if the "C" word, like condom is going to be part of her discussion.
I want to know specifics. Stimulus, un-stimulus -- I want to know specifics.
DOBBS: I wonder if the "M" word will be part of the discussion?
BROWNE: Like marriage?
DOBBS: Or morality.
BROWNE: Morality?
DOBBS: How about "V" word - values. Any room for any of that stuff?
BROWNE: How about "S" word - sex? How about "H" word - hormone? DOBBS: Well, I think that brings up the issue.
BROWNE: I think we have to be a little realistic.
DOBBS: I would love to be. I just think that we ought to be all inclusive in our discussion. I hate being exclusionary.
BROWNE: I think all of the above.
DOBBS: Let me turn real quickly to your state, Chris Stigall, is bankrupt. What are you doing about it? I feel sorry for you? You and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
STIGALL: Right. Shocking news today apparently George Bush and Dick Cheney don't march to the same tune. And a teenage daughter disagrees with her mother. There's a huge headline for the day.
Now to real problems of the day. My governor is bankrupting the state of Kansas. Kathleen Sebelius was forced to sign off on a bill that basically reduced spending. She had no choice. It was either borrow more money which she couldn't constitutionally do or reduce spending. And shazam, a bill was signed 11th hour. People are going to get their income tax refunds and government workers until this hour were not sure they were going to get paid at the end of the week, Lou.
It was a disaster. And I never thought I would see it in Kansas.
DOBBS: Rationality or balancing the budget?
STIGALL: Reduced rate of spending. I'm not cutting, don't listen to budget cuts. It is a reduced rate of spending.
DOBBS: Got you.
MADISON: I want to add real quick. Lou, I want to thank you for what you did for those border patrolmen. I will tell you this is what media really should be about.
All of us, in this business we call talk radio have a responsibility, not just to do news, but to activate people to take action. And, you really need to be congratulated. I will probably lose half my audience for saying that.
(CROSS TALK)
DOBBS: You know what you will have back another half.
BROWNE: Lou loves you. Lou loves you.
DOBBS: That's very nice of you, Joe. It's one of the reasons I'm very proud to be your colleague as talk radio show host. I thank you all three for being here. Thank you, folks, Joe, Chris, Joy. Thank you.
And our poll results -- 95 percent of you say the Obama administration will be asking for a second stimulus package. That's why I love this audience.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Good night from New York.
Campbell Brown, "No Bias, No Bull" starting now. Campbell?
