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Lou Dobbs This Week
Bush Wraps Up Listening Tour, Decisions About Iraq Expected In January; E. Coli, Agro-Terrorism Growing Threat
Aired December 16, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN NEWS ANCHOR, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: I'm Carol Lin with a look at what's happening now in the news.
Worsening conditions are frustrating search efforts on Oregon's Mt. Hood. Crews looking for three missing climbers are being called off the mountain for the day. A rescue plane will stay up tonight to search for signs of the missing man.
Mass murder in Kansas City, Missouri. Police say a man shot and killed five people, including his girlfriend and three of their children, and then turned the gun on himself. A fourth child was shot and critically wounded. Police have not indicated a motive for the shooting spree.
His entire life unfolds on the big screen this weekend.
(BEGIN MOVIE CLIP)
WILL SMITH, ACTOR: Hey. Don't ever let somebody tell you, you can't do something.
(END MOVIE CLIP)
LIN: Will Smith captures the struggle of Chris Gardner who slept in subway restrooms fighting to raise his son, and survive as a homeless man. Where is the real live Chris Gardner now? He's a multimillionaire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS GARDNER, CEO, GARDNER RICH & CO.: In your darkest days, when it's all on the line, the only person you can count on is you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: I'll talk with Chris Gardner about his life and his advice to those fighting to survive. Join us tonight at 10:00 p.m., for a prime time special, "A Paycheck Away".
Coming up at 7:00 Eastern, John Roberts hosts "This Week At War." CNN correspondents discuss the debate over the way forward in Iraq. The Saudi's warning to the U.S., and blood diamonds in Africa.
I'm Carol Lin. LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK starts right now.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: Hello, I'm Kitty Pilgrim, sitting in for Lou Dobbs.
Tonight, President Bush says he won't be rushed into changing his strategy in Iraq. Will he send more troops to Iraq? We'll report from the White House and the Pentagon.
Federal agents arrest more than 1,000 people in a crackdown on illegal immigration at meatpacking plants. All of that and a great deal more, straight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK, news, debate, and opinion, here now, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody. Welcome to LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK.
President Bush will spend a major part of his Christmas holiday considering new options for the war in Iraq. The president concluded his so-called listening tour with a visit to the Pentagon. He is expected to announce his new strategy early in the new year. Ed Henry reports from the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: Kitty, the president spent most of the week working on crafting that new Iraq strategy, kicking into high gear what the White House called a listening tour of top a advisors, from a stop at the State Department to secure video conference here at the White House with military commanders in the field.
Even though the Iraq Study Group, in their final report, told the president there was a lot of urgency, that the situation was grave and deteriorating, the president announced this work he is going to delay his big speech until early January, unveiling the new strategy.
The White House had suggested he would do it before December, but during a stop at the Pentagon, this week the president declared he will not be rushed into a snap decision on such a monumental move forward here, what the White House has been billing a way forward in Iraq.
He also had a direct message for U.S. troops in the field wondering about his next move. He basically said that despite the pressure here at home, he's not bringing them home anytime soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You have my unshakable commitment in this important fight to help secure the peace for the long term. We're not going to give up. The stakes are too high. And consequences too grave to turn Iraq over to extremists who want to do the American people and the Iraqi people harm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: The president ended the week at farewell ceremony at the Pentagon for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who was pushed aside the day after the mid-term elections, because of the growing weight of the unpopular war in Iraq. Rumsfeld leaves a lot of challenges for his successor, Robert Gates, who will be sworn in Monday.
The president saying, in part, he delayed his speech on a new strategy for Iraq because he wants to give Robert Gates a chance to kick the tires, a chance to weigh in on the strategy, also figure out how he's going to implement it. People familiar with deliberations say one idea the president is looking at is sending more troops to Iraq, a controversial move to be sure.
There obviously are questions right now about how many more troops the military can send, when it's stretched too thin. That is going to be one of the biggest facing Robert Gates as he takes over, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Do you know, the number of meetings that have happened in last two weeks a flurry of Iraqis comes through, how all these high-level meetings, with the White House meeting with different levels of government, have you ever seen anything like it? This is quite intense, isn't it?
HENRY: It certainly is intense. Certainly haven't seen it specifically on Iraq. It's clearly a sign that this president realizes not only the building unpopularity for the war but the immense pressure he faces to try to turn it around.
That's why you've seen an acute focus, especially coming out of the midterm elections. That was the first major review, the second review, of course, the Iraq Study Group. It's really -- that group has lost a lot of steam, though. There was a higher expectations in Washington that their recommendations might be implemented. While they are not likely to be implemented what the Iraq Study Group appears to have succeed at, at the least, is putting more pressure on the president and really forcing him come up with a new strategy, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Ed Henry.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has rejected a key recommendation of the Iraq Study Group. Rice told "The Washington Post" she does not support any U.S. engagement with Syria and Iran. She said the compensation required by Syria and Iran for talking about Iraq might be too high.
The Bush administration has not said how it will revise its military strategy in Iraq. Some military commanders are pushing for a big increase in the number of U.S. troops in Iraq. It is not clear whether the military's most senior officers support the idea. Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
Jamie, what did the joint chiefs tell President Bush about the future direction of the war this week?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: According to sources at the Pentagon the joint chiefs laid out for the president pitfalls of various options. According to sources, President Bush is interested in this option of surging an additional significant number of U.S. troops into Iraq to try to settle the situation, to try to get a political statement.
What he heard from his military commanders this week, top members of the joint chiefs, is that surging troops won't do any good unless it is coupled to some sort of strategy to bring about that political change on the ground.
They also heard that the U.S. military has the ability to surge those troops in the short term, but if they have to stay there very long, it's going to cause severe strain on the U.S. military.
And just this week, General Peter Schoomaker also went public saying that the U.S. Army needs tens of thousands of additional troops -- or he needs to have the authority to call up the National Guard, sort of unrestricted access to the National Guard, instead of trying to maintain policy of keeping guard deployments down to two years total.
So Peter Schoomaker making that argument at the same time President Bush is hearing about whether or not the idea of surging troops into Baghdad is even practical. I would just make it clear, that at this point, even the top commanders at the Pentagon do not know what the president will decide.
PILGRIM: These short rotations are certainly indicative of how stretched the military is. Let me ask you, do the commanders believe that more U.S. advisers in Iraq will strengthen Iraqi military, because that's, after all, what's need here?
MCINTYRE: They do believe that this idea of putting more emphasis on training Iraqis is the way to go over the long term. The question is, is there enough patience on part of the U.S. Military -- and on the American public -- and the president, for that strategy which so far has been too slow to produce results. So they're looking for something to kick start that. At the same time, they do believe that embedding a larger number of combat troops with Iraqi units will help stiffen them, and perhaps get them up to the point where they can actually provide a real security presence.
PILGRIM: Jamie, you mentioned that President Bush said he wanted to give incoming Defense Secretary Robert Gates more time to get up to speed. And I'm sure everyone is trying to get a read on Robert Gates and his position. Do you think he will support a permanent increase in the size of the Army and the Marine Corps?
MCINTYRE: Well, that's a prediction on my part, but I say, yes. I think he will. He indicated in his confirmation hearing that he's open to that idea. He's going to get a very strong recommendation, both from General Schoomaker, the Army chief and from General Conway, Marine Corps commandant, that they need bigger troops.
So, I think, yes. That's going to happen.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Jamie McIntyre.
The war in Iraq appeared to be far from the minds of Democrats, when they announced their plans for the new Congress. Incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi made no mention of the war when she announced her agenda, but she had plenty to say about other issues. Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK (voice over): When it comes to New Year's resolutions it's hard to match the House Democrats.
NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA) HOUSE SPEAKER-ELECT: Raising the minimum wage, cut in half interest rates paid on student loans, rolling back subsidies to big oil, advancing stem cell research, cut the link between lobbyists and legislation, passing 9/11 commission recommendations.
SCHNEIDER: Some things like ethics reform they can do on their own, everything else has to be passed by the Senate, where the Democratic majority is hanging by a single vote, and signed into law by President Bush. The toughest pledge may be this one.
PELOSI: No new deficit spending. That will be a part of the rules of the House and we'll introduce it as a statute.
SCHNEIDER: Democrats will have to square that with the pledge to cut the interest rate on student loans. What about the issue that brought Democrats to power, as Pelosi acknowledged last month?
PELOSI: Nowhere was a call for a new direction more clear from the American people than in the war in Iraq.
SCHNEIDER: It's by far the highest priority to voters but the new speaker did not mention Iraq once at her press conference. The House has little control over Iraq policy. It gave the president authority to use force in October 2002, and set aside only two days to debate the war since then.
The House does control spending. But Democratic leaders are reluctant to cut funding for troops. One House Democrat is running for president to protest that policy.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What does it say if only one month after the voters gave us control of Congress, on the issue of Iraq, that we turn around and say, we'll keep funding the war?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: It says the Democrats are being cautious. Every item on their agenda has strong public support, but there's no consensus behind any plan to resolve this situation in Iraq, either among Democrats or the public. And, an increase in number of troops, Kitty, that would be a tough sell.
PILGRIM: Certainly would. Thanks very much, Bill Schneider.
I'll talk to three of the country's best political analysts about the Democrats' ideas for America, next. And also congressman under investigation by the FBI is set to take over the congressional panel that oversees the FBI's budget.
Also federal agents round up suspected illegal aliens at meatpacking plants in six states. Did those illegal aliens steal the identities of Americans?
We'll tell you just how easy it is for illegal aliens, and others, to steal your identity.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Federal agents this week raided meatpacking plants around the country in a new crackdown on illegal immigration. The focus of the operation, illegal aliens who were using fake IDs and stolen Social Security numbers.
Casey Wian reports on those raids and why the company involved is now blaming the federal government for allowing it to hire those illegal aliens in the first place. Christine Romans reports on the lucrative trade of identity theft. We begin with Casey Wian in Los Angeles -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: Kitty, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents this week conducted their largest work site enforcement action ever. They arrested nearly 1300 illegal aliens at six Swift & Company meatpacking plants. So far 65 are being charged with criminal identity theft.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice over): Swift & Company facilities in six states were targeted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents seeking illegal aliens and identity thieves. Agents set up outside a Swift meatpacking plant in Colorado, where workers were frisked, photographed, handcuffed, and taken away on buses for interrogation. They face charges ranging from administrative immigration violations, to felony aggravated identity theft.
TIM COUNTS, ICE SPOKESMAN: We believe there may be hundreds of people, U.S. citizens and legal immigrants, whose identities have been stolen by people who then use those identities to work in Swift plants across the country.
HECTOR ANGEL, RELATIVE OF SWIFT EMPLOYEE: Everybody has do what they have to do to make a living. I agree with that, that it's wrong, but at the same time it's not, because you know we are human beings.
WIAN: Swift is the world's second largest meat processor. ICE says the company is not being charged but its 10-month investigation continues. Swift says it "has never condoned the employment of unauthorized workers, nor have we ever knowingly hired such individuals."
Incredibly, Swift also says, the ICE raids raise serious questions as to the government's possible violation of individual workers' civil rights. DAN STEIN, FED. FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: These businesses are last one to be complaining about, quote "civil rights". It's like a plantation owner arguing that the abolitionists are some how violating the civil rights of slaves.
The use of illegal aliens is creating the exploitive conditions that many Americans are working under today.
WIAN: Swift says all employees, since 1997, have been cleared by the federal government's Basic Pilot work authorization program. It verifies Social Security numbers, but not identity.
VICTOR CERDA, FMR. ICE OFFICIAL: You really have, here, an ideal picture of how broken the system is on employee verification. It's not working for the employer here, and it's not working for the government.
WIAN: One federal law enforcement source says Basic Pilot may be flawed but it doesn't give amnesty to any company's employees who break the law.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The union representing Swift works actually complained about the ICE raids, so has the Mexican government. Half of the workers arrested are Mexican citizens and Mexico is asking the United States to release any mothers it has detained, so they can care for their children, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Casey, you've covered this issue for quite a while. How big was this in contrast to other raids? And this was public, wasn't it?
WIAN: Yes, it was very public. ICE is showing a clear sign of strength and a clear they're planning to crack down on employers who blatantly hire illegal aliens. The numbers of people arrested slightly larger than the Pallet Company raids, that happened earlier this year, which you remember. ICE says it's very serious about this issue, finally cracking down on employers of illegal aliens, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Casey Wian.
Later in the broadcast, Lou sits down with an executive from the union representing the Swift plant workers, Marc Lauritsen from the United Food & Commercial Workers Union, is accusing Immigration officials of, quote, "terrorizing workers". That's a little bit later in this broadcast.
Stolen Social Security numbers and stolen identities are critical for illegal aliens who seek to be employed in this country, unlawfully. Those documents are easy to obtain. Many Americans don't even know that their identities have been stolen. Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: The number on this card is the ticket for someone looking to work illegally in the United States.
JAY FOLEY, IDENTITY THEFT RESOURCES CTR.: It's gold. It's the key. Because in this country you can't work unless you have a Social Security number.
ROMANS: For a few hundred dollars your vital information, your valid Social Security number is for sale. The government last year alerted employers that some 7.7 million W-2 forms had names and Social Security numbers that did not match. Some simply clerical mistakes, the rest, fraud.
ID theft experts say the fastest growing group of victims legal permanent residents and children, whose name, and Social Security number together allow someone to work unchallenged for years. And may not raise any red flags at all.
Using a stolen Social Security number is a felony, but selling one is not a crime. Congressman Clay Shaw wants Congress to change that.
REP. CLAY SHAW, (R) FLORIDA: Now the estimates are between 12 million and 13 million illegals working in the country. And probably, my guess would be that well over half of them are working on somebody else's Social Security number. And it can be actually your newborn daughter or son that could be the victim.
ROMANS: In these meatpacking raids the government says identities of hundreds of legal residents and American citizens were stolen, some workers even had genuine birth certificates.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: It's almost impossible when it's an actual stolen identity to have any kind of red flag in the government. Otherwise, critics say the government is effectively protecting companies that have chronically high numbers of illegal employees.
Conservative watchdog Judicial Watch says this week it filed a Freedom of Information request demanding the government disclose the companies that do have the highest number of employees whose names, and Social Security numbers, don't match.
Outing companies without revealing the identities of the taxpayers, they say, does not violate any kind of privacy laws, so they can crack down on those mismatches, even though it is very difficult, at the same time, to crack down on people who have outright stolen your identity.
PILGRIM: That will be a tough battle, we'll keep looking at that. Thanks very much, Christine Romans.
Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, in a review of his agency's performance over the past year, gave a bleak assessment of our nation's border security. He said illegal immigration so far has defeated all of the enforcement measures this government has been able to muster. But, he claimed, actions like this week's raid against illegal alien workers are beginning to have an effect.
Coming up, a congressman under investigation by the FBI is set to take charge of a committee that that supervises the FBI budget. We'll have a special report.
Can the nation's food supply be kept safe? We'll have a report. And Lou talks to the co-chair of the Congressional Food Caucus. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The Democrats vow to take on the culture of corruption in Washington, but are they part of it? The Democratic congressman likely to head the committee that oversees the FBI budget is himself under investigation by the FBI. Lisa Sylvester reports.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: Depending on who you ask, Representative Alan Molihan is either a savvy real estate investigator or congressman who may have become rich by helping key friends.
KEN BOEHM, NAT'L. LEGAL & POLICY CENTER: In the year 2000 he was worth several hundred thousand. Just four years later he was worth between -- had more $6 million and as much $24 million in assets.
SYLVESTER: According to financial disclosure reports those assets include more than a dozen condos in Washington, D.C., and a North Carolina beach house. Molihan and a former congressional staffer, Laura Koons, bought real estate investment along the Carolina coast.
Congressman Molihan tapped the same congressional aide to head up one of five nonprofit organizes he set up in his West Virginia district.
In last five years, Molihan, who sits on the Appropriations Committee, helped channel more than $150 million in taxpayer money to keep these economic development nonprofits thriving.
The National Legal & Policy Center filed a 500-page complaint with the Justice Department this year, detailing Molihan's business arrangements. But in a strange twist, Molihan may end of chairing the very sub-committee that has jurisdiction over the Justice Department's budget.
It is well known that Mr. Molihan is now under investigation by the Justice Department and the FBI, and is in a very awkward position for the FBI or Justice Department to go to Mr. Molihan, to talk about their appropriations, at the same time, he's in charge of their purse strings.
SYLVESTER: A spokesman for Molihan said, quote, "The allegations and suggestions of wrongdoing made by the NLPC are utterly false," end quote. And added that the congressman made his fortune from an inheritance that he reinvested in a booming real estate market.
In a statement, Molihan's former congressional aide said, quote, "I have never personally profited from earmarks in any way, nor have earmarks funded my real estate investments, or other personal purchases."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The complaint filed against Molihan also looks at campaign contributions. The executives and officers of these nonprofits, that receive millions of dollars in federal earmarks, were quite generous to the Molihan re-election campaign donating more than $12,000 between 2004 and 2006 -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester.
Well, time now for some of your thoughts and Robert in Colorado wrote to us: "There is a double standard in this country. The federal government expects and requires me to pay federal taxes. I, in turn, expect the federal government to enforce immigration laws and maybe the middle class should stop paying federal taxes until the federal government starts enforcing immigration laws that are currently on the books."
Gary in Florida writes: "Am I hearing this correctly? George Bush says he does not want to make any snap decisions about Iraq. What kind of decision did he make back in 2003?"
We love hearing from you. Each of you whose e-mail is read here will receive a copy of Lou's book "War On The Middle Class".
And coming up, labor leader blast the federal government for arresting illegal aliens at meatpacking plants. One union official joins us.
Plus, lawmakers demand an urgent investigation into the safety of our food supply after the latest outbreak of food poisoning. We'll hear what they plan to do.
And our distinguished panel of political experts will discuss if there will be anything resembling bipartisanship in Washington come January. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK, news, debate and opinion. Here again, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Mexican government officials say that nearly half of the more than 1,200 meat packing employees detained in Tuesday's immigration raids are Mexican nationals. Mexico is asking the U.S. to release mothers who were arrested so they can care for their U.S.-born children. And the United Food and Commercial Workers Union says that the agents terrorize those workers in an outrageous display of force. Now, Lou sat down with Marc Lauritsen, the union's international vice president, and asked him about the use of strong language condemning the raid, particularly at a time when we're engaged in a war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARC LAURITSEN, UNITED FOOD AND COMM. WORKERS: Thirteen thousand people, they went to work, they expected their lives to go on as normal. But what truly happened was when they got to work, these plants were surrounded, the gates were locked, the agents swarmed in with military-type weapons and full riot gear. They stood up on tables and segregated people strictly by their skin color. They gave people that looked like me, blond haired blue eyed blue bands and said you were free to go.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: So they were racists as well as terrorists? Is that what you're saying?
LAURITSEN: What they did was, with those military weapons, they detained thousands of people. They detained them under military-style tactics. What the...
DOBBS: Military-style tactics or law enforcement -- excuse me, Marc, let's be honest here. How would you distinguish these tactics from the tactics taken by law enforcement agencies on a number of circumstances?
LAURITSEN: But -- you bring the good point up. What was this about? According to the court records this was about 170 people that ICE knew the name of that were working in those facilities. And instead of going and strategically removing them, they stormed into those plants and they terrorized 13,000 people so they could extract 170.
Now let me put it this way. I applaud what ICE did in Louisville, Kentucky. But the same employer, they went in very quietly and extracted they those that allegedly were engaged in identity theft. They had the capability to do it.
This was not about identity theft. This was about them making a splash. And what did they do in this splash? They turned communities upside down, they took breast-feeding babies away from mothers. They left students as young as six years old at schools with nothing -- you know, no one to call home to, nobody to take them home.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, because I think a lot of people might be taken aback that the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union is involved in this at all. What is your case? What is your role in all of this?
LAURITSEN: These are working Americans. They're working men and women who...
DOBBS: No, no. Whoa, whoa, partner. Whoa, whoa. You said these are working Americans. We've got the Mexican government saying they're working Mexican nationals. Which are they?
LAURITSEN: All right. Well, OK. I apologize. Let's say it this way. These are working men and women, many of them who were here under legal status.
DOBBS: My question is, what is your union doing involved with employees who are illegal aliens, who have in 170 cases been charged with stealing the identity of American citizens to work there, and the workforce, 18 percent of which was illegal? What was your role in all of that?
LAURITSEN: Our role is to represent workers and to see that working people in this country get a fair shake.
DOBBS: Workers or illegal workers? Workers or illegal workers?
LAURITSEN: They're -- people that are working in these facilities that need a fair shake.
DOBBS: No. They're people working. We understand.
Did you check to see whether or not they're legal before you represent them?
LAURITSEN: Our job is to represent people that work in slaughter houses. That's what we do.
DOBBS: So you don't have a responsibility as a union to obey American law?
LAURITSEN: We only can represent -- we represent people that work in these facilities. We don't hire them. We represent them.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Since you won't acknowledge your responsibility for that, will you acknowledge a responsibility for the wages they're paid? What of their pages -- how much have their wages have risen over the last 20 years, Marc...
LAURITSEN: Lou, you and I both know...
DOBBS: ... in those meat packing plants?
LAURITSEN: I know where you're going. And you and I both know that workers don't depress wages, corporations depress wages. And they depress wages by using a...
DOBBS: No, partner. You and I both know -- Marc, you and I both know that corporations have to pay living wages if there isn't and influx of illegal labor or surplus labor. And the reason there's a surplus labor, the very people you're supposed to be representing, American workers, have watched their wages drop from $19 to $9 because you're willing to make no distinction between an illegal worker in the country and a lawful, legal, American citizen...
LAURITSEN: No. What has happened here...
DOBBS: ... and that is your responsibility.
LAURITSEN: What has happen here is that corporations throughout this country have exploited a broken immigration system for their on advantage.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more.
LAURITSEN: This government needs to get on the stick. The Republican Congress promised us that was just voted out of office promised us...
DOBBS: You and I agreed, Marc, this government is a joke. This government is dysfunctional. It's irresponsible to the point of criminal negligence.
LAURITSEN: What I will tell you, Lou, is...
DOBBS: Do we agree?
LAURITSEN: ... and what I will tell you is -- what you saw two days ago at these meat packing plants was this administration's and this government's another bungling of a job that could have been done a lot better. This government bungled it. And that's what they've done.
DOBBS: And I feel -- and, Marc, how do you explain to your membership, American citizens, paying your union dues, that you're complicit in driving their wages down by participating in the exploitation of these illegal workers?
LAURITSEN: Well, I disagree. We're the ones that are driving those wages up. We're pushing up as best we can...
DOBBS: You're driving them up. You're kidding! Name another industry that's lost 50 percent of its wage power over the course of last 20 years.
LAURITSEN: Well, that's not exactly the truth. The wages in this industry...
(CROSSTALK)
LAURITSEN: No, first of all, the starting wage in those union meat packing plants is about $11 an hour and it goes as high as $23 an hour depending on the job.
DOBBS: Marc, we'll continue this conversation later. It's a very simple thing. You're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution. If you feel good about where you are, you know, that's fine, it's America.
We appreciate you being here.
LAURITSEN: I look forward to continuing the conversation. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Coming up, the co-chair of the Congressional Food Safety Caucus says our food process is collapsing. We talk with Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro.
And Lou Dobbs has a chance to express outrage about that Christmas tree controversy at the Seattle-Tacoma Airport. Do not miss that.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Federal health officials now say the source of an e. coli outbreak at the Taco Bell chain was lettuce and that it was likely contaminated before it reached the restaurants. But, such outbreaks point out a critical vulnerability in our nation's food chain.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The nation's food supply is at risk. There is surprisingly little dispute about that fact. The Department of Homeland Security announced in August that it's establishing the National Bio and Agro Defense Facility to focus on food safety to minimize that risk. It will be run jointly by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Department of Health and Human services. But it will be about two years before that facility is actually up and working to protect our food chain.
TONY CORBO, FOOD AND WATER: Food safety in this country right now is in great peril because of the fact that both the USDA and FDA do not have the adequate resources to make sure that our food is safe.
TUCKER: The Food and Drug Administration has only about 2,000 inspectors for roughly 80 percent of the food supply. The U.S. Department of Agriculture, which has oversight of meat and dairy products, has about 7,000 inspectors for the remaining roughly 20 percent. It is a big task and not just solely the responsibility of regulators.
DOUG POWELL, KANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY: What the Food and Drug Administration has been saying is -- and they've been saying it very clearly throughout these outbreaks is it is industry's responsibility to provide a safe product. And I agree with that.
TUCKER: Increasing our vulnerability is the fact that America doesn't feed itself. Last year we imported $2.7 billion more vegetables than we exported and $2.5 billion more fruits. Over the past five years, our vegetable imports have doubled, as did our fruit imports.
TOM BUIS, NATIONAL FARMERS UNION: We're importing sizable amount of the food consumed in the United States. And while it's supposed to be produced under the same standards that we have, I don't think anyone watches.
TUCKER: There is nothing new about the idea of agro-terrorism.
(on camera): Two years ago when Tommy Thompson stepped down of Secretary of Health and Human Services, he called agro-terrorism a grave concern for this country. And Kitty, he candidly admitted that he was surprised that the food chain had not been targeted by terrorist groups.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Bill tucker.
Well, each year some 75 million Americans fall ill because of tainted food. As many as 300,000 are hospitalized. Five thousand die. Lou Dobbs mentioned these numbers to the co-chair of the Congressional Food Safety Caucus this week, calling them outrageous.
And this was her response.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. ROSA DELAURO, (D) CONNECTICUT): Well, you stated it well. That's -- I mean, those are the facts and there's a very serious, serious problem here and it's, in my view, a collapse of the food safety system.
Watch -- look what happened with the Taco Bell effort. The things are so bad that you've got an industry that is asking for government regulation. I mean, that is unprecedented. And what we need to do and what I want to do in being able to take the chairmanship of this subcommittee in January...
DOBBS: Right.
DELAURO: ... is to have a hearing and to focus in on food safety. Let's ask the question has self-regulation gone too far? Are there enough inspectors? Resources? Are there enough resources? Are there management shortfalls? We have to examine this at the federal, state, and the local level.
And what we need to do is we need to -- what I want to do is to bring back and restore the oversight capacity of the federal agencies that deal with food safety.
DOBBS: Right.
DELAURO: We are charged with protecting public health, and today, we are not doing the job that we have been charged to do.
DOBBS: The Food and Drug Administration, as you well know, has about 2,000 inspectors to look at about 80 percent of our total food supply in this country.
DELAURO: That's right.
DOBBS: We continue to import more and more and more of our food, which is not being inspected. What are we going to be able to do in the short term? Because this is becoming -- we're starting to look like a third-world nation in my opinion.
DELAURO: Well, we've got to identify whether the problem is resources or management and some of the things that -- you know, that I have laid out. You're right. Only about one percent of imported food is inspected today.
And the fact is, is that legislation that I have introduced, that Senator Durbin has introduced, says let's look at a single food safety agency. Lou, you have 12 different agencies that are looking at food safety. Let me just give you this example, because of the Taco Bell.
DOBBS: Let me just say one thing.
DELAURO: Sure.
DOBBS: You're talking about the Safe Food Act which you introduced a year-and-a-half ago.
DELAURO: That's right. That's right. And we haven't been able to, you know, raise the support level. I'm hoping that these kinds of outbreaks will do that. But take a look. It's now maybe lettuce or cheese that's caused the Taco Bell problem. Lettuce is regulated by FDA, and cheese by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. This is crazy.
DOBBS: Yes.
DELAURO: Let's look at regularized inspections. Let's look at tracing back the...
DOBBS: You mean actually have the United States government actually do something in the national interests and for the common good? All right. Congresswoman, as always, good to talk with you.
DELAURO: Good to talk to you.
DOBBS: Thank you. We look forward to your hearings come January, and congratulations on your appointment.
DELAURO: Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Happy holidays.
DOBBS: Happy holidays to you, and merry Christmas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Here's an interesting clarification on those numbers. Although the recent e. coli outbreaks have drawn attention to food- born illnesses, health officials say the number -- overall number of cases is in decline. In the last ten years, illnesses were down for virtually every food-born germ, including e. coli. But during that same period, however, the number of cases of food-born illnesses related to produce has more than doubled. Coming up, we'll be joined by three of the country's sharpest political minds.
And Americans across the country are furious after a rabbi threatens to sue an airport over its Christmas trees. Lou sits down with CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to discuss who went too far in this Christmas controversy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Joining me now Democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf, "New York Daily News" columnist Errol Lewis and "Washington Times" columnist Diana West.
Thanks very much for being here.
Let's start with pith Iraq. A big week for this debate, and especially with the Pentagon meetings. Some of the top generals said that they support -- that the concept that U.S. troops should be changed from combating insurgents to actually supporting Iraqi troops. When the president came out of that meeting he had this to say:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a lot of consul consultations taking place. And as I announced yesterday, I will be delivering my plans after a long deliberation, after steady deliberation. I'm not going to be rushed into making a difficult decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now this "I'm not going to be rushed," some might see that as absolute, steely determination to take the time to make the right decision. Others say this shows extreme indecision.
Which way to do you think?
DIANA WEST, "WASHINGTON TIMES": I think it shows extreme indecision and I can only hope that in this lull, which does seem kind of ridiculous at this point, that it may occur to the president that what we have going here, when we have a situation where you have Shiite-backed -- Iranian-backed Shiites fighting Saudi-backed Sunnis in Iraq, that that actually is a good thing for American forces because when that is going on, they are not preparing terrorism attacks against New York, London or Tel Aviv. And this is an interesting concept, but it's something that really should go on to the table here.
PILGRIM: It's sort of in their backyard, not ours, though, which is -- it's not morally supportable, is it, Errol?
ERROL LEWIS, "THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, I would also say it's really not, from a national security standpoint, in the interest of the United States to have a regional ethnic and religious conflict going on. I don't think it's a viable end strategy. WEST: Maybe not an end strategy, but it is not something we want to get American forces in between. I mean, this is a sectarian struggle going on for over a thousand years.
LEWIS: Well, if what you're calling for is withdrawal...
WEST: I'm calling for reassessment of where American interests lie. American interests -- for example, we have -- right now, we have the Iraq Study Group sort of doves versus the more troops hawks. And if you think about what the best-case scenario would be with the more troops hawks, you end up stabilizing a natural ally of Iran, a Shiite- dominated government that already has declared itself quite happy about Hezbollah, anti-American as it can be. Is that really a victory that we want? Is that a helpful thing?
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The real players that have yet to be heard from in a very public way are the Saudis. And they're going to tell that president. And that's who he's going to be deliberating with. We have real interests there. We have real oil. We have a real relationship there. They're under pressure. They don't want this spilling into their borders. And frankly, most of those regimes see this spilling into borders. They don't want it in the region.
WEST: But the Saudis are already supporting Sunnis in Iraq, according to reports.
SHEINKOPF: Well, the question is where do we draw down? Do we draw down with you friends, the Saudis?
WEST: Are they our friends?
SHEINKOPF: When it counts they are, OK? We need their oil.
WEST: We need their oil.
SHEINKOPF: This is very basic.
PILGRIM: Let me talk about troop levels, because that was the other big issue. And that's the sort of kitchen table issue in this country. And top Army general warned that the U.S. forces will break without thousands more troops. Let's listen to what General Peter Schoomaker said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. PETER SCHOOMAKER, U.S. ARMY: Over last five years the sustained strategic demand for deployed combat brigades and other supporting units is placing a strain on the Army's all-volunteer force, now being tested for the first time in an extended period of conflict. The dwell time between deployments for active brigade combat change is less than one. At this pace, without recurrent access to reserve components for remobilization, we will break the active component.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PILGRIM: Now this is a disturbing statement, because we were supposedly able to sustain a conflict in several theaters, up to three, I understood. Now it looks like we can't do what we're doing at the moment.
How do you react to these comments?
WEST: Well, I've read a lot of stories about what the general said. One thing that struck me, was that there was never a mention, even a concept of possibly needing a draft. I think that's an honest consideration.
And on the other hand, the general said something I wish he'd gone further on as well, which had to do with -- he said we should not just surge troop levels in Iraq without a definite purpose.
And again, we're not going toward a purpose that's been defined for Americans. Again, that the Iranian-allied government that I'm describing is the best case scenario that you can get with more troops.
LEWIS: The fundamental error here is to see this as an almost exclusively military problem that can be fixed with more or fewer troops. And it's simply not true.
In his consultations I'm hoping the president will look at something that's making rounds on the Internet, a 1922 letter from then-Secretary of War Winston Churchill to Lloyd George describing Iraq, which he was assigned to pacify, as an ungrateful volcano that the Brits were sitting on top of. He was counseling that they either get the locals to make peace, form a political solution, or threaten pull out, exactly the same question we're dealing with now, not a military question.
PILGRIM: Hank?
SHEINKOPF: It's a mess. There are four dominant powers in the region since the beginning of time. They're going to go at each other's throats in different matter. Should we be in the middle of that? The answer is no. Should we be protecting what we need in oil? The answer is yes. Should we be helping the Wahabi-based Saudi government, which has been helpful in exporting terrorism throughout the world, the answer's probably no, but what choice do we have? We need the bases.
And the real bottom line here is a simple one. The enemies of democracy and freedom are now laughing hysterically because what they see is a U.S. government that cannot live up to its military commitments to enforce -- to use its power to enforce moral authority. That is the danger to the world.
WEST: I think that another danger is we're getting tunnel vision on Iraq. Meanwhile, we have a much bigger problem in Iran. And again, this is something that is not being talked about by our leaders in any meaningful way.
PILGRIM: As we say, this is a regional issue at this point. It's not just one country.
We're out of time. We can't solve it. Hope the president considers it carefully over the holiday.
And thanks very much for being with us today.
Still ahead, Lou shares some of his political thoughts on why political correctness should not be a part of Christmas. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: You may have heard this week about the rabbi who took on the Seattle-Tacoma Airport. The issue: Christmas trees. Well, the rabbi demand that airport authorities add a Jewish Menorah to the holiday display and he threatened a lawsuit. The airport's response? They took down all the Christmas trees. Lou Dobbs talked to CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin about the man he dubbed Rabbi Grinch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's hard to imagine how everyone could have been more wrong than they were in this situation. First of all, the rabbi had no right to say the Christmas trees should go. The Christmas trees should stay. He didn't say that. But he had no right to insist on a Menorah...
DOBBS: A religious symbol.
TOOBIN: Well, it's a religious symbol, but it's not so religious that it can't appear in public. The courts have regularly said that Christmas trees and Menorahs are OK.
DOBBS: But let's talk where we are in this country right. Some -- a rabbi walks in and tells somebody, SEA-TAC they're going to sue because they're not putting up a Menorah. The fact is there is no reason for the airport to take down the Christmas tree whatsoever in law, is there?
TOOBIN: Not at all. In fact, the Supreme Court has held since 1984 the famous reindeer rule, that if a symbol of Christmas is mostly secular, like a reindeer or a Christmas tree or Santa Claus, that is not a violation of separation of church and state. So the rabbi had no right to ask that the Christmas tree be...
DOBBS: It makes you wonder why SEA-TAC Airport -- it has a general counsel, why...
TOOBIN: Why did they cave?
DOBBS: ... she know about the doggone reindeer rule. And why did they cave? And the people in Seattle and Tacoma out ought to be furious with the airport.
TOOBIN: Of course they should be. Now... DOBBS: And this the rabbi ought to be talked to because he is way over his feet.
TOOBIN: But you know what might be nice? Is that -- the airport said, you know what? We'll put up a Menorah. Lots of communities have both.
DOBBS: But their point in this Christmas tree is not a religious symbol. It's in point of fact, become a commercial symbol.
TOOBIN: Exactly.
DOBBS: And the rabbi is messing with hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue for this economy.
TOOBIN: That's a little more responsibility on the rabbi took on, I think. But it's just...
DOBBS: As John Stewart would put it, this is a Christmas tree- based economy.
TOOBIN: It is indeed.
DOBBS: I love having the opportunity to steal from John Stewart, anyway.
So, people in Seattle, put up your Christmas tree, tell the rabbi to settle down. Maybe you guys can talk about some other symbols if you want to use them. But at least enjoy the season.
TOOBIN: It's a little common sense. Everybody should accommodate each other...
DOBBS: I don't care about that, frankly.
TOOBIN: I do.
DOBBS: Everybody, use a little common sense.
TOBIN: Exactly. But the idea is, everybody can put up their own symbols and nobody fights.
DOBBS: Yes, well..
TOOBIN: That's what the first amendment is about, is reducing tensions, not adding to them.
DOBBS: Ah. You going to call the rabbi or do you want me to?
TOOBIN: You call him, Lou.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Just for the record, after getting cartons of hate mail about his war on Christmas, the rabbi dropped his lawsuit, saying he never meant that the trees should be taken down. And the Seattle- Tacoma airport is once again fully festooned and bringing holiday cheer.
Thanks for being with us tonight.
For all of here, good night from New York.
"THIS WEEK AT WAR" with John Roberts Starts right now.
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