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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Troops out of Iraq; Backlash on Capitol Hill; Redistributing Wealth; Welfare State; Octomom Outrage; North Korean Missile Test
Aired February 27, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf. Tonight President Obama sets a timetable for withdrawal of troops from Iraq, this after the success of the surge and a strategy the president opposed when he was a senator.
Also tonight, new outrage over charges the Obama administration wants to take away your Second Amendment rights to bear arms. And we'll tell you what the head of the National Rifle Association is saying about that.
Also tonight, top officials in the state of West Virginia are receiving hefty pay raises. But many state workers make so little, they qualify for welfare. We'll have a special report you'll see only on LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, all that and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Friday, February 27th. Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
President Obama today promised to bring all our troops home from Iraq with honor by the end of 2011. Now the president said our combat mission in Iraq will finish by August 31st next year. But up to 50,000 of our troops will remain until 2012. Now, many Democrats, though, are unhappy with the president's plan. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others want a much quicker withdrawal from Iraq. Dan Lothian is traveling with the president and reports from Camp Lejeune, North Carolina.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Almost six years after the war in Iraq began President Obama told Marines at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, unequivocally, the end is near.
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me say this as plainly as I can. By August 31st, 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end.
LOTHIAN: But the president's plan to withdraw troops which he calls responsible will leave 35 to 50,000 U.S. troops still on the ground in Iraq to take on an advisory role, training Iraqi forces, supporting civilian operations, and conducting counterterrorism missions. All of which could involve combat and getting killed despite what the president announced.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Combat (ph)...
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Yes. The president's been very explicit and was very explicit I think in his speech, that this remaining force will engage in counterterrorism operations.
LOTHIAN: The president's plan to pull troops out of Iraq in 19 months is longer than the pledge he repeated endlessly on the campaign trail.
OBAMA: We would have our combat troops out in 16 months, out of Iraq within 16 months.
LOTHIAN: The White House says Defense Secretary Gates and military commanders wanted more time to ensure stability on the ground during Iraq's parliamentary elections in December and to make the transition easier.
OBAMA: The drawdown of our military should send a clear signal that Iraq's future is now its own responsibility.
LOTHIAN: A recent CNN Opinion Research poll shows 69 percent of Americans want most troops out of Iraq. But some experts are more cautious.
MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Well it's certainly on the fast side of what I would say is advisable. And the 23-month option that was apparently developed would be even better by my eyes.
LOTHIAN: The president's speech got a mostly tepid response from 2,000 Marines, until he said this.
OBAMA: We will raise military pay and continue providing...
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks so very much for coming.
LOTHIAN: Eight thousand Marines from Camp Lejeune will soon be deployed to Afghanistan. Private First Class Eric Dorsey (ph) who gave a salute to the president's speech is one of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To fight for something that you believe in, yeah.
LOTHIAN (on camera): The Pentagon won't say when the troops affected by this plan will start pulling out of Iraq. But there is a deadline looming for all 142,000 troops, December 31st, 2011, that's the date agreed to last year by the Bush administration and the Iraqi government -- Kitty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Thank you, Dan -- Dan Lothian reporting there from Camp Lejeune in North Carolina. Well Defense Secretary Robert Gates today suggested some U.S. troops might stay in Iraq after the president's withdrawal deadline of December 31st, 2011. Now Gates was saying what he called a modest force might remain to assist Iraqi troops and police.
Top congressional Democrats tonight say the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq is too slow and they're particularly concerned about plans to leave as many as 50,000 of our troops in Iraq until the end of 2011. Many Republicans, however, support President Obama's plan. Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here's something you never thought you'd hear from John McCain about his former rival on Iraq.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I'm cautiously optimistic that the plan as laid out by the president can lead to success.
BASH: After all, McCain spent all of 2008 pounding then Senator Obama's plan to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq.
MCCAIN: He wants to reverse the gains we have made and set a date for withdrawal, which would endanger our progress in Iraq.
BASH: But now McCain supports President Obama's withdrawal plan, because he leaves as many as 50,000 troops in Iraq. McCain calls that imperative for stability. Ironically, it's the president's fellow Democrats launching criticism. In a Capitol hallway, Democratic Senator Byron Dorgan told CNN...
VOICE OF SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: I would prefer to see him draw that down further because you know what happens it's just as in the case of Korea, they just stay there forever.
BASH: The Democratic chairman of the Armed Services Committee, Carl Levin said, "I'd expected that the size of the residual force would have been lower than 35 to 50,000 troops. Other Democrats are less diplomatic. California Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey (ph) ripped into the president's plan saying, "Such a large number can only be viewed by the Iraqi public as an enduring occupation force. This is unacceptable."
Congresswoman Donna Edwards challenged and beat a fellow Democrat who voted for the Iraq war. She's not happy either, and will be demanding more details.
REP. DONNA EDWARDS (D), MARYLAND: Many of us in Congress are going to be asking, you know you tell us what every single one of those troops who are left, after the major withdrawal of the majority of the troops, what they're left and what they're doing.
BASH: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said this to reporters Thursday.
VOICE OF SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: That's a little higher number than I had anticipated.
BASH: And at a White House briefing, CNN is told Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi expressed their concerns directly to President Obama.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: CNN has learned from sources familiar with that private White House meeting that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told the president that he thinks he will have an easier time selling his plan if he highlights the lower range, 35,000 troops in Iraq, and we're told that he actually urged the president to focus his rhetoric on that range, saying 35,000 to 50,000 troops, which we did hear President Obama say today and it really is interesting, Kitty, it gives you a sense of how sensitive politically and otherwise Democrats still are to this issue.
PILGRIM: Yeah. It certainly is a tough one. Dana, we're hearing this outcry, but will it really lead to anything do you believe?
BASH: Probably not. You know what was interesting in talking to some Democrats today that they said that they really wanted to get an accounting from President Obama of what these troops are going to do, how they're going to be used, but at the end of the day, likely not. I mean I think that they realize that it is what it is. And what President Obama is doing is based on what he's hearing from his leaders at the Pentagon.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Dana Bash -- thanks, Dana.
Well in Iraq, insurgents have killed another one of our troops. Now this soldier was killed in Baghdad; 15 of our troops have been killed in Iraq so far this month; 4,251 of our troops have been killed since the war began; 31,089 of our troops have been wounded; 13,706 troops wounded seriously.
Let's turn to our worsening economy. The federal government today launched a major new effort to rescue Citigroup. Now this is the third rescue plan in five months. The Treasury Department will take control of as much as 36 percent of Citi's common stock. The government though is not giving Citi any additional cash, but this does expose the taxpayer to more risk. Citigroup has already received $45 billion of government bailout money.
More trouble tonight for another big bank, Bank of America. Now the New York Attorney General's Office served a subpoena on the bank to force it to reveal details of bonuses paid to Merrill Lynch staff. And those bonuses were handed out just before Bank of America took over Merrill Lynch on January 1st. One leading Democratic Senator, Byron Dorgan, accused top financial executives of nothing less than bank robbery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DORGAN: A whole lot of folks have robbed big banks in this country of their financial viability; have robbed those banks of their strength through horrible decisions, even as they have taken from those banks massive amounts of money for themselves. That's bank robbery. No, it's a different kind. There's no violence. They're wearing suits, flying in private jets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: And for the record, we should point out that Bank of America has received $45 billion of government bailout money. It's the same as Citigroup.
New evidence today of the impact of the financial crisis and the recession on our economy, the government is saying that our economy shrank by more than six percent in the last three months of 2008. That is the worst decline in more than a quarter century. And that economic report and the news about Citigroup helped push the Dow Jones Industrial average down 120 points today. Citigroup was down 39 percent. The Dow is down more than 50 percent, below the record high that it set in October of 2007.
Still to come the battle over who will benefit from the president's massive new budget, a budget that will redistribute wealth in this country.
Also, dangerous wildfires in Texas, ash is raining down on towns and we'll have the very latest on that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: There are new questions tonight about the president's -- President Obama's massive new budget. Who benefits from that? Well, Republicans say the budget will lead to higher taxes, soaring government spending, massive deficits. But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called the budget a wonderful blueprint that's in line with American values. Candy Crowley reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is not a book of numbers, this is a sea change.
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: This is a transformational budget. This is the first budget I have seen since the Reagan era, since Reagan's first budget that really made a fundamental statement. We are going in a different direction, folks.
CROWLEY: In essence, it is the use of the tax system to redistribute wealth in the economic version of the biggest loser, upper income seniors who will pay more for prescription drugs, farmers with sales over $500,000 a year who will lose their subsidies, and households making over $250,000 a year will get a tax increase. One person with a taxable income of 200,000 will pay $6,000 more.
Taxes for a family of four with a $500,000 income will increase by $11,300. The budget also limits the deductions wealthier taxpayers can take for interest on home mortgages and charitable contributions. Charity organizations think that makes them a loser.
KEN BERGER, CEO, CHARITY NAVIGATOR: Discouraging the wealthiest from giving in this way could be devastating for some charities. We've already gotten estimates that a couple hundred thousand charities may close their doors as it is because of the economy, then you add stuff like this and it becomes all the more frightening.
CROWLEY: On the winning side, middle and lower class taxpayers and the poor who will see the stimulus tax cuts made permanent, an extension of child tax credits for those too poor to pay taxes and higher benefits. The federal government will use the tax revenues to pay for huge increases in spending, on education, energy, and most of all, health care. This is not just a budget. This is a change in direction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This country is no longer taking this road, call it for want of a better term the right road. We're taking more of a left of center road. But it's a road that we have to take because the big problem is in front of us.
CROWLEY: It is the end of Reaganomics, and the beginning of Obamanomics (ph).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: Of course it's useful to remember that still this is very much a blueprint. The specific numbers will be up to Congress and we are already hearing Kitty, some complaints from Democrats about specific lines in this blueprint, in particular, the farm subsidies. There are a number of Democrats in farm states who will object to that -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: This will be quite a discussion in Congress. Thanks very much Candy Crowley.
(CROSSTALK)
PILGRIM: Thanks, Candy. Time now for tonight's poll -- now do you believe President Obama's budget, which is titled "A New Era of Responsibility" is responsible? Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com and we'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
A congressional panel is recommending a controversial plan to charge drivers for every mile they travel. Now President Obama rejected the idea last week. But the commission wants drivers to pay an average of two cents a mile to build and maintain new roads. The commission says the tax is necessary, because federal fuel taxes have not raised enough money to build new roads.
Some welcome news today for auto workers in Ohio. Now Ford says it will resume production at its Cleveland plant to build the company's new fuel-efficient engines. And the plant, which has been idle since 2007 will employ 250 people from Ford's three other plants at the site. And this is a pretty hair-brained idea to cut airline costs. Tonight the head of Ryan Air (ph) is suggesting pay toilets onboard. Michael O'Leary (ph) says today his European airline may start adding coin slots to the toilet doors. The low-budget airline already charges for food, drinks and check-in luggage. O'Leary's (ph) staff admits that they're really not sure if they're notoriously imaginative boss is truly serious about this one.
We have outrage tonight in West Virginia after the governor received a hefty pay raise while freezing the salaries for state workers. Now, according to one of the state employees' unions, many of the state workers there make so little that they qualify for welfare. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Colleen Triska works more than 40 hours as a dietary cook at the state mental hospital in West Virginia. She earns just $19,000 a year before taxes. So little, that she and her children have to rely on food stamps and other welfare programs to make ends meet.
COLLEEN TRISKA, WV STATE WORKER: My youngest daughter, you know, who's in school, her shoes, she walked around with the soles of her shoes flopping. And she did that for like actually a month, maybe even more, because I did not have money to buy her a pair of shoes.
SYLVESTER: Colleen's story is not unique. The starting salary for a state worker is just above $16,000. That's below the poverty line for a family of three. But in 2006, the State Legislature approved a salary hike for the governor that took effect this year and raised his annual pay from $95,000 a year to $150,000. Other state executives received similar pay hikes.
But just as his paycheck was about to get bigger, the governor announced there would be no wage increases for teachers and many other state employees in 2009. Although he added that if there is any money left over at the end of the fiscal year, it will be shared with state personnel.
KAREN HARDIN, UE LOCAL 170: That sends a very negative message and it's you know the morale of the state workers here is very, very low.
SYLVESTER: The governor's office declined an interview request. But a spokesman noted that Governor Joe Manchin (ph) has given state workers higher percentage increases than any West Virginia governor since at least 1985, his spokesman adding quote, "today we are one of just a handful of states that are not facing crippling budget deficits because of responsible management of West Virginia taxpayer money." But state workers we talked to say the wage increases that they have received are barely noticeable in their paychecks, and they still struggle to feed their families.
SUE DAVIS, WV STATE WORKER: And it amounted to what I see is like $15 a month. JAY MISER, WV STATE WORKER: The governor has stated that we need to be more frugal with our shopping. You can't get any more frugal than shopping at -- at Goodwill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Now the UE Local 170 is pushing for collective bargaining rights to negotiate for better wages for state workers. The AFL-CIO also represents state workers in West Virginia and I spoke to the local president of that union and he gives the governor some credit, saying he has been gradually raising state workers' salaries, but he says they still have a ways to go. And keep in mind, Kitty, though the governor raised his pay raise this year, an increase of 58 percent while you have state workers who are receiving welfare -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Yeah, no that's an outrageous story. Also, Lisa, the statement that money left over at the end of the fiscal year will be shared. I mean how likely in this economy will that happen?
SYLVESTER: Well that's what -- I mean a lot of people say it's pretty doubtful, especially when they're giving the folks at the top essentially these nice hefty pay raises. You know how much realistically is that going to leave for the folks at the bottom of the economic scale in West Virginia.
PILGRIM: Exactly. Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester -- thanks, Lisa.
We have wildfires tonight raging in central Texas. They're fanned by steady winds. There are very dry conditions across the state. It's caused by a contained fire in Taylor County that flared up again today. Ash has been raining down on several towns. That's forcing evacuations. So far, more than 1,200 acres have been scorched. Several homes and businesses destroyed. No serious injuries, however, have been reported.
A Rhode Island golden retriever is being hailed as a hero tonight when a fire broke out in the Lasky home in Kingston (ph). Nia (ph) began barking to warn the owners. Now the fire quickly spread and the Lasky son says Nia's (ph) warning saved their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC LASKY, DOG OWNER: My dog was the first one to notice, and she warned everybody. So thanks for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now no one was hurt. The cause of the fire is under investigation.
And in Louisville, Kentucky, we have a remarkable reunion. Astro was a German shepherd and went missing in Port Lucie, Florida nine years ago. Well the dog is back with the family right now. The Geary family moved three times since Astro disappeared in 2000. And last month animal control officers in Tennessee picked up Astro after reports of a loose dog. The officers tracked down the Geary's because Astro had a microchip implant with the family's contact information. And after all that time, nine years, the dog immediately recognized his owner.
Coming up, Congressman Brad Sherman (ph) joins me to discuss the Obama administration's bank bailout and whether it's really a taxpayer rip-off.
Also outrage over the octuplet mom refusing help while possibly shopping for a reality show, we'll have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Growing outrage tonight over the so-called octomom, it's the mother of 14 children who has rejected charity help for her eight newborns. But, of course, she's still on welfare, and she could possibly be holding out for a reality show, plus Nadya Suleman has admitted that the multiple embryo implants were a mistake. Ines Ferre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Has octomom turned her back on an offer of help for her 14 children? The non-profit Angels in Waiting says it offered round-the-clock care for Nadya Suleman's eight newborns, plus her other six kids. The charity says Suleman seemed more interested in making money off a reality show than accepting their offer.
LINDA WEST-CONFORTI, ANGELS IN WAITING: Nadya asked if we would do a reality show. If I would offer the press conferences every two weeks on how the babies are doing. I told her a reality show is a definite no.
FERRE: Angels in Waiting's offer expired last night. Suleman's spokesperson said he hasn't heard from Angels in Waiting. As for the idea of a reality show he says, "I can't make any comment on that, nothing has been brought to my attention". This week, the single and unemployed mom went on "Dr. Phil" admitting it was wrong to have eight more kids when she already had six children.
NADYA SULEMAN, "OCTOMOM": In hindsight I don't know how -- what I was thinking. I know I loved my children. And I know I loved those embryos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you see now it was wrong?
SULEMAN: I do see. Maybe that choice was wrong, you know to add another one and I thought it would be one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you acknowledge that that choice was wrong?
SULEMAN: I do. FERRE: Suleman said she had six embryos transferred and two multiplied. Fertility expert Dr. Andrew Silverman says while he doesn't know the medical details of the case, he's never heard of so many embryos implanted at once.
DR. ANDREW SILVERMAN, FERTILITY SPECIALIST: My opinion as a fertility expert was pretty much stunned. I couldn't imagine myself ever transferring eight embryos.
FERRE: The California Medical Board is now investigating a possible violation of standard of care in this case.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FERRE: And the real question is how will octomom be able to care for these children? Suleman told Dr. Phil that she's afraid the hospital might not release her octuplets unless they -- that she can prove that she can take care of them. And one offer that she's turned down, $1 million to appear in an adult film.
PILGRIM: Ines, just a quick question. I mean has she indicated any way she's able to provide for these children?
FERRE: Well that's the $1 million question is how is she going to provide for them. And you know the care that this charity was offering was worth about $130,000 for the care, for all the people that would take care of the kids and the food, et cetera, everything that it would take for that.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Ines Ferre.
Well staff at the Santa Monica Pier Aquarium (ph) in California are keeping a close eye on one of their residents tonight. It's an octopus who pulled a tube from her tank, caused a huge flood, 200 gallons of sea water spilled into the aquarium all over the floors on Thursday damaging the new eco-friendly flooring. And workers have now secured the valve that the curious octopus loosened. By the way, the octopus is alive and well.
And we do have an update on the saucepan swinging 70-year-old tonight. Now we told you about Ellen Basinski (ph), she used her famous -- favorite Emeril Lagasse five-quart saucepan to successfully fight off four intruders. Well it turns out that Chef Emeril heard the story. He felt so bad that Ellen had to turn her saucepan in as evidence, so tonight he's sending her a new set of his cookware.
We have time now for some of your thoughts and Al in Tennessee wrote to us "Your piece on the grandmother with the skillet warding off those young thugs who broke into her home was great. I'll bet that Attorney General Holder will be adding skillets to his new and growing assault weapon ban list."
And Paul in California wrote, "Congratulations to the 70-year-old who protected herself with a frying pan. Since the government is determined to take away our Second Amendment rights, I'm going to stock up on frying pans." And Danny in Kansas wrote, "I think the grandmother who hit the intruders in her house with one of Emeril's saucepans gives a whole new meaning to the word 'BAM!"
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts loudobbs.com and also coming up, the National Rifle Association issues a call to arms to fight what it says is the Obama administration's threat to our Second Amendment rights.
Also, many Democrats are criticizing President Obama's plan to withdraw our troops from Iraq. Three top political analysts will join us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Well, it could be President Obama's first 3:00 a.m. phone call. There is rising speculation tonight that North Korea is on the brink of test firing a long-range ballistic missile that could reach the United States. The Pentagon and intelligence agencies are closely watching North Korea. There's also talk the U.S. could try to shoot down any North Korean missile if there is a test. Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. spy satellites are watching this North Korean missile launch site 24/7. The U.S. is gathering snippets of communication and radar readings, everything U.S. officials say is now pointing to a North Korean missile launch within days.
It's believed North Korea is planning to launch a Taepodong-2 missile. What the U.S. doesn't known is whether it whether the missile will carry a satellite meant to go into orbit or be fired as a long-range missile that would be a threat to the U.S.
There are renewed questions about whether the U.S. military's multibillion dollar system of radars and interceptor missiles in Alaska and California could shoot down an incoming North Korean threat. The Pentagon's former chief weapons tester is skeptic in chief.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite simply, the public statements made by Pentagon officials and contractors have often been at variance with the facts at hand.
STARR: Even Coyle's successor said it's not absolutely certain the U.S. could shoot down an incoming missile.
CHARLES MCQUEARY, DIR DOD TEST AND EVAL: If the North Koreans launched an attack against us this afternoon, we wouldn't say we need more test data before we decide whether we're going to launch against and try to intercept that. We'd do what -- we'd see how the system works and we'd find out.
STARR (on camera): So, if North Korea launches a missile, will the U.S. even bother to try and shoot it down? Well, U.S. intelligence officials say they will try to make an assessment within seconds of a launch about whether the missile could fly long enough to be a threat to the United States, or whether it will fall harmlessly into the ocean and be a dud.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, as we have been reporting tonight, President Obama announced today that most U.S. forces will be out of Iraq in 18 months. Let's put the president's plan to tonight's political panel. We are joined by CNN contributor, and Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman, syndicated columnist and Lehman College journalism professor, Miguel Perez, and from Washington, Ron Christie, who was an adviser to George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.
Gentlemen, thanks for joining me. You know, we have people like Democrats like Nancy -- Democrats, like Nancy Pelosi objecting to this.
Robert, what do you make of this debate?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think it's actually a very healthy, very important debate to have. I think it speaks to not just the strength of the Democratic leadership, but also the strength of our government. Many of my Republican friends -- and you know, even though I'm obviously a very active Democrat, we talk to each other, we have friends across the aisle -- many of my Republican friends told me that the Republican Congress failed because they became a shadow of the Bush administration.
And I think it's to Nancy Pelosi's credit for calling for and trying to advocate faster troop withdrawal. Senator Byrd, just this last week, saying raising the spectra that perhaps executive powers being abused and overused by the use of czars. So this debate means that Congress is a co-equal branch of government.
PILGRIM: You know, it is really an interesting debate because we have John McCain, who once really famously said on the campaign, that Obama would rather lose a war than lose a campaign, but he's supportive of the president's plan. Ron, can I get your thoughts on this?
RON CHRISTIE, FMR BUSH & CHENEY ADVISOR: Sure. Well, what Senator McCain had to say earlier today, Kitty, was that he was cautiously optimistic. And I think I'd like to echo his sentiment. The senator was very concerned that our men and women on the ground had completed their mission and they would be coming home after a job well done.
Senator McCain had a briefing with Admiral Mullen, who was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, as well as Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and they assured not only Senator McCain, but people on both sides of the political aisle in Washington and the Congress, that in fact we could draw down our troops responsibly to that 50,000 troop level in 2010.
But my only concern, and I'm sure Senator McCain and many others are looking at this, let's not just set a date certain for political expediency, let's set a date certain because we've done the job and our men and women can come home proud with a job well done.
PILGRIM: That makes perfect sense to me. Miguel, your thoughts on this?
PROF MIGUEL PEREZ, LEHMAN COLLEGE: A few months ago, Kitty, who would have tell us that John McCain was going to be happier with the announcement today than Democratic leadership. So, frankly, I never thought that what Obama was promising during the campaign was something that he was going to be able to accomplish in terms of pulling out in 16 months, now it's 18, 19 months.
And also, he's now saying that he's leaving up to 50,000 troops there. I mean, this is not a complete pullout by any means. He's leaving a third of our troops in Iraq.
PILGRIM: Thirty-five to 50, right?
PEREZ: Right, 35 to 50, a third of what is there. Now, we have 140,000 troop right there now. So, it's a third that he's leaving there. What kind of a pullout is that?
ZIMMERMAN: It's very dramatic and very significant pullout., Miguel, because...
PEREZ: But it's not what he promised.
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, absolutely it's what he promised. Now, maybe it's in 18 months, not 16 months. But the bottom line is, he's shifting the focus of our attention militarily to fighting the terrorists as opposed to engaging this war of choice...
PEREZ: And I actually agree with him, Robert. I actually agree with him. I never thought he was going to be able to do it in time and he's not doing it in time.
ZIMMERMAN: He's two months off. I give him credit for keeping his word.
PEREZ: I like the fact that -- I was hoping that he would take the 23-month alternative, we'd stay there a little longer and do it right.
CHRISTIE: Hey Robert, to echo your point here, I think what he's recognized, the president has recognized that he's no longer the campaigner in chief, now he's the commander in chief. And I think you're right, it's a significant drawdown, but the commander in chief is looking and consulting with the men and women who are serving him not only in the Pentagon, and in the armed forces, but with the secretary of defense to say, regardless of what I said on the campaign trail, we have to make sure our men and women in uniform are safe. PILGRIM: Gentlemen, I hate to change the topic, because we're so interested in this, but you know, we really should talk about the spending bill. The House passed a $410 billion spending bill.
We have Minority Leader John Boehner immediately pounced on that as having a lot of pork. Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: And I think the stimulus was the opening salvo. It was supposed to be focused on jobs, jobs, jobs, and it turned into nothing more than spending, spending and more spending.
(APPLAUSE)
But when you put this in the hands of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, it obviously became a gravy train for left-wing pork.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: This bill came two days after the White House had a forum on fiscal restraint, Robert. What do you make -- is this a mixed message?
ZIMMERMAN: No, I think the message is very clear. John Boehner and the Republican congressional leadership's hypocrisy would really put A-Rod to shame. I mean. the idea that after they left President Obama with over a trillion dollar debt, and a fiscal crisis comparable to the Great Depression in some respects, so in some respects not as severe, thank god, but certainly a serious one.
As we confront this, Barack Obama has begun very important initiatives to truly transform this government, both in terms of having an open budgeting process, a fiscally accountable one and also focusing on energy independence and health care.
PILGRIM: You know, I have to say, Taxpayers for Common Sense, a watchdog group that looks at fiscal responsibility, says Obama has said he would not tolerator earmarks. They went through it, they found 8.5 thousand earmarks, $8 billion. So, it's not, you know, a partisan thing when you have watchdog groups looking at this also. Ron, what are your thoughts on it?
CHRISTIE: Well, I think President Obama says one thing and does something entirely different. He promised that he was going to go though and make sure there are no earmarks in the stimulus bill. Well, we had billions of dollars of earmarks in the stimulus bill. In this particular package, the numbers somewhere between 8,000 and 9,000 earmarks.
And if you look at the spending bill, it's $410 billion. And the president wants to raise taxes by $636 billion over the next 10 years. The president claims he's fiscally responsible. Everything that we've seen out of him, almost every day you turn on the television, he's announced another billion dollar -- multibillion dollar program. His words don't match his deeds. He's a fiscal irresponsible person right now and the spending is out of hand.
PILGRIM: Miguel, two seconds. I'm sorry.
PEREZ: It's shameless, after spending all this time, all these politicians on both sides, because the Republicans also earmarks -- on both sides after spending all this time telling us that, you know, there was no -- in the stimulus package there was no earmarks, now all of a sudden they turn around and they show us all these earmarks. It's disrespectful of our intelligence.
PILGRIM: Gentlemen, I know we want to continue this. I know Robert's just bursting to say something else. So, we really do have to cut it off here. And I'm sorry, we will continue this discussion. Robert Zimmerman, Miguel Perez and Ron Christie, thank you.
And coming up, I'll speak with one congressman who thinks taxpayers are being absolutely ripped off in the latest CitiGroup bailout.
Also ahead, who would turn down a $45 million job offer in this economy? Well, ask Dodger star Manny Ramirez, when we come back.
And freedom under assault, the new battle over banning assault weapons. Stay with us.
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PILGRIM: Defenders of the Second Amendment right to bear arms, are preparing for another fight over assault weapons. This week, Attorney General Eric Holder suggested renewing the assault weapon ban. And now in his first public appearance since the attorney general raised that possibility, Wayne LaPierre of the National Rifle Association has issued a forceful call to arms. Bill Tucker is here with that -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well Kitty, you know, the NRA's LaPierre was not appearing exactly before a hostile audience, in fact it would be hard to find a more friendly audience than conservative forum, CPAC. LaPierre was quick to attacker Attorney General Holder's comments from Wednesday about needing to renew the ban on assault weapons for the good of Mexico.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WAYNE LAPIERRE, NATL RIFLE ASSN: The lie is that if we would just surrender more of our Second Amendment, Mexican drug cartels couldn't get the guns they get to terrorize their people and ours. I mean, give me a break.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: Now, LaPierre, underlined that the attorney general is not out of line within president's administration. He noted that Vice President Joe Biden as the NRA's lowest rating, an "F," as does the president's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, staunch supporter of gun control. And as we've reported several times on this program, the president, President Obama, has supported a ban on handguns in the past and is on record favoring strong gun control measures. LaPierre warned gun owners will not back down on this issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAPIERRE: Our founding fathers understood that the guys with the guns make the rules. They understood that if the only guys with the guns are the bad guys, we're screwed. Our founding fathers knew that. And it's no different today. That's why we own guns. We're not giving them up. The Constitution says it. We believe it. And that settles it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: As you can see, this is a passionate debate. And Kitty, this is not one that's about to go away quietly into the night.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much, Bill Tucker. Thanks Bill.
The Obama administration's latest plan to bail out CitiGroup would give the government more than one-third of the company's common stock.
Well, joining us is Congressman Brad Sherman from the Financial Services Committee.
And thank you very much for being with us. You know, today we had sort of a triple whammy. We had the nation's GDP fell an annual rate of 6.2 percent, that's the sharpest in 26 years. We had the CitiGroup news, that the government's taking a huge chunk, 36 percent of the troubled bank. And also the Dow fell -- sort of a triple whammy. What do you make of this situation in the markets and the financial -- the banks particularly, sir?
REP BRAD SHERMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think we're still in for some tough times. We've got to get the economy rolling And at the same time, when we transfer taxpayer money to any private entity, we've got to make sure that we're getting good value, and that we're not subsidizing Wall Street or anyone else.
What we've seen is the initial investments made by Secretary Paulson, where he invested $252 billion in Wall Street, we ended up with securities that were worth $78 billion less than what we paid for them. And now that's being illustrated by the latest add-on transaction.
PILGRIM: Yeah, but you know, I mean, should the government continue to bail out banks? Some say it's the survival of the fattest. They're too big to fail, we continue to pour money into them. What are your thoughts on this?
SHERMAN: Well, my thoughts are that some of them are -- may be very big, but fail is not the same thing as a bankruptcy reorganization. These banks can go into bankruptcy, shed their shareholders, shed, or reduce the amount they owe to their bond holders and come back out much stronger institutions, perhaps at that point with a federal injection of capital.
What I don't want to see is the federal government, the taxpayer, turning to all the bondholders of these institutions and saying, you never had a U.S. insurance for your bond, but we're going to provide it for you anyway. The only people that deserve federal insurance with the banks are the FDIC insured deposits. And that's not the multibillion dollar bondholders, that's limited to $250,000 per depositor.
PILGRIM: Congressman Sherman, I understand you're a CPA, and it definitely shows in this discussion. You know, if CitiGroup fails the government's stress test for future aid, what really should happen to it, in your opinion?
SHERMAN: Well, I think that if a bank fails the stress test, there ought to be a reduction in what's going to be paid to the bondholders, so as to make the institution more viable.
It's -- we shouldn't be saying, well, this bank doesn't have enough capital to pay the bondholders, so we have to make sure the bondholders get paid in full so we have to give them taxpayer money. Capitalism is a system in which you share risks and rewards, and those who have FDIC insured deposits, they paid for their federal insurance. They deserve their federal insurance. They're the only ones who should have federal insurance.
PILGRIM: OK, thank you very much, Representative Brad Sherman. Thank you very much for your insight into this.
Coming up, a $45 million offer, and this guy says no? In this economy?
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PILGRIM: With times as tough as they are, you might wonder why anyone would turn down a $45 million job offer. But that's what baseball star Manny Ramirez did this week. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Manny Ramirez was traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers nearly two-thirds of the way through last season, after a bitter contract dispute with the Boston Red Sox.
MANNY RAMIREZ, FREE AGENT: The only think I know, that I going to play the game hard and give all I can, you know, to help the team win.
WIAN: That he did, leading a mediocre squad to a division title, and the Dodger's first trip to the national league championships series in 20 years.
After an off-season marked by a devastating economic slowdown, Ramirez and his uber agent, Scott Boras, now appear to be doing their best Jerry McGuire impersonation. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need to feel you, Jerry. Show me the money! Jerry, you better yell. Show me the money!
WIAN: The Dodgers have offered Ramirez $25 million to play baseball in 2009, and another $20 million if he chooses to play for them the following year. It's their fourth offer to the left-fielder who's considered the best right-handed hitter in the game and one of the best ever.
The recession and lingering questions about Manny's behavior have dried up the market for his services. His rejection of the Dodgers offer prompted "Los Angeles Times" columnist, Bill Plaschke to write, "The Dodgers made Manny Ramirez a no-lose proposition. By rejecting it Thursday, Ramirez has officially lost it. He's lost his dignity. He's lost his perspective. He's lost his marbles."
With spring training already underway, most baseball experts expect Ramirez to sign eventually.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Ramirez's agent issued a statement saying he's willing to accept a $45 million deal, but only if it doesn't include deferred money. The Dodgers last offer reportedly would have paid Ramirez $10 million during each of the first two years, then 25 million during the three years after the contract expired -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Unbelievable. Thanks very much, Casey Wian.
Coming up at the top of the hour, NO BIAS, NO BULL, Wolf Blitzer in for Campbell Brown -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Kitty.
President Obama sets an exit date for most U.S. troops in Iraq, but now what? We're going to talking about the drawdown tonight and we'll also break down the president's defense spending priorities in the year to come. Could force a dramatic break from the Pentagon's free spending ways.
We're also taking your questions tonight on the 2010 budget, more than $3.5 trillion. How are we going to pay for everything the president wants? Answers from our experts, all coming up at the top of the hour -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks Wolf.
Still ahead, "Heroes."
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PILGRIM: And now "Heroes," Sergeant First Class Michael Seagraves has honorably served in the Army for two decades and this week he deploys to Afghanistan. Philippa Holland has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PHILIPPA HOLLAND, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sergeant First Class Michael Seagraves saw a lot of enemy action escorting Army convoys in Iraq in 2004. Combat duty began with his very first assignment, protecting a 30 truck convoy of supplies traveling from Kuwait.
SGT 1ST CLASS MICHAEL SEAGRAVES, U.S. ARMY: I noticed there was a lot of black smoke in front of us, things that were burning, and we started receiving small arms fire and RPG fire and improvised explosives that also began going off. I realize that we were entering into an ambush. We fought our way through the ambush, returning fire, but at the same time, I had lost communications with my rear security element.
HOLLAND: He feared they had been hurt or killed.
SEAGRAVES: I knew I had to get back to them to check on their status, so I started making my way to the rear of the security formation that we had formed on the roadway while under fire. I managed to get back there by the grace of God.
HOLLAND: After making sure that they were safe, Sergeant Seagraves called in air support. All the soldiers survived. Nine insurgents were killed.
For his courageous and honorable actions, the Army awarded Seagraves the Bronze Star with Valor in January.
Now he's off to Afghanistan, as one of 17,000 additional troops recently ordered by President Obama. His team will make sure the incoming troops have everything they need from equipment to ammunition to travel plans, to accomplish their critical mission. Reserve units aren't usually charged with this task.
SEAGRAVES: The Army has enough trust and confidence with us to go in there as a command and oversee logistics for the entire theater of Afghanistan, that in and of itself, is making history.
HOLLAND: A 20-year Army veteran, Seagraves says he has plenty of reasons to serve.
SEAGRAVES: Everything motivates me to fight for this country: My family, the fact that, you know, you can vote for who you want to vote for in this country, without any reprisals. It's an awesome country. I have been around to a lot of different places in the world and I can tell you that there's no place like the United States of America and I'll defend it any day.
Philippa Holland, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Sergeant Seagraves plans to retire from the Army after this deployment and we wish him a safe return.
Here are our poll results: 73 percent of you do not believe President Obama's budget, which is titled "A New Era of Responsibility" is responsible.
Thanks for being with us, tonight. For all of us here, goodnight from New York. Wolf Blitzer in for Campbell Brown, starts right now -- Wolf.
