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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Shooting Rampage in New York; President Obama in Europe; Border Drug Wars
Aired April 03, 2009 - ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, Wolf, a murder rampage in upstate New York, 14 people are killed. We'll have complete coverage.
Also a hot selling new car from an American auto company, but foreign workers not Americans are benefiting.
And the crisis over toxic drywall from Communist China. We'll talk to an American family at the center of this crisis.
We'll also tell you about the latest unemployment report and what may be a glimmer of hope in our economy.
We begin in Binghamton, New York, where a gunman today went on a murderous shooting rampage and police say a total of 14 people were killed. Now, they believe one of those 14 is the gunman. They're not able to confirm that tonight, however.
The shooting took place at an immigrant center in the city of Binghamton. That's about 140 miles northwest of New York City.
And Susan Candiotti is on the scene tonight. Susan, tell us what happened.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this tragedy has simply rocked this small town of Binghamton, New York. As you indicated, 14 people dead, including possibly the suspected shooter, himself who took his own life.
It started about mid morning when this suspected shooter entered this immigration center social service agency and started shooting. We have a picture of a car that he apparently parked according to authorities, parked behind the building and he entered the front of the building and opened fire. He also took at least 20 people hostage.
About an hour or two after the shooting began, about ten of the hostages were released and in about another hour or so, another ten came out. It was after that that we eventually received word that the suspected shooter had taken his own life.
And at this hour, I have learned from a law enforcement source that a search warrant has been executed at the suspected shooter's home in Johnson City, which is not far from Binghamton and so far I am told by the source, quote, "We have not found anything."
I can tell you, however, that two weapons were seized from the shooting scene identified by a federal law enforcement source as a .9 millimeter and a .45 millimeter handgun. Both had a permit issued by New York State.
Here's how the police chief summed things up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF JOSEPH ZIKUSKI, BINGHAMTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Among the dead, there's a male victim that has a satchel around his neck with guns and there was ammunition in there. Our original information that the shooter was using handguns and we did recover two handguns at the scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: So again, Kitty, we're still wondering what is the motive. We're trying to learn more about this man and in the meantime, this town is trying to recover. There is a vigil scheduled at a local church tonight.
Back to you.
PILGRIM: Susan, quick question. This incident extended over a period of three or four hours. Was there an explanation on to why it took so long to resolve this incident?
CANDIOTTI: No, we still don't have further details on all that but, hopefully as the day goes on and the evening goes on, we'll be able to learn more about what took authorities -- they have a S.W.A.T. team surrounding the building, of course. They had FBI, hostage negotiators. We don't know at this time whether any contact had been made with anyone inside the building. So those details are still withheld.
PILGRIM: What did police learn from the initial 911 call? I understand that was the basis of most of their information.
CANDIOTTI: My understanding according to authorities is that that phone call has come from someone who was directly inside the building who had heard the shooting and alerted them that there was something going on inside, shooting was going on.
We also interviewed a woman who was not one of the hostages, but was hiding elsewhere in the building inside a closet. And she also told our CNN producer that she heard random gun fire, but she did not come out, of course, naturally, to find out what else was going on.
PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much, Susan Candiotti.
Susan Candiotti reporting from Binghamton, New York.
Now, President Obama who's in Europe tonight called the Binghamton shooting rampage senseless. The president saying, quote, "Michelle and I were shocked and deeply saddened to learn about this act of senseless violence in Binghamton. Our thoughts and our prayers go out to the victims and their families and the people of Binghamton." Now the president saying, "My administration is actively monitoring the situation and the vice president is in touch with Governor Paterson and local officials to track developments."
Today's shooting is one of four this year. Five days ago a gunman shot and killed eight people at Pinelake Health and Rehab Center in Carthage, North Carolina. He was then killed by a police officer.
And that same day, March 29th in Santa Clara, California, a man shot and killed his two children and three other relatives and then himself.
March 10th, a man went on a shooting rampage in Samson, Alabama, killing 10 people and then himself.
And on March 8th, a man opened fire in a crowded church in Maryville, Illinois and he killed the pastor who deflected one of the bullets with his bible.
We will have continuing coverage of this massacre in Binghamton throughout the evening right here on CNN.
Let's turn overseas. President Obama today told Europe to do more to help fight radical Islamist terrorists in Afghanistan. The president, visiting France and Germany said Europe should not expect the United States to shoulder that burden alone. But tonight it appears only Great Britain is likely to send more combat troops to Afghanistan.
Ed Henry reports from the French city of Strasbourg.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): President Obama's European tour is starting to look like the campaign, energized crowds in France and Germany. "Yes, we can" signs, even a town hall meeting with local students, the kind that gave him the edge in the presidential race.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There've been times where America's shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive, but in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. America is changing, but it cannot be America alone that changes.
HENRY: The change message is getting refashioned for NATO as he tries to sell allies on sharing responsibility for Afghanistan.
OBAMA: France recognizes that having Al Qaeda operate safe havens that can be used to launch attacks is a threat not just to the United States but to Europe.
HENRY: While President Nicolas Sarkozy will not put more troops on the ground, he's willing to train Afghan police and provide development money.
(On camera) I wonder what you say to the president's message about bringing troops forward, maybe military training, helping in Afghanistan?
NICOLAS SARKOZY, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): We totally endorse and support America's new strategy in Afghanistan.
HENRY (voice over): Eager support from someone who just days ago was at odds with Mr. Obama over the financial crisis.
SARKOZY: It feels really good to be able to work with an American president who wants to change the world.
HENRY: It seems they've quickly patched up differences from the G-20 Summit where Mr. Obama didn't get all he wanted but was building relationships for the future.
(On camera) And now Mr. Obama's close ally from the G-20 Summit, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown says he's ready to send more troops to Afghanistan, a sign this strategy may be starting to pay off.
Ed Henry, CNN, Strasbourg, France.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: President Obama tonight is in the German city of Baden-Baden for a NATO summit meeting tomorrow. The president was given full military honors by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, but no additional German soldiers will be going to Afghanistan. And the German troops who are in Afghanistan do not participate in combat operations against insurgents and terrorists.
President Obama today also demanded that North Korea stop its preparations to test a missile that could reach Alaska or Hawaii. The president saying any missile launch would be, quote, "provocative." But tonight, it appears North Korea has no intention of complying with the president's demands.
Chris Lawrence in our Washington studio has the very latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Right now the mood in the Pentagon is calm, and here's why. They believe it is a satellite that is about to be launched.
We have new technology that combines multiple satellite images into one 3-D model. Here you can take a look in North Korea, that's the control center where the North Koreans will watch the launch. And as we take you in a little bit closer, there is the launch pad.
The key here is what's on top. This is the same kind of missile the North Korea launched three years ago that failed about 40 seconds after takeoff. They believe now that it is a satellite on top.
This would the first stage of the missile that would drop into the ocean, the satellite would launch into space. The second stage would also fall into the ocean in the Pacific. Now let's take a look. Here we are. That's where we were just on the launch pad. The North Koreans expect the first stage to fall right here into the Sea of Japan. The U.S. has no plans to shoot down this satellite, neither does Japan, except if for some reason the debris starts to fall over Japan, they would then fire on that debris.
Now let's shrink it down and show you what happens next. As we get a little closer, you can see that this is where the last stage would fall. It's in the Pacific Ocean, it's west of Hawaii.
The concern here, by the U.S. side is not so much what happens with this particular launch, but the technology that the North Koreans could gain if it is successful. Because this is the type of rocket that some analysts believe on the far side could travel about 4,000 miles. That would put it above Alaska, it would skirt the edge of Hawaii, it obviously would still about 1,000 miles short of Seattle and the West Coast of the United States.
But the real worry here is not so much what happens with this launch, but if it is successful -- and that's a big if -- but if it is, the North Koreans will have learned about guidance, reliable fuel, deploying a payload, all the things that could lead them down the road to attaching a nuclear warhead to this same type of missile and that's technology that could be used or sold to other interests.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Chris Lawrence reporting there.
Coming up, an incredible story of bungling and mismanagement in one state's program to help hundreds of thousands of unemployed people.
And new evidence that Mexican drug cartels are bringing their violence and drug trafficking deep into this country. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: New evidence tonight of just how far Mexico's drug cartels have spread into this country. The Justice Department says the violent cartels now operate in more than 230 cities across this country. And federal officials point to Atlanta as a key hub for the drug cartel's distribution network.
Brooke Baldwin reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Drugs, weapons and cold, hard cash is a lethal combination fueling the Mexican drug cartels. And according to the Drug Enforcement Administration, now a new city has emerged as the staging ground for this deadly trade.
RODNEY BENSON, DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION: Metro Atlanta is a hub for business in the southeast. It's also a hub of operations for Mexican organized crime. BALDWIN: Atlanta, prime real estate for drug distribution according to the DEA's top Atlanta agent, Rodney Benson. He agreed to take CNN on a special aerial tour to show how these deals go down, starting with the southern city's web of freeway.
BENSON: You can go east, west, north, south from metro Atlanta, moving shipments and drugs from the southwest border all the way up the Eastern Seaboard.
BALDWIN: before that can happen, the driver must wait here, a truck stop just like this one, often in broad daylight.
BENSON: A truck driver arrives into a place like this will then wait. It could be as soon as an hour; it could be two or three days. Then they'll receive instructions.
BALDWIN: Next the driver heads to a warehouse, Benson says there is plenty to pick from in Atlanta. There the drugs are parceled out and sent to dealers throughout the U.S.
But the drivers aren't done. They use the same truck to smuggle money and guns back into Mexico.
In 2008, Atlanta led the nation with $70 million in confiscated cash according to the DEA. And last September federal agents along with local law enforcement rounded up 34 members of Mexico's Gulf Cartel in the Atlanta area alone. Part of a nationwide effort called Project Reckoning.
(On camera) If you think drug cartels are keeping their high dollar drug operations in the gritty inner city, think again. The DEA says they prefer the suburbs. They move into quiet middle class neighborhoods just like this one, where they set up shop, stockpiling drugs and cash before distributing them.
(Voice over) Last July a group of men with cartel connections lured a Rhode Island drug dealer to this Gwinnett county home. They chained him, beat him and held him hostage, demanding he pay $300,000 they say he owed. The DEA raided the home before it was too late.
BENSON: There's no doubt in my mind if we didn't act when we did, he would have been dead.
BALDWIN: Three men got caught and pleaded guilty, but the rest escaped. Benson says the explosive growth of Hispanic immigrants in metro Atlanta is yet another reason why Mexican cartels come here, allowing them to blend in and disappear, enabling this deadly drug trade to rage on, spreading roots in this southern city.
Brook Baldwin, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Clear evidence of unemployment benefit blunders in Indiana. A report finds high rates of error at the state unemployment agency. Indiana's unemployment benefits are tapped out. The state is forced to borrow hundreds of millions of dollars from the federal government. And ironically, the man being blamed in part for these errors was once in charge of the country's finances.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (voice over): Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels went to Elkhart, Indiana, a city with an 18 percent unemployment rate, nearly double the statewide average which is already at a 25-year high.
GOV. MITCH DANIELS (R), INDIANA: There are communities in Indiana that have been struggling economically now for decades. Less than a year ago, this area was at full employment.
PILGRIM: Unemployment is a huge problem for Governor Daniels who was the former head of the Office of Management and Budget under George W. Bush. The man who managed the budget for the whole country, now under pressure to fix Indiana's mismanaged unemployment funds.
An internal report by the U.S. Labor Department found in 2007 Indiana's Workplace Development Office was responsible for 11.2 percent of mistakes in unemployment benefits. That is five times the national average.
Indiana has an unemployment rate of 9.4 percent. Its unemployment funds are completely tapped out. The state says it has had to borrow $653 million from the federal government.
Indiana's unemployment solvency problems are partly because it pays such high sums to laid-off workers. Unemployed workers get 54 percent of their former average wage, the third highest rate in the country. And that is far more than the state takes in, in employer payroll taxes.
Another problem, the state admits it did not cross-check workers in a state or national database to make sure they were not working or already receiving benefits.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now the governor's office told us the state's unemployment short fall has been building for eight years. The governor has formed a working group to aggressively come up with a solution to the insolvency problem and that could include cutting unemployment benefits in Indiana.
The Supreme Court in Iowa today legalized gay marriage; the court deciding unanimously that a ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional. Hours after the ruling, the county attorney filed an appeal putting the ruling on hold for a legal battle. And today's ruling makes Iowa the third state in the nation to approve gay marriage after Massachusetts and Connecticut.
And in Vermont today the House approved a bill to legalize gay marriage and that bill now goes to the State Senate but Vermont's Republican Governor Jim Douglas has promised to veto that bill. Straight ahead, Congressman Don Manzullo will join me to talk about his bold plan to stimulate the automobile industry by providing cash for cars.
Also how foreign trade deals that we have signed could impact our ability to fix the economy. We'll have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: There are new concerns tonight over global trade deals and American sovereignty. A World Trade Organization agreement signed a decade ago may actually block U.S. regulators from preventing high risk behavior in financial institutions.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Twenty of the world's leaders gathered for a photo at the start of the G-20 meeting. Topping the agenda, the global economic meltdown and re-regulating the financial industry. Billions have been spent bailing out banks and AIG and many like former Republican House Speaker, Newt Gingrich, are asking how can we avoid letting business get too big to fail.
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER REPUBLICAN HOUSE SPEAKER: If you are too big to fail, you're too big to manage.
SYLVESTER: But restricting a firm's size and putting the breaks on ultra-risky exotic financial instruments, two possible solutions to the crisis may be problematic because of an international trade agreement. A WTO financial services agreement was signed in 1997 by 105 countries including the United States.
That was back when Wall Street was taking off and Jim Roberts with the conservative Heritage Foundation insists it worked.
JIM ROBERTS, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: It's worked very well. It's fueled a lot of the tremendous growth and prosperity we've seen in the world in the last ten years.
SYLVESTER: But things have changed and the treaty that promoted open markets is still in place. Among other things, it says all signatories must allow private companies to supply any new financial services such as derivatives and it prohibits limits on the size of firms.
LORI WALLACH, PUBLIC CITIZEN: You have all these countries saying the most important thing that they need to do is re-regulate financial services. Yet the pink elephant in the room is they're all signatories to a WTO agreement that forbids them to re-regulate financial services.
SYLVESTER (on camera): The watchdog group Public Citizen says it's time to revisit the WTO agreement and other trade deals that can impact so much more than just tariffs and quotas. Health care, immigration, "Buy American" provisions and as we are finding out financial services are all affected by international trade agreements.
Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The number of unemployed Americans jumped last month. Employers eliminated 663,000 jobs in March. The nation's unemployment rate rose to 8.5 percent. There are now more than 13 million people unemployed in this country.
The March figures show some improvement though over January when 741,000 people lost their jobs. Job losses last month were very widespread; we had construction, manufacturing, retail, even the government lost jobs.
Well, more multimillion dollar bonus payments tonight by companies being bailed out by the government. Mortgage companies, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac announced $210 million in retention bonuses and this is beyond the $5 million announcement last month for Fannie Mae's top four executives.
The money will be paid out to 7,600 employees over the next 18 months. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- they defend the bonuses -- saying they are necessary to keep skilled employees. Critics are outraged saying taxpayer money is being used to reward failure. Now you will remember, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae lost a combined $108 billion in 2008.
And that brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Are you outraged that taxpayer money is being used to pay bonuses to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac employees? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com and we will bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
Coming up, a bold new plan to save our auto industry and a Congressman who wants to give you cash to buy cars, he'll join me.
Also a new, hot selling American hybrid, it's anything but American. We'll have a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: In a moment, we'll speak to a Congressman who wants to give you cash to buy a car.
But first, President Obama is telling U.S. automakers that they must manufacture and sell more fuel-efficient cars for the auto industry to survive. Ford has its hopes pinned on the new Fusion hybrid. Many of the auto workers who would benefit from this new vehicle are in Japan and Mexico, not in the United States.
Drew Griffin reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: It's an American car Gary Roger can't keep on his dealership's lot. GARY ROGER, GOLF MILL FORD: I can't get enough of them. Everything we have incoming is already spoken for in some way or form.
GRIFFIN: The Ford Fusion hybrid, just out, has things you may find hard to believe in an American car, an in-city mileage rating above 40 miles a gallon and a waiting list of Americans who want to buy.
ROGER: Send in a vehicle for two seconds, you can see the technology that's here compared to everything else. And there's a distinctive difference to when you can feel it between the gas and the auto.
GRIFFIN: So here's the catch. This hot selling American hybrid isn't really American at all.
(On camera) I think so many people want an American car company to succeed, I look at that sticker and it's like, God dang it. The engine is built in Mexico, the transmission from Japan -- it's right there on the window sticker. Ford even had those parts all assembled in Hermosillo, Mexico.
ROGER: Would I love to support 100 percent American products? Of course, but what they're looking for is the best technology at the best price. They really are. And this is the best technology at the best price right now.
GRIFFIN: That kind of as a matter of fact straight talk from a car dealer may come as a bit of surprise, especially if your car industry news has been coming from politicians.
GOV JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), MICHIGAN: This sector is the sector that is going to create jobs for Michigan.
GRIFFIN: Ford says the Fusion is 100 percent designed and engineered in the U.S., but the global economy builds globally, a spokesperson said. The Fusion hybrid is being built where Ford was already building the standard fusion, in Mexico, using the local Mexican suppliers, many of which, Ford officials say are subsidiaries of U.S. parts companies.
And Ford does make a hybrid in the U.S., its Ford Escape SUV hybrid, that's made in Kansas. Still, Gary Rogers says the new global reality is that cars of the future may not be made where the Big Three built their cars of the past. This Fusion, fully loaded and Mexican made, is priced right around 31,000, build this same car in the U.S. with U.S. Parts and labor, it would simply cost too much.
ROGER: If it was made her in Niles, Illinois, you know, it's $50,000, would we sell it? We'd try to, but would the American people want that.
GRIFFIN: That may not be good news for Detroit auto workers, according to Roger, but out here where the Fusions are selling faster than he can get them, America's car of the future is already here, even if it's made in Mexico.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Niles, Illinois. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: We are joined by Congressman Don Manzullo who wants to help stimulate the automobile industry and he wants to give Americans a $5,000 voucher towards the purchase of a new car. Congressman Manzullo joins me now.
Thank you sir for joining us.
REP DON MANZULLO (R), ILLINOIS: Good to be here.
PILGRIM: You know, you introduced a bill to give Americans $5,000, a voucher to buy a new vehicle. That sounds -- I'm sure everyone out there thinks that's a great idea. How would it work?
MANZULLO: First of all, we are never going to get out of this recession unless we kick start manufacturing and the best way to kick start manufacturing is to get people, get the consumer start to buying the biggest consumer product, which is automobile.
If you go to a dealer, there's a $5,000 point of purchase voucher. For example you could buy a Jeep Patriot, made in the congressional district I represent, instead of paying $20,000 for it, you pay $15,000 for it, you can buy it for less than $300 a month for five years.
What that does, Kitty, that restarts the supply chain. It gets people back to work again, instead of getting unemployment compensation, they start paying taxes. It restocks the state and local government tax coffers with sales tax. This is how America can move back out of the recession into production by restarting the automobile industry and there are enough people still working in this country, and there's enough demand for new cars that we could do this and this is the only way it's going to work.
PILGRIM: You know, I'm sure you just heard our report that we had an advance of you that talked about how many of these cars come from other countries, what have you to say to that.
MANZULLO: Well, it's unfortunate, I'm sort of glad Ford didn't take any TARP money, otherwise they would have to explain that particular ad.
However, there are enough cars that are made in this country, under the Big Three label and under foreign labels that would put as many as 13 million Americans back to work again, that could restore a trillion dollars of the economy, we went from selling 16 million cars to nine million dl cars to eight million cars projected this year. If we can get up to 15 million cars, that will inject a trillion dollars into the economy.
That will restart manufacturing, put people back to work again. That's exactly what it's going to take to pull us out of the recession, otherwise we're just pouring water in from the top, which doesn't do any good, we have to start the fire at the bottom, we have to ignite the purchasing process and this is the best way to it. PILGRIM: You know, there's been a great debate over government's role in jump-starting the auto industry and one very controversial move by President Obama to ask the GM CEO, Rick Wagner to accept down. What's your opinion of that?
MANZULLO: Well, that's what happens when you have this bailout money. Under my bill, the money doesn't go to the companies, it goes to the consumer and the consumer uses that at the point of purchase in order to kick start the automobile industry.
I mean, in the Rayburn office building, where I have my office, there are three time zone in two stories. And, you know, if the House of Representatives can't coordinate the clocks in one office building in Washington, D.C., how is Washington going to run General Motors?
PILGRIM: Yeah, no, I mean, it seems very clear to us that the -- a certain line was crossed.
You know, last week you grilled Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner on how to seize businesses that could harm the economy if they failed. You called that absolutely radical. Tell us a little bit more about why you think we're off the track here in terms of government participation in business?
MANZULLO: Well, he did not draw the distinction between financial companies that received TARP funding and those that don't. He wants to have a one-size fits all pattern to control, for example, executive compensation, and what happened with the bill that passed the House yesterday, that could control compensation, down even to the teller, but what we saw happen just yesterday, in Europe at the G-20, was nothing less than even more radical, because now Secretary Geithner's is proposing, with the help of the administration, a worldwide international control over all financial interests, in fact over any corporation to the extent of even controlling the compensation of the employees. That's not only radical, Kitty, that's frightening.
PILGRIM: Yeah, it certainly is. You know, just one quick question, and I put you on the spot a little bit with it, but don't you think that people inside of the beltway should drive Big Three cars? Now, we don't see that, do we?
MANZULLO: I have three Dodge Caravans and I just gave our Buick to our son in law school and the Mercury is something that I use in Rockford, Illinois when I'm doing congressional business there. All my cars were made in America.
PILGRIM: Hopefully everyone will follow your example. Thank you very much for joining us, Congressman Manzullo.
And coming up, a new threat from communist China, one that could be hiding deep within your home.
Also President Obama warns North Korea not to launch its ballistic missile. Now, three of the nation's top political thinkers will join me here, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Joining me now are three of the best political analysts in the country, Republican strategist and CNN contributor Ed Rollins. Ed served as White House political director under President Reagan. Democratic strategist, CNN contributor Robert Zimmerman, and syndicated columnist and CNN contribute for Miguel Perez. And Miguel is also professor of journalism at Lehman College in New York.
Gentlemen, always a pleasure. Let's start with the bad news and your interpretation of the jobless numbers. Unemployment at 8.5 percent, 13 million Americans out of work. Ed, what do you make of it?
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, the scary part of unemployment figures is it takes a long period even after a recession ends for those numbers to turn around. I was in the White House, I had just left the White House Reagan's campaign when they went the high mark in '83 and it's a very scary thing, because not only does 8.5 percent people unemployed, there's lot 10 percent to 15 percent worried about losing their jobs. It's real psychological damage when you see someone next to you who's lost their job or someone in your neighbor lost their job. So, all this stuff that's going on is not as important as getting our workers back to work.
PILGRIM: It's extraordinarily worrisome, and people underemployed, too.
Miguel, you know, there's really no way of also telling if this is the bottom or not.
MIGUEL PEREZ, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Not at all. But, you know, it's -- there are people predicting that the unemployment rate could go down as far as 10 percent. So, you know, it's still -- by the end of the year. It's not totally surprising that things have gotten as bad as they have because we've expected it. Now as Ed said, the last thing to recover in a recovery period is the jobless rate. So, you know, let's hope that other things are beginning to recover and that the jobless rate will follow.
PILGRIM: We have seen a lot of -- sorry to interrupt, but we've seen a lot of activity out of Washington, a lot of big picture activity. Do you think any of it will...
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, these pessimistic numbers, these dire numbers that we're seeing in terms of joblessness, now we also see one out of every 10 Americans is receiving food stamps. This is the third month in the last five months that we've set a record now for food stamp recipients. That plus expected continued job loss, that kind of -- those kinds of reports can be paralyzing.
We're beginning to see, and that's still not a -- you can't call it a definitive trend, but you're starting to see some progress made, we're seeing, in fact, construction, in fact, begin to emerge -- re-emerge, now, that could be seasonal, but we're seeing some growth in terms of construction and housing sales. The decline of auto sales has slowed a bit. So you're seeing some level -- you're seeing some progress. My see the stock market over 8,000. We have a long way to go, I'm not saying that we're there, but clearly there are moments, we are seeing signs of potential improvement and I think that's important to keep our eye on. We're seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, and it not a train coming at us, I think it's some progress.
PILGRIM: It's important to look at the upside as well as the downside in these sorts of situations. Gentlemen, I would like to move on to international affairs because North Korea is very much on the radar, this week with their intended launch. And President Obama actually spoke quite forcefully, finally, sent a strong message to North Korea. Let's listen to it for a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Should North Koreans decide to take this action; we will work with all interested parties in the international community to take appropriate steps to let North Korea know that it can't threaten the safety and security of other countries with impunity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: You know, in advance of the statement, we have had a lot of conversation about talks and six-party talks and dialogue and this seems to be, to me, a bit of a departure - Robert.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think it's a bit of a departure from the past eight years and one of the great benefits of Barack Obama's great success -- and I say this not as a Democrat, but as an American -- from the G-20 talks, is that America is now re-established its credibility in the diplomatic community.
And I thought the most critical part of what President Obama said was the idea of working with other parties to bring North Korea back into the six party talks, as opposed to the kind of saber rattling rhetoric of go it alone that has not succeeded in the past.
PILGRIM: As our president is in Washington this evening, Miguel, your assessment of his G-20 performance and also the schedule that he faces in Europe and how he's doing.
PEREZ: Well, he did wonderful, I think he did a great job. I'm very impressed with his position when he spoke about al Qaeda, and he said, listen, just because I'm president, I told the Europeans just because I'm president of the United States, doesn't mean I'm going away. That was a very strong message and he needed to deliver.
When he spoke about the anti-American feelings in Europe and how we needed to deal with those things, I think he was very forceful and very strong in those statements and it was what we needed to hear from the president of the United States. You know, here's a liberal president going to Europe speaking in very strong terms.
PILGRIM: You know, he also showed a very human side and in fact when asked in the town hall of the situation what he basically if he had regrets about running for president. President Obama actually had a very candid sort of charming comment. I would like to listen to that, if we can.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: It used to be when I came to Europe, that I could just wander down to a cafe and sit and have some wine and watch people go by. Now, I'm in hotel rooms all the time. And I have security around me all the time. And so just, you know, losing that ability to just take a walk, you know, that is something that is frustrating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: You know, it's interesting, watch what you wish for, but also being this personal in this sort of setting...
ROLLINS: He's a great personality and obviously that showed throughout this performance and that's what it very much was. I think the critical thing here is that he has now negotiate -- he's got two major summits with China and the Russians. I don't think anyone should underestimate the Russians, we've sat down with them before and we don't know whether it's Putin or who's running the country, but when you start giving up nuclear weapons and you start basically being called "comrade" by a Russia doesn't necessarily mean that it's a whole new game, there. The Russians have showed a tendency to not play very well...
PILGRIM: That's right. You know, there was a great discussion about Medvedev and Obama and the relationship, there. I would like to just get to the Justice Department dropping all charges against the former Alaskan senator, Ted Stevens.
ROLLINS: Ted Stevens is a long-time friend of mine and I think a great injustice was done to him and I'm glad that Eric Holder -- I applaud what he has done in the sense of throwing -- or not attempting to prosecute this again. The absurdity now is talking about the senator who was elected, resigning and all the rest of it, I mean that's all frivolous, Stevens had an injustice done, he might have won re-election if it hadn't been for this, but we move on, that's all...
PILGRIM: Now, special election in this instance -- Robert.
ZIMMERMAN: It is an outrage what happened to Senator Stevens. He lost for all the wrong reasons. There's no question that what he face in the Department of Justice was an outrageous abuse of power and I applaud the attorney general for his investigation. But, equally outrageous is the Republican Party's hypocrisy, that they now want a special election after the votes were counted. Where were they in 2000 when they led the fight to block the votes from being counted in Florida and went to the U.S. Supreme Court to stop the votes from being counted and that's how we chose a president.
PILGRIM: Miguel, it's OK...
(LAUGHTER)
ZIMMERMAN: Sorry, Ed.
ROLLINS: You're still bitter. I'm telling you they lost 5-4.
ZIMMERMAN: The votes were counted there.
PILGRIM: Let's let Miguel have the last word.
PEREZ: I really don't this think there should be a special election in Alaska, that's the bottom line. It's ridiculous to suggest that now they should have another election.
PILGRIM: OK gentlemen. Ed Rollins, Robert Zimmerman, Miguel Perez, thank you.
And still ahead, "Heroes. And tonight we have the story of a Marine honored for his outstanding bravery in battle. Also up next, why your home could be making your sick. We'll have a report on the dangerous new threat to your health from communist China. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: A rising new threat tonight to our homes and our health, from communist china: Toxic drywall, it's imported from China. It was used to build homes in Florida, Louisiana and several other states and now, hundreds of homeowners say not only are their homes crumbling, but their health is suffering as well. John Zarrella has one Florida family's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The last time Alana and Joe Consolo saw their home like this was.
ALANA CONSOLO, HOMEOWNER: This is a linen closet...
ZARRELLA: Was four years ago, while it was being built.
A CONSOLO: This whole room here was one of the reasons why we fell in love with the home is that you can have the kitchen with the bar in here.
ZARRELLA: It was their dream house where they would raise a family, put down roots. That was before they discovered many of the interior walls had been built using Chinese drywall.
JOE CONSOLO, HOMEOWNER: Every sheet of drywall in this room was the Chinese drywall.
ZARRELLA: Hundreds of homes from Florida to Louisiana started finding their air conditioning system coils corroding along with copper wire in electric outlets.
J CONSOLO: You rub your hand over it and black comes off of it. A little bit
A CONSOLO: Black soot.
J CONSOLO: Yeah, like a soot. ZARRELLA: Some people complained it made them sick. Many homes even had a pungent rotten egg odor. A study by the Florida Department of Health found the order coming from "the emission of volatile sulfur compounds." According to the study, those gases led to the copper corrosion.
Already dozens of lawsuits have been filed against various Chinese manufacturers, Lennar, the builder of the Consolo home has sued the manufacturers and everyone in the supply chain, 24 defendants.
CHRIS MARLIN, LENNAR HOMES: And there's no question that the defective Chinese drywall is absolutely an inferior product.
ZARRELLA: Knauf (ph) a German company with affiliates in China, that's being sued, says its product is good.
KEN HALDIN, KNAUF PLASTERBOARD TIANJIN: There are just a lot of wallboard products that are in place, functioning fine. So, we believe we put out a very excellent product to the marketplace.
ZARRELLA: The Consolo's is one of at least 80 Lennar homes that were built using at least some defective Chinese drywall. Lennar is putting the homeowner up in a rentals while it rebuilds their homes, floor to ceiling.
A CONSOLO: I mean, there's other things, I mean, lead paint, asbestos, radon, but drywall?
ZARRELLA: The drywall was imported primarily in 2006. There wasn't enough U.S.-made product to satisfy the demand for rebuilding following the hurricane seasons that brought Charlie, Katrina and Rita.
The Gypsum Association says enough drywall to build at least 30,000 homes came from China between 2006 and 2007.
(on camera): Several state and federal agencies are checking into whether this defective Chinese drywall can cause health problems. But because drywall is something they've never looked into before, it's unclear how long it will be before there are answers.
John zarrella, CNN, Estero, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Coming up at the top of the hour, NO BIAS, NO BULL and Roland Martin is in for Campbell Brown -- Roland.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Hey, Kitty. Tonight, the very latest on that deadly shooting in Binghamton, New York. A story still unfolding and we're live at the scene. And we'll have all the details in just a few minutes.
Also ahead, some straight talk from President Barack Obama that has a lot of people talking. The president says there are times when America has shown arrogance toward Europe. Just what did he mean by that? We'll talk about that.
Plus an incredible report, Kitty, that the federal government, since the '70s has been engaged in providing drugs, crack and powder cocaine and morphine to drug users. We'll take a closer look at that at the top of the hour -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much, Roland Martin. Still ahead, "Heroes," it's our tribute to the men and women who serve this country and tonight a story of leadership and courage under enemy fire.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: And now, "Heroes," it's our tribute to the men and women who serve this country in uniform. And tonight we introduce you to Marine Sergeant Joseph Buompastore. Sergeant Buompastore led his squad in 13 firefights in Iraq and Afghanistan. Philippa Holland has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHILIPPA HOLLAND, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Marine Sergeant Joe Buompastore enjoys being out front, so when he was sent to fight the war in Iraq, that was where he wanted to be.
SGT JOSEPH BUOMPASTORE, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I was a point man for my squad, you know the lead element, the guy who looks at the ground, you know, makes sure everything's OK for his squad to walk past.
HOLLAND: He spent nine months in Ramadi, sporadically fighting insurgents. Less than a year later, he redeployed to Afghanistan.
BUOMPASTORE: We landed about 2:00 in the morning, you know, and within -- once the sun came up, they shot a rocket at one of our platoons.
HOLLAND: For two straight months, the fighting was intense. One night while leading his squad on patrol, Sergeant Buompastore came up to a dog.
BUOMPASTORE: As we looked closer at the dog, you know, we could see that it was chained up to the wall. You know, and we're like, all right, that's kind of weird, so, let's go check it out. As I walked towards it, two machine-guns opened up on me, on my squad and we were pretty much almost right in the open. I could see one of the insurgents, they stuck an RPG over a wall and shot it, it landed right next to me. It pretty much knocked me right out.
HOLLAND: Miraculously, Sergeant Buompastore was hit and he woke up fighting, firing off several grenades.
BUOMPASTORE: When I threw the second one, all right that machine-gun mortgaged (ph) silence.
HOLLAND: He continued to move between his teams and push forward under heavy enemy fire.
BUOMPASTORE: They're popping out of these little holes, you know, taking potshots at us.
HOLLAND: He used a rocket and went out in the open to take a shot at the enemy.
BUOMPASTORE: I fired that rocket and luckily it went right through that hole and nailed it. You know, silenced that position.
HOLLAND: Sergeant Buompastore and his squad fought off the enemy taking only one casualty. He was awarded the Bronze Star for Valor for his actions that night.
BUOMPSTORE: The best feeling in the world, knowing that I did my job and did it effectively.
HOLLAND: Philippa Holland, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, after two back-to-back deployments, Sergeant Buompastore is now enjoying time with his family. He's preparing to teach at the infantry school.
We have tonight's poll results -- 98 percent of you are outraged with taxpayer money is being used to pay bonuses to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac employees.
We do have time for some your thoughts, so let's read Dave in Iowa, "The president is elected to represent the people, but I think he's supposed to represent the American people."
And we heard from Jack in Texas, "Hi, Lou, we have to support Sheriff Joe, at all costs, he seems to be the only one in law enforcement that understands that all the laws are supposed to be enforced."
And please join Lou on the radio, Monday through Friday on the LOU DOBBS SHOW, 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. each afternoon on WOR-710 Radio in New York or go to loudobbsradio.com to find local listings for the LOU DOBBS SHOW on the radio.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please be with us on Monday. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Goodnight from New York, NO BIAS, NO BULL starts right now.
