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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Korean Menace; Sotomayor and Abortion; California Budget Crisis
Aired May 28, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf. Good evening, everybody.
U.S. troops in South Korea go on high-alert. South Korea prepares to defend its borders. North Korea is refusing to back down in the escalating military and diplomatic crisis.
Also rising questions about the position of abortion of Supreme Court nominee Sotomayor -- pro-abortion, anti-abortion groups are united in demanding Sotomayor give an opinion.
And the battle over California's voter approved ban on same-sex marriage -- we'll have our own showdown in our "Face-Off" tonight.
And the rising threat to this country from Mexico's violent drug war. The Obama administration's border czar will join us tonight.
We begin with breaking news on North Korea. In the last few minutes, the Obama administration said it is dispatching a high-level delegation to Asia to discuss this crisis. Earlier U.S. and South Korean military commanders raised their alert status to the highest level in nearly three years.
This means that U.S. and South Korea will step up surveillance of North Korea. Pyongyang this week threatened to attack U.S. and South Korean warships. North Korea also conducted a nuclear weapons test and test-fired missiles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (voice-over): Today, U.S. and South Korean joint forces raised their surveillance watch-con alert to the second highest level. According to the South Korean Defense Department, the combat alert level known as Defcon remains at stage four.
PETER BROOKES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: In light of what has happened in the last couple days and the rhetoric on the part of the North Koreans, the American and South Korean forces have decided to increase the readiness of their forces in case there is an additional conventional military provocation by North Korea.
PILGRIM: The last time the watch-con alert was this high was after North Korea's first nuclear test in 2006. After a nuclear weapons test on Monday and the launching of five short-range missiles on Monday and Tuesday, North Korea has been condemned by the international community. Now, North Korea is threatening to retaliate if its ships are stopped by security-packed countries. North Korea also stated it will no longer honor the 1953 armistice that divided the peninsula. The White House today saying...
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That we'll take and do whatever is necessary, but I think that the North Koreans are obviously desirous of, through bluster and threat, international attention.
PILGRIM: Earlier this week, the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman says he thinks it is necessary to get North Korea to return to six-party talks.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: What's important for us is to act in unity, calmly, sensibly, and come together in ways that try to put either the six-party talks or other talks back on track so that hopefully this kind of stupidity will cease.
PILGRIM: The most serious concern is the activity at North Korea's Yongbyon nuclear facility which U.S. officials say has been picked up on spy satellites.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: North Korea agreed in 2008 to halt its nuclear weapons program which most experts believe could generate half-a-dozen atomic bombs. Now that pledge was not honored and North Korea expelled international inspectors and has said that it plans to restart the reactor at Yongbyon. Now we will have much more on this developing story later in the broadcast.
Communist China has quarantined a group of U.S. students and teachers because of concerns about possible swine flu. The 21 students and three teachers are from a private school in Silver Spring, Maryland. Now they are expected to fly home Sunday. This is not the first time China has quarantined suspected swine flu patients. Earlier this month, officials confined nearly 300 people to a hotel in Hong Kong.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is also in China. She's calling for increased U.S.-Chinese cooperation to tackle climate change. Her visit comes before a meeting in the Danish capital of Copenhagen on carbon emissions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: And U.S. an China being big economies in the world, of course, but also big emitters of greenhouse gases, have a responsibility, I believe, to understand each other, to learn from each other, to do the best possible -- take the best possible steps so that we will have a workable protocol coming out of Copenhagen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now Speaker Pelosi has avoided any criticism of China's human rights record on this trip.
Well there is not much criticism of China expected from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner either. He will visit Beijing next week. A senior Treasury official today said Geithner will try to ease Chinese concerns about this country's exploding budget deficit. Well Geithner is not expected to repeat his charge that Beijing is manipulating its currency.
President Obama tonight focused on another important international issue -- the search for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. The president met with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas at the White House. President Obama challenged Israel to stop building settlements in the West Bank.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In my conversations with Prime Minister Netanyahu, I was very clear about the need to stop settlements, to make sure that we are stopping the building of outposts, to work with the Palestinian Authority in order to alleviate some of the pressures that the Palestinian people are under in terms of travel and commerce.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: President Obama's message came on the same day that Israel again refused to freeze construction on the West Bank.
The White House today faced a barrage of questions about the position on abortion held by Supreme Court nominee Sotomayor and this because Judge Sotomayor has never made any direct rulings on the issue. White House press secretary Robert Gibbs indicated that President Obama is confident Sotomayor will not challenge abortion rights if she's confirmed. Dan Lothian reports from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There are no direct rulings to help paint a clear picture of where Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor stands on abortion rights. Yet, President Obama, who as a candidate said this on abortion in the courts...
OBAMA: I won't back down when it comes to defending the freedom of women.
LOTHIAN: And this...
OBAMA: I'm committed to appointing judges who understand how our laws operate in our daily lives.
LOTHIAN: And at the same Florida event, even noted that quote, "five men on the Supreme Court don't know better than women and their doctors" never talked to Sotomayor about this polarizing issue.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why wasn't it important for him to ask her about where she stood?
GIBBS: Well, I think the president believed it was exceedingly important to get her views on how she interprets the living document of the Constitution of the United States of America.
LOTHIAN: Robert Gibbs' defense -- the president is comfortable with her judicial philosophy. Anti-abortion and abortion rights groups seem to be united behind one question -- where does Sotomayor stand.
RICHARD LAND, SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION: Well we don't have any definitive word on where she stands. Well, I'd like to know more.
LOTHIAN: In the most recent CNN poll, the majority of Americans, 68 percent, don't think the Supreme Court should overturn Roe v. Wade. With a divided court, Sotomayor's vote could be pivotal. Where she stands or more importantly how she would rule on this issue will be closely probed on Capitol Hill during her upcoming confirmation process.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LOTHIAN: Clearly, there's politics at play here. While the spokesman, the president's spokesman, says that he did not explicitly talk about the issue of abortion, the White House is sending a message out to the public that the president is very comfortable and believes that he will no surprises on this issue if she's confirmed -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Dan Lothian -- thanks Dan.
Well a new opinion poll says many Americans are unconvinced that Sonia Sotomayor is the best pick for the Supreme Court. The Gallup poll says 47 percent of Americans believe Sotomayor is an excellent or a good choice. But 33 percent think she is a fair or poor pick and 20 percent have no opinion.
A reporter covering President Obama's departure from Los Angeles international airport today was forcibly removed from a press area. Airport security officers carried the reporter away after she said she wanted to give the president a letter urging him to stand up for traditional marriage. She identified herself as Brenda Lee of the "Georgia Informer". This incident happened about 10 minutes before President Obama arrived at the airport. The reporter was later released.
The Republican Party launches an all-out assault against House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and troubling new charges of racial discrimination in promotions for first responders.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: A group of white police officers in Flint, Michigan, has filed a racial discrimination suit against the city. Now this suit claims Flint gave out promotions to black and female officers while passing by more qualified white candidates. The city was under pressure by special interest groups to promote minority officers. Ines Ferre has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Forty-five white police officers in Flint, Michigan alleged they were denied jobs because of the color of their skin. In 2006, then-mayor Don Williamson created a unit called Citizens Service Bureau with five positions, one major and four inspectors. It came amid complaints by African-American groups that there wasn't enough minority representation in the force leadership.
The plaintiffs allege the new positions paid more than what captains and lieutenants made. Court documents say Williamson was given a list of officers with at least 10 years of experience. Alongside the names a city Human Resources official testified an ethnic code with race and gender. The positions were given to four African-Americans and one white female.
The jobs were never posted. No exams were given and no applications taken. The plaintiffs claim this is racial discrimination under the Constitution's equal protection clause.
GLEN LENHOFF, PLAINTIFF'S LAWYER: We want a system in the United States where people get jobs based on their qualifications and based on their industriousness. That is a system that we should strive for.
FERRE: Williamson testified "we wanted to pick as equal as we could black to whites when we did this. And we did." He said he offered a position to two white officers but they declined. The city says it does not comment on ongoing lawsuits. We called Williamson's lawyer who was not available for comment.
(on camera): A district judge said the case can go forward. No trial date has been set yet.
Ines Ferre, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well this isn't the first time Flint, Michigan has been sued for racial discrimination by its uniformed officers. In 2001, a white firefighter sued the city. John Linker (ph) claimed that he was passed over for promotion in favor of less qualified African-American firefighters. Now the Michigan Court of Appeals agreed and they found in his favor. The city settled with Linker (ph) who is now retired.
A hospital is accused of forcing an employee to remove an American flag from her office -- says the story was misinterpreted. Debbie McLucas (ph) works at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield, Texas and she hung a three-by-five foot American flag in her shared office just before Memorial Day but the flag was taken down.
She says it was removed because a supervisor from another country complained that it was offensive. Public outrage at the incident was enormous and now the hospital management released a statement saying quote, "the issue was simply a dispute between two employees who shared a small work space. One of whom removed the flag because of its size. We support our employees' First Amendment rights."
Debbie McLucas (ph) has been told that she can re-hang that flag on her wall. We'd like to know what you think. Here's tonight's poll question -- do you think that Americans should be able to display the American flag wherever and whenever they want? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com and we'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
The Republican Party tonight has launched a new ad campaign targeting House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. The GOP is trying to exploit the controversy over the speaker's assertion that the CIA misled her on waterboarding. That's an assertion the CIA denies. Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): The House Republican Campaign Committee has found a target for 2010.
PELOSI: On the subject that you asked, I made the statement that I'm going to make. I won't have anything more to say about it.
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: I won't have anything more to say about it.
SCHNEIDER: Remember "Mission Impossible", about an agent who betrays the CIA? Republicans are running this ad linking a Maryland Democrat to Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They mislead us all the time.
(MUSIC)
SCHNEIDER: Republicans are running radio ads targeting six Democrats in five states.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, RADIO AD "INVESTIGATION": Teague voted to protect Pelosi. Why? My sources say Teague votes with Pelosi 92 percent of the time. Case closed.
SCHNEIDER: Why Pelosi? Why don't they target the big guy? Because 62 percent approve of the job President Obama is doing. Speaker Pelosi, 39 percent; 48 percent disapprove. The speaker's popularity has been going down since she took on the CIA.
We've seen this before. Back in 1982, Republicans ran ads targeting House Speaker Tip O'Neill rather than...
(AUDIO GAP)
SCHNEIDER: Didn't work. Democrats gained House seats. Right now Republicans are getting only about a third of the congressional vote, but nearly half the voters have a negative opinion of Speaker Pelosi. The Republicans' mission which they have chosen to accept, is to transform negative opinion of Pelosi into votes for House Republicans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: In a statement to CNN, a spokeswoman for the House Democratic campaign dismissed the Republican ads as quote, "just an attempt to distract from the progress President Obama, Speaker Pelosi and the Democratic Congress are making." President Obama does seem to get pretty prominent mention there -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much -- Bill Schneider.
The nation's war on drugs -- new evidence tonight that one strategy could be wasting billions of taxpayer dollars and a Miami priest embroiled in a sex scandal says he's leaving the Catholic Church for a new church.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: A new report tonight shows a disturbing imbalance in the nation's war on drugs between fighting the cause and fighting the effects. We spend almost a half trillion dollars on the war on drugs but less than two percent of that money goes towards prevention -- Brooke Baldwin reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the war on drugs wages on, American taxpayers are paying for it in ways you might not realize. That's according to a report released today by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, a group at Columbia University.
SUSAN FOSTER, CTR. ON ADDICTION & SUBSTANCE ABUSE: This is a spectacular waste of taxpayer dollars. And it's time to shift these -- the burden and to shift the spending patterns.
BALDWIN: Of the $3.3 trillion the federal and state government spent in 2005, 374 billion went to tobacco, alcohol and illegal and prescription drug abuse, including its consequences. For every dollar spent by state and federal governments, CASA says 96 cents paid for the burden of abuse, including law enforcement, child welfare and health care for cancer, cirrhosis or overdose. Only two cents cover the costs for prevention and treatment, like screenings or intervention.
FOSTER: Rather than investing in effective prevention programs that can spot this problem early, we are waiting, we're ignoring the problem, we are looking the other way, we're waiting until these problems show up in our juvenile justice systems.
BALDWIN: On the same day CASA released its report, the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy released one of its own. Its research reaffirms the connection between drugs and crime and emphasizes the need to expand drug treatment programs, particularly for non-violent offenders or effective alternative prison.
In a statement on the group's Web site, the director said, "research shows that recidivism rates go down substantially among those who undergo treatment and recovery support services in the criminal justice system."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: And you know Foster agrees with that. She says when it comes to non-violent offenders and the cost of addiction, the government needs to not only reprimand these offenders for crime, but make sure addicts get proper treatment. In addition, CASA says there is still this stigma attached to the disease of addiction and public policy; public attitudes have not accepted it. And it is reflected as we saw in the piece in the dollars and cents they're spending and Foster says, Kitty that that simply needs to change.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Brooke Baldwin.
Well some other stories that we're following tonight across the country -- Father Alberto Cutie is leaving the Catholic Church. He is the celebrity Miami priest who was caught in a sexual affair and today Cutie announced he is pursuing priesthood in the Episcopal Church. And there he will be able to continue his relationship with the woman he has been seeing for more than two years. He asked for understanding today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBERTO CUTIE, FORMER CATHOLIC PRIEST: My personal struggle should in no way tarnish the many faithful brother priests who are celibate and are faithful to the commitment that they made. I will always love and hold dear the Roman Catholic Church and all its members who are committed to their faith and have enriched my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Cutie will deliver a sermon at the Episcopal Diocese of Southeast Florida this Sunday.
The family of a woman who died of hospital neglect in New York City has been awarded $2 million in a wrongful death suit. Esmand Green's (ph) death in the Kings County Hospital waiting room was recorded on security cameras last year. She was a psychiatric patient who collapsed after waiting for 24 hours. The staff ignored her and she died. The hospital was forced to make sweeping changes. A full investigation is still ongoing.
And in Pennsylvania tonight, a desperate search for a kidnapped child and her mother has ended in a hoax. Two days ago, Bonnie Sweeten called 911 claiming she and her 9-year-old daughter had been kidnapped and put in the trunk of a car. Security cameras captured the two at the Philadelphia International Airport. Sweeten's calls were traced to Florida. Sweeten and her daughter were found at Disney World. Sweeten faces misdemeanor charges and tonight officials are investigating possible domestic problems. Americans hoping to exercise their Second Amendment rights in our national parks will have to wait and the increasingly bitter fight over California's ban on same-sex marriage. That is our "Face-Off" tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: We have some good economic news tonight. The number of newly laid off people filing for unemployment benefits fell last week. The Labor Department says initial jobless claims dropped to 623,000. That's down 13,000 from the week before.
And orders for durable goods jumped 1.9 percent in April -- a larger increase than was expected. And that is the second increase in three months. It could be a sign for manufacturers, at least, that the recession is bottoming out.
Well the budget crisis is worsening in California tonight. It has been a week since the voters there rejected a package of tax increases and borrowing to close a historic deficit. And now Californians are furious over the alternative proposed budget cuts. On the table is everything from health care to education to law enforcement. Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: No more cuts. No more cuts.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Angry protestors surrounded California's state Capitol as lawmakers struggled with more than $18 billion in budget cuts proposed by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.
JIM NIELSEN (R), CALIFORNIA ASSEMBLY: This is historic. This is of the magnitude that's incomprehensible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mood is a little bit of a shock and awe.
WIAN: Now that voters have rejected plans to close California's budget deficit with borrowing and taxes, spending cuts are the only alternative.
LINNIE COBB, HEALTH CARE PROVIDER: People are angry and upset and they are confused.
WIAN: Especially about cuts that will eliminate health care coverage for nearly a million children.
JOSHUA STARK, LAID-OFF WORKER: I don't want to wait until my 2 1/2-year-old baby has an emergency to have her get to be looked at by a doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To eliminate or even cut back this program makes absolutely no sense.
WIAN: And by cuts to education. BRUCE VANG, HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: Cutting the students off from money for college, there must be other alternatives.
WIAN: Other proposed cuts include ending California's welfare to work program, laying off 5,000 state workers, releasing 19,000 jail inmates, and eliminating funding for state parks.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: We have always spent more money than we have -- this state -- the other thing that we have to stop -- that we should not live beyond our means. We wanted to raise some extra revenues, but the people in the special election have voted against that.
WIAN: California is asking the Obama administration to guarantee short-term loans to survive an expected cash crunch this summer. The president himself was in California Wednesday night asking for political donations from some of the state's wealthiest residents. He reportedly raised between three and $4 million during a Beverly Hills dinner attended by several Hollywood celebrities.
(on camera): The timing was at best uncomfortable, now that millions of Californians are facing a future without jobs or health care or education because of the state's money troubles.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Also in California, the battle over gay marriage is heating up. Now the state's highest court earlier this week upheld Proposition 8. Now this is the ballot measure voters approved last year that banned same-sex marriage and now gay rights groups are fighting to put same-sex marriage back on the ballot this year.
Opponents of the ban have launched another legal challenge, so joining us for tonight's "Face-Off" is Maggie Gallagher, president of the National Organization for Marriage and with us in the studio is Tobias Wolf. He's a constitutional law professor at the University of Pennsylvania and he's representing a number of civil rights groups in the challenge to Proposition 8 and during the presidential campaign he was Obama's -- the Obama campaign's chief advisor on gay issues.
Thank you very much for both being here. You know I think the real operative question -- Tobias, I'll start with you. Should this be a ballot issue? Should this be a legal issue? Where should this be really substantively addressed?
TOBIAS WOLF, LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Well, I think that there is a role for both. I think there's both a role for courts to explain and enforce people's rights when the government is refusing to do that. But I think it is also very important for our political institutions to be involved and engaged with recognizing people's rights and helping to carry them into effect.
And in California, the Prop 8 election fight this past November was a very close election. The electorate moved a little over ten points in the course of ten years; an extraordinary movement. I think there is very good reason to believe the electorate in California is ready to get rid of Prop 8. And I think that would be the best outcome.
PILGRIM: Maggie, proponents of gay marriage have already started gathering 700,000 signatures needed to repeal Prop 8 to put it on the ballot in 2010. What's your opinion on that?
MAGGIE GALLAGHER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE: I think that's the right way to do it. I don't think the people of California, however, are ready -- having voted twice in the last ten years, to say marriage means a man and a woman.
I think it's a real uphill battle to go back to them in just two years and say we want to put you through this whole thing all over again. I do think there will be some push-back from the people of California.
Not that -- they have every right to do it. That's what we did. We went out and the National Organization for Marriage was involved in collecting over 700,000 signatures. We put it to the people. It was a hard-fought, fair and free election to amend the constitution and we won.
I hope that gay marriage advocates will renounce this strategy of going to courts to try to take away the civil rights Californians who disagree with them to participate in the political process and amend their own Constitution.
PILGRIM: You know what I found very interesting? Two of the country's top attorneys, we have Democratic attorney David Boise, we have Republican attorney Ted Olson actually joined forces to challenge the court's ruling. What do you think of that kind of legal challenge that's going on?
WOLF: Well, I got excited. They're both very distinguished attorneys. I applaud them for their support for equality and for fairness.
Frankly, I think that a federal court challenge is not the right thing right now. And the reason why, is that number one, the Supreme Court of the United States at some point will have to speak to this question. We get one shot at that. What we've been doing for decades now is the very important work of winning equality for all people and for the families of gay and lesbian couples, state by state, and building a consensus and building a record on these issues. That's the circumstance that you want to have when you bring an issue of this kind of importance before the Supreme Court of the United States.
Frankly, there are four very solid bad votes on the court for equality for gays and lesbians right now. And I think it's not the right time for it. I must say, I applaud their instincts but I think their judgment is a little bit off.
PILGRIM: There are four states that issue marriage licenses for same-sex couples in the United States. We'll put this up for our viewers to review -- Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, Maine.
In your opinion -- Maggie, I'll ask you this -- is this a decision that should be left up to the states?
GALLAGHER: Let me just respond to the last question.
PILGRIM: Ok, sure.
GALLAGHER: I really don't think gay marriage is a civil right. I think that it is a civil wrong. And I think the American people should be clear that what's happening now is not about Prop 8. It is an attempt to get the Supreme Court to rule that gay marriage is a civil right in all 50 states and to overturn the 30 states that have passed marriage amendments and the 46 states that define marriage as the union of a husband and a wife. That's a pretty big deal that these two lawyers are going to try to get the Supreme Court to do.
You know, the four states that you mentioned, I think that the voters of Maine will overturn same-sex marriage just like the people of California did this November. I know we're working and the local coalition is working to get that before the people of Maine.
In Iowa, it's going to be longer, because the legislature there is refusing to put it before the people. But we're going to work. It is a two to four-year campaign to get that to the people. We're not ceding this territory and we're going to work to pass marriage amendments in all the states that we can.
PILGRIM: Let me just bring up for our viewers some public opinion polls because I think they're quite interesting. We have a CNN poll that says gays and lesbians have the constitutional right to get married; 54 percent say no.
Let me contrast this with another Gallup poll that found that 59 percent of 18 to 29 year-olds favor making gay marriages legal. We have a big national debate about this.
This is not an individual sort of private sort of discussion at this point. This is a large, national, interesting debate. What do you think about these two kinds of polls? To me, it suggests that younger people are perhaps more accepting.
WOLF: Well, I think it speaks to a key issue. I'd actually like to take this as a point of departure to pose a question to Maggie, if I could.
PILGRIM: Go right ahead.
WOLF: By conservative estimates, there's about 10 million to 12 million gay people in the United States. No matter what we do in our laws, they're going to be there and they're going to be having families and they're going to be having relationships and they have kids and they have parents and they have brothers and sisters.
And Miss Gallagher has used some very strong language to say what she thinks gay and lesbian couples should not be able to do. I'd like her to tell us what she wants those couples to do. What should those couples do?
PILGRIM: We're almost out of time but I will let you respond. Go ahead.
GALLAGHER: I think that they're free to live as they choose. What they shouldn't do, either gay or straight, is redefine marriage. There is a reason a marriage means a husband and wife. These unions are really special and distinct.
Part of the reason is that children need a mother and father. Whatever you're going to do for gay people, I don't think you should mess with that.
By the way, that Gallup poll you mentioned, 57 -- growing opposition to gay marriage, the highest level since 2005; 57 percent of Americans do not support gay marriage. I don't think we should go to 18 year-olds and ask them to determine the future of marriage. I think the wisdom of the older generations is something we should be listening to right now.
PILGRIM: You know, I have to say that sometimes you get a good bit of wisdom from young people, too. I have to disagree on that one point.
We leave the debate here. We can't solve it tonight but thank you for joining us to discuss.
Maggie Gallagher and Tobias Wolf, thank you very much.
WOLF: Thank you.
GALLAGHER: Thank you.
PILGRIM: A bill ensuring our second amendment rights in our national parks has been signed. It's still not in effect, however. In fact, it won't be in effect for nine months. Tonight groups opposed to the bill are prepared to try and stop it from being implemented at all.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The right to carry firearms in national parks was vehemently opposed by gun control advocates in Congress. In the heat of the opposition, gun owners were sometimes characterized as crazy, unstable people.
REP. SAM FARR (D), CALIFORNIA: Now you're going to have some gun nut come in there and see something wrestling at night and decide that maybe I'm being attacked by a wild animal.
TUCKER: But the measure was tucked into the credit card bill and passed. President Obama signed it. And gun control advocates in the public and private sector believe they still have time to repeal the law. But that their time is short. That's because the Department of Interior issued this statement last Friday when the bill was signed, quote, "The Department of Interior will follow Congress' directive and implement the new firearms law which states that its provisions will take effect nine months from today."
The Department, of course, has no choice but to implement it. It's the time frame that gives the opposition hope.
THERESA PIERNO, NATIONAL PARKS CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION: I think the nine months are certainly going to give the members of Congress as well as the Secretary of Interior time to look at some of the concerns and complexities that many individuals, organizations, stated were there.
TUCKER: Among their concerns is that visible guns on some park visitors will make other visitors uncomfortable and they say that there will be confusion over gun laws in parks. That's because the new law places control of park gun laws into the hands of state lawmakers.
Some parks are located in more than one state, and states have different gun laws. But most are considered friendly to gun owners.
WAYNE LAPIERRE, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: Americans want to be able to protect themselves from bad guys and they believe in their Constitutional right to own a firearm. And the American public has proven over and over and over again they want more of this freedom, not less. And that's slowly dawning on the political class in this country.
TUCKER: Congress seems to understand that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: The vote allowing firearms to be carried in parks was very bipartisan; 105 Democrats in the House, 27 Democrats in the senate joined with Republicans. And together, Kitty, that means they formed a veto-proof majority in Congress.
PILGRIM: Interesting. Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
The nation's new border czar speaks out about Mexican drug violence threatening our security.
And, tensions rise in the Korean peninsula. The Obama administration takes new action. Military analyst David Grange and a top Korea expert Gordon Chang will join us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: A key recommendation of the 9/11 Commission is about to be implemented. Travelers entering the United States from Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean will be required to present passports or other security IDs. The new rules were adopted to make it more difficult for terrorists to obtain real identity documents. Louise Schiavone reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It will take a whole new set of 21st century IDs to get land and sea travelers in and out of the continental U.S. starting next week; a product of the 9/11 commission.
JANICE KEPHART, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: Assuring that people are who they say they are when they come across the border is incredibly important to our national security.
SCHIAVONE: For instance, wallet-sized cards with built-in chips an antenna are designed to get frequent travelers across the border by signaling their approach from 30 feet away.
STEVE LEBLANC, GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE: It broadcasts a unique number that Customs and Border Patrol uses to pull your data out of their database so that when you arrive at the immigration point a few seconds later, all the information is up there and waiting for the official to use at a screening tool.
SCHIAVONE: So far the government has printed a half a million of these. The Government Printing Office, Homeland Security and the State Department have joined forces in the effort.
BRENDA SPRAGUE, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: People are going to love it once it's in operation, especially those in the border communities, because I think it's going to improve traffic at those points because people will only have to check a handful of documents. They'll have greater security.
SCHIAVONE: Starting Monday, birth certificates and most U.S. driver's licenses will not meet the test at the border for Americans returning by land or sea from Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean. What does work: a U.S. passport, a passport card, a credit card-sized ID good only for land and sea travel, trusted traveler program cards for those frequently crossing the border and enhanced driver's licenses currently offered only by Michigan, New York, Vermont and Washington. It's all detailed at www.getyouhome.gov.
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SCHIAVONE: U.S. officials tell us that recent border traffic suggest travelers are ready for the tighter security requirements. But even without these preferred documents, all Americans have the right to go home. It's just going to take longer.
Louise Schiavone for CNN, Washington.
PILGRIM: More than 10,000 people have been killed in drug violence in Mexico over the past 2 1/2 years. The drug cartels are now linked to crimes in this country.
The Obama administration has promised to tighten border security and joining me now from the border in El Paso, Texas, is our new border czar, Alan Bersin. He is the Department of Homeland Security Assistant Secretary for international affairs and special representative for border affairs.
Thank you so much, congratulations on your job. Thanks for joining us.
ALAN BERSIN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, HOMELAND SECURITY: Thank you, very much.
PILGRIM: I really have to say, today you commemorated the 85th anniversary of the United States Border Patrol in El Paso. To my mind, you have one of the toughest jobs in the country. Many people think it is quite a mess, the border is broken. What's your vision for how to fix this?
BERSIN: I think it was important to be at the 85th anniversary of the Border Patrol because it marked where we've been and actually shed some light on the challenges that we face in the future. I'm convinced that having watched the border patrol at the time of "Operation Gatekeeper" in the early '90s and seeing where we are today, I think we're better resourced, better led and better organized and better prepared to deal with the challenges that the border presents.
PILGRIM: I do have to point out -- our guest -- you spent three years as a border czar previously so you are not new to this job.
I would like to, however, bring up a comment that you said. You said the border is not the problem, and you said, I'll read the quote, "It's better to think of a border as a thermostat for a larger, long- term issue that both our countries are dealing with." That's a nice -- it's very nice theoretically to think of it that way, but there are really hard, serious issues and actions that have to be taken. How do we stop the violence on the Mexican side of the border?
BERSIN: I agree with you that the issues that are presented at the border require a very sharp and a very tough enforcement response. The notion of having to interdict illegal drugs and illegal migrants is at the top of the agenda for the Obama administration. And I've been specifically directed to coordinate activities here to that end by Secretary Napolitano.
Having said that, we're dealing with huge issues of drug consumption in this country and the Mexican organized crime in Mexico and the lack of a legitimate labor market -- those are the larger issues that I talked about. That doesn't mean that we don't have huge problems at the border, and enforcement, enforcement, enforcement isn't the answer. Safety and security is the predicate for everything else that will happen here.
PILGRIM: That makes perfect sense, sir.
You bring up corruption in Mexico. We recently had ten mayors arrested, 17 government officials arrested on drug ties. We've seen massive amounts of corruption in the Mexican government with regard to drug trafficking.
How do you begin to get a handle on that? And is that something that you can actually do something about?
Well, Secretary Napolitano and this administration is determined to take advantage of something that's dramatically different. For the first time in the history of the border, and in a bilateral relationship, we actually have a president sitting in the Los Pinos, in the Mexican White House who has declared war on the cartels. That's a completely different posture than has been taken in the past.
At the same time, what we see in terms of the Obama administration, working with the Calderon administration, we see the kind of opportunities for cooperation; cooperative law enforcement that simply never existed before.
That doesn't mean that we don't recognize and acknowledge, and in fact the Mexican government talks very candidly about the problems of corruption, the problems of an unreliable judiciary. That's an issue that needs to get started on, and we need to help.
But, for the first time, we actually have a recognition by both countries that the border is a national security concern for both sides of the border.
PILGRIM: We wish you every success. This is a very, very important issue for many Americans. Thank you very much for being with us, Alan Bersin, border czar. Thank you, sir.
BERSIN: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Coming up at the top of the hour, "NO BIAS, NO BULL" with Roland Martin, in for Campbell Brown -- Roland.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN GUEST HOST, "NO BIAS, NO BULL": Hey, Kitty. How are you doing?
Tonight the president is feeling push-back from the left over his pick to be the next Supreme Court justice. Abortion rights groups say they aren't sure where Judge Sonia Sotomayor stands. Could she be the swing vote that could overturn Roe v. Wade?
Also ahead, the emotional battle over the government's plan for a 9/11 memorial at the Flight 93 crash site in Pennsylvania. Should the feds be seizing privately-owned land to honor those killed in the attack.
We'll look at that and more, all at the top of the hour. And of course, Kitty, if you heard that talking, Lisa bloom was talking on her cell phone because she didn't realize we were on live television.
PILGRIM: Well, it happens. Thanks very much, Roland. We look forward to your show.
MARTIN: Thanks a lot Kitty. PIGRIM: New developments tonight in the North Korean nuclear crisis. General David Grange and a top expert on North Korea will join me next.
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PILGRIM: Within the past hour, the Obama administration has said it will send a top-level delegation to Asia to discuss the military and diplomatic crisis over North Korea. Earlier, the U.S. and South Korean militaries raised their alert status to the highest level in almost three years.
Joining me now: CNN military analyst General David Grange and Gordon Chang, author of "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea takes on the world." Gentlemen with this kind of expertise, thank you for join us tonight -- we're in good shape.
Gordon let me start with you. The Obama administration doesn't really have their full team in place, not confirmed for the region, just naming ambassadors. They are sending a high-level delegation. Are they a little off the mark to start with on this?
GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN": They are really behind the ball. They just named their ambassador to China a week ago; he is certainly not confirmed. The envoy for North Korea is a part-timer. Can you imagine that?
Clearly they don't have it in place. And I think what they are going is stalling for time on North Korea because they don't really know what to do yet.
The problem is they are giving the impression that we can't stop North Korea as they stall. And Iran sees this as a big green light for its own nuclear ambitions. This is not going to end well either in North Asia or the Middle East.
PILGRIM: And the envoy for North Korea just has no plans to travel to North Korea and did a tour of the region which didn't include North Korea.
Let me turn to the military side of this. General Grange, we have 28,500 troops there. The war time operational control goes to ROK in 2012. We are really still kind of in charge of this. Where do we stand in terms of military strength and what should we be doing about this situation?
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, on the South Korean side, of course the South Korean army trained by the United States military for over half a century has a majority of the task. But the U.S. military, a very modernized, very maneuver-type unit -- units, are there to take on North Korea mostly in more of a counterattack type of a mode.
But if you cross the DMZ, if a fight does start it just shows that the United States of America is totally committed to this fight and that you'll see in this kind of situation, not so much the 28,000 American troops on the ground doing a whole lot in the war, but mainly Air Force and Navy involvement from afar.
PILGRIM: Right. From their stations in the region.
Let me go to the diplomatic side because in this entire crisis so far we've been talking about the Obama administration. We've been talking about diplomatic solutions, talks -- six-party talks, returning to the six-party talks with North Korea actually rejected.
They are talking about a U.N. resolution with more teeth in it. Gordon, should we be talking tougher? Should we be doing something different?
CHANG: You know, there is not inherently wrong going to the U.N. But our U.N. Strategies over the years have really just resulted in failure because we've been sort of allowing the Chinese and the Russians to delay things. Basically this has given the North Koreans and the Iranians the one thing that they needed most to make themselves real threats and that is time.
What we are doing right now is we should be aligning our friends before we go to the U.N. so that when we go to the U.N. we get what we want. Instead of going to the U.N. and trying to negotiate it on the floor in New York.
PILGRIM: General Grange, you talk about our allies, Japan and Korea. We are committed to defend our allies in the region. What should our allies be doing? There's some discussion that they should be doing more militarily. What is your view of this?
GRANGE: I think we ought to continue to allow Japan to modernize. We ought to continue to make South Korea as robust as possible. It really is key that Japan and South Korea is involved with us in this situation. I agree, the U.N., I think, is weak. My dealings in uniform with the U.N. was that they have no teeth and the Security Council is made up where you can't get anything approved to do anything.
You have North Korea and you have Iran moving ahead willy-nilly, so it's key we get the allies in the region together before we start negotiating with anybody.
PILGRIM: We have Seoul moving a high-speed destroyer into Korea's maritime border; it's a disputed border. Gordon, you've studied this for decades. Do you think this crisis will escalate or not?
CHANG: It certainly will escalate and when you just look at what's happened this week with the nuclear detonation, the firing of the rockets and North Korea repudiating the armistice. That maritime boundary is very dangerous even in good times. There have been deadly clashes and clearly right now the North Koreans are moving their artillery to their western border right close to that maritime area. This is going to be extremely dangerous.
PILGRIM: All right. Gordon Chang, David Grange, thank you very much for being with us tonight. Thank you. GRANGE: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Still ahead, tonight's poll results. We'll be right back.
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PILGRIM: Tonight's poll results, 93 percent of you think Americans should be able to display the American flag wherever and whenever they want.
Thanks for being with us tonight. "NO BIAS, NO BULL" starts right now and in for Campbell Brown is Roland Martin.
