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Lou Dobbs Tonight
U.S. Meddling; Growing Turmoil in Iran; Global Bailout; Dreamliner Delayed; California Chaos
Aired June 17, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf.
Tonight, Iran accuses the United States of fueling that nation's unrest and bloodshed. We'll have the Obama administration's response as those demonstrations in Iran grow even larger.
Also, the national media may finally be doing its job reporting on what is going on in Washington. But is the government controlling too much of what you see and hear? We'll have some of the answers in our "Face Off" debate tonight.
Also tonight -- Boeing's ultra modern jet, the Dreamliner, turning into a nightmare -- we'll report on the hard lessons of outsourcing and what the rest of corporate America may learn tonight before they rush to ship American jobs overseas.
And an exclusive behind-the-scenes look at President Barack Obama. Award-winning journalist Richard Wolffe, author of "Renegade: The Making of a President," will join us.
We begin tonight with breaking news on the growing political unrest in Iran. Hundreds of thousands of Iranians demonstrated today in the capital city of Tehran. This, the largest antigovernment rally since Friday's election -- Iran blaming the United States for that turmoil and accusing the United States of quote "meddling" in its internal affairs.
That accusation coming just a day after President Obama said he would not meddle in Iran's affairs. But President Obama is under increasing pressure, both at home and abroad, to speak out more forcefully against the Iranian government. Ed Henry has our report from Washington. Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, as you noted, a dramatic allegation from Tehran today that the U.S. is meddling and that is what is causing the tension there on the ground in Iran. That allegation shot down this afternoon by White House spokesman Robert Gibbs. He insists the U.S. is not meddling with Iran and that in fact he believes the president is striking the right tone so far in terms of expressing support for the dissidents, but not trying to interfere in Iranian affairs.
Nevertheless, as you noted, there is still pressure on this president to speak out more forcefully. That's one reason why Secretary of State Hillary Clinton today, when asked by reporters about the unfolding situation in Iran, she referred to some of the allegations out there that this election was not legitimate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: The people of Iran deserve the right to have their voices heard and their votes counted. The outcome of any election should reflect the will of the people, and it is for the Iranians to determine how they resolve this internal protest concerning the outcome of the recent election. But it is a fundamental value that the United States holds with respect to free and fair and credible elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: You can still see there the Obama administration walking a very careful line -- the rhetoric clearly more cautious than what we've heard from the same administration in their approach to North Korea. Just yesterday, for example, the president was in the Rose Garden with reporters, had very tough language for North Korea saying that there's been this cycle where they'll test a rocket, the world community will express outrage, may pass some sanctions, but then North Korea will just still behave badly.
The president vowed yesterday he will break that cycle with North Korea. Was very tough with his talk, very interesting though that with the rhetoric with Iran, perhaps because of the situation that's unfolded on the ground, it is much more cautious, Lou.
DOBBS: All right, thank you very much, Ed Henry.
It is interesting to note, as Ed Henry suggested, the very personal tone that President Obama has taken when discussing the situation in Iran. World leaders often use the words "we," "us," "our" when representing their countries and their governments. But when President Obama recently was asked about his reactions to Iran at the White House press conference, just yesterday, he used personal pronouns, "I," "me," "my," more than 13 times.
President Obama is of course under increasing pressure over his no-meddling response on Iran's election aftermath. As protesters in Iran prepare for another day of demonstrations, there is a growing debate here on just what the president's response should be. Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): President Bush was the idealist in world affairs.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.
SCHNEIDER: President Obama is the realist.
OBAMA: The use of tough, hard-headed diplomacy, diplomacy with no illusions, about Iran and the nature of the differences between our two countries, is critical when it comes to pursuing a core set of our national security interests.
SCHNEIDER: But the president is under enormous pressure to speak out in support of the pro democracy protesters in Iran.
OBAMA: I think it would be wrong for me to be silent about what we've seen on the television over the last few days.
SCHNEIDER: So he has spoken out, cautiously.
OBAMA: It is not productive given the history of U.S.-Iranian relations to be seen as meddling, the U.S. president meddling in Iranian elections.
SCHNEIDER: Too cautiously, say his critics.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We're not meddling in any country's affairs when we call for free and fair elections and the ability of people to exercise their human rights.
SCHNEIDER: But a former CIA operative who has written a book about the U.S. and Iran says...
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: McCain is absolutely wrong. He's incredibly wrong. I just can't believe he said that. The last thing the Iranians need now, the Democrats, is American interference in their elections in any form.
SCHNEIDER: In the end, President Obama needs to negotiate with the hardliners.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is committed to direct engagement with the Iranian government on issues of our national interest, including their pursuit of nuclear weapons, and their sponsorship for terror.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Still, it is ironic that this president who leads his own idealistic political movement -- yes, we can -- finds him on -- himself on the defensive for being too cautious about Iran. Of course, he might argue that it was President Bush's idealism that got the U.S. in trouble in the world. Lou?
DOBBS: At the same time, Bill, it is unusual to see a president refer to "meddling" in the affairs of another nation before that other nation even has a rejoinder to criticism the way in which it's dealing with unrest surrounding a questionable election, a very peculiar sequence of circumstance. And what does that suggest about the policy, which, after all, is the reality that will be the expression of U.S. policy?
SCHNEIDER: I think what it suggests is that Iran has for decades now, ever since the 1979 Revolution, and even before that, accused the United States of meddling in their affairs. That's one of the arguments that the Iranian regime uses to remain in power, that they're there to protect the Iranian country, the government, their religion from U.S. meddling which they argue is aimed at bringing down their regime.
DOBBS: So no change is expected then on the part of the Obama administration vis-a-vis Iran.
SCHNEIDER: Well, the most important change that's expected is negotiations to try to end the Iranian nuclear weapons program and end their support of terrorism. That's going to be very tough. But that is this administration's objective.
DOBBS: All right, Bill, thank you very much -- Bill Schneider from Washington.
North Korea today responded to calls to end its nuclear weapons program -- North Korea promising what it called a one thousand-fold- retaliation with merciless military strikes against nations that threaten its sovereignty. In Washington, South Korea's president said South Korea will not allow nuclear weapons in the north.
President Obama again saying the United States plans serious enforcement of sanctions against North Korea, including confronting, but not boarding, North Korean ships.
Russia and communist China today urging North Korea to restart talks over its nuclear program -- China and Russia are members of the U.N. Security Council and have resisted tougher sanctions against North Korea. But after the north's nuclear test last month, both Beijing and Moscow are now joining the call for stricter sanctions.
Up next here, serious charges in Congress tonight that President Obama has put our troops in needless danger because of a political deal struck with Democrats.
And one of the country's biggest corporations, Boeing, learning an expensive lesson about the high cost of outsourcing American jobs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The bill to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is on its way to the Senate after narrowly passing in the House of Representatives last night. Critics in the House oppose the legislation because it provides more than $100 billion for the International Monetary Fund.
Republicans who voted against it accuse the Obama administration of cutting a deal with congressional Democrats, a deal they say could lead to the release of detainee photos and put our troops in danger -- Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The House vote on the nearly $106 billion war spending supplemental was very close -- 226-202. All but five Republicans voted against it. Conservative critics oppose a $5 billion provision added to the bill. It would be used to secure a line of credit so the IMF can borrow $108 billion from the U.S. Treasury to help other countries. White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the support was necessary.
GIBBS: This is important relief to ensure that we have strong global trade. I don't think given where we are in the world economy that we would want to see a pull-back in that commitment.
SYLVESTER: Fiscal hawks like Pete Sepp of the National Taxpayers Union says it is a global bailout on top of the billions already spent to rescue Wall Street, the auto industry, AIG and others.
PETE SEPP, NATIONAL TAXPAYERS UNION: All that's happening here is that U.S. taxpayers who are already broke are paying even more borrowed money in order to keep other nations from going broke.
SYLVESTER: House Minority Leader John Boehner's office says the White House quote "log-rolled Democrats" to get the IMF provision through. Republicans charging that to win the support of the most liberal Democrats, a provision was removed from the bill that would have banned the release of photos of purported abuse of detainees by members of the U.S. military.
Senator Jim DeMint echoed the sentiment calling the IMF funding a back-room deal. The White House did not respond to Republican charges. Twenty Democrats who voted against the war funding bill just last month voted for the war supplemental with the IMF funding included and the detainee photo ban out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Now the White House may have appeased some of the more liberal elements in the Democratic Party by taking out the measure that would have banned the release of the detainee photos, but that has made others uneasy. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham is among them. He said today that he has received re-assurance from the White House that they will keep the detainee photos from ever being released, and possibly by an executive order. Lou?
DOBBS: Nonetheless, the Graham-Lieberman amendment eliminated from that legislation without further explanation. Lisa, thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester.
Well communist China blasting the buy-American provision when it was added to the economic stimulus package earlier this year. The official Chinese news agency called that provision quote "poison." But today Chinese government officials ordered a buy-China provision in its own economic stimulus package.
A Chinese government order saying all stimulus projects must use Chinese-made products and services and permission must be first obtained before any imported goods or services can be considered for purchase.
We'd like to know what you think about all of this. Our poll question tonight -- are you surprised communist China has a buy-China provision? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
The tough economic environment is setting the tone at the Paris air show. Three days into that event, Boeing finally signed its first order for two 737 passenger jets. Boeing is facing angry customers over delivery of its new aircraft, the 787 Dreamliner. The aircraft is now two years behind schedule. Much of the manufacturing was outsourced. Ines Ferre has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Paris air show this week, one of Boeing's top executives said the 787 Dreamliner will take its first test flight at the end of June. Nearly two years behind schedule.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to see it, we believe, by the end of the month as we have been saying. The technical issues are largely all behind us.
FERRE: The company says its most advanced and fuel-efficient plane was delayed because of a supply chain learning curve. Large chunks of the aircraft were outsourced. By industry standards, the 787 is the largest outsourcing commercial project of its size.
Analysts estimate anywhere between 70 percent and 75 percent of its production was sent abroad to companies in Japan, South Korea, Italy, Britain, France, Germany and Sweden. Gary Weissel is a consultant specializing in aviation program management.
GARY WEISSEL, AVIATION CONSULTANT: Anything that you outsource to multiple partners takes an enormous amount of coordination and expertise in terms of program management. I think you know Boeing obviously had an enormous task on its hands.
FERRE: Union leaders in Seattle have been critical of the massive outsourcing. They hope a lesson has been learned.
TOM WROBLEWSKI, INTL. MACHINISTS UNION: The aerospace worker is a very skilled worker and it's not just something that you can go to another region, another state and expect to get it done cheaper and quicker. Let's keep the work where you have the skilled workforce, where you have generations of knowledge.
FERRE: Boeing has announced it plans to eliminate some 10,000 jobs across the company. The vast majority of its workers are in the U.S.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FERRE: And Boeing says that for now the basic production model they used for the Dreamliner is the one they'll continue to use for that aircraft. They've made some minor adjustments to it, but in general they feel that it's the way to go, Lou.
DOBBS: All right, Ines, thank you very much -- Ines Ferre. To hear my thoughts on this issue and a number of other issues, please join me Monday through Fridays on the radio for "The Lou Dobbs Show" 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. each and every afternoon on WOR 710 Radio in New York City and go to loudobbsradio.com to get the local listings in your area for "The Lou Dobbs Show" on the radio and we'd like to hear from you. Please go to Twitter and tweet me at Lou Dobbs News -- that's loudobbsnews@twitter.com.
Up next here a major snag in the push for health care reform, we'll have that story. And California's lawmakers, well they say they're trying to close the state's massive budget deficit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will see all kinds of forces in Sacramento scrambling and doing the kabuki.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The state is less than six weeks away from not being able to pay any of its bills.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well consequences in Washington, D.C. today -- Senator John Ensign stepping down from a key Senate leadership post. That move coming a day after the senator admitted to an extramarital affair with a married campaign staffer. Ensign was chairman of the Republican Policy Committee.
That is the fourth-highest ranking leadership position among Republicans in the Senate. Senator Ensign was seen as a rising star in the party. His name had been mentioned as a possible candidate, in fact, for the presidency in 2012.
President Obama today unveiled what he called a sweeping overhaul of the financial regulatory system. The president's plan would re- order the role of key agencies, responsibilities of the Federal Reserve and the Treasury would be expanded. There would be tough capital requirements for large financial institutions.
And a new consumer protection agency would be created for the financial industry. He would oversee mortgage and credit card practices, and most of the president's proposals have to be approved by Congress.
Chaos in California tonight -- the "Golden State" seems to be edging closer to bankruptcy. Democrats in Sacramento want to raise taxes. Governor Schwarzenegger wants to cut jobs and salaries. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Californians already pay state income tax rates as high as 10 percent. In many cities, sales taxes also approach 10 percent. Now Democratic state lawmakers are proposing nearly $2 billion in new taxes to close the state's $24 billion budget deficit.
NOREEN EVANS (D), CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY: We are going to be discussing new revenue options today in conference.
WIAN: Those revenue options include new taxes and fees on oil production, automobile registration, cigarettes and other tobacco products. In February, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and the state legislature agreed to the largest tax increase in California history.
ROGER NIELLO (R), CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY: This economy just doesn't have the capacity to absorb any more of that and we're just going to have to downsize government to get us through this difficult period.
WIAN: But Democrats who control the state legislature rejected a proposal by Schwarzenegger to reduce state employee salaries by five percent. In a statement, the governor said, "it's outrageous that the legislature would ask Californians to pay higher taxes but refuse to cut the pay of state workers by five percent. This is exactly why so many Californians have lost faith in Sacramento's ability to solve problems."
Another reason he says is the state's propensity to use accounting gimmicks to postpone tough choices. For example, the Assembly Budget Committee this week voted for a one-day delay in the next monthly payday for state workers, from June 30th to July 1st. That way, about $1.2 billion in salary expenses will shift from this fiscal year's budget to next year's.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: In the coming days and in the coming weeks you will see all kinds of forces in Sacramento scrambling and doing the kabuki and the song and dance up there, desperately trying to avoid reality and to avoid this day of reckoning.
WIAN: The day of reckoning when California won't be able to pay its bills is less than six weeks away.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Governor Schwarzenegger today said he will veto any budget-cutting deal that includes new tax increases. But Democrats in the legislature are trying to undo some of the governor's proposed cuts in spending for social services. A showdown is likely next week, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much Casey -- Casey Wian.
Well other stories we're following tonight -- the Miami priest who shocked his followers by admitting to breaking his vows of celibacy is tonight a married man. Court papers show Father Alberto Cutie married his girlfriend of the past two years. The ceremony was performed by a judge in Coral Gables, Florida. Cutie left the Catholic Church last month after his affair was exposed. He joined the Episcopal Church. A New York man tonight is under arrest. He's accused of impersonating his dead mother in order to collect her Social Security benefits. Thomas Parken is seen here on a Department of Motor Vehicles security camera wearing a wig and sunglasses as he posed as his mother who died six years ago. Investigators say the scam netted $700 a month in Social Security, plus nearly $40,000 to help pay for an apartment. Parken faces 47 counts of fraud and as much as 25 years in prison.
DNA tests show that a man in Michigan may be a New York child who disappeared 54 years ago. In 1955, a woman went to a bakery on Long Island, leaving her baby boy and girl in the stroller outside. When she returned, the children were gone. The girl was found in the stroller around the corner, but nearly 2-year-old boy was missing. A man contacted Long Island police claiming he is that child and preliminary DNA tests show the probability is that he's right in that claim.
Up next -- President Obama announces a major change for gay and lesbian federal employees -- also ahead, a major snag for health care reform and in our "Face Off" debate tonight the issue of whether President Obama is being given a free ride from the mainstream media.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well the mainstream media in this country has been accused of showing a bias for President Obama and his administration. ABC News yesterday announced they will air four of their principle broadcasts, including "World News Tonight" from the White House for what they call a quote "conversation with the president" about health care. Some say ABC is trading credibility for access and that the White House is successfully controlling the debate by controlling the national media.
The president's relationship with the media is the topic of our "Face-Off" debate tonight. And joining me are William McGurn -- he's a columnist for "The Wall Street Journal" -- great to have you with us. And Joe Conason, columnist for Salon.com -- great to have you with us Joe.
JOE CONASON, SALON.COM: Thank you.
DOBBS: Let's -- let's take a look at the latest numbers that reflect ostensibly at least the empirical evidence and that is the survey by the Pew Research Center -- if we could put that up to show the president's press versus both Clinton and Bush. Percentage of positive stories over the first 60 days, Obama 42 percent, Bush 22 percent, Clinton 27 percent. Almost as many positive stories as both Bush and Clinton. What does that suggest to you?
WILLIAM MCGURN, COLUMNIST, WALL ST. JOURNAL: Well, I think if you look back at the campaign and Saturday Night Live doing the skit or then-candidate Obama and candidate Clinton, I think you see a certain amount of cheerleading there.
DOBBS: Do you disagree, Joe, as I might suspect? CONASON: Well, I would disagree up to a point. I think actually the media tends to follow, especially the mainstream media, follow the popularity of the candidate. So there were times when President Bush got very soft coverage and there was breast-beating among the press about that. And now we have the flip situation. When Bush was president, liberals complained that he was getting a free ride in the media for a lot of the time. And he did, especially in the run up to the Iraq war. I think people agree about that now. Now conservatives are complaining that Obama is being treated too softly in the media and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's very popular. He is very popular with the public. I think when you see his family, for instance, on the cover of "People" magazine or "Rolling Stone" or any of these other publications, that's because that's what people are buying. They're interested --
DOBBS: And you're quite comfortable with popularity as a primary determinant here?
CONASON: Well, actually, if I were a conservative I should be because it is a reflection of the market. But I think the president hasn't done anything to deserve to be particularly unpopular. No, I don't have a big problem with that.
DOBBS: All right, the vice president of the "San Francisco Chronicle" recently wrote an article, I suspect both of you have read, called "Love or Lust." Obama and the Fawning Press need to get a room. He said if we may put this up as we have. "This guy is good. Really good. Frankly, so far we're not. You can't blame powerful people for wanting to play the press to peddle self-perpetuating mythology but you can blame the press for being played. The Obama press dance is a more consensual seduction where in the old-fashioned sense we're the girl." One could talk about the awkwardness and appropriateness of the metaphor. The point is very clear.
CONASON: You know, I think you have to take this on a case-by- case basis, Lou. For example, at salon.com where I write a column every week, I would say generally salon has been supportive of President Obama starting back when he was running for president. On the other hand, many columns run in salon that are knocking him, knocking his administration, knocking the economic policies, knocking the favoritism towards certain banks, knocking him on transparency and a lot of other issues. So I think let's take it case by case.
MCGURN: Yeah, I'd take it case by case. Last week I was writing on a specific issue, the issue of jobs saved. I don't think the press needs to be hostile. This idea that it either has to be hostile or fawning. But I think it needs to hold the white house to account. This job saved number is a macro economic estimate that has a lot of validity if we're a bunch of economists debating. But to use that --
DOBBS: Well, may I argue with that? I think even with economists debating it, it wouldn't have much validity.
MCGURN: Not in the political sphere. No. But among themselves it is a useful tool. But to use that as an actual data point is very misleading. He's basically gotten a pass on that. CONASON: I don't know if he's gotten a pass, Lou, if you don't mind.
DOBBS: I revel in your disagreement and critical judgment.
CONASON: Well, I looked up just to see whether there were examples of anybody criticizing him and I found stories that were critical of that data point in the AP, NPR'S website, CBS Evening News, the "L.A. Times" had a big story saying this is not to be taken seriously. "The Washington Post" --
DOBBS: You're referring to the 3 million to 4 million jobs either saved or created, or talking about a more recent statement --
CONASON: The more recent one. 150,000. Right.
DOBBS: Going back to the earlier point, almost without critical judgment applied -- had is what I was arguing with bill about economists coming together and convening around the idea that anyone could reliably talk about jobs saved or created in 155 million-job economy, and correctly ascribe to which job one has been saved and one had been created.
MCGURN: There have been some critical asides. But it has been largely reported -- and this is just, you know, pure fiction to take an estimate that hasn't changed. There are other estimates about the economy proved wildly inaccurate. As we expect estimates to be. But you can't have it both ways. They haven't changed their job estimates, they're using the same formula before and after and it is just fiction, it doesn't exist anywhere except for paper.
DOBBS: It is interesting that the three of us as journalists who at various points in our careers talked about rosy scenarios, they always seem to emanate from the white house an never some external source. Why should this white house be different and why have we not heard more about rosy scenario?
CONASON: But see, Lou, I think you have. I think there's been a significant amount of criticism --
DOBBS: I always like it, Joe, when you alter my perception.
CONASON: I have to try. I think there's been a substantial amount of questioning with the white house as there ought to be with every white house. Press ought to be taking the rosy scenarios and saying what is the basis for this? And I would say we have not been bereft of that kind of questioning. The fact that the president has apparently a charming personality, people believe he is trying to do his best, all of these things serve to make it easier for him to put forth whatever argument he -- sure.
DOBBS: It contributes to his immense popularity.
CONASON: And by the way, the press is going to report what he and his advisers say, which is part of their job as well. The question is, what do they do -- DOBBS: Do you agree that's the job?
MCGURN: Well, I think the press is going to report it but I think they have to hold it up to scrutiny. And it's part of a pattern. Look, I don't blame white houses for doing this, but I do blame a soft reaction. There may be a caveat like in the "New York Times" article explaining "This is a macro estimate." I believe the same thing on the taxes, the tax cuts, where half the people -- it turns out to be the payroll tax. If we want to say that's a tax, that's fine. I'd be in favor of that but that changes the debate. Same as Paygo numbers.
DOBBS: David Cay Johnston said at "The New York Times," we saw mushy words go away and hard-headed mathematics and understanding of tax policy apply. To what degree is the quality of journalists contributing to what appears to some critics to be a suspension of critical judgment? Is that playing any role here, or is the claim that this is a focus of ideology and the result flows from that?
MCGURN: I don't want to suggest sweeping claims about bias or something. But I would say that there could be a little more skepticism. I don't think it's hard to contest that reporters as a group are more liberal than the general population. I've been on both sides of that table watching. I watched what the white house does and I watched the reaction. And it's been pretty soft at a time when we're spending $787 billion. That's a lot of money.
DOBBS: But getting back to my question, if I may. Are we going to the quality of journalism itself and the quality of journalists practicing the craft? Is there any part of this equation that we're trying to understand?
CONASON: I think we have some still very fine journalists. We have a lot fewer of them going forward, is one problem. Newspapers and other news organizations have fewer people to devote to these jobs, these tasks of reporting. But I don't think that's the issue. I think --
DOBBS: I didn't ask you that. As we're discussing this equation, it seems we agree it is part of the issue.
CONASON: I think it goes in cycles, Lou. I think we'll have a cycle now where the president is getting some kind of a money moon and you'll see tougher reporting on him as we go forward.
MCGURN: I'm waiting for the tougher reporting. I'll look forward to it.
DOBBS: We appreciate you both being here. We'll chronicle it together. How about that? Come back. Appreciate it. Thank you very much, Joe. Thank you.
Tomorrow right here on our show, our "face-off" debate, proposed legislation that would cut A.C.O.R.N.'s federal funding and exclude it from the 2010 census and political efforts to assure billions of dollars end up available to A.C.O.R.N. my guests will be Congressman Steve King who proposed the legislation, and Bertha Lewis, the CEO and chief organizer of A.C.O.R.N. we hope you'll join us.
Up next here, a major delay in congress tonight for one of the president's top priorities -- health care reform has hit a snag.
And same-sex benefits. What President Obama's stance means to gay and lesbian federal employees and who is immensely critical of the president's position. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A new book out tonight that takes us behind the scenes of candidate Barack Obama's race for the white house, "Renegade: The Making Of A President" by Richard Wolffe. Richard covered the Obama campaign for "Newsweek" magazine. He joins us here tonight to talk about -- there we have it up on the big screen, Richard.
RICHARD WOLFFE, AUTHOR, "RENEGADE": Very nice, thank you.
DOBBS: A best seller, "New York Times" best seller. Congratulations.
WOLFFE: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: It is a terrific book. And surprising accessibility.
WOLFFE: Yeah.
DOBBS: Granted. And the results are, I think, the best glimpse we've had of who this guy is that would be president.
WOLFFE: That's the story I was trying to get out. And it wasn't just because he had a thin resume or that he was new when he ran. We're used to seeing him on the stage in front of the adoring crowds but he likes to be on his own and keep himself obscure. I was trying to open that up with this book.
DOBBS: If I may say, you did so.
WOLFFE: Thank you.
DOBBS: The questions that sort of hang out there are still Michelle's reticence at the idea that this attractive, compelling candidate husband of hers would be a candidate for president comes through loud and clear. He had a lot of work to do there.
WOLFFE: To convince her. Right. She wanted to know I think if he'd take his weekends off and he said absolutely not. She thought you could be a father and a presidential candidate. I mean it was two years so he was going to be away for a long time and she really hadn't been involved in his campaigns before. She really didn't think politics was worth the effort. I mean she liked policy, but seeing him disappear to this game, this sort of trivial stuff she really didn't like. Having said that, she threw herself in and she's actually more competitive than him if you can believe that. She wanted to win badly. DOBBS: That I have a very hard time believing, to be really honest with you. As we look at this business about living above the company store, think is the expression, it is pretty clear he likes the arrangement. But he is also now beginning to bristle a bit, particularly a little uncomfortable with fox news not adoring him, a little the old skinny but tough line doesn't suffice when it comes to Iran and to North Korea. And you can see the man bristle a bit.
WOLFFE: Yeah. Well, look, when it comes to fox, it's interesting. I recount a story in the book where he sits down with Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes and says basically, back off my wife. They get into a good conversation, at least with Murdoch about his father. But with Roger Ailes, the situation turns bad pretty quickly. I don't think they've ever recovered. Pretty soon after that the "Post" came out and endorsed John McCain. They felt they got sandbagged. That one is going to be hard to repair, maybe even harder than getting the North Koreans to the table. I got you there.
DOBBS: I was going to say, let's hope they both end well. How about that? "Daily Beast" article today. You still have a very clearly close relationship to the Obama administration. Is that a fair statement?
WOLFFE: Well, I talk to them and report my findings to "The Daily Beast."
DOBBS: And your sense right now with this president, in five months, I can say this as a matter of objective fact in covering six presidents, I've never seen a president bring this energy, this kind of commitment to his daily job that this president has. Is there a building notion, as some have suggested, that the president is taking on too much, spreading himself across too many very difficult and deep issues?
WOLFFE: Inside the white house, I'll say he didn't have much choice. But look at health care. They said this would be a priority for the first term. They're doing it in the first year. I think it is a legitimate question. Can you make this much policy in a short space of time in a sensible way. They're running at an incredibly fast pace. Some things they don't have a choice about. Bailing out the car companies or dealing with the financial sector is one thing, but these people are incredibly ambitious. He said he wanted an impatient white house. That's what he's got.
DOBBS: And too much?
WOLFFE: Too much? Look, you're going to tell that in retrospect. I don't know.
DOBBS: All right, fair enough. Richard Wolffe, good to have you with us. Congratulations on the success of the book. The book is "Renegade." Thanks.
Up next, gay rights groups criticizing the president for not acting on his campaign promises. And tonight the president takes a step toward providing key benefits to same-sex couples. But apparently not enough.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congressional action on a sweeping health care reform bill tonight has stalled. Sources tell CNN that the Senate Finance Committee will now not vote on this legislation until after the July 4th recess. This delay say major setback for both the Democratic leadership and congress, and President Obama, who had demanded a bill be on his desk in July. They had wanted that bill out of committee before the recess, so they could have the entire month of July to debate health care reform. When President Obama and his supporters talk about the urgency of sweeping health care reform, they use a fairly impressive figure to make their point.
PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children.
DOBBS: Well, to be exact, 45.7 million is the number of people who told the census bureau that they do not have insurance, or did not at least at some point in 2007. The number was down from 47 million the year before.
But here is what, as best we can judge, what that number includes. 12 million people who are eligible for public health insurance program, including Medicaid or s-chip, or for whatever reason don't participate. And among the estimated 10 million non- citizens who lack health insurance, an estimated 7 million illegal aliens as well. Again, that number only an stilt. And some 7 million uninsured individuals, many of them young adults who earn at least $40,000 a year, and who may have chosen to not take health insurance because they thought they didn't need it.
Keep in mind, that the number, 46 million, refers to the number of people who say they've gone without health insurance at some point during the past year, when asked by the census bureau. Not necessarily the entire year. That figure, according to the Congressional Budget Office, is closer to 20 million to 30 million. And the number actually, without insurance, but in need of health care insurance, arguably, 10 million.
Well, this evening, President Obama signed an executive memorandum that extends federal employee benefits to same-sex couples. But for gay rights activists, the move is not enough, particularly since the president promised much more in his campaign. Dan Lothian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He made campaign promises vowing to knock down various discrimination. Now President Obama says this executive memorandum is a start.
OBAMA: We've got more work to insure that the government treats all citizens equal. To fight injustice and intolerance in all its forms and to bring about that more perfect union. LOTHIAN: Now, the president plans to offer the domestic partners of federal employees long-term insurance and health care benefits for their children. Bosses will be required to allow employees to take sick leave to care for them. And for the partners of Foreign Service employees, the use of medical facilities overseas, among other things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a matter of fairness.
LOTHIAN: Ed Horvath who worked full time for the Government Accountability Office, but with a husband over five years who battled pancreatic cancer, what this couple really wants is to share full health care benefits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like we're treated like second-class citizens.
RICHARD NEIDICH, DOMESTIC PARTNER OF FED. EMPLOYEE: To me, being treated fair on all issues is the fundamental issue that we're after to see resolved.
LOTHIAN: But health benefits, along with the other demands with the gay community, like repealing don't ask, don't tell and the defensive marriage act can only be done by congress.
ED HORVATH, FEDERAL EMPLOYEE: I'm disappointed that it can't go, and I understand the limitations on what he can do.
LOTHIAN: Now, there's pressure on the president to push hard.
JOE SOLMONESE, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: We must call on congress to give him that legislation that would provide health care benefits for domestic partners of former lows. That would complete the picture.
LOTHIAN: President Obama says he's committed to working with congress to repeal the so-called defensive act. And says he supports legislation in congress that provides full benefits for the same-sex domestic partners of federal employees.
Dan Lothian, CNN, the white house.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And in the state of California, leaders of the same-sex marriage unit say it is only a matter of time before they overturn California's proposition 8. Just weeks after the state Supreme Court upheld that ban on same-sex marriage, grassroots movements say they are more determined than ever to reverse it. Jessica Yellin has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Activists are marking the one-year anniversary of the day gays and lesbians were allowed to marry legally in California by vowing to reverse proposition 8. Prop 8 cast seven months ago made gay marriage legal in the state once again.
RICK JACOBS, COURAGE CAMPAIGN: It was a wake-up call. And in a very interesting way, one of the best things that's happened to the LGBT movement in a long time.
YELLIN: Rick Jacobs runs the pro same sex marriage courage campaign. He says members of his group believes prop 8 passed because progressives took their eyes off the balance and they want the issue back on the ballot next year. Now, they're taking a page from the Obama playbook. A year after the first election, they launched a ground campaign, already sending 1,000 volunteers to knock on doors in California.
JACOBS: Our job is to train people and go out and talk to people and tell stories and change minds.
YELLIN: His group isn't alone. Equality California, another same-sex marriage organization is about to air this ad targeting the African-American community which CNN polling shows overwhelmingly opposed gay marriage in California.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's totally unfair to take away anyone's rights.
MARC SOLOMON, EQUALITY CALIFORNIA: We want to show these images. Get people to help people get to know gay couples and their families and for conversation.
YELLIN: Leaders of the same-sex marriage movement say winning supporters will be difficult. They're hopeful that progressives energized by of the victory will make this their next campaign.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: And, Lou, perhaps, no surprise groups that oppose same- sex marriage say they are also gearing up for another fight. They expect another ballot initiative. And they're preparing their own door-to-door campaign to make sure proposition 8 remains alive in California. Lou.
DOBBS: Is that initiative that could come as early as next year?
YELLIN: As early as next year. They're debating exactly when they should go. But they believe they will do it probably next November in California.
DOBBS: All right. Jessica, thank you very much. Jessica Yellin reporting from Los Angeles.
Coming up at the top of the hour, Campbell Brown. Campbell?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, Lou.
Tonight, the president versus Fox News. Our big question is Fox News channel fair and balanced when it comes to covering Obama?
Also ahead, a Republican senator admits stepping out on his marriage. Which is worse, the affair or the hypocrisy?
And a drunk driver causes a deadly crash and gets just 30 days in jail. The driver happens to be an NFL star. Does that have anything to do with the sentence? We'll talk about that and more. Lou?
DOBBS: Campbell, thank you.
Up next here, tonight's poll results.
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DOBBS: Tonight's poll results. 96 percent say you are not surprised communist China has a "Buy China" provision.
Time now for just one quick e-mail.
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Thanks for being with us tonight. Good night from New York. Now, Campbell Brown.
