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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Obama's Speech; Obama's Ratings; ACORN Busted; Health Care for Illegals?

Aired September 14, 2009 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LOU DOBBS, HOST: Wolf, thank you very much.

Tonight President Obama telling Wall Street he wants them to shape up, a year after the colossal failure of Lehman Brothers triggering massive taxpayer bailouts. President Obama calling for tighter government control but offering no plan.

And what kind of bounce did the president receive from his big speech on health care? A new CNN poll shows some surprising positive results.

And another pimp and prostitute scandal at the left-wing activist organization ACORN, for a third time ACORN workers for the left-wing advocacy group caught on hidden camera breaking the law. Now calls from Congress to investigate and cut off public funding -- those calls are growing.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT; news, debate and analysis for Monday, September 14th. Live from New York, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening everybody. President Obama today went to Wall Street -- there he delivered a stern and some say toothless message to Wall Street. A year after the collapse of Lehman Brothers the president called it shameful that big executive bonuses are back while the economy continues to suffer.

President Obama blamed the financial crisis on lax government regulation and he is promising to revamp the rules, but today offered no specifics. Dan Lothian has our report from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Standing on the fault line that helped trigger a financial earthquake, President Obama delivered a warning to Wall Street.

BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those on Wall Street cannot resume taking risks without regard for consequences and expect that next time American taxpayers will be there to break their fall.

LOTHIAN: And he chided those with short memories who are, quote, "misreading this moment". OBAMA: Instead of learning the lessons of Lehman and the crisis from which we're still recovering, they're choosing to ignore those lessons.

LOTHIAN: The ground hasn't stopped shaking. Some banks are still under pressure and hundreds of thousands of Americans continue to get pink slips each month. But the president credited the $787 billion stimulus plan and swift action by his economic team with pulling the country back from another great depression.

OBAMA: The growing stability resulting from these interventions means we're beginning to return to normalcy. The storms of the past two years are beginning to break.

LOTHIAN: While the president is pushing to close loopholes, and proposing a new consumer financial protection agency to enforce new rules, one year later experts say, the financial system remains vulnerable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very little of what we need for the long term has been put in place yet.

LOTHIAN: But the risk of another collapse, he says, has been minimized, for now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bankers may be dumb, but they're not that dumb. There really has been a pullback of the amount of risk being taken. Things are being done more carefully. You don't usually have a crisis blowup when everybody's watching for it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: Douglas Elliott (ph), who is also a former investment banker says what really worries him is what happens over the next 10 to 15 years when you have a whole new set of players on Wall Street and across the banking system, will there be the kind of oversight in place to keep them in check -- Lou.

DOBBS: Will there be that oversight within the year?

LOTHIAN: Well, I mean, now we're in a year and there's still nothing on paper, as you've pointed out. So there's still a lot of questions about whether there be anything on paper within a year. And then there is the other issue -- if there's something on paper will that still prevent people from pedaling, you know, other products out there that will help them make more money.

DOBBS: All right, Dan, thank you -- Dan Lothian from the White House.

The public backlash against the government in full effect over the weekend. Americans marching on Washington, outraged by increased spending with cause of don't tread on me, you lie, and I'm not your ATM. Look at this crowd.

Now, there's been great discussion in Washington and in the mainstream media about how many people were filling up the mall and the streets of Washington, D.C. Saturday. But as you see there, it was at the very least, a sea of people. The march, the climax of the tea party tour that started in California back in August and traveled through 35 cities ending in the nation's capital.

It was not the game changer that some Democrats had hoped for. A new CNN poll taken after the president's big speech to Congress last week has his personal approval ratings only slightly improved, but any newfound popularity apparently not translating into support for his health care proposals. Candy Crowley reports now from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madam Speaker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States.

(APPLAUSE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president's health care speech to Congress seems to have boosted his approval rating to a very healthy 58 percent. But the latest CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll found approval of the president's health care plan virtually unchanged from free speech numbers, a bare majority supports it. CNN poll Keating Howland (ph) on the effect of presidential trappings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There may be a little bit of a rally effect every time they see him assume the mantel of the presidency, give a big speech, you know make a big policy pronouncement when they actually look at the details sometimes they're not so hot on the details.

CROWLEY: And the poll did find widespread skepticism of some of the president's key talking points.

OBAMA: I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits.

CROWLEY: No sale. Three-quarters of Americans believe the president's plan would increase the deficit. And about that public health insurance option...

OBAMA: My health care proposal has also been attacked by some who oppose reform as a government takeover of the entire health care system.

CROWLEY: And a solid majority of Americans still think that, 55 percent, including some who think it's a good idea, believe the Obama plan will eventually lead to a government takeover of health care. As for the night's sideshow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You lie!

CROWLEY: A huge majority said shouting at the president was inappropriate but on the issue itself... OBAMA: The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

CROWLEY: Sixty percent say the president did not lie in his speech, still they are split on whether his plan would provide insurance for illegal immigrants. And finally...

OBAMA: In fact I want to speak directly to seniors for a moment.

CROWLEY: They are his toughest constituency when it comes to selling health care.

OBAMA: Watch, I will protect Medicare.

CROWLEY: The CNN poll found seniors are unconvinced, leading to high numbers in overall disapproval of the plan. Younger people overwhelmingly support it. The middle aged are split while the 65 and older crowd are overwhelmingly opposed. Before the president pitched health care on Capitol Hill, White House aides said no single speech can change things. And they were right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: In the end, the president's best chance at getting overwhelming public support for his health care to sign a bill into law. If it works and if he gets it, he'll have all the support he needs -- Lou.

DOBBS: All right, Candy, thank you very much -- Candy Crowley.

The president's health care address last week just another example of his media blitz since taking office. By our count, the president has delivered 85 speeches since inauguration day, and that doesn't include his fund-raising efforts, joint availability with other world leaders, bill signings for remarks for holidays and of course special events at the White House -- 85.

Breaking it down, President Obama has held 16 town hall meetings, seven press conferences, and he has addressed two joint sessions of Congress. Did the president lie about giving illegal immigrants health care or not? Congressman Joe Wilson of South Carolina says he's done apologizing for calling the president a liar during Mr. Obama's big health care speech to Congress.

It was an outburst that some claimed simply out of line. Mr. Wilson says there is proof that vindicates him, so who is actually telling the truth here? Lisa Sylvester has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OBAMA: It's false.

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are the words that sparked the debate...

OBAMA: The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You lie.

SYLVESTER: Representative Joe Wilson of South Carolina is the only member of Congress who has accused the president of outright lying, and he's apologized. But other Republicans contend there's more to the story than the president let on. Republicans insist that while there's language that spells out illegal immigrants are not to receive health care benefits, the House bill does not contain any enforcement measures.

SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: He said, quote, "The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those here illegally." And by their terms, that's a correct statement. But it is also correct that Democrats defeated proposed amendments in the House of Representatives that would have required some verification of eligibility.

SYLVESTER: The amendment sponsored by Representative Dean Heller and defeated in the House Ways and Means Committee would have included verification of legal status. Democrats voted against that amendment citing privacy concerns that sensitive information would be given to insurance companies with no guarantees it would be protected. But since the president's speech, and Representative Wilson's outburst, Senate negotiators have moved to make sure there are new enforcement measures added to the Senate version of the bill.

SEN. KENT CONRAD (D), NORTH DAKOTA: We also talked again further refinements on how we make certain that no one who is here illegally would benefit from these initiatives.

SYLVESTER: And the White House Friday outlined a tougher stance. Illegal immigrants would not only be prohibited from receiving health care subsidies, they also wouldn't be allowed to participate in what's known as the exchange, a central purchasing stop for consumers and businesses to buy health insurance. Congressman Charles Gonzalez, vice chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, issued this statement in response to calls to stepped up enforcement.

Quote, "HR3200 explicitly prohibits undocumented immigrants from receiving federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Federal health programs already have concrete mechanisms for verifying immigrant eligibility. HR3200 keeps these procedures in place."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: Medicaid and Medicare do have those verification programs in place that check for legal status. And had it passed, the Heller amendment would have put in place the same enforcement system in this health care bill. We should also mention, Lou that you know illegal immigrants currently have access to health care under a 1986 law, emergency rooms can't turn away people who need their services even if they can't pay and even if they are in this country illegally -- Lou.

DOBBS: And we should point out that even though they are provided that care and guaranteed that care at emergency rooms, anywhere in the country, they are counted, at least in the 2007 census, as a group of people uninsured for health care. By the way, that number is estimated in the 2007 number as 7.5 million of the 46 million that people talked about. The number, however, is somewhere between -- generally acknowledged to be between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants in this country. This is quite a turn. So at this point, you would say there's something for both sides in the story?

SYLVESTER: Yeah, I would say that, you know, it depends on what part you focus on. The president is only focusing on the first half, that language that's in the House bill that specifically says illegal immigrants are not entitled to any of these benefits. But here's the catch -- if there's no enforcement provisions then how would you know and that's the point that Republicans have repeatedly pointed out and is now getting attention, Lou.

DOBBS: And by the way it's attention which obviously, implicitly, the Democratic leadership in Congress is acknowledging was a problem and they have turned to reverse those, if you will, the parsing that was necessary to get through that statement made by the president. Lisa, thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester.

Turning now to the war in Afghanistan, two more of our troops have been killed in combat. Our soldiers killed by an IED in southern Afghanistan, where our troops have stepped up operations against the Taliban. The Taliban are increasing their use of such roadside bombs. And as you see in this dramatic video today released by the Pentagon, insurgents spotted by U.S. Apache helicopters trying to plant an IED, but this time it ended quite differently for the insurgents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've positioned themselves on opposite sides of the motorcycle from the friendlies that suffered the IED attack and they are definitely digging in the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a kid? Damn it!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The kid appears to be carrying something over into their vicinity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's handing them something and they're digging in that road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Go away kid! Go away kid! Go away kid!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child brought something to those two individuals that appear to be digging in the road. Handed it to them and (INAUDIBLE) at this point.

(EXPLOSION)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa! Never mind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) It just detonated by itself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They just blew themselves up. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They affirm. They just blew themselves up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Well, a remarkable video and the Apache helicopter didn't have to fire a single shot, as the terrorist blew themselves up. When the IRA did the same thing in Northern Ireland the British army called that an own (ph) goal.

Up next, our continuing coverage of health care systems around the world. Tonight we take a look at the quality of health care and the problems in Mexico.

Also ACORN workers caught in the act again and again and again. Filmmakers posing as a prostitute and a pimp receiving law breaking advice from ACORN activist workers.

And police identifying the body of a missing Yale grad student whose killing, police say was quote, "not a random act".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: New developments now -- the Senate has passed a measure tonight cutting off some federal funding to the left wing activist and advocacy group ACORN. That vote, 83-7, on an amendment that has been offered by Senator Mike Johanns, a Republican from Nebraska. The amendment now blocks ACORN from receiving millions of federal tax dollars through the transportation and housing legislation.

It could, however, still receive money from other federal sources. Senator Johanns' office says ACORN has already received $83 million in federal funds since 1994. Friday, the U.S. Census Bureau terminated its agreement with ACORN to participate in the 2010 census. By the way, the funding for ACORN, 40 percent of it, coming from taxpayer dollars.

The funding amendment comes as new accusations against ACORN continue to surface. ACORN staffers and a third office have been caught on tape apparently giving advice to a pair of undercover filmmakers who were posing as a pimp and a prostitute. The ACORN workers were on tape telling the two how to evade the law. This latest ACORN scandal surfacing last week when similar videos made in ACORN's Baltimore and Washington, D.C. offices were released online. Our Abbie Boudreau has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The three videos show ACORN workers apparently offering help and advice to a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute. ACORN spokesman calls it a right wing setup.

SCOTT LEVENSON, ACORN SPOKESMAN: It's a sham is what it is. It's an orchestrated sham. It's journalism by Borat that they're attempting to create news rather than report the news and are doing so in a deceiving, not genuine way and trying to trick people who are trying to help people.

BOUDREAU: So far ACORN has fired four of the workers from the videos and has started a nationwide review of its local offices. Yet, it questions the motivation of the filmmakers and it suggests the tapes were doctored, though it's not been able to produce any evidence to back that claim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have been demanding the raw footage, the unedited tape, the un-doctored tape to really try and figure out what was really going on.

BOUDREAU: In the latest undercover video from Brooklyn, New York, filmmaker James O'Keefe and his colleague Hanna Giles (ph) walk into an ACORN office looking for help setting up a fictitious brothel using underage girls trafficked in from El Salvador. Rather than call the police, a staff member advises the couple to hide their illicit income in a tin can.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You get a tin and you bury it down in there and you put the money right in there and cover it and put it and you tell a single soul but yourself where it is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A tin -- I put the money in a tin...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a tin and put it in there (INAUDIBLE) and cover it with grass and put the grass over it.

BOUDREAU: In an earlier video, D.C. workers advised a pimp about how to get his money and protect his good name, after he tells them he intends to run for Congress someday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you're going to have do is say that you're getting a gift from somebody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, but the money got to go in the bank.

BOUDREAU: And Baltimore weighed in on how to hide the fact that the brothel was going to be staffed by young girls brought in illegally from El Salvador.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The girls come -- they're really not going to be employees because you're not going to issue them W-2s at the end of the year.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Under 16.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you don't worry about that. But on the other (INAUDIBLE) you can use them as a dependent...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can use them as a dependent because they live in your house, especially if they're under 16.

BOUDREAU: We tried to contact all of the workers in the three cities without success.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOUDREAU: Lou, we have calls into the FBI since we're now talking not only about two states in the district but also about international sex trafficking. We also have a call into the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development which authorizes ACORN staff to give housing advice, about whether it intends to investigate these incidents, but we're still waiting to hear back -- Lou.

DOBBS: Abbie, what is ACORN saying beyond the idea that these were not nice people deceiving them, these filmmakers? I mean how are they rationalizing what we're watching here on video?

BOUDREAU: Well one of the big questions that we wanted to know are what are the qualifications -- you know what is the kind of training that these employees are getting before they're giving advice like this because it just doesn't make any sense. But they just don't seem to have an answer for us right now. I mean they really stayed on point with what they wanted to tell us and what they wanted to communicate to us. So of course these are questions that we need answered. People want these answers. Lou?

DOBBS: Abbie, if I could, I'd like to ask you to just stand by for a moment. We've been reporting here for some time on the investigation into ACORN's voter registration policies. And on this very broadcast in April, ACORN's chief organizer and CEO Bertha Lewis was in complete denial about our reporting of those widespread investigations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: What do you suppose would be said about ACORN, you're being investigated in 13 states, for crying out loud.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm glad you brought that up.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's not true. Check the facts. It's not true. You can get on the phone right now, call the Department of Justice.

DOBBS: I didn't say anything about the Justice Department.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You call any -- ACORN is not being investigated anywhere in any state. You don't have your facts correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Well, as it turns out, our facts are correct. ACORN and its workers are being investigated in at least 10 states. And by the way that discussion started with, of course, Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Maricopa County -- including by the way, the ACORN charges against 11 former ACORN workers filed just last week in the state of Florida.

Now, I'll have a few thoughts on ACORN and all the day's issues on the radio Monday through Fridays on "The Lou Dobbs Show" -- but I want to go to, if I may, back to Abbie Boudreau.

There you hear Bertha Lewis saying, no way. I mean she's -- I don't know if she's in complete denial or if whether she's just denying completely as a matter of tactics. What is -- what is the sense from the leadership of ACORN here?

BOUDREAU: Well I mean it's the same thing that we're seeing in this story. When -- last week when we first reported this story, when we talked to the spokesperson, Scott Levinson, about this, he said that this wasn't happening. He said that these tapes, this filmmaker went to you know a few different cities and this wasn't happening in those cities.

In fact, you know they were reporting it to police. But that's not what we're finding. We're seeing tape after tape coming out with the same story, the same kind of setup and the same kinds of answers that these employees are giving, so I mean this is something of course ACORN says that they're looking into.

I don't know. I think a lot of people -- I know we talked to Congressmen Steve King of Iowa last week, and he is outraged about this saying that you know he feels that there should be a congressional investigation into this and I think there are more people that will be stepping up saying similar things.

DOBBS: It's extraordinary that there hasn't been more of a call on Capitol Hill for an investigation. But obviously, with this amendment just put through by Senator Johanns that has begun. We'll see where it leads. Abbie, thank you very much. Nice reporting.

Up next here, our continuing series on the quality of health care around the world. Tonight, we focus on Mexico. Also the president, was he telling the truth when he said illegal immigrants wouldn't be covered under his health care plan? That is the subject of our "Face Off" debate tonight.

And a sea of people, Americans rallying in the nation's capital, mainstream media calling them just tens of thousands of people, were they ignored? Were their voices actually heard? That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs. DOBBS: Congressman Joe Wilson causing an uproar when he yelled "you lie" to President Obama in front of the joint session of Congress last week. But will the president's health care plan cover millions of illegal immigrants or not? That's the subject of tonight's "Face Off" debate.

And joining me now, Congressman Anthony Weiner, Democrat of New York, who says no illegal immigrants would receive coverage. Good to have you with us, Congressman.

REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: My pleasure...

DOBBS: And Congressman Brian Bilbray, Republican of California who says there are loopholes that would allow health coverage to illegal immigrants. Good to have you with us, Congressman.

REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: Great to be with you...

DOBBS: Let's listen to what Olympia Snowe -- Senator Snowe had to say today after a meeting of the so-called gang of six over in the Senate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. OLYMPIA SNOWE (R), MAINE: There are still some other issues but make sure that there's, you know, explicit verification, you know, documentation and also (INAUDIBLE) prohibition against illegal immigrants.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Well, there's Olympia Snowe, Senator Snowe making it very clear, there should be absolutely no coverage, Congressman Weiner. And it looks like that would be, if this legislation is to go forward in the Senate, that would be an absolute requisite. Are you comfortable with that?

WEINER: Well let's make it very clear, there are many different plans floating around, and every single one of them makes it very clear that no one who is undocumented will be eligible to sign up for any of the plans being contemplated. But before we get too carried away with ourselves, let's remember something.

Whether they're covered by insurance or not, they're still going to get health care and it's still going to be paid for by we the taxpayers. That's why we need to fix immigration laws. We can try to thump our chest and say we're being tough on immigrant by leaving them out of these plans but that doesn't mean they're not going to get care and it doesn't mean that if they can't afford it there going to pass along the bills to our localities and to we the taxpayer.

DOBBS: Congressman Bilbray?

BILBRAY: Lou, you know that if you do not have verification -- if you don't have a requirement that you check that people are legally in the country, the illegal swarm in. I mean the fact is, is that in California where illegals are not supposed to get in state tuition, they're getting it now.

You're getting college loans because we're not checking. The fact is you can all say you want about well, we don't want illegals to get it, but if you don't specifically identify that you will check and verify, that's the absurdist thinking that you're going to set a speed limit on a road, but then put a big sign up says but no enforcement on this road will be implemented. What speed do you think they'd follow?

DOBBS: Congressman Weiner, two amendments that would have been -- including the Heller amendment first and foremost that would have provided enforcement, defeated in Congress, conveying at least to many the very specific impression that just as you were intimating there, that there was no desire to be, quote/unquote, "tough on illegal immigrants" but rather to make enforcement, you know, absolutely impossible and, therefore, tacitly to give health care coverage to illegal immigrants. Is that -- is that incorrect?

WEINER: That's completely untrue. In fact in the laws it's written in the five different plans, you can't sign up to get into the exchange or sign up to get any benefits without verification. The Heller amendment had the absurd idea that we want our doctors sitting in an emergency room trying to figure out if someone was documented or not, that we should not put that burden on any hospital or any doctor. Doctors should be left to take care of people. The only question was an absurd amendment that was roundly defeated that said you know what -- when someone is brought in on a gurney, let's figure out by doing a retina scan or fingerprint whether they're here illegally. Let doctors do what they do best. We, policymakers who said you can't sign up for insurance, you can't sign up for benefits if you're not documented, that's easy to verify and that's in the law.

DOBBS: Congressman Bilbray, you get the last word on this.

BILBRAY: The last word is the fact that history has proven that if you verify, you require verification, check documentation and make sure you send not just a signal to those illegally here now but send it around the world that, look, America's not going to reward people for coming into our country illegally. We have to send a clear message so they learn, don't try to break the law, don't take that risk because we're not going to reward you. If you don't even bother to require verification then you have groups that end up suing and stopping any kind of verification, even if somebody wants to voluntarily do it because they claim it's discrimination. That's why it's quite clear just like employment, like the president rightfully did this month by mandating all contractors verify. We should do the same thing with all of our public benefits across the board. That's how we send a clear message if you want to come here to America, come here legally.

DOBBS: Your reaction to that, Congressman Wiener?

WIENER: Look, no one's disputing that you should have verification to enroll in the program. The law is crystal clear, anyone from any part of the world can read that, no one's going to get the insurance if they're not here legally. The only question the absurd idea that others have, if someone's rolled in on a gurney, before we do any operation, anything, we find out whether or not they're documented. Let's leave doctors and nurses and technicians to do what they do well. Just because we have immigration laws that are broken, does that the mean that should go on. I say to Mr. Bilbray, if he's an unfortunate person to be brought in and he doesn't have a wallet with him or can't speak, are we supposed to wait to operate to make sure he's here legally and wait for a system to try to check that? I think that's folly. The issues are the costs and you bring down cost business passing plans like the Obama administration's proposed.

BILBRAY: Anthony, you know that's not true. I mean San Diego county provides $600 million of free health care to illegal aliens, you know they don't deny you. I've been in hospitals in my county when I was a chairman. I saw it.

WIENER: What are you asking for? What are you asking for then?

BILBRAY: I want to make sure that before you sign on to any public federal benefit or any public program the federal government's involved with that you verify that somebody's legally present.

WIENER: That's in the law, Brian, and you know it.

BILBRAY: That is not, in fact. In fact, the congressional research board already said that they will have access in here.

WIENER: I will show you the page in the bill.

BILBRAY: Why did you vote against the motion in your committee when the fact, all it said, is let's verify people's citizenship before they get the benefit.

WIENER: No, what Heller said we should not provide any service at a hospital unless verified. That's an impossible standard for a doctor, and you know it.

BILBRAY: I know what the schedules are now in the process now. They get the benefits, Anthony, and you know they're getting benefits at clock of 600 million.

DOBBS: We'll continue this. Come back, we'll continue the discussion. We appreciate it. Congressman Anthony Wiener, Congressman Brian Bilbray. Thank you.

Lisa Sylvester with an update on stories we're following tonight.

Lisa?

SYLVESTER: Thanks Lou. In New York City, law enforcement agents raided homes in this Queens neighborhood today as part of a terrorism investigation. A source at the New York Police Department confirms that a joint terrorism task force searched multiple buildings, another source tells CNN agents were searching for an individual who was not there. A witness says agents did take a black document box out of one apartment. Two senior members of congress, Homeland Security Chairman Betty Thompson and New York's Peter King, were briefed on the raid today.

Police have found the body of a missing 24-year-old Yale graduate student. Annie Le, a medical examiner identified the body found stuffed into a lab wall as le. Le reported missing Tuesday and the body was discovered yesterday on what was supposed to be her wedding day. Police are calling the death a homicide. Authorities don't have anyone in custody but do not believe this was a random act of violence.

And in California, bail set for $30 million for accused kidnapper Phillip Garrido. Both Garrido and his wife pleaded not guilty to 29 charges of kidnap, rape, fall imprisonment. They are accused of kidnapping Jaycee Dugard and holding her captive for 18 years. Police say Garrido fathered two children with Dugard while she was his captive.

Those are some of the stories we are following tonight. Back to you.

DOBBS: Thank you Lisa. Up next, public outrage overflowing this weekend in a march on Washington. The protesters' angry message to the president and how many protesters and demonstrators were there? And why did much of the national media seem to miss the story? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Our continuing series of reports, jobs now. As we have reported the president issued a warning to Wall Street today, one year after the collapse of Lehman Brothers in the onset of the financial meltdown. In its wake, taxpayers have been saddled with literally trillions of dollars in government bailouts and a soaring unemployment rate. But while the president called for more regulation today, he insisted the economy is returning to normalcy. The question is, where are the jobs?

Joining me now, Harvey Eisen chairman of Bedford Advisor, Adam Lerrick, visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, David Cay Johnson, law professor at Syracuse University.

Let me start, Harvey, where are the jobs? Why isn't there more attention to paid to the fact unemployment numbers look horrible.

HARVEY EISEN, BEDFORD AT OAK ADVISORS: The jobs are a disaster. They are horrendous. They -- this whole plan is not working in terms of creating jobs. But having said that, Lou, historically, jobs do lag and hopefully it will get better.

DOBBS: Adam?

ADAM LERRICK, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: I think -- I agree with Harvey, to a large extent, but I don't think it's going to get better soon. We're going to I have very slow recovery and a recovery where unemployment lags greatly behind GDP numbers, for instance. One of the problem is the president's program, in spite of what he says, reforming health care, alternative energy programs they are not going to create jobs. They're not going to raise U.S. productivity.

DOBBS: David?

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Well, if you want to really reform health care, you're certainly going to destroy a lot of jobs because a lot of the health care jobs are make work and we don't need them. And I agree with both the other guests, we're going to see very slow job growth. When we stop losing jobs, and that's still some months off.

DOBBS: So the question is, why are jobs going to be so slow to return here and, Harvey, your thought?

EISEN: Well, Lou, that's not the purpose of this. The purpose of this is to help out people that have maintained the position that, without helping them, the system will go into the great abyss and we will all be somewhere in outer space. The reality is --

DOBBS: Our friends on Wall Street?

EISEN: Well, some of our friends on wall street. The reality is, the emphasis is in the wrong place. It really is this time. It's a disaster.

DOBBS: So, why this seeming intransigent employment issue, why aren't jobs able to be driven here, created here? They have in the past, at least at the margin. We're not seeing a hint of that right now, are we?

LERRICK: No, we're not. The reason is that normally when we get a quick recovery, it's due to construction. And the problem is right now we have a huge overhang of both residential construction, residential buildings, and commercial building. So we're not going to get a quick recovery. But if you really look at president's plan, his goal is not to get the economy going. His goal is to redistribute. His goal is to create social choices and social policy and he's using the crisis and the rational that we're addressing the crisis to eliminate debate on these choices.

DOBBS: What do you think, David?

JOHNSTON: Well, I don't disagree there's redistribution going on but the government's policy has been redistributing upward and taking with those with less for a long time. We're not going to get more jobs until we create the right incentives for those who run companies to invest here in jobs and that they get a return for investing in those jobs. So long as our economic policies are let's move manufacturing to china, this is going to continue. It's a fundamental problem.

EISEN: I think he's got it right. I think the government ought to incentivize private enterprise and business to hire people, and that can really be done very quickly.

DOBBS: This is a president who had the opportunity during the campaign to go after the outsourcing of American jobs, to make it very clear that free trade would not be a code word for wide open outsourcing and offshoring. He chose not to do so with those giant hemorrhaging, gaping holes in our trade policy and job policies. Can we possibly start building anew soon?

LERRICK: We can start building soon. Effects will take a long time. Right now our educational system is in disarray. We cannot create high-paying jobs though we have a high-paid workforce. We're going to continue to lose jobs until we restructure the educational system and make workers productive.

DOBBS: David, as you look at those unemployment numbers, I know you look at them carefully, we're seeing about 3 million jobs, so- called professional white collar jobs, in this. This is a -- this has been a redistributive recession, is that not?

JOHNSTON: Yes. And you know the half of Americans who make less than $30,000 shown on tax returns, Lou, numbers are growing, and their number incomes are falling as a group and individually. Gains are going at top. 18,000 households got 22 percent of all the increase income in the country from 2006 to 2007, just 18,000 households in a country with 300 million plus.

DOBBS: There are two gentlemen here shaking their head. We'll find out what they're shaking their head about when we come back in a moment. We'll return after this quick commercial break.

Congressman Joe Wilson's "you lie" outburst sparking outrage, mild compared to what passes for civility in other countries.

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DOBBS: Adam, Harvey, you were both shaking your head, as David was looking at the income tax burden, if you will, on the upper earners in this country.

LERRICK: Well, I think certainly it's true, that uppers had a relative, key is relative, improvement to low earners in the country but virtually everyone, especially lower income group, benefited during the years 1990s and years 2000. What we're seeing is that, when we have a globalized world, where you have to compete against china, you have to compete against Germany, you have to compete against India, you need the skills to compete, and that's the problem we have in this country. Our labor force doesn't have those skills, and is losing them rapidly.

DOBBS: Harvey?

EISEN: I have to tell you, Lou, there are some of that is want to remain in the 18,000 that both of these people are talking about, it's very important.

DOBBS: I knew you'd feel that way.

EISEN: Having said that, I share their pain. I have never remembered a time when the dislocations have been so ridiculously lopsided. I mean, this is really become outrageous. DOBBS: What are we going to do about it?

EISEN: Hopefully we have a president that has a vested interest in changing that. I mean, that's his whole mandate.

DOBBS: Well, maybe his mandate but how does he go about it? He can do it as sort of a central command doctrine, which way does he go here?

EISEN: Well he doesn't do it by going to Wall Street and delivering another useless, worthless street to a bunch of guys who stand there and think about the meaning of life. This has got to be approached differently and he hasn't figured it out.

DOBBS: Regulation?

EISEN: Never, no. Never works.

DOBBS: Incentivization?

EISEN: Of course.

DOBBS: What would it be?

EISEN: Government can play a major role by incentivizing the economic system to generate more jobs.

DOBBS: David?

JOHNSTON: Well, first off, Lou, the bottom 90 percent of Americans had lower incomes in 2007 than in 2000. And secondly, I agree we need to have incentives. There's no question about that, but governments from the beginning of time, all the way back to Hammurabi have regulated the financial sector. You need to have regulation that reduces risk-taking that affects all of us or are you going to take it by the spectators that make those bets, not paid for by the rest of us.

DOBBS: All right. Adam, lead us to the wilderness.

LERRICK: What's the lesson we've learned from this the crisis? I said, if you reward people for doing stupid things, expect them to do a lot of them.

DOBBS: It's working.

The president today, no details, no specifics. A threatening tone, if you will, a warning tone. Will Wall Street as Harvey suggests, simply shrug and go back to contemplating it's rather -- well, fancily adorned naval?

LERRICK: If they appeal to their spiritual values, responsibility to society, they're going to somehow change, that's a utopian view. That's not going to happen. What you have to do is provide incentives. DOBBS: I think we have accomplished the rare here. We've actually reached an agreement at the conclusion of one of these discussions. I'm going to seize the moment and say thank you, gentlemen. David, thank you very much, coming to us from Syracuse. Harvey, thank you.

Compared to what happens in other nations, it's hard to know what the fuss is all about. We continue.

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DOBBS: Congressman Joe Wilson's outburst during the president's speech last week still generating controversy. Some Democrats insisting he hasn't sufficiently made good for insulting the office of the president. But compared to what happens among politicians at other countries, it's easy to wonder what the fuss is all about? Casey Wian has our story.

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PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Apply to those who are here illegal.

CON. JOE WILSON: You lie!

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Congressman Joe Wilson quickly apologized to President Obama for his outburst during the president's health care address last week.

WILSON: So I speak out. I called immediately, did apologize. I believe one apology is sufficient.

WIAN: Not for some Democratic politicians and pundits who say Wilson should be censured if he doesn't again say I'm sorry, this time on the house floor.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: You have people who do not respect the office of the president.

PHIL MUSSER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I believe this ongoing censure/resolution business, the president accepted his apology. Let's remember that. He said, I accept your apology, let's move on. We ought to take that at face value and move this forward.

WIAN: While interrupting a president is considered a breach of protocol in the United States -- when Prime Minister Gordon Brown misspoke about bank bailouts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first point of recapitalization was to save banks that would otherwise have collapsed. And we not only saved the world -- saved the banks -- saved the banks and led the way -- we not only saved the banks.

WIAN: In Mexico, fisticuffs broke out among state lawmakers debating. YouTube is filled with Korean politicians male and female duking it out on the floor of the national assembly. They fight in Ukraine and even an American president must duck when visit something places. At least Congressman Wilson didn't throw anything other than a bit of proverbial gasoline on a fiery national debate over health care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: As Princeton University history professor points out, he writes the most infamous incident Kurd when Preston Brooks, a Democrat from South Carolina attacked Republican Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner with his cane and "beat him into a bloody state of unconsciousness." Lou?

DOBBS: Well, some of our politicians wouldn't have to be beaten to reach that state. Thank you very much, Casey. Casey Wian. What a great point it is.

We'll be right back. Stay with us.

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DOBBS: To hear my thoughts on all the day's issues, join me on the radio, Monday through Friday for the "Lou Dobbs Show" in New York, 2:00 to 4:00 each afternoon on WOR 710 radio. Go to loudobbs.com to get the listings on the radio. And also, subscribe to our daily podcast. And today I talked about the outrageous behavior distributed by the A.C.O.R.N. group. Follow me on Lou Dobbs news on twitter.com.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow. Thank you for watching. Good night from New York.

Next here, Campbell Brown.