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Lou Dobbs This Week
Bush Finalizes New Iraq Strategy, Catholic Church Opposes Swift & Co. Immigration Raids, Home Depot CEO Nets $210 Million Compensation Package
Aired January 07, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(NEWS BREAK)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. President Bush will announce his new strategy for the war in Iraq over the next few days. President Bush may send tens of thousands more of our troops to Iraq. We'll have a live report from the White House.
And the Democrats taking control of the House of Representatives and the Senate for the first time in more than a decade. But can the Democrats push their ambitious agenda through Congress? We'll have that special report, and a great deal more straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK. News, debate and opinion. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. President Bush tonight is making final preparations for what will be a prime time speech to the nation on the conduct of the war in Iraq. There is speculation that the president in announcing that new strategy will call for an additional 40,000 troops to be deployed. Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the president is eager to get his new team in place before he announces his new Iraq strategy, the White House announced an overhaul of top commanders at the Pentagon. At State Department, news of new ambassadors to Iraq and the United Nations and a switch at the highest level of intelligence, national intelligence director John Negroponte going to the State Department while former NSA director mike McConnell nominated by Mr. Bush to take Negroponte's job.
Sources say that the president is expected to approve of sending at least 20,000 U.S. troops to Iraq as part of his new plan. But White House officials insist that he has not signed off on anything yet and he's still in consultation mode. It is expected the president will address the American people with his new Iraq plan either Wednesday or Thursday. Lou?
DOBBS: Suzanne Malveaux reporting.
The president's new strategy for the war in Iraq could be the first test of the so-called new spirit of bipartisanship on Capitol Hill. The new speaker of the House, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi says she opposes any surge of American troops in Iraq. Congresswoman Pelosi became the nation's first woman speaker of the House when the Democrats took control of Congress.
Andrea Koppel reports now from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the first woman speaker in our history, the gentle lady from California, Nancy Pelosi.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a day for the history books.
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) HOUSE SPEAKER: For our daughters and granddaughters, today we have broken the marble ceiling!
KOPPEL: And surrounded by her grandchildren, with other political pioneers looking on, and a couple of celebrities looking down, Speaker Nancy Pelosi became the highest ranking elected woman in U.S. history. Now, just two heartbeats from the presidency. And she wasted no time putting Mr. Bush on notice on Iraq.
PELOSI: The election of 2006 was a call to change. Nowhere were the American people more clear about the need for a new direction than in the war in Iraq.
KOPPEL: On the other side of the capitol, the new Senate majority leader made clear, Democrats expected the president's new plan on Iraq, to bring U.S. troops home. But he didn't say when.
SEN. HARRY REID, (D) MAJORITY LEADER: Remove our troops from this civil war.
PELOSI: The House will come to order!
KOPPEL: The images of power gained and power lost were hard to miss. The longest serving Republican speaker, Dennis Hastert, seemed almost hidden amidst a sea of members.
With her 31-seat majority, Speaker Pelosi got down to business right away, topping her to-do list, passing how rules as soon as this week, banning members from receiving gifts and free travel from lobbyists. But first, a conference call with the president.
PELOSI: We're calling to give you the good news that this Congress is now fully sworn in and ready to work with you.
GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, I'm ready to work with you all. I know it was a tremendous moment for you personally and I congratulate you.
KOPPEL (on camera): The real legislative business won't get under way until early next week, that's when Democrats hoped to pass their 100 hours agenda including everything from boosting the minimum wage to enacting all of the 9/11 commission recommendations and all of this before the president's State of the Union address later this month. Andrea Koppel, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Democrats are promising to implement a bold agenda over their first 100 hours. However, there are some critically important issues that Democrats have left unattended. In that list of priorities, Bill Schneider reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There are a lot of things on the House Democrats' agenda --
PELOSI: Passing the 9/11 commission recommendations, raising the minimum wage, making college more affordable, advancing stem cell research.
SCHNEIDER: What about the Bush administration's two signature policies? Tax cuts and the war in Iraq. You can argue Iraq was the issue that brought Democrats to power. Don't they have a mandate to do something about it?
REID: Iraq is where it is. The country's is where it is. Iraq is an issue we all need to work on and we will work on that.
SCHENIDER: The problem is there's not a lot Congress can do about an ongoing military policy.
SEN. CARL LEVIN, (D) MI: No one's going to cut off funding to the troops that I know of.
SCHNEIDER: But they can make sure the cost of the war is evident. Democrats say they will no longer treat military spending in Iraq as emergency spending outside the regular budget.
Senate Democratic committee chairmen will hold hearings to look into what went wrong in Iraq, and what to do next.
LEVIN: We have to examine whatever the president is going to propose.
SCHNEIDER: President Bush is daring Democrats to challenge his tax cuts.
BUSH: We kept taxes low.
SCHNEIDER: You want to roll back my tax cuts? President Bush is saying. Go ahead, make my day. House Democrats are dealing with taxes obliquely by proposing a new so-called pay-go rule. That means new spending must be paid for by cutting spending on other programs, or by raising taxes.
PELOSI: No new deficit spending, that will be a part of the rules of the House.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans may not fall for it.
THOMAS MANN, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Most Republicans still believe in tax cuts and they want to exempt tax cutting from any so- called pay-go rule, only apply it to spending.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (on camera): Some other big ticket items Democrats are not talking about right now -- health care reform, Social Security reform, Medicare reform. Why not? Too big, too difficult, too controversial. They want to concentrate on things they can actually get done. Lou?
DOBBS: Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: The Democrats, of course, are optimistic they can deliver on all their promises but the new political landscape in Washington doesn't make it easy for the new Democratic leaders in the House and Senate to achieve those goals. Candy Crowley reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DENNIS HASTERT, (D) IL: And I urge my colleagues ...
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's out, she's in.
FORMER SENATOR BILL FRIST: The next vote will be ...
CROWLEY: He's gone, he's stepping up. So it will look different, and, boy, they talk a good game about being different.
REP. RAHM EMANUEL, (D) IL: And there's going to be a new direction that we're going to take this country from top to bottom.
CROWLEY: All righty, then. With all but a hearty "Heigh-ho, Silver" Democrats are ascending to majority status with a promise to be nice to Republicans and get stuff done.
STU ROTHENBERG, ROTHENBERG POLITICAL REPORT: If we're talking about big stuff, fundamental reform for Social Security or tax policy, that seems very unlikely. At the margins, sure, there are a couple popular Democratic items. But really changing our government and changing policy, that seems like a very hard pull to me.
CROWLEY: Some of the fault lies not in themselves but in the setup. A Republican White House, a Democratic House majority without enough votes to override a veto, a bare majority of Democrats in the Senate a whole bunch of lawmakers running for president and not much time.
JACKIE KOSZCZUK, "CONGRESSIONAL QUARTERLY": By the time we hit the summer season, the presidential hopefuls and there are at last a half a dozen of those in the Senate, that campaign will be kicking up in earnest. And anything that might be able to move legislatively is going to be sort of frozen out by the politics of 2008. CROWLEY: Some things probably will fly. Increasing the federal minimum wage, low, interest rates on student loans, some 9/11 recommendations look good to go and woe be to the politician who stands in the way of ethics reform. But Social Security and Medicare reform or big change in health care, not happening.
AMY WALTER, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: There's going to be a whole lot of jockeying, a whole lot of moving around the chairs. But whether anything substantive comes forward I think is doubtful.
PELOSI: Because of you, we are making history.
CROWLEY: Incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is kicking off three days of celebration, taking advantage of the spotlight Democrats have craved for 12 years.
BUSH: Thank you all. We just finished our first Cabinet meeting ...
CROWLEY: He can't rain on their parade but the president is not without a microphone.
BUSH: We need to reform Social Security and Medicare.
CROWLEY: Yeah, well, good luck with that been. But specifics were not the theme of the president's Rose Garden appearance or his editorial in the "Wall Street Journal."
WALTER: He basically says, hey, I'm happy to work with Democrats. If you agree with men on a lot of the issues we can work together just fine, really trying to push back on Democrats and say don't expect me to be the punching bag for the next two years.
CROWLEY: Let the jockeying begin, and brace yourself for gridlock. Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Still to come -- hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens could become eligible for benefits that hard-working Americans have taken years to earn. How about Social Security? We'll have that special report.
Also the Catholic Church again trying to stop any effort to enforce immigration laws or to secure our borders. We'll have that outrageous story and our middle class struggling to keep up. Why in the world is corporate America giving its CEOs generous pay deals and huge severance packages for failure? We'll have that special report and a great deal more still ahead here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Immigration and customs officials under fire this week, they are facing new lawsuits and an attack from the Catholic church. As a result of last month's raids that netted over a thousand illegal aliens working at strip meat packing plants in six states. The outrage over the fact that a federal agency, actually for a change and so rarely, is actually enforcing U.S. immigration law. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even before these raids were carried out they were mired in legal challenge. Swift & Company filing request for a temporary restraining order to stop the raids from taking place. Since the raids, four additional lawsuits representing 256 people have been filed. Not all of the complaints are of the legal kind. The Minnesota Catholic Conference led by a group of seven bishops is angry about the raids saying they heartlessly divided families and they are calling for an end to any enforcement action.
BISHOP BERNARD HARRINGTON, MINN. CATHOLIC CONFERENCE: We're saying, let the politicians solve the lieu, that's their responsibility. But they aren't even doing that. They have to stand up and say, the system is broken, now we must address the dignity of human beings, we must address the fact that we have 12 million people living in our country, we can't split up families by sending some back. There has to be a process that allows these things to become legalized.
TUCKER: Bishop Harrington's diocese includes the town of Worthington, Minnesota. Fifteen of the people arrested in Worthington have been charged with aggravated identity theft. A spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement says the raids were law enforcement actions and nothing more. Quote, "Immigration and Customs Enforcement targets its efforts at those breaking the law. If you're breaking the law, you shouldn't be surprised that you might be caught in an enforcement action."
Advocates for enforcement of immigration law find it disturbing that the ICE action is being met with protest over the fact that an agency is fulfilling its responsibility under the law.
JOHN KEELEY, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: If the men and women in ICE are going to get beat up politically here or even have their careers in jeopardy, for number one enforcing the law and number two, targeting felonies, perpetrated against U.S. citizens I don't think we have much hope for the U.S. government enforcing immigration laws.
TUCKER: In his view the consequences are dire particularly with an administration that has never supported immigration enforcement.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (on camera): ICE has won all of the challenges and complaints against it except for one, that's where they complain he's fluent only in the Mayan tongue Quequechua (ph) and ICE failed to provide its notice to appear to him in that language. Lou, amazingly in that complaint the plaintiff does admit he is an illegal alien.
DOBBS: He is an illegal alien and really is only fluent in the Mayan language?
TUCKER: He really and truly is and that's not all that common. He speaks Quequechua and reads Quequechua, he only speaks Spanish.
DOBBS: Speaks Spanish. That gets to be a bit of a problem. What are they suggesting, that all ICE agents have to go, what is it, "Apoplectico" (ph) or whatever the new Mel Gibson movie is.
TUCKER: Exactly.
DOBBS: That's amazing. Is ICE just going to give in on this one?
TUCKER: Off the record ICE said to me this is kind of an I got you. We didn't give it to him in Quequechua so he gets it.
DOBBS: Man. Perhaps somebody should have spoken to him in plain old Spanish, but doesn't work that way, I guess.
TUCKER: No.
DOBBS: But you've got to give ICE credit, they're starting to do a few things, not a lot, but a few and that's a lot more than done in the previous years. Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
An agreement with Mexico, awaiting President Bush's signature. It would put benefits from our overburdened Social Security system in the hands of at least hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens living in the United States, perhaps millions. Christine Romans reports from what could only be the United States of America.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An illegal alien working with a fraudulent Social Security number has been paying into Social Security. Once that worker gains legal status, he can claim those Social Security credits and tap into Social Security benefits.
The Bush administration wants Mexico's citizens working in this country to qualify for Social Security payments and in some cases, illegal aliens will benefit, too. The U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Act will help workers qualify even sooner, in as little as 18 months.
SHANNON BENTON, TREA SENIOR CITIZENS LEAGUE: As far as how much they have to work in the United States to eliminate the dual taxation and claim benefits here in the U.S. They would only have to work six credits.
ROMANS: That's 18 months. An American must work 40 credits or 10 years to qualify for Social Security. Benton represents 1.2 million senior citizens who filed a Freedom of Information request to get a look at agreement which awaits the president's signature. Critics say it's a costly give away at a time when Social Security's solvency is in doubt. But the Social Security Administration estimates the agreement will cost $105 million a year for the first five years. And will have, quote, "a negligible long-range effect on the Social Security trust fund."
But there have been concerns for years about this. The Government Accountability Office in 2003 warned, quote, "The proposed agreement will likely increase the number of unauthorized Mexican workers and family members eligible for Social Security benefits. Christine Romans, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The U.S. Border Patrol confirms that one of its observation posts on the Arizona-Mexico border was approached Wednesday night by unknown gunmen and overrun. The post is manned by National Guard troops. The Border Patrol says no shots were fired. No guardsmen were wounded in the incident. And that those overrunning gunmen did go back into Mexico.
The Border Patrol actually said they fled, but there is no reason to conjecture why they would flee retreating national guardsmen. The area where that incident took places a known drug-smuggling corridor. And by the way the National Guard, which is there to bolster the Border Patrol, says it's a matter of policy. Its job is to retreat in the face of approaching gunmen.
State government officials in Mexico are proposing a new plan to help illegal aliens cross into this country. Those officials may give those illegal aliens GPS locators. Supporters of the idea and I'm sure there are many, say locators would help illegal aliens call for help should they become lost in their trek across the U.S.-Mexico border.
What the supporters aren't saying is that those locators could also help illegal aliens evade U.S. Border Patrol agents and National Guard troops when they do remain on their posts.
And in a glaring example of the corruption and lawlessness now rampant in Mexico, the city of Tijuana's entire police force, Thursday, was disarmed and all of its patrols were stopped. Security for the border city of 1.5 million was provided by a handful of state and federal police.
Mexican federal officials are trying to crack down on corruption in the Tijuana Police Department, and they are expected to begin testing police weapons to determine whether any of those weapons, more than 2,000 of them, have been involved in recent drug-related murders and there have been a lot of them.
Up next two U.S. Border Patrol agents convicted of shooting a Mexican drug smuggler are preparing to report to prison while the smuggler's immunity from prosecution keeps him from prison. We'll be talking with two U.S. congressmen who are trying to right this terrible wrong.
And a big payoff to a departing CEO as middle class workers throughout the country continue to struggle just to keep up. We'll have that special report on a compensation system gone mad.
And a communist Chinese company breaking U.S. law forming an energy alliance with Iran, one of the leading state sponsors of terrorism. So why that is very same Chinese company being allowed to do what American companies cannot do and still be listed on the New York stock Exchange? We'll have answers and a lot more coming right up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A stunning example this week of the widening divide between wealthy corporate elites and their workers. The CEO of Home Depot, Bob Nardelli, leaving his job and taking away $210 million, despite the fact he's considered even by corporate American standards, an abject failure. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Home Depot began the year by cleaning house. CEO Robert Nardelli parted weighed under a mutual agreement, the chief executive has been under fire from shareholders. The stock price is now lower than the day Nardelli walked in the door, despite the fact he collected more than $150 million in 6 years with an annual bonus of $3 million. Look a new breed of CEOs, Nardelli's compensation package was guaranteed and includes a platinum parachute of another $210 million.
RICHARD FERLAUTO, AFSCME: He came in with a huge package and now he is leaving with an even bigger package guaranteed and in between shareholder get very little return.
SYLVESTER: Congressman Barney Frank heads the House Financial Services Committee, he is pushing for legislation that would allow stockholders to vote on corporate compensation packages like Robert Nardelli's.
REP. BARNEY FRANK, (D) MA: It is excessive, particularly given the fact they were firing him.
SYLVESTER: Other CEOs that have had a lucrative exit include Pfizer's former CEO Hank McKennel. He received $200 million. Former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Reins will receive a $1.5 million every year for life plus stocks. He was forced out for irregular company accounting.
Critics say these jumbo compensation packages are downright obscene when stacked against the wages the average employee.
BOB WOODHOUSE, AMERICANS UNITED: In the first two hours and two minutes the first workday of the year the CEOs at large companies in America, those with $1 billion in revenue or more will have already made more than a minimum wage worker will make for an entire year.
SYLVESTER: Shareholder groups are also pushing for more transparency. Many executive compensation packages are kept a secret. For example, Home Depot has named a new CEO, but will not reveal his take home pay.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (on camera): Runaway executive pay is an issue that should receive more attention on Capitol Hill, now that Democrats are in control, they are concerned not only because of the disparity between the CEOs at the top and the average worker, but also because of the impact it has on workers' pensions. Lou?
DOBBS: Lisa Sylvester reporting from Washington.
Up next, a communist Chinese company breaking U.S. laws forming an energy alliance with Iran one of the chief sponsors, state sponsor of terrorism around the world. So why is the company still enjoying benefits of a listing on the New York Stock Exchange? We'll have that special report.
Time running out for two U.S. Border Patrol agents sentenced to prison for doing their jobs. I'll be talking to two U.S. congressmen who are fighting for their freedom, trying to right those wrongs.
And our political roundtable discusses and assesses whether the new Democratic Congress will actually get anything done and will be able, will it, to do anything for our struggling middle class. We can hope. We'll have their views and a lot more straight ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK, news, debate and opinion. Here again, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: The U.S. government bars American companies from doing business with Iran. At the same time, it's opening America capital markets to foreign companies that are ignoring U.S. strictures and doing business with Iran, that is not only a violation of American law, it is also apparently that this administration is prepared to tolerate. Christine Romans has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): The United States trying to isolate this man -- the Chinese doing business with him. State-owned Chinese oil company CNOOC is pledging $16 billion to develop Iranian natural gas fields, flouting America policy and law, undermining Washington's stated goal.
VICTOR COMRAS, FORMER STATE DEPARTMETN OFFICIAL: Cut off the extra flow of funds that were generated by the Iran oil and gas sector so we can limit their ability to fund terrorism and to develop weapons of mass destruction.
ROMANS: As Iran defiantly pursues its nuclear program the State Department says, quote, "We think this is a particularly bad time to be initiating major new commercial deals with Iran. We have raised our concerns about this reported deal with the company and the Chinese authorities."
The Iran-Libya Sanctions Act forbids foreign companies that invest in Iran's energy sector from tapping American capital markets. CNOOC is listened on the New York Stock Exchange, one of 33 Chinese companies, many of which retain ownership by or close ties with the communist government.
REP. ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, (R) INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Just because they're on the stoke exchange, here in the United States, just because they have the veneer of being just like any old good old fashioned American company, they are not.
ROMANS: The New York Stock Exchange says since no action has been taken against CNOOC, quote, "We don't comment on hypotheticals."
But as the Treasury Department aggressively tries to isolate Iran foreign companies using American capital markets are injecting funds into a country with a long list of dangerous ambitions.
FRANK GAFFNEY, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: Like, sponsor terrorism in Iraq, destabilizing that country, taking over Lebanon, building nuclear weapons, buying ballistic missiles and the like.
ROMANS: C-nouk in Beijing did not answer e-mails seeking comment.
(on camera): By law this proposed C-nouk deal requires the president to launch an investigation to determine what sanctions apply. Congress is also looking into the matter. It's on the top of the agenda for the House Foreign Relations Committee. Christine Romans, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: For more on communist China's moves to extend its geopolitical and economic influence around the world I talked with Congressman Tom Lantos, he is the new chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. And the congressman, well I asked him what he's going to do about China's actions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. TOM LANTOS, (D) CA: We have a law on the books and it's up to the administration to fully enforce it. Next week I am calling Secretary Rice to get an assurance from her that sanctions will be imposed on China if China goes ahead with its plan to put $16 billion into Iran, which obviously will be used, least in part, to develop nuclear weapons.
The administration has a legal obligation to place sanctions on Iran. This has not been done in the past. And I will insist that it be done and if the answer is unsatisfactory, I will hold early hearings on this subject.
DOBBS: Will you also consider whether or not the administration, as required by law, irrespective of its powers permitted under that law to ultimately waive sanctions? It is required under law to begin an investigation immediately. Will you also be looking into when that investigation began, whether it began at all?
LANTOS: Absolutely. And I will seek assurance from the secretary of state that the sanctions will not be waived. We simply cannot allow China to supply Iran with billions of dollars to be used for the development of nuclear weapons.
DOBBS: As chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Congressman Lantos, one of great voids, some would argue many voids in U.S. policy has been focus in clear strategy in the Western Hemisphere, moving if I may quickly from the Middle East, but Central and South America have been all but ignored in the minds of many, by this government. Are you going to, as well, focus on that issue?
LANTOS: One of our highest priorities will be developments in our own hemisphere. The most serious problem obviously is Venezuela where Hugo Chavez goes out of his way to insult and attack the United States.
DOBBS: Let's turn to the 100-hour priorities of the speaker, Nancy Pelosi, wants a great deal accomplished in quick order. Are you confident that she and the Democrats will be successful in the House and then ultimately in the Senate?
LANTOS: I am convinced that Speaker Pelosi will be totally successful in achieving the goals that she outlined in the House. What will happen in the Senate is a more difficult question. Because the senate is very narrowly divided. And there is always the danger of a presidential veto.
DOBBS: The speaker talked about bipartisanship, the president some would argue about six years late, started talking about bipartisanship with some gusto this week. Do you think that bipartisanship can succeed, that there can be partnership between these two parties and truly develop constructive legislation and resolve many of the problems and issues that are confronting the country?
LANTOS: Lou, I truly do. What is at stake is the fate of the United States, both in terms of military problems, in terms of our prestige, our reputation, we are going through a period where the U.S. prestige is at a low point historically. And my number one task will be to increase global respect for the United States and cooperation of friends and allies.
DOBBS: Tom Lantos, congressman, Democratic congressman, California, 26 years in the House, the only Holocaust survivor serving in the U.S. House and it is our delight to have an opportunity to talk with you. We wish you all of the best.
LANTOS: Thank you, Lou. I appreciate it.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the deadline for two U.S. Border Patrol agents to report to prison now just weeks away. Two U.S. congressmen leading the fight for a presidential pardon and an investigation on the prosecution of this case will be among our guests, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: To U.S. Border Patrol agents who were convicted of shooting a Mexican drug smuggler that they were at the time pursuing are now scheduled to begin serving their prison terms later this month. Their supporters say the agents were simply doing their job. Members of Congress have petitioned President Bush to pardon those agents. I talked with two of those Congressmen, Ted Poe, Republican of Texas, and Congressman Walter Jones, Republican of North Carolina. I asked them just how much support that petition had received.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Yes, sir, we sent a letter back in December initiated by Dana Rohrabacher with 55 members of Congress asking the president to consider a pardon. I myself had sent three letters to the president of the United States and I have been so disappointed in the indifference of this White House and the president, quite frankly.
DOBBS: He hasn't responded? Not one of his senior aides has called you or said...
JONES: Well, we received a "No" response, if I can put it that way, from the Justice Department, that said nothing, quite frankly.
DOBBS: Same story for you, Congressman?
REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: Yes, the letters that we sent to the president -- we didn't get a letter back from the president, the White House. We got a letter back from a junior U.S. attorney in the Justice Department, saying the U.S. Attorney's Office is not going to do anything about the case.
DOBBS: Before we even get to the merits of this, you're both Republicans. You've both been to the White House. You rub shoulders with this president.
You're from Texas, for crying out loud. How long have you known this president?
POE: I've known the president a long time, even before he was governor of the state, 15 years.
DOBBS: So he doesn't really -- how do you explain this?
POE: I don't understand it. It seems to be blissful indifference at the administrative level on this issue of the border agents that were wrongfully convicted in this matter.
DOBBS: You and everyone who watches this broadcast knows, you and Congressman Jones, that the U.S. Justice Department had to go after these two agents. They had to make a conscious decision to do this and they had to do so it seems -- I'll say it straight out. I'd love to hear what you think. But it seems like they had to do so at direct orders of Alberto Gonzalez, the U.S. Attorney General.
JONES: Lou, I will speak quickly because Ted's a former judge in Texas. But I will tell you what I know about it. And I'm learning something new each and every day. I'll be speaking to one of the attorneys for one of these two men tomorrow morning.
I believe sincerely that this whole prosecution of these two men is one of the greatest examples of an injustice that I have ever seen. And somewhere along the way, I think there's a skunk.
DOBBS: You got an idea where that skunk is, Congressman Poe?
POE: The Justice Department had a choice here to prosecute a known drug dealer bringing in a lot of dope into the United States or prosecute two border agents that violated some policy. And they chose the side of the illegal drug smuggler over the border agents. And that seems to be the policy of our federal government, when in doubt, take the side of the illegals. And I think the American public is tired of that policy from the Justice Department.
DOBBS: Well, you know, I won't speak for anybody but myself. But I'm sure tired of what looks like to be sheer accommodation to the government of Mexico, rather than inspired defense of U.S. sovereignty and the men and women who support and defend the borders of this country.
POE: No question about it. These two border agents, one of them nominated for Border Agent of the Year, doing their job. And they're being punished for doing their job. Our government's on the wrong side of this issue. We treated the illegal -- taxpayers treated the illegal. He's suing the federal government for $5 million. He's a known drug smuggler. He was given immunity from prosecution for bringing drugs into the United States.
DOBBS: The Border Patrol Council, the union tells me, Congressman Jones, that this would have been an administrative issue, the firing of their weapons, unless the U.S. Attorney decides to go after this case, give a drug dealer immunity to testify against two agents who everyone said -- is satisfied was transporting drugs, fleeing our federal agents. I mean, I don't understand it.
JONES: Lou, as you know, the prosecutor, the federal prosecutor wanted to charge these and did charge them with attempted murder for shooting an illegal drug smuggler, as you said.
And I hope -- Lou, I want to thank you and CNN for your interest in this issue. And I want to remind the people watching this show that they can call 202-456-1111 and let their outrage speak to the president of the United States and remind him that he is to defend this country from an invasion south of the border, in this case, a drug smuggler.
DOBBS: Well, you know, when you can't even get a Republican president to respond to a fellow Texan, two Republican congressmen, respond to 55 U.S. congressmen...
POE: I called the White House this week asking for even a verbal response and didn't get any response to that.
DOBBS: You know, there's arrogance and there's sorry arrogance. Where does this fit?
POE: Well, we need an answer and we deserve an answer. And I'm not going to categorize which type of arrogance. Lou, I'll let you do that.
DOBBS: I'll leave those choices to the viewers. But it's one or the other and it sure isn't right.
Thank you very much, gentlemen.
Thank you for pursuing this and pursuing a further investigation.
JONES: Thank you, sir.
POE: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Agents Jose Campean and Ignacio Ramos face 11 and 12 years in prison, respectively. They are scheduled to report to prison January 17th.
Up next -- President Bush, changing U.S. strategy in Iraq. Three of the country's brightest political minds join me to assess what we can expect from the president's new approach.
Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Joining me tonight with a lot to discuss on the week, talented panel of analysts, Democratic strategists Hank Sheinkopf, "New York Daily News" columnist Errol Louis, columnist "Washington Times" Diana West. Thank you all for being here.
Hank, let's start with Hank, the first thing that's been delivered, the House Democrats delivered on their rules.
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STATEGIST: Well, the problem the Democrats have is ha they've got to keep delivering to make sure the public that gave them the mandate will be satisfied. A good step in right direction.
DOBBS: The idea of pushing back lobbyists can they get it done? Two billion dollars a year spent on lobbying in Washington, DC. Do these Democrats have the guts to really say, we've had a belly full?
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well I don't know if they'll have a bellyfull. They'll push them back. As we know, money finds its way to where it wants to go in Washington, no matter what are you do, 527 committee, campaign committees back home. There's all kinds of different ways, favorite charities, as we've seen, is another kind of place. So water seeks its level. We'll see where money ends up.
DOBBS: What are your thoughts, Diana? DIANA WEST, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Well, I wish the ethics rules well but in a number of the chairmanships that the Democrats are seating at this point we have ethics-challenged chairman and I'm speaking of whether it's Alan Mollohan, who is going to be chairman of an appropriations panel that oversees the FBI even as he is being investigated by the FBI ...
DOBBS: You don't suppose that would influence the FB, do you?
WEST: It's almost like Dickensian satire or something. John Murtha also on a appropriations panel for defense and his problem. And you have several others also involved in the same kind of problems. You wonder, how are they going to move forward on a truly ethically pure congressional session.
DOBBS: I'm not interested in purity. I'm just -- I'm just begging for a higher standard.
WEST: But don't we have to ask the voters for that? Rules are one thing been but my great sadness is that voters don't kick these people out. Why are those chairmen, for example, still there?
SHEINKOPF: They just did kick an awful lot of people out.
WEST: They did kick a lot of people out.
SHEINKOPF: And the ethics issue -- There is no pure solution to any system where industries and others that regulated are effectively clients of committees within a Congress.
WEST: Citizens also.
SHEINKOPF: These are the right steps. This is the beginning of the right step in the right direction to tell lobbyists, look, the most obvious abuses have to stop. Where you go from there it's within thing. But you've first got to start with the obvious abuses, put it into stone and make it work. That's what the Democrats are doing.
WEST: Yeah.
DOBBS: And President Bush set to announce in the next few days a new strategy for the war in Iraq are you hopeful?
LOUIS: I'm not particularly hopeful. The -- any strategy that has any chance of succeeding has to be clear, it has to be specific and it has to be possible. And every time I hear the president say victory, victory, victory I know two or three of those are just not going to be met. He's got a viable strategy, he's got the right commanders, Petraeus is a very smart guy who has done several tours in country. He's the principal ...
DOBBS: I think we have to give this president credit for something, finally, after nearly four years, he said, generals are responsible for the conduct of this war and you're a bunch of abject failures.
WEST: In a way.
DOBBS: In a way? These guys blew it. We've got more than 3,000 people dead and over 20,000 wounded without having success.
LOUIS: But here's the thing, Petraeus was coming in, he was -- his last big assignment was to ...
DOBBS: Training.
LOUIS: Not just training but the army counterinsurgency manual which in our open society you can get on the Web and read through the 282 pages. But it talks about what a political goals, it's not just tactical stuff about how do you set up an ambush. He's talking about how to win hearts and minds, how do you get way from the kind of military showdowns that can actually increase the strategy ...
DOBBS: Every time I hear the expression hearts and minds and I hear insurgency and I here there's some sort of political dimension to what the United States military is going to do, you know, I say, bull.
WEST: I'm with you.
DOBBS: If the military can't fight a war, an insurgency and win it without all of this nonsense then we shouldn't be there.
LOUIS: But there's the problem. Somebody's got do it.
DOBBS: Where has Condoleezza Rice been? Where has State Department been? We know the military leadership has failed and the civilian leadership has failed. Where in the world has the State Department been?
WEST: They still haven't reassessed what ...
DOBBS: Reassessed?
WEST: They have not learned lessons.
DOBBS: Do they read the papers, watch television?
WEST: I don't know. I often wonder.
SHEINKOPF: Do they study history, do they study military strategy? Do they understand the region.
WEST: I don't think so.
DOBBS: We're going to be right back, folks. More with on this issue and a great deal more straight ahead. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Well, the last time we were being treated to a different approach here we were hearing analysis from the Pentagon on go big, go long, go away, a long war, short war. What kind of nonsense is emanating from this Pentagon? SHEINKOPF: What they have done is to endanger long term the safety of this nation by failing to prove our military can function in less than optimal conditions. We are the sole super power in the world with an extraordinary moral and military obligation because of it.
DOBBS: It should be pointed out this is a nation 300 million strong with the world's most advanced technology and strongest military taking on an insurgency in a country of 25 million people. People talked about the prestige that we have lost as a result of the failures of intelligence going into the war, the political failures going into the war but what really concerns me now as well is how weak we look in terms of our military leadership because of what it has taken to get to this point in Iraq.
WEST: Our military, these days, is -- has their hands cuffed by politically correct rules of engagement. They are not allowed to fire, they are not allowed to truly clear out city blocks of militias, et cetera.
DOBBS: Any general who would agree to that should be court- martialed, don't you think?
LOUIS: Not necessarily. If you send troops to do which troops are not set to do which is sort of ...
DOBBS: Win hearts and minds.
LOUIS: Meld together a broke society. Let's put it that way.
It's not what soldiers are trained to do. It's not what they're good at. It's not what military commanders are particularly good at.
DOBBS: Let's not just put this on the soldiers. These idiots we have running this government, whether they are career diplomas in the State Department or whether they are political appointees serving in various cabinets in the executive branch, they're not trained for very creative thinking either.
LOUIS: No. In fact, you want to talk about a court-martial. It's not military so you couldn't do it but whoever set up an embassy in Baghdad that had a thousand people, six of whom were fluent in Arabic, that's somebody who probably needs to be retrained or reassigned.
SHEINKOPF: The failure of the intelligence community to perform appropriately. The failure of the diplomatic corps to understand in the post-Soviet era how to function is what this is about and it's a disgrace this great nation is being treated this way.
DOBBS: At the same time as we are discussing Iraq and preparing for the announcement of a new strategy in Iraq, as we talk about a new strategy in Iraq and again credit to this administration and President Bush for changing the generals, and having changed the civilian leadership, way too late in my opinion, but at the same time we're not seeing a policy response from this government on the extension of geopolitical influence, economic influence by communist China throughout the world.
We are seeing no response whatsoever to an increasing movement in this he hemisphere to left wing governments or a response either politically or ideologically or economically to that extension.
WEST: This is not generic insurgency, generic war. This has aspects of Islam and that is politically incorrect to discuss. If that were allowed ...
DOBBS: We're talking about radical Islamist terrorism every day on this broadcast.
WEST: Your program is not in charge though. I'm talking about our government, our military leadership. These are verboten terminology.
SHEINKOPF: You're talking about something more important, and underneath this, the fact that they do not understand the difference and the history of Shia versus Sunni activity and there's now a good body of literature coming out in this country and it's available, while going into this thing and they didn't understand the map tells you they weren't thinking and they're still not. That's the problem here.
WEST: And still don't.
DOBBS: Sylvestre Reyes, the new chairman of the House Intelligence Committee couldn't articulate a distinction between Shia and Sunni.
LOUIS: These things happen. . But when you hear, coming out of the White House, which is supposed to craft the overall strategy for this nation, sort of a fallback on the simplistic campaign slogans of President Bush about freedom is everyone's right and everyone's aspiration and that if we spread democracy around the world that will solve the problem, it's not even close to working in the Middle East. It won't work in Latin America.
DOBBS: Let's go back to Sylvestre Reyes. The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee not being able to make a distinction among Shia and Sunni in relation to al Qaeda. That doesn't just leave you flabbergasted?
He's a good guy but now can you do that?
LOUIS: We're the sole superpower. We're not a great imperial nation. The British spent generations training people ...
DOBBS: How about are we a good high school nation?
LOUIS: The British spend generations training to people go and to oversee Burma and to go oversee India and to make an empire work. There was a doctrine, maybe it didn't work all of the time and at some point they decided to dismantle their empire.
DOBBS: Are you getting nostalgic for British colonialism? LOUIS: I wish people would read what they went through in the 1920s in Iraq. Because we're going through the same problems.
SHEINKOPF: And central Asia before that. In Afghanistan before that.
DOBBS: Hank, Errol, Diana, I wish we had something to conclude with other than British colonialism and some sort of benchmark but we take your point. Let's hope for an exciting, new strategy that will lead to success, however that may be defined. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Thank you for being with us tonight. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. THIS WEEK AT WAR with John Roberts starts now.
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