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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Political Turmoil in Iran; North Korean Threat; Senator Ensign Admits Affair; Your Bailout at Work; President Obama Fires Inspector General; Extended School Year
Aired June 16, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: President Obama today delivering some of his sharpest criticism yet of North Korea -- President Obama promising to break the cycle of crisis and reward. He said a nuclear North Korea would never be acceptable to the United States.
Political turmoil in another country with nuclear ambitions -- seven people are now reported dead in Iran after a second day of mass demonstrations -- the Iranian government has rejected calls for a full recount of the disputed election and have begun cracking down on foreign journalists.
And reform of a different kind in the United States -- health care reform. No one in Congress or the White House knows what form it might take or how much it might cost, but one thing seems absolutely certain, some in Congress want you to pay for it with new taxes.
And accusations that liberals are using conservative rhetoric of faith, God and politics to push their health care agenda. That's the subject of our "Face Off" debate tonight.
And Republican Senator John Ensign of Nevada has just admitted to an extramarital affair. We'll have full details of this breaking story.
We begin tonight with news out of Iran -- President Obama today dismissed criticism that he isn't speaking out forcefully enough on Iran despite widespread claims of fraud in that country's elections. President Obama refusing to say the re-election of President Ahmadinejad appeared rigged, even as the political turmoil in Iran worsens.
There were more violent confrontations on the streets of Tehran today, demonstrations in which signs were held saying where is my vote and tens of thousands of people demanding a full recount of Friday's election. The Iranian government said it would recount just some. Ed Henry has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president said he has deep concerns about the election results in Iran but does not want to interfere.
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not productive given the history of U.S.-Iranian relations to be seen as meddling, the U.S. president meddling in Iranian elections. What I will repeat and what I said yesterday is that when I see violence directed at peaceful protesters, when I see peaceful dissent being suppressed, wherever that takes place, it is of concern to me and it's of concern to the American people.
HENRY: For the second straight day, the president stopped short of saying the re-election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is illegitimate. Fueling Republican charges that Mr. Obama's response has been too muted.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: The president should speak out that this election is flawed. It is wrong. It's a depravation of the Iranian people of their basic human right.
HENRY: But the president notes there were no international observers on the ground in Iraq. So it's impossible to make a definitive judgment.
OBAMA: There are people who want to see greater openness and greater debate and want to see greater democracy. How that plays out over the next several days and several weeks is something ultimately for the Iranian people to decide. But I stand strongly with the universal principle that people's voices should be heard and not suppressed.
HENRY (on camera): Meanwhile senior administration officials tell CNN that Dennis Ross, a State Department envoy is moving over to a top staff position at the White House to lead Iran policy shows the president is beefing up for some tough decisions ahead, but also that he continues to centralize power here at the White House instead of in the cabinet.
Ed Henry, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The president's personal response to the situation in Iran is in stark contrast to his administration's position on North Korea. President Obama today declared North Korea to be a grave threat and promised to stop rewarding the communist country for repeatedly breaking its promises not to develop nuclear weapons.
President Obama made his comments after a meeting at the White House with South Korea's leader. President Obama said the United States planned serious enforcement of international sanctions against North Korea including confronting but not boarding North Korean ships. Dan Lothian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Meeting the press in the Rose Garden, President Obama and South Korean President Lee sent a clear warning to the North, drawing a line in the sand. OBAMA: There's been a pattern in the past where North Korea behaves in a belligerent fashion and if it waits long enough has been rewarded with food stuffs and fuel and concessionaire loans. We are going to break that pattern.
LOTHIAN: The U.N. Security Council recently imposed tough, new sanctions on North Korea, squeezing its financial lifeline by clamping down of the shipment of arms, part of an effort to force the communist regime to halt its development of nuclear weapons.
OBAMA: I don't think there's any question that that would be a destabilizing situation that would be a profound threat to not only the United States security, but to world security.
LOTHIAN: A danger to the world and its neighbors, although President Lee suggested his country isn't rattled by the threat of an attack because the U.S. is in its corner.
PRES. MYUNG-BAK LEE, SOUTH KOREA (through translator): And it's very firm lines that we have between the United States and Korea is going to prevent anything from happening. And of course North Korea may have -- may wish to do so, but of course they will not be able to do so.
LOTHIAN: Myung-Ok Kim, a Washington, D.C. restaurant manager is watching the tensions closely. With two brothers still living in South Korea, she does worry about what the North may be able to do.
MYUNG-OK KIM, SOUTH KOREAN IMMIGRANT: I'm so scared of this because it's the civil war and it's a game. It's no good.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LOTHIAN: President Obama says that he's more than willing to engage in negotiations to get North Korea on a peaceful path and the administration also is hoping that these tough sanctions will be the teeth needed to get North Korea's attention -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dan, thank you very much -- Dan Lothian reporting from the White House.
This just in -- the House tonight narrowly approved funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The vote was 226 to 202. Republicans objected to a provision in that bill that provides money for an international loan program for poor nations, the bill goes to the Senate. It could take up the legislation before the end of the week. Again, the House has narrowly approved a bill that would continue funding the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Also just moments ago, Republican Senator John Ensign publicly admitted to an extramarital affair with one of his campaign staffers. Ensign is a leading conservative in the Republican Party. Brianna Keilar is in Washington now and has the very latest for us on this breaking story. Brianna?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Senator Ensign, of course a bit of a rising star in the Republican Party. His office giving us a time line of the events here telling us this affair went on for about eight or nine months between the end of 2007 going into August of 2008 when it ended -- Senator Ensign making this admission of infidelity in Las Vegas just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN ENSIGN (R), NEVADA: Last year, I had an affair. I violated the vows of my marriage. It's absolutely the worst thing that I have ever done in my life. If there was ever anything that I could take back in my life, this would be it.
I take full responsibility for my actions. I know that I have deeply hurt and disappointed my wife Darlene, my children, my family, friends, my staff, and all of those who believed in me. And to all of them, especially my wife, I'm truly sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Senator Ensign's office tells CNN that the campaign staffer he had an affair with was actually married to an official Senate staffer who worked for Senator Ensign and that as of May 2008, which would have been a few months before the end of this affair neither employee was working for Senator Ensign. And, Lou, important to note that we have heard on background from an aide that Senator Ensign is making no plans to resign over this scandal.
DOBBS: And do we know why the senator is making this public admission tonight?
KEILAR: No, at this point, Lou, we don't know. We're working on trying to try to figure that out, but we don't know at this point.
DOBBS: Brianna, thank you very much -- Brianna Keilar from Capitol Hill.
Up next tonight, one Republican is blowing the whistle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I look at these things, I think about what would our grandchildren say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The senator says there's massive waste in the president's almost $800 billion stimulus package -- also tonight the city where you can get a ticket for parking in your very own driveway.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, a report that the Obama administration is wasting billions of your tax dollars on questionable projects in the federal stimulus package. That accusation comes from a Republican lawmaker who says he's identified 100 of the worst examples of waste. Ines Ferre has our report. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been four months since the $787 billion stimulus bill was passed. One Republican senator is already calling out the government for 100 stimulus projects that he says are questionable or just pure waste.
SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: When I look at these things, I think about what would our grandchildren say. A dose of common sense on where this money goes is sorely lacking in this bill.
FERRE: Among the projects highlighted in Coburn's report, $3.4 million for a tunnel in Florida that will let turtles and other creatures cross a highway; $1 billion for FutureGen, a coal energy plant in Illinois that has been controversial even among environmentalists; more than nine million for an old train station in Pennsylvania that according Coburn hasn't been used in 30 years; 2.2 million to install skylights in Montana state-run liquor warehouse; smaller spending includes over half a million on a parking lot in Illinois that the congressman says no one wants; and thousands on a freezer for fish sperm in South Dakota. Groups that advocate lower taxes for Americans are outraged at some of the spending.
STEVE ELLIS, TAXPAYERS FOR COMMON SENSE: We have sent a fire hose of federal cash out to the country and inevitably some of that money is going to get wasted and some of it is going to be spent on goofy or ridiculous projects.
FERRE: The White House today cast aside the report, saying it's filled with inaccuracies.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are projects within the report that haven't been funded, that have been canceled based on (INAUDIBLE) looking into this.
FERRE: A senior advisor to the president for recovery act implementation says, quote, "The program is overall a great success. With 20,000 projects approved, there are bound to be some mistakes, when we find them we have been transparent about it and worked on a bipartisan basis to shut them down immediately."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FERRE: And not too long ago, the head of the board that oversees accountability and transparency talked about the challenge of reducing stimulus waste and fraud saying experts estimate that seven percent of money spent could be lost to fraud. That's equal to about $55 billion -- Lou.
DOBBS: That's a huge number. Thank you very much, Ines -- Ines Ferre.
Well, here's another example from Senator Coburn's report tonight. Road signs that cost $300 each are popping up at construction sites to alert drivers that those projects are paid for with federal stimulus money. The Department of Transportation estimates the total cost of those signs could reach $150,000. The federal government says those signs are, quote, "customary and allowable use of funds".
More calls tonight for an investigation into the president's decision to fire a federal inspector general -- at the center of the controversy, whether President Obama was actually trying to stop an investigation of one of his supporters. Bill Tucker has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Was this man, Gerald Walpin, fired for investigating a man who happens to be a supporter of the president's? Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa and Representative Darrell Issa of California want to find out. The target of the Walpin investigation, former NBA star Kevin Johnson and now mayor of Sacramento.
The inspector general said he misused federal money at a California nonprofit group he ran, St. Hope. Prosecutors decided not to press criminal charges but Johnson and St. Hope agreed to pay back half the money. Walpin was angry about that settlement.
Last Wednesday evening, Walpin, the inspector general of the corporation (INAUDIBLE) community service for AmeriCorps received a phone call from a special counsel to the president telling him he had one hour to resign or he would be fired. He did not resign. Senator Grassley wants to know why Walpin was fired.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: I want to get to the bottom of this. I want to get the e-mails. I want to get other information. I want to know what the president's reasons are for firing this person. We need watch dogs to make sure that the taxpayer's money is not wasted.
TUCKER: No one is disputing that the president can fire Walpin, but the law which Obama co-sponsored when he was in the Senate states that the president must give 30 days notice of the firing and inform Congress of the reasons. The letter from the president to the Speaker of the House and the president of the Senate informs Congress that Walpin was fired and only says, quote, "It is vital that I have the fullest confidence in the appointees serving as inspectors general. That is no longer the case with regard to this inspector general." Not good enough says Congressman Issa.
REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), OVERSIGHT & GOV. REFORM CMTE.: Clearly in the case of IG's, they're supposed to be only fired for cause. A lack of confidence would require at least a statement by the administration of some reason for that lack of confidence. Otherwise, by definition, the cause is simply that I don't want him and that's not the intent.
TUCKER: The White House response stating flatly that the president is fully in compliant with the law noting that a lack of confidence is reason enough. A spokesman points out that Walpin is still collecting a paycheck. He is simply suspended with pay for 30 days before he's terminated and that his firing was backed by the Board of the Corporation of National and Community Service. Walpin thinks his firing is meant to have a chilling effect on all inspector generals.
GERALD WALPIN, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL: IG's are supposed to be independent and not subject to political pressure. By firing me, they're telling other IG's be careful that you don't touch anything that we don't like.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now late today the AmeriCorps Board responded to calls for an investigation assuring Senator Grassley that all documents related to Walpin will be saved. And Senator Claire McCaskill also added her voice, saying she believes the White House failed to comply with the law. She says loss of confidence is simply not reason enough and, Lou, she has some authority here, she wrote the bill.
DOBBS: And Senator McCaskill is also one of the -- President Obama's earliest and strongest supporters and when she says straight up that he's in the wrong here, one would think that the White House would be listening with great attentiveness.
TUCKER: I would imagine she caught their attention this evening when she came out with that statement, Lou.
DOBBS: All right, Bill, thank you very much -- Bill Tucker.
We would like to know what you think about all of this. Our poll question tonight, do you support an investigation into the firing of the inspector general of AmeriCorps. Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.
There's an urgent warning tonight about a popular cold remedy. We'll tell you why the FDA now says you should stop using Zicam spray -- also tonight brand new signs of a recovery in the housing market. How about that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know who was, you know that miscalculated the time, but it's just -- it's not fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Some parents outraged their kids will have to spend an extra month in school -- a little miscalculation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: There's some positive news for the real estate market tonight. May housing starts jump by the largest amount in three months -- up more than 17 percent. Some say the increase in new home construction could mean the worst is over in the housing market.
The Food and Drug Administration today warning consumers to stop using Zicam cold medicine -- the agency said some Zicam nasal spray and swabs could cause users to lose their sense of smell permanently. Those products are sold over the counter. The FDA told the manufacturer that their product could no longer be sold without FDA approval.
But the FDA does not have the authority to order a mandatory recall of those products from stores. The company issued a statement saying "the allegations are unwarranted". We will continue to follow this and have the very latest developments.
Other stories we're following here tonight -- police in Akron, Ohio are searching for a high speed robber, a woman they say has robbed four banks since just Friday. Three of those banks she robbed in the span of 35 minutes.
The woman is described as standing about four-foot-ten to five- feet tall. Police say she entered those banks, handed the tellers notes demanding money, took an undisclosed amount of money and then escaped in a Maroon Ford Taurus. A reward has been offered for information leading to her arrest.
And northwest of Akron in Toledo, Ohio, police are ticketing residents there in their very own driveways. The city's mayor says the $25 parking tickets fall under a law that bans parking on unpaved surfaces and that includes gravel driveways. Residents are to say the least outraged and they say those tickets are an excuse to cover what is a budget crisis in the city.
And it's not a sight you would normally see in the middle of June, but homeowners in New Jersey are using snow blowers and shovels. A storm Monday left more than three inches of hail looking like snow in northern parts of the state. That storm also knocked down trees, causing however only minor damage.
Right about now kids all across this country are looking forward to their last day of school. But in one California school district, a clerical error made by adults means school's in for the summer at least for a good part of it. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Dickson Elementary School (ph) in Chino, California students are supposed to be on summer vacation, as of last Thursday, but many are now spending an extra 34 days in school because someone in the district office made a scheduling mistake on a spreadsheet.
(on camera): What was your reaction when you heard that you were going to have to go to school for 34 extra days?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a shock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know who was, you know that miscalculated the time, but it's just, it's not fair.
WIAN (voice-over): His son doesn't mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to tell my dad I wanted to come.
WIAN: Here's how it happened. Schools operate on short schedules several days per year to allow teachers time to plan for parent conferences. By state law those shortened days must last at least 180 minutes, but at Dickson and one other Chino elementary school the conference day schedules were five and 10 minutes short respectively.
The time could have been made up in a day or two. But under state law, the 34 too short, short days don't count at all and must be made up in full or the school district will lose $7 million in state funds. A local lawmaker has proposed a bill to give the students a break, but few here are optimistic given California's budget crisis.
JULIE GOBIN, CHINO VALLEY UNIFIED SCHOOL DIST.: We're hoping for a little common sense. This is a tough time in California and the amount that it's going to cost us to hold these sessions for these students is just money that's desperately needed elsewhere.
WIAN: The cost about $200,000 for a district that has already closed three schools and laid off 172 teachers.
(on camera): Some parents are refusing to participate. The school district says it expects only about half of the 500 students to complete the extended school year. The district also says it is changing its computer procedures to make sure the same mistake does not happen again.
Casey Wian, CNN, Chino, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Up next, more on the surprise admission from Senator Ensign -- also tonight, so much for promised transparency and openness. The White House like its predecessor, denying press access to visitor lists.
And partisan politics and the CIA, harsh accusations from the nation's intelligence director Leon Panetta aimed at former Vice President Dick Cheney.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: CIA Director Leon Panetta tonight under criticism for drawing the CIA into partisan politics. In an interview Panetta said former Vice President Dick Cheney is quote, "almost wishing the U.S. would be attacked again in order to make his point", end quote.
Panetta's remarks raising new questions about the politization of the nation's intelligence organization. Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The CIA doesn't traditionally look for a public role in a political debate. But CIA Director Leon Panetta went public in an interview with the "New Yorker" magazine when he suggested that former Vice President Dick Cheney's criticism of the Obama approach to terrorism is quote, "almost as if he is wishing that this country would be attacked again in order to make his point."
The CIA director was responding to Cheney's repeated claim that President Obama's policies are making the country less safe. Senator John McCain criticized the CIA director for his political comment telling FOX News "this statement of Director Panetta is so uncalled for and unfortunate. He knows better. He is not a new guy to this town."
The CIA director earlier this year was drawn into another partisan fight by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who charged that the CIA misled her about the use of waterboarding. Panetta at that time said, "Political debate over interrogation reached a new decibel level yesterday." Ronald Kessler author of more than half a dozen books on intelligence services and the CIA says the CIA in previous decades was publicity shy.
RONALD KESSLER, AUTHOR, "THE CIA AT WAR": Under CIA director Richard Helms they had a CIA guy whose whole mission in life was to say no comment. So things have changed incredibly. And no, this is certainly not good for the CIA to be drawn into these controversies.
PILGRIM: But Kessler says chimes have changed.
KESSLER: Leon Panetta's comments about what Dick Cheney had to say about Obama and the war on terror certainly crossed that bridge into a political arena.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Former CIA officials told us today that historically the agency has tried to keep a low profile and the CIA chief rarely engaged in political debate. Panetta's spokesman tried to clarify the statements to CNN saying that the CIA director did not say that he wants another attack. Lou?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Kitty, thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
Joining me now are three of the country's best radio talk show hosts from KHOW in Denver, Peter Boyles, Guy Lambert from Washington, D.C., here in New York WOR's John Gambling. Gentlemen, good to have you with us.
Let's get it started, Peter, was that an adequate explanation from the CIA director on the issue of partisan politics in your judgment?
PETER BOYLES, KHOW IN DENVER: No, but the white house and the CIA have been at loggerheads in the past, actually since the creation of the CIA, back to the days of the OSS they were always right hand or left jab through Eisenhower, this is nothing new except it shows you the battle line. What I'm fascinated is George W. Bush stands on the sidelines as boss and says nothing. DOBBS: Guy, turning to health care for just a moment, you say your listeners are supporting the president here on the issue of health care reform. How could you support something that no one knows what it is yet?
GUY LAMBERT, WHFS WASHINGTON: Well, that's the issue. And that's what we're going to continue to see for the next several weeks if not several months. Look, nothing in this country or in this world per se is free or comes free, including the president's health care program. The fact of the matter is that the president said some $600 billion would be diverted from Medicare and Medicaid over the next ten years, an additional $4 billion with income from the American taxpayer, particularly from the middle class, something the president said would not happen while campaigning. Yesterday while speaking to the AMA which I might add is not an easy crowd to speak to. But the president is an affable type of guy. The majority of our listeners agree that our kids need to go outside and exercise. The president also said a number of Americans need to quit smoking. Well I agree with that. But when it's mandated by the federal government, that's an issue, sir, I think that's what a number of people are really beginning to fear since the president made that speech.
JOHN GAMBLING, WOR IN NEW YORK: What's the difference then about mandating national health care or national insurance policy? It's exactly the same thing. I think this health insurance program that the president's got on the table here and I agree, there's not a lick of information here. He keeps saying that we're going to reduce the cost of health care, he hasn't mentioned once how we're going to do that. Not one item.
DOBBS: Well, Charlie Wrangle, the man who's going to have a lot to say about what it costs, we're talking about $400 billion in reduced services, 600 million in taxes and by the count of most folks, that's just about half the price of the total deal.
GAMBLING: It's going to run at least $3 trillion over the next ten years, I think.
BOYLES: But here's the interesting part of this, Lou. Once the government says it's going to take care of you, it's going to tell you what and how you have to be behave. If anybody doesn't think so, it's historic. I mean once again, if I'm going to take care of you and take care of your medical needs, I'm going to tell you how to live your life.
DOBBS: There's one number Peter that I think everyone needs to focus on. And that number is 60 percent of the voter in the United States now receive more money from the federal government than they pay in taxes. That's almost irresistible numbers.
BOYLES: We're asking for a --
DOBBS: I'm not sure I followed that migration.
BOYLES: I'm just talking about size and cost.
DOBBS: Oh, okay.
BOYLES: It's going to be unbelievable and if people think there's something free about national health care, they're out of their minds.
DOBBS: Senator Tom Coburn made it pretty clear, there's a lot of room for better management in the stimulus package. And I love the fact that Robert Gibbs, the white house press secretary dismissed it all as having already been dealt with. What is your reaction?
LAMBERT: We seen to see that day in and day out. Under George W. Bush, the deficit increased from $5 trillion to $10 trillion. What folks need to realize is that the current yellow brick road we're heading down now that Mr. Obama has presented thus far, what we're seeing is that the deficit will actually double from $10 trillion to $20 trillion. Those are some really huge numbers that folks need to really sit down and think about. That issue needs to be addressed sometime in the near future rather than later.
GAMBLING: You talk about the federal government running things. The government can't run programs like this. They just can't do it. I don't know if you saw the story yesterday about the cell phone program for the poor where there's a government program that will give you cell phone service. This government pays the company that does this $10 a month for $3 worth of service. They pay $10 for $3 worth of service.
DOBBS: Wow. And you're being skeptical about whether the government can run a business.
GAMBLING: Call me silly.
DOBBS: We're not going to do that, but we're going to call you back in just a moment as we continue in just a moment.
Also ahead, the proposal to tax health insurance that you already have feels good doesn't it? And our face-off debate tonight. We'll address whether religion has its proper place in the debate over health care. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We're back with our panel and if I may, David Letterman finally apologizing to Governor Sarah Palin and her family. For his distasteful what some are calling a joke. What's your reaction? Has there been a double standard here in both the time it's taken him to apologize for offending her, or her daughter? And in the view of governor Palin, women all over the country.
LAMBERT: I think for the most part, David Letterman did the right thing. In my case, in my opinion, he became a standup guy. He apologized for what he said. Obviously he claims that he didn't really write the joke, that he was making a comment about Bristol Palin, the governor's 18-year-old daughter, but to actually say I'm sorry and to say it seriously the second go around, I think he deserves a lot of credit for that. Should he have said that to begin with? Heck no, you leave family, you leave wives and kids out of it. So Sarah Palin did get her just due with David Letterman actually apologizing to her. What's going to be interesting though. It really is into an issue, to really campaign on sometime in the near future.
DOBBS: Peter?
BOYLES: Children are off limits. Letterman was out of line, apology or not. He should haven't done it in the first place, he has writers and the writers write the gags. But I thought it was distasteful. If I'm Sarah Palin, you know, you live with it. But it was out of line.
DOBBS: You live with it. But in terms of the way the media handled it and their reaction.
GAMBLING: David Letterman, you don't want to cross David Letterman, you don't want to be on his bad side. The main stream media sort of let it slide and it was against Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin was the punching bag of the liberal media.
DOBBS: So you're saying it's evident of a liberal bias of the national media?
GAMBLING: I think you can argue that, absolutely.
DOBBS: But you're not arguing that.
GAMBLING: I don't make as much of this as some other people have.
DOBBS: How about you, Guy?
LAMBERT: No, I'm not going to argue it as well. I think that it's water under the bridge. I think we're beating a dead horse to be honest with you, and that's just my opinion. I think Sarah Palin will evolve from this and will move on as well David Letterman.
DOBBS: And how about Peter?
BOYLES: It's a lesson. It's more than enough, it's dead, I agree.
DOBBS: It's so rare that we see such a grave side ceremony over such comments. Thank you very much, Peter, we appreciate it, Guy, thank you. Thank you very much.
LAMBERT: Lou, always a pleasure.
DOBBS: Up next we'll be taxing your health care benefits and the role of religion in the health care debate. Liberals sounding like conservatives and conservatives don't necessarily like that. That's the subject of our face-off debate. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congress tonight is considering a number of tax options to pay for health care reform. But one idea under consideration, unprecedented. And that is to tax health insurance that you obtain through your job. Brianna Keilar with the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How do you pay for a trillion dollar health care overhaul? One idea congress is considering, taxing employer provided health benefits. Millions of Americans get health care through their jobs. The average cost of a premium is $13,000. It's a benefit employees get tax free keeping $226 billion in potential revenue out of the U.S. treasury.
JONATHAN GRUBER, ECONOMIST, MIT: It certainly is a natural place to look for the money you need to cover the uninsured.
KEILAR: Congress would put a limit on the value of benefits you would get tax free say $13,000 and you would be taxed on any amount over that cap. If your premium costs $15,000 you would be taxed on the $2,000 difference. Max Baucus Democratic chairman of the finance committee could propose a form of the tax soon. But many Democrats oppose it, including Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd who's pushing his own health care bill.
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: I think it's going to be a point of tremendous frustration for a lot of Americans. The costs are mounting and the idea of leveling a tax on them at this time here I don't think will be met very favorably.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: President Obama also favors taxing those health benefits. He slammed Senator McCain when he said he would do just that. But he's running into opposition from Democrats on that idea as well.
Brianna Keilar, CNN, Capitol Hill.
DOBBS: Congressional Republicans for their part today proposed a centrist approach to healthcare reform as they call it, a less expensive alternative to the Democratic plan which would cost somewhere around a trillion dollars over the next decade. The role of religion also rising to the surface of the health care debate and that is the topic of tonight's face-off.
Joining me now Tony Perkins, he's the president of the Family Research Council. Tony good to have you with us and the Reverend Jim Wallis, president and executive director of a Christian social justice organization. It's great to have you both with us. How in the world is god and politics moving to the center of a debate on national health care reform? If I may Reverend start with you?
REV. JIM WALLIS, FOUNDER & PRES., SOUIJOURNERS: The community of faith should never be involved in the weeds, policy weeds, but there's a fundamental moral issue here, 50 million Americans don't have health care coverage. And a lot of those are low income families, middle income families. On the way over here, Lou, I got a voicemail from a friend who said he's only 38. He said my wife this morning got diagnosed with lymphoma cancer. He's terrified yet he has health insurance. Imagine if he didn't have health insurance, he and his wife. So this is an injustice.
So we have to fight, we have to achieve coverage for all those folks who don't have it. That's a moral issue. We won't get involved in all of the details of policy. But the moral issue has to be front and center here.
DOBBS: Tony Perkins?
TONY PERKINS, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, Lou, there's no question that we have a health care problem in America. In fact, for many families it's a crisis. But we need a common sense approach that will make sure that those truly in need will be covered and that our health care stays patient-centered and not government-centered. And that's what's at question here. And I think what we're seeing in this debate is -- and I appreciate what Jim says. I agree, now I take issue with the 40 million. It's really 43 million that do not have health insurance, not health coverage. Health insurance because we actually have 80 percent at a CDC report says 80 percent of poor children have public health care now. And my home state of Louisiana, we actually are one of the few states that have kind of a two-track system. We have a public health care system that runs parallel to the private system. And I'll tell you, it is fraught with problems. And I'm fearful of what will happen if we go to a one size government health care program.
WALLIS: But we're not.
DOBBS: I'm sorry?
PERKINS: That's what's being pushed. That's what's being pushed is a government-mandated. No, it is, that's what we're talking about.
WALLIS: We haven't had health care reform for years because before the debate there's a lot of scare tactics going on. This proposal is about people having choices. Keep your own doctor, keep your health care if you want it. If you don't have a health care plan, you can choose another plan. So there's choice here. This is not a government plan, government-control plan. There's a choice here.
DOBBS: May I ask, Reverend Wallis, where are you getting your details on the plan since the administration hasn't put it forward?
WALLIS: Well, that's right. All there are ideas and bills, but I've heard that's going to talk about a government-controlled plan. All the ideas I've heard from everywhere are how we can really get give people choices. A lot of Americans who have insurance, Lou, as you know, they're working families and they're underinsured.
PERKINS: That sounds very good, Jim. That sounds good, but we see through Medicare and Medicaid that once the government pays the bill, it calls the shots. And what we're looking at in the -- the president's very defensive, this isn't socialized medicine, but a single payer system. It calls the one shots, one-size fits all. I don't know if you've ever had one of those hospital gowns, they're one-sized fits all and important things left uncovered. And that's what will happen with a health care plan.
WALLIS: That's not true. It's talking about health insurance companies are not insuring people with preexisting conditions. So you want to give people a choice so they can get their health care needs met.
PERKINS: And that's true. We need accessibility, affordability, portability, and transparency. And there's ideas like allowing people to go across state lines and create pools for insurances that can bring down the cost, we don't need the government to run it.
DOBBS: The government shouldn't run it, no one's suggesting that.
PERKINS: Go ahead, you can talk, it's your show.
DOBBS: Thank you, gentlemen. What do you think of the congressional proposal put forward by some that would create a health care cooperative, much like rural utilities? Is this an acceptable public option coverage that within the --
PERKINS: It's an intriguing idea.
DOBBS: Right.
PERKINS: It's an intriguing idea. It depends on how it's going to be managed. Is it going to be managed from a national level, from a state level, or a community level? And also, Lou, it comes back to the question of if the government's going to pay. If they're going to pay the bills or even put in the seed money to get these going, they're going to define what the benefits are, and that's of great concern.
DOBBS: All right.
Proponents of -- let me ask this quickly if I may, Reverend. The president made it pretty clear that he doesn't believe he's talking about socialized medicine. But have you heard any proposals from the Obama administration or from Capitol Hill that will, in fact, reduce significantly health care costs, reduce the cost of healthcare insurance, indeed deal with the issue of separately health care insurance rather than control of, as some critics suggest the health care system per se.
WALLIS: There's two big issues here. One is coverage. We have to make sure, and Lou, as you know, the families who aren't covered are mostly working families. You know, Medicare covers those, the poorest. You know, Medicaid, but the working families are not covered. So we have to make sure those 47 million, 48 million, 50 million, whatever the number that they're covered. Second, we have to contain -- PERKINS: The majority --
WALLIS: The skyrocketing health care. The costs have to be contained. That's a moral issue too. Too many people are making too much money in the system, and we have to slow that down. So coverage and then cover the costs. We all need it. Those are both moral issues.
DOBBS: All right, Tony Perkins and Jim Wallis, we thank you both for being here. As we have moral issues to contemplate in what is already a fairly sufficiently complex issue to begin with. Thank you both so much. Thank you.
Coming up at the top of the hour, Campbell Brown. What are you working on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, Lou. Tonight we're going to have more on the crackdown that is underway in Iran as these massive protests continue in the wake of the presidential election. But our question, is President Obama doing all he can to back the reformers? Also we'll hear from the U.S. senator who has just admitted he had an extramarital affair.
Plus our great debate tonight. Should students get cash for good grades? And the booming drug business going on here at home. Pot gardens growing in national parks. We'll take you there at the top of the hour.
Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you.
And up next here, tonight's poll results straight ahead.
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DOBBS: Tonight's poll results, 95 percent of you support an investigation into the firing of the inspector general of Americorps. And let's take a look at your thoughts.
Kenneth in Michigan said, "Change, change, change. Bailouts, bonuses for bank CEOs, cabinet appointments for tax cheats, take over banks, takeover of government motors, Gitmo terrorists sent on vacation in the Bahamas. Where can I sign up?"
And Janet in Ohio, "Obama campaigned, citizens should get the same health insurance that congress gets from the taxpayers. I don't hear him saying that now as he's president."
Send us your thoughts to loudobbs.com, we appreciate hearing from you. Each of you whose e-mail is read receives a copy of my book "Independence Day."
And a reminder to join me on the radio Monday through Fridays on the Lou Dobbs show, in New York each afternoon on WOR 710 radio. Get the local listings of the show in your area. We thank you for watching, good night from New York. Now "Campbell Brown."
